What If Monica Seles Was Never Stabbed? | Halftime Roomies
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- čas přidán 22. 01. 2021
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On April 30 1993, a deranged man stabbed world number 1 female tennis player Monica Seles on court during a match in Germany. This incident would change the course of female tennis and take the careers of two very different players in two very different directions.
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Youngest french open champion at 16 and this record still remains. Guess who was the defeated opponent. And this opponent had a dominant run directly after the stabbing after 3 years of slump. That poor girl wasn't even 20 before she got stabbed and she had already won 8 Grandslams. That is a record which will never be broken. People who trivialize that stabbing and downplay her achievements are probably mentally sick like their mentor Günther Parche.
It. Sucked. She was on the greatest roll in tennis history
@Revol: That is nonsense! The younger the players had been on top, the earlier they often had to retire because of injuries and other problems. Look at Austin, Hingis, Jaeger, Rehe, Osaka, Barty. Even Graf had problems with injuries from 1992/3 on. Even Graf lost some final unexpectedly - f.e. FO 89 or lost the Olympic Final 1992. No player is a "machine" with a function which can be predicted. Seles at her top level was humiliated 1992 in Wimbledon by Graf. This final prooves that Seles had not the versatility of Graf. And a PTSD as explanation for the minor success from 1994 on (especially 1996/6 USO final) is ridiculous. The injury itself by stubbing was minimal. No important nerve or muscle was injured.
@@JohnSmith-qg3jb You're right: Seles was mental not strong enough.
Gunther Parche made it easy for his compatriot to win more Slams. What s shame
The fact that some of Graf's fans try to convince us that the stab wasn't severe, and that she could have easily recovered shows they are not so different from the criminal who stabbed her. It's also obvious they know nothing about mental health issues. If I were Monica ,I would be so scared to sit comfortably during the change over.
I used to watch all her matches as a kid. She is one of the greatest gentlewomen the tennis has seen. If she had not been attached, she would have been credited with the most grand slam titles.
I used to watch Seles’s matches also. I thought that her screaming was unprofessional and cheating. And now everyone does it.
So true. Anyone with the sense knows that.
@@cyriljacob4839 Same as Hingis who won 3 slams at age 16 and won her 5th slam a few weeks after having turned 18.
Had she not been stabbed she would have won more than 25 slams.
Seles was 19 years old when she got stabbed. People here commenting as if she was a washed up star before that and was going to stop winning anytime soon. Mindless agendas and plebs. She was the most dominant player for 3-4 years before the stabbing and was unstoppable. Look at her winning percentage and titles. She was 19, best on the planet and winning slam after slam. The stabbing put her in a dark place and the mental toll it took on her killed her career. The tennis world abandoned her in her time of need, the courts of Germany were a laughing stock and the guy who just tried to kill her was walking free.
Put yourself in her shoes and try to imagine with your very limited knowledge of the sport and pain she endured, how you'd cope with so much at the age of 19!!! People need to stop talking like morons about her being overrated or washed up or not good enough and realize that if not for the stabbing, her dominance would've continued for many more years. She may or may not end up with the most grand slams or the most illustrious career ever but winning 13-16 slams overall and a few dozen more titles was a very achievable goal and the stabbing took that away. Mental health is no joke. Put some respect on the name of Monica Seles!!!
Agreed. People who've never picked up a racquet acting like Seles was some one hit wonder. Clearly these numps are sympathizers and followers of Gunther Parche.
Absolutely true. That incident is the worst things that taught me a lot about fanatic. Since then, yes they both amazing, yes I lov steffi but for me Monica is the greatest who sacrificed. It's sad that some fanatic fans don't know how to RESPECT another
I couldn’t agree more. And yes, Coke over Pepsi! Was there ever a question? 🤣
Also, thanks for recognizing that mental and emotional health are no joke. Not sure the idea of PTSD was in the zeitgeist yet in 1993.
She had the amazing ability to uncork something out of nothing and create angles and pace you didn't think possible with so much disguise in her awkward strokes. She was unique and should have been admired and left to that. I hated the noise, but came to admire the best tennis I ever saw from a woman. Serena could not be as consistent. She did not put herself on the line nearly as much as many other players with such longevity. Serena was not a day-to-day tennis pro. She was a big event player.
It took Seles 2.5-3 years to win her first 8 Grand Slam titles; It took Serena Williams 8 years to win 8.
If Monica was never stabbed Steffi would have never won 22 grand slam. I can guarantee my life on it.
Max is deranged like Parsche. He knows Steffi would only have 12-13. Monica would be far ahead.
