AERO HELMET vs ROAD HELMET (This Shocked Me!)
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 08. 2020
- When beginner triathletes start buying bike equipment they have a lot of expensive purchases to make, so in this test we wanted to figure out if an aero tri helmet was worth it over a normal road helmet or a road aero helmet. We tested the Lazer Bullet 2.0 aero helmet, against the Lazer Z1 Road Helmet, against the Lazer Wasp Air Tri.
Trainiac Gear: gear.triathlontaren.com
Subscribe to Triathlon Taren: / @triathlontaren
View the Best of Triathlon Taren: • Video - Sport
Here’s a video on visor vs sunglasses on helmets. Dig it czcams.com/video/oezrXq1YQ-c/video.html
Where can I buy the road helmet with the cover. Especially the cover
I have doubts. Repeat the test multiple times, start calculating some standard deviations, and see what calculations can be drawn...
He as a terrible Position with the Tri helmet you can see the tail of the helmet inches above his back.
Super interesting!
However, in my humble opinion (I’m no expert), there are 3 reasons your tri helmet isn’t very aero:
1. The helmet isn’t the most aero, with straight edges at the tail.
2. The helmet ends about 3” inches above your back in you normal position, creating vortexes, creating drag.
2. You look a lot at your power/wheel/pedals, putting the tail up in the air as sort of a sail; actually slowing you down.
You’re better off with a “stubby” tri helmet, like a Kask bambino pro, POC, Smith, Giro, or keeping with Lazer, the Victor.
Your tail on the aero helmet was sticking up when you look down, which by the shots shown was happening from time to time,so you get a sail effect. Newer short tail aero helmet are more curved at the back to avoid this. Kinda like your aero road helmet. It was visible how the tail was not popping up on that one when you looked down.
The first thing I noticed was you aero helmet was stuck up at the back like an air brake
Aero helmet, long tail and maintaining correct position will always be faster.
I agree Frank. You got to hold that good position. I would stick a wash cloth between my head and the helmet, a little older Giro, and it helps get that tilt, so the tail of the helmet gets closer to my back.
I can't see Taren in his current position benefiting from a long tail, unless your saying he change position?
Or at least find a aero helmet that matches your position
@@Mike0 In the simplest terms when you introduce a gap between the back of the helmet and your back you break the boundary layer causing the air to separate. Not to get into too much aero dynamic theory it's not a good thing.
I agree. Would you suggest the more movement during a race the long tail may be a hinderance?
Another important aspect is ventilation. I just replaced my Aero helmet with a more open Road helmet. Much more comfy when I climb in the mountains.
Henrik Nord interesting point, currently looking at Kask Utopia for that reason.
Climbing and aero are two different kettles of fish.
When last did you see a hill climb event where the riders only used TT bikes?
Its like saying that running 100m in flippers is slower than running shoes. Both were designed to be used in specific use cases.
Z1 with the aeroshell seems the absolute best deal....period. You get the best of both worlds: heavily vented helmet for training and general riding and then simply slap on the aeroshell when it's time to go against the clock. Not seeing why you'd spend more on either of the other 2 helmets which are really only good for going against the clock. My Z1 with aeroshell was well under 200 bucks. I got a second aeroshell and put in a couple small holes in the front to be a middle ground between full air flow and full aero. It works great in the winter when I want a little bit of ventilation, but not the full blast of super cold air. Basically, I have now 3 helmets in one.
Good stuff. Thanks Taren.
Awesome video!!! I would not have expected these results. Obviously, wind conditions can change, a car passing can add turbulence, small body position changes, etc etc. But still having some data in these videos is fantastic! 👌
Giro vanquish is where it’s at. Through the visor on for a short tail aero helmet. Take it off for an aero road helmet
Buy a road helmet, stick a swimming cap over it. Problem solved.
Oh, you're giving me ideas...
The key to being competitive is finding multiple areas of marginal gains, helmet, shoes, chain, body position, skin suit etc. Then you add up all the watts you save and it can amount to a truly significant amount.
