Setting up control surfaces, linkages, and throws for iNav
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- 🔗 www.MrD-RC.com 🔗 / mrd_rc
In this video we take a look at how to set up control surface throws in iNav. Well, I say in iNav. But the truth is that most of this is physically changed on the plane it's self. Other than setting the mixer, there is very little to do in iNav. The exception being if you have elevons or ruddervators that need different throws on one axis compared to the other. The example in this video has an elevon that needs more pitch than roll.
Setting up the correct throws is a pretty important part of the plane's build. Which is why it's so frustrating that a lot of the manufacturers of FPV planes don't give you recommended throw ranges for their models. I'm yet to see a LOS plane where throws aren't included. Be that a cheap foam trainer, or a large balsa models.
✈️ Contents ✈️
00:00 Introduction
00:25 Important! Do this in manual
01:15 Explaining the demo setup
01:59 Where do you usually find the throws?
03:14 How to set up the throws
04:24 - Moving the control rod to change the throw
06:15 - How to measure the throw
07:52 - Changing the servo horn position to get equal throws, or differential
09:16 - Adjusting the clevis to get the control surface level with the adjacent surface, or add reflex
11:50 Why control horns not at 90 degrees to the hinge are sub-optimal
12:41 Adjusting the mixer for non-equal throws of pitch and roll on an elevon, or pitch and yaw on a ruddervator
14:51 Reducing or increasing the total throw of the servo
15:43 Conclusion
Thank you for watching this video. Time is precious, so I hope that you got some benefit from this video. If you have any questions, please leave a comment and I'll do my best to answer. Please try to keep questions relevant to the video in, as they may also help others who have the same question.
✈️ In this video ✈️
🔗 iNav Configurator: github.com/iNavFlight/inav-co...
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⚙️ Matek F405-WSE: bit.ly/MrD_32IFZET
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I think that was a very good video especially for the entry level pilot on such a important task. worth mentioning that you'll get the most power out of your servos when you pick the inner hole on the servo and the outer on the horn. I love how you mount your horns in the middle of the rudder like most manufacturers never do. nice job Darren!
I’m hoping this will help some new pilots not end up with 3D throws Stuwe 🤣 That horn on the elevon is all stock, other than the ball joint. HeeWing set them in the middle of the control surface. Just a shame they weren’t in line with the hinge and aligned with hinge.
@@MrD well but at least one manufacturer that got that one right. yeah 90degree aligned is the best just to reduce mechanical stress. I always put ball joints on both sides even if the link is straight. just to reduce even the slightest offset and torsion. I think proper mechanical setup of servo controls is key to smooth control and long lived servos.
This is the best explanation i've seen on control surface throws. Something Darren said that often gets missed in other videos is measure the same surface don't do top to bottom, top to top or bottom to bottom.
Thanks Bryon 👍
I've been flying with Inav since ver 1.9 and I had no idea how to set up throws and the mixer. I just used the default control horn location and played with the mixer until it looked right. Thanks so much for this video. I am going back and try this on some of my models that don't tune/fly well.
No problem Joe. Setting up on the control linkages will get things working better. You get to use the full resolution of the servo. Say in iNav you set the output to 50%. You’re losing half the movement of the servo. Keeping the output to 100% and adjusting the linkage, you have more control over the same surface movement.
Great information for everyone. Thanks
You’re welcome Silvio 👍🏻
I nav is the best.. if I could start over in hobby.. would have started with I nav. For a hobbyist all you need.. turtle mode was big. Much needed in I nav. Just so much more you can do. Thanks for teaching.. great channel 💪💪👊👊
Thanks man, I really appreciate that. I believe iNav has turtle mode now too.
Great information - thank you.
You’re welcome
Thanks Darren,I learnt something.
No problem Mark. Happy New Year.
thanks that is useful, as a a new plane pilot this is vital as my first maiden was a bad experience i am more careful now to get it right.
I’m glad the video helped Helmut. Don’t feel bad. I see too much throw many times. It’s really on the manufacturers to provide safe throws. Especially for new pilots.
Great walkthru setup. Thanks for taking to the time to add chapter bookmarks. Makes for great reference material. 😎👍👍
FYI: There is no preview image(s), in Chapters so CZcams showing "..." image. Normally video still from that timestamp showing, but appears YT broken, or a setting not quite happy.
No big deal, just mentioning in case you're not aware.
Thanks, glad the video was helpful. I don't have any control over the chapter thumbnails. That's all down to CZcams. Hopefully it will fix its self soon.
