My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: czcams.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/video.html My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: czcams.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/video.html My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: czcams.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: czcams.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/video.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: czcams.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/video.html Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: czcams.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/video.html Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: czcams.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/video.html Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: czcams.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/video.html
As someone who has dealt with severe depression throughout my life I’d say I didn’t feel like this episode really captured what it feels like to have depression (I didn’t even realize that’s what it was doing when I first saw it) but I get how it can be powerful with people who have to watch people they care about go through that kind of internal struggle from the outside. We don’t really see much of Ryan’s friend and what he’s feeling but we do get to see the way seeing him suffer affects Ryan and how he feels powerless in helping him. The Yaz scene also doesn’t really give us much insight into Yaz’s interiority and she mostly just sits passively as the cop talks at her, though we do learn about the cop’s feelings as she talks about how she wishes she can impart her wisdom of age to this young woman. Even the Graham scene isn’t really about Graham but about 13’s difficulty in being there for the people she cares about. So yeah I didn’t relate to this episode as reflecting on my experience with depression, but I can see it working as a metaphor for how difficult it can be for people on the outside who want to help more than anything but don’t know how to fight monsters they themselves can’t see. (Which is also what Vincent and the Doctor is) In terms of episodes that, in my opinion, depict what it feels like to have depression, I would pick Heaven Sent and Amy’s Choice. Heaven Sent shows the inner experience of every single day feeling like a struggle to make even the tiniest bit of progress towards getting better (the triumph of punching the wall feels like the triumph of just getting out of bed most days). In Amy’s Choice the Dream Lord is a great metaphor for that constant voice in your head that hates you so much and wants to hurt you so much that it ends up hurting your friends too. Also, unrelated but I’ve been saying that Zelan and the other woman should have filled the Ravagers’ roles since flux aired and I’m glad to find I’m not the only one!
Okay, my brain is really liking this idea of having the two "gods" from this episode as the main villains of Flux. It would mean the Doctor directly influenced the beginning of the Flux in her current incarnation. And perhaps the Renegade Doctor was the one who'd trapped them originally, and that's why it ties back into her and Carvhanista. And a lot of this toying with her would have additional layers. Now I want to rewatch this, then rewatch Flux, and figure out how that could work and fanfic it, because my brain is racing. Vera, you are inspiring!
That infamous scene at the end... actually resonated with me. I have legitimately crippling social anxiety, and I am absolutely awfulness that sort of thing. I know it. I have cut myself off from countless friendships because it just felt awful to ask for someone's friendship and support, when I was just flat out unable to support them in turn. I think it was clumsily handled, as with many thing this era, but seeing even an attempt was surprisingly moving for me.
The backstory with Yaz was so interesting and what I liked most about this episode. But, like most things with Chibnal, it then is never relevant to anything that ever happens to Yaz. In fact, after this episode, they just gave up on Yaz's character development altogether. So rewatching is like "this is interesting, but we all know it goes nowhere".
Yeah, I think you're VERY charitable to the "I'm still socially awkward" scene. The scene is frustrating because having social anxiety doesn't mean you can't be there for your friends when they express deep, dark stuff. She's always going on about how they're her "fam" and the best people she knows, but never opens up to them and she never talks to them. It would be one thing if she said, "I don't know what to say, but I can listen for as long as you like" (I can hear you), but instead she says, "I don't know what to say, so I'm gonna go do over here and pretend to do something else." Nobody who dislikes this scene is misinterpreting it, we don't like what it's doing or how it's being executed. She was just kind of being a bad friend here. I'm not saying she needs to do a whole speech, but the Doctor has never had a huge problem with talking to companions about their fears and anxieties and trying to make them feel as good as she's able in the moment, but this incarnation of the Doctor is simultaneously incredibly needy and terminally unable to be there for people, but it's never addressed and it's never resolved. It would have been stronger if it was one of the human characters having that reaction to Graham imo.
Yeah, as a social awkward person myself, it almost feels like it's trying to say social awkwardness =/= empathy, which is very untrue in many cases (also something leveled at neurodivergent people, btw -- also me -- which is frustrating). I think you can be very empathetic, but also socially awkward. You may not know the 'right' thing to say or do for your friend in need, but you can try your best, instead of running/deflecting. Sometimes just listening to someone is all someone needs. Or someone just being there. If you're flailing, why not just ask 'What can I do to help you right now?' or something? This instead feels like the Doctor just doesn't 'have time' for Graham's concerns. And that hurts. But I guess YMMV.
Chris Chibnall has said that in his experience (he had cancer when he was 22) people were generally unsure what to say to him. In essence, he's writing from his own experience. That said, he also mentioned that he did write a more emphatic response, but he just thought it sounded hollow; which is fair enough, I'd have thought.
Can I give my opinion as an autistic person? This scene was beautiful and empathetic, both to Graham *and* to the Doctor. It doesn't matter whether the Doctor is autistic or not (one can't really diagnose an alien with anything so human), but I and a lot of other autistic people see ourselves in this character, in ways that differ from incarnation to incarnation. Vera's absolutely right with her interpretation and explanation, but my extra point is that this incarnation of the Doctor struggles to know how to comfort a friend (a common thing for autistic people, and something which can often lead to the distressing assumption that we don't care just because we don't know how to externalise that care as well as others, especially on the spot). The show doesn't punish her for this, nor does it make the assumption some people in the replies are making that it's due to a lack of empathy, it just allows her the grace to be unsure of how to react, to outline this fact and to let her friend know that she will respond properly when she's thought of what to say. I've had similar interactions with (also autistic) friends before, where someone might not know how to help and will express that, and it's great because communication and understanding have prevailed, which is far better than just saying the wrong thing. Anyway, sorry for all the words, but people interpreting this scene as the Doctor being a bad friend hits a really personal note, and I know a lot of autistic people who feel the same. Please think about how different neurotypes process the world and struggle to communicate in the same ways you do.
@@KatzePiano No need to ask to give your opinion or apologize for all the words! 🙂 My comment wasn't exactly pithy either lol I do sympathize with this reading, and I understand what you mean. Again, I'm not misinterpreting the scene, I get what Chibnall is trying to do, I've read the interview and the statement, I've watched the video essays, but one of my problems is that this is very out of character for /the Doctor/ specifically. She's a millennium's old alien; there's no reason she'd have nothing to say to Graham. Maybe it's a taste thing, but I'd rather her muster up SOMETHING even if it's imperfect. Also, I can't deny that I do find it weird that it's the first female Doctor who never has anything comforting to say, struggles to express empathy, and is socially awkward. I mean, Capaldi had the same issue with the damn cue card scene in "Before the Flood", which I didn't really like either. If in every other episode 13 was kind and compassionate and confident, and then "Can You Hear Me?" was this sort of thing where maybe something was too personal to respond to in the moment, but she still reassured him that they'd continue the conversation later, I could understand that, but this incarnation of the Doctor has kind of just BEEN dismissive and unkind and self-conscious for her entire run up to this point, so this doesn't land as well as it could have. Maybe even make it clear that she's better with life or death situations because they're big and external and easier to solve. Or my other idea: Give a human character this scene to respond to Graham. Maybe write an actual autistic companion for the TARDIS crew. I doubt that would have received this backlash, because it's an original character and we the audience have gotten to know them by now. I think having an actual character always trumps coding, so that's also my own personal gripe, I suppose. This scene always felt like a really shoehorned rewrite of who the Doctor is at a core level, for a scene that just falls flat (for most people). Now it's MY turn to apologize for all the words lol. I'm not responding with any malice, I promise you. I've got my own little quirks of neurodivergence. Chibnall's intentions were good, they usually are, but this scene just falls flat in the execution, regardless of intention.
