Subaru dealers are doing $1.5k below MSRP. Honda dealers are asking for $7k or more over MSRP. So a Premium WRX with Harman Kardon and sunroof option end up with the same price as SI. That's why I bought a WRX!
I love my WRX. My dealer had the same 5k MSRP market adjustment price in the Si and WRX 2k below MSRP. That really nudged me toward the WRX way easier. Only con I have is the fuel economy for the class. I average about 25 mpg combined. That is just a little bit better than my Honda Passport. I suppose the similar HP figures account for this? Either way, each time I drive the: cold start up is awesome, feels like it’s on rails, and feels faster than it is. Maybe check out the WRX TR if you don’t plan to mod the car.
All dealers within 400 miles of me had a $5k markup on Civic Si, so I bought the Wrx for MSRP instead. My base model was actually cheaper than the Si. So nuts in this economy.
Agreed I saw a dealer with 15k in markup it's so hard to imagine why a $40 000 si is worth buying but people do it these cars are pointless at that high a pricd
These were the two cars I've been considering, in the same respective colors no less! It was a tough choice, but I ordered the blue WRX Premium, manual of course, for the power, handling, and awd. I don't think you can go wrong with either car.
I just did the same! Originally was shopping for an Si because it was cheaper (in msrp) but every dealer I could find with one wanted $40k out the door. Decided to call up my Subaru dealer we bought our ascent from and they agreed to come off $1k so I ordered a blue Limited for less out the door than the Si after all the dealer markup and dealer add ons the Si.
@@gabrielmarquez3899 definitely! I would have got the Si for the cost savings but all my dealers around me wanted a $5k markup and then were adding $7k of dealer added junk (tint, low jack, pinstripe, paint protection, etc…)
I’ve had my WRX GT for about a month now. It feels almost as quick as my ‘15 STi, it handles better, the CVT is good (once you give yourself time to learn it) and the adaptive dampers make the ride really nice. The “ugly” cladding is damn near essential to protect the paint if you drive the car on dirt roads like I do. The 11 speaker stereo thumps. The Recaro seat is comfortable for my 5’8”, 160 lb frame, but the bolstering is a bit aggressive for my wife’s mid-40’s bubble butt. Oh, and I like the fact the rear spoiler is so subtle. It’ll be a decent “sleeper” when I tune it. This car is leaps and bounds better in almost every way than my STi was. The only thing FWD Hondas are good for where I live is marking the ditch in the winter.
@jimmyglea I've driven Civic's for 23 years in the Great White North, I've never seen the ditch. Never even been stuck. The main thing is having good winter tires which you need whether you have awd or fwd. Having said that, I am picking up a 6mt wrx sport tech on Dec 23rd. I love Honda, but my local dealer has been pissing me off so I have decided to give Subaru a shot.
I did the same thing. The WRX was MSRP and the dealer added stuff like STI short throw shifter and a bunch of other stuff. The SI had a huge Markup at the time which would have made the SI far more expensive. Its going to take many years for the gas usage to make up for what the amount of money I saved.
I'm glad the point was made about how there's very few of these types of vehicles left. I have my complaints about these cars just like everyone else, but I feel like most people are quick to write these off, and say they'll wait for the next refresh, not realizing there probably won't be another refresh.
Just ordered my WRX today. I feel like its going to be a good investment because the STI is no longer a thing (atleast with a combustion engine) and i feel like the same will happen with the WRX soon. We are seeing the last year/years of a manual trans combustion Subaru sportscar.
@@mistamaog next STI will only be electric. WRX might go that way as well soon. Also was told by dealer Golf GTIs wont be available in manual next year
@@8JFJK8 I'm pretty sure the manual Golf GTI won't go away until the next generation. But regardless I basically have it set in my head that by 2030, all new manual cars will be gone. So I have until then to decide what car i want.
Apparently Honda is fudging those HP and TQ numbers a bit, I've seen videos and reports that the Si's are dynoing at or above those numbers at the wheels.
I have a 2018 Si with 65,000 miles that I purchased for $22,000. I average 36 MPG daily driving and have pulled off 44 MPG highway. Still love driving it to this day.
Lots of us that have always driven manuals,but due to age and injuries and can no longer drive a clutch are greatful that the WRX has the cvt so we can still enjoy an enthusiast car.
The problem with trying to maximize MPG on the WRX is that Subaru is very strongly married to their symmetrical all wheel drive system. Unlike other AWD cars, it has full-time AWD. That means that the whole architecture of the chassis and drivetrain are designed to drive all four wheels 100% of the time. Most "AWD" cars, even the fire breathing CLA45 AMG, are based on a FWD platform, which then adds a drive shaft which can route power (usually up to 50%) to the rear wheels. That means for all intents and purposes, most AWD cars these days are front-wheel-drive most of the time. They only allow the rear wheels to kick in when the fronts lose grip. So they get FWD fuel economy while also getting the benefits of AWD grip in straight line acceleration. What those AWD systems FAIL to do, however, is maintain grip under a variety of conditions, terrain, or heavy performance driving. In buying a WRX, you're trading fuel economy for a full-time AWD system. Is it necessary in California? Probably not. But it sure does wonders in the snow belt areas.
@@Skier10 I've had a guy get outright mad that I said the WRX/STI has the best AWD system short of something like an S4 or RS3. He wasn't happy with the fact that his CLA45 has Mercedes' version of the haldex found in VW group cars. I never even said his car was BAD, just that the AWD system specifically doesn't match up to Subaru or Audi's REAL Quattro setup found in the S4 and above. Plenty of haldex cars are batshit fast. The 45 AMG cars are prime examples. But they just ain't gonna handle the way a full-time system would.
@@BahhJustaLamb That's funny. Seems like Mercedes folks tend to be overly sensitive on this topic as I know one as well who gets bent out shape when told his awd doesn't match the Subaru system. I guess they're just above being thought of being substandard to a Subaru in any way. lol
I'd take the WRX- but would also get a set of all season tires. It surprises me that Subaru puts summer only tires on the non-STI versions of the WRX. I just want a decent manual transmission. It doesn't mean I'm doing autocross.
...the summer rubber is so the car will do better in magazine/video testing...it's a passive way of "cheating" to give the illusion of higher performance...
I personally wish more makes would put summers on sporty cars. All seasons are mediocre in summer and Terrible in snow, especially on something like a wrx that becomes so fun in winter with proper tires?
