Why F1's record-breaking cars were a magnificent mistake
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Sometimes, mistakes are made that nonetheless produce glorious results. That's exactly what the last generation of Formula 1 cars, the wider, high-dowforce machines of 2017 to 2021, were.
They were monsters, the fastest F1 cars ever, yet they not only completely failed to solve the problems these regulations were originally meant to solve, but in many ways made them worse.
But they still stand as the most remarkable cars in grand prix history So while they may have been a mistake, the five years these monsters bestrode the circuits of the world will be remembered among the most glorious in F1.
#F1 #F12021 #F1rules
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It's so weird hearing Edd talk about these cars in the past tense. End of an era!
Fancy seeing you here mate
Hi again tommo.
Dude is everywhere
Ommot
The man himself
I will never forget Lewis’s 2020 Spa quali lap in the W11. The level of grip he had was unreal.
YES. That lap was insane.
Tuscan GP also, with roller coster full trottle buy W11...that was fking insane
They gave a true sensation of speed even tho they were hard to race. I wil never forget hamilton going flat through the middle sector of Mugello
Exactly
dude his pole lap of spa in the W11 is crazy, flat through pouhon is crazy
In think Hungary Middle sector showed the true pace of the w11
w11 was literally a true beast
@@andypandy1114 or at monza
I will forever remember the W11 as a monster of a car, that looked fast even on TV.
It was amazing to watch in qualifying
That car was beautifully coined by Brundle
"It's like it's on rails"
@@LHudson21201 that’s an old phrase
What a monster it was. I would have loved to see it in quliy in Suzuka and Losail !
You mustn't have seen the camera shots from the 2000s, they really captured the speed back then.
Even though they were hard to race, I'm still extremely fascinated and in awe of this generation of Formula 1 cars. everytime I watch a qualifying lap, I still struggle to compregend just how fast these monsters are. Even towards the end of this era, I still find myself feeling that same excitement watching these cars go at mind boggling speeds through corners. I'm going to miss this I am not gonna lie, but I am also massively excited for the new 2022 cars.
Saudi quail really showed that these cars were monsters!
The biggest mistake in my opinion can be traced back to 2009, when the central neutral section was added to the front wing. Intended to reduce downforce while allowing for a wider and more rateable front wing, this instead opened up the Y250 vortex opportunity, massively increasing the outwash and thus the difficulty in following. Whilst I love the complex aero of the outgoing generation cars, the nose-connected front wings are probably one of the most important changes!
I would like to see those 2000s years regulation to evolve naturally, like we see in Moto GP. In there, since the introduction of 1000cc in 2012, there wasn't never a signficant change in the regulations; only some minor changes in certain areas from time to time.
I would like to see something similar in F1. Instead of ban those great machines of 2008, let them to evolve naturally and see what happens. You could change the tyres and the engines, but let the chassis regulations to be the same.
Holyshit that's actually genius
@@Videos-sobre-punhos-e-rodas Basically what we got nowadays, but with 2019+2013 brute Aero.
The converge is inevitable. Just to harness the one holy grail: ground effect
Something that is underappreciated about these cars are their beauty. I think they look much better than the long and narrow 2009-2016 cars.
If you look back, those older cars high and narrow rear wing looks so ugly.
True. The cars looked so good during 2017-2021. I wish they stayed the same.
They have more-aesthetically-proportioned components but as a whole they are obese for single-seater racing cars.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but from an aesthetic point of view they are about as good looking as a Soviet-era Moscow trolley bus fitted with shopping cart wheels
Very true! The 14-16 era cars didn't look good.
Cars are so much faster but look slower around tight corners due to more down force, size, weight, better traction and etc. I would love to see how agile and nervous 2000’s cars were again.
Weird to think that the Mercedes W11 will probably remain the fastest f1 car ever for a very long time, especially considering the new regs (heavier cars new tyres and wheels less aero), and f1 arent likely to return to super complicated aero like these cars allowed.
Nope, ground effect cars will have more as much as if not more downforce than these things in a more consistent manner. I think the biggest change in speed is because of weight, tyres are 60kg heavier allround. It's not.less aero, it's different kind of aero. In the high speed corners these cars will demolish the old cars once fully developed.
That is if the FIA allows them to develop. I hate that organisation for restricting so much.
when has the FIA ever been competent
Nah. If the new cars are only 1 second or less slower then the current ones, then the records of the w11 will tumble in 2023. And one second slower actually seems to be a conservative prediction from all I've heard. It might even be just .5 seconds and then records might fall towards the end of next season already
@@maximus2536 Nope, performance is getting more tightly regulated and loopholes have been closed. Also if a team finds a significant advantage it can be outlawed before it gets to race. Ground effect isn't everything, the more restrictive regulations are, the harder it will be to gain significant pace.
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD These 2021 cars as it was started out 1-2 seconds slower than 2020 and built back .5 of that over a season. A second is a lot of time to find in motorsports.
Great cars but ultimately they turned into exactly what the 2009 Regulations had tried to steer away from. High downforce reliant cars with a ridiculous amounts of aero devices and plenty of wake. Especially in the beginning with the T wings and Shark Fins. Seems a bit of a regression in some aspects
Happy early new year 2022, Real Brethem.