In my case I like what it's doing, just not so much how it's being executed, because I don't believe it was the intention to come across like she's being dismissive or brushing him off, though I can understand why some people are interpreting it that way. It's more about how sometimes it's hard to know what you can say to comfort someone when it comes to mental health. There's not an easy fix that will make everything okay, so sometimes it's better to say nothing. But yeah, could have been executed a hell of a lot better
I've seen a couple of comments that seemed to boil down to, "There's been lots of times the Doctor has been awkward/outright callous with their companions." But there is also the ending to "Vincent and the Doctor." When Amy is breaking down because she thinks that all that they did for Vincent was for nothing, the Doctor at least tried to show her it wasn't. And in an episode that is meant to highlight being honest with your mental health and supporting those in your life that are struggling, it just struck a weird chord with me to see Graham open up to the Doctor about his struggles, only for the Doctor's own issues to prevent her from offering anything except a response that to me sounded like, "Can I put you on hold? And we can talk about it later when I know what to say?"
Maybe the scene would have worked better for me if it went like this: *Graham reveals his fears about his cancer returning and the Doctor is shocked.* 13: I... Graham, I'm... I'm so sorry. I wish I knew what to say. I used to always know what to say, what to do. And now... I... Graham: Then don't say anything. Just be here with me. For a little while. Would ya, doc? *The Doctor brightens up a little and switches off the panel she was working on. She walks over to Graham and leans next to him on the console.* 13: Be here. Yeah. I can do 'be here'. Did an A-level in being here once. Graham: (smiling) Thanks, doc. We would still get 13 being awkward, but her insecurity doesn't push her away from Graham. And the scene would show that when wanting to help a friend with mental illness, what they really need from you isn't a grand speech or waving a magic wand to make everything better. They just need to know you are with them and they are not alone.
If you like the villains in this, you might like the Classic story "Enlightenment" (although it does need a bit of context and is a 5th Doctor story, and I know he's your least favourite)
I have never understood why everyone hated that scene between the Doctor and Graham so much, it was actually super relatable for me! I'm autistic and British so I am absolutely rubbish with people who are upset, I just don't know what to say or do to comfort people, even if my heart is breaking for them, so I end up just being awkwardly silent as my brain gets nothing but an error message and screen of death.
This episode felt like it was written by someone who's only ever seen people who struggle with depression and anxiety and Nuerodivergance rather than experiencing it themselves. And instead of getting to know people's experiences, he just looked up the symptoms in the DSM5
I appreciated it helped give Yaz some character development. Previously in The Woman Who Fell To Earth she just seemed to be a police officer so she could be introduced to Ryan. Here we learn she became a police officer because another police officer was kind to her once when she was upset and tried to run away. Graham has nightmares about an alternative timeline of meeting Grace. In The Woman Who Fell To Earth He mentions they met because she was his nurse when he got cancer and after he recovered they got married. Ryan tries to help his friend and gets chips to convince his friend to un-bolt the door. I liked the animations when explaining how the gods tried to create wars before being outwitted and trapped. I kind of wish this had been written into The Power of The Doctor than just two strange planets with laser beams and the master talking to a camera. Flux was limited by the pandemic but yes I guess with some re-writes it might have worked if they were involved.
This is a strong favourite of this series for me too. Being someone who loves the abstract and downright weird like yourself, this episode just clicks for me as other episodes that deal with negative emotions like Vincent and the Doctor and Heavent Sent. That scene with Graham and the Doctor is relatable to me. It's good for people to come out with their problems, but for the receiver of that information, it can be overwhelming. For myself, I just clamp up like the Doctor, then have to take an awkward step back and say that I needed time to process that information and say, 'Okay. I understand the trouble you're having. I just need to take a step back and get back to you and say something encouraging.' I am lucky to have friends who understand that I need time (being autistic) to process what my brain has to process and then my mouth to say something comforting. I agree it could have been handled better in the episode, but for me, that scene, in particular, is relatable for me. This episode just gets me in a way
In regards to the Graham/Doctor scene, I totally agree and have always been perplexed by the criticism it received. Your read on it is exactly mine. The Doctor was caring for Graham in that moment, just not in the way people wanted or expected her to. I feel as though it may have something to do with it pushing back against the fantasy a lot of people project onto the Doctor as this quirky, funny alien who's function is to deliver trite, empowering monologues when a character has the Big Sad, and when this fantasy is contravened it can cause a lot of upset and anger. Sometimes it's okay to not know how to help somebody in the moment. Graham and the Doctor have perfectly normal - and healthy - interaction, and I'm glad to have seen the Doctor act in a way that's so relatable to me as an autistic person who struggles with communicating with others when it comes to deeply intimate and personal matters. For a character who is so heavily neurodivergent-coded, you'd think people would understand when the Doctor shows a different side to their neurodiversity, but it seems that they only like it when the Doctor aligns with the "eccentric savant" trope.
The problem with the speech in my opinion, is the doctor can be socially awkward, but should know how to reassure a companion, it’s fundamental thing of the DOCTOR. Jodie’s doctor, it fits her character ig but the doctor should know what to say
@@CouncilofGeeks I think it is, the doctor always helps the companion and knows how to help them, I have not watched a lot of Peter Davidson to be honest but fair enough if he does, it's a trait I think the doctor should have
I feel the same way about this that I do most of the Chibnall era: I find it mostly forgettable. So often you'd have to explain to me what it was about before I'd remember. I can't remember them based on titles alone, which has never been the case in the history of the show. I couldn't even remember what this was about until you started showing the clips. When Chibnall's era is most memorable is when he does something that really annoys me.
How you feel is how I feel about the Moffat-Smith era. I just can't remember shit from that era for the life of me. I can remember every Chibnall episode pretty well actually. Helps that I like most of them (though I think it never could quite reach heights that previous eras were able to reach).
Just to say, really enjoying the Doctor Who reviews on this channel. Got me thinking about episodes even when we disagree on them. The positivity on Can You Hear Me in particular has me rethinking my own negativity when it was on, I plan to rewatch it soon based off your glowing praise. Best wishes and have a nice day!
This and It Takes You Away are my two favourites - I've always been a fan of these 'different' episodes though - Listen is another firm favourite of mine.
My issue with the scene with Graham was she said she'd come back to it, but she never did. For me it would have worked better if that scene happened earlier in the episode episode and then the Doctor brought it up herself at the end. She didn't live up to her promise of saying something smart later. When you promise a friend you'll do something and never follow through it's not ok.