I live in PNW (Seattle) so we do get icy roads during winter but even now that is fall I can feel the summer tires start to slips. I am currently waiting for my Michelin Pilot Sport 4s All Season to get delivered in the nearest Costco store in my place and might just keep it all year since it has raving reviews with dry, wet and icy roads performance. I just hope that Subaru do what Honda does where they put all season as the main tires and you can get $200 upgrade charge if you want summer tires. I think summer tires mostly will work if you live in AZ, FL, CA and TX or you are the type of person who likes to switch their tires for summer and winter.
I test drove both. I really like the Civic Si. But I would do the WRX all day every day over the Civic. Aside from Gas mileage, WRX just kicks ass. I'm surprised at all of the lukewarm reviews on it. It's a great car IMO. But, it's subjective to a large degree. Both are great cars.
Well, I'm not sure that an Si competes with a WRX. WRX shoppers generally want AWD. If the Si were AWD, it likely would be the winner for me. And, if I go Acura to get the AWD, the car becomes a fat big 4,000 pounds. Both have great tuning potential. The Honda engine can easily go up to 400hp without a rebuild. The new FA24 can probably go to 350hp without a whole lot. But, the boxer is a more complex engine to build. Also, everything costs double regarding the heads. All the electrical stuff doesn't matter to me. And, Subaru knows WRX buyers like me don't usually give a darn about all those BS "Features," which is why it doesn't have them. Why pay for something I'm just going to turn off/deactivate anyway? And NO, I don't want all that crap "Standard." That's part of what stops me from buying a lot of cars. It's all a waste of money.
l test drive a 2023 WRX and l loved it, 2 days later i buy one, 6 speed mahalo. I always drive manual and for last 10 years l been driving automatics. l knew manuals are getting hard to find these days so l pulled the trigger and so happy to drive my WRX
Just checked out both these cars today. Honda unfortunately had a $10k mark-up. We went to two different Honda dealerships and the SI was significantly marked up. So much that the Acura Integra is actually cheaper without mark-ups. On the other hand I've found local dealerships have the WRX at MSRP or advertised with $1000 off!!! So this should be more of a comparison between the Integra A spec and the WRX Premium as they're much closer in our the door price!!
Meh to both cars. Subaru is overpriced, the civic engine will have issues in the long run with a tiny 1.5 turbo. Honda should have stayed with a NA and increased to 220hp.
@@po.russki they told me. I kept calling several dealers (about 50) and non of them could even order. Then this dealer told me he would call me back as soon as the orders would open. I insisted he keep refreshing the page and kept him on the phone for over an hour until some of the 22 WRX info started posting. Pricing hadn’t even posted so I kept making the manager refresh the page until pricing popped up around 11am. He then asked me to bare with him since I will be the first order and we got through. This particular dealer has several other Subaru dealers and they confirmed I was the first order on the new WRX. Then hours later about a dozen dealers called me back saying orders had just gone up but I had already ordered hours prior. Orders opened up at 1pm but I had already ordered by 11am 💪 had originally planned WRB color but when I found out there was a newer blue I went with the Sapphire option. Which trim? I had planned on base model since I only drive three miles a day but decided I would like the nicer interior and wheels. Props to you too 🤝 did you pay msrp as well?
Kind of sounded like a Honda commercial. Maybe it really is better. Who knows. It does look nice. I bought the WRX anyway. At 12psi boost, it has room for tuning. The little 1.5 liter Honda is stressed a lot more than the Subaru. At the end of the day, it’s what each person wants out of their car. Some of the comparable features don’t mean as much in real life. It’s great to see them compared, but sentiment, passion and personal taste end up making the decisions for me.
Si for me. More refined and the plastic cladding on the WRX is hideous. Good winter tires have got me through Canadian winters so far, so no issues on the FWD either.
@@layne4376 I’m sure it is and the 2021 WRX would probably be make it a harder choice, though if I started opening it up to other cars a 2021 Golf R would probably be at the top.
@@layne4376 Yeah, there’s that too. Even a used GTI from a year or two ago can end up being more than the Si. Kinda crazy how much all the more affordable performance cars have gone up in price.
I’ve stomped all over Si’s with my 22 WRX! The Si gets blown away because of the 2.4 flat torque curve! Don’t need revs to accelerate quickly in the WRX! Plus the torque stays high from 2500-5500 rpms. Si has no chance with that tiny 1.5! I wanted an Si until I test drove them both.
I am the opposite. I wanted a wrx until I test drove a wrx, then the civic back to back. It was night and day. I didn’t want to sit high up in a bouncey ass car with tons of body roll, paired with a rubbery feeling stick shift and a terrible interior with a triangle window in front of the regular window next to the driver like an old mini van 😂. WRXs are TRASH. Felt like I was driving a truck. Civic is planted, no body roll, awesome feeling notchy stick shift with Waaaaaaay better gas mileage. Have fun with that 25 mpg!
I would like to see an in depth review of the WRX GT. Everyone is automatically bemoaning the CVT, but I'm curious what Subaru was able to do with it. Its not the same calibration as in the Outback or something - I've read that much. Quite a few tweaks.
I drive an old si now, but my urban commute is giving me high blood pressure lol. Subaru is really saying the CVT is going to be performance oriented and I’d love to give it a try.
Yes, bemoaning for good reason. Subaru is forcing drivers to settle w/the CVT to get better tech and seats. They say that the CVT opens the car up to a broader market (look at Levorg sales in other markets)...but what they are really doing is moving away from performance. They are only involved (loosely) in Vermont rally racing. I would really like to see Subaru put their money where their mouth is an (Vermont) rally their precious GT-CVT. Prove to me/everyone that it is better...
@@K03sport All I said was I was curious how it does. It may be a P.O.S. but then again they may surprise people. Its just there aren't any reviews out for it so who knows? From what I understand there are production issues/shortages and they've only been making manuals.
@@K03sport You forgot to mention that government regulations are forcing car companies to improve their fuel efficiency/emissions numbers which is why I believe Subaru wants to sell you a CVT over a manual and which is why there is no STi. Subaru has mentioned the next iteration of the STi will be hybrid or fully electric.
I owned an 02 WRX fully raced out. Loved that car. But I test drove the 2018 Si and bought it. It handles better and is actually more fun to drive. I was shocked it was a FWD car.