Again thanks a lot for the great information.
I'd have liked and I still want to get throw information on my mini AR wing and Dart250.
We should have an easy to access encyclopedia of throws for RC planes.
Thanks Goku. To be honest, we shouldn’t need an encyclopaedia of throws. The manufacturers should be providing them in their manuals. Non-FPV planes have had them for decades. But it may be a good idea until these manufacturers get their acts together.
yay, now we can answer..... "there's a video for that" LOL
Definitely Charles. It would have been handy a few weeks ago 🤣
Darren thanks. When you reduce rates to say 95%, do you keep the aileron elevator total 100% or do you need to change those to add up to 95%?
Yes, the pitch and roll on the elevons I kept the same. I just fine adjusted on the outputs page.
Great video. Where did you get that tool from to measure your throws?
Thanks Peter. I got it from AliExpress. I’ll add a link in the description tomorrow. It was pretty cheap too.
Thanks for the great info Darren. Its nice to have a solid source. I have a question. I am about ready to maiden a Dart XL extreme wing and noticed that the wing you are demonstrating with is very similar to the Dart with the reflex built in. My question is this: on Zohd's instruction manual it states the roll throw to be 16mm and pitch 12mm. You mention that on your wing the larger mm throw is on the pitch and smaller mm throw on the roll. Is that a personal preference? Thank you for your continued help
The Dart XL is a forward swept wing. These tend to be roll sensitive, so need less roll than pitch. It is an attribute due to the design. With the Dart 250G, I did reduce roll slightly.
If I’m perfectly blunt, the throws that ZOHD include aren’t tested. I questioned them when I had an issue setting up the ruddervators on the Talon 250G, as it would not reach their recommended throws. They told me “throws are a ballpark figure”. When the number they give can’t be reached on the surface with the rod at the maximum deflection position. It really does show just how “ballpark” they’re being.
To be honest, those throws sound backwards to me. Based on how forward swept wing aircraft usually perform. But never having a Dart XL, I can’t confirm either way. I would probably err on the side of caution and maybe go in the middle of that range for both pitch and roll.
Do you have any idea what the throws should be for a Reptile Dragon II? That info is missing from the manual.
Nice video, but what is the right way to know if throws are right and not too much or not too low? Flying only?
Yes pretty much. The problem is not knowing where to start, and only experience from flying other, similar planes can give you that. Which is why it’s important these manufacturers start including throws in their manuals. They should have already worked out the safe range while testing their models.
Again thanks for the video just built skyhunter 1.8 m h743 with inav 3.01 or 3.0.2 can’t remember one of the two. Anyway my ? Is how does inav do with digital servos they all seem to respond fine except sometimes the pan servo on my camera get gittery so I wonder if the all r doing the same thing all servos r runnin 5v with inav default settings couldn’t find any set up info for servos
If all the servos on the plane are digital, you can increase the servo refresh rate on the outputs page. But you will need to check with the servo manufacturer for the maximum supported refresh rate. Also, if all your servos support it, you could up the power to 6v, which will give the servos more speed and torque.
If the pan servo is jittery, maybe it's overloaded? If you just have a regular FPV camera on the servo, there should be no problem with regular 9g servos; even split cams and the like should be fine. But if you have action cams on there, it may be too heavy for the servo to turn smoothly. Another thing that could cause jitters is how you're controlling the pan. Sometimes the sliders or head tracker aren't that smooth. So adding a little slow to the mix can make things work better.
Just flight you airplane just with a receiver, and then when you happy how is flying do this in Inav, but you have from the get go a plane that is flying stock, the way you like. Nice video.
I’m far too lazy for that. I just set it up with iNav and use manual 🤣 But yes. If it flies well without a flight controller, it will be the best setup.
Why signal servo3 (left wing) and servo4 (right wing) not out put from FC Inav?
I am setting up an AR Pro..I do not have equal throw. The up elevon has more than down. The elevon horn only has one hole, and I am in the top hole of the servo horn. Should I equal it out by moving servo horn on servo to get equal, then adjust pushrod length?
