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Spyfall Part 2 - Take Two Doctor Who Review
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2022
- The Master is on the rampage and the Doctor's companions are in a plane about to crash. Let's see how the Fam gets out of this one, and if it holds up after a strong first part.
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![DID IT SUCK? | Doctor Who [SPYFALL PART 2 REVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bBDuXhI4drA/mqdefault.jpg)
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: czcams.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/video.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: czcams.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/video.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: czcams.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: czcams.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/video.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: czcams.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/video.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: czcams.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/video.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: czcams.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/video.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: czcams.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/video.html
While the shocking destruction of Gallifrey at the end was surprising at the time, I have now come to dislike that decision since it eliminates the potential of more creative avenues and stories that could've been told with Gallifrey and makes the Doctor's redemptive choice at the end of Day of the Doctor pointless. Also, the notion that the Master destroyed Gallifrey single-handedly absolutely ridiculous.
Ehhh, the Master was able to do that it in the classic era. I assume that there is an entire adventure in which the master infiltrates manipulates and disposes of the Gallifreyan hierarchy until he is in command of all of their catalog doomsday weapons and then he uses them to destroy Gallifrey. This is not unreasonable, this is just something he has never wanted to do.
@@LorasTyrell354 It did not make it pointless. All of the Doctor's grief and self-hatred was real.
@@LorasTyrell354not really the doctors character has fundamentally gotten darker ever since that event
@@sean._.6375 6 and 7 would like to enter the chat
@@nymphrodellsalavin yea fair point but they’re darkness isn’t quite the same as the doctors proceeding the time war
Since there’s no way The Master alone could do what the entire Dalek army couldn’t even do, I think there is a really interesting story that could be told about Gallifreyan refugees scattered across the universe
Back in classic who the master's actions accidently began the end of the universe so one planet is a doddle.
This is one of the weirder cases of Chibnall apparently just not caring at all about giving villains proper comeuppances. This time Thirteen doesn't even get to give Black Zuckerberg a lecture before letting him go; he just saunters off with seemingly none of the hundreds of people around caring about bringing him to any kind of justice now that his scheme is exposed.
“Black Zuckerberg” 😆 Love it!
Yep, just like Donald Trump sauntered off after shooting the spider.
Not going to lie, this episode soured me on the idea that series 12 would be an improvement on s11 (which is sadly my favourite one of this era in hindsight) to the point where I just couldn't be bothered to get around to watching the rest until months after it had aired. Given that I'm autistic and DW is one of my particular fixations, I feel like that's a damning show of just how much Chibnall fumbled his dull-as-dishwater scripts.
While I hear your point that the Master's ideology/methodology doesn't mesh with the Nazis, that's kinda par for the course for the Master. They're *constantly* forming tenuous alliances with other forces that inevitably lead to one or the other betraying their ally. The Nestene, the Daleks, the Mondasians, to a lesser extent the Toclafane. That's just sorta what they do.
Counterpoint: there’s a violent and vengeful pattern to this Doctor.
Arachnids in the UK she leaves the spiders to die.
Here she leaves the Master not just to be imprisoned, but to suffer and maybe even die.
(Going by memory here)
Timeless Children: her plan is to use the bomb to wipe out all Gallifrey life (Master and Cyberlords). She doesn’t do it, but it was her plan.
Upcoming Special she crushes all the daleks who respond in a TARDIS after using them to kill all the other ones.
Flux: she uses the Flux to wipe out a bunch of Daleks and Cybermen.
Eve of Daleks: no problem destroying the whole storage building with daleks inside.
Then here, Rosa, and Woman who fell; she sends people off to unknown places at the end; master is left to the monsters, Rosa villain is sent to an unknown time, tooth guy is sent back to his people for punishment (or so she thought).
Maybe this was thought out. Maybe this is this Doctor. When angry, she has a very dark side (a lot like 10)
The reason I have a hard time believing it was intended is because she frequently contradicts these in other episodes or even the same episodes. Take Arachnids in the UK, where she gets up in arms about the Trump analog wanting to shoot the spiders, when it was already her plan to kill them just not that way. It doesn't feel like flexible morals as much as confused morals. So my stance is that if they planned to have her be more intentionally violent (as someone like the 5th Doctor could be) then they bungled the execution over the course of her run.
@@CouncilofGeeks It was like a child - with little appreciation of moral consistency or proper character development - had been asked "What would the Doctor do here? And here? And here?"
The Doctor did not send the antagonist in Rosa to an unknown time. That was Ryan's doing.
