Matryx tall spindle options! Stock vs Cross Country vs 600R...which will be best on my 650 build!?
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
- Tall spindles and altered front end geometry is my go to the last few seasons for creating the dynamic handling I'm looking for in my sleds. In this video I try to "briefly" go over the differences in each spindle, what it takes to bolt them up, and what these geometry changes (or kinematic changes rather), do and how they cause the sled to react.
I have been down this path correcting and making a much more settled and predictable/confident G4 Skidoo, now it's time to see what I can achieve with the Polaris.
I attempted to keep this short and to the point, if there's demand or interest in more in depth explanations, please let me know in the comments and I'll put together a video digging deeper into the theories and what I've experienced in the last 15+ years of riding and modifying!
Do the in depth roll center video please!
Copy that! It will probably come towards the end of the season when everything slows down a bit before my transition to drift car season.
I machined a set to add both spacers for wide or narrow. I’ll check the measurement.
Love to see the scaling, showing all the ride heights, arm angles and so on and how much more travel gained in front of skid. The taller spindle and the long rear spring is something I always wanted on my sidewinder for sure!
I'll do my best to get a more in depth video together sometime in the near future! Work load is a bit heavy right now but I've got it in my list of "to-make" videos
I prefer these types of info videos!
I really like the technical explanations. These are very informative.
Suspension ramble overload for some, but I love it. What's the sense having all that adjustment at your disposal if your not going to use it. I can't believe the number of people I meet that complain about their sled handling but are scared to touch the suspension cuz "that's the way the dealer/previous owner set it up". I for one, would love to see a video on your suspension setup process. Just when I think I have my setup getting close, something does the opposite of what I anticipated and I scratch my head for hour wondering what happened.
Great content, new subscriber
Love this feedback! I'm anticipating being able to get a more in depth video together mid season as my customer work load slows down a bit. It's very common for your adjustment to be correct, but the condition changed so drastically from one ride to another that it seems like you went the wrong way! I see it a lot where setups end up having a small window where they work well, and then a slight trail condition change or sled setup change in combination with the trail throws the sled outside it's window of compliance. That usually causes the tail spin of chasing setup for a while. The best thing I can recommend is setup sheets and logging what you're changing, what it felt like/caused and ear marking what worked best and always having that in the back pocket to go back to!
Really appreciated you putting this video together. Your explanations were great and I’d be interested in the more in-depth video when you get a chance to put it together.
I’m pretty sure I’m going to upgrade my XCR to the Cross Country spindles. Sounds like they provided the ski pressure results to make things better without shortening the limiter strap.
Exactly! That CC spindle is going to be a great move for everyone to simply bolt on and go. I'm very happy with the 600R spindle after riding it, but I would be weary of doing just that spindle without the accompanying rear suspension changes I've made as well.
Super nice content !! Really appreciate. Thank you to take the time to explain it to us. I would really like to have a more in depth video on center of gravity, a-arm lines etc with a draw on paper.
Skidoo front end will be nice to ! I already been driving the RS front end on my Skidoo for a few years and it is a big upgrade. I also play with the ajustable top a-arm too for making a more aggressive angle at the spindle to make the ski sit better.
Love your video, just keep going !! Thank's
Great information best I have seen
Thank you for the good words! Trying to keep the videos informative yet still entertaining/easy to watch!
You gotta put this sled on four scales on dollies to remove scrub and see what happens with weight on the fts. I run 180,180 on the front 60 on fts and like 190 on the rear skid. Really males that track sit flat on the trails and removes weight transfer. I think I'm going to try the cc spindles this year so I can keep my flat a -arms and give me another inch of travel like you said
Yeaaaa, all my slip plates are already away in the car hauler which is stored now. The $8 walmart scales are good enough to give me a ballpark of the weight balance changes. What sled do you have? 180 on each ski seems like Boost 137/Assault numbers.
Currently redoing the suspension on my own purple vr1 since it has 10k miles on it. Poor Andy has to put up with me too
10k!? That thing's had/having a good run! Andy's been awesome to deal with
@@MunsonMotorsports yessir, original motor too. I split my 5k miles a year between multiple sleds but the Indy needed a lot of work. Rails are totally trashed so I got some Ice Ages, Andy talked me into the hygear linkage while it’s apart. Just wish I didn’t have to pay the 129 tax on that
@@ryanc1414 those are damn good seasons! I thought I was doing good at 3-4k miles a season haha. I wish IceAge made IGX/146 rails with the tip still in them, they only make straight end ones unfortunately. I really think the Hygear linkage is gonna be a great upgrade for us all.
I would go back and recheck the ball joint measurement. The measurement should be from the nesting position of each. Your measurement went from nesting position on top to bolt head nesting on the bottom. The thickness of the web comes into play.
Keep the tech content coming. My vote of one is make a vid with plotting content and tech. I like the scales discussion I've learned this the hard way over time without the scales so putting that out there helps all to look at the codependency of a particular adjustment/ reaction. Nice job on all the content and camera work.
PS ....not a hyjacker, however there's an alternative option and info to the center shock travel game to cover that could be interesting reconn.
