Statcast has bat tracking now!

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  • čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
  • Bat tracking leaderboard: baseballsavant.mlb.com/leader...
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    Momentum CZcamsrs vs College: • CZcamsrs VS College B...
    00:00 - Bat speed
    0:35 - Giancarloooooo
    3:23 - Column explainers
    6:00 - Who I'm impressed by
    8:14 - Future applications
    10:20 - Swing length
    12:53 - Swords
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Komentáře • 161

  • @jarvis6239
    @jarvis6239 Před 15 dny +754

    MLB will ask a guy to relay brand new in depth statistical concepts to fans but won't credential him for Winter meetings

    • @lapotencia25
      @lapotencia25 Před 15 dny +40

      MLB will give us brand new in depth statistical concepts but won't give players better uniforms than those worn by Great Britain in the 2023 WBC

    • @1uckedout
      @1uckedout Před 15 dny +3

      @@lapotencia25 I thought they were rolling the new uniforms back

    • @Th3DarkCanuck
      @Th3DarkCanuck Před 15 dny +1

      @@1uckedout Next year.

    • @pedro3131
      @pedro3131 Před 15 dny +7

      They probably credentialed his 2nd channel and he just never checked his DMs

    • @logan4015
      @logan4015 Před 14 dny +1

      I'm glad you were thinking the same thing as me

  • @UncleDrew1
    @UncleDrew1 Před 15 dny +397

    I just found out statcast has bat tracking now

    • @christianbaird8800
      @christianbaird8800 Před 15 dny +6

      I thought that was called sonar

    • @LemonGlow99
      @LemonGlow99 Před 15 dny +4

      Big if true

    • @8BitRip
      @8BitRip Před 15 dny +9

      Wow you’re telling me this for the first time.

    • @Ty-dv9yr
      @Ty-dv9yr Před 12 dny +1

      @@8BitRip 🎶Blue jean baby, L.A. Lady 🎶

  • @aaronfinlay1293
    @aaronfinlay1293 Před 15 dny +157

    Statcast is really so advanced these days it's now tracking a bunch of flying mammals, the future of baseball is officially here

    • @extragoogleaccount6061
      @extragoogleaccount6061 Před 15 dny

      You ever go out and throw small rocks to make bats dive and swoop at your own will?

    • @Fly-The-W
      @Fly-The-W Před 12 dny

      @@extragoogleaccount6061 Used to do that all the time as a kid on the trampoline

  • @xxSLAV33xx
    @xxSLAV33xx Před 15 dny +81

    All I'm getting out of this video in the first couple minutes is that Stanton is a true freak.

  • @proudhonintop4952
    @proudhonintop4952 Před 15 dny +87

    Uploading 5 mins before my lunch break at work. A true hero

  • @benjihuynh2970
    @benjihuynh2970 Před 15 dny +64

    Ayyyy main channel upload

  • @Cheesyoo1218
    @Cheesyoo1218 Před 15 dny +54

    Maybe that young guy Juan Soto is good at baseball

    • @RyanSmith-nw1pr
      @RyanSmith-nw1pr Před 15 dny +4

      Nah i don’t think he’ll turn into anything. I know he’s young but he’s never gonna be a .400 obp guy or an elite power hitter. He’ll be a glove first AAAA player and nothing more

    • @aljon5947
      @aljon5947 Před 15 dny +1

      ⁠​⁠​⁠@@RyanSmith-nw1prtook me a minute to register that u were being sarcastic💀

    • @Th3DarkCanuck
      @Th3DarkCanuck Před 15 dny

      @@RyanSmith-nw1pr Glove first... lol

    • @madxD144
      @madxD144 Před 13 dny +1

      @@RyanSmith-nw1pr age 25 is a good age for a top prospect

  • @zoom3184
    @zoom3184 Před 15 dny +14

    Bat tracking call that echolocation

    • @benkazel
      @benkazel Před 13 dny

      Changeup the flow, pronation

  • @aidanfrye4144
    @aidanfrye4144 Před 15 dny +33

    The little high school physics teacher inside all of us wants to ask if bat size would have any significant impact on a player like Corbin Carroll, who has a high bat speed, but not necessarily the reputation or results of the guys next to him in the leaderboard. Couldn’t find any listed bat weight or anything online, and I know variations in bat weight are usually +- 30% max on a major leaguer’s bat, but in a game where minor tweaks are so important, I feel like something that small could have a bigger impact than one would think. Also, I think the term sword comes from the Happy Madison film “Benchwarmers,” (…I know), where Rob Scheider (…I know)’s character criticizes David Spade (…I know)’s character’s swing, yelling “It’s not a sword!” (… I know)

