Are You Braking Early? Find MASSIVE Lap Time on the Brakes.
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Are you braking too Early? Is your trail braking technique correct? In this video Driver61 founder Scott Mansell gives tips on how to find massive time on the brakes, including how to brake later and find your braking point.
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![Are you making these MISTAKES when braking [Sim Racing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fonXd097vks/mqdefault.jpg)
To have this kind of information from a pro, and FOR FREE is something that should be praised. Thank you Scott.
While what you say its absolutely true, I would say that this information is actually common sense.
100%
@@ezanchi5422 common sense aint exactly common
@@ezanchi5422 common sense for experienced and good racer or sim racer. Try to ask people on the street. Even people with drive license probably don't know these skills.
You are paying by watching ads and giving Google data 😉
This is my problem.. when I try to brake later than usual I end up turning in too aggressively and getting oversteer. I then back off because I think I've found the limit, but actually I've just created oversteer by turning too aggressively trying to find the apex. I'm trying hard to bleed off the brakes and steer more smoothly so that I can better judge the braking point limit.
trail brake magic
brake hard as you can without locking, then once you do the turn-in point you raise off from the brakes but not completely. the more you steer into the corner, the more you let go of the brakes because steering while braking locks the front and understeers more
He’s making very good points. If you’re losing 0.1 sec per turn and a lap has 10 turns, that’s a full second per lap.
Your math checks out.
@@blue04mx53 It does tho?
It’s not astrophysics. 🤣
For those that arent aware, this is directly taken from Initial D Fifth Stage Episode 12 around the 8 minute mark (Keisuke’s FD vs Hono Gou’s NSX). I don’t know if it was the person commenting’s goal to take credit for this or maybe he or she used this information as basis, all I know is that this information i’ve shared is fact and that credit was not clearly given where it is due. Plagiarism should never be tolerated. Initial D is such an amazing show that its given us the opportunity to know this information, we should at least do them the service of acknowledging the genius its authors have created.
Note:
I had just rewatched the episode today, so to encounter this line in some youtube video I had randomly decided to watch on the same day felt like It was fate for me to do something with it haha. My heart felt the need to state what is right, since there is wrong in here.
@@victorpenaflorida1291 Ummm... I kinda get your point but, it's just general motorsports knowledge, yes the _"Initial D"_ series mentions it, but it's something that us people who were into racing from way before already knew : /.
It's just basic maths, it's not big deal, that series is made for both people who are into racing and those who aren't so that's why they mention commonly known stuff...
I started braking this morning. My next track date is in the spring.
I actually found that I was braking too late into some corners. Braking a little earlier and slowing down my entry speed allowed me to increase my exit speed. (slow in, fast out). Braking later and still making it through the corner isn't always the fastest option. It's certainly true that trying to get trail braking just right into a corner is an excellent indication of whether you're braking too soon or too late.
Good advice, as always!
I'm finding the same. Getting a better corner entry justifies braking and turning a bit earlier than I think I might be able to get away with. As with most learning drivers my biggest problem is having the confidence to brake late - but some corners suck me into overcooking the braking point and losing a lot of time (or potentially worse)
Finally!! That was my problem, thank you so much, your racing tutorials are the best
iRacing genuinely made my real racing much better.. Especially when it comes to braking, I learnt to trail brake properly, monza is a great track to learn how to trail brake, it's all braking
Probably the most important video you have done and including the evolution of the braking point as time goes on, but also adjusting according to what you have done previously:) Thanks.
It's also important not only for you as a driver, but also someone following or being followed by you, they have confidence in your braking ability. Or at very least it is not erratic and potentially dangerous.
Really interesting video and I like the setting and video editing choices a lot. Keep up the good work 🙌
To have many years in karting and finally thinking to take my ards all your videos are golden thank you Scott 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Love the way you just jump into videos then do your intro. Great vid, solid format.
I found this out recently. Break later find time. Im within .2 of the World Record in Sim-Racing at Brazil bc of you Scott. BIG thanks. I might just make F1 Esports
Absolutely awesome and brilliant explanation! Thank you!!!
