S&W 1917 Cylinder Swap and time.....Anvil 0110
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 02. 2022
- Here we swap in a new cylinder without loosing any functionality of the old one. NOT a tutorial; if you don't have this skill set, do NOT attempt to do this work.
Bruno's N frame triple lock animation • History of WWI Primer ...
History of the 1917 • History of WWI Primer ...
Support us: / anvil Thanks. - Věda a technologie
The fact that you could get those cylinders made a century apart to interchange with that minor amount of fitting is a testament to the engineers, designers, machinists, inspectors, and calibration techs at S&W. That sort of thing doesn't happen by accident. A bunch of people had to do a bunch of things right over and over again for a long time for that to work.
Now, and in the past few decades, Smith can't even cut their barrels and cylinders true.
As a guy with a small business where fine craftsmanship and detail are important, I appreciate this level of info. Feels like an apprenticeship in my 40's.
"A buck and book saves a thousand dollars in stupid"
Real wisdom right there
My ears heard "A f@ckin book saves a thousand dollars in stupid"
Seems like essentially the same lesson 😃
Equally true. 😸
I took apart a S&W revolver several decades ago. Had a heck of a time getting it back together. Now, I'd make close up photos with my cell phone camera first, detailing the parts and their relationship to each other.
I put the gun on a big sheet of paper and trace it. that way I can put the screws where they go on the drawing and mark the order they came out.
Try a detail strip, part evaluation, cleaning and run thru on a SNW 645 😂 you talk about "springs n things?...at one time I was probably one of the few guys who had done this on the regular in the WNC area. The book Mark shows at the first of the video is worth its weight in platinum
That sw gets these to work at all is mindboggling.
35:40-36:40 is the most helpful minute of video ever. I sort of knew how the 3 parts bolt, trigger, and hammer assembly worked together but didn’t fully appreciate the critical timing issues.
Great educational video!
Beautiful work Mark! This reminds me of re-timing my 1905 4th change and that was a complete nightmare. Now I know why people charge so much for these jobs!
I never thought about the fact that in those times and models, the strain screw is accessable from the outside, unlike on todays rubber grip ones.
Mine worked itself loose after some time on a 686, and knowing little about revolvers i didn't evne notice, that the trigger got lighter over time. Started noticing light primer strikes on DA, but worked still fine on SA. So after a little search i found that there's this screw under the grips and what it's doing. But there were different opinions on the interweb about the position of this screw. So i asked the nice guy from the Brownels shop in my country, and he said the same thing: it should always be all in. I even used a little loctite so it won't move unwanted again.
(I don't use .38sp in it. i bought it for 357mag, but this means i have to tighten screws regularly.) After that i noticed the difference in the trigger pull. 😁
I had a 1917. I love the moon lips. Fast and reliable. Remember it was a war horse. I would have left the revolver as she was and use clips
Same here. Not getting the logic of switching out what appears to be a perfectly good cylinder that was designed to be component with this 1917....just to use the same ammo as before....but without the clips???
Just doesn't make much sense to me.
Seeing as how the clips are convenient, fairly cheap, and increase the reload speed on the revolver.
Maybe it's an accuracy issue or something.
Having owned a couple of 1917s. I can't say I ever had one that was mi
You could put up a video on how to tune up a toilet paper roll holder and I'd watch it ! And I bet I'd learn something in the process ! Thanks for all you do Mark .
My boyfriend flushed a toilet paper roll holder once years ago, a couple months after we met. 😸 He flushed the toilet and immediately went to change the toilet paper roll to a new one. The holder popped out of his hands and dropped into the toilet right as it was swirling around and emptying down the trap. The holder went right on down as he stared in shock. He hoped it went all the way, but after another 2-3 uses, the toilet had clearly gotten clogged up. He was living in an apartment, so he called up maintenance and they tried snaking it. They said they "thought they pushed it all the way through" but if it continues clogging my boyfriend would need to call a plumber and pay out of pocket because it was his fault. Have no fear, his new boyfriend was here to rescue him. 😸 I pulled the toilet up off the floor and whaddya know? The toilet paper roll holder was sitting right there, wedged sideways riiiighhhhhhtttttt at the mouth of the toilet trap's funnel where the wax ring seals against the closet flange. Popped it right out in 2 seconds, scrapped the old wax off, put a new wax on, and put the toilet back. He came home and was absolutely over the moon that I had fixed it for $2 instead of him having to pay $200 for a plumber. 😸 I got a nice reward that night. I still tease him about doing that to this day and he still feels like a goofball for doing it. 🤣 I've rescued him many more times since then. He calls me Handy Manny like the kid's show. 😁
@@mannys9130 ; See what I mean ? LMAO !