My main issues with this episode are the Aleppo confrontation being SO rushed (I genuinely rewatched that segment coz I thought I missed like 5-6 minutes of the episode) and the Graham Doc scene, but not for the reasons a lot of other people have. I wish it was an extra 45s or minute longer, maybe pointing out that being there for someone doesn’t mean saying the right thing, or even saying anything. Just listening can be enough. In my personal opinion, it felt like that half of the conversation got left on the cutting room floor, but did get filmed/written with the intent to be in. The flow of the dialogue feels unresolved.
The Graham scene is callout and apathetic not because of what the Doctor says, but because of what she does. She's got a friend with a lot of anxiety oriented around a chronic health problem. She lives inside of a time and space machine that literally gives her access to the most advanced healthcare that ever was or ever will be. In any other era, that scene would lead directly into the next episode being a visit to some Hospital Planet. It also plays into really unpleasant stereotypes that neurodivergent folks w/ issues communicating have to deal with constantly: that because we cannot communicate how we feel easily, verbally or nonverbally, that we don't care at all. Which makes it a singular scene that really embodies the general apathy and lack of care or interest to characters that defined the Chibnall era.
Vera, I have always adored your deep dives into the most interesting parts of Who. For this one I need to watch it again. Will do, though it’s a tough one. Thx as always.
The writer (Charlene James) has confirmed that yes the episode is indeed about mental health - so you are spot on in your analogy - personally I can't see how anyone can Interpret it any different, but having read the reviews of critics that didn't like it - the majority of them don't even acknowledge these issues and themes - proving they didn't get it. I agree that it is by far the series best work, but then it was written by an excellent writer (and I suspect - although not sure - that it was a spec script that was written for something not DW related - and was shoe horned into a DW narrative)
This’s my second favourite episode from this era, the first being *It Takes You Away.* And, wow, I actually remember this episode. LOL? (‘Cause this era was, overall, reeaalllly bland.) My only real complaint about this particular episode is, yeah, it’s too damn short.
I've always seen Graham's reaction to what The Doctor had said as understanding and finding it amusing but also being slightly disappointed. The thing is, we can't always avoid doing that, especially if we're being honest with people. I think a lot of people felt that The Doctor should have followed the conventional script to make him feel better, but I don't think it's The Doctor's way and I don't think it's necessarily the right way. Society can be wrong. Edit: But so can The Doctor. I don't understand why some people expect her to be perfect.
Allegorical Evil Gods feels very Seven-era. Oh, one other problem with the Aleppo part being a little superfluous: historical Aleppo is a great setting! One of the oldest cities in the world! Not London or anywhere in the UK! So I was excited when that was apparently a major setting for the episode, and disappointed that it wasn't really. That and the quick easy resolution were my only issues.
I really like the idea of this episode but for me it didn’t really work. In particular, the issue with the Graham scene for me was that 13 didn’t even give like an empty conciliatory statement or come back around a bit later with something to say if she couldn’t think of something in the moment, so from what we saw it just felt like when he was trying to be open with her she just turned it back on herself
I absolutely love this story too. Not my favourite of the whole era but probably third. Number 1 has to still be Demons of the Punjab. Possibly one of the best historicals ever
Definitely my favourite of S12; such a shame we never got a second effort from Charlene James! My overall favourite of the Chibnall era though is still It Takes You Away, closely following by Witchfinders and Can You Hear Me ❤
@@CouncilofGeeks I think it plays a bit more or a role. He got sick and fell in love with Grace. He got better and his life was better than it had been before because he had her. In his mind she helped him get better. But now he's lost her and he's scared he will get sick again. In his dream it's like he's back at square 1 again
I'm continually fascinated by the - what can only be described as - cultural difference regarding metaphor in storytelling when it comes to the US versus the UK. Us Brits use metaphor, similes and other figures of speech constantly: mad as a box of frogs; raining cats and dogs; even derogatory terms, like calling someone a 'bike', are clearly understood by the majority of us. As such, metaphor and allegory make up a lot of British film, television and literature in a way it simply doesn't in America. From what I've seen, a fair amount of US shows use very plain language, both spoken and visual, that would simply be considered dull writing for a lot of UK viewers. Even in soap operas, a lot of intent is implied, either through context clues or, a lot of the time, metaphor. Not for us such mundane terms as "you're going to die", more "you'll soon be able to rest in peace and quiet, don't you worry about that". As such, I would argue that a lot of the things that dissatisfy you about Doctor Who are traditional British storytelling techniques that complement the viewer's intelligence by saying "you get this, right?" It's also why certain things are left umexplained, or not explicitly explained: we should be able to understand the points being made without them being hammered home.
Interesting points. One of the biggest issues I have with Chibnall's era is that it had too much of the "you're going to die" style of writing for my taste.
"Can you hear me?" follows in my opinion the typical story-structure of a bad chibnall episode. What I mean by that is following: It starts with a great set-up, becomes convoluted at some point and then ends with a rushed and unsatisfying conclusion. Its definetly not the worse chibnall episode, because it has good things going for it, but it does not overcome the typical problems. The best Chibnall Era Episodes are the ones, who don´t feel like they are from his era or that atleast they don´t need to be. The only exception is "Power of the Doctor" which somehow manages to unite everything great about chibnall with everything bad about chibnall into one, working episode. Don´t ask me how.
I honestly kept waiting for Yaz to come out in this episode, especially with the cop, who I totally read as queer herself. They sort of tip-toed around that subject though, left it vague and open to interpretation. I should've known at that point that Chibnall was going to drop the ball when it came to Yaz's queerness -- or at least her deeper feelings on the subject beyond having feelings for the Doctor. We just never get below the surface with Yaz and it's sad and frustrating.
I’m with you on the scene with the Doctor and Graham and always seen it in much the same way as you do. The Doctor may be socially awkward and not too forthcoming with her ‘fam’ but also she is old enough and wise enough to know that trite answers like ‘don’t worry’, ‘it will be fine’ or possibly worst of all ‘pull yourself together’ are not really going to resolve the problem in any way at all, and inferring that they’ll continue to talk is the best response she could give.
For people who disagree with this reading of the Doctor/Graham scene, I'd encourage they read the comments on her other video on the topic that she linked here czcams.com/video/ihSFPFD60z4/video.html I wasn't sure what to think of the scene, but the fact that so many people, some of whom are on the autism spectrum or otherwise just generally struggle socially, were saying how much they related to it and how much it spoke to them I think says a lot. Whittaker's doctor didn't have much in the way of consistent characterisation, but her inability to truly open up juxtaposed with how deeply she cares for her 'fam' was probably the most consistent parts of her character, and it's an arc that carried through with her relationship with Yaz - someone she got the closest to opening up to but still never quite managed, even in their very last scene where Yaz offers that they don't say goodbye. I think this scene fed into this aspect of her character well - and the fact that so many people reacted negatively to it was arrguably part of the point. As one commenter put it: "A gesture form a socially awkward person being misinterpreted? It’s kind of tragically fitting."
Definitely one of my favourites of Whittaker's era. I'm unsure what I'd say my favourite is, but it honestly is a really heartfelt episode with great villains, great character moments and great music and direction too. I love it
I'd argue it's near impossible to discuss this story in isolation without the context of the mental health allegory, since it's so upfront that's what it is all about. In a way the subtext becomes the text.
