Adding Flaps in iNav. Plus Crow (Butterfly) braking, Flaperons, Spoilerons, and Full-Span Ailerons
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- In this video we look at adding flaps, crow aka butterfly brakes, flaperons, spoilerons, and/or full-span ailerons to your iNav mixer. There is a "Has flaps" option on the mixer page, but what does that actually do? We learn about all of this. Don't forget, there is also an accompanying article on my web site at www.mrd-rc.com/tutorials-tool...
** In this video **
- FrSky Horus X10S Express bit.ly/MrD_3l7b8K5
- Matek F405-WING bit.ly/MrD_2sxgQLT
** Contents **
00:00 Introduction
01:55 What does the "Has flaps" options in iNav do?
04:47 A couple of points relevant to all these functions
06:24 Setting up our transmitter to work with flaps, crow, flaperons, and/or spoilerons
11:37 What are flaperons, and when are they used?
13:13 Adding flaperons in iNav
15:05 Is our switch working the right way?
15:37 Are the flaperons working in the right way, and how can they be tuned?
16:52 What are spoilerons, and when are they used?
17:56 Adding spoilerons in iNav, and how to tune them
19:58 A note about the following examples.
20:33 What are flaps, and when are they used?
20:55 Adding flaps in iNav
22:12 Are the flaps working correctly?
23:54 What is crow braking, and when is it used?
24:25 Adding crow braking in iNav
27:08 Is crow working correctly?
28:13 What are full-span ailerons?
29:13 Adding full-span ailerons in iNav
30:12 Is full-span ailerons working?
30:57 Adding a switch to disable full-span ailerons
32:14 Using a switch to use multiple flap functions
35:25 Conclusion
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Thank you for your time, and don't forget to fly it like you stole it! - Jak na to + styl
So here's what I did in 6.1....In the mixer I added a channel 5 and changed the number to 2 and set it to "Flaperon mode", and then added a channel 6 and changed that from 6 to 3, so that each aileron has a corresponding flaperon channel...then...the Flaperon mode worked except the flaperons moved in opposite directions....so I changed one of these flaperons on the mixer from 100 movement to -100 and voila it's happy now. I realize there aren't a lot of gents like me who fly traditional fixed wing, but I really needed flaps for my 64" chipmunk to slow it down when landing without wind. There may be a better way to do this, but "simple" is not what I'd call it. It has been a real blast flying my larger planes with FPV, usually with the cam on the tail, and take off and landings are a big part of the fun. With the new GPS and the great INAV system, you can really count on the numbers (height and speed) you get in real time and that makes all the difference in landing. I'm sorry more fixed wing guys don't try landing on wheels. So far much better than LOS and we're talking manual not using INAV's auto landing (still haven't had the guts to try this yet). Sorry for all the verbiage, but I was at my wits end and I thought I'd share my travails. Thanks again Darren.
Excellent explanation, thank you very much!
You’re welcome Julio.
Thanks Darren, excellent video!!!
Glad you enjoyed it 👍🏻
really good video...all you need for the subject
Thank you. I’m glad the videos are helpful 👍🏻
I want to thank you for all your hard work. If not for your CZcams channel, I would be lost!
Thank you. I'm glad you find the videos helpful.
I've got this working on the rebel gt same as your video, I haven't flew it yet but when flaperons are deployed I don't have much up on either elevons ill give it a try with the 80% weight and see what happens don't seem like there will be enough roll control to keep it straight but will see. Thanks again
Just getting into iNav and setting up a Timber X and this is exactly what I needed - thanks!
Glad I could help 👍🏻
Thanks for investing the time in creating this very informative video on the iNav Mixer. Now I have a better grasp as to what I can program on my fixed-wing models. Genius teaching aid you built to show servo function as well... Great stuff!
Thank you. That little demo plane is worth 100x its weight in gold. It’s made showing the servo movements so much easier for me; and I’m glad that it helps in the video too.
OMG... I need this. Awesome, Darren! Thanks
You’re welcome Silvio. I saw quite a few questions about this in the group. Hopefully this answers a few of them.
Thanks Darren, and congratulations on an excellent video. I can see that you put a great amount of effort into this. Great stuff 👍
Thanks again 👍🏻 I really appreciate it. Yeah, it does take time to do this, but it’s worth it if it helps other RC pilots.