Don't forget if you tried, you get double gas mileage on the SI over subbie. So what it doesn't have awd, you get a mechanical LSD for the front tires, makes it fun!
I’ve driven both and own the WRX. The Si is significantly slower and needs more revs to accelerate hard. The WRX walks all over the Si. I’ve destroyed 2 of them since I bought this WRX!
Yeah, I quit watching about halfway through when I realized he was nitpicking the Subaru for everything and had almost nothing negative to say about the civic. It's like, we get it, you guys don't like Subarus. You don't need this much air time to say it.
Honda Civic Si is my first choice of the two... but I have to say when I saw how many extra features come on the Canadian version for the same price, I was really disappointed.
@@jayman81424 Honda Pro Jason has a video about the differences. There's at least 10 things they get, like fog lights and dual zone climate control... oh yeah... and one he doesn't mention... they don't pay extra for the Blazing Orange color.
I used to absolutely say no to auto CVT but I bought a 2022 legacy with the FB25/8spdCVT I keep up with civic SI and I get avg 37.8mpg on the hwy and 24.8 city I would actually get a CVT. The previous cvt on the wrx could handle 360tq and 340ish HP that’s very streetable and damn near perfect for a daily that’s fun Good review all in all
Sorry not having eyesight is a good thing. Adds cost to purchase and adds to repair costs down the road as these system so have problems for all makes. Plus if you are paying attention to your driving, which everyone should be doing, they are just an annoyance not a help.
I owned 2020 si, yesterday I took a test drive on 2023 wrx. This car make me to smile whole day, talk only about it and dream only about it. It is solid race machine. After wrx- so is just a Coca Cola can! Looking for money to buy wax ASAP
I drove both and the WRX is significantly quicker and doesn’t need the annoying higher revs to move quick. I got my WRX $500 below MSRP so bye bye Honda Civic Si
Fuel economy and premium fuel costs on WRX are scary. Currently am driving 2015 WRX driving it for 6 years. Loved every bit of it. Next car won't be WRX though fuel costs are crazy. Maybe forester or impreza hatch
If you get a current WRX the person in that demographic is not worried about premium fuel cost or the mpg of the WRX. A WRX owner wants the fun and exclusivity of the car, there may be 2500 WRX models shipped to the U.S. maybe...
Honda does not have an automatic because multiple versions of the Civic have one. The WRX if it did not offer an automatic, there is no other version that would have one. Ergo, the WRX has an automatic, the Civic Si does not. To complain about offering an automatic makes me question the reviewer, why waste time complaining about that? Considering I live in a heavy snow area on a mountain, we don't have a choice - we need AWD or 4-wheel drive. Also, comparing an AWD gas mileage to FWD is never fair - but he has no problem doing it. Honda with its resources and Subaru which is much smaller, I am surprised he gives Subaru any credit at all.
I know all the hate on the CVT. Go check out some vids on actual long term ownership on the WRX CVT. Lots of praise actually. This one is supposed to be better so maybe it is decent? I'd like to drive one to see. But yea, for $43,000, I'm getting a used Stinger GT2 AWD instead of a new CVT WRX.
appreciated the comparison... but can we please get more than one song for a 20+ minute video. Same tune on repeat starts to detract from the review after the 3rd looping of it
No auto for me, only auto that is good in this segment is the Volkswagen R auto. But really like my 2015 WRX, bought it fist year it came out. Hope the audio sounds better in the 2022 WRX. The only color I like it in is the gray..the cladding does not stick out as bad!!
You can mod a wrx too you know. And the wrx has massively superior grip to handle the extra power. Also the best re-sale value in its class. The extra you spend on gas, you'll get back in re-sale value.
Wrx is 271 horse power AWD and it start at 30k in Canada. The Honda civic si is FWD and has 200 horse power and it start at 40k in Canada. Personally, the choice was easy to make. However, I understand that some people prefer the look of the SI and the interior of that car is really nice. Ultimately, I believe both car are great, but I still prefer the wrx and it's more affordable than the SI. Great vid btw
stop comparing an AWD to a FWD, you lose all creditbility right off the top. Nobody wants a Civic in winter town when you could have the Subaru, so stop the nonsense.
The civic is nice. I've always loved a good SI, but the interior is kinda... odd imo. I went with the WRX, plus a FF just isn't my favorite platform. Both are cool cars though, for sure.
Buy winter tires. Drive for conditions. Don't go out if it is really bad. My mk4 GTI handled CO and OH winters on Michelin all seasons; no reason the Si couldn't do the same... Driving for conditions is a biggie most ppl overlook...
Interesting how VW slots the GLI between these two cars. GLI seats in-between the WRX and SI in price and in the power department. Probably has the best interior minus the steering wheel controls. This is a three horse race and you can't mention one, without the other two.
civic has better interior hands down, there's just more soft-touch points and knobs and buttons are satisfying and it looks really minimalistic and clean.
I can't believe I'm writing this, but at almost 40, the Civic Si is more appealing to me. An LSD, better interior and fit/finish, an underrated engine, and enough space for tuning. I think they've got me...
I can't get over that silly body cladding. I wanted to like the wrx more. The si is just such a great car that I'm not sure I'd miss the power or awd of the Subaru.
Just like the new Integra with manual only in the top trim And Supra with its manual barely arriving in 2023 I think manufacturers purposely miss the mark on options in order to people new reasons to continue buying their cars. They want to sell the same amount of cares every year instead of having a car that is only hot for a couple of years.
Increase the cost, put some more horsepower into the car Honda. Cmon 0-60 in 6.8 seconds (per car and driver) is .2 seconds slower than na mazda 3 w fwd.
Even though the wrx has about 70 hp more, it is worth considering the wrx also weights about 600 lbs more. power to weight ratio of these two cars is almost the same.
It's a little less than a 500 pound difference between a wrx premium with manual compared to the si. It is also worth considering that awd adds considerable weight, but also considerable grip. Which is why the wrx launches to 60 in the mid 5's and does the 1/4 mile in high 13's. Whereas, the Si goes to 60 in high 6's and 1/4 in 15 flat. Power to weight ratio don't mean shit when you're just spinning tires. And if you live in environment that sees a lot of rain and snow, the insane grip of the wrx is a huge advantage.