    • @cyrusjcooper
      @cyrusjcooper Před 15 dny +7

      definitely had my hs physics teacher in the back of my mind when bailey was explaining the max exit velocity, i wonder if the large difference in mass between bat and ball makes the bat weight more negligible in terms of its effect as a variable. additionally, totally agree about swords but would be interested in seeing if an accumulation of data would make some more correlations pop, like if a longer swing length or faster bat speed is associated with trouble holding the bat back on a check swing. also doesn’t seem to be a high impact stat in terms of tracking individual strikes that happened in at bats but it is interesting 🤓

    • @carlpacquing2575
      @carlpacquing2575 Před 15 dny

      That would be hilarious if The Benchwarmers movie coined the term "sword", twenty years before Statcast!

    • @mrkniffz7109
      @mrkniffz7109 Před 15 dny +1

      The term sword was popularized by pitching ninja & it’s because when batters execute a ‘sword’ the ending position they’re in looks like they’re holding a sword. Where he got the term from I am unsure

    • @aidanfrye4144
      @aidanfrye4144 Před 15 dny

      @@mrkniffz7109 czcams.com/video/ixfVMhdIO8s/video.htmlsi=f3Hpq6FzfvDZZHB-

    • @TurtleMarcus
      @TurtleMarcus Před 13 dny

      Next step: bat momentum (bat mass x bat speed) and centripedal bat force (bat mass x bat velocity^2 / distance from the bat mass centre and the theoretical centre of the circle defined by the bat curve).

  • @zackaryhaselius2226
    @zackaryhaselius2226 Před 15 dny +20

    Loving that they track Swords. Thats hilarious to me.

  • @jaymarkle2444
    @jaymarkle2444 Před 15 dny +10

    Harder, better, faster, stronger made me smile.

  • @spedy1690
    @spedy1690 Před 15 dny +3

    Harold Ramirez is a great example of someone who shortens his swing considerably in 2 strike counts, something that’s even been discussed a lot on Tampa bay broadcasts. Cool to see the data back this up and for Bailey to point it out!

  • @spinaltap526
    @spinaltap526 Před 14 dny +2

    Bailey, tired: I don't really see the value of the swords stat.
    Me, wired: Scouting dudes for my secret samurai clan.

  • @guitarchim
    @guitarchim Před 15 dny +7

    I just saw that article on Baseball Savant like 10 minutes ago and here you are with a video already

  • @asmith5392
    @asmith5392 Před 15 dny +8

    Awesome video Bailey, I love this type of info. With all baseball stats, I wonder how big of a sample size is needed for it to "normalize". Second, I think this does not account for the weight of the players bats. E.g. Matt Olson probably swings a heavier batt than a small guy like Corbin Carrol, and thus may have higher exit velo despite a lower bat speed. Just a thought. Keep up the good work!

  • @Gnar_Dogg
    @Gnar_Dogg Před 15 dny +6

    Morel is actually in the top 15-20 of a bunch of statcast measurements. If he was one of the better hitters in the league in a couple years I wouldn't be surprised. Do I think that will actually happen? Idk but as a Cubs fan I'll enjoy watching him develop more.

  • @Weaponator18
    @Weaponator18 Před 13 dny +1

    Oh boy! The main channel! Thats how you know it's serious!

  • @corbindupuis1013
    @corbindupuis1013 Před 15 dny +5

    Love a new main channel upload during my school lunch break

  • @ethanmx2
    @ethanmx2 Před 15 dny +2

    I wonder if there might be a thing where you can calculate smash factor similar to a golf swing. If there’s a consistent number, it might be possible to retroactively estimate a batters swing speed based on exit velocity.😊

  • @lapotencia25
    @lapotencia25 Před 15 dny +1

    Now I just wish we could see historical bat speed data. Imagine how Adam Dunn's bat speed data stacks up to that of Stanton

  • @AbsvInFeRnO
    @AbsvInFeRnO Před 15 dny +3

    I’ve never been so early to a main channel vid. Truly honored

  • @ebscoHOSTpub
    @ebscoHOSTpub Před 15 dny +3

    Luis Arraez at the bottom is not surprising given that he probably waits the longest among all hitters to get the most contact possible.

