The History of Burn Decks | MTG Deck History #4
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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I've heard of sligh decks before, but never knew the name came from a player! Imagine being enshrined in the annals of MTG history like that
Same, and I heard that name like 20 years ago. Lol I thought it was like, mtg slang for "sly" or something.
there was also a deck called Ponza, which was named after a dish from an Italian restaurant
Sligh by Paul Sligh could be a perfume brand :D
And he didn’t even design the deck from what I remember. He just piloted it to the first good finish.
Hey Nizzahon,
I want to spesifically thank you for this series. I really like your top 10s, but these videos offer many answers to things I've been wondering. This might be my favourite MTG-related series so far.
Glad you like them!
There is a chance that Arena players will finally stop confusing RDW with Burn.
Never, Nizza even got it 'wrong' RDW is a more mid-range variant of Mono-red Aggro
Back in 1995/1996 (Revised-Ice Age) we'd call them "Cheese Decks" which basically ran all burn spells at the time With some goblins thrown into the mix for Goblin Grenade.
Every burn player knows that any deck with a mountain and at least one copy of a red burn spell in it is mono red burn. Especially if it’s actually red black agro.
My modo name was mono red burn and people would go ape shit when I played a island turn one. 😷🎃
I remember when Eidolon was spoiled and so many people thought it was a worse, more vulnerable form of the enchantment it emulated. I thought it had an incredibly high ceiling due to the body representing a clock and eating removal would usually damage. I am a bad player but that was the one time I was right.
Well really the grandfather of burn decks.
When Richard Garfield was designing the game someone made an all lighting bolts and mountains deck.
That's why they decided the rule only 4 lighting bolts per deck..
I will keep my burn deck forever. Love playing Burn. Almost fully foiled out my modern burn list.
I think that the ravnica allegiance standard red deck should have been considered as a standard burn deck: it had shock, lightning strike, wizard's lightning and skewer the critics. Furthermore, it had viashino pyromancer, which is a creature with a burn etb trigger.
Loved that burn deck. People called it RDW cause you used creatures to push for damage, but we all know it was about just blasting face with all the lightning burn cards. Really feel like that was the time that WotC decided to stop printing effective player burn because people got mad at how consistent and fast that deck was.
Was and still is a competitive deck. Frenzy still awesome
Keep these deck history’s coming! Love this type of content
Will do!
As a beginner Judge who started my journey amidst the pandemics this series is really helping me to get more familiar with the landmark decks of the competitive scene in formats I have little experience like Modern. Thank you so much, please keep going
I was hoping to hear a little about Pauper burn as well here
I keep waiting for 'Bump in the Night' to have it's day in the hot red sun.
Sadly, it seems this will never happen.
It was a thing briefly in modern Burn.
I'm not so sure about "never", Bump is solid enough that IMO black really only needs one more good burn card to get into the format as it's own version and that just needs to be something strong _enough_ to compare with what Atarka's Command, Lightning Helix and Boros Charm bring to the table. I have opinions on what sort of design would be most appropriate to fit the bill (I think fetching Blood Crypt should mean giving up utility and gaining more raw damage output in return) but at the end of the day it's not my choice to make. That said while I suspect something like this happening is unlikely, I wouldn't write it off as being impossible outright.
Sad to see no honorable mention of RNA burn. Probably the strongest we’ve ever seen a burn deck in standard.
What is RNA burn?
@@danieldukai1380 Mono Red Aggro decks during Ravnica Allegiance. It wasn't called "burn" while in standard, but with shock, skewer the critics, wizard lightning, lightning strike, viashno pyromancer and risk factor it could often win games without ever connecting with a creature.
How about hazoret red?
Turn 3 wins with my burn deck during that time was fun.
@@eirh risk factor was the star of the deck imo, many people let you draw three rather than take 4, and that means you get sum gas
I love History and I love Burn! Nice video!
Iove these videos, it is so fun hearing about decks from over a decade before I got into the game. This is a great series!
Glad you like them!
History of board games in the Middle Ages would be a cool link between your channels.
I did do a chess video
There was a national championship held before that, either 1993 or 1994 (don't remember the year), but it was held before the 4 card limit on copies of cards in standard.