That's generally how development goes in F1. In a few years the same will likely happen to the new cars. Let's just hope I'm wrong
I remember when it was almost routine - the cars would rock up to a circuit, drive around, start quali and sooner or later the NEW TRACK RECORD graphic would pop up - sometimes several times a session.
Damn... I wonder how long we will have to wait till we see that again...
Lot track records where broken from 2003/2005. The v10 era was almost as fast as from 2017.
@@ivostarmans1199 Pedro De La Rosa’s lap is still standing to this day. JPM’s lap at monza stood for 18 years before Kimi obliterated it.
FIA Shortening tracks for that lmao
2017 Ferrari is one of my fav looking cars, don't ask why
I like the white fin behind/on top of the engine
don't forget the glossy paint, the Italian flag lines and a beloved driver behind the wheel
I can tell you why the Sf70-h is one of the best looking cars ever. The answer is shark fins. Shark fins are sexy af. I also have a massive sweetspot for the 2010 cars, because they also had those. the rb6 is one of my favorite cars ever.
I like black on red instead of white, 2019 for me.
@@NEKASABA white will probably return for 2022, because santander is back and PMI will not be a title sponsor. So next season will probably Scuderia Ferrari Santander and not MissionWinnow
@@admiralrng6506 yes. Glossy paint made beautiful
I love how the 2019 FW changes where A-ok but the 2021 rear floor changes where ''controversial''. Only because the Mercedes PR Machine whined till the end of their days about it...despite Red Bull being hurt significantly by the 2019 rules, and for 21 Merc and especially aston Martin where still very bullish when the new regs where announced and voted for...lol!
Tell me you hate Lewis hamilton without telling me you hate Lewis hamilton.
Also funny how they try and claim those regulations were brought in just to hurt Merc, when nobody even suggested they would hurt low rake cars until after the first showing at the Bahrain tests.
@@IDeltic People only hear what they want to hear.
@@IDeltic yep...very early reports (from f1 techies!) after the regs where brought in actually said it would likely help low rake cars more... (hence AM saying they where targeting 3rd in the WCC and perhaps a win or two!).
IMO this has all taken away the amount of work Red Bull did to make that incredibly tight rear end work. THAT's where the real difference was made.
@@IDeltic I'm not nobody. Extra rake would give an extra dimension of setup compared to a car needing more of a static right height front to rear, which RBR had this season. Maybe most F1 fans just don't understand the engineering involved with the sport but to me it was obvious.
The underlying design was definitely flawed, just to dethrone the old ladies of the V-10 era from the lap records. Thankfully the upcoming rules seem to have been developed more properly, also because having Pat Simmons at the helm ensures they were attacked enough as the old fox knows a thing or two about loophole hunting
It was literally because people were talking about why the engines are needed why are they so expensive and why are the cars so shit compared to over 10 years ago. It made no sense so along came 17 to make the cars the fastest making it look like F1 took a step when it really was just a band aid to make it look good
@@johnj9111 Yeah these were going to be faster engines than the V8s, and usher in a new golden age of manufacturers with their road relevance and low costs. This was the reason for 2014’s regulations, and yet the cars were pathetically slower than 2013.
@@Willie_Pete_Was_Here And also ironically ended up making manufacturers even less interested due to the lack of road relevancy when they they introduced stuff like the MGU-H which was a large reason the weight, complexity, and cost of the powertrain development skyrocketed after 2014 when all of this useless hybridshit was introduced.
It's not like those who made the rules weren't aware that the racing would suffer with more difficult following & overtaking, but faster cars. So it wasn't a mistake, it was deliberate nonsense. The new engine rules coming up are similar bullshit sabotage. F1 has truly lost its way. In a time whee the road car world is going electric F1 is about to consign itself to the same space occupied by horse and sailing boats. Both of those used to be mainstream transport that everyman could relate to. You can still race both but they are a specialized niche watched by a few people. F1 as we have known it has gone
I'm freaking out at the prospect of these cars being able to follow each other through the corners next year... This will allow driver skill to play a way bigger role and we could see some real shockers.
@@airlinepilot25 you still crying about a 7 time world champion move on bro we've got next season to look forward to ✌
@@airlinepilot25 I guess you didn't see Hamilton in a Mclaren finishing on the podium 9 times in his first 9 races in F1 as a rookie, beating his team mate Fernando Alonso, who was a 2x WDC. He won his first WDC in 2008. The Mclaren was a very average car right up until Hamilton joined Mercedes in 2013. As it happens the 2013 Mercedes was pretty average too. Hamilton has always been quick but the Mercedes from 2014 gave an already quick driver a distinct advantage.
@@jjhatch69 so you're saying Hamilton had a huge advantage by having the best team and by far the best car.
@@RockSolitude that’s how it goes. the same for Schumacher in 2000-2004. best driver in the best car = winning. i don’t get why you guys hate but can’t acknowledge the man has skill lmao. ffs he is one of the best all around drivers skill wise to touch formula one and was in mclaren prior to Mercedes doing some of the same stuff. it’s like 2007-2012 just didn’t happen at all.
I'm praying that the improvements will be enough to finally get rid of DRS.