I really didn't get the metaphor that you did, but as someone who was at the time was, and still is struggling with severe depression and anxiety, the more on the nose references to depression (especially with Ryan's friends) just made me angry because its the kind of shit advice that I have heard far too many times that is impossible to implement when you are at a low. I can bring myself to look past that.
I haven't watched this episode since around when it came out (I can't remember exact circumstances, as I didn't always watch the Chibnall era weekly), but I don't remember having that flowing of a response to this episode. I don't think I hated it, but I also know that it reminded me far too much of Farscape's Maldis, and paled in comparison for me. I won't have much more to say for now, but perhaps I'll rewatch this episode at some point soon though I'm not sure that's very likely. What I remember of the Graham scene is muddied by seeing others' reactions (much as I ignore most) and remembering my memories of it (so to speak), but I feel my opinion fell in a mid-point from yours to the (supposedly more common) other: I thought the Doctor's response was a little off for the character and a (unintentionally so, for her) cold, and I think Graham was a bit hurt by that (that's certainly what I see in his response, even if it's also tinged with understanding that she might've been the wrong person to ask). That moment, to me, also felt like a signal that Graham would not be sticking with the Doctor too much longer, as it seemed to create something of a rift in the personal relationship if not in the "addressing big problems that threaten the universe or other people" part of the relationship.
I was just okay with it when I first saw this episode, but @councilofgeeks has won me over, and I do think the episode is a solid one, albeit with some issues
That scene with Graham always seemed very twelfth doctor for me, I don't think anyone would've had a problem with it had it been Capaldi delivering that's response. Specifically season 9 Capaldi I guess, caring but not knowing how exactly to show it.
12 struggled with his words sometimes, but he showed he cared with his actions. he would’ve found some way to comfort Graham even if he didn’t have the words
@@madison_hailstorm I mean sure, in a way, all I'm saying is he could be a lot more dismissive of Clara than thirteen was here to Graham (maybe not with such a heavy topic but still), I could see him saying that exact line (in his own way, which was generally a lot more rude in his delivery) and we just don't know exactly what happened after this scene, maybe thirteen did find the right words or gesture to confort Graham idk
@@ohwow1626Any time 12 was dismissive of Clara, it was in service to an eventual character arc where he grew and changed and improved as a person / friend, and/or he made it up to her eventually. this is what’s missing with 13. it’s not that I have a fundamental problem with the doctor exhibiting this behavior, I just don’t like coldness or cruelty that isn’t in service of any sort of arc. She’s like this simply because she’s like this. Which, if you’re gonna write the character like that, fine. It’s consistent with how 13 usually is. But I don’t like it. and I don’t think it’s at all like 12.
It has themes, but it doesn't quite get there for me after the first twenty minutes. The Yaz scenes were well-meaning, but still executed poorly. The final scene with Thirteen and Graham ironically enough is the highlight for me, we're all struggling, etc.
I can't remember the episode but there was one episode this season in which the Doctor, while chained up, shook her hip and the sonic flew up to her... Kind of took me out of the episode it was in... I know this episode, the villain kind of reminded me of The Power of Three villain...minus cubes.
Sorry but these entities squandered all menace for me when they simply stood around in the middle of some random street on Earth (because it's ALWAYS Earth) TALKING about all the Bad Stuff they were gonna do. I'm not bothered by their quick defeat. I'm bothered by how utterly boring it was before their defeat; more tell-don't-show writing and utterly small potatoes operating for things that were set up to be god-tier threats.
Even as someone who did a video praising one of the scenes of the episode (czcams.com/video/behCjDnYpPY/video.html) I don't think I can agree with it being the best of the Chibnall era (not that that's saying a whole lot). There's some cool stuff here definitely but structurally it makes a lot of misguided choices. I feel like it's an episode where in terms of basic concepts it's one of the ones I like more but execution wise it disappoints which is a shame cause with some changes this probably could have been the best of S12. Note while watching: Oh I just recalled that Vecna from Stranger Things kind of offered a better execution of a similar idea (sorry haters, tho I was reading some older reviews of the season earlier this week so it's timely). Max's story in that season had a lot more weight than anything in this episode and Vecna just managed to be a more intriguing long term threat. Now, obviously it help that that story is being told over multiple episodes rather than a single episode but that kind of ties into one of my criticisms of Can You Hear Me? since the beginning which that it should have been a two parter (or at the very least they needed to change the structure and cut some stuff out to make it work better as single episode). More notes: So I take issue with some aspects of your metaphorical reading. I'm fine with the part of the gods being mental illness or whatever that part's fine. The issue is when you frame them being contained in the context of keeping things balanced. This suffers because a)the episode doesn't really act like there's a genuinely threat of the gods getting out again now that they're both in the trap b)the people on the two planets were destroyed as a consequence of setting up the trap in the first place and the planets are on a collision course so they're gonna be destroyed eventually (which I uncovered when I was making my video on the topic), so if that trap/the planets are meant to represent a stable person keeping mental health in check it kind of fails since it basically indicates that the only way to do so is to do something self-destructive.
I completely agree that the scene with Graham is completely within character for the 13th doctor. It just makes me hate her even more than I already did, which is why I dislike the scene.
I've always found this episode the most boring of the era. To me, the mental health message falls flat and the overall story is not that engaging, I was surprised to find that you and Mr. Tardis really liked this one.
This episode and The Haunting of Villa Diodati are the only two episodes that left an impression from Season 12. Both really strong in their own ways. I also never understood the hot takes on the Doctor/Graham scene. It works within the context of both of their understood characterisations. As someone with chronic health problems, I think it is a case that some people can't appreciate that is a positive exchange without being a melodramatic and saccharine cliché.
I'm not getting notifications. I've unsubscribed, but do I need to clear a cache or something, so I actually start getting notifications again? Or will unsubbing and subbing be enough?
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: czcams.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/video.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: czcams.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/video.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: czcams.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: czcams.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/video.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: czcams.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/video.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: czcams.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/video.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: czcams.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/video.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: czcams.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/video.html
As someone who has dealt with severe depression throughout my life I’d say I didn’t feel like this episode really captured what it feels like to have depression (I didn’t even realize that’s what it was doing when I first saw it) but I get how it can be powerful with people who have to watch people they care about go through that kind of internal struggle from the outside. We don’t really see much of Ryan’s friend and what he’s feeling but we do get to see the way seeing him suffer affects Ryan and how he feels powerless in helping him. The Yaz scene also doesn’t really give us much insight into Yaz’s interiority and she mostly just sits passively as the cop talks at her, though we do learn about the cop’s feelings as she talks about how she wishes she can impart her wisdom of age to this young woman. Even the Graham scene isn’t really about Graham but about 13’s difficulty in being there for the people she cares about. So yeah I didn’t relate to this episode as reflecting on my experience with depression, but I can see it working as a metaphor for how difficult it can be for people on the outside who want to help more than anything but don’t know how to fight monsters they themselves can’t see. (Which is also what Vincent and the Doctor is)
In terms of episodes that, in my opinion, depict what it feels like to have depression, I would pick Heaven Sent and Amy’s Choice. Heaven Sent shows the inner experience of every single day feeling like a struggle to make even the tiniest bit of progress towards getting better (the triumph of punching the wall feels like the triumph of just getting out of bed most days). In Amy’s Choice the Dream Lord is a great metaphor for that constant voice in your head that hates you so much and wants to hurt you so much that it ends up hurting your friends too.