    • @_marshaI_
      @_marshaI_ Před 7 dny

      He's got the shortest swing

  • @HarryCrackz
    @HarryCrackz Před 15 dny +3

    Why you spending your time uploading these videos Foolish? The A's need you!

  • @zachweber500
    @zachweber500 Před 15 dny

    Awesome vid, thank you.

  • @wyatttibbitts8603
    @wyatttibbitts8603 Před 15 dny +3

    Now that we can track the bat and the ball, I want to know some of the biggest “whiffs”, which would be the distance a swing missed the ball. What player has the highest average whiff distance? What about the lowest?

    • @FoolishBailey
      @FoolishBailey  Před 15 dny +7

      they actually plan to implement that soon

    • @ccjl9160
      @ccjl9160 Před 15 dny +3

      Javy Baez gotta be at the top

  • @TurtleMarcus
    @TurtleMarcus Před 13 dny

    To account for variation in the weight and length of bats, we could use bat momentum and centripetal bat force.
    Bat momentum = bat mass x bat speed.
    Centripetal bat force = bat mass x bat velocity^2 / distance from the bat mass centre and the theoretical centre of the circle defined by the bat curve.

  • @racg174
    @racg174 Před 15 dny +1

    didn’t know i needed this video till i saw it

  • @FTLnovaKid
    @FTLnovaKid Před 15 dny

    🔥🔥🔥 Thanks for this.

  • @k23d
    @k23d Před 15 dny +1

    Finally another main channel upload

  • @panner11
    @panner11 Před 14 dny

    For looking for impressive players with two factors (like when you looked for high fast swing rate compared to average bat speed), the graph is really easier to instantly pick out those players compared to the chart (it will just be all the people along the top slope of the graph).

  • @DMMoore1313
    @DMMoore1313 Před 15 dny +1

    That's a great hat, Bailey. Shouldn't go unnoticed.

    • @juvefan154
      @juvefan154 Před 14 dny +1

      I eeked when I saw it too :)

  • @baileysmith4744
    @baileysmith4744 Před 15 dny

    one thign that needs to be said is bat speed doesnt correlate to production, but it can correlate to slugging percentage. guys like Steven Kwan and Luis Arraez are very productive hitters, but dont have high bat speed because they hit for batting average. that is productive, and OPS can be similar to guys who hit for slugging percentage and have high bat speed with equal production

  • @Extinguisher10
    @Extinguisher10 Před 14 dny

    Looks like we're going to have some new Foolish videos coming out :)

  • @traviswrigg5158
    @traviswrigg5158 Před 14 dny

    Me looking at the scatterplot: "Man who's the weirdo living off by themselves in the top right. That player must either be very good or very bad"
    Bailey: "Look over here at Juan Soto who's off by himself in the top right. That's good"
    Me: "I always knew my large adult time traveling son was special"

  • @jacksonhauge
    @jacksonhauge Před 14 dny

    I think it’s important to note bat size as well. To accelerate a bat that’s 36 oz. Is way different than something that’s 30 oz

  • @papabless6969
    @papabless6969 Před 15 dny

    Juan Soto having that bat speed with a higher contact % than arraez is insane

  • @Wonkle_
    @Wonkle_ Před 14 dny

    Im really impressed to see Isaac Paredes sitting at 67.5mph with the 13th lowest bat speed in the league. Comparing him to the guys around him he almost seems to be an anomaly being a 30+ home run guy while in the company of guys like Jeff Mcneil, IKF, Verdugo when talking bat speed

  • @alexvincent4652
    @alexvincent4652 Před 15 dny

    I still am curious of bat mass/hitter mass and the correlation of exit velocity off the same swing speed.
    Also would really love to see attack angles of each hitter (bat path in regards to pitching plane) for example KeBryan Hayes consistently slamming the ball into the dirt because of his bat path

  • @Th3DarkCanuck
    @Th3DarkCanuck Před 15 dny

    This is a great feature! One question.. how many cats and or dogs sat on your hat?

