Deepfake And Anti-P0rn Debate w/ Aussie Feminist ft. Creepy MrGirl Cameo
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- DEBATE: Destiny talks to Aussie feminist Jo about anti-p0rn, SWERFS, deepfakes and more ft. NotSoErudite, Kelly Jean, Katee and MrGirl...
Date: 22 Feb, 2023
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TheSillySerious
► / joannacrichards
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KellyJean
► / kellyjeaaann
Katee
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00:00:00 Teasers / Intro
00:00:53 anti-p0rn arguments
00:11:16 Meghan Murphy debate roadblocks
00:16:22 objectification isn't always negative
00:24:22 vast majority of p0rn appeals to men
00:33:10 Children exposed to video games at a young age
00:45:28 Women unintentionally come off as passive aggressive in debate setting
00:52:44 Weird avenue w/ freedom of speech
01:03:55 Destiny doesn't haven answer and Kidology talk
01:11:19 Destiny asks Jo for help in debating someone like Meghan
01:18:25 Why does makeup make women feel good?
01:29:09 Women are allowed to be sexy but not allowed to want it
01:38:41 Deepfake was built around QTcinderella
02:02:48 MrGirl DMs her and wants to know if she's platonic w/ Destiny or not
#destiny
#politics
#debate
Rad Feminist Instantly Quits Debate After Hearing Destiny's Logic ►czcams.com/video/YxjMYB0rkfQ/video.html
Destiny Discusses Atrioc Controversy And The Bigger Problem ft. Brittany Simon ►czcams.com/video/XI84qE-2XO4/video.html
when porn was different.......ha ha ha......how did you become so thick kid........
The feminist thing is just a long way to say is that we should prioritize morally righteous ( from their view ! ) speech over morally bad (again in their view !) . Men are not taken in consideration when talking about porn and also the women who chose to engage in it as grown-ass adults are infantilized. This is not the way to solve problems fair and equal but a divide-and-conquer tactic.
SIMP!!
Jo was a little too op compared to the rest of her counterparts. She has a very strong grasp on philosophy, feminism, phenomenology and comes off deeply prepared to defend her beliefs. A very respectable person
She has a good analysis of things but never actually explains why they're bad or why anybody should care.
Like if you really think about it Harvey Weinstein never actually raped anyone, he never made anyone do anything that they didn't choose to. Why was what he did bad? She never explains, both Destiny and Jo just say you should be allowed to leverage your sex for money.
Another thing was analyzing beauty standards only from the perspective of women, when research proves women care more about physical appearance and therefore benefit less from being more attractive than men would. Women wear makeup because they have the opportunity to wear makeup. Being beautiful is a privilege.
Wish destiny pushed back more.
Too much philosophy rots your brain.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor unfortunately most people suffer from the opposite problem.
@@Nestoras_Zogopoulos Most people are doing a pretty good job if they're employed and don't drive drunk.
I will never forget when MrGirl read out that list of reasons why he's the perfect person to expose Destiny. It was literally just a list of narcissistic traits lmao.
See this kind of comment is why I'm better than you. Stronger than you. Smarter than you.
I gotta find this. It doesn't ring a bell
When your argument becomes a DSM-5 self diagnosis
#1 Butthurt beyond all belief.
@@WaffleStomper69 please report back with link if you find it
Kelly getting wrecked by Jo only to turn around and cry gaslighting once she left was maddening. Jo is awesome though and I definitely hope to hear more from her in future conversations.
Crazy to think Mrgirl went from begging Destiny for his friendship to becoming a professional meat monitor for his hitpiece.
Explain to me what a meat monitor is
@@crispy4797 I think "meat dispenser" would be a more understandable way for us that do not speak english as first language lol
@@crispy4797 like a tv screen made of meat.... yeh know. A thing to look at for the purpose of a style of entertainment. In this case a destiny hit piece. Mr.girl is a destiny hit piece as how I met your mother is to a sitcom. Yeh meat dispenser is good too.... lmao
@@crispy4797 Someone that constantly watches and pays attention to another person and what they do.
@@crispy4797a monitor that keeps track of someone’s dick
This Jo person brought a lot to this conversation imo. I enjoyed this
She used to be so much more active on stream. Also had her own CZcams channel but it's pretty much dead. Wish she'd come back into the space. She has so much quality discourse to offer.
