25 Creedmoor: Initial Load Development
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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Wow! My 25 Creedmoor custome rifle is shooting great, and in this video I share my process for initial load development.
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The following Ultimate Reloader partners are featured in this video:
- Hodgdon Powder
- Blackjack Bullets
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I couldn't shoot a 0.050" group with the muzzle touching the target.
Same:)
😅😅😅
I couldnt shoot a 1 shot 0.050" group.
@@Whogaveyouaduck ha:)
Glad to see the 25’s get some love! Seemed like a no brained for the in between 6 and 6.5 guys. And I have seen nothing but good feedback on those blackjack 131’s!
I love it. Twenty five caliber is my favorite. Thanks for taking this on.
Good to see a little more detail on the 25 Creedmoor. I can see the value in that cartridge, especially for the person that would like a suitable competition rifle that could be easily converted to a medium sized game hunting rig.
I wouldn't shoot my hunting rifle in competition because it's too light and the scope is far to small with just a very basic mil-dot. I wouldn't carry my comp rifle hunting because it's far too heavy and the scope large and akward.
Different tools will make the respective areas of the sport more enjoyable. If you can't afford more than 1 rifle, focus on yourself so you can find a better job!
@@leftyeh6495 There are definitely lower cost ways around that problem, i.e. Savage/Remage switch barrel setup. Only need a second barrel maybe second stock.
Beautiful rifle, that stock is beautuful
Bed inflator and a hose or a co2 tank and hose will let you rapidly cool your barrel to reduce delay in testing.
25 Creedmoor. What a great choice and the results, WOW! I have a 25x47Lapua. I’m shooting BIB 110s but I’d like to try the blackjacks at some point, shoots too good to mess with it. I look forward to more reports on this 25 Creedmoor!
The best rifle caliber imo right now. Sad it isn't standart right now, but it has mad potential!
Wow! Another excellent shooter! Starting to be a trend:) Nice video and great shooting! Keep the videos coming.
Great video. I love that build. I’ve noticed the most consistent, and usually most accurate, results when my loads are at case capacity with H4350. I’ve got my theories on why they are most consistent, but that really doesn’t matter as long as the groups are tight.
Looks good man. I'll have to try that load when I can get my hands on some primers in about 5-20 years. 😐
Just more outstanding content Gavin. Somehow you continue to address the same things I want to learn. Just can't get enough of the precision rifle builds and load development (as well as discussing different approaches to load development). Please keep us updated on this 25 CM project. I would also like to see how adjusting the seating depth around your best speed nodes tighten up those groups as well as if your .05" group maintains that consistency as the throat begins to wear. Would also like your thoughts on how well the new Area 419 Zero press controls runout tolerances as compared to the other presses you've reviewed, and how well you expect the aluminum design to hold up to heavy usage over the years as compared to steel? I realize you have sponsors, but please try to remain as objective as you can; as that's the kind of content I find truly helpful. Thank you again.
@gavintoobe I shoot a 25 creed. It is 24 in Bartlein m24 barrel. I have been using RL 16 with great results. My barrel sped up at about at about 450. Running 42.0 in alpha brass at about 2950 with great SD. Been shooting it at the CD matches this year and have been really impressed. Hit me up if want to discuss more.
Play with seating depth once you get a load with low extreme spread and fairly tight group. Look into a barrel tuner like the EC Tuner Erik Cortina makes. Also reference his load development video.
Well I’m know what my next PRS build will be, thanks for making amazingly informative content
No problem 👍 Glad you enjoyed it, and good luck with your build!
Awesome overview, looks like a freaking hammer. May have to try one as my next rifle 🤔 .
My 2 cents though, is many of us spend a lot of time and materials chasing 1/4 minute accuracy. In PRS, shooting positional or making incorrect wind calls can blow up group size 2-3x if we’re not careful. I try not to stress group size as much any more.
That said my current comp rifle shoots .35 MOA consistently with a 10 shot satterlee test to get low SD and a seating depth test to tune accuracy
Awesome rifle and promising data. I think you are right there for having the gun you wanted. Excited to see the progression.
We need a video with the Hornady 25 cal 134gr eldm !
Lookout everybody! The 257 Roberts Ackley Improved has been reinvented!
There are limitations with other 25 cal rounds that the 25 Creed fixed. I have a 25/06 and have always wanted heavier bullets and better sd. This gives me that.