One of the two decks that made the finals was a burn deck that consisted of 20 lightning bolts, 20 ancestral recalls, and 20 black lotuses. It - and the Black Vice deck it was going against - had consistent turn one kills, leading to the coin flip deciding the final match.
It wasn't a national championship, it was a very informal tournament. Sanctioned magic began in 1994 at worlds, and the rules as we know them were in effect (mostly).
Really enjoy these deck exploration videos. I wish for the final legacy deck that you talked about the new cards that set it apart.
Thanks for the great videos!
Don't know if this was a urban legend or not, but would the first burn decks be before the 4 card limit and people would just run mountains and lightning bolts. Heard this was the reason the four card limit was added to the rules.
Check out Rhystic Studies CZcams channel, he's where I've heard of 40 lightning bolts, 20 mountains.
My favorite decks.
No brain deck imo
Still stronk
@@God-ch8lq I disagree with the no brain statement
@@zulfyby you just bolt face
@@God-ch8lq Pretty much sure but most control decks can also be described with you control board or infect you hit face with poison etc etc. The point i am just trying to make is magic isnt easy even with years of experience sometimes it might seem that way but counting down from 20 to 0 is also a skill. Hell even Ai´s cant play magic perfectly.
And sure burn is low on the overall complexity scale but it is still on it
@@zulfyby Burn is a low floor high ceiling deck, one mistake and the burn player loses the game. For the most part all of the skill is in when to bolt creatures and when to bolt face but the answer is usually face.
Been a fan of mono red since I first started playing magic about 15 yrs ago. Learned alot about all the other colors but always when I want to play competitively against any deck in any format I got back to the routes of mana curve and build. Love that you put this video together, I dont comment much but your work is great following these top tier lists is nice because sometimes suprising might have those card irl and can form a nice deck or use staples as the backbone for other aggressive builds. Tlevery list from sligh to ramanap red have been great to see or play. My person fav is Dave Price list an the OG geeba sligh. Great vid!
@1:36 I seriously started to type "Stripe Mine" into Gatherer for a moment, thinking I'd forgotten a card!
Great series
I appreciate the video. It feels like there some extended and standard decks that were called red deck wins but were just as burn as the ones listed during the period of extended and a bit after. It would be cool in the future if you end up doing a video on red deck wins to look at the Era’s in magic when the name was popular because I think that made it look like there was a period where spell based red decks weren’t a thing where it was more so the naming convention.
I love these videos. Anything with the history of the game is just so nostalgic to me considering I was opening up packs of revised at 2/5$ with my younger brother lol:)!!!
Worth mentioning that one of the reasons Naya Burn fell out of grace was the surge in popularity of Blood Moon
The most common Burn Decks in my local meta at in the mid to late 90s were all virtually identical:
12 Mountains
12 Urza's (4 of each)
4 Fireball
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Disintegrate
4 Fork
4 Mana Flare
2 Dragon Hatchling
2 Shivan Dragon
1 Library of Leng
1 Ivory Tower
10 other cards to balance out your strat with either more creatures, land destruction, or some control.
Control was usually:
4 Power Surge
4 Mana Barbs
2 Howling Mines
Land Destruction:
4 Stone Rain
2 Dingus Egg
2 Ankh of Mishra
2 Shatterstorm
Creatures was Usually:
2 More Shivan Dragon
2 More Dragon Hatchling
2 Firebreathing
2 Dwarven Warriors
2 Other Red Weenies
It was brutally efficient.
Anyone remember the Boros burn deck from around RTR/ Theros standard? I used to verse it all the time and it was quite efficient
I built it as my second deck at the time and lent it to a friend. His roommate took it and sold it because he was owed rent...
I was going to comment on the lack of Ramunap Red but then remembered your distinction between RDW and Burn
Wonderful video!
Yes!
The single most enduring deck archtype of all time.
What about that Boros burn list in theros standard?
Boros charm, lightning strike, searing blood, warleaders helix, shock?
Burn and Draw-Go are the only way to play Magic! Who needs creatures?
Virtually every burn deck needs some of them.
Stripe mine sounds like a cool land in the "Pre-burn" deck
Great content! And the new mic sounds great!
Cool, thanks
Loving the new mic
Oh yeah, my favorite constructed deck! I have a burn Legacy deck since it's the only legacy deck that I can afford to own :D
you mention in the legacy list that it contains lightning bolt, but that card isn't in the decklist that you show in the video. But when i add up all the cards it has 20 lands and 36 other cards.. so the 4 missing could be the lighning bolts you mentioned.