Very good video Darren! Learned a lot about INAV capabilities in it.
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Excellent video! I have learned a lot from these tutorial. Thank you Mr.D
You’re welcome. I’m glad the videos have helped.
thanks for the help followed your advice for flaperons it worked. On the curve changed direction in hardware left slider reversed
Thank you so much for this video.
You’re welcome Chucky. Glad it was helpful.
Excellent vid, the best inav guides easily hands down. Your knowledge is appreciated. Thx
Thanks for the kind comments. I’m glad the videos help.
Great video Darren, Thank You
Thanks Stephen. I’m glad it was helpful.
Thanks Darren. I just added flaps to my FT Twin Explorer (still on iNav 2.5.1)! Your instructions are just want I needed. I did add a value of 2.8 to the "Slow Up" and "Slow Down" values of the Mix which adds a nice gradual deployment of the flaps when using a switch. Of course I just added sounds via special functions from my custom sound pack thanks to you also!
Thanks again for all your excellent work!!
Awesome A.C. From what I remember, the flaps settings should work in any version of iNav with the programming. Those slow functions make for a nice deployment too.
Thank you so much0 this is a great video and can't wait to try it out on my next model. Commenting so that the algorithms pick this up and share as much as possible.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Just used this on my new build Darren,your a God sent my friend,again thankyou for your videos so please tell to watch and a few laughs as well at the start.
Thanks Mark. Glad it helped 👍🏻
Fantastic resource material, thanks very much
You’re welcome Peter. I’m glad it helps.
Hey great explanation video, I've just tried to do it exactly you showed but it didn't worked as I was expecting, then I tried with the Inav option for flaperons and it worked correctly, now I just need to test it but I've learned a lot with your videos, thanks Darren have a nice flight l..l,
Good explanations! thank you!
You’re welcome Mat 👍🏻
Big thanks for this video, time to update my inav in my Ranger 2000. I have flaps on a 3 position switch now but I don't have the crow setup and sometimes you need to land a little faster! Thanks Darren
You’re welcome Ryan.
wow this is what im looking for. thank you my brother.
You’re welcome Endy. I’m glad it was helpful.
Very helpful 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you Andrew.
It's been awhile since I have commented, but great video Mr D, I know flaperons and crow. Not so much full span ailerons. Saved tom my useful inav play list. Full house coming up on my Ranger 2000 with awesome Inav 3. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Kevin. I think if you have all the surfaces, its rude not to use them 🤣 My ranger was on Vector, but I got crow working with that. Definitely makes landing easier.
Thanks for the video... now I know I want crow braking!
Crow braking is awesome. There are some days on the slope where its a necessity.
Just awesome, thanks
Thanks Dorel 👍🏻
Here's what the documentation says:
"Activating it moves both ailerons down (or up) by predefined offset.
Configuration besides activating FLAPERON mode is pretty simple, and consists of just one CLI variable:
flaperon_throw_offset defines throw range in us for both ailerons that will be applied when FLAPERON mode is activated. By default it 250 with max at 400.
Flaperon offset is by default is applied as a servo mixer input with ID=14 so using custom servo mixing you can configure FLAPERON mode to deflect any servos you need (including dedicated flaps)."
Simple? Huh? I set a 5th channel to "flaperon mode" set the CLI command as instructed and set a dedicated slider (channel 6) to Flaperon mode on the MODES page. I didn't expect it work and it didn't, but I don't know what else to do.
Thanks again for all the great work you do!!!
Where is this documentation? It looks outdated. You will need to add flaperon lines to the mixer, on the same servo indexes as the ailerons.
Hey man thanks for the videos think I’ve watched all your vids Twice. New to fpv so been a huge help couldn’t of done it with out you .
Thank you Aaron. I’m glad I could help and I hope that your flights go well. What are you flying first?
Volantex ranger ex 757-3
Nice. That’s a pretty stable platform. You should have some great flights with that.
Man, I’ve been meaning to work out crow braking for a while now so I can slow my wing down, just have had too many things going on to dig into it. Thanks for this, probably saved me a bunch of time.
