Super Saiyan 2 Goku Vs Majin Vegeta: Who Would Have Won?
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2023
- What if Goku vs Vegeta wasn't interrupted by Majin Buu? Could Goku defeat Vegeta without using Super Saiyan 3? @LSMMIKE discusses that in: Saiyan 2 Goku Vs Majin Vegeta: Who Would Have Won? #dragonballz #dbz #dragonball #dragonballsuper #dbsuper #dbzkai #buu #anime #manga #goku #vegeta
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I'll say this, it's one thing for Vegeta to be holding NOTHING BACK when fighting Goku because this dude was literally out for blood. However, it is even more impressive for Goku to be holding his own against someone who isn't pulling their punches. Vegeta had several moments where he was literally going to kill Goku (who was already dead) like when he was shoving the Saiyan into a sharp rock to impale him, but Goku was able to pull himself out of those scenarios in order to keep fighting.
We see this in the Cell Tournament too. Goku perfects the Super Saiyan Form, rather than waste the energy transforming into Ascended Saiyan.
SSJ3 is a form that requires too much energy to activate, just like the Ascended Forms. Vegeta in Majin Form was in Perfected Super Saiyan 2, a slight step above Goku's Super Saiyan 2.
If Goku went to SSJ3, then his stamina would deplete faster and he would take more damage. It is better to stay at Super Saiyan 2, then beat Vegeta with technique.
SSJ3 is nothing more than a "Kaioken" technique, or a double edged sword. He can't maintain that form easily.
@@douglascramer1501 That’s a good point. However since Goku was dead fighting Vegeta at that point let’s remember since he’s fighting w a dead body he’s able to handle the SSJ3 form better than when he was alive. This was even stated later on when SSJ3 Goku fought Kid Buu. Even then if he were backed in to a corner and had to go SSJ3 against Majin Vegeta he’d whoop him w ease.
@@vle23 That's true, about his Spirit Body, however, it is also stated that maintaining the SSJ3 Form also shortened his time on Earth. It is definitely a costly form.
@@douglascramer1501 His stamina would deplete much faster, BUT he'd be able to take Vegeta out MUCH quicker. Heck, either he'd one shot Vegeta OR Vegeta would be too shocked at the 4x power boost to even fight back. Remember the WHOLE REASON he went Majin was because he saw SS2 Goku for a brief moment against Yakon. He assumed that the power would be enough to beat Goku, but an SS3 multiplier would make him stop in his tracks. I could see him attack Goku out of pure rage, but Goku knocks him out easily to get him to fight together against Buu or something. Not to mention Goku going SS3 for a BRIEF period of time wouldn't deplete as much energy/time left on earth as he did against Buu because he kept raising his power and Buu did the same. A brief power up to the form to showcase and/or knockout Vegeta wouldn't be THAT detrimental to Goku. Yes, I know he did it briefly for Goten/Trunks and it ate up his remaining time, but during the Majin Vegeta fight he had plenty left to spare.
@@douglascramer1501 Agreed it has more to do with his time on earth being depleted than his actual stamina.
Goku because....... Vegeta can never catch a break.
Toriyama: "Fuck Vegeta, he sucks!!"
But 18 broke Vegeta's arm
In their first fight vegeta won the battle but the z warriors won the war.
@@EckerKyle 😊
That’s a fair point 😂
God himself came down to tell everyone the world is in trouble and Vegeta is just like “Kakorot, this is beneath us, let’s just fight.”
I like in the anime when vegeta says he doesnt care about his family, and goku saysthat hes wrong and doesn't believe him. Just the way goku says it shows his anger well
ya it was a lie cuz vegeta clearly showed he cared about future trunks back in cell saga when he died. also bulma but we never really see that until he fights beerus tho lol.
i like those times when goku legit gets angry. its scary.
That assertiveness, mindfulness and seriousness of veteran Goku has been lost by the bs Super iterations
One of the biggest factors that I don't think was mentioned in this video is the fact that Goku's dead body doesn't burn as much ki as Vegeta's living body. Considering both were even as SS2, I would say that Goku could outlast Vegeta. It kind of reminds me of an exhausted Piccolo fighting 17 who had stamina that never ran out.
I did like your point about the battle lasting so long that Goku would burn through A LOT of ki like he did as a SS3 against Buu which led to his time on earth getting used up very quickly.
I had the same idea with the stamina angle for Vegeta vs Buu. Vegeta was able to do so much damage and multiple killing blows to majin buu that I honestly don't think he was "stronger" in terms of power level but that he just had that overpowered regeneration on his side. It could be though that since he's not really a fighter and just a monster he didn't care that he was being repeatedly blown to bits and made no effort to defend himself. He did effortlessly kill Dabura but i'm not sure where that really puts him relative to Goku and Vegeta considering they also didn't seem too worried about Dabura.
that's true but one big thing going for vegeta is even in a long-drawn out fight like that, Babidi's minions are shown to be INCREDIBLY resiliant. Spopovich outlasted Videl, who was a decently stronger fighter, and even got his neck SNAPPED and quickly recovered from this. He could do this for no other reason than because of Babidi's mind control magic, so it's likely majin Vegeta could be similarly durable and outlast Goku regardless.
@@theking5116 So, we actually have rough power levels for some of the characters in the Buu saga. They're just measured in kili (the energy measuring system used by Babidi and his henchmen) instead of how we normally think of power levels. Yakon, for example, was at a power level of 800 kili. Goku's Super Saiyan power level was measured to be 3,000 kili, which Dabura brushed off, since he claims to be able to beat a fighter of a power level with 4,000 kili. So, Goku and Vegeta as SSJ2 should be around 6,000 kili.
As for Buu, we have to do a little extrapolation. We can see Buu's energy gauge filling in the manga. After Gohan's stolen energy from the tournament is put in, the gauge filled to 150 degrees, or 5/12ths. Assuming Gohan's energy was 4,000 kili (the same as Dabura, considering they fought evenly), this means the total energy needed to release Buu would be 9,600 kili. 1.6 times stronger than Majin Vegeta. Now, we know moves like the Kamehameha, Special Beam Cannon, and Final Flash can all punch well above a character's weight class (doubling, or even tripling in power compared to the user's base power level), so it makes sense why Vegeta was able to seriously damage Buu. That said, there's no question that Buu actually did have more raw power than Vegeta.