  • @jackj3311
    @jackj3311 Před 14 dny

    i feel like swords drawn (which is a great way to put it) might be more fun if pitchers had that data tracked

  • @aljon5947
    @aljon5947 Před 15 dny +2

    Why does the fast swing rate use a fixed threshold? What if a slow bat speed hitter just cant reach that speed but still tries to swing hard sometimes?

    • @1uckedout
      @1uckedout Před 15 dny

      I don't think there's much reason to care about how much effort a guy puts into his swing.

  • @djlawrence2508
    @djlawrence2508 Před 15 dny

    Love the Daft Punk reference thank you Bailey

  • @russellloncon5372
    @russellloncon5372 Před 15 dny +1

    I feel like exit velo does this but better, especially cause guys mash balls without that elite bat speed. I do think it’s intriguing for pitchers, guys who are making hitters swing slower and switching up timing

  • @Talynen
    @Talynen Před 15 dny +1

    Id like to see a correction factor for bat MOI/weight. Guys might swing the bat faster than Judge but most of them arent swinging 35/33 bats.

  • @conquistadorito
    @conquistadorito Před 15 dny +1

    I think a maximum bat speed leaderboard might be useful

  • @nickkowal619
    @nickkowal619 Před 15 dny

    I learned something today. That Bailey, known 90s Braves slugger and legend, didn't have to swing more than 45 mph to get to his prodigious power.

  • @chriswr_
    @chriswr_ Před 15 dny +1

    hell yeah just in time for my 15 minute on the clock work shit

  • @tjizzle8155
    @tjizzle8155 Před 12 dny

    This will change everything

  • @localneo-graphic4647
    @localneo-graphic4647 Před 14 dny

    Lol, Giancarlo swings on average 5mph faster than Ohtani, what a beast.

  • @seanmcgowan3506
    @seanmcgowan3506 Před 15 dny

    Interesting stats. I think this will be most useful to track when a hitter is over the hill as I assume their bat speed will take a dive

  • @BigOleJarOfDirt
    @BigOleJarOfDirt Před 14 dny

    Thanks for showing me that despite how good Ohtani is. Soto is quite literally the most efficient and best bat in baseball.

  • @TheRug1998
    @TheRug1998 Před 14 dny

    This is all fine and good, but who do I sign that’s a free agent in may who will save my season?

  • @neal3489
    @neal3489 Před 6 dny

    Pretty interesting how Harper's upward violent swing is actually not that high above average. Wonder how much faster it was in his prime.

  • @pedrocavalcanti2147
    @pedrocavalcanti2147 Před 13 dny

    Despite having the slowest bat speed, Luis Arraez has a 47.2 squared up contact %. Juan Soto is 11th place and has a 48.4 squared up contact %.

  • @aw.8.
    @aw.8. Před 14 dny

    Would be cool if they included the weight of the bat each player uses as well

  • @jcorn12
    @jcorn12 Před 15 dny

    Swords are gonna be cool as a pitcher stat. Not really helpful to say anything about the hitter but would love to line it up to see the pitchers that induce the most swords

  • @markusmarkus6900
    @markusmarkus6900 Před 15 dny

    i feel like bat speed will be better than exit veloxity for predicting since its on a per (competitive)swing rate and not bip rate

  • @trofl
    @trofl Před 15 dny

    Dan Haren called out!

  • @Skry2764
    @Skry2764 Před 14 dny

    Shwarber with 11 swords is tremendous

  • @slaqasdq8787
    @slaqasdq8787 Před 13 dny

    whats really interesting to me is that there are some guys at the bottom of the list that are hitting for power. Like Paredes, or even Turner, MAYBE even Tyler Nevin, if you wanted to go there. Nevin hits the ball harder than most players, but is still at the bottom of the list. Interesting.

  • @brendanlloyd1347
    @brendanlloyd1347 Před 15 dny

    Wake up the goat just dropped

  • @cltmck
    @cltmck Před 15 dny +1

    So basically Wyatt Langford with his short swing, high bat velo, and low chase and whiff rates and 98th percentile sprint speed means he's going to be early 90s Barry Bonds in a few years.

    • @1uckedout
      @1uckedout Před 15 dny +2

      You'd think so but he can't seem to square up the ball. Also he doesn't seem to be making good swing decisions. I swear he watches more pitches down the middle and swings at more tough pitches than anybody.