That is differential. It is caused by the geometry of the linkage. For equal throw, the servo horn should be 90 degrees to the control rod. To change it, you need to rotate the servo horn on it’s spline. A little bit of differential is fine. It can even help in the turns. But, you would want more up than down.
czcams.com/video/tGRDZzaerOE/video.html
I'm trying to get my zoid dart xl trimmed out and somewhat confused on inav servo autotrim, I setup the control surfaces according to manufacturer and both elevons perfectly flush with fuselage mid position in inav 6.1.1 1500, after maiden flight which went great the servo autotrim has now set one elevon to 1306 and other 1366 but flys great, neither control surface is flush at this point, so should i mechanically adjust them back to the flush position when servos in neutral position? Sorry for long post and thanks in advance
No. Pin them where they are. Remove the control rod. Then set the midpoints back to 1500. Then adjust the control rod to go back in the hole. Finally remove the pins. Your dart cl setup probably needs reflex to keep it flying level. Maybe it’s normal, maybe it’s nose heavy. A dive test would confirm CG.
Without your channel I would be in trouble when it comes to inav Thanks, so today I will pin elevons in place with servos in neutral position, adjust control rods to go back in same holes and then set mid points back to 1500, It seems to me the control surfaces will never be flush with fuselage after that but will see, maybe they don't need to be flush not sure? I fly with continuous servo autotrim on so will see what happens next but man this thing is smooth as silk will never go back to ar wing pro. Thanks for all you do for this hobby
I'm setting up a vtail plane for first time a zohd talon rebel gt and have a question please, the manuel says 8 to 10mm throws on control surfaces. I have control surfaces flush at 1500 in output page the thing is to get 10mm throws i have elevons down to 43% and elevators down to 50% is this normal or I'm missing something here? As always thanks
can you link a video so i can conifgure my tx16s to fly my arwing on inav my controler are all wrong
I think you’ve found that video, as I’ve just replied to to on it. This video should explain the throws.
@@MrD I found a video from Paweł Spychalski and i found out why. czcams.com/video/o2RwTeBbvos/video.html
@@MrD question ? can i do auto launch and auto tune/ trim on inav 4.1.0 at the same time for a maiden .
No, autotrim will not allow you to arm if it’s enabled. Best to get up in the air, then set about tuning and trimming.
i tried to do auto launch today and it did not have enough throttle and it landed as soon as i threw it and the motor didnt stop and it burnt up i could not get to the controller in time on the ground next to me... now im trying to get them to send me a new motor under warranty with getfpv....i also bought one off ebay for 20 bucks so i have one coming soon sunnysky 1400kv. I did raise the auto launch throttle so now it will have the throttle power it needs to take off
You should check out my autolaunch video. That explains all the settings, and how to set it up for your individual model. czcams.com/video/rj_RSrXqib8/video.html
@@MrD I did
How did you get the throttle value in that case? The 1:1 hover test should give enough thrust. And the estimation tool over estimates in most cases.
can you help me setup flap for inav 5.1?
Sure. Just check out this video czcams.com/video/qY1TwINNX6c/video.html
shouldn't you have the aileron ca 2 mm. up, and not flat to the surface?
Not looking at the wing. It has reflex built in to the profile of the wing, so it shouldn't need any extra on the elevon.
@@MrD maybe stupid question but what is built in reflex?
If you look at the wing from the side that glues in to the fuselage. You can see that the back part curves upwards slightly. That is built in reflex.
@@MrD thanks, even on a Saturday I learn something new.
You just saved my heewing f01 from a failed Maiden! Thank you Darren!
Was all this done while in Manual mode?
Yes, you always set up the throws in manual. Glad I could help Glen :)
@@MrD , I always wondered about this... When switching to manual mode...shouldnt I dial rates in or expo. (as Inav + FC in manual mode has no in put) lol the whole time for year's I been flying I have just left manual mode alone and never knew 🤔 this had to be done. I really appreciate it mate!
Hi @@glenharto9699, manual already has expo (Manual Expo on the receiver page). I’ve never used traditional rates in INAV. There are two ways of achieving it, both in INAV. You should not set rates or expo on the transmitter.
@@MrD good morning Mr D My Maiden was a success.Thank you! It seemed a little slow. No idea how to program the esc that came with it maybe a throttle calibration needed. And I will up grade the control linkages (way to sloppy) I love FPV and Fixed wing flying and I really appreciate your help 🆘 as an Australian 🇦🇺 living in the USA now for two years I want to say....you're a bloody legend mate!
Thanks Glen. Glad the maiden went well. I’m sure the ESC that comes with it can use DSHOT 150 for the protocol. If so, you don’t need to calibrate it. By slow, I’m assuming speed and not rotational movement? The rotational will be sorted once the plane has been autotuned (in acro).