Mark, thanks for taking the time to explain timing and the interrelationship of the internal components. Your knowledge and ability to explain things is amazing!
I had to rewatch the intro 3 times to finally figure out that, no, there’s no logical explanation for why the owner would want to do this. I was adamant that there’s some small slice of wisdom that I just kept missing that would justify the whole ordeal.
Not only are your videos instructional, they're entertaining and even more important--they're a deep-dive documentary on specific functionality of firearms. I love this stuff. Like Dave Engle's channel, you are preserving history through your artisanship. Thank you Mr. Novak.
I cannot reason why the owner would want to replace an original working cylinder that uses speed loading moon clips and easy case ejection with the replacement "non functional" cylinder. It makes no sense to me. But I guess that is why they make vanilla & chocolate! Great video Mark!
Luckily he didn't replace it, he just had Mark make both cylinders work equally well in that gun. My only reasoning is that a straight bored cylinder will have a chamber mouth that is too large for the bullet. A cylinder that still has its headspace lip and tapered mouth will be more accurate than a cylinder that has been bored straight through. 🤷🏻♂️ Or, maybe the original cylinder was modified to use .45 Colt and the owner wants the proper lipped cylinder to make the gun correct again?
I have an old Highway Patrolman that I love. The previous owner didn't respect it. He was under the impression that revolvers never had to be cleaned. One of the chambers wouldn't lock without manually indexing it. A deep cleaning fixed it all. I also own his old Ruger P95 which would stovepipe constantly because the extractor was FROZEN with carbon. I bought all 5 of his guns for $1000 total and made them all work again.
Way past my wanna position for old guns. I like to keep them like they were made. My hat is off to you for this one. If my mechanical mind worked like my musical mind, I could be a gunsmith, but it does not. "A man must know his limitations". - Dirty Harry.
I just ran across this vid and it is appreciated in all it's content. I have a S&W 1917 and even though I do not have any intentions to or need of taking it apart, this video has increased my knowledge and understanding of my 1917's inner workings and how the all important timing works and is checked. I am a retired machinist and specialty TIG welder as well as life long gun enthusiast so if there is ever a need to disassemble my Smith I will have the info to do so. I think the comment by Pietro about the hammer is not totally correct. Maybe a small brass hammer or brass drift would have been better, but the hammer you were using was quite tiny and light coupled with "ever so slight strikes" that it did not really hurt the more solid center cylinder circle in any way. Great vid.
I did the same thing with a 1909 that had spent some time in Brazil. The customer gave me a frame with a barrel a, internal parts and three cylinders, one being an ACP.I had to trim the bearing on the extractor to get the headspace correct , remove the barrel to get the cylinder gap and find the correct length ejector rod, and time the ratchets. Works great,
This is really interesting to see the process in doing it right
Great explanation of the timing and the many aspects that affect timing. Thanks very much for sharing.
Thank you Mark! I really enjoy learning more about S&W revolvers.
I've been a lover of Smiths for 50 years. I always learn something from your videos. Thanks!
What a great old S&W, very interesting watching how Mark makes everything work properly.
You're killing me with your skills! I have learned so much watching your videos, I feel so guilty---maybe I should come by, pick up a floor broom and sweep for free your shop floors...but that would be another tease for my eyes would be locked on you as you work, learning even more! I have no intention of joining your trade, but I have every intention of learning what's what and then take that "attitude" to other areas of interest for me. Thank you, you old salt!
Nice trip down the hole. Didn't see the rabbit, but did see a hair. You know what kind. Tight tolerance.
RCH
I had a real rough day today, but I promptly forgot all about it for 41 minutes this evening. Thanks fellas. Not much I look forward to more than a trip down the rabbit hole with Mark.
Same here. I hope your day gets better
100+ years old and still does what it was intended to do! Outstanding video as usual Mark! Thank You!
As someone who sent a 29-2 rebound spring flying across the room, I appreciate your pointing that out. Better not to learn the hard way on that one. Found it 2 days later after ordering another spring.
Wonderful! There are so few gunsmiths today that can work on a revolver and do it well and with confidence. I have a Colt New Service that I would love to have you fix but there is a story that has to go with it. Just a wonderful presentation.
I have a Colt New Service that is slightly out of time. Spits a bit of lead.