The maijin spell gives u unlimited stamina and extra power you buffoon
It’s also worth considering that Babidi’s magic power boost also comes with increases in durability. We saw what it did with Spopovich, allowing him to tank blows that would have normally paralyzed a typical human. Vegetas body did change a little when he was Majin, which I think denotes the magic level durability upgrade.
Whole lotta people did not pay attention to the story I guess. No Goku did not hold back in ss2 and no Goku was not distracted and barely trying. He was giving it his 110% effort to defeat Vegeta. If he went ss3 he wouldn't have had time left on earth to teach anybody the fusion dance and wouldn't even be able to go fight Buu. The first thing Goku says is "im going to use my FULL POWER to end this fight RIGHT AWAY". People need to stop pushing their false narrative of Goku toying around with Vegeta because that is completely made up
Goku did say that, but if you pay attention towards the second half of the fight, you would see that Goku was distracting on the awakening of Buu, Vegeta literally says this before knocking him out. If Buu was out of the way, it would just be skill vs skill.
110%? That's an asspull because if you were paying attention, you would see during the fight, it was made clear by both that they were even.
@ismaeltorres3219 I have no idea what your trying to say, what hell are even talking about in that 2nd part
@@bitterthenu7278 I'm saying that your claim of Goku using 110% is retarded. The dialogue clearly shows that
There wouldn’t be even a Buu to fight had Goku used SSJ3 to stomp Vegeta.
During the fight with Pui Pui, it was clearly stated that whoever is trying to provide Buu with energy had to inflict damage on their opponent to which Vegeta responds to by saying so if you don’t do damage to me and then I kill you then you won’t get any energy and after he does just that we see that Buu didn’t get any energy from that fight.
@ssj4ssbgogeta957 your certainly right about that, its just a dumb buu saga moment. Toriyama just made up ss3 on the spot which just makes the whole arc so stupid
Something I never understood is how buu never runs out of energy. He completely regenerates from nothing and rarely seems tired. While when cell and piccolo regenerated even a limb it clearly took somewhat of a toll on them. The other instance I recall is fat buu getting tired by evil buu and kid buu. Even when super buu who was even with super sayian 3 gotanks didn’t seem to lose energy.
It’s called shinanigans. Basically any villain gets the biggest buff and all heroes get a major nerf. I mean Vegeta once overshadowed Goku and now he can almost never seem to catch up to Goku. Same with Piccolo, Tien Shen Han, Yamaha, Krillin.
Maybe one could make the claim that since Boo is magical, he doesn't run out of energy, or that he just has a butt load of energy?
@@Bluem447 He has to have a limit, which is why he was concealed in the first place. Unless he got weaker from doing nothing for so long.
I think this is literally addressed as just simply magic
@@GeteMachine That's right, i didn't even think about that
Ironic that goku was going all out from the beginning yet he was holding back ssj3. It’s like someone didn’t think of ssj3 until after the fight🤔
many reasons. he didnt truly have time to master ss3. he was still new to the form. which he explains when we finally saw it and he
revealed it to fat buu.
then he stamina drain. time drain on earth also... he was trying to help shin and stop buu from being awaken. had he used that form.
then vegeta was kinda gokus friend and goku knows about saiyan pride so he didnt wanna hurt his feelings. lol. vegeta i think reflects
on this during the fight kid buu. which he finally gives goku his respect he deserves and admits that iconic statement. 😯😁
KAKAROTT IS NUMBER 1!! ............................... but for me its broly. both dbz n dbs. 😆👌
@@ssppeeaarr I was being facetious, toriyama didn’t think of ssj3 til after this and when he confronted buu. For all intents and purposes, ssj2 goku and majin vegeta are equal.
@@ssppeeaarr also DBZ Broly >> DBS Broly
@@ssppeeaarr Exactly, he even told kefla or cauliffa, this form uses too much power, even his red or blue doesn't use that amount of power.
@@karnage2948 Nope, goku would've beat vegeta, they weren't equal, vegeta knew if i fight goku and he stomps me, i will heal and get stronger, vegeta got mad and decided ok he is not going to fight, so let me go fight buu or blow myself up.
I vote Laughingstock Media just keeps growing the beard.
Went back and read and watched the fight again. The manga is different than I remember, I was inserting anime memories into it. But in the manga it really looks like it was gonna be a draw, they really pushed the fact they were dead even. However in the anime Vegeta was definitely gonna win, he had goku on the defensive pretty much the whole fight.
goku even says their ss2 is equal. so it would prob be a draw. had it got on.
lol anime version hyped up majin vegeta tho.
This. The anime hyped up Majin Vegeta for shock value. In the manga it's blatantly clear than they're dead even.
And since Majin Vegeta is a boosted version of SS2 Vegeta, than means in a Battle of pure "normal" SS2 forms, Goku would've won
What are you talking about? They were dead even in the anime too. Goku was just more defensive. And he consistently countered every one of Vegeta’s assaults.
@@azuresaiyan9005 lmao thats the best kind of lie!
goku didnt counter every one of majin vegeta attacks. in fact right in the start of the fight vegeta lands a clean knee and then peoples elbow to goku. the anime make it seem like majin vegeta is stronger in ss2...
@Jack Jacques goku was buffed too. The otherworld body gives him enhanced durability and less ki consumption
I don't know if being able to pierce Buu is a good indication of Majin Vegeta being capable of dealing damage far beyond his power class. Remember that Super Buu was damaged by bullets. Dabura pierced through Fat Buu with his spear and heck I believe Fat Buu was shown getting filled with holes from police firing guns at him a few times in anime scenes where he was going through towns eating entire bakery shops for sweets.
Buy admitted it hurt. So your wrong
not to mention fattbuu against ssj3 goku is way>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stronger then the fattbuu Vegeta fought.