@@frumtheground Do u know the channel name
@@Swagzillaaye she went by thesillyserious you can find more of her talks with destiny and others by using that name
MrGirl really said "I just DM'd this girl something creepy and weird, but she didn't respond to me and instead laughed at me on stream. Why would she do that?" lmao
It's so funny that he doesn't understand why someone wouldn't want to talk to him lmao. The guy is just helpless
MrGirl is like Game of Thrones season 8 and it makes me just as sad :(
@@hybridpsycho ROFL That's horrifically accurate 🤣
Npd has zero self awareness. They can casually tell an anecdote where they clearly come across as a terrible person, and have no idea
As someone who only got into Destiny like a year ago, and never watched him play starcraft, it's CRAZY watching him stomp on people while having complex conversations like this. Holy fuck.
Jo needs to make more appearances, always clear and succinct.
And Kelly Jean needs to make less apperances
Common Kelly L
Kelly is almost never ready to grapple with whatever conversation she's trying to have. It's astonishing really.
Who the fuck is this Aussie debate-god? Makes some of the most robust and thought-through arguments I've heard.
Glad Jo has returned, she's really intelligent
⚠PLATONISM CHECK⚠ Please confirm below if your relationship with Destiny (the streamer) is still platonic.
My relationship with destiny (the game) is anything but platonic
my relationship with destiny (the concept of my designed future) is mostly platonic.
My relationship with destiny (the streamer) is highly non-platonic but he doesn't know who I am yet
Mine is Aristotelian
Only thing worse than Katee is Katee and Kelly jean in the same conversation, thank god lav is no more or that trinity would leave me suicidal
Jesus Christ, overreact a little bit more would you?
only through destiny's sacrifice have we kept the dark triad at bay.
The dark triad would be Katee Kelly Pxie, together they might be enough to bring back the Nebraska Steve energy that Lav was momentarily able to invoke. Throw in bxbullet while you're at it and a ZvP cheese loss streak to complete the ritual.
Idk why people hate Katee so much, she's fine imo. Not the most insightful or brilliant person, but I don't feel like she brings the quality level of a conversation down that much.
Kelly on the other hand brings the average IQ of these rooms by like 10 points just on her own. She's not even particularly annoying or anything, she just doesn't belong in these types of conversations. Jo had to spend so much time just trying to get Kelly to define the terms she's using on a basic level, and even then Kelly got exasperated and couldn't answer. It's so frustrating
@@Hemlocker For me its the topic anytime anything related to SA is brought up, Katee and Pxie have a mental block which makes the conversation annoying and after the recent talks Brittany is on the list too. Otherwise they are ok. Kelly on the other hand is annoying everytime. So you right.
Started off as a really interesting conversation, would be cool to hear just Destiny, Jo, Erudite and maybe Aella talk about this. But holy shit Kelly Jean really brought down the overall quality level of the conversation by like 30% on her own. At the end she even admitted to not knowing what a lot of the terms Jo was using meant, and became exasperated and speechless when asked to give a single example to illustrate what she means by the terms she was using herself.
I have no idea how Kelly Jean became a Destiny regular. She demonstrated she was incapable of thinking when she debated Ahrelevant a year ago. It seemed like she just wanted to blame men for everything. The video is on CZcams if anyone's curious - just search for "ahrelevant kelly jean" and it's the one titled "Men Need To Pick Themselves Up By Their Bootstraps" (I can't link to it because CZcams doesn't seem to allow that). But beware, it made me want to blow my brains out.
@@razzle_dazzle "I have no idea how Kelly Jean became a Destiny regular" I always see this in the comments. Is it really confusing? Being good at thinking is - if anything - a great way to not be a Destiny regular. Theres not as much entertainment value.
It's not the first time she has brought the convo down and I think Destiny is a little tired of it
She tends to do that with everything I've seen her in. She just does cringy voices.
@@roymarshall_ That would make sense and fit is f a lot of his regulars weren't thinkers.
I still can't believe that Destiny was ever friends with Mr. Girl. I have never seen someone who exudes so much red flag energy.
Right? I remember watching their very first conversation and I was like this dude is sketchy AF
@@BenjaminNixon not only that (and I'll admit that the content was usually funny) but he is an absolutely terrible conversationalist. From day 1 he demonstrated his inability to engage with other people's positions and arguments.
Destiny just likes fucked up people. I think that much is obvious
Dude looks like a PDFile
I used to leave the stream each time his goofy ass was on, just his voice was enough to give me the creep, couldn't stand it.