@@steve8803 For launching yeah i will agree. I think for snow and rain the concept of AWD is overrated. My friends cobalt SS with studded snow tires is MUCH more drive able in the New England winter than both of my family's AWD SUVs with all-season tires. Regardless, the WRX is far too heavy in my opinion.The WRX comes in at 3500~ lbs versus 2900~ for a Civic SI. The mazda 3 only gains 150~lbs going from FWD to AWD so there is definitely a lot more to the weight of the wrx than just awd.
@@molethan6138 the WRX premium with manual is 3403 pounds. Might as well be honest in that it is slightly less than a 500 pound difference. The Subaru also uses a REAL permanent symmetrical AWD system that is vastly superior to the Mazda. A Subaru with winter tires will perform significantly better in snow than an si with the same winter tires.
@Molethan Mazda's AWD system in the 3 is not on all the time. It only kicks in when it senses slippage. But at that point, it has already slipped. Subaru's is on at all times, greatly reducing the chances of slippage occurring to begin with. You should read up on all the different types of AWD systems different manufacturers use. They're not all the same.
@@steve8803 bruh i literally went off the wiki which said 3505, so whatever. Doesnt change the fact the WRX is ridiculously heavy for being a "compact" car. And my other point is just saying i think AWD is generally overrated. It adds cost,complexity, and weight with the only meaningful benefit being acceleration from a stop. I mean the actual WRX is meant for off-road rally, but 99% of owners never take their cars to that environment. And on tarmac tracks, 2wd cars have a distinct advantage where being light weight is king.
I have a 2023 WRX and my average MPG is 29.5, 32 HWY and 25 in the city. I tend to drive with the price of gas in mind. If I push the car 19 city and 23 highway. Much better then reported.
I have an issue with the 200 hp in the Si. Its been 20 years. This car will cost you more than the WRX, I get it its a Honda I have loved hondas since I can remember but the Si is outdated and will cost more than a Premium WRX due to low availability.
Subaru dealers are doing $1.5k below MSRP. Honda dealers are asking for $7k or more over MSRP. So a Premium WRX with Harman Kardon and sunroof option end up with the same price as SI. That's why I bought a WRX!
I’m about to do the same thing.
Now subaru is giving 2500 off
I love my WRX. My dealer had the same 5k MSRP market adjustment price in the Si and WRX 2k below MSRP. That really nudged me toward the WRX way easier. Only con I have is the fuel economy for the class. I average about 25 mpg combined. That is just a little bit better than my Honda Passport. I suppose the similar HP figures account for this? Either way, each time I drive the: cold start up is awesome, feels like it’s on rails, and feels faster than it is. Maybe check out the WRX TR if you don’t plan to mod the car.
I don’t fill up until I travelled at least 300 miles. I think the most I went was about 360.
WRX needs premium gas and less mpgs than Si
All dealers within 400 miles of me had a $5k markup on Civic Si, so I bought the Wrx for MSRP instead. My base model was actually cheaper than the Si. So nuts in this economy.
Agreed I saw a dealer with 15k in markup it's so hard to imagine why a $40 000 si is worth buying but people do it these cars are pointless at that high a pricd
That’s not adding the packages they add to the car , the non negotiable Package they have is like 3k for every car , Hondas own scam tactic
@@ryandevlin3057 Honda the manufacturer has nothing to do with that. Blame the dealers.
Did the same thing
Yep, just went to two dealers for the SI and they were $6-10k marked up. The Acura Integra is actually cheaper!!
These were the two cars I've been considering, in the same respective colors no less! It was a tough choice, but I ordered the blue WRX Premium, manual of course, for the power, handling, and awd. I don't think you can go wrong with either car.
I just did the same! Originally was shopping for an Si because it was cheaper (in msrp) but every dealer I could find with one wanted $40k out the door. Decided to call up my Subaru dealer we bought our ascent from and they agreed to come off $1k so I ordered a blue Limited for less out the door than the Si after all the dealer markup and dealer add ons the Si.
what do you think is better about the Honda by comparison?
@@John-vh1fk damn I got lucky, family owns a dealership and got it for msrp, blessed situation.
@@gabrielmarquez3899 definitely! I would have got the Si for the cost savings but all my dealers around me wanted a $5k markup and then were adding $7k of dealer added junk (tint, low jack, pinstripe, paint protection, etc…)
Thanks for bringing up mark up on Si it's everywhere! Meanwhile I ordered a wrx too for msrp at the closest dealer
I’ve had my WRX GT for about a month now. It feels almost as quick as my ‘15 STi, it handles better, the CVT is good (once you give yourself time to learn it) and the adaptive dampers make the ride really nice. The “ugly” cladding is damn near essential to protect the paint if you drive the car on dirt roads like I do. The 11 speaker stereo thumps. The Recaro seat is comfortable for my 5’8”, 160 lb frame, but the bolstering is a bit aggressive for my wife’s mid-40’s bubble butt. Oh, and I like the fact the rear spoiler is so subtle. It’ll be a decent “sleeper” when I tune it. This car is leaps and bounds better in almost every way than my STi was. The only thing FWD Hondas are good for where I live is marking the ditch in the winter.
You’re the goat, people definitely sleeping on the luxury the GT offers!
@jimmyglea I've driven Civic's for 23 years in the Great White North, I've never seen the ditch. Never even been stuck. The main thing is having good winter tires which you need whether you have awd or fwd. Having said that, I am picking up a 6mt wrx sport tech on Dec 23rd. I love Honda, but my local dealer has been pissing me off so I have decided to give Subaru a shot.
Gayyyyyyy
I did the same thing. The WRX was MSRP and the dealer added stuff like STI short throw shifter and a bunch of other stuff. The SI had a huge Markup at the time which would have made the SI far more expensive. Its going to take many years for the gas usage to make up for what the amount of money I saved.
@@steve8803 I agree completely about the tires. But, add mountain driving to Great White North winter conditions…you’ll never go back to FWD.
I'm glad the point was made about how there's very few of these types of vehicles left. I have my complaints about these cars just like everyone else, but I feel like most people are quick to write these off, and say they'll wait for the next refresh, not realizing there probably won't be another refresh.
Your comment made me sad because it's true. Have loved these kind of cars since I was a kid. I feel lucky to have owned a couple in my lifetime.
Just ordered my WRX today. I feel like its going to be a good investment because the STI is no longer a thing (atleast with a combustion engine) and i feel like the same will happen with the WRX soon. We are seeing the last year/years of a manual trans combustion Subaru sportscar.