@@robertwilson7259 STRAIGHT FACTS
@@beezelsub damaged/hurt are the same thing
Vegeta is shown to be stronger than Buu at this point. But it doesn't *matter* because magic is total bullshit. Buu's not a threat due to his strength. He's a threat because he does magic while also being pretty strong.
Your consistency and content lately has been 🔥. Keep it up Mike!!!
This streak you have with these videos lately is such a W. I'm loving the content lately!
Loving this new wave of Dragon Ball content!
Loveeee the Yu Yu Hakusho reference! Another great performance from Chris Sabat!
I'm really enjoying this content you've been uploading recently!
A couple video ideas that I would love to see your take on: Gohan vs Vegeta on babidi’s ship before and after majin buffs, and a situation where gohan is the same level of power he was in the cell games, not stronger or weaker
love the consistent content! thank you!
Great video
Best Fight in DBZ
Vegeta must legitimately find Mr Satan to be amusing otherwise I can’t think of why he wouldn’t have killed him after going Majin.
I lean towards Goku. The way Vegeta obtained his power possibly would have caught up with him, Goku being dead gives him more stamina. I don’t think losing time on Earth affected his stamina it just meant he had to return. But most importantly even without these factors I just think Goku would figure out a way to win as he has done in past fights. The instant transmission Kamehameha combo is a huge advantage. I don’t think Vegeta piercing Buu was bc of the technique just Buu’s weird body
SSJ3
@@SuperHns Not even SSJ3. Goku had no strain on his body. If Toriyama really wanted to he could have made Goku use the Kaio-Ken at an insane level.
Except it was causing strain on him. While it is arguable how much it effected him over time, near the end he was exhausted and sweating.
Love these old-school videos, LSM! Here's a possible video idea - Shenron's powers and limitations. It's always seemed plot-holey that he supposedly can't grant a wish beyond his creator's powers (which is why he couldn't slay the Saiyans), yet he keeps reviving people and doing other stuff that Kami and Dende clearly can't do!
Man.. Instead of restoring Goku's energy, all they had to do was use the dragon balls & wish for Majin Buu to be stripped of his regeneration powers.. The fight would've ended instantly & that giant spirit bomb wouldn't have been necessary lol
Dende explains this very well
@@SuperHns In what episode (or chapter)... Of what series?
@@heelspawn8023 most likely that wouldn’t have been allowed because Majin Buu is a magical demon, therefore Buu’s magic is stronger than the magic of the Dragon Balls and wouldn’t let Shenron strip away any of Buu’s powers
Love it. Got an idea for a video mike, "at what point did /what caused the time line to go astray"
Wow if only people read the manga. It pretty much says Vegeta had SS2 before he let Babidi control him but he was just weaker still, so Babidi didnt give Vegeta SS2. He just raised his power to match Goku's max at SS2. I guess the question is how much stronger was Goku to SS2 Teen Gohan then. Because Vegeta pretty much implies he's way stronger than that and Super Perfect Cell but Goku was much stronger than where he thought he was there before babidi.
This.
The anime really messed up the dialogue during the Buu arc, and so a lot of people have many misconceptions about it.
Yes. Fucking thank you. People gotta realise that just cause Vegeta obtained a certain form doesn't mean he'll be completely equivelant to goku. Him having SSJ2 before Majin is definetly true and there is so much dialouge that implies that. His SSJ2 still wasn't equal to Goku so Majin was a little extra boost to close the gap. People really love to bitch Vegeta its so annoying but I blame Toriyama.
Also if akira had created ssj3 earlier in the saga they wouldn’t have made vegeta that weak in ssj2 form where he even needed a boost
@@trojantony195 Vegeta was not weak at all, just a bit weaker than Goku. Remember Goku was much stronger than Vegeta at the end of the Cell saga, and Goku's body didn't age while he was dead, allowing him to go all out during his training for 7 years. If you take all of that in consideration, it's impressive that Vegeta managed to close the gap that much, even though Goku was still ahead.
Love the amount of videos Mike. I hope you are doing well.
your thumbnail reminded me of the funny budokai tenkaichi gif with Goku and Vegeta
So Final Explosion is a cool name and everything, but I has another name that I like even more, and is more fitting, Final Atonement. Love that name
ohhh I’m actually very excited for this one
I figure if Goku "had to" beat Vegeta at all costs he could just instant transmission him to a remote location then teleport away and back with a SSJ3 Kamehameha and kill him easily.
(Assuming Vegeta would fall for it) He could always just teleport Vegeta to Snake way to by some time to beat Buu by himself and have the 1on1 match with Vegeta to settle the score later.
That would be a dumb choice, just by transforming into ssj3 will drain his time limit.
Also meaning if he tried to transform into ssj3 to by time for trunks Goku would of most likely ran out of time, therefore no fusion dance to satisfy super Buu leading to the whole cast death. Gohan would be the only one alive and could be the one to kill him knowing that Goten and trunks died too. Besides I'm pretty sure Vegeta knows of the instant transmission and just like Gohan and Frieza he would find a way to counter
@@trisxart2393Yeah your right. Regardless just teleporting Vegeta away to by time would be the right move anyway and dealing with him later.
I didn't realize just how much even transforming drained his time limit. It's kinda BS if you ask me lol.
Vegeta wouldn't just let him do that. Goku also has to sense another person at the location for him to teleport there.
@@GeteMachine yeah, King Kai.
@@trisxart2393 It was stated by Pui Pui that basically whoever happens to be working with Babidi had to inflict damage on their opponent for the energy to go towards Buu’s revival. So had Goku gone SSJ3 in that fight he could’ve speed blitzed and one shotted Vegeta and even Dabura via IT and the arc would’ve ended right then and there with Buu being stuck in his cocoon at 50% strength.
Hey Mike, I have a really interesting topic that I haven’t seen discussed recently. It’s about the universe 7 time rings. I’m wondering if you can find out what caused some if not all of those rings to appear and deviate from the main timeline.