Kelly needs to take some time to watch some of this back and understand why people are annoyed. She can make her points, but she could definitely take a moment to fully understand what other people say before repeating something without improvement
Yea but her points aren't thought out either. It's bad because objectification dehumanisation bad. Why are they bad? Because of course they are what do you mean lmao
I love the perspectives Jo brings to the table. It's amazing to have someone on the stream who both is an expert in philosophy and also communicting philosophy in a digestible way (95% of philosophy warriors fail miserably on the latter point)
But if I don't use big words how will you know I know them? Lol
@@dudestolemyname69 Truuuue
Although I think Jo has a problem with being able to literally speak forever, she's absolutely correct in her rant around @16:30. She could have solved the whole Megan/D debate in 3 minutes
She's smart and very well spoken, but i don'y get her rant at 16:30. Who cares if disabled women are invisible sexually? Why is that harmful? A disabled woman still has more value in the sexual marketplace than an average man. No woman would ever approach a 5/10 man, millions of men would approach a 2/10 woman. Men are invisible by default and she can't comprehend the thought of living life as a man.
So many feminist issues just sound like women wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be given special treatment with no tradeoffs
She's an academic, of course she can literally speak forever.
Thank you so much for this comment. I zoned out and was at 19 minutes cause I got distracted. Then I thiught, who had a rant 3 minutes ago?
Went and listened to it and wow yeah that position is so based.
Me and my wife are Christians, no sex before marriage. Both of us like the idea of being objectified. Like the idea as a fantasy but not a reality of people paying millions to look at our naked bodies is genuinely appealing.
This is not the same point as her but leads into how really this stuff isn't truly objectifing. Not like how early industrial age approaches to managing work was objectifing that Marx might have talked about.
If someone finds me in porn a turn on, even when looking at my body they are appreciating the choices I've made with diet and excersise (in whatever direction), they are appreciating facial expressions.
Really people are regularly subjects of sexual desire not objects. (though they can be. A brochure of naked breasts in a plastic surgery clinic, those are objects)
This is such an interesting conversation. It's a shame that it has to get clickbaited like that.
he is a leftie
August gotta maximize the revenue sharing before Destiny stops doing it.
@@railguncs HILARY EMAILS FOUND?? BIDEN PROOF OF BEING DEMENTED??!? TRUMP 49 STATE LANDSLIDE!!! DISENY FIRES GINA CARANO AND GOES BROKE!!!
Yeah I came here for a Jerry Springer episode and I left with a phd
@@Fjaloeat1 well...to the point that it puts ppl off from watching,and as destiny audience matures it will be a bigger problem. I for one am ashamed of showing someone these titles because they will get the completely wrong picture of what's been discussed in the video.
YES THE SILLY SERIOUS IS BACK FINALLY PUTTING AUS BACK ON THE MAP
The point at which Katee and Kelly started contributing more to the conversation, it got markedly worse
I have nothing to say.
Yet here we are.
I love Jo so much, aussie women representation!! ♡
An actual good advocate for feminism and feminist issues, even if I don't agree with everything she says
She's just the GOAT orbiter.
Based af
Joeow*
Jo and Erudite are fantastic. If Katee would learn to stop being so condescending, I honestly think she would be fine too, she just buys way too much into cancel culture and doesn't really respect people who disagree with her, which shows when she talks to literally anyone. Kelly Jean doesn't bring anything to the conversation.
If more feminists were as knowledgable and well spoken as Jo. I would respect feminism more.
But most of them sounds like Kelly Jean.
@@Uber_scorpion the ones online sound like Kelly Jean. I've met plenty of feminists as intelligent as Jo in real life, they just don't want to be on streams and stuff like that. I wish more did.
“These women are being exploited and objectified for their bodies.”
“So anyway Tom, break’s over, hop back down in that sewer for $15 an hour. Somebody’s gotta clean society’s shit.”
lmfao or even worse in times of war men are forced into the army specifically because of our body type
New rightwing lore just dropped: no one can ever talk about women's issues as long as men have issues. BIG IF TRUE
Pretty much everyone who thinks sex work is exploitative would also agree that’s manual labor for poverty wages is exploitative, and that the military is exploitative.
