6mm Creedmoor PRS Load Development
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- čas přidán 19. 02. 2020
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I have many different approaches to load development. In fact, I tend to change my process just about every time I develop a load. The specific method and process I’ll use is based based on the tools, components I have on hand, and my needs/requirements for the ammunition I’m developing. In this video, I outline my 6mm Creedmoor load development process and equipment that I’m using for an upcoming PRS type match.
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I’m currently building my first centerfire PRS rifle and I feel like your videos how to give me great starting to load development for my 6mm creed 😁
I'll be ordering and setting up to reload soon. Videos like this are super helpful and i'm excited to take an already accurate gun and attempt to push it to the next level.
As always great job on explaining technical topics iwould love to more on load development step by step from nothing to perfect even if it was a series. Thank you for your time and dedication to this hobby/sport and willingness to share in detail.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. My dad reloaded some 30-06, not for better accuracy but just to 'save' money on ammo (I don't think that really worked out). I was probably about 8 and I was his helper, he also told me to bring home any lead wheel weights I saw on the street. We melted them down in a pot on the kitchen stove, it stunk and my mom was not amused about that or that he had ruined one of her pots. I remember being surprised that the steel clips from the wheel weights would float on the molten lead. We then cast one bullet at a time, cleaned some old brass, sized it, he put the primers in with a jig that used a hammer instead of a press, working on the kitchen table (after one primer went off he was forced to move the operation out to the cold garage). There was some primitive tool to measure the powder load and he had a press to set the bullets. After a while he got better equipment but eventually one of the reloaded cartridges damaged the old Springfield rifle.
Similar to my process with few differences. 1. I run full length on the new brass. 2. I run through an expander mandrel too. 3. If the node is wide and I can drop in the middle, I use the drum, if not, I go through the process of measuring each weight, which I have a system. I drop the bulk using a RCBS Lite, move to my precision scale, trickling to the correct weight, while the Lite is dropping the next. It goes quite fast. I have the same Hornady and the Lee powder measure, I find the Lee more reliable. I check the weight every 5 or 10 rounds and adjust the drum. I also use the bench primer and it's golden.
I used to be a 3 position national course shooter and I have used everything from an M-1, M-14/M-1A, AR-15 Service Rifle, and Bolt Action and loaded them all on a Dillon 550. All of my rifles shot .75" groups at 100 yards so its normal for a progressive loading machine like the Dillon products to produce the ammunition as needed for long range shooting. Now I'm doing long range shooting with a custom built 338 Lapua, and am using a single stage press. Last year I purchased a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6 Creedmoor, for my daughter to learn this PRS style of completion. By the time she has figures out how to be competitive the barrel will need to be replaced. So I'm here checking out all the video's pertaining to the 6 Creedmoor load development. Thanks for your video.
My match load(600BR) consists of 41.3grs H4350, Tula primer(L) 105JLK, Hornady brass. Or, 40.9grs 4451. Shot my best 600yd group with that load last year, a 1.4"
6gt with mid 34 grains varget behind 109s gets me 3018 fps sd of 8 out of my 6gt with 109s. Awesome little cartridge and my first foray into the 6mm world
Good luck on your match !!
Thanks!
Always so informative!
Thanks!
Great video love the 6 mms
Gavin love you videos, great content.You a brave man loading match ammunition with a drum measure. I want every edge I can have as a competitor I will never give up my auto tricker .
I know you have a Dasher build done . I went with the 6 BRA ,Sd ,of 2-4 . If you want to build on I have a custom reamer .
I have had consistently good results loading 6mm Creedmoor with ADG brass, CCI large rifle primers and Berger 109 grain hybrid target or Hornady 108 grain ELD Match bullets. Powder is Reloder 16, very similar burn rate as H4350. Rifle is Ruger Precision 24” barrel.