With zero distractions, I think Goku's skill is just much higher. Vegeta spams ki as a tactic. Keeping the context of the fight intact and Buu just somehow can't be sensed, it'd be a lot closer. Even so, Goku has shown that on the backfoot he can keep up against stronger opponents, even in his first fight with Vegeta. Vegeta at the same disadvantages has always been put to sleep (usually literally). Goku would still outmatch Vegeta.
Cell after Vegeta spans weak ki blasts. " Prince, has that ever worked?" * Breaks Vegeta's spine
Idk about all that vegeta but as kick goku ass and goku wasn’t holding back
@@Blasian_guy not even. Look at the actual fight in the manga and no one was dominating.
Goku would win , Vegeta needed Babadi's power boost just to equal Goku's super sayian 2. Secondly Goku didn't want to fight vegeta , while they had to worry about Majin buu , He didn't want to abandon Gohan and leave him to fight Buu and debaura on his own , Also he knew his time was limited and fighting Vegeta would be a waste of time it wasn't the goal , knowing all that Goku fights vegeta anyway so he could feel better , Goku doesn't tell Vegeta he has super sayian 3 so he could feel better . Goku could have went SSJ 3 knocked out vegeta and then rushed to go help gohan and supreme Kai but he had to protect Vegeta's ego , he didn't wanna hurt his feelings , and that kills me not gonna lie , cause what Buu did to gohan thanks to Vegeta , I just can't with vegeta in this arc bro.
so crazy that Goku was willing to kill shin to fight vegeta
the build up to the fight was so good
Shin was lame, wish Goku killed jim
6:29 So that's where the Tenkaichi intro got that shot from
I'm leaning towards Vegeta, I won't say it's blatantly obvious but you would of to do a lot of research. Vegeta was mainly shown to be durable, those techniques he has can change the game. He's also able to learn techniques fast or recreate them just like how he used the destructo disk, but Goku does as well so ye but anyways I think toriyama was leaning towards Vegeta winning this, they were fighting equal in the manga but in the anime Vegeta was doing more hits on Goku.
Anyone can use the destructo disc though.
This makes absolutely no sense. Goku was always shown to improve faster than Vegeta, that was the whole reason Vegeta accepted the Majin boost, because he knew he was weaker than Goku without it.
Goku and Vegeta are equally durable, so Idk where you're getting Vegeta has an advantage there.
And yes, they both learn moves easily, with Goku actually being the one who quickly picks up moves after seeing them once or twice, while Vegeta normally sticks to his 30 variations of the same energy cannon.
Hell, in DBS manga, Goku even imitated Beerus's Hakai long before Ultra Instinct and Ego were a thing.
@@jackjacques7495 this makes no sense to me, Goku does not improve faster than Vegeta, there equal as there pretty smart fighters. Now in the sense of what he learned from roshi and kami about improving his ki and one with the mind, he was able to master Ssj, given time Vegeta would have aswell. But Vegeta was just blinded to surpass Goku quickly, so he didn't master it. Vegeta is infact more durable and saying "I don't know where you got that from" is kinda stupid seeing the evidence in the fights, Vegeta is so durable that he kept getting back up after a beat down of kid buu, even in his base. Goku was literally shocked seeing him able to keep getting back up which means Goku would have stayed down. Another evidence is against Goku black, after all the beating he suffered, he still got back up, another one is Jiren and the final one is with Ue Vegeta against gas as he kept getting back up as even Maki stated that he looks like a zombie. An equal power level doesn't mean your equal in everything, it depends on your skill, you can have higher durability even with equal power. It's all about what you put your stats in. Majin Vegeta gotten more hits on Goku and was the aggressor in the fight if you rewatch it you will see.
Also Vegeta learned all the techniques even the instant transmission quicker than Goku did on yardrat.
@@GeteMachine it's just a flat ki ball and I know, I was talking about how he did it from only seeing it
Is the thumbnail a colored and drawn version of the budokai tenkaichi 1 intro, where they moved in their heads in almost comedic way?
My theory is Toriyamas editor struck again with ss3 lol. Telling him hey give Goku another transformation, it'll boost sales real quick
I feel for Vegeta, because his utility in the story is essentially to lose: when he was a villain in the early sagas the intention was for Goku to persevere and win against him; while on Namek his malevolent, selfish ambition is contrasted against Goku's composure and kindness and Vegeta clearly is displayed as coming up short. During the Cell Games Vegeta openly admits that, despite all his training, Goku is superior; this seems mysterious to him; he doesn't understand what Goku has done to amass this power, but it wasn't from just training more.
This is explored moreso when Babadi invades and Vegeta accepts the Majin boost: Vegeta even allowed himself to love, as Goku had always done, getting a family of his own, but realizing with frustration that it did not increase his power.
In seems clear to me that Vegeta is enormously powerful, but no, Goku is the higher quality fighter. I only see Vegeta taking this if Goku pulls his punches amidst Vegeta's bloodlust.
I think people here in the comments don't understand SSJ3 very well. To me it's implied that SSJ3 is a bit of a 'mutant' form. The only reason Goku could evolve his super saiyan form to 3 was because he was dead and his dead body has fewer limitations. He was able to push himself to 3 because he didn't have to worry about damaging his physical body. As for Gotenks I firmly believe the only reason they could achieve 3 was because it's a fusion body so more resilient and powerful. No other non fused fighter has achieved super saiyan 3. A lot of people think vegeta can but chooses not to but I don't think that's the case. Super Saiyan 3 is a special transformation that's not really possible under norm circumstances. It's constantly stated how it has the massive stamina drain and how Goku can't maintain it in his physical body. And why the form is more or less useless in every application of its appearance. I know this will make a lot of people butthurt but it makes sense. Super Saiyan 2 is like the perfected super saiyan form. After that it's logical to go to the God Forms with the proper training. But 3 is just a special mutant form only possible with a dead body or a fusion body
love your vids
A great video would be who would win a fight between Super Saiyan 2 kind Gohan vs Majin Vegeta
I've always wanted to know if Cell had absorbed the Trunks that he killed in his timeline before it reverted back to his larval form to go to the past. If he didn't, why didn't he? Would love to hear your prospective on this!