What bugged me most about the "double action" against the Master is what he says later in the episode, when we see him again - he suggests he basically went the long way around, living through all the decades since the war. That would be credible had he been just a spy - though even then, there's be a high likelihood for an execution - but as a spy who tried to fake his membership of the "master race" - I'm pretty sure his fate would have been sealed rather quickly.
I enjoyed this quite a bit at the time, but all it has going for it is a somewhat interesting performance from Dhawan- I like the physicality he brings like the way he gets up in people's faces. Its a pile of recycled ideas without really understanding why they worked in the first place, and it makes catastrophically horrendous and misguided decisions. There's a reason we didn't do Doctor vs the Nazis back in the 60s and its not just relegated to THAT scene. The Doctor wipes Noor's mind (particularly egregious after Hell Bent) and then leaves her to her fate- a scene that was even filmed but they obviously had to cut because that's an even worse look. It being filmed in the same block as Orphan 55 makes a lot of sense- I think they're both as badly constructed.
The fact that Chibnall (intentionally or not) ignores the Capaldi run really ends up hurting his own plots: it already made a pretty definitive statement on the Doctor casually wiping memories, Missy's arc would have given Sasha good dramatic material to work with (even if he was still just as evil as in the finished product) AND Wedding of River Song pretty concretely escorted out the idea that the Doctor can't be in relationships with humans. Its wild.
Episode 1 was a great mystery box, but, like JJ Abrams, Chibbers doesn't quite stick the landing. The visuals and Master do a superb job papering over the cracks, however the aliens, Lenny Henry (and Stephen Fry) seem totally wasted here.
Maybe the Master should have also been the CEO, so there would have been more time for the aliens' (back)story?
Maybe it's just me, but the more I think about this story, the more I realise that despite its name obviously referencing Skyfall, it's actually got a lot more in common with Spectre. Think about it:
- Both stories have a fun first half that's full of loads of tropes associated with the older Bond films
- A character is revealed to be a major villain from the series' past in a big moment
- Both villains have set about targeting the heroes due to a major twist centred around their respective pasts
- The A-plot is focussed on the hero and villain getting involved in a large-scale cat and mouse chase that ends up completely overtaking the rest of the story
- There's a supporting villain whose plot is centred around themes of data collection, surveillance, and the increased usage of technology in modern spycraft
- The B-plot focusses on the hero's allies forced onto the back foot while trying to take down the secondary villain
- Both feature a bad guy with parental issues and who ended up killing said parent
- Both end with the destruction of a major location within the series
- Both stories end with the main villain (or in this case villains) inexplicably being left alive to fight another day
I have such a good time with Sacha's master that I find myself not caring much at all about the shortcomings 😅
The thing about the Doctor turning off the Master's perception filter thing is interesting. My instinct both now and when I first watched it is that (and I say this cautiously, knowing I am not part of the affected group) it feels... iffy, to say the least, but in terms of pure pragmatism a valid strategy to get out of the situation and hopefully put the Master out of action for a little while? Maybe an extra line or two from the Doctoe reflecting on that course of action and at least *acknowledging* the implications of what she did would have helped it go down better.
The master entire plan coming down messing with the doctor really became a throughly for this master and I think it works better in later stories where he's paired with established villains that don't need full explanations.
To me it’s a symbol of the writing for Jodie’s doctor she’s not a main character in her own show. Also a side note please put the tonberrys hood down it doesn’t look right lol
Chibnall’s weakness: good ideas not finished well.
Too many ideas. Abandoned, obliterated, forgotten.
I fully agree on your initial criticism of this episode - it honestly feels like two episodes badly smashed together (the Master episode shoved into a non-Master episode, which does not meld), lacking coherent (or, ideally, resonant) themes and writing between the two storylines. It also unfortunately highlighted some of the biggest issues I had with the Chibnall era: overstuffed episodes full of half-baked ideas (okay, that latter part already kind of reared its head in the 1st season) and very poorly established big stakes moments (that usually ramp up to a big thing really suddenly) that are resolved far too easily (for instance, the opening plane bit is just...horrendous payoff) or through ridiculously convoluted plans (that seem to add unnecessary complexity for the hell of it). While those problems had flared up in the previous season, they plagued Flux and the subsequent specials especially. For all the problems Moffatt had, he tended to do a good job of building the stakes without just jumping to 11 and the resolutions were rarely this lacklustre or convoluted.