From the fact that the tri helmet was not the fastest helmet I can only conclude that this helmet is not suitable for your position on the bike. You tend to look down, which reduces frontal area on a road helmet, but drastically increases it with the tri helmet. With this helmet, you want the tail to blend into your back, which can be trained, but can still remain an uncomfortable position, especially over longer distances. With your head down, the fastest is most probably not wearing a helmet at all. If you insist on wearing one because you are a sane person, and race rules require you to do so, you're best off with either an aero road helmet, a more forgiving short tail TT helmet, such as the kask Bambino, or a track sprinter's helmet (combination of good aerodynamics and forgiving to looking around). The fastest will always be the long tail helmet, but only in combination with the correct position.
Although aerodynamics engineering in cycling is littered with marketing BS (you won't be able to verify their claims anyways), the engineers are not that bad that helmets optimized for TT/tri are not the best pick for it. If the Lazer bullet was the fastest Lazer helmet, their pro cycling teams would use it in the time trials instead of TT helmets.
I just use a standard road helmets. There's a lot of improvements I can make on the engine before going to high tech equipment. Also I don't want to spend $200 on a helmet I'm going to wear ten times in a season.
Great video ! But it needs a few other considerations that doesn’t involve only absolute numbers. 1) An aero road helmet needs to be ventilated enough so that you don’t overheat from just using it. I decided to get the Mavic Comet Ultimate for that reason because it’s so well designed that I felt I was almost bare headed when I tested it. 2) To reap the benefits from a long tail helmet you need to have your head looking in front of you so that the helmet itself stays attached to your back. If you look down, it’ll act as an aero brake, completely defeating the purpose. Over the course of an Ironman it might not be the most comfortable option, so it’s probably best used on middle distance triathlons. Running with a sore neck isn’t fun. What these 2 points are hinting at is that comfort is paramount over the course of such a long distance event. So yeah for these reasons I agree an aero road helmet is the best choice provided it’s well ventilated
Covered most of the ventilation slots with duct tape on my road helmet to improve drag. Went well, until a hot day where I came home dizzy from overheating. May try it again, but with added flaps for easily removing the tape while on the bike, as needed.
Great video - thank you
Good video! I think Taren pointed out many important points: the aero improvement delivered by a helmet depends on the person (shape, position, traveling speed). If an improvement is found, the extra cost is relatively low, e.g. compared to new set of wheels.
Maybe one remark to aero helmets: modern shapes are a bit shorter thus less sensitive to head movements. Stille you can sense for the tail to work on your head position. Also modern aero helmets have ducts and channels for ventilation - but they work only above certain speeds. So the type of bike leg (flat / hilly) should be considered as well.
The helmet cover, is it a standard size? How or where can I get it? Thanks for another amazing video Taren!!
Is there anyway you could find out if running with a backwards hat is faster than no hat?
Lazer is not generally the fastest aero helmet. That said, you want the tail to nest into your back. You appear to ride with the tail hanging out in the wind. So, Cd is good but A is bad.
I looked at his position and now I am wondering if the frame is waaaaaay to big for him. There is a considerable drop from seat to bars, but it would be ridiculously high to get his back straight. And then he would not reach the pedals anymore...
I think a smaller, shorter frame would be better for him. At least aerodynamically speaking.
For all those commenting on Taren riding with the tail off his back - I'd be willing to bet that's how a lottttt of people are riding (whether they realize it or not). His riding positions seemed extremely relevant to the average triathlete (at least what I've seen). Super relevant video.
Also, yes. Ventilation might be more important than the (mostly) marginal gains of an aero helmet for a lot of us. Especially considering you've got to run after!
Interesting stuff, Taren!! I almost think that having a helmet with the best breathability may be best for newer triathletes. I feel that overheating will cause people to lose more time than the aero benefits will give. Could be wrong.... Have a great Sunday!
All depends on condition.
If you're racing this and other easy gains like good tyres can really add up. Oakley Aro 5 is a good compromise at a reasonable price
Naughty, naughty Taren, I’m now looking at the Endura D2Z helmet!!!
Also, do not believe the marketing that claims a short tail helmet is relatively fast on everyone.
I am not a triathlete but a road cyclist/ time trialist and have done extensive testing, including visiting a wind tunnel earlier this year.
The fastest helmet on me is a MET Drone (wide body/ long tail), then interestingly an aero road helmet (Specialized Evade, 10Wslower at 45kph), and then the TT helmets that „work on everyone (Giro Aerohead 12W slower, Kask Bambino 13W slower). So for me, it’s better to choose a road helmet over the wrong TT helmet.