    • @michaelstein7510
      @michaelstein7510 Před 14 dny +1

      @@1uckedoutI think he’ll improve rapidly with enough reps. He wasn’t even a consistent starter at Florida until his sophomore season and he breezed through the minors, so he doesn’t have as many at-bats against high-level pitching as most younger players starting out. I’m confident he’ll adjust and be a beast for years to come. So will Dylan Crews.

    • @1uckedout
      @1uckedout Před 12 dny

      @@michaelstein7510 He'll probably figure it out eventually. I think it was too soon to put him on the roster though. A good spring has almost no correlation to a good season but he mashed in spring so they called him up immediately. You a rangers fan?

    • @michaelstein7510
      @michaelstein7510 Před 12 dny

      @@1uckedout I guess you could call me a casual Astros fan. Really I’m an LSU fan, so I’m more passionate about college baseball and follow the MLB on the side. I’ve been going to Astros games on summer vacations since I was a little kid, but the whole 2017 thing has really taken the fun out of being an Astros fan, even after winning one without scandal. It’ll just never feel the same.
      Wyatt Langford and Dylan Crews will both be ready to play outfield in the MLB full-time by next year, I think. They just need a bit more seasoning. They have hitting talent nobody can coach.

  • @localfox1000
    @localfox1000 Před 15 dny

    someone explain mookie's well below bat speed inverse correlated with his overall slugging.

  • @usmile1
    @usmile1 Před 14 dny

    let’s start the wilyer abreu ROY discussion

  • @Harapan162
    @Harapan162 Před 15 dny

    what are compitive swings

  • @ultradevo
    @ultradevo Před 15 dny

    I think Luis Arraez being 2 mph slower than the second slowest is really interesting. The man is quite literally hitting by just turning the barrel in the zone, those videos of him in the cage are insane.

  • @cltmck
    @cltmck Před 15 dny

    Javy Baez having the longest swing length by far despite only being 6 feet tall is, well, not at all surprising.

  • @degenscoobydoo
    @degenscoobydoo Před 15 dny

    Hearing that Statcast now has bat tracking!

  • @marcelduda3909
    @marcelduda3909 Před 15 dny

    Vladi would probably be higher if his season wasn't this abnormally bad.
    As a cubs fan, I am not at all surprised by Morel. He is a great cleanup hitter and still very underrated

    • @smime5672
      @smime5672 Před 15 dny

      Is it abnormally bad, he’s on a better war pace that 3 of his 5 seasons and he has a higher wrc+ than 3 of his 5 seasons as well, I think that one great season as well as being a top prospect really throws people off of what his actual production has been like.

  • @TheActualJae
    @TheActualJae Před 15 dny

    This definitely needs to be broken down into situations batspeed. Kinda like with pitchers, you know, not every pitch is the same speed. Hitters have different styles of swings they may use depending on what they are trying to do. I'm assuming that if we looked at the batspeed on every at bat and made a scatter plot, we'd see contextual groupings. Ie., they prolly swing much harder on 3-0 than on 0-2 for example.

  • @Lionlover666
    @Lionlover666 Před 15 dny

    The angels Jo Adell who is breaking out at the perfect time is #10 currently in average bat speed.

  • @nate_storm
    @nate_storm Před 15 dny

    Does the length of the bat affect how bat speed is measured?

    • @aljon5947
      @aljon5947 Před 15 dny +1

      they measure 6 inches away from the head of the bat which is the sweet spot. so i assume head means end of the bat.
      so yes it does affect the measurement, but longer bats take more strength to swing and control

  • @jamesweldon8118
    @jamesweldon8118 Před 14 dny

    I feel like a pattern will emerge with swords eventually but the sample is too small after 30ish games

  • @chrislewis5069
    @chrislewis5069 Před 14 dny

    I don't know how accurate this is. I think it's more about torque. Bat speed isn't as important

  • @rottenavacado2896
    @rottenavacado2896 Před 15 dny

    Wonder what Clint Frazier’s was

  • @jroggs85
    @jroggs85 Před 15 dny

    xSwords/9+ is the new meta stat. Or possibly a gamer handle from the early '00s.