Five shot groups consistently under 0.50” at 100 yards and often less than 0.40”. Best groups are 0.33”. SD and ES are 10 or less. Have been successful to 1,000 yards as well
Awesome vid! Sounds like a fun match 😉
IMPACT SHOOTING Just your kind of thing 😉
@@Ultimatereloader was it bromance haha just kidding
Great video as always Gavin. You really need to put a mirage cover on your muffler. It makes a huge difference and helps mitigate the mirage you see coming from your suppressor. They heat up quickly, especially during a fast string in a match.
Yes for sure, working on it!
Hey Gavin, just a couple suggestions. Try to keep your hands and fingers away from the case mouth while priming, just in case one ever goes off. I use the Lee Collet Die to do that virgin case neck uniforming job. It is gentler on the brass than the expander ball. Another method is to use the 21st Century Expander Madrels or the equivalent from K&M. You have more control over the diameter and less chance of galling. With the LCD you don't have to worry about lubricating the necks, so you don't have to clean up. A shallower VLD style chamfer tool for that ID chamfer will also help. From there, maybe consider a couple of strokes using a nylon brush with graphite on those necks to iron out any chance of galling the bullets. Slow down on that K&M arbor and give yourself a chance to watch that force gage. If you are just going to press them in without watching the gage, a regular good press mounted guided seating die is better. Looking forward to the range report. Good Luck!
I agree, I have a Omega 300 Suppressed 7MM MAG and the recoil and accuracy is UNBELIEVABLE !! I have no where near the money you have invested in my rifle I get .25 to .50 groups all the time and I believe it is because of that suppressor.
when is the scope rail bedding video coming? really excited for it. also getting ready to do the same for my set up. Thanks and love your videos.
Yes it might match the faux hawk as well
I like the 224 valkyrie build
Any chance you could show some photos of the bedding job? I also have a howa barreled action in a bravo chassis and wondering if this might be the cause of inconsistent behavior in the rifle or if I should replace the barrel. Love the videos man keep up the great work!
Gavintoobe I would love to see your next build to be 6.5-280 ai its a reloaders round and would love to see what you can get those high B.C. 6.5s to do.
man I totally understand the workload. ive had to load 200 rounds for an NRL. mind you I am still using a manual scale. lol. I know there are tons of scales to use that are digital and faster. but I take pride in 5 fps SD using my manual scale. late nights in the garage, but .4 groups make it worth it. good luck at your match.
Painful, get a scale off ebay
Shoot a forgiving 6mm and you have single digits ES and SD throwing 6.5 StaBall on a progressive press
Again, very impressive work. I have one question, though - I use normally Lapua brass in rifles (Starline in my pistols and revolvers) and for rifles, separating the brass for each rifle and just I just neck size when reloading. I was surprised that new brass shot as well as once-shot brass. Great advice to run new brass though the sizing/depriming die - thanks for that!
I would love to see some content on arbor press reloading
Arbor press reloading?
Great video man just wondering have you checked out the Henderson precision case trimmer for all your case prep
Gavin, love your awesome videos. What is the spiral flute on that barrel? (6 flutes, 8 flutes, etc..) looks awesome
You have to listen to episode 14 of the modern day sniper podcast. The guest is Scott satterlee. It’s a great! Episode on reloading and chambering barrels and much much more. Check it out.
I don’t use the expander balls any more. I use a sizing mandrel.
Question... what about seating depth? How’d you determine the best depth?
Thanks for the great video!
Glad you returned to the 6mm. Very interested in your methodology. Hope you eventually try 107 SMK.
Your Starline brass performance surprised me. Might use it in my AR 10 6mm creedmoor.
Btw, if you don't shoot well at the match, blame it on the wind or maybe the sun was too bright. Have fun!
Also, have you considered using the 6.5 PRC to compete with? I'm considering a Bergara HMR 6.5 PRC in the future to compete with.
You should check out my barrel break-in- the 107 SMKs did GREAT with Federal Premium factory ammo... czcams.com/video/KwuPGFbo044/video.html
When are you going to publish the follow up video on loading match grade ammo on a progressive press?
I use 108 ELD's, IMR Enduron 4451, 2970 avg. and have shot in the .3's....with a Ruger American Predator....could not get the Berger's to shoot much better than 3/4 MOA...