I’m mean he probably drunk him but reverting to his larvae state reversed any power boost he would of gotten
Crazy how much better at fighting they are now technique wise
I've always gone with they're pretty equal in the same forms once Vegeta gets the Majin amp. You could argue about spirit bomb or final explosion or whatever.
They were equal in the same forms. Both Goku and Vegeta confirmed it.
Both also had different advantages with Goku’s dead body allowing him to keep more energy/stamina and Vegeta’s majin mark giving him more durability/resilience.
@@antg2183 Vegeta did NOT confirm that, he literally said the opposite until he got the Majin power up. He said he felt the power of ssj2 goku vs Yakon, and he knew he couldn't compare until he got the majin power up.
Yeah the majin power gave him more resilience, but it also gave a big power up. That's literally why he got it.
@@daymianhogue1634 When I said that Vegeta confirmed that I meant AFTER his power up. Yes it’s common knowledge that Vegeta was weaker than Goku before the Majin power up but afterwards they were equal in the same forms.
@@antg2183 ah when you said "were equal in the same forms" I thought you meant were to imply they were even before the Majin amp. And I was like no lol.
So my bad.
The sad truth is that Goku still had super saiyan 3, regardless of when Akira Toriyama had the idea. However, if Goku is limited to just using super saiyan 2 against Majin Vegeta and not having the threat Majin Buu interrupting, the fight could have easily ended in an actual draw, since Goku and Majin Vegeta were dead even in power and fighting skills.
Vegeta had the power that allowed him to be on par with Goku from the very beginning. As explained by Vegeta he was changing over the years and thus created a dialectic inside himself due to changes not natural for him. Babidi was a chance for him to free his suppressive old self and release any powers, alongside that personality, and bring forth holistically the version of Vegeta we have today. He was going through therapy with Goku as their fight went on and by the end of it came to full realisation.
yeah he even said that, he tried to do what Goku did get a family etc and grown fond of them but it did not increase his power, he actually softened.
Vegeta literally states that he decided to let Babidi put the curse in him because he saw Goku was still stronger than him after all his training.
The Majin curse doesn't "just" free your inhibitions, it's an actual power boost. Vegeta himself realized this after he saw how strong Yamu and Spopobich were, despite having heard they used to be weaker than Mr. Satan.
Hell, it even strengthens your body and gives you some regeneration, as Spopobich (a normal human), was able to readjust his neck after having it twisted 360 degrees. So its delusional to think the Majin powerup doesn't give physical advantages.
SS2 Goku being stronge than SS2 Vegeta was the entire reason why Vegeta decided to swallow his pride and accept a power boost. Him "growing soft" was just an excuse.
It might be interesting to explore What if Goku went SS3 against Vegeta?” I wonder if the ramifications would be more interesting than it first seems.
Even after the Majin boost, SS2 Vegeta was only equal to SS2 Goku. The SS3 is much stronger than the SS2, the gap is even larger than the one between SS1 and SS2.
Remember how much stronger than everyone Gohan was when he transformed into a SS2 during the Cell Saga, to the point where they could hardly see him, and be could one-shot the Cell Jr's that even Vegeta, Trunks and Goku had trouble with?
The difference between SS3 and SS2 would be even greater than that. The fight would be over long before the increased energy consumption was an issue.
I do have a question: was it ever explained when ever someone is given one day from the afterlife, that if they power up, that depletes their time in the world of the living?
Vegeta did a straight seven years of training, and he got extra power from becoming Majin Vegeta. I thought it was said Goku let Vegeta win because he knew of Vegeta's pride.
He didn't actually say he let him win all he did was agreeing with Vegeta that he was holding back ssj3 and Vegeta seen it in other world.
ya i think its cuz goku considered veget a true friend by this time. so he held back. and as for vegeta ya i think he had ss2 already. vegeta aint no weakling and put the work in. unlike gohan during that time. hes a saiyan elite too and would try to catch up to ss2. even tho end of cell arc we hear vegeta say he wont fight anymore...
and the majin boost just gave him a little extra and excuse to go "evil" again. n let his heart let go of the other feelings he had for bulma n trunks n all that shit.
@@ssppeeaarr He did see him as a friend, remeber goku stopped krillin from killing vegeta, ok The tournament, vegeta knows if goku has an ounce of power he won't give up, which is why he gave goku his power. vegeta in majin form knew if we're gonna beat this new enemy i need you to let out that anger. during the tournament, when vegeta saw freeza and goku teaming up which is what whis said, if you team up you can beat anyone, which is why vegeta new shit is ultra ego.m dumbest shit ever.
Nobody won technically the fight is still postponed😂
@@UFunnyLowe if you wanna go by technicalities then Vegeta won because they technically continued the fight in Super Hero
This is my favorite fight in the franchise
Lmao so that's where Budokai tenkaichis opening got that scene where they nod at each other seductively. From the thumbnail image
The friday reference 😂 you got knocked the fuuuuck out lol
Plz do Nouva Shenron vs Ssj4 Goku who would have won if Eis and Syn didn’t intervene
I see that guitar, what kind of music you play?
Is this a redo of your unreleased seth collab? Swag is redoing his big ones.
I think it would come to a draw. Because I see Goku truly being able to get through to Vegeta, had the fight kept going, and they feel Boo moving away from them. But that's just me.
I think Vegeta. SSJ3 seemed like a retcon, so at that very moment in the story, one was out for blood, the other for a good match. Considering how easily Goku fell prey to Vegeta's claim of ending the fight really shows the difference. Goku would've lost because he's too trusting, he did basically lose for that reason. Vegeta could've just killed him there if he wanted, but by that point of realizing the threat and power of Buu, he wanted to just go after him.
The Smokey reference 😂😂😂
What if Vegeta listened and agreed to fight Majin Buu together with Goku and Gohan/Supreme Kai. How would that play out? (Knowing at this point Goku ssj3 wasnt a thing yet).
Could 3 ssj2's be enough to defeat Majin Buu if they work together?