@@8JFJK8 It's definitely tempting me for whenever I'm able to get a new car
@@mistamaog next STI will only be electric. WRX might go that way as well soon. Also was told by dealer Golf GTIs wont be available in manual next year
@@8JFJK8 I'm pretty sure the manual Golf GTI won't go away until the next generation. But regardless I basically have it set in my head that by 2030, all new manual cars will be gone. So I have until then to decide what car i want.
Apparently Honda is fudging those HP and TQ numbers a bit, I've seen videos and reports that the Si's are dynoing at or above those numbers at the wheels.
@Hollywood Lurking why do you say that
@@shaloon64
220 at the wheels. Honda is notorious for reporting lower numbers than reality. I don't know why this is.
The Subaru not having all those driver interference/annoyance features is a plus for the WRX not a negative.
Absolutely
New civic is nice, but AWD is a must for me, so Subaru it is. Not the best looking, but it’s a dying breed, so I’m happy it even exists as a new gen.
Great comment 👍 and Great choice 👍
I could get over the wheel arches but that diaper on the back is unforgivable.
"Not the best looking" is quite the understatement.
So, why not winter tires?
I think they look great
I'm going with WRX. Its a rally car w/ all wheel drive.
The WRX is sooooo much better . 71 more hp and AWD . It’s a no brainer
Its also 500lbs heavier
I have a 2018 Si with 65,000 miles that I purchased for $22,000. I average 36 MPG daily driving and have pulled off 44 MPG highway. Still love driving it to this day.
I will take the look of the Civic Si with the performance of the WRX!
Just drove the 2022 wrx today. Hwy fluctuated between 11 L/100 and 5 L/100 depending on slope of road. Real world numbers better than the specs.
Lots of us that have always driven manuals,but due to age and injuries and can no longer drive a clutch are greatful that the WRX has the cvt so we can still enjoy an enthusiast car.
The problem with trying to maximize MPG on the WRX is that Subaru is very strongly married to their symmetrical all wheel drive system.
Unlike other AWD cars, it has full-time AWD. That means that the whole architecture of the chassis and drivetrain are designed to drive all four wheels 100% of the time.
Most "AWD" cars, even the fire breathing CLA45 AMG, are based on a FWD platform, which then adds a drive shaft which can route power (usually up to 50%) to the rear wheels.
That means for all intents and purposes, most AWD cars these days are front-wheel-drive most of the time. They only allow the rear wheels to kick in when the fronts lose grip. So they get FWD fuel economy while also getting the benefits of AWD grip in straight line acceleration.
What those AWD systems FAIL to do, however, is maintain grip under a variety of conditions, terrain, or heavy performance driving.
In buying a WRX, you're trading fuel economy for a full-time AWD system. Is it necessary in California? Probably not. But it sure does wonders in the snow belt areas.
Well put… most don’t understand this key difference between Subaru AWD systems and why it out does almost all others.
@@Skier10 I've had a guy get outright mad that I said the WRX/STI has the best AWD system short of something like an S4 or RS3.
He wasn't happy with the fact that his CLA45 has Mercedes' version of the haldex found in VW group cars.
I never even said his car was BAD, just that the AWD system specifically doesn't match up to Subaru or Audi's REAL Quattro setup found in the S4 and above.
Plenty of haldex cars are batshit fast. The 45 AMG cars are prime examples. But they just ain't gonna handle the way a full-time system would.
@@BahhJustaLamb That's funny. Seems like Mercedes folks tend to be overly sensitive on this topic as I know one as well who gets bent out shape when told his awd doesn't match the Subaru system. I guess they're just above being thought of being substandard to a Subaru in any way. lol
I'd take the WRX- but would also get a set of all season tires. It surprises me that Subaru puts summer only tires on the non-STI versions of the WRX. I just want a decent manual transmission. It doesn't mean I'm doing autocross.
...the summer rubber is so the car will do better in magazine/video testing...it's a passive way of "cheating" to give the illusion of higher performance...
I personally wish more makes would put summers on sporty cars. All seasons are mediocre in summer and Terrible in snow, especially on something like a wrx that becomes so fun in winter with proper tires?
I live in PNW (Seattle) so we do get icy roads during winter but even now that is fall I can feel the summer tires start to slips. I am currently waiting for my Michelin Pilot Sport 4s All Season to get delivered in the nearest Costco store in my place and might just keep it all year since it has raving reviews with dry, wet and icy roads performance. I just hope that Subaru do what Honda does where they put all season as the main tires and you can get $200 upgrade charge if you want summer tires. I think summer tires mostly will work if you live in AZ, FL, CA and TX or you are the type of person who likes to switch their tires for summer and winter.
I test drove both. I really like the Civic Si. But I would do the WRX all day every day over the Civic. Aside from Gas mileage, WRX just kicks ass. I'm surprised at all of the lukewarm reviews on it. It's a great car IMO. But, it's subjective to a large degree. Both are great cars.
Well, I'm not sure that an Si competes with a WRX. WRX shoppers generally want AWD. If the Si were AWD, it likely would be the winner for me. And, if I go Acura to get the AWD, the car becomes a fat big 4,000 pounds. Both have great tuning potential. The Honda engine can easily go up to 400hp without a rebuild. The new FA24 can probably go to 350hp without a whole lot. But, the boxer is a more complex engine to build. Also, everything costs double regarding the heads. All the electrical stuff doesn't matter to me. And, Subaru knows WRX buyers like me don't usually give a darn about all those BS "Features," which is why it doesn't have them. Why pay for something I'm just going to turn off/deactivate anyway? And NO, I don't want all that crap "Standard." That's part of what stops me from buying a lot of cars. It's all a waste of money.
yuuuup WRX wins
I’m nearly 50 with a bad leg coming out of a 2007 Corolla…I’m sure the automatic in the WRX GT will be more than adequate for me.
l test drive a 2023 WRX and l loved it, 2 days later i buy one, 6 speed mahalo. I always drive manual and for last 10 years l been driving automatics. l knew manuals are getting hard to find these days so l pulled the trigger and so happy to drive my WRX
Just checked out both these cars today. Honda unfortunately had a $10k mark-up. We went to two different Honda dealerships and the SI was significantly marked up. So much that the Acura Integra is actually cheaper without mark-ups. On the other hand I've found local dealerships have the WRX at MSRP or advertised with $1000 off!!!
So this should be more of a comparison between the Integra A spec and the WRX Premium as they're much closer in our the door price!!