Thanks! Yes, I’m an early braker and it’s served me well. Just going steady gets me progress. But... understeer at the apex and such things keep me away from the thrill. I’ll try
Try trail braking might help you
Thank you👍🏻Great information
Nice, if you know how to brake you will be fast, this video is pretty well explained, braking too early or too late can cost you even 3 seconds per lap therefore braking is the hardest thing to do in a car, I will apply this in the sim from now and in early 2020 in the first track day, i cant wait to practice this in the circuit
Really nice content 😍💪🏼
Outstanding...thank you very much young man....I do my first ever DE in October 2020 with my new to me by one month as of today, 2019 GT2 RS at Sebring...really looking forward to see what I can do.
I'm starting my sim racing journey for the first time in the next few days (I have time, but also not the money for real racing). These videos are great for learning how to develop approach, consistency and practise. The only racing ive ever done is karting so this will be an interesting project for me
You are video always greats & full of info 👍
Thank You. I've taken 2 seconds off my Laguna Seca lap times after watching one of your videos.
I remember reading a bit by a pro bike racer. He said he got his braking points sorted very quickly, and from then he wouldn't brake later to carry more speed, but instead would let off earlier. (It worked for me in the original GRiD! 😃)
I love how this channel often features Brands Hatch!
I heard an instructor get the late braking point across with this: "you dont hit the brakes until you see God".
All atheists leave the circuit on stretchers under blankets
@@Jejking can confirm. Tried this advice, now I don't have legs
As a matter of fact, most drivers have a problem with being TOO brave under brakes, braking too late and heavy and wiping off their corner exit speed, which is slower because it is faster to brake a car, than it is to accelerate one.
@@dons1932 I'm a great example of this in sims. I'm trying to get better, and I'm seeing a slow improvement, but I gotta keep at it. I'm experimenting with different ratios to help.
@@709mash Good o. Trust me - and while I truly commend Driver on his videos and advice which is usually bang on - I'm a little perplexed to see this topic covered from what I'd say is the wrong side of the viewpoint.
Of all the coaching I've done sitting next to an amateur, and plenty of coaching mates have done, almost the single number 1 thing you see people doing incorrectly when racing, arguably THE SINGLE biggest mistake, is the exact opposite of the video. Braking way too late, overbraking the car, and wiping too much speed off. Most peole are TOO BRAVE under brakes and need to break that habit. You will almost always be faster, on 8 / 10 corners of a racetrack, braking earlier and gassing out of the corner earlier. That's where speed comes from. Keeping speed UP and flowing the corners. Braking super late is usually the biggest mistake people do to think they'll be faster, and wipe off way too much speed.
Can you do some videos with karts and about them. Karting is like first step of motorsports and feel like this would be a great series
Great videos, thank you for creating these!
I enjoyed the throttle application decomposition you did of Lando Norris.
By any chance, would you have the opportunity to do a similar study of Landon breaking technique?
You make it sound easy but the reality is a lot harder to master for me, i am bit like slow in and fast out, but i have to tendency to break to early, and need like 10 laps to master each corner the best i can... Nice video though as always :-)
Your talk on braking on another video, it was just be Ike statement. Made me drop time everywhere. Being too cautious about locking up
This is something I do on track days, particularly going from the Megane I had to the Caterham where entry speeds are quicker. It takes quite a lot to break the psychological barrier especially coming from a fast straight, I find this going into Hawthorns at Brands GP.
I think that not only the Psychologic Barrier is a problem, I can't get under 1:53 in ACC on Monza when everybody else is going 1:48 easily.
Tomorrow I get "new" with LoadCell and all I have heard is that these will get me faster. Even now I have more trust in these type of pedals than my G27 with just a spring inside where you feel just nothing....
@@Fincher123 Real life and simulators are different mate when you barreling into a corner at 110 on the brakes. You don't even have to think about fear when you're sitting in a warm room with your feet in socks on the throttle pedal of a G29.
@@Flowermouth But the Persons on the Other end that get Angry in the Chat are real =/
@@Fincher123 Very true ahahahaha
My main problem with braking too early in a sim is the lack of feedback. There is no sense of deceleration rate. So, it is a guess, based on previous experience and has really nothing to do with actual velocity of the car.. Break at 120m, easy up at 80m, modulate until 40m, trail brake to apex.. And of course, that means that you have to build safety margins.