Also, unrelated but I’ve been saying that Zelan and the other woman should have filled the Ravagers’ roles since flux aired and I’m glad to find I’m not the only one!
Whew, great points, and all well taken and useful. Feeling I like this ep more just for the conversations it can start…
Okay, my brain is really liking this idea of having the two "gods" from this episode as the main villains of Flux. It would mean the Doctor directly influenced the beginning of the Flux in her current incarnation. And perhaps the Renegade Doctor was the one who'd trapped them originally, and that's why it ties back into her and Carvhanista. And a lot of this toying with her would have additional layers. Now I want to rewatch this, then rewatch Flux, and figure out how that could work and fanfic it, because my brain is racing. Vera, you are inspiring!
If you write this fanfic, tell me please
That infamous scene at the end... actually resonated with me. I have legitimately crippling social anxiety, and I am absolutely awfulness that sort of thing. I know it. I have cut myself off from countless friendships because it just felt awful to ask for someone's friendship and support, when I was just flat out unable to support them in turn.
I think it was clumsily handled, as with many thing this era, but seeing even an attempt was surprisingly moving for me.
The backstory with Yaz was so interesting and what I liked most about this episode. But, like most things with Chibnal, it then is never relevant to anything that ever happens to Yaz. In fact, after this episode, they just gave up on Yaz's character development altogether. So rewatching is like "this is interesting, but we all know it goes nowhere".
Yeah, I think you're VERY charitable to the "I'm still socially awkward" scene. The scene is frustrating because having social anxiety doesn't mean you can't be there for your friends when they express deep, dark stuff. She's always going on about how they're her "fam" and the best people she knows, but never opens up to them and she never talks to them. It would be one thing if she said, "I don't know what to say, but I can listen for as long as you like" (I can hear you), but instead she says, "I don't know what to say, so I'm gonna go do over here and pretend to do something else." Nobody who dislikes this scene is misinterpreting it, we don't like what it's doing or how it's being executed. She was just kind of being a bad friend here.
I'm not saying she needs to do a whole speech, but the Doctor has never had a huge problem with talking to companions about their fears and anxieties and trying to make them feel as good as she's able in the moment, but this incarnation of the Doctor is simultaneously incredibly needy and terminally unable to be there for people, but it's never addressed and it's never resolved. It would have been stronger if it was one of the human characters having that reaction to Graham imo.
Yeah, as a social awkward person myself, it almost feels like it's trying to say social awkwardness =/= empathy, which is very untrue in many cases (also something leveled at neurodivergent people, btw -- also me -- which is frustrating).
I think you can be very empathetic, but also socially awkward. You may not know the 'right' thing to say or do for your friend in need, but you can try your best, instead of running/deflecting. Sometimes just listening to someone is all someone needs. Or someone just being there. If you're flailing, why not just ask 'What can I do to help you right now?' or something?
This instead feels like the Doctor just doesn't 'have time' for Graham's concerns. And that hurts.
But I guess YMMV.
Chris Chibnall has said that in his experience (he had cancer when he was 22) people were generally unsure what to say to him. In essence, he's writing from his own experience. That said, he also mentioned that he did write a more emphatic response, but he just thought it sounded hollow; which is fair enough, I'd have thought.
Can I give my opinion as an autistic person? This scene was beautiful and empathetic, both to Graham *and* to the Doctor. It doesn't matter whether the Doctor is autistic or not (one can't really diagnose an alien with anything so human), but I and a lot of other autistic people see ourselves in this character, in ways that differ from incarnation to incarnation.
Vera's absolutely right with her interpretation and explanation, but my extra point is that this incarnation of the Doctor struggles to know how to comfort a friend (a common thing for autistic people, and something which can often lead to the distressing assumption that we don't care just because we don't know how to externalise that care as well as others, especially on the spot). The show doesn't punish her for this, nor does it make the assumption some people in the replies are making that it's due to a lack of empathy, it just allows her the grace to be unsure of how to react, to outline this fact and to let her friend know that she will respond properly when she's thought of what to say.
I've had similar interactions with (also autistic) friends before, where someone might not know how to help and will express that, and it's great because communication and understanding have prevailed, which is far better than just saying the wrong thing.
Anyway, sorry for all the words, but people interpreting this scene as the Doctor being a bad friend hits a really personal note, and I know a lot of autistic people who feel the same. Please think about how different neurotypes process the world and struggle to communicate in the same ways you do.
@@KatzePiano No need to ask to give your opinion or apologize for all the words! 🙂 My comment wasn't exactly pithy either lol
I do sympathize with this reading, and I understand what you mean. Again, I'm not misinterpreting the scene, I get what Chibnall is trying to do, I've read the interview and the statement, I've watched the video essays, but one of my problems is that this is very out of character for /the Doctor/ specifically. She's a millennium's old alien; there's no reason she'd have nothing to say to Graham. Maybe it's a taste thing, but I'd rather her muster up SOMETHING even if it's imperfect.
Also, I can't deny that I do find it weird that it's the first female Doctor who never has anything comforting to say, struggles to express empathy, and is socially awkward. I mean, Capaldi had the same issue with the damn cue card scene in "Before the Flood", which I didn't really like either. If in every other episode 13 was kind and compassionate and confident, and then "Can You Hear Me?" was this sort of thing where maybe something was too personal to respond to in the moment, but she still reassured him that they'd continue the conversation later, I could understand that, but this incarnation of the Doctor has kind of just BEEN dismissive and unkind and self-conscious for her entire run up to this point, so this doesn't land as well as it could have. Maybe even make it clear that she's better with life or death situations because they're big and external and easier to solve.
Or my other idea: Give a human character this scene to respond to Graham. Maybe write an actual autistic companion for the TARDIS crew. I doubt that would have received this backlash, because it's an original character and we the audience have gotten to know them by now. I think having an actual character always trumps coding, so that's also my own personal gripe, I suppose.
This scene always felt like a really shoehorned rewrite of who the Doctor is at a core level, for a scene that just falls flat (for most people). Now it's MY turn to apologize for all the words lol. I'm not responding with any malice, I promise you. I've got my own little quirks of neurodivergence. Chibnall's intentions were good, they usually are, but this scene just falls flat in the execution, regardless of intention.
In my case I like what it's doing, just not so much how it's being executed, because I don't believe it was the intention to come across like she's being dismissive or brushing him off, though I can understand why some people are interpreting it that way. It's more about how sometimes it's hard to know what you can say to comfort someone when it comes to mental health. There's not an easy fix that will make everything okay, so sometimes it's better to say nothing. But yeah, could have been executed a hell of a lot better
I've seen a couple of comments that seemed to boil down to, "There's been lots of times the Doctor has been awkward/outright callous with their companions." But there is also the ending to "Vincent and the Doctor." When Amy is breaking down because she thinks that all that they did for Vincent was for nothing, the Doctor at least tried to show her it wasn't. And in an episode that is meant to highlight being honest with your mental health and supporting those in your life that are struggling, it just struck a weird chord with me to see Graham open up to the Doctor about his struggles, only for the Doctor's own issues to prevent her from offering anything except a response that to me sounded like, "Can I put you on hold? And we can talk about it later when I know what to say?"