@Max E ohh bless her..let us feel bad for that
Agree. If she still dominated AO - French & US until 1996 then she might won more 10-11 GS. So total could be collected 19-20 GS. Imagine how more grand slam if she also won wimbledon. She was amazing. That guy is truly criminal. but we know that they let him live free & No jail. Injustice
@@akapela2343 and why exactly are we saying she would stop dominating in 1996? Graff was still winning slams in 1999 and she was years older than Seles
@@vincenzofranchelli2201 Monica is female version of Nadal who can play best on clay. Even she can play very well on hard courts. The best players usually have prime time around 5-6 years, then new gens will come. The fact is she spent only 3 years to reached final on wimbledon 1992 then took over No.1 for months. That's what we called it high statistic progress. So, it means she was the hardest rival of steffi for next 2-3 years (it means around 94-95). Then Seles came back in 1996 & that's not her prime time anymore. Even new gens came (martina hingis & justin).
Well, do u know she has big trauma & never want to play anymore in germany ? Have u ever been stabbed ? Have u ever spent 2 years recovery by seriously accident ? For me, I don't need to have same accident to pay some respect how great monica was. I lov steffi but start lov monica since she reached wimbledon & western mass media bullied her moaning. In 1996 she's a not really magic Seles like she used to be 1990-93. But yes she is still great player & I really respect for all magic she done
Wow, the only player that stood by Seles and voted for Seles to keep her No. 1 status. That speaks so highly of Gabriela Sabatini. 🤗👏🏽
It was disappointing to know that no one except Sabatini stood by Seles.
Abstaining means not voting.
From german dont expect a samurai honor codex,ruthless exploitation of circumstances for my personal benefit,that is german
@@user-kw8ff9ne8l says the bitter Greek who is the expert on Germany of course while enjoying German tax payers money in his state budget everyday ... yawn.
@@HaleG9 And who make the really hard work in germany,foreigners like the greeks,they pay taxes to the german state
Monica Seles was the hottest commodity in women's tennis back in the early 90s. My mom and I would watch every game of hers. She definitely would of had at least double the grand slams had she not been attacked.
Not only would Monica Seles would’ve won more slams but Steffi Graf would NOT have won 22 that’s the kindest way that I can put it. BTW- I’m a fan of both Steffi and Monica. ✌️
@@josevenancio5008 - Well said. You are exactly right.
Monica would have won more Grand Slam titles than Graf for sure.
@Young Young , You can say that again.
@Young Young specially in Wimbledon where she dominated
Monica is/was the best!!
Seles was an absolutely phenomenal tennis player. Not to diminish Graf's accomplishments, but Seles after just a few short years on the tour had already amassed 8 Singles Grand Slams before her 20th birthday. She even still had 3 more Grand Slams to play in 93 before her 20th birthday, but then the stabbing happened. No one in the Open Era has won that much and that fast from the moment they turned professional until their 20th birthday. Whereas Graf had been on the tour since the early 80's and was sitting at 11 Singles Grand Slams at the moment of the stabbing. Seles was already just 3 away from tying her. Although Graf was still leading their head to head meetings at that time and got 3 wins over Seles in Monica's first year as a professional player, they met in 4 Grand Slam finals before the stabbing with Seles winning 3 of them. Although we will never know now what could have been if the stabbing hadn't happened, one thing is for certain they brought out the best in one another and we were all robbed of a rivalry between the two that could have been similar to Evert and Navratilova.
At my age I’ve already suffered some devastating losses like the majority of us, but what happened to Monica represents for me an immeasurable injustice that still hurts me. I find a great sense of relief only thinking to the incredible path she made for getting beyond that injustice and seeing the great woman and human being she has become. For me an invaluable source of inspiration when I must face my own frustrations and little or big unfairness problems we all have to experience sooner or later in our everyday life.
MONICA, simply the best ever
I don’t know who you are, but thank you, thank you-THANK YOU for making this video. I really appreciate your thorough fact-gathering and analysis. It supports what I always suspected-that Monica Seles was well on her way to being the greatest of all time.
As a side note, I also appreciate that you did all this without in any way tarnishing Graf, who is another one of my favorite players and who had a beautiful spectacular game herself.
I will forever love and admire Monica Seles’ game, her fearlessness, power, tenacity, her focus, her nerves of steel even in crucial points.
As for the players voting to freeze the number one ranking-I’m not sure whether you presented that fairly (not accusing you because I’m not sure, just raising the issue). I seem to recall when she returned that she was made the co-number one. What’s your take on that? I’ve never really thought about it-did you think that didn’t really go far enough?