I really want to try vibrations in the brake pedal. I don't think i will ever get any better at braking, i've been driving now for a decade in sims, largely with the same hardware. I'm good at throttle application, great at fast speed corners, good at awareness, body transfer control being the main weapon. But braking.. nothing has improved. It is still just guess work, with only occasional hints before it is too late. I tend to drive at minimum brake pressure. If the server allows ABS, i'm one of the best at braking, it is ridiculous difference.
if you cant brake youre not a very good racer.
That's interesting. Most of the time I see people braking too late and losing speed through corners that will also affects the next straight speed.
:)
thx
My major problem. I always break too early. now I know why.
Along the track i think i got it, but its on the main straight and at the biggest inner straight i allways mess up and end up to brake late. Im so eagger to find the latest braking point and do it wrong almost every time
That sums pretty much natural reflexes after 30 years at video game racing... When I got into my first supercar real drive on a track I was quite nervous and scared of myself because I knew my evolution was verry fast from lap to lap... by lap 3 I told the driving instructor: Glad I don't get to make 20 laps in thus ride because I would bring this thing to the limit! He answered: "Well We're pretty much there in my opinion!" Hanging tight to that over head passenger handle lol... He looked kinda nervous too! And so He forget to tell me to pit in and I got a free extra lap hahahahaha... before jumping out of the Gallardo I said: "Wow! Thanks so much for letting me push that thing so hard! I hope It didn't scare You too much... because I scared the shit out of me litteraly!" shook his hand and it took me about 45 mins to settle down from this experience first moments were like engaging in a black tunnel with a roaring croud surrounding me... verry odd feeling but so delicious
This is great racecar advice. but my HPDE car isn't disposable. Yet, I still, naturally, want to perfect my technique,evenif I dont' get to be much faster.
i believe braking in my scenario is what seperates me from some of the fastest time attackers by specfically a margin of 4 seconds. I recall before not learning trail braking at first and simply just braking as hard as i could in a straight line (obviously not optimal) and the margin was much larger (8 seconds). It makes sense that we listen to our natural alarm to slow down when coming into a turn, from now on ill start establishing braking points and see what i can get now. (hopefully gain another 2 seconds maybe? haha)
Fancy seeing you here, hope the AW11 build is going well
@@Flowermouth haha nice seeing you too! i remember you from my earliest videos on YT. Yeah the AW11 right now is sitting nicely (kinda sad in a way) but am thinking either a 4age asmr video as suggested by a viewer or possibly another battle video vs either a DA9 b18c integra or an FR-S
@@PM_DraKKar All are good ideas 😁
I quite like your videos, it today the in car footage was somehow out of sync with what you told the audience. Would have been more powerful to explain the concept using an actual brake point (e.g. Spa Kemmel straight the door on the left side)
I am using the "racing line in corners" in pretty much all games I play, and in most of these games, I have the feeling the braking points suggested by the game's racing line are pretty safe/early. It seems like the priority of these racing lines is that you make the corner, and not necessarily that you take the corner as fast as possible.
I am kind of having the same issue in project cars 2, I got my wheel 3 days ago and I'm still trying to get used to the cars and tracks, but I noticed that the racing line thingy does not have the ideal braking point, my solution was to just brake later than the first red arrows :P
@@TheUltimateSonic1000 Yup, same poblem I'm having in PC2 (which I also just started playing). I also brake quite late compared to the red arrows. Sometimes 3 or 4 red arrows later.
Right. I am a newbie but I was playing Assetto Corsa career mode and in the first few races the racing line turned red too quickly so i braked hard but lost too much speed
Turn off the racing line, you'll get used to it very quickly, I was using the line but finding my braking point was nowhere near where it said,,
How do I know the right speed for the corner? Is it just doing it faster and faster till I find the right speed?
Have a go at rallying then , you have to throw everything you knew about driving out the window and adjust your braking point to the apex of the corner really is hard telling your mind that
BECOSE of a gr8 exit in prev turn onto the streight ur bake marker may b earlier?
What's the inspiration behind the buddha on his helmet? It's one of my favorite decals I've seen
Ah, braking... :) It's not the sim racing channel, but I find it quite hard to be consistent with the missing physical and the relative lack of visual feedback you get in a simulator, and not a top-gear one. Not complaining, but still...
🙋🏼♂️ should I brake hard and roll off quickly or brake a bit less pressure but longer? My thought process is by less pressure will that be easier to setup loads for a turn without overloading suspension and loose release? My trail brake is not great.