Maybe the scene would have worked better for me if it went like this:
*Graham reveals his fears about his cancer returning and the Doctor is shocked.*
13: I... Graham, I'm... I'm so sorry. I wish I knew what to say. I used to always know what to say, what to do. And now... I...
Graham: Then don't say anything. Just be here with me. For a little while. Would ya, doc?
*The Doctor brightens up a little and switches off the panel she was working on. She walks over to Graham and leans next to him on the console.*
13: Be here. Yeah. I can do 'be here'. Did an A-level in being here once.
Graham: (smiling) Thanks, doc.
We would still get 13 being awkward, but her insecurity doesn't push her away from Graham. And the scene would show that when wanting to help a friend with mental illness, what they really need from you isn't a grand speech or waving a magic wand to make everything better. They just need to know you are with them and they are not alone.
If you like the villains in this, you might like the Classic story "Enlightenment" (although it does need a bit of context and is a 5th Doctor story, and I know he's your least favourite)
Seconded, "Enlightenment" is awesome! One of my favourites
Lynda Barron knocks it out the park as the Captain.
I have never understood why everyone hated that scene between the Doctor and Graham so much, it was actually super relatable for me! I'm autistic and British so I am absolutely rubbish with people who are upset, I just don't know what to say or do to comfort people, even if my heart is breaking for them, so I end up just being awkwardly silent as my brain gets nothing but an error message and screen of death.
This episode felt like it was written by someone who's only ever seen people who struggle with depression and anxiety and Nuerodivergance rather than experiencing it themselves. And instead of getting to know people's experiences, he just looked up the symptoms in the DSM5
I would say it comes across as being about what it's like to see others with mental illness and how you deal with it.
I appreciated it helped give Yaz some character development. Previously in The Woman Who Fell To Earth she just seemed to be a police officer so she could be introduced to Ryan. Here we learn she became a police officer because another police officer was kind to her once when she was upset and tried to run away. Graham has nightmares about an alternative timeline of meeting Grace. In The Woman Who Fell To Earth He mentions they met because she was his nurse when he got cancer and after he recovered they got married. Ryan tries to help his friend and gets chips to convince his friend to un-bolt the door. I liked the animations when explaining how the gods tried to create wars before being outwitted and trapped. I kind of wish this had been written into The Power of The Doctor than just two strange planets with laser beams and the master talking to a camera. Flux was limited by the pandemic but yes I guess with some re-writes it might have worked if they were involved.
This is a strong favourite of this series for me too. Being someone who loves the abstract and downright weird like yourself, this episode just clicks for me as other episodes that deal with negative emotions like Vincent and the Doctor and Heavent Sent. That scene with Graham and the Doctor is relatable to me. It's good for people to come out with their problems, but for the receiver of that information, it can be overwhelming. For myself, I just clamp up like the Doctor, then have to take an awkward step back and say that I needed time to process that information and say, 'Okay. I understand the trouble you're having. I just need to take a step back and get back to you and say something encouraging.' I am lucky to have friends who understand that I need time (being autistic) to process what my brain has to process and then my mouth to say something comforting. I agree it could have been handled better in the episode, but for me, that scene, in particular, is relatable for me. This episode just gets me in a way
In regards to the Graham/Doctor scene, I totally agree and have always been perplexed by the criticism it received. Your read on it is exactly mine. The Doctor was caring for Graham in that moment, just not in the way people wanted or expected her to. I feel as though it may have something to do with it pushing back against the fantasy a lot of people project onto the Doctor as this quirky, funny alien who's function is to deliver trite, empowering monologues when a character has the Big Sad, and when this fantasy is contravened it can cause a lot of upset and anger.
Sometimes it's okay to not know how to help somebody in the moment. Graham and the Doctor have perfectly normal - and healthy - interaction, and I'm glad to have seen the Doctor act in a way that's so relatable to me as an autistic person who struggles with communicating with others when it comes to deeply intimate and personal matters. For a character who is so heavily neurodivergent-coded, you'd think people would understand when the Doctor shows a different side to their neurodiversity, but it seems that they only like it when the Doctor aligns with the "eccentric savant" trope.
The problem with the speech in my opinion, is the doctor can be socially awkward, but should know how to reassure a companion, it’s fundamental thing of the DOCTOR. Jodie’s doctor, it fits her character ig but the doctor should know what to say
Is it fundamental though? Have you seen the 5th Doctor? Because he suuuuuuuuuuuuucked at it.
@@CouncilofGeeks I think it is, the doctor always helps the companion and knows how to help them, I have not watched a lot of Peter Davidson to be honest but fair enough if he does, it's a trait I think the doctor should have
I feel the same way about this that I do most of the Chibnall era: I find it mostly forgettable. So often you'd have to explain to me what it was about before I'd remember. I can't remember them based on titles alone, which has never been the case in the history of the show. I couldn't even remember what this was about until you started showing the clips. When Chibnall's era is most memorable is when he does something that really annoys me.
How you feel is how I feel about the Moffat-Smith era. I just can't remember shit from that era for the life of me. I can remember every Chibnall episode pretty well actually. Helps that I like most of them (though I think it never could quite reach heights that previous eras were able to reach).
Just to say, really enjoying the Doctor Who reviews on this channel. Got me thinking about episodes even when we disagree on them. The positivity on Can You Hear Me in particular has me rethinking my own negativity when it was on, I plan to rewatch it soon based off your glowing praise. Best wishes and have a nice day!
This and It Takes You Away are my two favourites - I've always been a fan of these 'different' episodes though - Listen is another firm favourite of mine.
My issue with the scene with Graham was she said she'd come back to it, but she never did. For me it would have worked better if that scene happened earlier in the episode episode and then the Doctor brought it up herself at the end. She didn't live up to her promise of saying something smart later. When you promise a friend you'll do something and never follow through it's not ok.
My main issues with this episode are the Aleppo confrontation being SO rushed (I genuinely rewatched that segment coz I thought I missed like 5-6 minutes of the episode) and the Graham Doc scene, but not for the reasons a lot of other people have. I wish it was an extra 45s or minute longer, maybe pointing out that being there for someone doesn’t mean saying the right thing, or even saying anything. Just listening can be enough. In my personal opinion, it felt like that half of the conversation got left on the cutting room floor, but did get filmed/written with the intent to be in. The flow of the dialogue feels unresolved.
The Graham scene is callout and apathetic not because of what the Doctor says, but because of what she does. She's got a friend with a lot of anxiety oriented around a chronic health problem. She lives inside of a time and space machine that literally gives her access to the most advanced healthcare that ever was or ever will be. In any other era, that scene would lead directly into the next episode being a visit to some Hospital Planet.