As I've said on the previous video (admittedly, in a comment just posted slightly before this one - I'm watching these in a bit of a binge and writing comments out to post later for reasons I don't feel like explaining right now) - I'm not as much of a fan of Sacha Dawan's Master as I am John Simm's, and this video kind of hits upon why. This two-parter especially felt like a poor version of Army of Ghosts mixed with Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords (and other episodes, as mentioned), leaving a sour taste in my mouth in general, but it also highlighted how Dawan's take felt like an off-brand version of Simm's, rather that something new or mixing other versions (Missy felt like a great evolution of Simm's if it had taken a certain direction [partly because Michelle Gomez is fantastic], but Dawan's could have instead mixed in some of the venom from Derek Jacobi's brief stint or authority of other past versions) and as I say in the other video's comment, I feel Dawan merely cranked up the "deranged wackiness" that usually felt more restrained for much of Simm's run (most of End of Time excepted, which is one reason I dislike it a bit). To clarify: I'm not blaming Dawan, as I think the episode's writer, the showrunner, and the director also have a part to play in that (and hey, Chibnall was 2/3 there, at least for these episodes) - I'd even be interested to see Dawan carry over for this new Doctor, to see how RTD handles him and how a different Doctor might highlight a different relationship (also, potentially a better plan and script to boot).
I'd completely forgotten that this was also the episode that revealed Gallifrey's destruction. As someone who started with NuWho, that really felt horrendous, as it essentially undid a story that was about a decade in the making (the aftermath of the Time War eventually leading to the revelation Gallifrey survived, then the hints of its return, then Moffatt's underwhelming use of it to kind of wrap up Clara's story, only to...just have it destroyed off-camera in this).
Aida using the grenade and the Doctor disapproving reminded me of 7 and Ace......the 7th Doctor often disappoved Ace blowing things up.....sometimes he'd try talking Ace out of doing it....but if ahe was going to do it any way or it really needed to be done, like when Ace blew up Daleks....ok, do it.....then the 7th Doctor used the Hand of Omega to make a special bat for Ace....one that could knock the heck out of Cybermen or Daleks
Oh yeah, I forgot they jump across time a few times. This reminds me of Flux episode 5 that also has Yaz, Dan, and Jericho go up and down their own adventures.
Each one of those time jumps could be its own episode.
Given that 13 framed the Master's false persona - the face/appearance the perception filter gave him - as a double agent, his real face, weirdly enough, could actually buy him a chance to weasel himself out of the situation, because he now no longer looks like the guy they're looking for. But yeah, even considering the fact that the Nazis didn't actually instantly murder any person darker than a paper bag the second they laid eyes on them, and that being a PoC maaaaayyyybeee even have made it more likely that the Nazis would underestimate the Master and thus be tricked by him more easily, the Doctor leaving him to the tender mercies of literal effing Nazis does indeed stink. The fact that he's a brown man to her white woman adds several layers of ugliness to that behaviour, the weaponisation of white feminity against PoC is an integral part of white supremacy (cp White Women's Tears). So yeah, "bit not good", as Stephen Moffat had John Watson say.
The Nazis weren't as opposed to Asians/Indians as they were towards other minorities, and indeed there was an Indian legion of the SS.
In my current rewatch of the Chibnall era I am noticing that the characterization and growth tend to be the best parts.
Slightly related question: Did it bother you when the Twelfth Doctor ripped Davros-a disabled man-out of his chair?
Honestly? No, not personally. Keeping in mind that I'm not disabled so my opinion should not be taken over others, but given the history between the two I have a hard time getting on the Doctor's case about it. Granted the Doctor and the Master have a similar history, but again she's weaponizing real world hatred (which just makes me uncomfortable) and it was completely unnecessary, she didn't have to do it. At least the Doctor used Davros' chair after stealing it.
I disagree with your characterization of The Master as not genocidal for its own sake. In his very first story (Terror of the Autons), his two goals were to kill The Doctor and wipe out humanity. That continued through his next several episodes.
I still liked it allot. All the 13 & master stuff is terrific and I have zero issue with the perception filter removal . It's a shape the kasaven don't come back later as they are very cool and it is wrapped up way to quick but I still enjoy it allot
A bit of a step down, a bit overstuffed - all true. But I still find it satisfies the setup enough (despite the numerous issue). And also, as a programmer, I like seeing Ada Lovelace come along. So I think it’s okay overall. C+
I didn’t like this version of the Master at all, and am surprised so many others do. To call his performance “ham fisted” is generous. He’s so cartoonishly over the top - like 10 times beyond Missy (who got the balance just right) 😣
& next week get ready for…Benny? …Benny?….Benny?…Benny?!!
I'm still waiting for Jodi's Era to get a bundled set, but I think the plane rescue seemed rushed to me. Of course I had more issues with timeless child and the masters reaction to it. but I'll talk about that some other time.
