What Are The Best Aero Upgrades? | Cycling Costs Per Watt
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 31. 05. 2020
- As triathletes, some spend thousands on bikes and equipment in an attempt to make them faster! Is that money actually well spent? Mark explores some products that claim to give us an aero saving and compare them to their cost with the help of an aerodynamic specialist, Simon Smart!
A special thanks to Simon Smart for his help with this one - check out Drag2Zero here đ gtn.io/Drag2Zero
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As cyclists and triathletes, we can spend hundreds, sometimes even thousands on our bikes and our equipment, in an attempt to make them faster. But is that money actually well spent?! Or, letâs look at this a different way - could those smaller, cheaper upgrades actually provide some surprising improvements.
Well, today Mark is going to be exploring a number of products that claim to give us an aerodynamic saving and comparing them to their cost with the help of aerodynamic specialist, Simon Smart!
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What are the best aero upgrades you've made? Leave us a comment!
I turn my head 180 degrees every time I exhale. Return to the front to inhale. If I really work on it I can go 5 mph without peddling.
Sleeved aero suit âŹ75, TT helmet âŹ99, aero bottle âŹ27, bottle & cage between the arms âŹ29, bottle behind the saddle (only over 50km rides) âŹ39, deep section (Chinese) wheels âŹ199. Saves me about 7kph between training & racing @ 160HR. Is it worth it? Dunno, but half the fun is scowering the internet for bargains. So, yeah itâs worth it.
Shaved my legs...morning of event.
aero bars for sure
1. Recumbent 2. cloth fairing
Great video, but you could have made a table with all the results at the end!
Sorry, something for the next one. There was a lot of data there hey!
Weren't you taking notes?
@@markthrelfall3577 I forgive you đ
Its so nice to see a proper time-served and qualified aerodynamics engineer dishing out aerodynamics advice! Really enjoyed the video.
ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS VIDEO! i work in a place where we have a windtunnel ourselves and do also some aero testing! Victor campenaerts was in our windtunnel before his our record đ€đŸđ€đŸ
Thanks, very informative! Especially the data about the shoe and shoe covers - this is hard to get on this anywhere else.
Would be interesting to know more about detailed aero tweaks on some of these categories, i.e. trisuits with aero materials vs regular sleeved tri suits or deep regular section wheels vs something like a Zipp 858 NSW
When are we going to get a face-melting guitar solo from that axe in the corner of the room? đ€
Rider's position: the cheapest Watts ever! Rider's fitness: the best for both: results AND rider's health. The rest... marketing ;-) (for the amateur at least - not the pro who already made all possible he could have)
you still wouldn't want to push a square wheel regardless of fitness level, but agree if it's all about cheapest watts, shave your legs, get a skinsuit and work with your position, the rest is just marginal gains.
Thank you. đ€©
â@@nissenalf Work hard on the engine all the time....but reasonably serious age-groupers are always looking for ways to shave time. Especially when it only costs money - not effort :-)
You should hace made a spreadsheet or something in the end
This is pretty interesting. All those tiny gains can add up. The time lost putting those shoe covers on will most likely outweigh the time savings generated during the ride, though. Saving watts is only useful if it saves time.
Yeh but your ride looks way more impressive on Strava :P
Awesome video, completely agree, I went to my local expert and we found the water bottle in the aerobars gave me a gain of 2 watts, the aero helmet did not add any benefit so we stuck with the aero road helmet. The aero suit is a huge saving, however I really struggle to swim with any kind of top under my wetsuit. Result I have to have a 2 piece tri-suit, and opted for the vest, hearing this video, that was clearly a mistake.
Best improvement of wattage - get a coach and a good training schedule. I've seen my athletes making quite some improvements in a year by just training in a focused way. You can add whatever aero stuff you want, it's still your body (and mind) who need to make you go fast!
Making your comment irrelevant because that was not the subject of the video. The premise of the video is what can be improved on your equipment, not on your trainer/training schedule.
If you can quantify the watt savings based on coach quality and training schedules maybe you should make a video out of it...
Excellent information. I now know I have to invest in a tri suit, bont shoes, and an tt helmet đ
Even though there are watt gains by having no to very little venting on your helmet and shoes. But how is your performance affected and possibly reduced because your body is overheating and perhaps perspiring more and not getting sufficient cooling, causing it to tire an burn more energy making it less efficient?
My Giro Vanquish has helped a little.
Great, helpful video.