For me, this past generation of F1 cars where just spectacular to watch. Sure they were far bigger and lazier on turn in but coming from a dull period of cars that just looked slow and dull just to watch (a theme present in multiple series around that same time), they were a welcome sight. From a pure aesthetic perspective, they were what a F1 car should be to me: Wide, low and quick (Just like the cars from when I started watching back in 2003, albeit much bigger). They also kinda serve as this neat convergence, combining the low and wide look of that V10-V8 era, The chunky slicks and V6s from the previous Turbo Era with all the modern advances (as well as some of the issues that come with them). They were an interesting time in F1 for multiple reasons and I feel like its gonna be a long while before we get an era as fast changing, rapidly evolving WHILE being the fastest ever as we got with these.
Personally I think the 2019-2021 cars were the most aesthetically pleasing. It’s very distinctly F1, but has a simplified design language that looks modern and fast. I really like the widened tires, front and rear wings, and narrowed front nose.
Granted I’ve only been involved with F1 for just under 2 years now so this era is really all I have reference for and sentiment with, so I’m very preferential to them. But I’m still excitedly awaiting the 2022 cars!
My favourite memory of this generation was Kimi’s final win in the US in 2018
Not long after that Maniacally fast lap of his at Monza!
I knew this would be the case already when they presented the regulation changes for 2017. It was the complete opposite to the regulations introduced in 2009, so the FIA were shooting themselves in the foot by making ad hoc regulation changes without consideration for the side effects. Hopefully with the model in the wind tunnel etc. the 2022 regulations won't bring "unforeseen" issues like the previous changes did.
Hi Fred P.
I doubt you, Fred P, knew that the regulation changes in 2017 would have a negative impact on racing. It is extremely unluckily that you, a fan on the internet, could possibly know that the regulations would make the racing worse. Particularly when multi-millionaire companies, with thousands of highly trained staff and equipment that costs more than both our salaries combined could have ever known that…
@@xflushestmean93x54 😐
@@xflushestmean93x54 you weren't watching back then? Everyone knew. Drivers, team bosses, sky sports and anyone with the slightest bit of common sense knew it would make racing worse
Also consider that DRS was introduced as a temporary system until the next aero regulations could fix the dirty air problem. Then 2017 happened.
Remember the days of the v10 and where the cars weren’t the size of semi trucks😩
That is the largest problem with the new design. They are still YUGE, YUGE cars. Can't expect overtakes with pickup-sized footprints on track with F1 speed.
@@jajanka10 That will never change because the size is dictated by crash structure which is pretty much untouchable.
And stil some track records from that era.2003 cars with slicks and drs would be faster then 2017 cars I think.Only the 2017 cars have a beter fuel consumption.
I'm glad to see the back of them. Enormous out of proportion monsters. Sure, the speed might be impressive but due to the enormous length of them they look slow on tv as they're so stable. Compare to Alonso's run in his old 05 Renault, and you'll see what I mean. It's not just the sound, the nimble nervousness of those old cars makes them look exciting and hard to control. All that being said, they still look better than the horrible 09-16 cars with their silly rear wings / snowplough front wings. Looking forward to the new cars!
I saw them at the 2020 Eifel GP and thought they looked slower on track than TV, it might have had something to do with where I was seated (back straight approaching the hairpin) but my enduring impression was that they rocketed out of the corners and then the sensation of acceleration and speed was kind of lost by the time they were 30% down the straight. They also looked super planted and stable the whole time.
(still a great experience though!)
They were certainly quick but, for me, they never felt particularly exciting. They were just too planted. Combined with all the fuel, tyre and engine saving needed for races (not to mention lack of an 18000rpm V10), they just didn't thrill me.
Just the sheer power to weight ratio of V10 era cars WITHOUT the help of DRS just blows my mind on how quick they are, even with the grooved "slick" tires it doesn't stop anyone to make a record and win the race. My favorite one in particular was Suzuka 2005 where Alonso and Kimi are starting from the back of the grid (16th and 17th), upon finishing the race they both got podium with Kimi winning the race after epic turn 1 overtake from the outside on Fisichella.
Exactly. I loved agile and nervous actions of 2000’s cars. With rear being more nervous, They maneuvered like knife edges with screaming sounds.
I agree , they didn't thrill me like the pre 2014 cars and they didn't give me the passion . But I admire these cars for their sheer speed and technology . Especially the w11 . That think is up there with the fw15B . So advanced .
Absolutely agree. They are trying to make artificial racing by making tires that degrade quickly, give advantages to the drivers following and have strict fuel regulations. I wish we could see all-out racing again. I think bringing back refueling is a key to this, but i don't think we will see that happen.
@@7mmalltheway Loved how those cars darted around when drivers battled.
They are the best looking cars in recent memory after the horrific looking ones in early & mid 2010s and really gave the message of "pinnacle of motorsport" with just one look.
Actually prefer the 2016 cars
@@thelegendformula6695 I just don't like the rear wings on those. Too narrow.
Personally I much prefer the 2010 and 2011 Ferrari, and in terms of looks I doubt anything will ever beat the early 2000s cars
I think the 22 cars could look even better but it depends on what the teams do with the regulations
@@mikeblatzheim2797 personally those were too short and stocky.
The thought that the 2021 changes would hurt mercedes most is a after thought. Every expert before the preseason testing thought that it would hurt the high rake cars more. So when it was the opposite it doesn't change the reason behind the change.
Don't tell Otmar that, you might burst his bubble that he's been whinging about all season long.
lmao bro the 2021 regulations did hurt high rake cars the most, one of the most infamous reason why lewis lost the championship otherwise he would have won it with 4-5 races remaining.