So, now having watched it all, I see it pretty much works how I suspected it would. Kinda happy that I’m comfortable enough with iNav to think to myself “How would I approach this problem?” and be able to work through it logically in my head and be mostly right! But anyway.
Too bad you can’t do “NOT Logic Condition 0”, it would allow you to eliminate two lines in the mixer since the flap servos do the same thing in both flap and crow mode. I guess you could do that with a fourth logic condition, but then, six of one, half dozen of the other right?
The not having the NOT option is a bit of a pain. But, the flap lines for flaps and crow are slightly different, as one is 100%, the other is 80%. But yeah, if they were ok both being 100%, it would work great with NOT LC0. You could set up a Logic Condition to do that. But I think that you’re more likely to run out of LCs than mixer lines.
@@MrD oh yeah forgot you set them to 80%. Like I said it probably doesn’t change much one way or the other.
No, but I still agree, having nots for Logic Conditions would be very useful.
Thank you!
You’re welcome 👍🏻
You brilliant soab !
🤣🤣🤣 Gliders are boring
Great video Darren. Looks like I will have to start using my 7 position switch more. Need crow badly on my Phoenix.
Thanks Sam. They do like to stay up. It’s rare I don’t need crow to get my Phoenix 2000 down, on the slopes.
@@MrD Questions. Is there anyway to set up a switch to turn on the crow mix without affecting my flaps at all? My flaps are on RC Channel 5. Opentx boggles my mind. Have to do everything within the radio as I'm maxed out channel wise with crossfire, they need more than 12, miss the 16 of R9.
Not really. The flaps and crow have to operate together. To be honest, with the Phoenix, you don’t really need flaps alone. Mine will pretty much just fly out my hand. But crow for landing is much more useful. So if you’re channel limited, I would personally just set up Crow (ailerons up, flaps down).
But yeah, I agree. Crossfire only having 12 channels is a pain in the arse.
Thanks for your in depth explanation. When I deploy my flaps my nose is going down because the center of pressure of the wing is shifted backwards. So my question is if it is possible to change my elevator midpoint also with the flapswitch to compensate for that effect and keep the nose straight?
I'm going to give this a try using your video, I just build my first vtail a talon rebel gt but man this thing is faster than I'm used to and doesn't want to land. So if I understand this I can still use the elevons for roll even though they will be deflected down I may even try the rudder during landing, I assume the setup in video will be the same for a vtail? Thanks for all you do
May i know wht type of rc aircraft that use flap/flaperon and spoiler/spoileron use aircraft? Can we use y split for 1 aileron/flap output?
Thenks.agains
You’re welcome 👍🏻
Mr. Darren, I love the content you provide. Thank you
I'm trying to set up flaperon in inav 5.0 but there's no option for flaps in mixer and mods 😢
There was a bug when mixers were loaded in a certain way. If you just load the airplane mixer (not load and apply). Then save and reboot, the options will be there. This is fixed in 6.0.
But, following this video. You don’t need to use that at all. You’ll actually get a more controllable flaperon by not using that method.
@Mr.D - Falling with style
Dear Mr. Darren, I am thankful for your reply. I appreciate your support.
Actually, I'm facing another problem in voltage reading. I am running Matek f411 WTE with inav 5.1
Voltage reading always =0 even I have flash it in the right target and voltage scale as fc instructions.
Hello Darren, you helped me a lot with this vdeo. In the new Inav 5.1 the 'has flaps' option is removed. I did it like you did it, works perfectly. But now i have a little issue, i will explain.
I use ch12 on my tx, it is a 3way switch. On top is NOTHING, in the middle is FLAPS... and... my MANUAL flightmode is also on that switch, BOTTOM position... but now i think you already know what's the issue.... When i set my switch to MANUAL the flaps are switched to spoilerons .... and no, that not what i want during manual flight... a bit difficult to fly whahaha...
I can imagine that there is a way to do it, so that the 'spoileron' issue while use MANUAL is solved....
I think on the tab 'programming' but i do not exactly know what to do there, and how to do it..
Maybe you can help me with this? Maybe a link to a video where something is explained..?? But, i think you are a smart man who can help me!! -:)
So i want the flaps are only working in the MIDDLE postion of the switch..