My wife and I have only ever used sleeveless try suits. But as ours are old we will be upgrading to sleeve ones for sure, but do not know anything about them or what is a good one versus a bad one and what to look forward to get those best arrow advantages. GTN if you could Offer up some advice what to look for or just quality name brand would be appreciated
Fantastic. This is going to save me so much money to start with :-)
That is NOT financially correct. You can not divide, for example, 4 watts you save by price of Bont shoe cuz you can not ride barefooted. You must divide by delta between price of regular shoe and the Bont pair.
Yes, exactly! It should have been the *marginal cost* of the improved tech divided by the *marginal gain* in watts.
Which bottle position of more aero? Seat tube or behind the seat?
Question @ Mark: besides running the greatest YT channel with your mates and being a great triathlete and badass runner and obviously also great overall dude - are you also a guitarist ? Saw the instrument in a few of the later GTN renditions that were recorded from your homes for obvious reasons - love your channel !!
We are a musical household. Unfortunately I do not contribute much to it đ
I used to play guitar, but itâs been a very long time. Itâs incredibly dusty
Playing guitar is also my other interest besides sports. Now that I am 53 I have a little more time for the guitar again though still crazy about triathlon and sports in general. So it's great to keep the guitar, times to dust it off might come..
We can see a lots of cost per watt comparison but it depends on speed, I think it would be better to tell in the end how many seconds you gain for some distance in ex for one half ironman...
Looks good have not used it yet
The part about the shoes was interesting and i though maybe iâm missing a trick. But, they are not tri shoes are they? Surely youâd lose more time getting your feet into the shoes?
Great video more would be great
Thanks đ
Yeah they went over all of this a week or two ago on that triathlon show podcast with josh portner from silca
Ah did they? I will have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up. This was meant to go out a couple of months back, but we had to work around Simonâs busy time schedule
Would love to hear about the oversized pulley systems
ÂŁ500 for a 0.5w saving in friction and 1.0 w penalty for aerodynamics ,so ÂŁ500 to add 0.5 w
How about the latest Specialized SHIV? How many watts does it give?
Hi ! Have you tested Aero Calf Sleeves like those form Zoot (Elite Aero Calf Sleeves) or Huub Aero Calf Sleeves. Huub claims that these Claf Sleeves save up 8 Watts, if this is ture i would be a huge gain for only 50 Bucks. I very curious how these aero Calf Sleeves perform vs perfecly shaved legs. I would realy appricate an answer. Best from Germany Eddy
How many Watts does a (not so aero) GB tri suit cost, compared to other nations that have noticeably better kit? Do pro ITU athletes have better kit? or do they suffer with the same problem/issue?
Nerdy aero stuff is always fun!
Would have loved if you mentioned in the bottle aspect, if there is a penalty for an standard bottle between the arms đ€
Great stuff thogh
I heard someone say that a bottle between the arms can save 3-4 watts @ 40kph
Study finds that bottle between arms is the most aero, more then integrated in frame and drink systems between arms
We did cover this, but it was sadly too long for this video. Maybe one for future. In summary, it depends on your position. Theyâve found it has little to no effect for most people, providing it doesnât force your arms out wider
Integrated systems can provide benefits at increased yaw angles, as it acts like a fairing
Thanks guys! The conversation in the video was more than enough mark đ
Chrissy Wellington always rode with a normal well ventalated helmet and was the strongest on the bike. Would she have been even faster with areo helmet or does comfort and feel become more advantages.
Comfort and feel is definitely a huge advantage. I imagine she wouldâve rode faster, but perhaps for her she found it impacted her on the run. Particularly if it was a hot race. We might have to ask her...
If it's a hot race, then an aero helmet can cost you time even if it is saving you watts. It's a definite balance
These numbers dont really match with the ones in the GCN video. They found a much bigger gain for TT helmets. Like 35 watts
Yeah, we should make a video "gcn and gtn go head to head in experimental design....who will win this epic battle" đđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Nerd alert - might already be somewhere below. If we are talking about watts saved we also have to talk money saved so only the difference between the aero and non-aero accessory should be in the numerator...
It is quite depressing looking at how many watts I'm losing by having road shoes, two bottles, basic wheels and all the other stuff that is being used as the baseline. I know really though, till I can get my FTP a lot higher, I'm the biggest thing holding the bike back. Would be nice though to splash all the cash and see if is gives an actual noticeable difference.
My best "aero" upgrade was making myself 15 pounds narrower. Cost: zero.