@@MotivationHub221 I think you mean low rake? Red bull is high rake, Mercedes is low
@@JonnoHR31 didn't racing point switch from low rake to high rake in 2020 or was it other way around?
@@MotivationHub221 other way around, they cloned the 2019 Mercedes for 2020
As a spectator, I would like them to go on the direction of smaller, slower cars that would make racing and overtaking more interesting. Surely for the drivers it's more satisfying to drive something that can go superfast and with so much grip that you can still go fast in corners but that's a bad way to lead a sport. The FIA should aim to make racing possible without DRS instead of just going for "fastest cars in motorsport".
Maybe, but Alonso eluded to the problem. F1 has to be a good bit faster than f2, and f2 than f3, and f3 over slower closed wheel gt series or the fastest karts. F2 in particular has creeped closer to the slowest f1 pace, iirc there were a few Haas qualifier times that were slower than the fastest f2 times.
Why does it HAVE to be this way? Because that's the whole value of the sport commercially. To get max dollars for tickets, TV deals, sponsorships for teams, etc f1 has to demonstrate it is unparalleled.
Think of it this way. If you were the marketing head of a big corp like Coke, and you wanted to compete with red bull for racing fan's eyeballs, where do you start? If all other classes of racing are somewhat similar, you could save a ton of $ for your marketing budget by sponsoring formula e, f2, wrc and gt teams and events. It's all soooo much cheaper than being a title sponsor for a F1 team in terms of cost per viewer.
So f1 needs to be miles ahead in terms of even potential pace to command it's value. To convince a sponsor that they NEED to sign a multi-year big money contract with a F1 team to be relevant.
If the FIA took drastic action to reduce pace across almost all levels of racing, f1 could do more of what you described.
@@RD1R I see your point. I suppose they would have to make those changes in all levels then. Hopefully it will improve raceability to them too.
FIA have to understand and recognize that 100% micro scrutiny will never be possible.
First of all, a race, all races are solely about who are the fastest at the end of the race when you cross the finish line.
As long as the teams do not breach or cross any of race regulations, I personally don't believe that the FIA should be making regulation changes to afford closer wheel to wheel competition, that responsibility should lie solely with the teams to come up with legal developments for their cars.
How can it be fair to ask Usain Bolt to start his race at 110 meter mark while the others begin at the 100meter mark, yet it is called the mens 100m race, or he's ask to wear military boots for his races while the other wear the latest design track shoes because he is so much faster than they are. (that is a metaphor)
F1 was always about which team had the fastest car, who was the fastest driver, if it happened the two somehow merge into one entity for a team, then that meant success until another team developed a better formula.
It should never be their job to pigeon teams with regulation changing to slow down speed of their cars so others will have the chance to make the races more exciting, that issue is taken care of automatically with the different circuits and natural conditions per venue, an unbeatable monster in Barcelona can turn into a rabbit in Mexico or Brazil or Imola.
The game changers should be strategies instead of regulations. If a team feels like they can't catch the front runner, then step to the side and let another car manufacturer/developer take their place on the grid.
F1 could still be at the top easily even with slower cars. There are plenty of things they could try. They could add items similar to Mario Kart. Simply add temporary symbols via projector or paint to the tracks that cause certain things to happen during a race like temporary slow downs or something as long as it's not too dangerous. They could invest in fancy lights for on the cars that let everyone know what is happening to each driver. Or better yet, they could make some sort of rubber banding system also like in Mario Kart that keeps all the racers closer together and the battles on track more exciting. Don't know, and we won't unless they try things like that I guess
@@shadowpersonoftheunknown6245 I honestly couldn't tell if this is serious or not.
And at the top of that era, the Mercedes W11. What a masterpiece of a car.
I will miss these cars and their looks will date quickly when we get into next season. I hope the gaps between the top teams and the ones behind closes up a bit - it’s a bit too big. There were some races where the Red Bulls and merc s had lapped the entire field by the middle of the race.
I still preferred the v8 cars from 2012 and 2013. They were lighter and louder than anything since:)
I remember, when I saw what was then the proposal for the 2017 cars, I thought, they're not going to solve the racing issues, they'll only make it worse. How right I was. The best moment for that period in my opinion is Pierre Gasly winning at Monza in 2020 after starting 10th on the grid and in general 18 months of hell he endured
I remember seeing something about the amount of overtakes dropping by over 50% compared to 2016 due to these cars. Just shows how much worse the dirty air effect got.
It was to save face after the hybrids were embarrassingly slower than the V8s of the past
@@Willie_Pete_Was_Here save face by making the racing worse? Surely the purpose of saving face is to make things better. Making the cars wider, faster and much heavier was like taking one step forwards and 20 steps backwards. Far from making the sport better, it made racing more difficult than ever
The 2017 cars, I’ve always loved them maybe cause it’s because I went to a Grand Prix in 2017 and I’m a little nostalgic but just something about them made them great.
@@yugarten8523 Shark fins are ugly imo, the 2019-2021 cars look better
Best memories would be spa 2017,2018 both invole Vet and Ham. 2017 it was later in the race after the safety car and they way they came through eu rouge and raddilion was nuts. The 2018 as they go down the back strait. Just wow.
For me, the ideal F1 is an mixture between current safety measures and power base (as to V10s we won't go back unfortunately) but the sizes and aero from the early 90s cars and minimum weight possible
The *Mercedes W11* of 2020. With that huge floor creating over *5G* of downforce! One of the greatest race cars of all time!