13:17 if the weight needs to add up to 100 for each servo, why is only one of the roll weights negative?
Because for roll (or pitch on a vtail) one servo has to move the opposite way. If the negative wasn’t there, you wouldn’t get the correct movement. But, for the totalling to 100%, just take all values as absolute; i.e. imagine they’re all positive.
@@MrD I think you mean yaw on a vtail?
@@MrD ah I get it. You’re right, pitch on a vtail. You’re basically reversing a reversed servo by adding the negative making it move in the correct direction
@@STEDDiEFPV no, with yaw the servos tend to move the same way. With pitch they need to move opposite ways. It depends on the servo fitment on particular models. But all that I’ve seen need to rotate the servos opposite directions for pitch.
The default mixer on INAV for vtails is wierd. It has negative values for 3 surfaces in the mixer. When it should only need to have one negative.
@@MrD oh really? I thought for pitch on a vtail they move on the same direction (control surfaces move in the same direction) and opposite direction for yaw
Dear sir, first of all I apologize for the off topic.
I have on Matek 411 SE the iNave 5.0.
I have a question about the auto trim done for the first time.
When I tried to do the auto trim, my C1 chaser, it was puchar too much to the right side.
I launched my wing in manual mode, and when I used the auto trime switch it was so hard for me, to fly a few seconds stright, I had to resort to the trims of the radio so as not to fall to the ground!
I know I shouldn't touch the radio trimes.
But with this imbalance, how is it possible for me to do the auto trim without sticking myself on the floor?
I know I'm using an outdated version, but since I've come this far I'd like to successfully complete my first model with iNav!
Can you give me any suggestions?
Greetings
Vítor
Hi Vitor. If you have trimmed it on the transmitter, just remember to stay in manual. Once you're happy with the trim, stay in manual and land. Leave everything turned on. Then, you should put thin pins in the control surface to hold them in place. With the C1, you should be able to pin between the elevon and the wing. Once pinned, remove the clevis from both control horns. Then set the trims on the transmitter back to zero. Then adjust the length of the control rods so that you can put them back in the same hole on the control horn with ease. Then remove the pins. After that, you should have a pretty well trimmed plane and the auto-tune will only need to make fine adjustments.
To be honest, that's how I trim my planes. Trim in manual on the transmitter, land, physically adjust the linkages, and fly. Using iNav 4.0, I don't bother with the auto trim mode. I just have it permanently enabled. That seems to work the best for me.
All the best, and I hope the next flight is much better for you.
@@MrD
Very grateful for the honest answer.
I was thinking that I had done something wrong, because the biggest youtubers who address this issue, do not refer to this physical adjustment leaving the idea that auto trim completely solves the initial imbalance of the model!
What about the auto tune, after its physical adjustment followed by auto trim, do act according to what is diffused on the network?
Auto-trim is good. But, even with auto-trim; it is recommended to mechanically adjust the control linkages if the mid point falls outside of the 1450 to 1550 range, then re do the auto-trim. I just find trimming manually first works better for me. Then auto-trim just fine tunes. The main reason people say not to trim with the transmitter is if you switch to any flight mode other than manual, it will cause problems.
Once it's trimmed and flying well in manual. That's when you should perform the autotune. Which version of iNav are you using? You said 5.0. I guess it was a key slip from 4.0?
@@MrD Sorry for my mistake wanted, the version I'm using is 2.5.0, so it's correct.
I haven't put a newer version yet because I had everything prepared with iNav 2.5.0 and followed the videos with this version.
@@vitorhugolalanda1978 no problem. Though if you’ve not tuned anything yet. I would recommend updating to iNav 4.0. The tuning side is much better. I don’t have a how to update video yet. But my friend Marc has a great video. I will get the link for you.
you should not mess with the surfaces it has a a flight controller leave them flat and just take off in manual mode and just use your thumb to give trim up and then auto tune and it will fix that in flight
I'm not sure what you're talking about here? You should always set the throws, flight controller or not. If you're referring to reflex, that should also be set up physically. Also, with iNav, you should not use transmitter trims.
@@MrD with I navi you don't need to put up trim on your controller or plane it will doit in autotune
To an extent, yes. But if the autotrim is outside the range of 1450-1550 on the outputs page, you should adjust physically.
@@MrD i think the new inav saved my autotune even tho i crashed my feedforward has changed even tho i didnt get to save because a hard landing poped my battery out......
@@staydown.normal5323 if you have continuous servo trim and disarmed before crashing, that is a possibility.