  • @a_bad_bassist6404
    @a_bad_bassist6404 Před 15 dny

    Please can we get a Lamonte Wade Jr video

  • @DA-yl8js
    @DA-yl8js Před 15 dny

    Bailey will find a way to tie William Contreras' bat speed to the Brewer's catching lab

  • @tylerbeckley5452
    @tylerbeckley5452 Před 15 dny

    Hey Bailey, did you hear they have bat tracking stats on savant now? They’re even tracking swords!

  • @hate2tellyoubut
    @hate2tellyoubut Před 15 dny

    that javy baez swing length at 6' tall feels so long

  • @Impepega
    @Impepega Před 15 dny

    7:30 ANDY PAGES SPOTTING!!!!!! RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  • @ElvargsBane
    @ElvargsBane Před 13 dny

    Where's the info for bat weight and length?

  • @WakeNJake
    @WakeNJake Před 14 dny

    wake n jake sent me here tomorrow (what)

  • @lionheartz1337
    @lionheartz1337 Před 15 dny

    Considering his exit velocity feats im shocked Shohei isnt higher

    • @1uckedout
      @1uckedout Před 15 dny

      He probably swings a pretty hefty bat. That's where this leader board could be a little misleading.

  • @pizzaparity
    @pizzaparity Před 15 dny

    this is me when statcast has bat tracking now

  • @ryzai8672
    @ryzai8672 Před 15 dny

    Does this track in the minor leagues at all? I would be interested in knowing Junior Caminero’s bat speed considering his 90th pct exit velo’s were like top 5 in all of baseball last season, and people have described him as having freak bat speed.

  • @Nein1no
    @Nein1no Před 15 dny

    Awesome data but NGL, I'm kinda disappointed there's no easy way (yet) to see max swing speed, and for the heck of it, lowest bat speed.

  • @flyingskier1913
    @flyingskier1913 Před 15 dny +1

    I only make uncompetitive swings

  • @Ben-ok4gx
    @Ben-ok4gx Před 15 dny

    Nice Melonheads hat

  • @extragoogleaccount6061

    If you had to live the rest of your life with either baseball but no statistics or statistics but no baseball, which would you pick?

  • @bluemeltedpopsicle
    @bluemeltedpopsicle Před 15 dny

    what if I can't see this video right now?

  • @totallynotmyeggalt6216

    Thoughts on Josh Rojas (arguably the best hitter on the Mariners so far this season) being at the bottom of the bat speed charts?

    • @Speedster___
      @Speedster___ Před 15 dny +3

      Refer to Luis Arrez.

    • @Ben-ok4gx
      @Ben-ok4gx Před 15 dny

      The defense is solid

    • @crystal_pepsi
      @crystal_pepsi Před 15 dny

      They keep their bat in the zone longer, higher average but lower power

    • @totallynotmyeggalt6216
      @totallynotmyeggalt6216 Před 15 dny

      @@Speedster___ My point was more that Rojas has an OPS nearly 200 points higher despite their similarity

  • @ChuPapi74
    @ChuPapi74 Před 13 dny

    Why did you have to do Gavin Sheets like that.

  • @miguelfernandes1096
    @miguelfernandes1096 Před 15 dny

    Damn, I got here early by accident😂 Nice stuff tho

  • @carsonteolis7204
    @carsonteolis7204 Před 15 dny

    Bat speed and exit velocity have to be combined with each other when talking about breakouts.

  • @thenightrider2121
    @thenightrider2121 Před 15 dny

    Why does it not surprise me that the leader in swords is an Angels player?

  • @fionngallagher501
    @fionngallagher501 Před 15 dny

    She statcast on my bat until I uh umm idk

  • @FN32DXer
    @FN32DXer Před 15 dny

    no way

  • @TheTEN24
    @TheTEN24 Před 15 dny

    Love this new stat tracking however I can’t be impressed by Baty because he’s dead last in barreling % on your graph. He’s such a tough player to judge rn as his defense has improved like crazy but the bat hasn’t followed yet.

    • @FoolishBailey
      @FoolishBailey  Před 15 dny +1

      The point though is that it illustrates power potential (even if he hasn’t hit for power due to lack of solid contact)

    • @TheTEN24
      @TheTEN24 Před 15 dny

      @@FoolishBailey oh I totally get it. It’s definitely something to be hopeful translates. We’re gonna need it

  • @tjizzle8155
    @tjizzle8155 Před 12 dny

    That's why he has to turn in so dramatic......if not be would open up to fast