The 2017 cars looked stunning. The in-between of the narrower cars up to 2016, and the introduction of the Halo in 2018. Let's not forget that, prior to 1998, the cars were 2 metres wide, albeit with less downforce than this generation of machinery
What I'll remember about this period of F1 is, its the first time I didn't watch it live since 1989! Just to expensive now so have to watch the highlights 😪
The issue was they tried to take the downforce off to make it more competitive in 2014 and ended up being slower than the LMP Hybrids at the two shared tracks (Monza and Nurburgring) and the drivers complaint about how slow they were.
I seem to remember another significant change that was introduced that year...
@@damienmb2365 but then we’d have to acknowledge that the hybrids really weren’t that good
The best way to make over taking easier is smaller cars and less dirty air. They have one of those covered with a ton less over body downforce
The size has little to do with it. The cars from the 00s were tiny and the always drivers had the same complaints, and there was far less overtaking overall. Some of that is because of refueling, but still those cars were no better for racing.
@@F1jones i mean f2 has great battles, especially on smaller street circuits like Monaco. a smaller car would help a ton with those tracks
@@charliemaybe the same F1 cars I mentioned used to be a similar size to modern F2, maybe even smaller, and it didn't make any difference. That circuit's been producing processional races since the 1.5 liter formula of the early 60s when the cars were barely four feet wide. Monaco shouldn't be the standard of what F1 cars should be designed around. I've argued for that race to be dropped for 40 years. Bottom line, F1 cars are custom built and have about twice the hp of F2. There will always be more disparity and more difficult passing. If F2 is the standard, I suggest enjoying it instead.
The Brazil GP this year showed us just how incredibly impressive cars could be built. The drive from Hamilton and his Mercedes during that weekend was on another planet compared to rest of the field that weekend
*Raises Hand* awesome vid and thanks for all the fantastic videos. But the real question is... Who did the background music?? It F'n slaps!
about an year and a half later, and these cars aren't looking like such a big mistake anymore
12 months ago Aston Martin were grinning all over their face believing Mercedes assessment that high-rake F1 cars depended more upon their rear floor for grip & so the lower rake cars would adapt more easily to the regulation change. Now we have to suffer the ridiculous caveat that they were done dirty by the FIA in every news article on 2021. Shows you really should design your own car if you want to understand it.
@paper plane its true every regulation changer since 2017 was made to slow down mercedes none of them worked exept for the 2021 on that made the merc car unstable the first part of the season
@paper plane all of the changes were to slow down the merc dominance. took brawn 3 years to de thrown his old team and design.
I would like to see a the merc 2020 (w10?) without the restrictions of front and rear wing elements, engine modes and weight, as well as a shark fin etc. Just to see what lap times could have been produced.
*w11 but yeah. It would be an even bigger monster
You mean like Porsche did with their 919 Evo when they unleashed it on the Nordschleife?
That would be amazing tbh
@@TheScania1991 yeah exactly!!
I think what i'm going to miss most about these cars are all the active aero elements on them. I'm absolutely fascinated seeing the tiny differences between the teams designs, all just to extract that extra tenth of a second over another team.
Watching them go through maggots Beckett's absolutely flat out. Unforgettable. To race at those speeds was great to wach. I loved those cars.
Drivers want to go as fast as possible but personally I'd take slower cars and wheel to wheel racing. I know a lot of people love seeing lap times fall, for them that evidence of progress is enough but I'm primarily a bike fan. Moto GP is just more exciting to watch than F1 and that's due to bikes inherently being much smaller and with much less downforce.
F1 always has the same cycle, the cars are too hard to race so they get slowed down and race closer, then they look too slow so they add aero progressively to speed them up, then they get too hard to race so they go back again, the 22 cars will have wings and slots and stuff all over them in a few years time
Been a Moto Gp fan since Vale first started racing the all conquering Honda/Repsol masterpiece. I remember being so disappointed that the fans thought it was just the bike making him quick, so while I am still a huge Honda racing fan, I respected his choice to move to the fledgling Yamaha/Fiat RC. Arrivaderci "The Doctor", you will be missed.
We don’t like your kind around here.
I’m just joking, I agree with you.
@@capo_di_capi not just an amazing talent but an entertainer both on and of the track. Be it cars or bikes, they just don't make them like that anymore.
Bikes don't have any aerodynamic downforce. It's all mechanical grip. Hence they are so much slower.
I would much rather have racability than quicker lap times and records being broken. Those are a bunch of numbers at the end of the day. what excites me the most as a viewer of F1 is not the records but the drivers challenging eachother and the machine they have at hand at each turn in a glorious and competitive race to the finish line. That's what F1 is to me at least.
go watch gokarts then
While the sound of F1 racing has slightly improved in recent years, it has never been as good as the sound that the V10 - V8 non turbo cars produced. Back in these days, F1 was truly fast enough but far more engaging. I miss the old F1 days and the way Bernie managed the sport.
The aerodynamic genius behind these cars to produce total downforce and speed was so incredible and it was so pretty to watch, i really hope someday they let teams go crazy in pursuit of the limits of what aerodynamic design can really do around a track
I'll be glad to see the next era of F1, the last one suffered too much from not being able to follow each other, too much aero.
Last time I was this early, Sebastian was fighting for World Championship.