.257 Roberts is a long action caliber. The two aren't comparable in terms of recoil, brass availability, or consistency
it's more like a 250 Savage Ackley improved
Just a tip. Most mount scopes so the nut is on the opposite side of the ejection port. Just so a case can't hit the nut and fall back in the chamber
I would like go see some long range data
Nice video yes could you do a video on hunting bullets for the 25 creedmoor I'm sure others would enjoy that also everyone is not just in the PRC matches it'd be nice to know that the 25 Cal will do either or and again as a hunting round using the typical 100 115 grain 117 120 would be nice load data would also be good at starting in Max load for a particular powder that you chose thank you in advance I'll be looking forward to it and watching your videos to see if you have one out there thank you have a good day keep up the good wor
Your low SD group just needs a harmonic barrel tune then groups will be consistent and much tighter. Sims slip on or make your own or put a BOSS style weight on the end
Just picked up StaBall and ready to load some with it. New reloader here
Awesome build Gavin! My .02 worth of observation on the load development. First thing is identifying the combustion components for optimal velocity consistency and it doesn't get any better than String #6. Your combination of brass, primer, powder, and powder charge are optimal at 1 fps SD and the avg velocity stability with string #5 is outstanding. After you have the combustion figured out the next thing is timing barrel harmonics and the bullet exiting the bore and for that you use seating depth. I would test in no more than .005" increments with 42 grains to see if you can get close to .25 MOA group size combined with sub 5 FPS SD. If you can you have a long range laser setup. After the optimal COAL is determined I would shoot a 6 shot group with 2 @ 41.9, 2 @42.0 and 2 @42.1 to test velocity stability and precision. I think you will find an optimal load there and be able to maintain precision at long range.
Now you have my interest. Would like to see load data with bullet weights of 100 grain and up.
need to hear more about the 25 CM
This is funny. The 22-250 was developed by necking a 250 savage down to 22cal. The 6.5 creemoor was wad developed by necking a 22-250 case up to 6.5mm. So now we are back to the 250 savage that has been around since the 1920's
Actually the 6.5CM parent case is the 30tc
Except no. We're at cases with almost straight walls and very sharp shoulders. Look up the SAAMI drawings and you'll see how wildly they actually vary by dimension.
@@leftyeh6495 ok it's a Ackley improved 250 savage
It would have been a lot less trouble if u would have just used a 2506
Except 25/06 is long action and 25cm is short action. Given you shoot 25/06 you won’t understand the advantage
I would like to see you adjust seating depth around those low SDs to see if it will group. Question why don't you make your own custom sizing die with all that cool equipment you have .
sizing dies require a sizing reamer. not a chamber reamer
I’m waiting for the 7mm Creedmoor 162’s 168’s & 180’s
Then you can just go for the 7mm TC, with a tighter twist for the longest bullets, not much innovation there. There were people fooling around with the 7 IHMSA 40 years back, practically the same thing.
I got .560 to .630 3 shot groups with 6.5 creedmoor mossberg Patriot 3x9 vortex combo. Using
43.5gr of staball 140gr Sierra matchking HPBT 2,000 off the lands. Once fired seller&bellot brass. At 18°F.. For my hunting rounds. Need to invest in coronagraph. Love watching your load development videos
Hmm. I wonder whether 7mm Creedmoor might be interesting (as the 7mm-08 is).
Is the 25 creedmoor an actual better cartridge than both 6 and 6.5 creedmoor???
Looking great!
Great vid
I have always had a preference for 25 caliber. But that’s just me.
It would be interesting to do *the exact very same thing again* and compare the results!
I built the exact same rifle this past spring. I used a foundations revelation stock though. Same zeus action, Athlon AREs ETR 4-30. I had a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 25 Creedmoor barrel spun up for it. I even have the same trigger and run the same brake. This is my second 25 Creedmoor rifle, both of which I have run the 131BJ exclusively. I use 44.2 grains of 4831SC for a velocity of 2950fps and SD of 4, switched to this powder to preserve barrel life. Both of my barrels are Bartlein 28", with the 25Creed in 1-7.25 twist. I live in Ohio and have the luxury of being in close proximity to Thunder Valley Precision,, a 2500yd range. The 25 Creed with 131BJ makes it to 1mile accurately and consistently. I have finished 1st place in 3, 1mile matches this year. You will find that the Blackjack likes to jump between .20 and .30. My other 25 Creedmoor loved H4350, at 41.5grs it produced SD of 6 at 2980. I have also used Reloader 26 with great success, producing 3110fps with 46.8grs,, I know its a magnum powder, put Miles Johnson and I both love it since it produces the lowest SD's I have ever seen,,, plus you can't get enough in the case to see pressure. The bullets are amazing, and super consistent. I use a BC of .331, which puts my Hornady app dead on out to 1300yds There is strong evidence that Berger is coming out with a VLD 25 bullet soon, but I don't think they will be able to match the cost/performance of the Blackjack. I run Peterson brass, they make proper headstamp brass in limited runs, but necking down their 6.5 Creed brass to 25 is no big deal. I use CCI benchers primers. A.282 sizing bushing is what most of us running Blackjacks use. If you have any questions on 25 Creedmoor, msg me (Shawn Powell) on Facebook.