Any way we can get a similar video with some sim racing footage and breaking it down on a sim. My buddy who runs endurance iracing stuff with us really struggles with this and you seem to be 100 times better at explaining how to improve your braking then any of our team members. Btw (love the videos)
I brake early cause my g25 pedal suck its hard to trail brake into the corner because of how light the pedal was and releasing it gradually hard it always oversteer so I just brake hard and early and just trail it lightly
Hey. Q: what if you break to soon and you understeer. Can we save a little time by using the clutch to make a small amount of oversteer?
lol no
Noob question: Are we to progressively apply the brakes and then ease off, or apply hard and then ease off?
higher speed = less chance of wheel lock, your braking pressure must match to the speed to avoid wheel lock
I think leaving off is key. Applying is, or should be, obvious. I’m struggling too
@@RafaHuel Makes sense to me. Thank you!
@@Z3RFaLL121 apply hard and then ease off
On track, apply hard, ease off towards apex.
I'm always braking 30-20 meters early on the iracing, don't know what to do about it, if I try and brake a little late I can't make the corner, I'm not even on the average pace
ease off the brake sooner, sounds odd but breaking hard creates understeer. Easing off Breaks sooner, against your intuition probably, creates more turn in due too weight distribution to the front tires. With the right amount of trail breaking you can take corners much faster than you think. Just keep trying, at some moment it becomes second nature
brake late, do all the braking before the corner, accelerate through the corner. Jackie Stewart, 1969
Sounds like early breaking
Can you explain why rally driver brake round a corner whilst having throttle on at the same time, because I see alot of wrc junior drivers doing it
it prevents wheel lock up while still slowing down
I've been hitting the brakes later and later .... but it's scaring the shit out of everyone at the 4-way stop.
All well and good, but the key word in braking is “threshold” and you did not mention that word once !
Only way to be fast is to have perfected threshold braking skills. Be it in a abs car to avoid abs cutting in or a non abs car to avoid a wheel locking.
Precisely. I like that you mentioned cars with ABS, very often I see people treating it as a solution to most braking problems since you can just floor the pedal and let it do the rest. But there's so much time to be shaved when one learns to properly use ABS in racing.
If you're a beginner then it's better to brake too early then too late.
Any relation to Nigel?
I definitely brake too late
Great idea. Keep pushing your braking point forward as your brake fade gets worse and worse. What could go wrong?
01:39 , Just imagine how clenched a certain body part is of the driver in the white car, with cars coming 2 wide at him
Hold your breath, grow some balls... and wait as late as you can. 😂
Is he related to Nigel ?
nope apparently not.
Am I braking early? Yes.
I prefer to do that than using the wall instead.
Да не понимаю я по вашему
I'm only using this so I can be better at video games lol
Is this Nigels son ?
It's funny how I pretend to have 61 as my racing number
then I found this channel Driver61
btw epic vid
Destroying the brake pedal every single corner in 190 laps of continue driving
How can I break too early when I told even have a car?
0:13 lol Breaking Point is a HW movie, czcams.com/video/-kARhhTunDU/video.html
Braking to late can be bad and lose you time depending on the car etc...slow in fast out
Wait why are there brakes on the front wheels in a RWD Car?
Go faster .....longer . Fangio
I.E. spend more time at your top speed ( more feet per second ) than getting up to that speed.
The biggest secret is to set the car up for the LONGEST straight(s) so you can start accelerating SOONER ...even for one tenth sec .sooner ...that one tenth sooner at the beginning will multiply by the end of the straight into second( s) ......and one second at 160 mph is a few car lengths ( enough to pass ) , this is what pro drivers do . they dont chop in front of other driver like punk mad max does .....because thats what redbull wants in order to win( make other drivers afraid of you ) ....sick. And ....
ITS THE HONDA ENGINE THATS GOING FAST NOT PSYCHO-MAX (IMO) .
Head coach? who's the other coach? Your GF holding the camera? Drop the narcissism. " look at me, i'm a professional. You're shit. You need me"
Head coach? oh, you promoted yourself. (I'm too stupid to realize it's just you.) Do you think I'm stupid?
What kind of clients do you want? who do you want to work with? Stupid ppl? That's a shit life and you know it
Yes, I think you're very stupid. And yes, we have other coaches in a business I've built over the last 4 years.