@@curtishancock432 socialist communist leftist whatever buzzword you want to latch on to today I’m fine with
@@TonyCox1351 Literally people making minimum wage today have better quality of life than most people on the planet did a few hundred years ago. It's not exploitative at all, it's what you're worth to a company vs what you're willing to work for. Most people aren't willing to work for less than they can survive on, which sets the minimum.
What a nice mostly good faith discussion didn’t feel too much like a debate but a conversation to know and find out the topic on a deeper level and or to clear up any fog or views in terms aka words example the talk on What Dehumanizing is
When an Australian comes on and is based, it really helps to make up for all the brainrotted Aussies that Destiny has had on
Australia is so big, it's like calling somebody European
It's always an Australian woman with like the same exact voice so I just pretend they are all the same person just constantly evolving.
What other Aussies has he had on?
@@phillipoliverholtz9226 uh. No it really isn't lmao. Land mass does not equal diversity. Not saying we don't differ greatly from region to region, but to compare it to literal seperate land* masses is fuckin wild
@@TheRedHaze3 Alice Harga was a pretty rough one. There was another guy who was going nuts with conspiracy stuff, but I can't remember his name. My least favourite one was when he was on a panel discussing gun control and this woman said that Australian police don't carry firearms, and she got away with that because there was nobody there to call her out for it. She ended up yelling at him for mansplaining.
thank you to all the panelist, really enjoy that intelligent conversation
Jo! I miss the brain connection Jo/Silly Serious and Destiny have! So great to see her on stream. I wish it would have been just her on stream. Having the others ruined the flow.
Yeah I don't agree that all or even most deepfake porn is done with the goal of degrading or otherwise harming the person whose face is being used. That's definitely a overwhelmingly common result of deepfakes, but I don't think the motivation behind the creation of most deepfakes goes beyond simply "I and/or others are attracted to this person, so let's put their face on an actual porn scene so we can imagine it's them easier so we can get the pleasure from this."
Is it degrading? Yeah. Is it done for the purpose of degradation? I don't see it, most of the time.
Kelly just your typical cringy feminist. Shoutout to Jo for asking all the right questions, especially wihile one of them was throwing shots.
“The craziest thing just happened, I dm’d x asking them if they were still platonic with y” like that’s just a normal thing
Max: asking people he barely knows if they're fucking an ex friend and having the shocked Pikachu face when they laugh at him on stream.
Should have debated this topic with Gail Dines.
It's so wild how I can be enjoying a great convo with tons of great women representation then Kelly opens her mouth and it all falls apart. Wow, she really ruins everything.
Enjoyed this discussion, thanks for it
I'm sick of women complaining constantly and men being expected to sit quietly, listen, and nod their head, but when a men brings up his issues its "you just hate women".
Did you watch this video?
@Innit Bruv-lasco Comics I could only stand 45 minutes of these women whining about the most minute of first world problems.
We did it for you since the beginning of our lifetimes, now it’s your time.
Cope and seethe.
@Rose Thot I'll just become a women then and steal all your privileges.
@@Alaric11 ahahah, I dare you to. I’d love to see you crumble under the pressure.
wow, im surprised how max is so enthralled with exposing Steven that we forget that he has a girl name
😹😹😹😹
Is it just bots posting the same “girls name” comments now? It’s literally just spam at this point…
@@Stabby666 ik.... But I still like doing it anyway *creepy aba laugh
Having this talk with Joe was interesting. She’s the first person besides Dest that seems to have actually thought out her position from this topic instead of arriving at it as a result of bias, necessity, or team sports. Hope she is a reoccurring character on the stream.
She's hard repping for the Australian Moderates - super well thought out arguments and good faith engagements.
@@Jodykang nah, she doesn’t even agree with me. I’m probably way further to the conservative side. I just thought the way she was representing herself was refreshing.
@@Jodykang no hes happy she thought out her positions rather than just following her bias like he said
She's great, unfortunately she only seems to show up on stream once every 6 months or so.
Who is she? I agree with what you said but idk who she is.
EDIT: There is a link to her in the description. However, she only has 1 video posted unfortunately.
Extremely interesting conversation!!
Mr girl’s utter bewilderment is so wild to me. “Maybe she’ll update on steam?”