The people spoke and he delivered 🙌
Remember to bolt the bird kids at home.
and in standard, shock the elf!
Burn just got a new toy in Modern with Flame Rift. Wonder what it will push out since the list is pretty right now. Maybe mono-red burn will see some play.
Price of Progress is stupid good. I loved that card in EDH
Black Discard or control decks, id love to see grafted skullcap/ensnaring bridge deck brought up
God I miss good burn decks! Everything is so slow and counter heavy these days that actually playing a burn deck to a win feels like a shot in the dark. Boros burn from 2014 was my favorite. Used a standard variant to win a gameday tourney at my LGS that year, and won the playmat I'm using as a mousepad while typing this comment out!
RIP Burn decks, you will be missed :( It saddens me how WotC has decided that burn doesn't get to be a playstyle anymore and the best you have is some faster midrange decks that could be considered aggro if you squint at em.
Ironclaw Orcs. Even in the early history of the game, I didn't expect to see them in there.
Andrea Redi's deck rocked 4 Stripe Mine. Hottest new land in MTG!
It’s faster than all the other lands
@@karmajarrule i thought that title was reserved for [[Rocket-Powered Turbo Land]]
Surprise you missed the huge mods to the land base that came with MH1: the horizon canopy lands. Also, the “still TBD” companion addition of Lurrus, that potentially changes Boros burn sideboard forever….other than that, very interesting video and well done
Love your channel man, recently found it.
Glad you enjoy it!
I top 10'd legacy worlds from 2005 to 2010 tyvfm... I was monored with sb for disenchant and then I changed to goyf main and krosan grip in the board
Awsome content
Haven't seen the video yet. He'd better talk about the infamous 40 Bolts and 20 Mountains Burn Deck.
I guess I could have, but that was before sanctioned Magic existed.
I love this
History of death and taxes!
It will happen at some point!
Can you maybe show more cards from each deck? ^^
This would be nice
I know including decklists and discussing variants which never managed to actually break the top 8 of an international event such as a Grand Prix, Pro Tour, or World Championship would make these videos considerably longer but all the same I felt a sting when the segment on Extended variants of this archetype ended so quickly... Especially considering the second list only deserves to be called a hybrid at best. It may have burn spells in it but the core trio of Kird Ape/Wild Nacatl/Tarmogoyf clearly cement it as a Zoo build with some extra reach, hardly worthy of the definition as described in the intro.
As for my experience with what I can confidently call Extended Burn, In early 2008 I found myself attending a local PTQ piloting a mono-red build that "splashed" artifact lands in the form of Great Furnace, Darksteel Citadel and Blinkmoth Nexus in order to utilize Shrapnel Blast as a finisher. Most lists from this time ran only a smattering of creatures that were largely capable of ignoring combat (Mogg Fanatic/Keldon Marauders/Spark Elemental) with the rest of the maindeck being mainly focused on spells that could hit the opponent's face. These included lasting star players Lava Spike and Rift Bolt, but also resorted to period choices (Incinerate and Magma Jet) with the final few nonland slots varying heavily between players. I went with Flames of the Blood Hand and Shard Volley that day myself, since Sulfuric Vortex was still largely considered a sideboard card back then and frankly I was too dumb to recognize the potential of Grim Lavamancer at the time even if I'd had the means to get my hands on a set. I Nearly made top 8 in spite of the fact though, picking up my 2nd loss in the final round to an embarrassing play mistake. Others using similar lists fared better than myself, with many popping up across the top 8s of other PTQs that season and at least one even managing to qualify. I tried again next season to less success (more due to my own fumbling teenage energy than any discernible difference in the format as I was playing it) and after going 2-2 I later watched from the sidelines as Glimpse of Nature exploded onto the scene... It was a monster of a deck, but at least the issue was addressed soon enough. Alara Reborn saw the coming of Hypergenesis, and it's prompt departure allowed Living End to bring a new flavor of graveyard-based deck into the game.