Love my Zeus pre-fit action, Maybe I should try H4831SC in my 6creed to extend barrel life?
@@johnsimonelli9988 Im sure you would improve barrel life immensely! And the SD's that 4831sc usually beats H4350 hands down
@@shawnpowell5499 Thanks for the info
I’d like to see you test some of the more common brands of high BC bullets from the big bullet manufacturers.
Thanks Gavin. Nice lookin rig. Great groups with that fast twist. Shows the quality of those bullets. Good luck in your future testing. Appreciate the results. Curious if you test with flags.
I have a 257 Ackley imp. I'll look into the 25 Creedmoor. 41grns of 4350(both imr and hodgons) gives me .38 inch groups.
Kurt ,you prefer 4350 over varget for this caliber? I will be working up 257 roberts with 100 or 115 grain projectiles.
@@chrisboynton1211 yes in my rifle, (mod 70-22inch barrel-lite profile) 4350 does the best. Barrel does heat up quick.
@@kurtschulmeyer1041 257 ai and 25 cm are basically twins, there is no reason to switch one for another.
What seating die for this cartridge? I understand sizing with a bushing in 6.5 creedmoor but seating die has me stumped.
Awesome man, I still try to learn how to do it properly and you make it easy! thanks.
Go with load 6 (SD of 1) and adjust seating depth. It’s the best combustion. Just get the harmonics lined out. If you listened to Eric Cortina you would know that.🤷🏼♂️
disagree....go with the best group and play with seating depth for best SD
Dave, from what I have tried adjusting your seating depth changes the group size, the groups tighten up and then open back up. I didn’t use a chrono while doing this so I don’t if the SD got better or worse as the seating depth changed. What have you found to happen?
@@s.manuel7969 i have run this drill alot....i find the best group and then work on my seating depth....huge changes based on seating depth...just a .005 changes SD/ED//
@@Nightmarehc130 I will give it a try, thanks!
@@s.manuel7969 usually a good node .040-.060 off the lands
I think you should go with load of string 6 but moving the seating depth by increments of 0.002” and see if that group gets closer.
Why? The throat will change that far over every 100 round batch fired.
Jump it .020, .040, .060, .080, .100 and see where it's happy. Chances are if it's decent at .040-.060+ you'll never have to adjust seating over the life of the barrel.
I know I'm asking a lot of questions but is that all you need then is the bushing. So you get a 65 creedmoor die and then you are just get the bushing for the 257 spacing
10:14 I have always loved the .25 calibers. Will the 25 Creedmoor ever be a viable caliber, chambered in good quality commercial firearms with available factory ammunition and components? Just asking, your opinions appreciated.
I could ask the same regarding the 25 PRC.
Nice rifle and nice shooting
StaBall will be interesting
id like to see some gel tests with these bullets - see what they look like and how they, or if they, expand
I'm gonna hold out and wait for them to step it up a notch and release the 26 Creedmoor ;-)
LOL!
Sure, what every creedmoor guys have😃
Reloader 16.... The SD of 1 could have been good if charges above and below showed low numbers. If so it would be worth bullet seating changes to find a band of depth that falls into the harmonics of the barrel... Changing seating depth by 3 or 4 mics over sets of 3 will create a pattern of nodes on group size... If you find consecutive Mic depths hitting tight groups go with the one closest to the lands and you are golden...
New powder out from Vv, n555. Specifically aimed at the creedmoors.
Video coming covering N555!!!
@@Ultimatereloader I'm really excited to see this! I picked up a pound of N555 for my new 6.5 Creedmoor as H4350 is impossible to source right now. The velocity numbers look really good in Vihtavuori's spotty data on their website. Luckily the two bullets I've selected are both listed in their data, but I'm interested to see what you come up with. Love your content!
For a second I thought 25 Creedmoor meant it was 25mm. I was all for that!