I just got the SI. Can't swallow those black plastic fenders and interior design on the WRX.
how are you liking it a year in?
Meh to both cars. Subaru is overpriced, the civic engine will have issues in the long run with a tiny 1.5 turbo. Honda should have stayed with a NA and increased to 220hp.
Wrx for me, I'm loving the new design
You like that SUV look on a sport car ?
@@maitrehg each to their own
The civic to me lacks identify.
@@raymondhachmishvili2483 I agree with you. It's not the prettiest Honda I've seen.
SI looks too flat...? Something about it reminds me of a pancake
Ordered the first pre order for the 2022 WRX Sapphire in America when it came out on 2/17/22 at 11am 💪
How do you know it was the first? Lmao. I ordered a sapphire blue on 2/17 as well. Props.
@@po.russki they told me. I kept calling several dealers (about 50) and non of them could even order. Then this dealer told me he would call me back as soon as the orders would open. I insisted he keep refreshing the page and kept him on the phone for over an hour until some of the 22 WRX info started posting. Pricing hadn’t even posted so I kept making the manager refresh the page until pricing popped up around 11am. He then asked me to bare with him since I will be the first order and we got through. This particular dealer has several other Subaru dealers and they confirmed I was the first order on the new WRX. Then hours later about a dozen dealers called me back saying orders had just gone up but I had already ordered hours prior. Orders opened up at 1pm but I had already ordered by 11am 💪 had originally planned WRB color but when I found out there was a newer blue I went with the Sapphire option. Which trim? I had planned on base model since I only drive three miles a day but decided I would like the nicer interior and wheels. Props to you too 🤝 did you pay msrp as well?
@@gustavopaulette3496 What is the Estimated Delivery date for your order?
@@armandwrx April but hoping sooner
Kind of sounded like a Honda commercial. Maybe it really is better. Who knows. It does look nice.
I bought the WRX anyway. At 12psi boost, it has room for tuning. The little 1.5 liter Honda is stressed a lot more than the Subaru.
At the end of the day, it’s what each person wants out of their car. Some of the comparable features don’t mean as much in real life. It’s great to see them compared, but sentiment, passion and personal taste end up making the decisions for me.
Si for me. More refined and the plastic cladding on the WRX is hideous. Good winter tires have got me through Canadian winters so far, so no issues on the FWD either.
@@layne4376 I’m sure it is and the 2021 WRX would probably be make it a harder choice, though if I started opening it up to other cars a 2021 Golf R would probably be at the top.
@@layne4376 Yeah, there’s that too. Even a used GTI from a year or two ago can end up being more than the Si. Kinda crazy how much all the more affordable performance cars have gone up in price.
I love Hondas but the WRX is overall a better package than the Civic SI, it’s also more powerful and a lot faster so there’s that lol
Nope
I’ve stomped all over Si’s with my 22 WRX! The Si gets blown away because of the 2.4 flat torque curve! Don’t need revs to accelerate quickly in the WRX! Plus the torque stays high from 2500-5500 rpms. Si has no chance with that tiny 1.5! I wanted an Si until I test drove them both.
I am the opposite. I wanted a wrx until I test drove a wrx, then the civic back to back. It was night and day. I didn’t want to sit high up in a bouncey ass car with tons of body roll, paired with a rubbery feeling stick shift and a terrible interior with a triangle window in front of the regular window next to the driver like an old mini van 😂. WRXs are TRASH. Felt like I was driving a truck. Civic is planted, no body roll, awesome feeling notchy stick shift with Waaaaaaay better gas mileage. Have fun with that 25 mpg!
@@juelz4516we will 😘
I would like to see an in depth review of the WRX GT. Everyone is automatically bemoaning the CVT, but I'm curious what Subaru was able to do with it. Its not the same calibration as in the Outback or something - I've read that much. Quite a few tweaks.
I drive an old si now, but my urban commute is giving me high blood pressure lol. Subaru is really saying the CVT is going to be performance oriented and I’d love to give it a try.
@@rayrice2553 Exactly. I'm just curious to see a professional review of the GT with the CVT to see if their claims hold up.
Yes, bemoaning for good reason. Subaru is forcing drivers to settle w/the CVT to get better tech and seats. They say that the CVT opens the car up to a broader market (look at Levorg sales in other markets)...but what they are really doing is moving away from performance. They are only involved (loosely) in Vermont rally racing. I would really like to see Subaru put their money where their mouth is an (Vermont) rally their precious GT-CVT. Prove to me/everyone that it is better...
@@K03sport All I said was I was curious how it does. It may be a P.O.S. but then again they may surprise people. Its just there aren't any reviews out for it so who knows? From what I understand there are production issues/shortages and they've only been making manuals.
@@K03sport You forgot to mention that government regulations are forcing car companies to improve their fuel efficiency/emissions numbers which is why I believe Subaru wants to sell you a CVT over a manual and which is why there is no STi. Subaru has mentioned the next iteration of the STi will be hybrid or fully electric.
I'm going for the WRX. AWD is a must for me
Tires >>>> AWD
Can’t compare AWD with FWD .
AWD all the way. Nothing to argue here.
I owned an 02 WRX fully raced out. Loved that car. But I test drove the 2018 Si and bought it. It handles better and is actually more fun to drive. I was shocked it was a FWD car.
@Jayson Adams is that how it works? lol....
Don't forget if you tried, you get double gas mileage on the SI over subbie. So what it doesn't have awd, you get a mechanical LSD for the front tires, makes it fun!
I would love to drive somebody's WRX but I would choose to own an SI.
Same. Own the si but wanna drive a wrx
I’ve driven both and own the WRX. The Si is significantly slower and needs more revs to accelerate hard. The WRX walks all over the Si. I’ve destroyed 2 of them since I bought this WRX!
I get the feeling this guy isn't very big on Subarus..
Yeah, I quit watching about halfway through when I realized he was nitpicking the Subaru for everything and had almost nothing negative to say about the civic. It's like, we get it, you guys don't like Subarus. You don't need this much air time to say it.
Honda Civic Si is my first choice of the two... but I have to say when I saw how many extra features come on the Canadian version for the same price, I was really disappointed.
Outside of the heated steering wheel, heated seats and the full digital dash, what else is missing?
@@jayman81424 bro you just described a lot of important missing features lol.
@@db-ro6ui Eh, not really lol. But every one is different.