...And then of course Zendikar came along, prompting Wizards to shart just about the entire bed. Standard trudged along stubbornly, Modern came into the world kicking and screaming, and Extended was left to rot despite it's past contributions. From that point on it was without a doubt the neglected middle child of the scene: Ignored to the point of being dead in all but name, nourished only with scraps of lazy ideas, and forced into smaller and smaller clothes that didn't fit until the bastards simply gave up and stopped pretending that they even cared for what it had once represented in the first place, only acknowledging it one last time as a nuisance that stood in Modern's way as they tossed it aside while muttering some excuse about not wanting to fracture the playerbase too much.
I like your new mic!
Thanks!
Good to get here early.
I played a version of burn in casual group play with 4 players. I think it’s called brawl now. Mana flare
Pryoclasm
Inferno
Earthquake
Furnace of rath
And the all star
4 copies of glacial chasm
Just sit in my class as I burned down the world
I loved the ball when the dark expansion came out...im old
The last decklist on legacy lacks 4 Ligntning Bolts lol
Oof, some of the cards in those first few decks are so rotten now. Even back then some of then were considered pretty rotten.
Yes they were, but it was the beginning of the mana curve. It was a brilliantly designed deck, using the best cards it could at that time.
I feel like the OG history would be, IDK, 1/3 black lotus, 1/3 lightning bolt, 1/3 ancestral recall & 2-3 copies of Timetwister. 🤔😅
Was the legacy list missing some cards? It didn't seem to have lightning bolt for instance in the list on screen.
It's 56 cards, missing 4 lightning bolt
You forgot the greatest burn deck of all that was co-created by Saffron Olive and Magic Aids: Chandra's Incinerator burn. Once paper tournaments are legal again, I will be bringing that deck to local modern tournaments. Will it dominate? Of course not, but it's a 60 dollar deck that you can play sleeveless out of a ziploc bag. If you manage to go 2-2 against in a tournament where the average deck prices around 700 dollars, it will be hilarious!
Did you have any luck?
@@HWHY It had its moments.
Boros burn from return to ravnica/m15 was successful
I was also surprised not to see it here... the firedancer dude gave it some flexibility, war leaders helix, Boros charm, side board spark trooper, deck was strong
I love my burn deck
Nioce.
Hey would have been nice if you included Pauper Burn ;)
Nevertheless cool video
Cool
Can you add pauper to deck history's
I have considered it, but once I start including non-premiere formats, I feel like I have to include them all, and that would be a bit much.
@@NizzahonMagic Wait, Pauper isn't premiere?
@@AkukAkuku Nope.
@@AkukAkuku I've never heard of a pauper protour
I was surprised to not see a channel fireball deck, given how much I've heard of it. Did it never top 8, or would you say it's not a burn deck?
That’s more of a combo deck
By the time competitive Magic was a thing, Channel was a restricted card. I believe Henry Stern and Mark Justice both had a copy in their decks in the 1995 US Nationals.
Lol I didn't realize I've been calling my red deck wins deck a burn deck
What mic is that? Sounds very nice
looks like a shure mv7
It is a shure sm7b.
🔥❤️🔥
What's a Stripe Mine
You sac it and it destroys any one land.
Yo it's Tuesday >: ^)
I hate burn decks, but I like this video
lucantonio? xD was this guy a fusion?
you didn't mention horizon lands? those things pushed burn up so much. drew the 3rd land? pay 1 to try and make it a bolt
Face for radio
No fork or blood lust...im surprised
💜🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
The most evil deck known to man. Great video, loving this series
I feel like most players hate Blue control decks even more haha.
@@NizzahonMagic
Now that's a deck that isn't evil. That is just sadistic.
@@NizzahonMagic Waiting for when it's finally Azorious/Esper control time. They sit and wait, patiently, like most control players do.
Take a shot every time he says burn
Wild that I would say burn in this video. Seems off topic!
@@NizzahonMagic taking too many shots is kind of like running an rl burn deck !
You skipped the rtr-theros boros burn with chandras familiar, chain to the rocks, etc
You considered rerecording your card kingdom intro? There's a noticeable increase in audio quality when you greet viewers after the intro and title.
I was just thinking that this morning haha
The strongest burn deck is Pauper burn.
(red deck wins intensifies)
Mill is just burn 2
History of Merfolk
that mic wow
Algorithm
Really enjoy these deck exploration videos. I wish for the final legacy deck that you talked about the new cards that set it apart.
Thanks for the great videos!