That is why the Bell Javelin is still very popular among timetrialist
Hi taren. How about tt bike vs road bike on a clip on bar on your next content?
Wind isn't constant all time. GCN made video where were compared helmets in watts saved. Where are high watts? 210w is low watts. High power maybe 350w?
Faster or not faster, is it not just a matter of.. do you save any Watts with different helmet... good watch... i'll be getting a road/ventilation helmet with cover... so have a combi hlm for hot/wet days :)
4:27 - well, isn't the long tail of the tri helmet supposed to be closing up with your back, for it to actually work properly, and when it is sticking up into the sky like that, then the long tail makes it perform very badly, from aerodynamic perspective?
I have a Giro Aerohead and the visor is BRILLIANT. I took it off (you can clip in to the helmet with magnets) when going up a 10%+ hill with the sun shining directly at me to cool down.
I put it back on immediately because the shield was actually blocking the sun from directly hitting my face. I swear it was cooler with the visor on. So for really sunny days it's actually not that bad!
Concerning bang for buck: as far as I know the helmet comes in second, after a really good suit. Me personally I would recommend a product from Denmark: FE226 Aerosuit. It's expensive but there is a lot of thought in the product. I own several products from fe226 and find myself using them over my Assos stuff whenever they are not in the washing machine. Some German magazine found as much as 10 watts (believe at 40km/h) compared to other suits.
P.S.:
Hey Taren, feeling better yet? I hope you got some rest and ditched all those supplements. I really hope you find some time to prepare some food yourself.
Take care and don't push yourself over the edge!
Bumped into Tarin on the road out of St. Adolphe. Enjoyed the ride, and yes folks, he is just as nice in person. Must be the "Friendly Manitoba" thing!
Haha, fun to have pals on the ride!
I feel like part of why compaines dont give out the numbers. is how hard it is to quantify. as things vary alot depending on head postion. then theres trying to test it in the real world where any number of variables can easily affect it enough to not be able to tell which is really the fastest. not to mention were talking that 2% at the 150 watts is only a difference in like 3 watts so not alot of room for human error there. it gets a litte higher at like 4 watts for 2% at 200. but still a very small number that could easily be influced by any number of things. its partily why the wind tunnle is really the only way to accuretly test how much drag something has.
Taren what is your cda?
I'm just here waiting for Cam Wurf response!
Sounds like a road helmet with an aero shell is a best bang for Buck a two in one 🤩
I think 300w is missing. Tri helmet should shine at this speed.
Aero wheels start making a difference above 40km/h, K would expect the same from an aero helmet.
Conclusion would be to gear up according to your ftp.
and an aero helmet with a long tail should be stuck to your back and not pointing to the sky
You know what would be a cool calculator for beginners, and a way to save $, is a calculator about certain upgrades and how much time you’d save. So an amateur could plug in their time and estimate how much faster they’d be if they would have had fancier gear. Almost like a handicap system in golf.
What was the actual power output in each case. I'll guarantee there was enough variability in power in each ride to account for the variability between each helmet. But yeah position and fit is critical.
yes, you want the average and normalised power to be the same, without using a lap average as you ride
Great video but can you add in you CdA data to make sense of the wattages you quote? As in I would assume a more “aerodynamic” cyclist might see less benefit vs a less “aero” athlete. Thanks again for sharing.
Really appreciate numbers for mere mortals like 150w. thanks
What about no helmet? Is no helmet faster or slower?
Need to consider that the trending of higher watts is moving the aero up front, 150w is not a real race effort, however it would be interesting to see this test with higher watts and better head position, so we can see a more realistic result. also consider short, long, hot, cold races since not all of them will be having the same constant effort.
Very informative video... you just got a new subscriper
I always believed that my Catlike Mixino wasn't any *worse* than my Bontrager Ballista in a local rolling 40k TT done Merckx style.
Lazer has data on Lazer Genesis vs Bullet 2.0 publicly available at multipel speeds(36, 43, 50 and ~58kph). Funnily enough visors are slower at pro TT speeds(50k+)
The testing here and data is all rubbish. But TT gets the conclusion spot on.