You briefly touched on this but the main issue is Toriyama did not know what to do with such powerful characters evidenced by the “type” of main villain they faced but there are many times the cast is wayyy to strong for the villain so they wrote in many plot devices to escape this > another example is that Goku and vegeta or even Gohan could have easily used metamorph fusion to kill kid buu but just chose not too > Gohan could have killed super buu > Goku could have killed fat buu > vegito could have killed buuhan > gotenks pissed me off cause he could have potentially killed fat buu. > Gohan could have killed buucilo or whatever buu turned into after gotenks diffused
I find it hilarious that Vegeta thinks that Goku humiliated him. BRO, if Goku wanted to humiliate you, he would've just instant transmission your ass out of the planet and then come back
A lot of people say Goku had ssj3 but the question is what chance did he have to use it? It took time to transform to that anyways.
That was just for the anime
Fortunately, it's irrelevant for this discussion. But on it taking time to transform, that was mainly for suspense and in the anime. When he uses it against super buu (with his now living body), it's instant. I suppose you could say in a way, Goku's dead body was capped to a point in the living world where it took longer to transform as it drained pretty much all of his time left on earth. But again, Vegeta would definitely let him transform into it.
If Vegeta let Cell achieve his perfect form, he'll let Goku go SS3
Which would explain why he didnt.
Considering the fact that Vegeta was his opponent, he would’ve had 100% chance to use it had he wanted to.
Moreover, the reason his first transformation took as long as it was for dramatic purposes and he was trying to stall Buu in that fight for as long as he could.
In the fight against Kid Buu he quickly jumps into SSJ3 with little time wasted in the manga and that was in a living body which was noted to have a harder time with SSJ3 than a dead body which was what Goku had in his fight against Vegeta.
Oh, and Vegeta was pissed off at Goku for not using SSJ3 against him, which further proves that he would've allowed him to use the form without any sort of interference from his end.
Mike. I really hope you took inti consideration that Vegeta's got that Dog in him.
Goku, the unnatural boost of power would probably end up taking a toll on Vegeta's body on the long run, I mean, look at all those veins, it's no absurd musculature but still, is clear that Goku has a better mastery of Ki between the two so he could outlast Vegeta in a fight.
I never liked the Majin Vegeta thing because it feels like Vegeta cheated to get stronger than Goku which to me was character regression, he was already pass that. But I did love the fight sequence and the design and animation style.
Now that I think of it, this was Vegeta's potential unleashed moment, which was further boosted by his evil and selfish nature, and all he did was improve his ssj2 transformation. Hm, considering this, Piccolo's and Gohan's power jump in the new DBS movie truly is impressive. Just goes to show how much potential Piccolo and Gohan have, two prodigies of their respective race. Iirc there was a video game with a what-if story in which Piccolo got to be Majin instead of Vegeta, resulting in Piccolo Daimao taking over again with a power that even rivals and surpasses that of Buu.
I like to think that Vegeta would have won has this gone to a proper end. For me, it was more the mindsets that let me say that. Vegeta, as you said, was out for blood. Goku was trying to get through to Vegeta the whole time. Goku may have been using the full power of SSJ2, but he wasn't trying to kill Vegeta. Time limits and SSJ3 aside, since both weren't mentioned until after that, Goku wasn't seen even trying to use one of his ultimate attacks. He simply wanted to beat Vegeta down to make him give up. Vegeta wasn't holding anything back. If given the chance, he would have killed Goku in an instant. Goku's heart wasn't in the fight. He may have enjoyed fighting someone strong, but the reason for the fight was wrong and Goku was holding back from using his most powerful attacks as a result. That's just my opinion though.
In a different circumstance, like an agreed upon rematch, Goku would have definitely won. He definitely has a number of advantages over Vegeta. But it still would have been a long, drawn out fight.
Goku has a much more durable body tho because he’s dead hence why he can handle ssj3 better when he’s dead so he would have worn out Vegeta faster and won
@Everardo I love how people mention Goku being dead as an advantage, but always forget that the Majin curse allowed even a regular human (Spopovich) to recover from having his neck broken and twisted 360 degrees.
We saw the Majin Curse was a huge boost both offensively and defensively, yet people often try to pretend it's "minimal", while Goku having a body that uses slightly less energy than normal, was somehow this huge factor.
Majin Vegeta had one perk: He could endure more damage than Goku. Spopovich put his neck back in place after Videl snapped it. He wasn't immortal, but to survive an injury like that, recover as if nothing happened and continue to fight shows just how impressive Babidi's magic was. Dead goku can survive similar injuries but only in otherworld.
Vegeta was always tanky. Being able to shrug off near fatal injuries and keep fighting would've been a lot for goku. Unless he was willing to completely obliterate Vegeta, Goku would've tired himself out and Vegeta would've taken advantage of his merciful attitude.
Yea Vegeta is very durable. Even more so against Kid Buu without his Majin Sign. Goku also took one hell of a beating against Frieza before he went Ssj and still lasted long enough to fire off a giant Spirit Bomb. If you trigger either Vegeta's pride or Goku's will to defend others you will have to beat them several times in order to win.
11:52 you forget that krillin also did it with a pebble
Goku has access to the most op combo for non regen combatants. Instant transmission plus destructo disc
Yea if only Krillin ever utilized the Solar Flare & Destructo Disc combo dbz would have ended much earlier haha.
Vegeta kept all of the power that Babidi gave him because he got a zenkai boost after his fight with Goku.
Yeah and once a Saiyan body gets used to the power, it keeps it as was shown in DBS when Goku got his God power from the Saiyan Ritual and in his fight with Beerus it was explained that his body got used to the God power and was able to keep it.
It’s up in the air for me. Vegeta had the intent to kill Goku, Goku wasn’t in that mindset but if he was I would give it to him
People misunderstand the whole "I could've beaten Fat Buu" thing Goku says. He didn't know it AT THE TIME because there were so many unknowns with Buu, he didn't have a good grasp of his strength, he didn't know how much he could regenerate. So at the time it was not a certainty. But only later after he'd seen Buu go through all his forms and all those fights, NOW he knew that looking back he might've been able to. It's not that he knew and just decided not to, because at the time it could've easily turned out that he couldn't beat Buu and he'd have wasted his time left for nothing without being able to teach the kids fusion. So he played it safe.