My first press was a progressive & I’m happy with it. I shoot prs type matches with my target rifles. @gavintoob H4350 vs RL16?
very interesting on your 6mm Creedmoor, why not do a video on the 6mm rifle itself.
Nice job getting that load tuned in. The work that goes into development can be tedious, but the reward is worth it! Using a progressive is simply wisdom. Loading thousands of rounds on a single stage is very time consuming. I look forward to more on this rifle and match. Stay focused and I wish you good shooting.
Hola soy juan de españa.
Me gustaría saber si conoces algún tipo chasis tactico para el rifle... haene j10 varmint 243.
Gracias.
Muy buenos videos.
I'm having problems with pierced primers using Federal Premium Small Rifle Match. Practically the same load.
Starline
40.9gr H4350
105gr Hornady BTHP'S.
Maybe I seated these too close to the lands @ .030 off? How close to the lands did you seat?
how will a progressive affect your accuracy at a 1000yards compared to a single stage?
I'd love to know what chronograph you are using to get those low of SD's
Hi rely enjoy the shows and in someway made me decide to move away from the 280ai to the 6.5cm for target work i shoot 600- mile as standard.
I use starline brass LP . Fed 210 m .
And iv Been getting good results with the Swiss RS 60 powder. The Imr 4350 is no longer Allowed here in the UK . So in short i have been waiting for Imr 4451 to get over the water from the USA for some time . Now its here i wish to use 147 eldm but i am unable to find anything in data ?
Rifle is the Sabatti MMR tac, 26" tube 1in 8 twist any chance you could try this bullet and powder combo .
Thanks
Paul ( Uk )
Hi Gavin, do you know what freebore is in this chambering? SAAMI is 0.1829", but that seems to be a lot of jump for factory ammo? I am getting my rifle chambered and am contemplating a custom reamer with a freebore ~0.018" smaller than SAAMI. This will give Hornady Match ammo 5 thou and cut back on the Berger box. I am a handloader, but am worried about the performance with Box ammo that is out there and/or allowing enough neck-to-bearing surface engagement on 105gr Hybrids. Thanks, Chris.
What kind of powder thrower do you use. I use RCBS and it can be almost 1 grain from throw to throw
You took data from your factory barrel with break to developer load for a new barrel and a can? Lucky find
Barrel tuner
He
Hey Gavin, Have you done the progressive loading video for this cartridges, I can't find it.
Question. Am looking to rebarrel tikka into 6 creedmoor. Want to run the shortest possible barrel to reach 2750-2800 fps using 103 eldx or 105 vld. Does anyone have an approx length? Or conversely. What velocities would I expect out of a suppressed 17 inch barrel. A barrel maker suggested I use small primer brass. Can this be explained to me as it seems counter intuitive, but do not doubt their knowledge!!
I did the exact same load development for my 6.5 creedmoor and people want me crucified for it. At 200 yards I'm printing 3 rounds into .491 and all 5 into a hair over 1.5 don't know velocity yet but shooting that tight I'm not too concerned
Did anyone catch the twist rate of this 6mm Creedmoor barrel?
I'm new to reloading, and I was wondering if you have any videos or recommendations for new reloaders? any guidance would be appreciated. thank you sir. keep up they great work.
FortuneCookie45LC Godfather of reloading
@@mattlord2906 much appreciated sir thank you.
@@dougmate2378 your welcome, he answers questions and because of him I dont shop for ammo anymore, I make it.
@@mattlord2906 excellent I'll add him and start watching. Thank you again 🤙🍻
I watching your video back cut your flash holes 40-41 h4350 i find works in 6mm Remington, I reload 6mm remington deer loads from 1976 -1980 i did not get back into reloading 6mm till after 1993 & i got my father rifle! I had tough times and got rid of stuff I got stuff back I used and newer stuff! I took rifle shooting classes I said at end of 5 wins i no longer need any rifles I did get a Remington Sendora 25 -06 all setup scope and all, used, and a 6.5 creed more I though 220$ for new rifle was a typo! it was not! this was all right before the Virus stuff started, try 8mm Mauser ammo & stock i got rifles locally like 3-6 & stock in mail a week or so later! brass & bullets too! I had to change a barrel on a Remington model 7 it was shot with plastic bullets and not cleaned the lan's were flat looking and almost gone the group was about paper plate size at 50 yards i have a howa 1500 same 308 loads sub 1 moa it not ammo its rifle!