@@jayman81424 Honda Pro Jason has a video about the differences. There's at least 10 things they get, like fog lights and dual zone climate control... oh yeah... and one he doesn't mention... they don't pay extra for the Blazing Orange color.
The Civic SI comes standard with heated front and rear seats and a heated steering wheel in Canada.
I used to absolutely say no to auto CVT but I bought a 2022 legacy with the FB25/8spdCVT I keep up with civic SI and I get avg 37.8mpg on the hwy and 24.8 city
I would actually get a CVT. The previous cvt on the wrx could handle 360tq and 340ish HP that’s very streetable and damn near perfect for a daily that’s fun
Good review all in all
who let such shitty bg music in otherwise such perfectly narrated video with car sounds?
I like both. SI gets the nod though. $5k cheaper + nicer versus the awd and more power of the WRX.
Why is there background music when doing car reviews 💀
What they need to do is make a AWD SI, or Subaru could step up there game and make make a more fuel efficient car.
No Elantra N as competition?
Very good review. Just picked up an Si for MSRP. Everything he says is true. 38 mpg for backroads driving and a lot of fun to drive.
it safe to say he's team si he got the gear on.
Just got the WRX Prem. Saphire for $3200 off msrp
Actually to turn on “Track” mode you just turn traction control off. I thought this was hilarious. I have a black 2023 WRX. Love it.
Same here I thought it was something special but it made me laugh when the traction control turned off lol
It’s sad how far the Impreza has fallen off that it’s being compared to a Honda Civic 😂😂😂
Sorry not having eyesight is a good thing. Adds cost to purchase and adds to repair costs down the road as these system so have problems for all makes. Plus if you are paying attention to your driving, which everyone should be doing, they are just an annoyance not a help.
I owned 2020 si, yesterday I took a test drive on 2023 wrx. This car make me to smile whole day, talk only about it and dream only about it. It is solid race machine. After wrx- so is just a Coca Cola can! Looking for money to buy wax ASAP
I drove both and the WRX is significantly quicker and doesn’t need the annoying higher revs to move quick. I got my WRX $500 below MSRP so bye bye Honda Civic Si
Fuel economy and premium fuel costs on WRX are scary. Currently am driving 2015 WRX driving it for 6 years. Loved every bit of it. Next car won't be WRX though fuel costs are crazy. Maybe forester or impreza hatch
I’m getting 25mpgs mixed on every tank. I’ve never seen the epa 19mpg rating.
If you get a current WRX the person in that demographic is not worried about premium fuel cost or the mpg of the WRX. A WRX owner wants the fun and exclusivity of the car, there may be 2500 WRX models shipped to the U.S. maybe...
@@hahaadventures4838same here, way better on the highway too
No heated seats, no wireless charging, no navigation? Big dealer breakers imo. Such standard features should be at this price point.
He really said it feels nice like a Porsche, damn
I’m team Honda. Already got my 2022 Si
MSRP?
@@jameswillard1 No $35,000
Nice review. The Elantra N and Mazda 3 are also pretty direct competitors.
And the elantra in comes in manual. Should be in this review
The Elantra N is more of a type R competitor, than an SI competitor.
Mazda 3 hatch comes in manual too, yes (2.5L/187hp). The turbo 3 is auto only.
GTI as well
Honda does not have an automatic because multiple versions of the Civic have one. The WRX if it did not offer an automatic, there is no other version that would have one. Ergo, the WRX has an automatic, the Civic Si does not. To complain about offering an automatic makes me question the reviewer, why waste time complaining about that? Considering I live in a heavy snow area on a mountain, we don't have a choice - we need AWD or 4-wheel drive. Also, comparing an AWD gas mileage to FWD is never fair - but he has no problem doing it. Honda with its resources and Subaru which is much smaller, I am surprised he gives Subaru any credit at all.
I cant wait for the GT trim review! Very curious about how fun the new performance transmission is and how the adjustible dampers work. Great review!
For $43,000 though. Oof.
I can't imagine that transmission being fun
I know all the hate on the CVT. Go check out some vids on actual long term ownership on the WRX CVT. Lots of praise actually. This one is supposed to be better so maybe it is decent? I'd like to drive one to see. But yea, for $43,000, I'm getting a used Stinger GT2 AWD instead of a new CVT WRX.
Yeah sadly still no reviews on it.
@@aaronreed9863 No just no, quit defending that shit transmission.
Excellent presentation. I just bought a 2024 Honda Civic and your review still works because it’s the same car.
SI is the better everyday car unless you deal with snow on the regular
appreciated the comparison... but can we please get more than one song for a 20+ minute video. Same tune on repeat starts to detract from the review after the 3rd looping of it
Next time, can CG remove the looping background music? Otherwise, great review.
The main that that’s killing me is fuel economy.
No auto for me, only auto that is good in this segment is the Volkswagen R auto. But really like my 2015 WRX, bought it fist year it came out. Hope the audio sounds better in the 2022 WRX. The only color I like it in is the gray..the cladding does not stick out as bad!!
Volkswagen R is not in this segment lmao. But I got you
The GTI has the same DSG transmission as the Golf R and a manual option
Dealers are charging 7k to 15k in markup on the SI smh which makes it more expensive than the WRX
Si with Ktuner Map and done ☑️ it will be closer to the WRX power and still better gas mileage
You can mod a wrx too you know. And the wrx has massively superior grip to handle the extra power. Also the best re-sale value in its class. The extra you spend on gas, you'll get back in re-sale value.
Great review, I’m sold on the Si period . Not saying I don’t like the WRX it’s just the Si has all around goodness
Wrx is 271 horse power AWD and it start at 30k in Canada. The Honda civic si is FWD and has 200 horse power and it start at 40k in Canada. Personally, the choice was easy to make. However, I understand that some people prefer the look of the SI and the interior of that car is really nice. Ultimately, I believe both car are great, but I still prefer the wrx and it's more affordable than the SI.
Great vid btw
The si is 28k lol wth u getting 40k from. If you can’t negotiate or wait for prices to drop. You’re in a loose loose spot anyway
you justifying your purchase by making up MSRP numbers? lol.
@@wazewaze8185 you dont read. He said in Canada. It is $37k CAD and WRX is at 32k ish CAD. CAD is canadian dollar in case you dont know.
@@manuel123D you are another… he said in CAnada. Check out the prices. Lol You cant buy a decent car at $28k in canada lol. 😅
stop comparing an AWD to a FWD, you lose all creditbility right off the top. Nobody wants a Civic in winter town when you could have the Subaru, so stop the nonsense.