Free speed: know your correct tire pressure! (Hint: you are likely over inflating ;)
There are a lot of deep section wheels from other reputable brands at much lower prices than these, and same for helmets, which makes these price per watt calculations a little off vs what I came up with when I did my shopping research... At least when aero gains are your only metric!
Of course. I had hoped to talk through more wheels, but we had too much to get through. Zipp cost relatively similar, and Simon had a lot of knowledge in those specific wheels - so it seemed like the obvious example
I like the idea of the video, however using the most expensive wheels availability is hardly a good way to do it. For a 1000 pound you can get a cracking set of wheels from many brands and at way less than half the price of a set Enves
What about bta bottles and trispoke versus disc?
Nothing comes close to Heatherâs sparkly tail fin though. Cost of material and two paint brushes ÂŁ10 and a 30w saving (even if 3w came from removing the bottle)!! With that in mind itâs not surprising that Sunweb (I think it was) use ass savers. I suspect they worked out that it saves watts.
đ€Ł
cost per watt but i think its also mentally , look if you think your bike looks 200 % better with deepsection wheels ur willing and able to dig just that little bit deeper imo
Can clip pedals be used
how much does a recumbent cost?
I tried to do as many triathlons in a day yesterday!! So tired now x
How many did you do?
What sort of bike do you have
Victoria Wilkinson I just posted a video on my channel i would be really greatful if you went and checked it out! Then you can find out the answer đ
Fitfun Fun definitely not a super expensive one but a boardman
Wow well done!!!
I need to learn how to swim if i am ever going to try a triathlon
yes, it does help if you don't sink
Great video!
Thank you
@@markthrelfall3577 Love this network and all the crew!
The bike shape itself is missing in this calculation. Would be interesting to see the normal road bike as base line, then road bike with aero bars, aero road bike with aero bars and TT bike. Upgrade cost from normal road bike to TT bike of the same brand with similar components is maybe 500-1000âŹ. Aerobars only maybe 50-150âŹ.
Nice idea Alex đ
Fewer trips to the cafe would save me more watts by losing a few pounds (#) while saving me a few pounds (ÂŁ) but make life less enjoyable. :)
Aero frame / TT đ
Wouldn't you say that the amount of time saved with shoe covers is lost putting them on/off in transition?
I understand this but I think the best part of aerodynamics gains is that you can go in the same speed but using less energy, with this argument I think that it worth
If you get them all do you really get all the watt savings? I doubt it, some how I suspect the numbers aren't linear just like wind resistance. I suspect that all the measurements were made at some base speed. This stuff is never this simple.
Of course, itâs a very complicated area. Obviously these are all savings from our baseline number. If youâre using the baseline products, then yes there could be huge savings. For most, Iâd imagine itâs just small improvements here and there
So basically not going out naked and adjusting your position are the most logical upgrades to being aero right? :D
Not Aero but what about latex vs bytil tubes?
They just did a video on this =P
Timestamps
11:05 shoes
ok
I'm guessing that losing weight is the absolute best cost/watt advantage. I'm dropping 15 lbs and that's FREE.
For a lot of people who are serious about their sport or that have a build like me, that is simply not an option.
25 Watts a trisuit??? đł
Maybe in TT suit, not so much in a tri suit...especially if going without sleeves.
Wow aero stuff đ
2 or 3 watts savings for a disc at 40kph??? Wow that's rubbish đ
Iâd rather go for a recumbent bicycleđ
800$ per watt for overpriced brand wheels - 3200$ total...Get chinese quality carbon pair from Lightbycicle, for 800$, so watt is now 150-200$... 300g is consideration for massively aerodynamic wheel, and you ride it on flat on low inclines in Triathlons always, but disc brakes who are 500g heavier and much less aero than rim brakes, give you less aero wheel, less aero frame, they are good :D
More speed = more Watts saved from improved aero kit, but slower speed = more time saved (as a percentage)? Drag is proportional to CD * V^2. So the less able athlete has more to gain??
or just go buy a planet x helmet and get a road helmet for ÂŁ20. can't believe people are being ripped off ÂŁ175! for something that is so cheap. Cyclists are divas!
There's an enormous brand appeal in the cycling industry, cyclists really are nitpicky about not only the type of gear they buy, but also the manufacturere of their equipment. At some point it really does turn into a plain ripoff.
Most cyclists are pussies. Chasing tech is stupid unless you're getting paid to win
$ per Watt is a pointless and quite ignorant metric.
Say gadget A saves you 1W and costs $10
Say gadget B saves you 10W and costs $1000
If you want to win the race you get B. Or both A and B.