Can you do a direct comparison between 6mm Creedmoor and .243? I can't find a single video on CZcams comparing these two cartridges yet, which is surprising.
Tommy TwoGun short and dirty: 6mmC is shorter and fatter allowing the long ELD bullets to fit in the magazine and comes with a barrel with the twist rate needed for them. The 243 can do it see David Tubbs for a reference. You will probably need to rebarrel. I’m guessing this is why Ruger went to the CM in the Precision Rifle from the 243.
Something every adult male need to be seen in the media with.
Off topic from the content of this video, I am a sub and would just like your honest opinion for a guy on a tight budget..... The Frankfort Arsenal Intellidropper..... Worth the $200 for the features and quality, or, save my hard earned pennies for RCBS, Hornady..?
Do you think that the belief that ES adds to your vertical dispersion is correct? I've seen quite a bit of evidence from personal experience and other fellow f-class shooters that extreme spread does not actually have a complete effect on vertical dispersion.
One example off the top of my head is my 223 I used in F-class. It had an extreme spread of 30 fps for 10 rounds, that's .4 inches of drop between the high and low at 300 yds. That load shoots a 1" 10 shot group at 300 yds. So with your theory (along with a lot of other people) that would add .4 inches to my group size because . Now, at 600 yds it would hold two inches of vertical for 20 shots. So, if you use the extreme spread to calculate vertical dispersion it should have never shot better than 3.3 inches.
I shot that same 223 at a few 1000 yard matches, it always shot less than the 10 ring for vertical, i would say about 3/4 of it. You must also add in the vertical effect of a cross wind to that group size. So, I should be adding 8.9 inches of vertical to my group and actually be getting closer to 16 inches of vertical at 1000yds shouldn't I?
Load some 6.5creedmoor on the Hornady LNL with the new RCBS micrometer "drop the bullet into the die" dies
Man I love those seating dies now haha. Have one for my 223 and 6.5 CM
George Gardner is turning out nearly 1000 rounds an hour of 6GT throwing 6.5 Staball on a dillon. I have zero interest single stage loading hundreds of rounds for a match when the round is so forgiving. 109 Hybrids going 2950 with a cruise control load and a node that's single digit ES/SD across .5 grains or better.
Right on, I have some 109s on the way! :)
Why not use Sinclair mandrel die?
how u buy all those guns?
That Lee bench primer is rubbish. Got rid of mine and got the RCBS bench auto prime. Light years ahead!
Same here. A over engineering piece of plastic junk
problem with limit..
Progressive press... intrusting! It give me an awkward idea, maybe a progressive press could work with a lee classic loader. I still use it to ''press'' (from time to time) the bullet and it give crazy SD result. I still cant figure out why.
That's it, I'm rebarreling my savage 243 into this 6mm creed.. good luck at the match.
Reloading Geekiness at its finest.
With 6mm, shooting 800 rounds is about half the barrel life isn't it?
Masheen with a 6 creed it is. Maybe can get 18-2000 if running below 3050fps.
Which press you will use for progressive Reloading?
Dillon RL-550C this time!
gavintoobe what do you think about Hornady ap for precise reloading?
I am unable to donate..How?
Hey Gavin, how far in differences are the 6mm Creedmoor and the 6mm Ackley ?
I don't have any experience with the 6mm AI
gavintoobe Thanks
Not a smart idea to load that much amo for 6mm Creedmoor, your throat will erode and your jump will change & your pressure will change and you will probably jump off your node. I would suggest load no more than 250 at a time.