Kelly 5 mins after refusing to define what she meant be dehumanization trying to argue something is dehumanization : "that is by definition dehumanization"
Please we NEED more Jo content. I can personally say she has been impactful on my life and how i view things like gender, sex, etc and I judt wish we could get lore content. I know she used to stream (i assume she stopped but maybe in wrong) so i hope if she isnt making content she can at lesst make more appearances on Tinys stream
I think Kelly might become the worst orbiter of the last year. She has a lot of the negative traits of the worst orbiters but not nearly as entertaining or interesting
Katee and Kelly are goobers. Joanne is cool though.
Mrgirl got so disappointed he only got 3 seconds in the spotlight 🤣
When Destiny at 57:07 mentions women's unequal success in school, he means how there is 60% women who graduate from university or how women in school are now out performing the boys in all subjects??
He’s saying that women’s advocacy groups formed because women were not well represented in schools, and those advocacy groups were successful thus women are now graduating in record numbers. So you’re actually agreeing with him
What does Steve get outta being friends with Kelly? She's never ever said anything interesting
First was exposed to Kelly in that one language discussion.
Is she perhaps one of the most dense conversationalists ever on stream?
38:50 The film "The Wrestler" goes hard (heh) on likening 'pro-wrestling' to sex work.
All jobs monetize your personhood in some fashion, be it your time, your skill or your intellect or knowledge or what have you.
With pro-wrestling, these men are literally monetizing their bodies, have to have rigorous physical training regimes, often use performance enhancing drugs (which in turn leads to mental health issues), end up with serious physical injuries and unless you achieve a level of fame (such as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson or Terry "Hulk Hogan" Bollea), age out of the profession. The same issues apply to sex work.
That's a great point. Those men put their bodies and health on the line. Especially wrestling that isn't your more "vanilla" type of wrestling like WWE. There's matches where these men bodyslam eachother on thumbtacks and jump from crazy heights. There's hard-core matches that are truly brutal. I'm guilty of gravitating more toward wrestling of that fashion due to the shock factor but I do realize that these men are putting their health and mental health on the line. The resurrection of Jake the snake was an eye opening look into how devastating the pro wrestling industry can be to men doing it.
Such a good movie.
The feminist thing is just a long way to say is that we should prioritize morally righteous ( from their view ! ) speech over morally bad (again in their view !) . Men are not taken in consideration when talking about porn and also the women who chose to engage in it as grown-ass adults are infantilized. This is not the way to solve problems fair and equal but a divide-and-conquer tactic.
Really good conversation, I love hearing Jo's perspective and expertise.
Good, I hope they keep up the good work.
1:40:40 stopping words being put in you’re mouth or being twisted is a important issue to address always some do it on purpose others don’t think and do it somewhat accidentally
cool discussion went downhill when kelly and katee started taking part
Are there more videos with Joanna? I would like to listen to her rant, particularly with an opponent who is more familiar with the background of the topic and the terminology. I feel like she does a very good job explaining her perspective and also is able to keep a train of thought alive for a really long time without getting extremely boring.
Does she do youtube? Has she debated other people?
I honestly can't tell if Mrgirl is doing a bit, or if he is really just this weird. His response to Kelly laughing at him was so bizarre. What else did he expect?
Destiny always coming through with the important/interesting conversations we all need to hear.
God dammit these convos I want to see the video 😩😩😩
Wow, such an interesting conversation. As an Aussie, I'm proud of Joanna for standing her ground. 👏
jo is brilliant, please keep talking with her :)
Damn Kelly and that other chick couldn’t engage with conversation towards the end. They know of the concepts “Objectification” and “Dehumanization” but haven’t conceptualized it so they have no idea how to define it when asked.
Love it ❤
Whoa! Jo is back! For folks that are new to her, she had some great convos/debates with Destiny about a year ago and then apparently went back to her research/real life. Her streamer name/channel was called TheSillySerious. She’s really intelligent and really cool. Always a great stream when she’s on.
This might've been the first time i watched a conversation/debate video on this channel where I felt way out of my depth. I feel like destiny often talks to people whose opinions aren't very thought out and argue based purely on superficial readings. but hearing Jo talk really put things in perspective about how little I know even if I do have a decent general intuitive sense of my outlook.
title for 3 minutes at the end lmao
It’s getting pretty funny how everyone made fun of Vaush for calling out Max exactly for what he is within 15 mins.