Möööötttiiiv method!! No more triathlon!!!! Möööötttiiìiiiv FTW!! 👌👍👍
Really well presented. I can tell you used to be a numbers guy. The conclusion re: different people and different positions is also key! You appear to be looking down when riding, and the tail of the tri helmet is pointing up, kind of? That's not how they're supposed to work. Therefore, like you said, some people will find them faster, some won't. Again, good work.
*laughs in air attack* Giro would like a word with everybody who "developed an aero road helmet" after they made that winner. numbers, aesthetics, and owner feedback not withstanding. Going simply with my own experience owning those helmets for years, they're an absolute win. When wind noise and buffeting is reduced to almost nothing, then that's you slipping right through the wind.
what about rounded skateboarding helmets? They seem pretty aero from how smooth they are.
They kind of look like modern army helmets/german nazi stalhelms.
They're like the tri helmets but have the neck aero guide portion chopped off.
How about a road helmet with a swim cap stretched over.
I saw another video, the Aeroroad helmet was not significantly faster than the standard road helmet. Those tails on TT helmets helmets will definitely slow you down if they are pointing upwards as in many of the clips in this video.
At these slow speeds, and and brief duration, I wouldn't expect meaningful results.But his conclusion that helmets are very personal and variable to the individual is echoed by many others. You can get sound conclusions from dubious research.
I think what you are saying with your data is that at low speeds with your position there is very little difference for all the helmets and any differences may be accounted by minor changes in each run. there is some improvement with the aero helmet at higher speeds but frankly your head position sticks the tail of that TT helmet into the air and the full gains cannot be achieved. From my limited knowledge of aerodynamics once you have separation between the surface and air like at the rear end of your TT helmet this is where turbulence and drag begins to amplify
Sorry but this test does not collect any data in any way to draw conclusions from.
a light confortable helmet is the best bet
aero always!!!
full aero helm just weird for me
no pedaling drag rolling tests are cheap and easy and they are more real then the wind tunnel...if you are not testing, your results are prolly placebo.
Taren says 40 minutes for average Sprint Triathlon bike. Well hot dog, I do the bike part of a Sprint Triathlon in about 37 minutes (flat course)... with standard wheels, and a standard road helmet.
for 150w or 210w?
because I can go faster if I do 300/350w average 🤷♂️
@@Mike0 believe it or not, I do not have a power meter for my bicycles. The last time I rode a trainer with a power meter on it was about 10 years ago, back then I averaged about about 205 watts. In some recent time trials I've done, I've only been able to average about 20 MPH for a 7 mile course, yeah I'm not a real great race shape this summer. So I'm guessing, I'm averaging like 175 watts right now. I tried finding a speed/weight to power calculator online, but I could not find one.
I just bought an aero tt helmet for ease of cleaning. That's all.
No more live chat?
😊
You could do a better job on the representation of the data on excel. Your header is "Time Slower...." and your data is "10.66". It would be better if it was "10:40"
36km/h with 210 w -- I need to see what's wrong with my bike.... I would need 270-280w for that speed
Taren went on a tri bike. Just by chance, I finished the bike leg a middle distance last year with avg. power of 207 W (215 NP) and an avg. speed of 37,4 kph (my power data, speed based on time and distance as provided by the race result, flat course with some bridges and a few technical sections). also using a tri bike. Helmet: Giro Vanquish (road aero helmet). So I consider Taren's power and speed data as realistic.
@@karstenmeinders4844 interesting .. what's your height/weight?
@@zikaperic2133: 190cm, 76 kg (sorry metric units). Maybe I should mention I have a tri suit that fits very tightly (maybe trisuit vs. bibshort/jersey can also be a topic for Taren).
The tri bike has 62 mm deep section wheels, tyre /inner tube was a relative bad combination (as they came from factory). Aerobar position was result of a bike fitting, not too aggressive. It was my 2nd race that season and on the bike. I have done some optimizations during the offseason but cannot compare any result because of Covid-19 this year.
On the (aero) road bike, under good circumstances (traffic, traffic lights, wind, ..) I manage 30 kph with 180 W average (
All this is just a moot point unless you are in it for prize money. Nothing is more silly looking than a FRED going into a tri with all the top stuff money can buy and finishes at the ass end of the race. Yes, peeps can spend their money on what they want, but at some point you have to wake up and put some realism of life into perspective.
