Porsche "M97" IMS Bearing - Good or Bad? | Porsche 996, 986, 997, 987
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2021
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Amazing how this little bearing brought reliability concerns for over 175,000 996’s and greatly effected their resale price.
In 2015 and 2 months after i bought my 2005 carerra S, i did install the IMS solution, been trouble free and have operated flawlessy. Note: the original ims bearing was in mint condition, car had passed 65000 miles
I am looking at a 2005 Porsche and this was the best explanation I have seen. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Sir, very informative and well explained. I appreciate the passion and the breakdown in years and circumstances. All the best! '07CS.
Glad it was helpful!
Great informative video...Thank you!
Wow, how simple! Thank you Sir!
Have a 2005 Boxster with the larger M97 bearing, confirmed when clutch was changed. It’s a later 2005 model with a 2006 chassis. Not going to worry about it, trouble free so far after owning for 4 years doing 8000 miles a year.
Beside that all ok ? Any bore scoring issue?
Zero, the base 2.7 has cast pistons which dont interfere with the bores. The 3.2 is the same, 3.4 onwards have the forged pistons. 3.4 is the safest of the trilogy (3.4, 3.6, 3.8) as less heat.
3.4 is ok if you: Change oil often, install low temp thermostat, run premium fuel, use injector cleaner, don’t idle when cold and dont rev high until full warm
@@spyder_man I see I am quite tempted for the 2.7 in Malaysia here
Very safe bet the base 2.7, 2006 chassis cars will most likely have the larger IMS bearing. Chassis number has 06 in it.
I have a 2008 RS60 Spyder now with the 3.4, and on reflection the base is just as much fun, you can exploit it more. I would have another one, and look for one with a high options list.
Hi jake, had a 6305 ims failure end of 2019 on a 2,7 tiptronic boxster on 120,000KM. Full service history very well looked after car. havent got time to submit a ticket but let me know if you want further details. But only one i have ever seen.
Had a 00 Boxster that gave up the ghost due to ims bearing failure. Wish I’d known about this issue before purchasing. The car had just over 50 thousand miles. This was several years ago btw.
Excellent video 😄 your knowledge is truly outstanding 👍
Glad you think so!
You sir, are by far, the most informative person on this subject that I've seen online anywhere. I'm looking at a 2002 Porsche 911 4 cabriolet. The service record says that the RMS, clutch, flywheel, and other items were upgraded/replaced. I couldn't believe they didn't do the IMS so I called the service center in another state and they said the mechanic was standing there with an LN bearing ready to install it but noticed that the larger bearing was already there. They stated that it was an aftermarket bearing? I wasn't aware there were non OEM large after market bearings. They told me they think it was a roller bearing and said it looked great and left it since tearing the engine apart would probably cost a bunch. They also said the last shop purposely left a gasket out so the bearing would get lubricated.....Any thoughts on any of this would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.....btw, if it all goes well, I would upgrade to the IMS Solution. Great idea
Guess you ain't getting a reply.
Haha I love this - they don’t get the emails like we do. I did sell my m97 for the 9a1 tho
Well Done. Thank you for this.
Glad it was helpful, Dan!
I am the previous owner of both an 1999 Carrera and a 2007 Carrera S. Never had a problem with either thank God. I was blissfully unaware of the IMS issue when I purchased my 99 Carrera but very aware with my 07 Carrera S. I kind of wish I still had that 07 but was scared off with the possibility of the even more robust bearing failing. I currently have a 2016 GT4 and again the engine has been completely reliable. I do all my own normal maintenance because I enjoy it. For some reason I am addicted to learning about these engines even though I know I will never again own an M96 or 97. I think I've watched all your videos. You do a great job in explaining the problem and solutions. I've applied much of what I have learned from your videos to how I maintain my Porsches. Well done and thanks.
The great concern I'd have with an S model 07 Carrera, is cylinder bore scoring, not the IMS bearing. Greg, you need to come to the webinar that we have planned for Sep 16th. In on monitoring the health of the engine of a Porsche. Would love to have you there! Here is the link to register: us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_3vv7WeA0RSK7EabyhEynXw
Thanks, a very useful explanation
Glad it was helpful!