With Spyfall 2 I think I didn't notice the rushed pace because their was such a great master. Though I agree they should have stretched his reveal out, wrapped up the other story then showed what he had been doing behind the scenes in the next episode.
I thought Bartan was an interesting character. I was disappointed when he was killed off-I think they could have done more with him. I would have liked him and Jericho to be recurring for a few years.
This feels like it should've veen a season long story culnination
Great review as ever I still like this two parter but agree with your assessment can't wait for next weeks video
Definitely think this second part was a bit of a let down. Jodie and Sacha are electric together, but that's the best part of this episode. The story kinda falls apart where the first part had a genuinely interesting mystery, the companions don't do much either. It's a shame, not unenjoyable but a let down from such a strong first part
dont know if youll see this but in your playlist you have a review of malignant by dead meat #56
Fixed
What's even dumber about the Doctor removing the Master's perception-filter is that there _were_ Indians in the German army, and furthermore the "Indische Legion der Waffen-SS" (SS Indian Legion) was stationed not far from Paris around the time Spyfall II was set. An Asian-looking Master could thus have passed himself off as one of the Indian Legion without needing a disguise, and it might have made an interesting educational plot-point. Sloppy research by Chibnall, perhaps? Alternatively he did know about this, but deliberately didn't go there because it sent out the "wrong" message. I can see why Chibnall included the narratively-redundant Lovelace and Khan to highlight the contribution of women to computing and the allied war effort... but Indians fighting for the Nazis? I guess that would have been a harder sell.
I actually thought the doc at the end going 'oh shit!!' realising she needs to go back and actually save her companions was great what an adhd queen
barton having mother issues feels like it's an attempt at giving him depth beyond 'wants to take over the world' but since there is so much going on it doesn't work. and oh how I hate that nazi scene. I think the doc should have a wack moral compass and do horrible things to achieve a 'good' cause, because I think that makes for good storytelling, but I don't know if giving someone who appears to be a non-white human to the literal nazis was the right thing in terms of what the show should, well, show? it wasn't a well-planned move and defo unnecessary at the very least.
I do think that the destruction of gallifrey at the end was, while coming out of left field and definitely only there as shock value, the best move. it didn't outright say 'there are no more time lords and gallifrey is destroyed as in totally gone with nothing left' while still putting it out of action (esp. prior to flux imo) idk I think that it was for the best. I DO, however, think the reason the master is so obsessed with the timeless child is because they're the actual timeless child, not the doc, and came up with a convoluted plan (which imo is a very mastery thing to do, like I've watched classic s8) to take down the doctor for good - which culminated in potd, what's to say it hasn't been like. three weeks for him instead of the whole series for the doc?
Honestly, ever since the Time War I feel like the Master would think WWII was funny.
On the Nazi stuff.
I feel like the Master has done awful stuff that does reflect real world hate. Most specifically taking in Martha's family as slaves felt very uncomfortable. Plus him working as a Nazi in general isn't exactly working in his favor. However having a white woman turn a POC into the Nazis is completely tone deaf. I think if the Master had more of a smirky reaction to the turn it would help the scene.
maybe have him rage out for a minute then smile at the doctor. Her smile from beating him in the scene turns serious to which the Master says
"You know it won't take me that long to take care of these guys"
the doctor replies.
"yeah, but at least I've slowed you down"
The terrible things that the villains do are objectively as bad as (and indeed frequently abstractions of) real life villainy such as racists and Nazis. So when the Doctor punches racists or suggests that the Nazi uniform is a new low for the Master, the show is effectively breaking the fourth wall and admitting the other villains are fictional, so their villainy does not carry the same weight.
This is similar to a Time Lord who explores all of time and space, disproportionately quoting modern Earth songs and books (e.g. Harry Potter and the Lion King), and indeed almost exclusively taking modern Earth companions.
The counter argument is that Doctor Who is actually fictional, and targeted at a real life audience, whose sensibilities need to be taken into account. However I would prefer for that to not be admitted inside the show.
This just might be me (and feel free to say so) but the two (to three) parters in Nu Who never succeeded. I mean Part 1 or 2 (or 3) don’t gel with each other, there’s never a satisfying conclusion to the cliffhanger or episode itself. “What about Classic Who?” you might say, well that was how Doctor Who was made back in the day, 20-25 minutes per episode. So I give that a pass. SJA and Torchwood: Children of Earth (Series 3) are the only serialised shows that succeeded with their cliffhangers or episodes in general, in my opinion.
Still terrible then