Try the 42 grains again without the Magneto speed on the barrel.
Mine loves 41.9-42.2 of the H4350. Depending on the Lot #
Gavin, dont be afraid to SLOW it down...the top shooters are shooting under 2800 FPS>..in fact I know a well known PRS shooter shooting 6.5 Creed at under 2600 FPS....I shoot my 6.5 creed at just over 2700 with 144 bergers and my 6gt at 2730 with 115 DTACS....easier to pick up trace when shooting....very helpful when targets are postioned so you cant see your miss impacts against at back drop...
by the way...I just was out shooting both...2 inch groups at 600 yards....validating DOPE on a waterline target......
dave maher what powder and charge weight are you running on your 6GT pushing 115 gr DTACs?
I had a similar thought as you, for dropping back in velocity. To slow throat erosion and stay in the accuracy node for a longer duration during the PRS season I might try going with a slower burning powder like IMR4064 with a compressed charge for consistent combustion, and go with a longer 28” barrel, such that chamber pressures can be lower as the bullet engages the rifling, and then make up for it with the longer barrel length to get back to the 2700-2800 fps range.
Conversely, I would suspect running a short 20” barrel in 6 creed, pushing 115 gr DTACs at 3200 fps with a heavy charge of Superformance would rapidly accelerate throat erosion.
@@BurnDuration running 34 grains of Shooter World Long Rifle..it burns slightly faster than H4350...i am more accurate with follow up shots...faster follow up with less recoil...brass life is twice the life....
dave maher interesting powder choice. I would have figured a slower burning powder than H4350. Is this a partial case fill on the 6GT, or compressed charge? Also, has your barrel life been notably improved with this load?
@@BurnDuration not sure....only about 1000 rounds with the lower MV...
I wonder how N550 would do in the 25 cm. Always had good luck with it myself.
Enjoyed your video I have Hornady 6.5 creedmoor dies so what you're saying is just getting a neck size bushing to replace the one in the dye got it understand but what cedar stem do you use I know it's a 25 Cal all I see out there is for eldx ETC question is will that work for bullets from say 75 to 120 grain if not where would one find one so far I've been unlucky to track a cedar stem down only for El DX no one seems to talk about where to get the components to replace in the 6.5 creedmoor dies be nice to know so others like myself would enjoy putting together a 25 caliber creedmoor my usage is for hunting deer only thank you in advance
On your reloading side of this have you used a expander mandrel after you have taken your 6.5 creedmoor to 25 to have consistent neck tension, you need to check out Porter Precision expander mandrel die they are top notch you can order pin in 1/2 thousand, need to check out?
Do you have a link ?
Using that chrono attached to your barrel is affecting its node !!
Never ever liked bullets goin 3000 + fps. Not needed unless you have 4 barrels and have tons of powder , so I'm kinda conservative 2750 - 2890 fps . No more , 3ven for my AR 223.
This is what the AR 10 was made for.
It seems like a sweet spot cartridge. The amount of powder relative to the grain weight,with a soft recoil. A .243 Winchester uses that charge load and only shoots 100 grain bullets with virtually the same recoil as the 25 Creedmoor. Much better hunting round in my opinion.
Wait is recoil a real concern with the 6.5?
I take it that the 25 Creedmoor is not a factory round it has to be built cause I've never heard of it and definitely never seen any factory ammo not even online
I see Alpha and Peterson have brass. Alpha SRP..
I think i would play with seating depth on 6
I’m probably the only person who wants to see this but what about a 22 k hornet custom build with a twist rate that can run the slightly heavier bullets for better longer range accuracy?
What size neck bushing did you use?
‘SD’ of 3 shots? Why not use 1 shot for SD & 1 shot groups thus removing all trace of statistical rigour?
It is a modified saterlee test to determine where he should explore further with regards to load development, then he can shoot 5 shot groups
🤔Modern problems require modern solutions
Do you understand how data collection works?
@@taylorbokshowan5713 i was hoping he was joking
@@wildcat_reloading I go back and read it and I see you are correct. I was reading some pretty stupid comments and this was near the top, but as a joke it is kind of funny.
I would like to see you build a 22 creedmoor.
Hey Gav would love to see a review on the athlon scope you have on this build
I have several Athlon scopes, I had an Argos lose it's shit on my 300 rum but stuff happens, they gave me a new one. For the price I don't think you can beat them. I think they are a better buy than Vortex. What are you wanting to put it on?
