Deere Tractor Pulling Transmission Faster Quad Range
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Putting together a Deere 4430 transmission with some different gears to make it go faster. I tried to share some tips and tricks along the way. Sadly some of the video footage I shot got lost. I hope you enjoy even though there is no machine work in this one.
Getting that stuff out and back in as a royal PITA. So many simultaneous fitments and engagements most that you can't even see. Hard to feel anything ether because things tend to just stop moving. Extreme exercise in persistence, patience, and vocabulary.
Man O man, there is no way in the world I would be able to figure out how to take all that apart and put it back together again.
Nice seeing you use your new press already!
Pet Bailey for me.
Thanks
Your combination of engineering knowledge and 'feel' would give me every confidence in commisioning complex repair jobs to you - wish you were local
Very interesting repair Brian, it's a pleasure to watch your mechanical skills in action. Cheers and thanks!
Mmmm. Nothing like bearings on the skillet. Great job Brian. Haven’t seen the innards of one of those before. Hope you’re doing well.
some over easy barrings and enough room for a little welding pre-heat there on the grill. great way to start the morning brian and little transmission on the side
Brian, maybe you heard me yell from Chicagoland " Brian, move your elbow so I can see!". LOL!! Thanks for all you do for this online Machinists community!
Try louder next time! lol
Good to see you making use of the barn/shop now for these jobs. I am sure that was the original objective, and what a long, strange trip it's been!
Your a one stop shop Brian. Not only the re-build but repair and machining as well. Nice to have the capacity and capability to do it under the one roof.
Cam
Don't be so modest Brian. You did it with magic!
I believe this is the first time I’ve ever watched your video where you worked on a fresh clean work surface!
Cheers!
It can only last so long! lol Honestly I hope to eventually have many nice clean workspaces.
Now we are building John Deere transmissions. A man of many talents.
Never know what goes on here from day to day!!
So many times I've forgot to turn on the camera . Or The battery goes dead and shuts down the camera in the middle of a operation. Fun stuff.
Those transmissions are pretty HD looking.
Yeah I had a battery cutout on this job too. Also don't forget memory card is full and it shuts down too!
@@bcbloc02 The fun never ends.
You guys are better than me. Number one problem I have is forgetting to push the "record" button. 🤔
It will work. I saw Bailey walk through on an inspection tour and it must have passed.
Baily wagged it off!
Nice work. I would rather do an automatic over a manual trans most days. Smashed and cut fingers, pressing everything apart and together, lost detent springs and balls, locking up as the slide dogs bind on the synchro blocking rings .... ahhh the fun of it.
Always fun to watch the friction elements draw in the oil and push out air. I submerge mine on automatics. That is where the half quart bottles of leftover fluid wind up.
You seem to have it well in hand. Press seems to be working just fine with very nice control-ability.
I heard that you may be in Illinois on Saturday. If so I will see you there - God willing and the creeks don't rise.
_Dan_
Yep should be in beautiful Streator Saturday. :-)
The first thing we did in the spring after the tractor sat all winter was crawl under and pull the plug on the gearbox. It is amazing how much water comes out. All condensation.
This is it. The heat of running regular will drive off the water, but let her sit for a year and you end up with a lot of condensation in there. Better oil will cling to surfaces longer in storage, preventing the rust. On first start, the water will burn off once the engine warms up however when you first start it the oil pickup will first pickup the water because it is at the bottom of the pan. During first startup, the engine is getting water or water/oil foamy slurry until it warms up and drives off the water..... This wears the engine fast. Draining the water in the spring is a great practice. In addition, if you check fluids in the spring before running the machine, the water could make a low oil level look normal on the dipstick. Always recheck fluids after the first run due to this.
All so true, good advice!
Would be nice if it had a water separator plumbed into it...
Brian, the other problem is when you don't heat the oil up enough to drive off the water, so it stays emulsified forever. This is a common problem with forklifts running propane too, because the propane converts to CO2 and H2O, which makes it into the oil.
EFormance Engineering CO2 and H2O are the primary product s of all hydrocarbon (propane, gasoline, kerosene, diesel) combustion ... Propane is not special in this regard.
Like trying to herd cats using a wolf. The cussing is what helps! Nice job Brain.