Good thing I don't wear a helmet
The German roadbike magazine "roadbike" (yes its called like that) recently had a similar test with different brands... Lazer was by far the worst of them all so this comparison is comparing the worst with the worst
the GB track team uses Lazer helmets and I think they would not use a crappy helmet I am sure about that. I think its WAY more complicated than a simple comparison test. I think a riders position and body types and dynamic interacting with the helmet have a far greater influence than taking the helmet alone
@@paulmitchell7391 why not? If there would be "the one brand" in each category why isn't everybody using it? Simple : sponsoring! Lazer payed the best money that's why the gb team went for them... And the test im referring to was done scientifically in a windtunnel.. So it wasn't just a simple comparison
@@paulmitchell7391 so I just got out the magazine to look at the test again... So they tested 8 different brands... They were measuring at 45km/h, +-20° flow angle and the put the helmets on the same dummy for each test ...
Im not gonna list every brand, however the winner was specialized s works evade angi with a measured 267,1 watts... The Lazer bullet 2.0 was measured at 277,5 watts. So there is a 10 watt difference in the same category of helmets 🤷♂️
And in addition to that Lazer helmet was also by far the heaviest...
And you're absolutely right, body position is way more important than buying an aero helmet... But that wasn't the point of this video.
@@LPisg I understood the test was done in wind tunnel that was obvious, however like any wind tunnel test it was performed on one body shape in one position, aerodynamics is way more complicated than that. One helmet will work for one person and not for another. Are you sure Lazer payed the best money? GB cycling team would not use a brick of a helmet for payment as they are well funded by the lottery and have changed cycling forever in their pursuit of marginal gains.
@@paulmitchell7391 im not saying they are the worst helmet in the world... However compared to the top brands they have the worst windtunnel results... And you are correct, each body type is different and reacts different with helmets... But shouldn't each rider than have an individual Helmet? Why does an entire team have the same brand of helmet... I wonder if that has something to do with sponsoring?
And out of all teams riding in the tour de France there was only one using Lazer as their helmet...
Just out of pure interest... How did you decide what helmet to get? Since windtunnel test are apparently not relevant to you... Whatever brand your favorite rider is currently wearing?
lose a KG or 2, there's your saving
Just remember that aerodynamics are really specific to a person, your position on the bike etc, which is probably why helmet companies don't give out 'watts saved' kinda numbers. The point of a TT helmet is to "close the gap" between the head and the back, and as you can see there still a large gap in your example. Just look at the best TT guys like Rohan Dennis, Tom Dumoulin, Remco Evenepoel etc you can see what I mean
yes, but you don't need to completely close the gap to get most of the gains, that's why the Bambino and Poc Cerebel are popular. Fill most of the gap and leave a cleaner wake behind your head
Did you mean Tadej Pojacar, Filipo Ganna and Rigoberto Uran as the best ones right now ?
While you gave some good insights on your particular results, you should show us the graphs and averages of each ride. What was your actual average power, what was your normalized power, what was the wind speed? You are also not in shape at the moment and your position needs work. How often did you break aero position in the short ride?
This just tells me the Lazer helmets arent very aero. ;)
I think Tarens position is not optimal for this helmet
First lose some weight, get proper aero position on your bike and then compare AERO HELMET with others, bro
The Bullet historically tested really badly. It shows that Lazer helmets are terrible.
Yea, but we all wanna look legit
You use the term data far too loosely. You don’t have data, you have crappy numbers from conducting a crappy experiment. Your conclusions would have been just as accurate, which is to say, not at all, if you’d used a random number generator.
Making a video, then you at least please be accurate and detailed and at the very best show the analysis in scientific measurements. Your position, form and without being in a wind tunnel just does not cut the results. This is the problem you have nothing cementing you produce is proven. In Europe we go along with qualified and educated. Are you a certified wind tunnel specialist.
Blimey, interesting Taren! Such small margins whichever way but over a long ride it all adds up. I suppose helmet manufacturers appreciate that it’s really individual so it’s not easy to quote specific numbers. With such small margins comfort becomes a much bigger factor as well 👍