I need some help, tnx!
The has flaps switch had been removed. But the system is still there and works as before. All that switch did was enable the flaperon mode in the modes tab. This is now automatic, so no need for the switch. You can add the flaperons mix to the mixer, and use the mode as normal.
It sounds like you are using the switch as an RC input in the mixer. This won’t work, as you are trying to use the switch to control a surface and a mode. The simplest option would be in the mixer, don’t use RC Channel 12 for your flaperon source, use the flaperon option in the list. Then in the modes page, set the flaperon mode when your switch is in the correct position.
Hi Darren, Seems INAV 6.1 no longer has the flaps button - all you can do is add a "flaperons mode" mix (5th channel?) and I can't get that to work. Haven't found anything on CZcams or in the documentation that addresses this. Thanks!
The *Use Flaps* toggle was removed in INAV 4.1. Because basically, all it did was show or hide the flaperons mode on the modes page. This is now automatic based on the mixer type chosen. Any fixed wing that isn't an elevon setup and has more than 1 aileron servo, shows the flaperons mode. If you want to use it, all you need to do is select an appropriate mixer for your aircraft, add a switch for the flaperons mode, then add the mixer lines for the flaperons. I believe there is also stuff to set up in CLI too. To be honest, I never used this system. It was always too restrictive to me. I always set it up like in this video.
github.com/iNavFlight/inav-configurator/pull/1423
Hi, really nice video. But I miss something... why not use the build in flap function? Maybe I have skipped a explanation on the beginning?
Because the built in flap function is not for flaps. It is for flaperons. Also, it is very limited.
I'm having an issue: when I deploy my flaps during flight to start the landing procedure the newly generated lift from the flaps makes the plane go completely nose up. How can i combat this so when i deploy flaps the plane stays level?
This was such a great video! I really appreciate your time. When i set my f405 to stabilized roll I feel like i'm not getting the same amount of throw as regular RC Input. Can the % value go over 100?
Which version of iNav are you using?
@@MrD 3.01 When I power on I get full movement on the yaw and then it goes into stab mode or something and limits the movement.
@@KAREKINFPV have you performed an autotune yet?
Thank you Darren! One Question: If my Spoilers need some Elevator correction, shall I put it in the mixer, or just leave it to autotrim?
You’re best off adding elevator compensation in the iNav mixer.
Wondering what is the best approach, set negative value in mixer or flick the revert servo switch in the output tab?
It depends on the situation. For ailerons and control surfaces with multiple functions (elevons, ruddervators, etc) I will tend to reverse one in the mixer. Then use the outputs to get all movement correct. Both ways should have the same results.
Nice vid! I always wanted to play with flaps but never had an actual reason. My full-size SkyHunter I suppose could theoretically use flaperons but Ive been warned against it from other SH flyers. It gets into SERIOUS ground effect while landing and floats forever. Maybe I could add crow function or some kind of airbrake for shorter landings.
Crow needs a physical flaps control surface. If the SH floats on forever, and only has ailerons on the wings; spoilerons are what you should try.
@@MrD Right. I figured I could split the current ailerons, add the servos then id have the extra control surfaces. Alot of options though.
Sounds like there is a lot of scope with that plane. I’d try the spoilerons first. As if that’s enough, you’ve not had to modify anything.
Excellent vid as usual! I just setup crow slightly different since my flap servo user 100% of the travel. So flap servo straight from CH6 then I had to add aileron up + elev. down via GVAR. works great except the time delay (want flaps to move slowly) only works on direct. Any rudder mixed via GV gets the delay only the first time extending and from then on they jump whilst the flaps slowly move up or down (inav 4.0) any ideas grand master? bug or per design? cheers mate
I think I’ve seen the jump thing before when using GVARs for servo outputs. But it’s been a while. There may be a way to set it up a different way, but I need to have a test.
@@MrD cheers mate - no rush! but its just not "clean" and nice
Hi Darren, in 4.1 there's no more flaps in the settings how to set up flaps in inav 4.1?
The flaps setting was never for flaps anyway. All the "flap" switch did was enable or disable the Flaperon mode on the modes page. This is now automatic. Those flaperons can still be added to the mixer as before.