I think I could just drink coffee and watch you work for hours and find it very interesting. There are so many little things that can help. Great video thanks!
“Why are we even doing this?”
So many of my days have started with this exact question. I absolutely love your content my friend. ✌️👍🇺🇸
A joy to watch a Master at work!
whether or not the information you provide pertains to me directly or indirectly I always find it fascinating, thanks Mark.
''It is one thing to know these things thru prior trial & error.
Yet it is entirely another to show & teach them.
And a further third - to do them with both passion & comparative humor.''
-Former US Paratrooper Sgt. William 'Rock' Gilpin 82nd Abn. Div. '71---'74.
As a fellow Paratrooper 10 yrs. my senior once quoted...
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." ~Jimi Hendrix
M.K. Obligements from this Lone Star State & our two blood baptized Texans Crockett & Bowie.
Great video Mark.
I learned so much in this video
Great episode. The geometry of a S&W revolver is elegant.
Thanks Mark...I've worked on this very model many years ago for a gentleman who wanted it old mil-spec Parkerized instead of redone and hot blued...that was a job of work! That steel was not sponge its the real stuff! It Parkerized so smooth and even I was mind blown. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Khunhousens books are on my top shelf...and that Dremel comment was outstanding sir!
Cant get enough of your work Mr. Novak! Thanks so much for taking the time sir!
Great video! I thoroughly enjoy your content. Your rabbit hole adventures brew many more questions. Like making a S&W 357 handle 9mm with moon clips or how to execute a killer Novak trigger polish job while you are fishing around with the fire controls. The best part is when you look right at me and remind my evil twin "Bubba" not to do Bubba things and then demonstrate the right way to go about it....priceless!
So, because of my lifelong struggle with depression, I promised my partner I wouldn't have a gun in the house (a promise I made decades ago at this point). Your channel is one of the ways I have to explore my fascination with firearms and feel like I kinda almost know the tiniest bit of something. So thank you.
Not even a .22 rimfire? I struggle with bipolar #2 and I'd be lying if I said I never looked at that box of 00 FliteControl and thought about something sad. But...the only reason for that is because done right, there's nearly no chance of me waking up in the ER. A .22LR poses a really big chance of that, and that is my absolute worst nightmare. Surviving is my most horrible nightmare imaginable, so I wouldn't try anything using less than 00 buck or maybe 8mm Mauser. The risk of failure is too great. So, I know for me personally, having a 10/22 would make no difference to me because I would never try to use that for something sad. I'd turn my gaze immediately to much more reliable things to minimize my risk of my worst fear coming true. 🤷🏻♂️ Luckily my mental health is excellent now and I have been treating it for almost a decade now. :) There's still love for me to make on Earth, and people to help in life. I can understand if you made a sealed and stamped promise to your partner long ago and don't wish to break it, but I guess I'm just giving food for thought. A Ruger Mark III in a safe that your partner keeps the combo for and only opens it for range time? 🤷🏻♂️ Could work. You know yourself the best. You're a strong fella, clearly, to be able to keep that promise for decades now. 💪 Keep going!
@@mannys9130 Yeah. It was a very broad promise made when I was a 19-year-old tomboy in love. We've talked about it since then, but they really don't want to take the risk. It's fine, I have a few shooting friends I can go out with if I really want to (and we can line up our schedules).
I wish you happy trails.
Learn and grow in your fascination and may your partner be understanding and supportive.
Great info, Mark. Love to watch your work. I have one of those old Smiths and it spins and works as smooth as glass.
This is a great video- not so much to convince someone that they really want to take their gun to a proper gunsmith, but it’s also great just demonstrating the inner workings of a revolver in detail.
I like your "better way of doing it." Thank you so much for making these vids. I really appreciate your attention to detail and unique explanations. Each episode is a joy to watch.
"One glitch in time shaves, misaligns.
Do the Maintenance!"
I still have my Anvil T-shirt proudly hanging in my closet, Mark. :) I love you.
Working on wheelguns is a whole new level
Just watched this video, and being a giddy fanboy of the 1917 revolver, in all of its glorious iterations, and as a gunsmith evolving, I loved it! Your technical knowledge and skills are so clearly evident that I immediately subscribed and became a giddy fanboy of your channel!
I WILL be going through your video catalog because even a knuckle dragger like myself understands that I understand not nearly enough! Oh how I wish that you could have been one of my instructors in gunsmithing school . . . . 🤔 Well, finding your channel late is most certainly better than never! Be well.