Last time I was this early, Alonso didn't have gp2 engine.
Those cars ended up giving us probably the best fight for the championship in 2021 though
This is the exact post-season content we need, thanks team!
The 2017 change is got to be the dumbest in terms of racing action. The amount of dirty air those generated through the complex aero, made it virtually impossible to follow, and the FIA made them so big and heavy, that was difficult to go racing wheel to wheel. Also if streets like Monaco and Hungary were already a procession, they made it damn sure, it was a train. One car following another car, with 0% chance of overtake ( 2018 Monaco)
Rule changes like this, make you question , if the FIA is a banana republic.
Everyone talking about how they hope 2022 changes will make the racing better, yet we have cars that are going to be even heavier again. Sure the aero might be better but that weight is going to hurt and make them even lazier!
Hybrids are so shit that the aero needed to be overhauled to compensate
People in years to come will look back and realise what technical and aero masterpieces they were , all the detailed bargeboards and wings, shapes, pieces of art
My best memory of this time period was when Fernando Alonso got in his 2006 world championship car with modern slicks at Yas Marina in 2020. Reminded me of when the sport was interesting and had emotion. Smaller lighter cars making sounds that people actually enjoyed, not wide heavy cars with microphones ontop of the exhaust in the effort to make them sound interesting.
Go back I dare you watch the video and tell me even a shitty track like Yas Marina wouldn't be more interesting with 20-22 of those same cars over what we have today. Watch the Lewis Hamilton interview from 2020 at Yas Marina when Fernando is driving around track, Lewis literally can't stop smiling and stopping the interview to talk about how he misses those old cars. It's not just the fans who miss old F1 with passion and SMALLER LIGHTER CARS, NOT WIDE HEAVY UN PASSABLE MACHINES.
I don't care about the lap time of Fernando driving around Yas Marina in a 15 year old car, it's just exciting to watch unlike anything the last 5 years plus
It's interesting to remember that the wider and lower rear wings where mandated for some dubious aesthetics reasons. Same for the swept front wings. The first caused more dirty air behind the car, the second increased the outflow. BOTH made passing harder than it should.
It should also be noted that although many of the fastest lap records were set in 2020.... most of these lap times would have been deleted in previous seasons and thus would not have been track records. The reason I say this is that F1 started to allow drivers to use all of the kerbs in some places at some tracks instead of using the white lines that had previously indicated track limits - This makes the tracks fundamentally different from previous years as it allowed drivers to carry more speed, run wide on corner exit (kerb permitting) and take completely different lines than were previously allowed.
Have you noticed that when any regulation/FIA decision impacting Mercedes is introduced, The Race calls it controversial?
I started watching in 2017 I’ll never forget those machines absolutely phenomenal 2017 suzuka poll lap was the most insane lap I’ve ever seen to this day
my favourite session for the last few years has been Q3, every time i would sit back and think, how they hell are those things so fast, i will miss watching the speeds these cars could do, but looking forward to the new gen of racing
I disagree on there cars being a failure or a mistake, because they achieved another objective: to increase the audiences on TV for the sport. Since 2017 there are way more people watching the races and interested in whatever happens on sundays on the track, which they dropped of a cliff in 2014.
Probably because 17 was the first season where Merc had at least SOME competition
@@E9X330 that was also one of the achievements of the '17 rule change IMO. The 3 early seasons it was all about who had the best engine and Merc cars dominated because of it. By having a heavy aero regulations other teams like Ferrari or Red Bull could catch up in other areas, and many times they showed to be ahead of Mercedes in those areas
@@RobinBooze468 yes but the regulations weren't made to slow mercedes, they were made to be faster and more spectacular
F1 is defined by leading edge technology and speed. I'm not sure why they continually try to hinder this.
Because people in charge of F1 now are Americans who don't care at all about what F1 represents and just want to create a spectacle for the masses. They're turning the sport mainstream and ruining the essence of what F1 represents. If they aren't removed, they'll turn F1 into a series with identical cars and just different paint schemes in 10 years.
The 2017-2021 cars also looks so beautiful.
Fantastic very informative video. I love your channel
I will admit that I have never loved the Hybrid Era and that includes the 2014 till now.
For me it wasn't a technical marvel, it was a sporting disaster that was intended to favor one team and keep that team in the top for as long as the rules worked in their favor!
Let's be honest. The first 2 seasons of the Hybrid era showed how flawed it was and the FIA and F1 did little to fix those issues and allowed what would become the boringist F1 Era ever. Little challenges were made to that team and its two drivers almost consistently finishing on top.
Every time new technical changes have been introduced, it actually did very little for the sport.
I truly hope the new 2022 season will actually bring the sport into a "no one is guaranteed to win" situation
Given all the teams and manufacturers approved the 2014 rules, I'd love to understand how the package was "intended to favor one team." That's quite a political masterstroke by Mercedes.
Maybe Ferrari and Renault should have been working on their prototypes earlier. Clearly it was possible to beat Mercedes since the newcomer eventually did, sort of.
I know about the excuse that Mercedes was working on a V6 hybrid years in advance, but so could the other suppliers have been. By that token, Renault had at least a four year advantage developing turbo V6s in F1 alone, never mind another few years in Le Mans prototypes in the mid 70s and never managed a WC before they finally quit. BMW was able to do it in their second year. Head starts in development don't guarantee anything.