Honestly I would go for the GLI over these tqo
@Jayson Adams u make no sense
The civic is nice. I've always loved a good SI, but the interior is kinda... odd imo. I went with the WRX, plus a FF just isn't my favorite platform. Both are cool cars though, for sure.
The interior is luxury, it's nicer than the WRX for sure
Maybe it’s just that Subaru owners tend to stay Subaru, but I bought a WRX. It helps that it’s continuous AWD and I’m in Canada.
Honda has not always had great manual transmissions. The 2006 SI had problems with the second gear sync.
I just hate how stripped out the US civic is 😡
How is a front wheel drive meant for all year round? Do this test after a good snowfall.
What makes a horrible street car, makes a great track car. I feel like the SI is made for the street. And the WRX is definitely made for the track.
Hi! Just want to ask the performance of the Si and is it safe during snowy road/ situation? I am planning to buy one too. Thanks in advance.
Buy winter tires. Drive for conditions. Don't go out if it is really bad. My mk4 GTI handled CO and OH winters on Michelin all seasons; no reason the Si couldn't do the same... Driving for conditions is a biggie most ppl overlook...
What’s the color on both of those?
Mainly the Rex.. is that the rally blue or sapphire?
Interesting how VW slots the GLI between these two cars. GLI seats in-between the WRX and SI in price and in the power department. Probably has the best interior minus the steering wheel controls. This is a three horse race and you can't mention one, without the other two.
civic has better interior hands down, there's just more soft-touch points and knobs and buttons are satisfying and it looks really minimalistic and clean.
The background music is annoying…it’s like being on the phone with someone who won’t turn the radio off, all you wanna do is hang up.
Good review .
Have both, wrx is definitely the better car
I'm thinking of the Canadian Civic Si for the extras goodies we don't get in the US
Nice review
just saying .. in canada the SI have front ant back heated seat ... and heated steering wheel
I can't believe I'm writing this, but at almost 40, the Civic Si is more appealing to me. An LSD, better interior and fit/finish, an underrated engine, and enough space for tuning. I think they've got me...
My 2018 wrx gets 15-20mpg city and 26-32 highway and I usually get 22.9 avg on 10k miles
That’s extremely poor
@@protectork9831 it is
I can't get over that silly body cladding.
I wanted to like the wrx more. The si is just such a great car that I'm not sure I'd miss the power or awd of the Subaru.
@Jayson Adams the wrx has 271 hp and 258 pound feet of torque.
The Si has 200 hp and 192 pound feet of torque.
I ordered my wrx in grey to help hide the body cladding, arrives in june.
@@fishfever2000 Nice. I hope it helps make it disappear a bit. I've heard it doesn't look as pronounced on darker colored cars.
Just like the new Integra with manual only in the top trim And Supra with its manual barely arriving in 2023 I think manufacturers purposely miss the mark on options in order to people new reasons to continue buying their cars. They want to sell the same amount of cares every year instead of having a car that is only hot for a couple of years.
I like the WRX rear end more than the Civic at 15:16
All 4 of you out there like the VB rear end
Which of these cars would hold up better to southern backroads with gravel and big potholes?
Wrx and not even a question
There is a huge difference in the power of these cars, sorry it is not even close.
Increase the cost, put some more horsepower into the car Honda. Cmon 0-60 in 6.8 seconds (per car and driver) is .2 seconds slower than na mazda 3 w fwd.
Even though the wrx has about 70 hp more, it is worth considering the wrx also weights about 600 lbs more. power to weight ratio of these two cars is almost the same.
It's a little less than a 500 pound difference between a wrx premium with manual compared to the si. It is also worth considering that awd adds considerable weight, but also considerable grip. Which is why the wrx launches to 60 in the mid 5's and does the 1/4 mile in high 13's. Whereas, the Si goes to 60 in high 6's and 1/4 in 15 flat. Power to weight ratio don't mean shit when you're just spinning tires. And if you live in environment that sees a lot of rain and snow, the insane grip of the wrx is a huge advantage.
@@steve8803 For launching yeah i will agree. I think for snow and rain the concept of AWD is overrated. My friends cobalt SS with studded snow tires is MUCH more drive able in the New England winter than both of my family's AWD SUVs with all-season tires.
Regardless, the WRX is far too heavy in my opinion.The WRX comes in at 3500~ lbs versus 2900~ for a Civic SI.
The mazda 3 only gains 150~lbs going from FWD to AWD so there is definitely a lot more to the weight of the wrx than just awd.
@@molethan6138 the WRX premium with manual is 3403 pounds. Might as well be honest in that it is slightly less than a 500 pound difference. The Subaru also uses a REAL permanent symmetrical AWD system that is vastly superior to the Mazda. A Subaru with winter tires will perform significantly better in snow than an si with the same winter tires.
@Molethan Mazda's AWD system in the 3 is not on all the time. It only kicks in when it senses slippage. But at that point, it has already slipped. Subaru's is on at all times, greatly reducing the chances of slippage occurring to begin with. You should read up on all the different types of AWD systems different manufacturers use. They're not all the same.
@@steve8803 bruh i literally went off the wiki which said 3505, so whatever. Doesnt change the fact the WRX is ridiculously heavy for being a "compact" car.
And my other point is just saying i think AWD is generally overrated. It adds cost,complexity, and weight with the only meaningful benefit being acceleration from a stop. I mean the actual WRX is meant for off-road rally, but 99% of owners never take their cars to that environment.
And on tarmac tracks, 2wd cars have a distinct advantage where being light weight is king.
I actually hate the brakes on my wrx. Maybe it’s just me? Im coming from a VW GTI
my 23 f150 5.0 gets that fuel economy (mainly highway) but I'm about to trade it in for one
How is this even a comparison. The WRX blows this Honda CVT rubbish small 1.5 liter engine out of the water.
I have a 2023 WRX and my average MPG is 29.5, 32 HWY and 25 in the city. I tend to drive with the price of gas in mind. If I push the car 19 city and 23 highway. Much better then reported.
A 100k car gets a better fuel economy? no way
I have an issue with the 200 hp in the Si. Its been 20 years. This car will cost you more than the WRX, I get it its a Honda I have loved hondas since I can remember but the Si is outdated and will cost more than a Premium WRX due to low availability.