@@taylorbokshowan5713 I'm thinking of putting it on my 270 win ackley improved build
Just curious about the groups. You were using a MagnetoSpeed to capture MV. I have a Magneto speed and they really work well and are accurate. But I have concerns about group size when the MagnetoSpeed bayonet is mounted on the muzzle. To avoid that issue I've gone to a LabRadar. Do you have any thoughts on this?
It would be interesting to take the power charge that you got 1 SD snd play with the seating depth.
i figure a fella that can built a rifle from scratch can figure out a big ass weight on the end of your barrel strapped on with Velcro shoud be used to measure velocity and thats it
I'd like to see some load development with the Shooters world powder SW4350 in this rifle. I'm curious if it holds up to the traditional H4350 that has been the staple of 6.5 creedmoor for so long.
Try Reload Swiss RS60 powder
I'd like to see the 25 in a ar10 platform. Thanks for sharing always good content
That stock....nice
Years ago we used to consider a 220 Swift a barrel burner at 4000 + feet-per-second now a barrel burner is slightly over 3000 I don't see it
That was with light for caliber bullets. Now you're talking about the heaviest bullets available in that caliber. More bullet, more bearing surface, more heat and pressure over a longer duration. It all adds up.
Would like to see 110 grain nosler accubond loads
I would like to see that also and the 1:15 noslers and some 117 greiners also but I don't think that's going to happen they're all hyped up on all the blackjack bullets so I guess time will tell good luck I've been trying I'm not getting anywhere
Go with the lowest ES and SD, then change the seating depth.
You best tell him how to load
any hunting results with this bullet?
Would love to see some testing with the Mighty Armory 6.5 Creed and 6 creed sizing dies 👍
The 3 creedmoors are based off the same case and not shortened?
Yes!
PLEASE do a 280 AI build!
what is the benefit of the 25CM over the 25:06? TY. What about using a MANNER stock?
Less powder (10-15 grns depending), less recoil, small speed decrease, short action vs long action.
Manners makes very nice stocks.
@@leftyeh6495 thank you
Is there any way that the .25 creedmore could be a light weight traditional bolt action rifle with a composite or even a walnut stock. Why does everything have to be on a AR15 bolt tactical sniper round ? (Hey I am ok with that to.) Really why hasn't the .25-Souper standardized ?
I'm all for BC Down range outfits. But I would like to see the .25 in a simple light weight hunting rifle with even a 20 inch barrel.
use a structured barrel from TACOMHQ
Do you have info for 22 creedmoor load development with H4350?
i like this cartridge,,,,,,but it looks much the same as the 250 ackley,,,,,,,,in fact the 250 looks to be a little better,,,,,but at one time i was told you can make 6.5 creedmoors out of 22-250 casings,,
Seating depth test might close that group 6.
I'm looking to go back into reloading ammunition once again after a 30-year absence has been a while. I'm going to go back to basics and I'm going to try a Lee Progressive loader.
On the Progressive I'm going to load 9 m m 40 caliber Smith and Wesson and 556 NATO
For shotgun rounds I'm going to use a lead load all shotgun reloader unit
Ultimate reloader what are your suggestions I'm always open to criticism and suggestions let me know your thoughts
What are your thoughts on 25CM vs 25GT?
I think they have 25 creedmoor is going to be my compromise custom build. I wanted to do a 257 blackjack rifle based on a short action ultra magtarge Neck down however I'm having difficulty finding a used rifle in that caliber. I don't know if there is 125 nozzler that would be probably the perfect round I know that The blackjack Gains 200-250 ' per second over it The 257 weatherby. As a wildcat the 257 blackjack would be Design around one b bullet with a long throat. A long case neck So what would be the perfect long range target rate. Sorry not proofing this. I need to limit my bullet availability so That I don't load 100s of rounds with different bullets Because I like to tinker
Not sure if anyone has asked, but have you considered playing around with the "Peterson 25 creed Brass"?
Do you think 25 creedmoor will become as popular as 6.5 creedmoor and 6mm. Will have factory rifles and ammo made off the shelf.
Gavin. Have you done any testing with Reloader 16 powder yet? It's supposed to yield better velocities than H4350, yet has all the accuracy H4350 is known for in the Creedmoor platforms. Just food for thought if you're looking for video content. 👍✌
Can you build a 25 creedmoor ar 10
Hey Gavin, quick question, how'd you get into gunsmithing and where did you train?
Good question!
Impressive group. Do you find that you get different accuracy results when the magnetospeed bayonet comes off?
I wonder how that rifle would do in the 1 mile Milk Jug challenge..