Super Saiyan 3 came outta nowhere the episode before it Goku literally says me and Vegeta are the same level, that's why he taught the kids the fusion
Goku and Vegeta were even AFTER Vegeta received the Majin boost. Without it, Goku was stronger. And yes, that's without counting the SS3 at all.
Imma say this, one of them is pulling his punches and the other one is going all out, sooner or later it's gonna get harder and harder to keep pulling those punches
My thing is, goku used Kaioken against Hit as Blue and Blue is way more strenuous of a form than SSJ2 given the fact that by the Buu saga SSJ1 was treated like base form
So if the output of power is what caused him to lose time why didn't this also go for frieza in super I always wondered about that because even tho he has alot of control over his power that power output should cause time lost right?
I like to look at how they did against Kid Buu.
Even though he wasn't Majin Vegeta, ssj2 Vegeta did much worse against Kid Buu than Goku did at his ssj2 form.
The first time after seeing Goku used Super Saiyan 2 to blow up Yakon, that's what made him allow Babidi to make him turn Majin.
While Goku and Vegeta may be equal in power and skill, I think that Goku wins thanks to the techniques he has access to. Using instant transmission, he can easily escape from the final explosion and the final impact. His instant transmission kamehameha is unavoidable and Vegeta won't be able to counter it. On top of that, Goku also can use the Solar Flare, which can blind Vegeta, and give Goku time to do any counterplays. He also knows the destructo disk. so he can always do that against Vegeta. I'm also pretty sure he can do the afterimage technique. The only way for Vegeta to counter these is with his energy binds technique.
If we go by Goku's usual plot armor, Goku would win simply because Toriyama didn't like Vegeta as a character (he's even said so) and would handicap him as a result (which is WHY Vegeta didn't close the gap until Super - currently at MUI and UE I'd say they're approximately equal and even if they weren't, because UE makes you significantly stronger every time you take damage, they WOULD be after a few punches - so for all intents and purposes they ARE now equals in power, given the game-changing nature of Ultra Ego - I don't think some people REALLY understand how game changing it is). HOWEVER....if we assume that Goku either didn't GET the free plot armor SSJ3 buff for the same amount of work, or didn't USE it, either because Vegeta was relentlessly pummeling him and didn't give him the lengthy time NEEDED to power up to SSJ3 (against fat buu it did take some time), or simply because Goku waited too long to try to pull it out, lost too much energy in the fight and didn't have the power to SUSTAIN SSJ3 by the time he finally pulled it out and lost it shortly after...LOGICALLY, if Toriyama put aside his Vegeta hate boner for a minute, Vegeta WOULD have won, and that's simply because:
Majin Vegeta IS stronger than SSJ2 Goku. I know a lot of people are under the impression they were equal because Goku got some hits in at the end (when Vegeta was waivering and not really fully focused on the battle after Goku called him out for still caring for Bulma and Trunks and called him a liar for denying it) - but if you REALLY go through that fight again, Vegeta DID have the edge. HE was the one most often breaking through, HE responded to blows Goku landed on him with harder and more vicious blows right BACK at Goku, and HE was the only one of the two during that fight to actually have the other surprised, worn out and even temporarily somewhat defenseless. When he had Goku held up by one arm over the edge of a cliff before slamming him against the rocks and pinning him there with energy bands, that WAS Toriyama's way of showing that Majin Vegeta was holding the edge in this fight. GOKU never had him in such a position, after all. Goku was surprised he wasn't winning.
But by far the BIGGEST reason Vegeta logically would have won if you took plot armor and SSJ3 out of the equation via the above methods, is the extreme durability of the majin state.
Look at Spopovich. Guy had his head turned COMPLETELY AROUND by Videl's kick - something that WOULD have killed him without the majin state- and just popped it back into place, kept fighting, and ended up DOMINATING a fighter who was STRONGER than him because he was too durable and she was wearing out. There is no reason to think VEGETA couldn't do the same thing - keep getting up again and again after injuries that SHOULD be fatal - except maybe for ONE: Vegeta REJECTED being fully controlled by babidi and because of this may not have been given the full EFFECT he would under total control. Under total control, he'd basically be babidi's puppet, who he could re-animate and have fight as basically a corpse if he liked - but because Vegeta's will was too strong for Babidi to control, he ONLY got his latent evil powers (yes, his OWN power - it's a mistake to think he was GIFTED free powers - babidi's magic just works by taking what latent power you have IN you and forcing it to the surface at the cost of control of self, and making you much more durable - that's why Spopovich was still able to get kicked around by a normal human like Videl: his latent power wasn't very high - if it were free gifted power, not from within, Spopovich could easily have been boosted all the way up to the level of Frieza on namek or something like that - why else do you think babidi deliberately sought out fighters who were ALREADY very powerful beings in the like of Dabura or Yakon?)
ANYway, unless Vegeta's rejection of Babidi's total control lowered the effects of the majin state (which seems like it may be the case, to be fair - when buu did his "big power" moment and started beating on him, Vegeta was just lying there - very different to what Spopovich's reaction to being knocked down was), he WOULD win that fight because Goku would eventually run out of ki, and would be shocked to find none of his best moves were putting Vegeta down for the count. "How is he still getting up?!? This is CRAZY!" is what he'd likely say, as Vegeta laughed. Once you reach that point, Goku gradually begins to take more and more hits until he's beaten unconscious by a stubbornly resilient Vegeta whose power as majin was not only a bit MORE than his SSJ2 power, but who was insanely hard to put down. He'd NEED to go SSJ3 to win that fight. But in this instance we're taking SSJ3 out of the equation.