This is very informative, Jake. I've been educating myself on this topic among the other issues associated with the M97 since a family member is selling me his '07 C2S. While searching for additional info on the IMS bearing issue, I stumbled upon a BAT article and noticed this comment by "jr_racing" on 9/25/20 at 5:26 AM:
"I have been building Porsche engines and racing them for over 40 years. The IMS bearing is a wear item that should be replaced approximately every 100k miles. The job isn’t particularly complicated but people should be wary of any shop that is charging over $2500 total for the replacement (including parts & labor). That indicates that they’re either overcharging you for the part or they’re not very experienced with the work. The “fancy” solutions are just as prone to failure as any others. We have had a few cars with The IMS Solution installed that have been found to have serious fretting issues on inspection. It’s a sad day for the owner when their $2000 “permanent” part gets swapped out for a more reliable roller bearing.
Don’t forget to drive and enjoy, folks."
I can forward you the link if you like, CZcams deletes comments with links leaving the site. Since I am planning on getting the IMS Solution once I have the car and upon replacement of the clutch, can you please address this claim by this user? Thanks!
The oil fed plain bearing that supports both ends of the intermediate shaft has been a proven durable design that Porsche used dating back to the 356 Carrera. Why they moved to a cheap ball bearing on the M96 Carrera and Boxster engines is ludicrous. It was a definitely a sacrifice to move to ball bearing to support one end of the IMS and cost them greatly with the class action lawsuit and countless engine replacements under warranty. Ironically, they continued use the oil fed plain bearings on the Mezger GT3 and GT2 engines. It took more than 10 years in R&D to bring the patented IMS Solution to the market and we believe it's the best "solution" for the IMS bearing problem. Therefore, the choice is yours which bearing you go with. We've already addressed the allegations this shop made regarding the LN Engineering IMS Solution on Rennlist 2 years ago.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe Thanks for the response, Jake. I couldn't find the thread on RL, but I did find one where an owner asked about any failures on the IMS Solution (posted sometime in 2015). What I inferred is that maybe this shop is not a certified installer and did not do the pre-qualification requirements to install the IMS Solution? Is that correct?
Hi. This is not Jake. Unfortunately, Jake Raby doesn't have time to monitor and respond to comments on CZcams. I've passed along your message to him, but you're welcome to submit a support ticket at the FSI website if you need more information. You said you had a 2007 Carrera S, correct? Then IMS failure is not your big concern, it's cylinder bore scoring which plaques the S model 997 Carrera M97 engines. The IMS bearing, the 6305 that's on your car is very robust and we recommend living it alone unless you need to rebuild the engine and at that point we strongly recommend the IMS Solution from LN Engineering. I wish you all the best in your decision.
Top man Jake!
Great knowledge and summary. Would you say there are any differences with the 3.8l S variant of the M97
Differences in regards to what? Not sure I follow you, but thank you for watching. Hope you'll consider becoming a member of Rennvision.
Hi Jake
I have the larger 997 bearing in my 996, 3.9L. Should l pull off the grease seal at one side where it's accessible?
Yes, that is what we recommend.
I bought my 08 Cayman sport with only 6000 miles on it I drove it home through it up on the hoist and remove the outer seal . Thank you for confirming my train of thought.PS I change the oil like crazy and sleep good at night😁
Thanks for video. Would you say all 2005 carrera S 3.8L with M97 engine therefore have the larger 6305 bearing?
All cars built after August 2005 sold as 2006 have the larger bearing.
Newer to the Porsche game just started doing some research as thinking about purchasing a 2002 996 turbo. Did the Porsche 996 GT3 cup car run the same problematic bearing setup or did they have a completely different block engine bearing design?
The GT3 mezger cars use a plain bearing to support both ends of the intermediate shaft.
Wow this is the best ims failure I ever saw
Hi again, I just bought 7 months ago, a 2006 Cayman 14,000 miles. Should I remove the bearing seal, like it is suggested on some U tube videos? Thanks
Thank you, So I take it that a 2008 2.7 l. Cayman has the big bearing. Also a 1995 993 3.6 l. engine does not have this bearing issue at all.. Correct???
That is correct, the 993 does not suffer from cylinder bore scoring like the non-mezger M9X engines.
Hi guys
I owe a cayman 2009 2.9.
I want to start using it on a track this season.
Does bore scoring occur on low-displacement MA1 engines? How does cayman withstand track-abuse?
Thanks in advance.