This video shows how I would set up flaps, flaperons, or spoilerons. The old flap switch was never used in this video. I even say that it is bad.
Great video Darren! There is one thing I missed, how to use a three-position switch when takeoff flaps are not in the middle between flaps up and full flaps. Could you please give me (and hopefully more newbees) that procedure in detail?
I think I've solved it by using a 3 point curve with 25% in the middle.
But another issue. How will the autotrim permanently on influence the flaperons? I once crashed because I've routed the flaps to servo 5. Powel then told me that the autotrim (in ver 2.6) worked on every servo from 2 till 5.
Yes, the 3 point curve would be what I’d suggest here.
That is a good question about autotrim. I will chat with Alex. As far as I know, it only works on the 4 stabilised inputs, and when no deflection is commanded. The same servo is being commanded as used by the ailerons, but not by the aileron input. I will find out.
I’ve spoken with Alex, and adding flaps, flaperons, or spoilerons would effect the trim if you have continuous autotrim enabled. Therefore, it would need to be setup with elevator compensation, which would negate the trimming. I’ll be adding some details to the article on this shortly.
Hello, how do you set the flaperon in Inav 6? Thank you
It is the same as shown in this video.
If your Ailerons are on a Y cable do you have to remove the Y cable and put them on their own servo for the Crow braking to work? I have the Ranger 2000. It is the first plane I bought that has both rudder and flaps. I go the flaps working correctly, but when I tried to add the crow break, the left aileron moves in the same direction (down) as the flap.
Yes, crow needs both ailerons on individual control inputs. If not, they will only ever work in opposite directions.
@@MrD Thanks. Lesson learned. To be honest when I bought the plane I did not know what the flaps were for, just that they were optional, not to mention what crow braking was.
No problem at all. Any day we learn something new is a good day 👍🏻
Hello Darren, i want to add flaperons on my Heewing T1 and it seems like now its in modes and can set it on a switch. Can you explain how it works? when i activate it 1 eleron goes up and the other goes down. Can you explain how to set it ? or remake this video for new inav's ?Thanks in advance and i really appriciate your help! Happy new year and enjoy your new pc :D
To be honest, I'm not a fan of the flaperon mode switch. It doesn't give me as much control as I'd like, and is only a single position. In the mixer, there should be a weight on the flaperon line. The flaperon that is moving up instead of down, add a - in front of the weight. That should get them moving in the right direction.
Will this work with Spektrum ix12
So long as it can be set up to perform the same tasks, it should work. I have no experience with that transmitter.
Do we use y cables for flaps or separate servos for each flap? I’m working on a Phoenix 2400 motor glider
The Volantex 2400 came with Y cables for both ailerons and flaps. But my understanding is we should set both of these surfaces on its own servo. Please help. Also having issues with rods and setting up the flap servos. Need some advice on this.
It depends what you want out of it. Personally, I set my Phoenix 2000 up with separate servo cables for each aileron and flap. This give the freedom to have flaps, crow braking, and full span ailerons. Minimum, I would have separate cables to both ailerons, and a Y cable to the flaps, if you are short on PWM outputs. With that you can still have flaps and crow, but not the full span ailerons.
@@MrD I’m going to use separate servos for both ailerons and flaps. Think that would suit me better
How to setup flap initially with the pushrods is what's confusing me. Do I set them up like I do Ailerons in neutral? Or do I set the horn differently. Like I said I've NEVER used flaps
It depends on if you want full span ailerons or not. Or at least the option to add them in the future. If you do, then set the flaps up as you would ailerons. You will need to check out the movement first. I can't remember if I needed to cut foam away on my Phoenix 2000 to allow the flaps to physically move up.
However, if you're only ever going to use flaps or crow braking. You can set them up as pure flaps. So the servo at one end of the range is flaps up, and at the other end of the range is flaps down.
Does this still work in iNav 7.1? I can't seem to get it to work - I set my right slider to channel 14 and added 2 mixer rules matching the servos for right and left ailerons. After reboot, it moving the right slider doesn't do anything. Weird.
Yes, it should still work in INAV 7.1
Is this video still valid with 7.0?
Yes. There may be some parts with slightly different names now. But the technique will still work.