This video was so good! Explained with video and explanation the inner workings of the older S&W revolver. Thank you.
The interloper.... Great video, I only have one S&W but it makes me like it a little more. Outstanding.
The auto rim came out in 1920 to cure all these problems,I didn't know about them until a couple years ago myself. Thanks much"
You answered a bunch of questions about timing I’ve had on a few revolvers I’ve worked on. Your elevator door analogy made me laugh! SPOT ON!
Great detail. I have never removed the side plates on my Smith revolvers, so it’s nice an expert explain how they work.
Love the work You and Bruno put into these videos. Great episode.
Great demo, this was the first video I’ve seen where I actually see the early models where the round drops in, others discuss it but they didn’t have one of the early models to demo
As a pistol-smith and S&W armorer for over 45 yrs I was happy to see a close up of you doing this job. The timing indeed was off due in part to the loose and wobbly frame pins and you tightening them was correct. Once tight however, it would have been even more prudent to slightly stake them which locks them more securely in place. A pin gauge to measure the corresponding bearing hole of those pins in the side plate would determine if staking and thus tightening those holes would be necessary to further negate any more slop. Good job !!!! A word of caution to your channel subscribers, IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND JUST PLAYING AROUND, STAY OUT OF IT.
I was wondering about staking after I saw the pins wobble😂😂
Thanks. I only show what I'm doing, not necessarily step by step. And as you said, I said also. DONT
Obligatory WOW for another awesome episode.
fantastic and very professional 'old skool' gunsmithing on a nice S&W revolver. Love it !!!👌
Springs, you know they left! All you can do is close your eyes and pray you can hear where they went. I work on guns in the house (thank my wife) and the carpet eats springs like the front hedges ate baseballs when i was a kid.
Excellent information. I don't mess with the internals of a Smith but I know if I ever have to, I can go back to this video. You are, in my opinion, the best gun smith I've encountered and I'm an old man who has seen some. Thanks for what you do and sharing your knowledge. Off the subject entirely, by the way, I sure would like to see you play some more piano.
Mark is a master, in skill and instruction.
BRAVO ZULU !!!
You had me on the edge of my recliner cheering you on!!!
Thank you...
Chuck in Michigan
Your videos are fantastic! Love how you explain, show how everything works and why.
Thank you for continuing to share you knowledge with us. Love me a good S&W.
lol I learn something from every one of your videos. I never paid attention to how the cylinder release disengages the catch at the front of the ejector rod. 😎. Now I know.
Whenever I replace parts, I save the old ones. Yesterday a rifle bolt ejector and spring attempted to reach escape velocity. I know which corner of my little shop they landed in but it’s a jumble. I have a little box with baggies and dividers for parts for this rifle and inside were another ejector and spring I’d replaced with an “enhanced” version on a very similar rifle. Bingo! I could move forward. I might find that spring and ejector someday soon, but maybe not…
P.S. remember that roll pins are 1-time use parts. Buy spares - more than you think you’ll need.
Yet another wonderful tutorial. Thanks Mark.
I always look forward to your videos! Thank you for another great one!
21:38 "And I sure aren't doing it with a Dremel." And now we know what the bastard lovechild of Peewee Herman and Bobcat Goldthwait sounds like. :-)
Yep...Barney from "The Simpsons"
Great video, thanks. Amazing how many little bits and bobs are in a revolver.
Mark, once again, THANK YOU for the knowledge!
I've got 50 45 auto rim cases setting in my reloading room. Picked them up just because.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge with us Mark.
Thank you Sir for another fine video. This was truly amazing to watch a master work. Cheers 🍻
truly enjoy your videos ,mark..
The old hombres who worked at Colt and Smith & Wesson in those days were some serious cats, almost like watchmakers. The inspectors allowed zero BS. Result? My great grandfather could go to the hardware store in those days and buy a world class US-made revolver for about $30 bucks.
Best breakdown and explanation I've ever seen on one of these. Thank You Sir!!! Many 👍👍👍👍👍 To You
Thanks, Mark! This episode was especially interesting!
I believe the cylinder pin knurling with the groove may be left hand thread. Consult your Smith shop manual before loosening this fitting. As mentioned here the threads are VERY delicate!
The cylinder stop is not the bolt. The bolt is the thumb release. You may be able to dump the empties with s slap. Really good info and work.
I have had several of these model 17's over the years and love them. One that I have is a 1937 made for Brazil. It gave me a time finding the tiny spring on cylinder release as it was buried in crap in the hole. If you plan to shot them replace the original grips or you can't hit sxxxx.