It also plays into really unpleasant stereotypes that neurodivergent folks w/ issues communicating have to deal with constantly: that because we cannot communicate how we feel easily, verbally or nonverbally, that we don't care at all.
Which makes it a singular scene that really embodies the general apathy and lack of care or interest to characters that defined the Chibnall era.
Vera, I have always adored your deep dives into the most interesting parts of Who. For this one I need to watch it again. Will do, though it’s a tough one. Thx as always.
The writer (Charlene James) has confirmed that yes the episode is indeed about mental health - so you are spot on in your analogy - personally I can't see how anyone can Interpret it any different, but having read the reviews of critics that didn't like it - the majority of them don't even acknowledge these issues and themes - proving they didn't get it. I agree that it is by far the series best work, but then it was written by an excellent writer (and I suspect - although not sure - that it was a spec script that was written for something not DW related - and was shoe horned into a DW narrative)
It took the era until the fam's last regular story to actually give them some proper focus, but they got there in the end.
This’s my second favourite episode from this era, the first being *It Takes You Away.*
And, wow, I actually remember this episode. LOL? (‘Cause this era was, overall, reeaalllly bland.)
My only real complaint about this particular episode is, yeah, it’s too damn short.
"The name's Bland. Robin Bland."
I've always seen Graham's reaction to what The Doctor had said as understanding and finding it amusing but also being slightly disappointed. The thing is, we can't always avoid doing that, especially if we're being honest with people.
I think a lot of people felt that The Doctor should have followed the conventional script to make him feel better, but I don't think it's The Doctor's way and I don't think it's necessarily the right way. Society can be wrong.
Edit: But so can The Doctor. I don't understand why some people expect her to be perfect.
I haven't rewatched Chibnall era enough to decide what's my favourite, but also liked this more than most at the time.
Allegorical Evil Gods feels very Seven-era.
Oh, one other problem with the Aleppo part being a little superfluous: historical Aleppo is a great setting! One of the oldest cities in the world! Not London or anywhere in the UK! So I was excited when that was apparently a major setting for the episode, and disappointed that it wasn't really. That and the quick easy resolution were my only issues.
I never watched his take two reviews of the 12th doctor era because I have seen them once and once was enough.
@@booradley8895 Her, I believe. But yeah Chibnall era was mid at best.
@@wheresmyjetpack Capaldi's era was not very good at all and I did not like Clara either.
I really like the idea of this episode but for me it didn’t really work. In particular, the issue with the Graham scene for me was that 13 didn’t even give like an empty conciliatory statement or come back around a bit later with something to say if she couldn’t think of something in the moment, so from what we saw it just felt like when he was trying to be open with her she just turned it back on herself
This episode is less than the sum of its parts: it's got several good ideas, but they don't get enough time to really become something.
Really like this episode... except the end. A rewatch didn't bring me round.
I absolutely love this story too. Not my favourite of the whole era but probably third. Number 1 has to still be Demons of the Punjab. Possibly one of the best historicals ever
Definitely my favourite of S12; such a shame we never got a second effort from Charlene James!
My overall favourite of the Chibnall era though is still It Takes You Away, closely following by Witchfinders and Can You Hear Me ❤
The biggest mistake the episode made was not having these villains escape for future episodes.
Graham's wife died and he's traveling throught time and space to avoid dealing with his grief
Yes but that's not how the episode frames his anxiety, though it's doubtless a factor.
@@CouncilofGeeks I think it plays a bit more or a role. He got sick and fell in love with Grace. He got better and his life was better than it had been before because he had her. In his mind she helped him get better. But now he's lost her and he's scared he will get sick again. In his dream it's like he's back at square 1 again
Entirely agree on the Graham scene. I was smiling on broadcast. Really lovely moment, I really connected to it.
I'm continually fascinated by the - what can only be described as - cultural difference regarding metaphor in storytelling when it comes to the US versus the UK. Us Brits use metaphor, similes and other figures of speech constantly: mad as a box of frogs; raining cats and dogs; even derogatory terms, like calling someone a 'bike', are clearly understood by the majority of us. As such, metaphor and allegory make up a lot of British film, television and literature in a way it simply doesn't in America. From what I've seen, a fair amount of US shows use very plain language, both spoken and visual, that would simply be considered dull writing for a lot of UK viewers. Even in soap operas, a lot of intent is implied, either through context clues or, a lot of the time, metaphor. Not for us such mundane terms as "you're going to die", more "you'll soon be able to rest in peace and quiet, don't you worry about that". As such, I would argue that a lot of the things that dissatisfy you about Doctor Who are traditional British storytelling techniques that complement the viewer's intelligence by saying "you get this, right?" It's also why certain things are left umexplained, or not explicitly explained: we should be able to understand the points being made without them being hammered home.
Interesting points. One of the biggest issues I have with Chibnall's era is that it had too much of the "you're going to die" style of writing for my taste.
Loved it then, love it still. Was a smidge short for the scope of what they were trying. So... what you said.
"Can you hear me?" follows in my opinion the typical story-structure of a bad chibnall episode. What I mean by that is following: It starts with a great set-up, becomes convoluted at some point and then ends with a rushed and unsatisfying conclusion. Its definetly not the worse chibnall episode, because it has good things going for it, but it does not overcome the typical problems. The best Chibnall Era Episodes are the ones, who don´t feel like they are from his era or that atleast they don´t need to be. The only exception is "Power of the Doctor" which somehow manages to unite everything great about chibnall with everything bad about chibnall into one, working episode. Don´t ask me how.
I honestly kept waiting for Yaz to come out in this episode, especially with the cop, who I totally read as queer herself. They sort of tip-toed around that subject though, left it vague and open to interpretation.
I should've known at that point that Chibnall was going to drop the ball when it came to Yaz's queerness -- or at least her deeper feelings on the subject beyond having feelings for the Doctor. We just never get below the surface with Yaz and it's sad and frustrating.
I hope Yaz gets more chances to shine in some Big Finish stories.
I’m with you on the scene with the Doctor and Graham and always seen it in much the same way as you do. The Doctor may be socially awkward and not too forthcoming with her ‘fam’ but also she is old enough and wise enough to know that trite answers like ‘don’t worry’, ‘it will be fine’ or possibly worst of all ‘pull yourself together’ are not really going to resolve the problem in any way at all, and inferring that they’ll continue to talk is the best response she could give.
For people who disagree with this reading of the Doctor/Graham scene, I'd encourage they read the comments on her other video on the topic that she linked here
czcams.com/video/ihSFPFD60z4/video.html
I wasn't sure what to think of the scene, but the fact that so many people, some of whom are on the autism spectrum or otherwise just generally struggle socially, were saying how much they related to it and how much it spoke to them I think says a lot.
Whittaker's doctor didn't have much in the way of consistent characterisation, but her inability to truly open up juxtaposed with how deeply she cares for her 'fam' was probably the most consistent parts of her character, and it's an arc that carried through with her relationship with Yaz - someone she got the closest to opening up to but still never quite managed, even in their very last scene where Yaz offers that they don't say goodbye. I think this scene fed into this aspect of her character well - and the fact that so many people reacted negatively to it was arrguably part of the point. As one commenter put it: "A gesture form a socially awkward person being misinterpreted? It’s kind of tragically fitting."