Good Job Brian. I notice you seem to know a few people in tractor pulling and work on a descent amount of pulling equipment. Have a great day. God Bless!!!
Yeah I know many of them.
Right on, Bearing sep. needs to turn 90 degrees. Keeps from bending bolts.
Great Video Brian!! Nice to see your equipt being put to use. As far as getting your shop finished, Maybe you should try the Keith Rucker model. Pick a date for a shop work day and let your viewers know over the course of a few video's. It seems to work out well for him. I'm sure you'd find many viewers eager to pitch in and help you out. Best of luck
I'm only about an hour plus away... could possibly swing that.
Will see what I can work out, got some volunteers from Tennesse and Indiana too.
Cussing is ok as long as there's no tool abuse ;-) Unsure of how much ram force you were applying to those shafts but have found that bearing separators are much stronger if used 90 degrees to way you had them.
I remember those snap rings on the bottom shaft, I had wedges made up for them. When you bolt it up there is no washer on the top r/h bolt or it will jump out of D range If I remember correctly. Dont ask me how I know, lol. I used to enjoy that work, I was always the gearbox man. I remember them splitting the rear gear on the top shaft from going reverse to forward without stopping. Or vise versa cant remember now. The press is paying for itself. I always have a big block of wood under mine in case I miss catching a shaft.
Back a big load in B or C reverse that will usually break one for sure. These gearboxes are a bit more than the Fergies have. LOL
Yeah these were my bread and butter for many years. The Fergies are more of a hobby as they are light to cart around. Wouldnt pull the skin off a rice pudding.
I see you're putting that new big press to work. Watched you bring it home.
Rats! When I was in high school and college, I worked on my uncle's farm in the summer. He had a 4020 and a 4330 that I used to drive, and I always wanted to see how the shifters worked--and your arm was in the way, so I still didn't get a chance to see it! But at least I saw the shifters, so I kind of have an idea...
Oh, well, it was a very interesting episode anyway, Brian. Thanks for sharing.
Joe
OOPS! My film crew is not the best. lol
FWIW turn the
guillotine puller 90° to reduce chance of bending the threaded rods on a hard pull
I had them well supported and it only took about 3 ton but yeah the other way is stronger, just harder to manipulate by yourself at least for me.
Shop looking good Brian
Good information to know about using the cheap oil . Is there a specific oil that should be used ? I would enjoy some footage of these pulling tractors you work on. Thanks again for sharing your time with us.
I use John Deere Hy-Gard but in general the manufacturers suggested oil is the best to use.
Some footage later of the trans in action would be cool!
Also when your tightening bolts in a transmission you must make the "click, click" sound with your mouth to ensure proper torque. Pro tip. LOL
To handle any real hp you need to build 3 speed transmissions for these john deeres. If guys are serious pullers though they usually don't use a quad. The usually use a syncro. I have built many 3 speeds but never one for a quad. The new top shafts that I build are 1 3/4" dia where they come through the front bearing and I use a coupler to attach to the 1 3/4" clutch shaft. Not sure how that could be coupled to a quad 2 speed. The 3 speeds I build are usually all faster than the original road gear. They use the 7th gear slot, 5th gear slot, 8th gear slot and 1 reverse.
Here is 3 speed i made.
"i.ibb.co/fd9cB9h/Screenshot-20200414-190040-Samsung-Internet.jpg"
Yep about 800hp is the limit on a 4430 based rear before you start breaking stuff all the time. Keeping the quad is an advantage in the RPM limited classes because you can get more ground speed mid track vs bouncing off the governor. The 4640 based trans I built had 2 road gears for a 17.5 and 18.5 final. It has lived hundreds of hooks with 1500+hp and 3000ftlbs of torque in a 10000lb class. 3 spds are for sure the way to go for the RPM unlimited classes unless you want to really get fancy and free up some hp using a Profab or SCS box to eliminate all the stock design stuff.
enjoyed Brian
ATB, Robin
enjoyed
#shopppppp Love your videos watch them all the time - from Northern Ireland you are some craic
Another paying job the shop. Good to see .
Sounds like a two man job at times. Nice work nonetheless! Thanks for the video.