2h video. Video title refers to the last 20 seconds. Thanks, editor
the Joanna person is SUPER intelligent and honestly kinda intimidating. lol. I will say that I think her comments around how it isn't "dehumanization" necessarily to make deepfakes of someone like QTcinderella because their subjectivity or identity is a focal point of what makes the porn appealing might need more work. I think that the fact that her subjectivity is warped or manipulated in order to apply sexual characteristics or representations of her is potentially a form of dehumanization because it degrades or corrupts her subjectivity. Another similar example might be identity theft. Despite the fact that your subjectivity or identity is extremely important to the person performing the action it is still dehumanizing in a way because it's a manipulation or corruption of your subjectivity.
I feel like we're stretching with the "men have a problem with booby streamers" point. Most people just don't like booby streamers in the context of it being on twitch and involved with gaming content. In my opinion of course. That's just how I view it and how I thought most people see it.
Jo just delivers dub after dub ever since I saw her on old pannels years ago. She is a joy to listen to.
2 hours of cringe content before the real content in mr girl begins
Alright August...I appreciate you putting down clips for context, keep them short though...
ye i didnt watch the video and came to the comment section.
problem?
No i still adore you
interesting that a 3 minute bit is the title for an unrelated 2 hour conversation
Was the title changed ? It just says its a cameo and while I also felt it was really short, I kinda realized that at this point we really shouldnt give too much attention to that Mr guy anymore. Needless to say, its still a good clickbait.
Me: "What the fuck is a Swerf?"
August: "I got you bro"
1:54:00 I can feel and agree that pain or mental struggle of trying to explain that her reputation and human nature was hurt or attacked rather then “oh she’s a objectified” as her being known is why it happened and why it’s bad god Kelly is a brick of a person like she wouldn’t get most of jokes or a analogy or pro verb
The dignity argument is a great way to approach this yea
August really should’ve put a *womp womp* sound effect after Max’s reaction
When I think of a visualization that is all about exploring the female desires, in this context, I think of manga's in the genres smut + josei (stories aimed at woman rough 18+) The ones that have good storytelling and illustrate the sexy scenes properly can really drive up tension which can very activating.
Great thumbnail lol
Steven kind of kills is own argument against the SWERF gal he talked to. Women can't enjoy their sex work because they have to do things that appeal to men.
How is that different then any other job? The act of needing to produce or do what the market wants so you can continue to sell your product or services.
You really can’t argue against the fact that cutie Cinderella as a name and face would come along with all the information that the viewer knows about that person that adds onto the sexual pleasure, they’re not dehumanised technically
Those early 2000's surveys are all bullshit and have nothing to actually back them. They just wanted to attack/blame gamers and they're still trying to this day lmao
I’m quite enjoying the StarCraft arc, nice throwback
It's funny how Eva in 20 minute talk was able to have more detailed and nuanced take than everyone here in 3 hours
Your minstrel show example is the plot to the spike Lee film bamboozled.
Im so glad to see the tsarina make a public appearance after so long in seclusion. i hope she feels as good about this convo as she deserves to, but sadly she rarely does.
I'm getting jumpscared by these informative cards
Aaaay let's go
Skip to 2:02:48 for the clickbait content so you have more time to watch other videos.
1:35:41 a wise girl once said: you can fantasize about whatever you want
Which one was the one Destiny was talking to at the beginning?
The one that said we all have bodies and they are used for things.
im so happy the background game is SC2 and factorio. So much more intersting to watch
this conversation got good twords the end! jonanna is dropping nukes and i like it
How did Megan demonize all sex? She said sex women don't really want to have, but have bc they are paid is unethical. She didn't say any penetrative sex is unethical. Just the sex women don't want or are financially coerced into. It seems like a straightforward argument.
Oh no Kelly Jean did a Demonmama."There are too many examples to list so I won't name one"
The classical courtesan or geisha could be seen as an expert in pleasure and entertainment. They often had a extensive training and some prestige.
Geishas weren't courtesans, they were performers only.
@@Lewa500 I did not say they were the same….and in some cases geishas also did more than simple entertainment. You could for instance buy their virginity.
I LOVE JO GON
You all need to go to BED
They literally titled a video based on one small interaction lol
The vast majority of pro athletes come from upper-middle-class backgrounds. It's not "their opportunity to get out of poverty" it's something rich people do in their free time. We just like to tell the rags to riches story so that's who you hear about.
I don't feel a whole lot of pity for millionaires who have to work for billionaires so poor people can have some entertainment. I mean heaven forbid they have to interact with "the poors" in some way! What do you expect them to deal with next? Economy class?