@@F1jones I was going to respond with a similar comment but you’ve done it already. The dominance of Mercedes was simply a reflection of the amount of time/effort/money Mercedes Benz threw at the new regs. Best example of this was when Honda came into the sport in ‘15, Mercedes knew Honda were stuffed because they had already fully tested the engine layout Honda were touting. You need only look at ‘21 and see the Mercedes compared to the Aston Martin, to understand the quality of work and development required to stay at the front of Formula 1.
These were power units designed to attract manufacturers and bring costs down, both of which failed dramatically. And F1 scrapped further proposals to simplify the power units because again, they failed to attract new manufacturers. Now F1 is stuck with expensive and heavy hybrids until they come up with new engine regulations.
the hybrids were only the fastest F1 cars in qualifying trim, NOT in race trim. Because the hybrids were running minimal fuel loads (3-4 laps), super-soft slick tyres and their maximum engine modes. The V10s had to qualify with their race fuel levels. The 2004-2005 V10s total race times were significantly faster than the hybrids. In race-spec the hybrids have tyre conservation, fuel conservation and engine management and only broke some race lap records when drivers pitted for super-soft slicks at the end of the race with only 1-4 laps fuel onboard. The 2004-2005 V10s average lap times at Monza were 1min 21sec to 1min 23sec lap-after-lap throughout the entire race thanks to its 920bhp+, 605kg weight, re-fuelling and tyre war with superior longer-lasting tyres which could tolerate sustained hard racing - all of this meant proper sprint races. While the heavy 730kg hybrids only had the full 860bhp + 160bhp ERS available in qualifying only, not the race. At Monza 2020-2021 their average laps were 1min 24sec to 1min 26sec. The fastest race lap during the hybrid era at Monza was 2019 Hamilton 1min 21.779sec on lap 51/53 with fresh super-soft slick tyres. While Barrichello did 1min 21.046sec on lap 41 and was consistently under 1min 23sec. The fastest in 2020 was 1min 22.746sec by Hamilton in the Mercedes W11... In race trim the V10s are still ultimately the fastest.
V10s sounds like a real race car. what happened to F1 was a crime
These cars may have been faster on average, but the lighter V10 cars were pretty fast as well. In fact, the Monza race lap record of 1:21.046 is still held by Barrichello in his 2004 Ferrari F2004. In 2020, the fastest race lap time of 1:22.746 was done by Hamilton.
I think stability in the regulations, even into the next proposed cycle in the mid 20s, will allow smaller resourced teams time to learn how to catch up and we should have a more competitive sport. Especially with cost cap measures and balance of performance when it comes to aero development.
These cars, especially the w11, were something else. I don't think we're gonna see such breathtaking qualifying shots for some time to come. Nevertheless, if it's a tradeoff to better racing I'm up for it.
In my 30 odd years of following this sport it’s about the inevitable and inspiring march of technology. These cars are a true example of what can be squeezed out within given parameters, albeit even changing parameters. It’s was a pleasure to watch them and experience the what ifs
It's weird how fia thought refueling would be bad except every season before 2010 was amazing and you weren't just worried about weather your tires are going to last
Two ideas to ultimately help make the races more interesting may come down to two things:
(1) Reducing the width and minimum/maximum weight of the cars.
(2) Adding in a separate class of F1 level cars for transition teams that are a "spec car" with DRS/Overtake system. Those cars would have their own championship and points system for that class, but would have to get it from the overall classification.
[These would be DRS responsive cars that would be somewhat less custom than the customer F1-level teams.]
For me the 2017 Mercedes was one of the best looking cars in F1 history.
And the 2017 Ferrari
One of the best eras in F1. I'm optimistic about the 2022 season. The cars look great and hopefully the racing is closer and more competitive. I still want Lewis to win though lol
Imagine these cars with refueling going light for the whole race, putting qualifying times for 1.5 hour. That would be amazing
Take away the best battle for an F1 drivers championship ever, the racing and battles in 2021 for the rest of the field was nothing short of immense! In my opinion the best year of racing I've ever seen, and I've been watching F1 since 1990!
I never forget how Hamilton went flatout at Mugello.
Russel going through the gravel and not lifting was insane as well at Mugello
Honestly, I care about the racing and not about the speed.
I’m also quite sure that the drivers won’t mind a car that doesn’t really push them, when their colleagues/rivals are in similar machinery and they have to race hard for every position.
Therefore I hope the rules will make following through corners much easier and once that’s achieved, the rules stay the same for a number of years. Have the cars converge, than look at how the racing turns out. I’m sure it’ll be amazing, and the speed doesn’t really play an important role in that anymore.
another superb piece of CZcamsry by Edd Straw.... The Backbone of this channel ... Always a pleasure listening to his narative in a smoothe and relaxed manor... ARE YOU READING THIS Scott Mitchell !!
My fondest memories would be the first time the new wider 2017 cars went to Baku.
The 2017 cars were some of the best looking in F1 history. My only problem with these regs was that they were too heavy and too long. Also higher revving, better sounding engines would’ve been nice.
Didnt know they originally wanted the return of refueling. I would love to see that again and to make it more safe u could make them only release 2 seconds after the pump was released
These era of speed machine is just gorgeous, straight art piece to me
Great images!