Personally, I like the smile that goes across the face when a customer brings you their trans with the teeth peeled right off the gears and the customer is barking "That damn engine you built me is making too much power!!"
"Quiet you mortal and pull out thy checkbook....the big feature is next weekend...there is work to do!"
hehehehe :-D
ha that busted gear brought back some memories of my 944 Turbo when i blew second gear on the track, only thing was it was an integral part of the main shaft which made it an expensive booboo.
nice video , much enjoyed and really looking forwards to meeting you on saturday
You should have been easier on that trans!! lol
Them bearings is done!
This looked to be a very frustrating job.......Nice vid.
That looks like something you'd have to be a mechanical engineer to get all figgered out. You know anyone :) lol
Brian, You mention the problems caused by cheap oil. I want to know what oil you recommend? Thanks for the information and entertainment.
Anything that usually says"universal" on it is bad. In the case of
these transmissions I would reccomend John Deere Hy-Gard only. It is
especially designed for equipment that can sit for long times and has
excellent corrosion inhibitors as well as extreme pressure lubes for
when it is being used hard.
Congrats. Great job. I try to avoid messing with a transmission. That work makes me nervous. Seems to be relatively small, for this amount og torque.
Well it was only designed for torque in the 500ftlb range but to last for 10000hrs doing it.
You need a big logo sticker to put on your work. Perhaps a cube (or two) in isometric view with your initials, one on each surface in view, and imposed over symbols recognized for mechanic, machinist, and welder.
Putting that press to work i see is this that project you was talking about? The old man at the shop I help out in has a few transmissions I have to rebuild so I feel your pain Brian, but like any thing else somebody has to pay someone to do it and if they really want it right they can have us build it to suit their needs the first time.
Yep, you gotta pay to play as they say!
You always make a great 👍 video.Did Bailey help.from the UK
Looks like you need a longer pull handle on the press actuator.
Maybe an old high-mount toilet tank flush chain and hande. :-)
2 things a shop that deals with bearings that are pressed on a freezer and an oven
Didn't think they would leave the rockshaft ( 3 point ) load sense shaft lever in.
I currently have a john deere 4350 with a quad range split. Whilst it's split my dad wants to swap gears in the quad-range for a faster top speed when on the road than 18mph. Do you know if this is possible and what gears we would need.
Thanks,
William
I am not familiar with a 4350 because we Don’t have those in the us. I assume it is like a 4250 and uses an under drive/direct 2spd. You get put a 4440 or 4455 2spd in it which is direct and overdrive and that will increase your ground speed 27% in both lo and high.
If you're sure you got it, that's good enough for me.
Hola buenas tardes amigo yo tengo un 4020 y el engranaje de la reversa se jodió me lo podrá conseguir usted y en cuanto sale
After watching a very interesting video on an intricate piece of machinery, I have one question.....is that a new shirt?
No it is not.
7 thou backlash is pretty tight - maybe im to used to caterpillar specs !!!
It is for pulling so deep is better as the tooth is stronger, just need oil clearance.
Where are you from . First time seeing your work Thank you
Shelby County Kentucky USA
Hi I'm from Greece.I have a 4020 with problem in this shaft and I can't take it out.Can you give any idea?
Which shaft? Top, counter, or bottom?
When ya cookin yer bearings, are you a turn em once man, or a keep on flippin em man?
What do you mean by “cheap” oil? Saying I should be using only synthetics? Can you recommend a brand-name? Love your videos.
Anything that usually says"universal" on it is bad. In the case of these transmissions I would reccomend John Deere Hy-Gard only. It is especially designed for equipment that can sit for long times and has excellent corrosion inhibitors as well as extreme pressure lubes for when it is being used hard.
thanks
Nice vid sir..but ive always wandering how this power shift really works...
This isn't a powershift transmission they are made totally different.
@@bcbloc02 got it sir..sorry..faster quad range right?.. if possible ask some favor how it works..coz my 4430 JD has a 1st and 3rd gear slippage..2nd & 4th gear are working and reverse..i was thinking to bypass the slippage gears 1&3, is it ok.? Thanks
on the clutch pack you assembled.. is that mechanical force being applies some how to squeeze the clutches and steels.. or is there a hydraulic piston on the shaft that we missed.
how big a super magnet do you stash down in the bottom of the transmissions to collect the fragments.. since i have been using super magnets. my gear oils don't turn color..