Definitely one of my favourites of Whittaker's era. I'm unsure what I'd say my favourite is, but it honestly is a really heartfelt episode with great villains, great character moments and great music and direction too. I love it
Why couldn't The Doctor take Graham to the year 5 billion to get cured?
Because it’s not necessary. His cancer hasn’t actually come back. He’s just got anxiety that it will.
@@CouncilofGeeks Fair point.
Yeah I saw depression and stress(or anxiety) as these 2 gods in this episode.
I'd argue it's near impossible to discuss this story in isolation without the context of the mental health allegory, since it's so upfront that's what it is all about. In a way the subtext becomes the text.
I really didn't get the metaphor that you did, but as someone who was at the time was, and still is struggling with severe depression and anxiety, the more on the nose references to depression (especially with Ryan's friends) just made me angry because its the kind of shit advice that I have heard far too many times that is impossible to implement when you are at a low.
I can bring myself to look past that.
I haven't watched this episode since around when it came out (I can't remember exact circumstances, as I didn't always watch the Chibnall era weekly), but I don't remember having that flowing of a response to this episode. I don't think I hated it, but I also know that it reminded me far too much of Farscape's Maldis, and paled in comparison for me. I won't have much more to say for now, but perhaps I'll rewatch this episode at some point soon though I'm not sure that's very likely.
What I remember of the Graham scene is muddied by seeing others' reactions (much as I ignore most) and remembering my memories of it (so to speak), but I feel my opinion fell in a mid-point from yours to the (supposedly more common) other: I thought the Doctor's response was a little off for the character and a (unintentionally so, for her) cold, and I think Graham was a bit hurt by that (that's certainly what I see in his response, even if it's also tinged with understanding that she might've been the wrong person to ask). That moment, to me, also felt like a signal that Graham would not be sticking with the Doctor too much longer, as it seemed to create something of a rift in the personal relationship if not in the "addressing big problems that threaten the universe or other people" part of the relationship.
I was just okay with it when I first saw this episode, but @councilofgeeks has won me over, and I do think the episode is a solid one, albeit with some issues
That scene with Graham always seemed very twelfth doctor for me, I don't think anyone would've had a problem with it had it been Capaldi delivering that's response. Specifically season 9 Capaldi I guess, caring but not knowing how exactly to show it.
12 struggled with his words sometimes, but he showed he cared with his actions. he would’ve found some way to comfort Graham even if he didn’t have the words
@@madison_hailstorm I mean sure, in a way, all I'm saying is he could be a lot more dismissive of Clara than thirteen was here to Graham (maybe not with such a heavy topic but still), I could see him saying that exact line (in his own way, which was generally a lot more rude in his delivery) and we just don't know exactly what happened after this scene, maybe thirteen did find the right words or gesture to confort Graham idk
@@ohwow1626Any time 12 was dismissive of Clara, it was in service to an eventual character arc where he grew and changed and improved as a person / friend, and/or he made it up to her eventually. this is what’s missing with 13. it’s not that I have a fundamental problem with the doctor exhibiting this behavior, I just don’t like coldness or cruelty that isn’t in service of any sort of arc. She’s like this simply because she’s like this. Which, if you’re gonna write the character like that, fine. It’s consistent with how 13 usually is. But I don’t like it. and I don’t think it’s at all like 12.
I don't think any of the doctors care much otherwise they would not put their companions in danger all the time.
It has themes, but it doesn't quite get there for me after the first twenty minutes. The Yaz scenes were well-meaning, but still executed poorly. The final scene with Thirteen and Graham ironically enough is the highlight for me, we're all struggling, etc.
I can't remember the episode but there was one episode this season in which the Doctor, while chained up, shook her hip and the sonic flew up to her... Kind of took me out of the episode it was in...
I know this episode, the villain kind of reminded me of The Power of Three villain...minus cubes.
The "magic flying sonic" moment happens in this episode. I've seen it a few times now, and it still looks weird :)
I really enjoyed this episode and was my favourite episode of the Chibnall era... Until Power of the Doctor which I loved, so is now my number 2.
Sorry but these entities squandered all menace for me when they simply stood around in the middle of some random street on Earth (because it's ALWAYS Earth) TALKING about all the Bad Stuff they were gonna do. I'm not bothered by their quick defeat. I'm bothered by how utterly boring it was before their defeat; more tell-don't-show writing and utterly small potatoes operating for things that were set up to be god-tier threats.
I clearly wasn't paying close enough attention to season 12, because I don't remember anything about this episode or the previous one. 🤨
Even as someone who did a video praising one of the scenes of the episode (czcams.com/video/behCjDnYpPY/video.html) I don't think I can agree with it being the best of the Chibnall era (not that that's saying a whole lot). There's some cool stuff here definitely but structurally it makes a lot of misguided choices. I feel like it's an episode where in terms of basic concepts it's one of the ones I like more but execution wise it disappoints which is a shame cause with some changes this probably could have been the best of S12.
Note while watching: Oh I just recalled that Vecna from Stranger Things kind of offered a better execution of a similar idea (sorry haters, tho I was reading some older reviews of the season earlier this week so it's timely). Max's story in that season had a lot more weight than anything in this episode and Vecna just managed to be a more intriguing long term threat. Now, obviously it help that that story is being told over multiple episodes rather than a single episode but that kind of ties into one of my criticisms of Can You Hear Me? since the beginning which that it should have been a two parter (or at the very least they needed to change the structure and cut some stuff out to make it work better as single episode).
More notes: So I take issue with some aspects of your metaphorical reading. I'm fine with the part of the gods being mental illness or whatever that part's fine. The issue is when you frame them being contained in the context of keeping things balanced. This suffers because a)the episode doesn't really act like there's a genuinely threat of the gods getting out again now that they're both in the trap b)the people on the two planets were destroyed as a consequence of setting up the trap in the first place and the planets are on a collision course so they're gonna be destroyed eventually (which I uncovered when I was making my video on the topic), so if that trap/the planets are meant to represent a stable person keeping mental health in check it kind of fails since it basically indicates that the only way to do so is to do something self-destructive.
I completely agree that the scene with Graham is completely within character for the 13th doctor. It just makes me hate her even more than I already did, which is why I dislike the scene.
it's not my favourite but probably in my top 5 of the era
I seriously think they would have been better focusing on the socially awkward aspects of the Thirteenth Doctor like in this episode.
I've always found this episode the most boring of the era. To me, the mental health message falls flat and the overall story is not that engaging, I was surprised to find that you and Mr. Tardis really liked this one.
This episode and The Haunting of Villa Diodati are the only two episodes that left an impression from Season 12. Both really strong in their own ways. I also never understood the hot takes on the Doctor/Graham scene. It works within the context of both of their understood characterisations. As someone with chronic health problems, I think it is a case that some people can't appreciate that is a positive exchange without being a melodramatic and saccharine cliché.
I'm not getting notifications. I've unsubscribed, but do I need to clear a cache or something, so I actually start getting notifications again? Or will unsubbing and subbing be enough?
I honestly don't know.
@@CouncilofGeeks CZcams makes no damned sense