We have chosen not to release specific findings on the different 9A1 engines at the moment. We are seeing scoring on 9A1 and have completed one video showing the results.
now an i right by stating the only way to use ims solution the old bearing must be in perfect condition because of oil contamination ? it’s like 2000 bucks plus labor for your fix if the motor is perfect correct?
Hi Paul, Jake responds to this question in this video. czcams.com/video/y342KBpR4K8/video.html
Dear , how can I inspect which bearing I have with an Endoscope you are showing. I have an registered 07/2005 997 Carrera 3.6L.
Check the built date and if it's late 2005 like November then you are safe because you have a 2006 car..
My car is a 99 tiptronic. Thought I did my homework and determined that it had the dual row IMS. No 'AT' in the serial number of the engine. Did discover that the engine was not original to the car and was replaced in Japan some years ago, but no other info could be found. The serial number corrsponded to a 99 C2, so seemed like the car had a used engine put in it. So I bought the IMS solution to replace the dual row. Got a call from the shop saying I had the larger non removable bearing ... now I have a beautiful IMS Solution I can't put in my car ... yay ... So that is my story.
Didn't see anything in the video (or I missed it) but isn't the cover to the large bearing supposed to be removed? I seem to read that everywhere, so I had the shop do that to mine.
Yes, we recommend pulling the outer seal of the 6305.
What of outer seal removal on 6204 bearing?
We strongly recommend replacing the original factory 6204 with retrofit product from LN Engineering.
Thank you for the reply, but what of that replacement bearing, can it be ran without seals and last as well as a sealed bearing?
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe Should you then also replace the IMS flange seals and o-ring on the center stud?
Is there a newer style "replacement engine" for the '07 3.8l c4s?
Do you mean a newer engine for the 997.1 from the factory? If so, no, the factory reman would be another M97.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe Looking at a low mileage(less than 30k on the clock) '07 997.1 and worried about the cylinder issues.
Just picked up a 04 c2 do I need to worry about my ims? 68k miles
Yes if it’s the original 6204 single row.
Hi, I Have 911s year 2006 with 190000 km and Porsche Cayman S year 2008 with 170000 km. How can i know what ims i have and am i in safe mode?
Every Porsche 997 from 2006-08 will have the 6305 bearing. It’s the 05 997 that you have worry about.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe Thanks, I have another question if you can help me, you recommend in your videos to change oil every six months, which oil from your experience is most recommended for Porsche in a hot country like Israel and do you recommend an original oil filter or have an after market (if so from which company do you recommend ?)
Hi, you want an 5W40 oil with a good anti-wear additive package that is high in ZDDP and moly. Avoid 0W40 which a hot climate to avoid shearing. Stick with OEM genuine Porsche filters unless you move to LN Engineering's spin-on oil filter system.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe 06 997 3.6. is 6305?
I just wish I had seen this video earlier. Now looking at a 20+K of engine rebuild on a 2005 Boxster S. Not sure if Porsche takes any responsibility of this catastrophe
I believe they paid out on a class action lawsuit years ago, so no chance of much help from there.
@@sureshot8399 Yep ended up rebuilding mine, Porsche lawsuit ended in 2015, so there was zero help from them. It was even sadder that when I bought my car in 2013, I took it to a Porsche dealership for a PPI, and asked them should U be concerned about IMS and the Service manager replied that since my car had more than 30K miles, it should not be an issue, it only happens for mower mileage. What crap as mine broke at 70K. The didn't even mention the lawsuit
@@steelydan133 That's very unlucky. I replaced mine as a preventative measure when replacing the clutch. I keep the old bearing on my desk now but I think I dodged a bullet as, although it rotates smoothly, the seal weeps oil and I think it is the bearing seal failure that causes the heat buildup in the bearing that leads to failure. The RMS was also replaced which means I only have bore scoring and cylinder head issues to worry about! I hear it is an expensive rebuild so a real shame that Porsche didn't do the right thing.
@@sureshot8399 Yes learn't a lot during this. Porsche will sell a new engine foe 23K; but I got mine rebuilt from LN Engineering and made mine a 3.8L, which is a lot of power for these small cars cost about 21K. Now I can take on a 911 ;-)
i could hear those 9a1 prices rise
The jury is still out on the 9A1.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe no clue how DFI will age but less modes of failure than m96/m97.
@@RennvisionbyTheKnowledgeGruppe Really?
Most of the 2006 were built in late 2005!!!
But wait, there's more. Act now and you can get a second bearing absolutely free..