It was perfect for Mercedes, they know how to make limousines, that’s also reason why they finally painted them black, sells better
It’s funny these cars are being replaced for “better racing”… and yet we just witnessed one of the great seasons of all time… I think it was the fault of every team on the Grid not being able to compete with the Mercedes.. plus Valterri couldn’t take it to his teammate like Nico…That Mercedes was just the perfect machine for this era.. I really realized it after the 2020 Sahkir GP, when GR in a car he didn’t fit,or was used to driving came in and nearly won the thing even with Mercedes botched pit stops
We'll see next year. I'm hoping George kills it next year for sure. But I'm also hoping Lewis destroys all of these critics once and for all. I thought he did at Brazil this year. But people are still chirping....Congrats to Max though. Well deserved. I think LH will capture it back next year!
this season wasn't great because of good racing. it was great because it was very competitive and the performance level of the cars were quite close together. I am 100% sure, that next season will be much less competitive. new regs always increase the gaps between teams
everyone who says “I’d rather take slower cars and wheel to wheel racing” should really be watching Indycar for their fix. Once Indycar gets their next gen engines it could really be cool to see.
As for these cars. the fact they could combine power and aero as they did was the real spectacle. To produce the power with such little fuel spent through the insane efficiency of the engines was amazing, coupled with the absolute bleeding edge of aero technology, for mega laps was something to see. The V10 cars were the best possible in the early 2000s and these were the best possible in 2020. The cars from 2007-2016 were neutered and took away from the ‘pinnacle’ status a bit. These latest machines now stand alongside the 2002-06 V10s as race car legends.
Yup. IndyCar has been sooooooo much better to watch, MotoGP as well, but F1 is like pop music to a lot of fans. You can't convince them less popular things can possibly be better.
Every rumour I saw predicts new monsters for next season. I think pirelli even saw, that they will be as fast as in 2021 towards the end of the 22 season.
My big problem with the 2017 redgs is how good the cars were, no challenging handling, no sudden engine failures, they just worked, which removed a lot of the excitement in the sport for me.
Hmm perhaps you missed the disaster Renault V6 hybrid engines? Plenty of engine failures there...
@@wiegraf9009 they weren't unexpected though
I can't say I really noticed a second or two slower lap times watching on TV. When I watch races from the 80s and early 90s, I'm struck by the overtaking possibilities (and that was with fewer passes on straights using DRS). Machinery always matters, but that period was more weighted towards driver skill than now. That was the golden era. I'm glad these cars are gone and the sport is rebalancing a bit
The original turbo era was memorable for me that was an incredible time. Specific motors, transaxles, and tires for qualifying a right pedal that was more like an on off switch given the lag. I can remember hanging on to my seat until the last corner because one never knew if the drive train would propel the car to the finish line. It did not matter if your favourite driver was a minute ahead of the rest it truly was not over until that driver crossed the finish line. The cars were two thirds the size they are now and unruly nervous things. Cost caps ruined all that it has become very pedestrian for me now.
Can you imagine the racing we'll see if the regs accomplished their goal of making the cars more race-able, and the teams get them to be nearly as fast as the last generation. I'm hopeful and pretty excited for the 2022 season
The 2020 Mercedes was the perfect car pretty much.
I agree with Horner. The hybrid era did nothing positive for F1 or motor racing as a whole.
I loved the 80's- 90's f1 cars mostly due to it bringing me back to my childhood .... as unpopular as it may be.. mid 2000's were by far my favorite cars
I hope one day they'll start shrinking the cars until having something reasonable. If you compare a V10 with the current cars, they're heavy boats.
that will never happen, safety has been a huge focus point and probably #1 priority. its safer to crash a big f1 car conpared to a small f1 car like a 2 door coupe or an suv
They aren't the fastest. Still slower than 2004 over a race distance I believe, which is the real metric. (yes it's a function of the technical regs, but they always have been)
Bandit
@@TKMRacer28 found me
wrong. they are about 5 sec faster in average than 2004 cars LOL.
@@jiboo6850 as Karting1 said, over a race distance they’re slower LOL
2004 brazilian grand prix was 1:28:01.451 (damp start) in time
2021 Brazilian Grand Prix 1:32:22.851 in time
71 laps. 2004 over 4 minutes faster (I don't recall any big SC interventions this year).
Bahrain was slower in 2021 than 2004 a well.
The 2004 races were much faster than now. 2021 faster qualifying times are aided by low fuel (2004 had to quali on race fuel) and the use of slick tyres.
Stick a 2004 out on the track with slicks and low-fuel you get a different story.
2021 cars aren't any quicker than 2004 when you average it out. Slower in race spec. (and yes function of technical regs)
No, they really were not a mistake. The 2014-2016 cars were a fucking joke.
I find it amazing that these cars are faster than the 2004 cars. Not only are they heavier but engines have to last miles longer than the v10s. This really is cutting edge stuff.
As a Redbull/Max fan, the combination between Lewis and that W11 was something else.
We're seeing the same thing with Max now in terms of dominance but the current cars are ALOT slower and less predictable.
The confidence Lewis had in that car which in turn made him even faster and more stable through the corners because of the extra speed/downforce almost looked alien sometimes.
That car truly looked like it was on rails sometimes.
With the new regulations and the w11 getting old enough to "fall outside of the rulebook", I secretly hope they make a unrestricted/max performance version like Porsche did with the 919.
Even if the engine would hold for just one lap.., I wanna see what that thing is truly capable off!