😂😂😂
Mr, Roger's music for the introduction would fit. Like it a beautiful day in the gun neighborhood, wont you come and join me? Like a remake
I know this is obvious but 1/2moa at 100 isnt going to guarantee 1/2moa at 1000.
Correct, especially when you factor in vertical dispersion from velocity variation and WIND :)
There's an interesting video from a long range shooter on youtube (I'll leave you to find it -- I do know that a discussion of the video was made in a video on the TiborasaursRex channel), in which, using the doppler radar-type chronographs, he claims to have discovered a variation of MORE than 10 fps depending upon how tightly the stock is held against the shoulder. I've argued against this -- suggesting that I didn't think the rifle could accelerate to 10 fps backwards (which would steal 10 fps from the bullet) before the bullet could get out of the barrel, but...I'm not an engineer (just someone who had a year of college level physics). I was thinking that, no matter how tightly the rifle were held (by a clothed human) that the very tiny compression of clothing and flesh wouldn't be hindered in a meaningful way in the short interval measured by the time the bullet got out of the barrel. Be interested in the thoughts of others on this.
That sounds interesting- just so happens I'm building a recoil testing rig this year (50,000 samples/sec with force gauge). May be an interesting experiment!
Newtons law and some quick math - a 5 pound (60 ounce) rifle firing a 0.2 ounce bullet at 3000 fps will move the rifle at 10 fps. So I'm going to go with it being possible and BTW a lighter rifle would allow for more variation. Yeah, I am an engineer and couldn't resist doing the math...
@@LevittownDirtBag Right, "final" recoil is surely in the range of 10 fps. But it must ACCELERATE to that speed. Instantaneous acceleration requires infinite force, so...that's out. The question becomes what speed can it achieve before the bullet comes out of the barrel (when the counter acceleration becomes zero). Since we do know that the bullet comes out of the barrel before the rifle has moved "very much," then it's a matter of calculating what "instantaneous" speed it has achieved at that point. It's surely less than the maximum (although it HAS achieved it's maximum acceleration).
@@LevittownDirtBag And keep in mind that his claim regards holding the rifle tightly against the shoulder vs "not so tightly." Looking at the compression aspects of clothing and flesh, it seems to me that at the START of the acceleration backwards, there wouldn't be much of a difference -- again, AT FIRST -- because of "room" for compression that clothing and flesh allows.
@@GetMeThere1 1/8" is all it needs to get there, that sounds like the difference in grip - and remember final recoil happens when the bullet leaves the barrel
800 rounds? Someone going to smoke that barrel right out of the gate huh?
Precision and a volume powder thrower dont belong together in the same sentence, your never gunna get precise loads with a powder thrower, thats literally 2 different forms of measurement
2850 fps for the 105's in a 6 Creed? Are tring to achieved the slowest load possible in the history of the 6 Creed....
Factory FGMM in that caliber clock 3195 in my 6 Creed and 3150 in three of my team member rifle.
There is two well knowned speed node for the 105 in the 6 creed and is 3050 fps and 3150 fps. Don't look anywhere else and you'll shoot 0.2/0.25'' groups.
I just looked, it's actually more like 2950 which is inline with what Hornady Factory 108 ELD-M ammo runs! :)
gavintoobe Still not where you should be. Push at 3050 and be happier
@@viking9934 Totally disagree! Three reasons: 1. I found the node at 2950, with accuracy 2. A lot of PRS competitors are reducing velocity to lessen recoil 3. Barrel life suffers more when you push velocity
People that watch CZcams love to "tell others what to do". :)
gavintoobe he’s right about the nodes though. I’ve just chambered 3 barrels recently for 2 rifles (2 for 1 action) and both of the barrels tested hammer at 3150-3160fps, sub 5fps std. dev and sub .4moa groups.
You don’t build a 6creedmoor for saving barrel life. That’s like getting a dragster for gas mileage.
I tried loading on a progressive press once... It wouldnt shut up about free health care and which pronouns it wanted me to use
Hahahaha
They can bundle home and auto, so...
WRONG powder try H1000.
When you say progressive press do you mean its a press that believes in social justice and WOMAN POWA!