Now, what if Vegeta had not RESISTED Babidi's full control? I think he'd have gotten even stronger, and more durable. Granted, Goku IS dead in this fight so actually contrary to belief GOKU was also getting a buff - he stated himself that you are a lot less durable in your living body (after all, killing someone who is already dead is hard) - so either WAY the fact that Vegeta was able to still have the edge at several points in the fight shows what would have been a far more one-sided fight if Goku were alive at the time instead of in his more durable, dead body. The majin enchantment basically leveled the playing field by making Vegeta more durable too. People consistently act like being dead wasn't a massive advantage to Goku.
This fight is peak dbz to me
I'm going to say Vegeta mostly because we can scale them off of end of Kid Buu fight Vegeta would take it from Kid Buu and still stay conscious the whole time it even surprised Goku is pretty sure Vegeta was going to die not to mention the fact that Vegeta is taking far more punishment a fight against people massively stronger than him so it'll take a lot to put him down I mean the Saiyan Saga fight prove this is well
I've seen 2000 anime and Raizen controlled Mazoku Kakusei Yuusuke is still the most aggressive beat down I've seen in anything
I don't understand why people keep saying the Majin boost was a small boost for Vegeta. When Satan clearly stated that the guy that fought Videl was a completely different fighter from the previous time when he fought him. He didn't say he's a little stronger or even a lot stronger. He said, "completely different." The boost was significant enough that Vegeta knew he needed it to catch up to Goku. The power difference was too great. Otherwise, he wouldn't have taken it. He threw his pride away to get it.
You'd be surprised at how many people who talk about this topic, completely forget about Spopovich's and Yamu's existences.
These characters shed a LOT of light in how big the Majin boost actually was, even more with Spopovich himself since it even allowed him (a normal human) to re adjust his neck after it was broken and twisted 360 degrees.
Yet some people say "naaa, it only removed Vegeta's inhibitions, the boost was minimal". It's insane.
You guys are out here with the DB gospel, keep it the great work!
Despite Vegeta being the literal uncrowned king of ALL saiyans, he didn't knwo the reason a low class saiyan kept surpassing him was because he drank the ultra divine water as a kid. Goku was already the protagonist prior to DBZ, so after Goku drank that water, Vegeta had no chance of ever surpassing Goku after Goku surpassed him.
Sad but true.
Goku not because of SSJ3 but because of his fight with that monster, Vegital went first and basically played with his food because the first guy was a joke but the second one absorbed some of Goku's energy so he wasn't entirely at full power.
Are you having a lot of fun making these?
Hard to say,Goku was far stronger than Vegeta was before he attained the Majin boost and was able to increase his power and even be equal to Goku.
Now Goku was impressed by how much Vegeta had grown through the seven year time skip due to the fact Vegeta was training nonstop over the seven years similar to Goku.
This never made much sense to me... We know exactly who wins in a fight between the two during the Buu arc... It's Vegeta.
Had Goku chosen to start the fight with SS3 he would have won, but despite all excuses and justification to go all out provided by Vegeta he chooses to fight as a SS2. They were physically evenly matched but Vegeta has always been the better tactician and is more than happy to bluff or mess with an opponents mind to get the edge on them in a fight to seal the deal. We saw exactly that happen when he gets Goku to lower his guard even for a second, it was a clean knock-out.
The only scenario that's really worth discussing is if Goku went SS3 mid fight, we saw it requires far too much stamina to sustain when worn out so he likely wouldn't have been able to maintain the form from all the damage and energy he wasted fighting to that point and would have run out of steam before he could end the fight.
There is a good reason why Goku rarely uses SS3 its a form with a lot of weaknesses despite the huge power boost it provides.
YES. Thank you. Goku fanboy's love to throw Vegeta's Ls in everyone's face. And I agree if Goku went SSJ3 mid way through the fight he probably would've reverted back to SSJ2 or normal mode. I look at SSJ3 as the fusion equivalent. Massive power boost at the cost of limited time meaning a last resort type of thing.
Lol the thumbnail
In my head cannon and with the way Goku was talking, I think Vegeta was winning. He seemed to have the advantage the whole fight. They could both go SSJ2, but the Majin boost seemed to up his base power just a little too much for Goku to handle. Def their closest fight ever.
Goku obviously would have won easy at SS3, but he would have had to have been ss3 to win. The peak of his SS2 form wasn't enough.
I had to go back and watch. Vegeta has an entire conversation with Goku later saying he went to the afterlife and knew about SSJ3 and how embarrassed he was that Goku didn’t use it. Goku apologizes. They have the conversation before fusing.
If Vegeta would have defeated Goku based on the fact that Goku would have used more stamina as the fight went on and would have left the Earth much earlier back to the otherworld, then Merged Zamasu indeed did defeat Vegito Blue on that perspective.
If Goku had used the SS3, he would've ended the battle in seconds, long before he felt any energy depletion.
The SS3's quick energy consumption is only an issue when facing someone equally strong or stronger, because then the fight drags. Majin SS2 Vegeta was equal to SS2 Goku, which means SS3 Goku would've 1 or 2-shotted him.
The actual issue was that using also cut Goku's time on Earth, and he knew that even after fighting Vegeta, he still had to do something about Buu.
What baffles me is how did Vegeta train for numerous years after the cell saga, gain ssj2 and yet his ssj2 before Majin boost was so much weaker than Goku's ssj2 that he required to turn Majin to contend? Was it due to him settling a bit more on earth so this training less? If that's the case then it seems Gohan wasn't the only one wrong for slacking on training for the most part
He didn’t have the privileges of being dad like goku
"negates his self preservation."
could tien and piccolo have beaten nappa at the saiyan invasion arc if they were allowed to fight as a team
I really see it as a draw, most likely a double KO. They would both run out of ki. They way they were written tho, one could argue that Vegeta would want the win more than Goku...
How to fix the SSJ3 plot hole:
Goku: I might have a way to be able to defeat Buu... but if it doesn't work...
There is no plothole.
They literally state that using it cuts his time on Earth, and Buu was still a threat regardless of Vegeta.
We don't know for sure if Toriyama had already thought of the SS3 during that fight or not, sure, but that's different from there being a plothole about it.
There's not. There was a legitimate reason as to why Goku didn't want to use it before seeing how dangerous Buu was first-hand.