DC
Are you perchance referring to relocating an arm? 👀
@@MunsonMotorsports
Yup ...I did my Assault. The center shocks interactions w the chassis ( pivot point) could be a interesting discussion. It's been discussed in places publicly before but the spindle discussion that be nice part 2
I need to find your OG assault vid where you talk about shim / camber sweep
@@hotrodsnova I didn't touch on it much in the Assault video, tried to keep the geometry stuff in here haha.
I'm trying to avoid the torque arm relocation as long as I'm utilizing a taller spindle as it will affect the dynamic anti-squat a good bit with these spindles. I think the stock geometry in that regard is really well balanced, it's a very overlooked and most likely very misunderstood topic. There's so many changes that happen when guys "just pull the limiter up" that most don't realize they're doing, same with moving the torque arm or any change really. However, with that said, I think if someone's keeping stock spindles then yes, the arm relocation is a great move.
@@MunsonMotorsports
I might be looking at it "wrong" but it made sense to me to leave the sled at stock front ride height and get the attack angle of track to ground adjusted. It's kinda a lot of work cause need to change the bracket inside chassis and be careful w the arm guard on the A-Arm or swap it. The sled was terrible stiff last year so I decided to make it what I wanted. So made some wholesale adjustments I had considered the spindle it wasn't the price it was the concept of raising the sled so I took the "longer" road , will see... Hopefully I get the desired results. Everything has its tradeoffs.
Again not trying to hyjack here just in support of tech and your channel talking sled theory is great it's nice when others share their knowledge/ experience with the masses and showcase vendor products. Keep up the great content.
@@hotrodsnova No worries at all on hyjacking, I'm all about the discussion and getting ideas going! You're not looking at it wrong at all, every move has it's trade offs and it all depends on what you'd rather gain vs lose. It's great to see that there are other people out there trying stuff outside the "norm". There's a lot of things I like about getting the sled slightly nose high, mainly in regards to CG and roll axis when looking at the sled as a whole and not just the static front. I'm sure we could be here for days really digging into it all haha
what mod did you do to the sway bar?
Simple redrill of the end blade/end link attachment point. Another hole drilled farther forward to increase the rollbar stiffness by reducing it's effective leverage.
How about rmk spindles? Either react or pre-react. More of them out there, could be a cheaper upgrade instead of going new cross country ones if they're tall enough
Love that you brought this up haha, I actually bought a set of RMK forged spindles as they're 1.5" taller (I think, may be 1.25", somewhere in there) and DIRT cheap in the Polaris accessories catalog. Downside is they don't work on trail sleds due to the design and steering clearance on the lower control arm. It was a bummer to discover that, but at least they were relatively cheap. Oh, the upper ball joint is an M10 on the RMK spindle vs the M12 on the trail.
Belmetric over McMaster all day 😉
Funny you say that, I was just looking at their site yesterday when I found they were the only ones that carried an oddball short head flange bolt I needed. Guess I'll have to make an account there
And you can buy 1pc not a box of 10,000…all the yellow zinc and JIS options too 😁
@@ewaschuk802 This guy gets it! Yellow zinc is the MOVE 🤓
Another good vid, Gonna put the XCR coupler blocks and aluminum cross brace on?
Do you have a part number for these spindles?
Are you looking for the CrossCountry ones or the 600R? I would be weary to recommend the 600R ones until I can get it on the snow, I'm very confident the CC spindle is a great upgrade for 95% of people, however the 600R is a big change that will most likely require some rear end changes as well to make them be worthwhile.
@@MunsonMotorsports I'm curious if the 600R spindles might be a budget 'elevate' kit for RMKs. The Ski-Doo guys are doing something similar.
@@boardbysled Ahhh gotcha. So i have sort of been down that road last season, but the reverse. The forged RMK spindles are about 1.25" taller than the stock trail sled spindle, and very affordable for a pair in the Polaris accessories catalog so I ordered a pair. Turns out the lower control and attachment/weld points of the tubes is different. RMK spindle on trail arms drastically limits steering radius. However, I don't know how the inverse would go...the 600R spindle may work just fine on the RMK arms, but I can't say for sure so that would be a bit of a gamble for ya!
@@MunsonMotorsports Copy! I already spent the coin on Iceage Elevate Spindles, so not my risk to take 😅
Keep up the great content. We need more sled build stuff that isnt just a wrap and a can. 👍
@@boardbysled I'll do my best! Got some more ideas/videos coming down the line, just gotta make the time to do the projects and get the editing done 🥸
Can you show some diagrams/pictures with how each spindle affects the front end characteristics. On my 21 Indy Xc 137 650 I had modded the spindle to space the ski out further and it made a drastic difference. On my 23 xcr 136 650 I am contemplating the cross country spindles and modding them so it spaces the skis out also…. But would it cause too much negative camber on the skis?
The camber change would only come if you start altering the mounting location of the upper control arm, if you leave that as is from the factory your camber gain/sweep will remain the same as factory with either the stock or CC spindles.
I don't think anyone could really go wrong with the CC spindle, it's a great upgrade for aggressive riders. Modifying the spindle for ski stance adjustment is good too, it's around a half inch change, which on a 42" track width is a big move, you're familiar with how the change affects the machine so you'll be happy doing it on the new rig too!
I think the bad idea of velocity shock's needs to go away!! All they have done is take away half of your adjustability!! And shorten your available travel!!