That big drum looking thing on the top is what applies the force to the syncronizer clutches when you shift it.
so the pressure on the clutch pack is applied by a shift fork then.. not a hydraulic piston. ok.. oh.. that a syncronizer...to slow the shaft to match speeds for spline engagements .. not actually a engine torque transfer clutch pack... the missing friction material in some areas must be what caused the random wear to the splines or teeth faces. .. now it makes sense...
Lack of stroke, or your ram is too short..........story of my life. Be interested to see what your pulling specific mods are.
Just do it twice that is what I do. :-)
Some work i do, when someone happens along, I explain that is normal to cuss at the machine i am working on. It's called having the balls to do difficult work.
I guess, you need some type of part catcher under the press....
Yes normally I like a big cardboard box full of paper.
I think it's called his left hand. Hahhaah
It was that day!
I like an old radiator core under there
how much would a full transmission build be on a 40 series john deere
Depends on the condition of the parts you have. Send me an email of what you are planning. bcbloc02 at yahoo dot com
Nice video! ....13
was it necessary to set the pinion gear height in addition to the backlash?
Same gear and pinion were put back so it was already set.
That rust and bad clutch material does not come from bad oil, it comes from the John Deere pissing itself when those Case IH tractors pull more distance. HA HA
on the friction disk would it be a good idea to soak them in the good oil ?
It wouldn't hurt, I just put as much on them as they will absorb.
thank you for the reply
It's not the cost of the repair; it's the cost to repair the damage you have done.
Something tells me you gave that Engine its 2300 # of torque.
Just parts of it.
nice work ..ready for some more punishment ,,
maybe they wont tear it up again
How can I contact you? I have a project you might be able to help me with. I am located in Kentucky.
email me bcbloc02 at yahoo dot com
5:00 In case of fallout put back in and take shorter strokes.
That press is just about the right height for something to fly out of it and kiss you on the forehead lol
Why do you "Cook your Bearings" ? What is the purpose of doing that?
Jack Keller That’s not cooking, its expanding them for the press fit.
Oh, I see. Ok, thank you.
Why is the draft sensing in there for a pulling trans?
Farm stock rules require working 3 point hitch.
bcbloc02 ah ok..but do they check for draft sense function?
If that tractor is going to be a puller, the spider gears need to be needle bearinged !
Needs a needled 3 pinion!
Is this your tractor?
No it was for a puller.
what speed did the new gears obtain?
6% faster than factory road I think.
So all of D range was only faster, A,B,C the same? Are those gears still available?
I have a 4440 that is needing some hi/low work and it does a lot of road work. Was curious about a little faster road gear
@@jimcrocker5183 The bottom shaft gear is still available from Deere the countershaft is not so you would have to find it in a salvage yard. If you didn't care about all the gears changing you could speed it up 27% by putting 4430 finals and brake plates on it. That is a much easier job than a complete transmission teardown to change the 2 gears.
Pro fab time
If only it was that easy, can't run a 2spd with the profab.
800 HP but 1600 FT Lbs or torque I would guess.
No more like 2300ftlbs or so.
Right on! That's what destroys drive lines!
I think John Deere sells lots of synchros because of cheap oil.
If it is a powershift you get to sell the whole trans!
Gee Brian, I guess you'll have to tear it all apart again so we can see what you didn't show us. Remember we all learn from mistakes...Just kidding. BTW I hope you tightened that loose nut in your shifter quadrant.
Yes, did you not see it in the last shot? ;-)
So is there supposed to be a gap between the nut and the main shaft selector quadrant?
I thought you could see it at the 15:40 mark that they had been tightened up but they are blocked out of the shot.
Do you work for John Deere
I work for a Deere dealer.
Which one? I work for Koenig John Deere in Indiana.
Meade
Oh neat I’ve heard of them they are a big dealership
0:41-0:45 I hear ya cutting one loose 💩
Nope just sounds like it, actually my boots.
the people I used to be around would have said "Did ya' hear that? He said it was so bad that it got clear down into his boots!" All in fun, of course, but there always seemed to be one that had to give that horse another lick or two every time he walks by ... long after it was dead and buried.