My bedside gun in a Brazilian contract version of this revolver.. I have it loaded with .45 Autorim 230 grain pure lead bullets loaded to 675 FPS. It hits to point of aim 6 oclock hold at 25 meters.. I love it and trust it. Not a magnum, but enough . They made sidearms right back then !!
I'd load to 725-750, but to each their own. It certainly wouldn't be a great pleasure to get hit with even at 675.
I have an old Webley MK4 that is chambered in 38/200 or now available .38 S&W. Fairly impotent cartridge, probably close to a 380 auto round but certainly an adequate bedside home protection round and the revolver is reliable despite its age.
Mr Byamile, I have an Enfield #2 Mk1 in 38/200. I load 148 Grain hollow base wadcutters turned backwards in 9mm Federal cases (Rare, but I acquired a bunch) . I seat them out and load them to the same pressures as the 178 grain FMJ ball military rounds.. These things are actually pretty formidable and extremely accurate. I bought a bunch of South African 38/200 with 178 grain FMJ. I would love to have one of the modern polymer framed pocket revolvers chambered for this round.
As always I can barely comprehend what you are doing but your commentary makes it fun to watch. BTW I am not going to enroll in a mail order gunsmithing course.
The Colt 1917 is one of my favorites.
I had one that was so tight that it would stick if there was any variance in the ammo. A friend was a final inspector at Colt's, and he said it was tighter than a Python. I shouldn't have sold it.
Thanks, I finally have the confidence to grind random surfaces inside my gun. I think I can improve things.
Hahaha! 😁👍
Have Dremel, will gunsmith. 🥴🥴🥴 Lol
Wow, that is a lot of work to avoid clips or 45 Auto Rim brass. It still won't eject those 45ACP. Of all revolvers my 45 ACP/AR revolvers are my favorites.
good lord this is going to be very interesting. I am finally just getting into collecting old revolvers.
Always learning from you Mark!
Mark, you are an excellent teacher! Thank you. I still don't get why this guy wanted this done though, I would have left the old girl the way she was.❤
That is a well taken care of Smith! Usually, even on really nice looking, clean guns that ejector spring is brown from the rust of moisture trapped in there.
I very much agree that if a pre 1980s Smith and Wesson has got any issues in the firing mechanism not being Very smooth, it's because of what someone did to it.
Nice video, Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
I learn so much from you , thanks Mark
Smith wheel gun gunsmith is one of the most satisfying things in the world. Always great in person or on video
Wonderful work, this is a master of guns!
I do not think the S&W granddads are rolling in their graves. Your presentation and commentary, as I heard it, are outstanding! Semper Fi
Thank you sir, excellent as usual.
I have a box of new 45 auto rim brass that's waiting for a revolver to come to me at a cheap price. I just love how the new guns are build just like the old ones. 100+ year old design perfected
🤣 that's an enthusiast right there! A $50 box of brass justifies a $1000+/- purchase.
Love it, now to find a 1953 Buick Super to go with the hubcap I found 😀
Thanks for showing the inner workings on that Mateba. I always thought it was a genius design that should had taken off. But we Americans stick to what we know. Too bad, cuz i would love to have one. God Bless.
I've learned a bunch of stuff from you that I use in my blacksmithing business. thanks
Most do not know how easily the metal moves, but we do.....
Yes, I was an idjit and tried to fix my Dad's 1955 vintage SW Special myself. I wish that I had access to this video before I started and wouldn't have tried myself. Fortunately, a local gunsmith cleaned my screw ups and at a good price. It works like a champ again...but I still prefer my 1911s both full size and Browning 22.
thank you for your videos, sir.
Enjoyable.. I am waiting for you to tackle an old Colt with a worn short hand. Making new cylinder hands is such fun.. :)
Hmmm...a guy learns something new every day. It had been my understanding that the Smith 1917 had the stepped cylinders from the start of production, and the first 50k or so Colts had the straight through cylinder bores...Just last week I bought a Colt 1917 that was a frame and bag of parts. Never had a revolver apart before, and I'm glad I started with the Colt, much simpler than the Smith it seems. One other point about the cylinder - even the stepped cylinder should have the clearance at the rear to use moon clips, the one in my Colt 1917 certainly does.
The Colt 1917 I inherited from my Father does not have a stepped cylinder. I believe it was purchased sometime in the early 50s. It does have clearance at the rear of the cylinder for half moon clips