So the German government went soft on a german citizen that helped a german player. Sounds like the police department investigating a police officer and found the police officer did nothing wrong because of qualified Immunity. Ok, I see it clearly now.
@Max E I live in the USA. Calling our system third world is a compliment. Our police are legalized pirates. They can take anything they want and keep it!!! Looks like your independent judiciary is bought and paid for also...
Seleš was dominating at the time. She had overtaken Graf and held the Nº 1 world ranking. She had won 3 straight Australian Opens (1991, 1992 and 1993).......3 straight at Roland Garros (1990, 1991, 1992)......and also back-to-back U.S. Open titles (1991, 1992). That terror attack cut short her tennis career. At the pace at which she was winning Grand Slams, she could have easily amassed 20+ Major titles.
She only won the 1996 Australian Open title, after coming back. She vowed never to play in Germany again....and she didn't.
I will never forget the 30th of April, 1993. A very sad day. 😟
She never 'dominated' at all. Even in her 'domination' period she lost 6-2, 6-1 against a Graf (in a match where you can learn what the term 'domination' means) that was not in the best of her form during 1991-1993. And the matches that she won where all very close. You can dream on, but facts and speculation are two different things.
@@HaleG9 We will have to «agree to disagree» 😑
@@HaleG9 you are hallucinating again. If graf could be trashed in wimbledon at the first round, what makes you think monica would not beat her? And do not forget wimbledon prevented monica to grunt, which virtually robbed her, again, of her power precision game. Oh, say hi to your lunatic father Gunther will ya?
@@oliverjuria993 You are talking to your self, lunatic Seles fan boy. On carpet and gras your little grunter got utterly devasted by Steffi each and every time on gras 6-0, 6-1 and 6-2, 6-1. These are the facts not your wishful thinking. But you are not worth any discussion, keep on talking to your mirror, kiddo.
not worth any discussion? LOL, then why are here you imbecile. u just can't sleep coz Graf was a fake GS winner that without her accomplice Gunther lunatic Fart doing the dirty deed for her, Graf would end up forever 2nd to Seles. and THAT, you have to live for the rest of your life.
Monica seles will be always a legend...... respect you.....
Monica in the form she was and still in training both physically, mentally and in her game would have won another 9 grand slams without a doubt. This was the beginning of the end of her career. It is so.
Seles and Sabatini were favs as a kid.
@Mariners Dugout 👍😉 Me too.
@Max E your comments in every Monica"s video are ugly
They are m favourite female tennis players. too. I met Gaby for half an hour. Not only was she beautiful, she was gracious as well.
@Young Young let the fanatic fans say bla bla bla .. just ignore him. some fanatic are weird & can not respect another. Even one of them stabbed the opponent such as that Germany guy. That criminal didn't go to jail & live free. It's injustice law, Isn't It ?
Thank you. Congrats on this video.
Thanks for watching! Hope you're enjoying our content!
What most people don't realize is that she was still improving. In the 93 Aus Open final, she outaced graf and came to the net more. We actually never saw Monica in her prime. Still, nobody hits angles with such accuracy and with such few errors as Monica. She may have never won Wimbledon, but she could have easily won 6-8 each at the other three slams.
I know womens and mens tennis are completely different stories but if we compare what she acheieved from age 16-19 and the big 3 greatest players of all time she wipes the floor with all 3 of them.
If we only count what any female tennis player acheieved before the age monica was stabbed she is better than every single one of them and its not even close.
If steffi graf got a golden calander slam in her prime and monica could beat her as a tiny 16 year old on a CLAY court which usually needs so much strength monica couldve got 3 calander slams in a row
I bet she would've figured out how to win Wimbledon and once she did look out
Chris Evert and Navratilova had to settle for 18 slams each because they are both GOAT candidates challenging each other for slams.
Most likely Graf would have to settle for around 12-15 slams if Seles had remained on her trajectory ... Seles would most likely have won around 24 slams at least and stopped Graf from winning so many Wimbledons ...
@@topherprofit8814 Agree. She would have won Wimbledon too. It has been a very big loss for women's tennis.
yes but graf got close in the 93 australian open. If they would have played in 94 Australian open graf may have got her. Graf would have continued to work to figure out the monica puzzle.
Monica Seles was one of the greatest tennis players I had the pleasure to watch.
Seles is one player that should be mentioned in the GOAT discussion. I think Serena is the only other player with as close to 8 slams around the same age Monica was. what a shame for us tennis fans.
@@derrickc1353 at 19 years old Monica had 8 and Serena had 1. That is how dominant Seles was.
@@adammendez9297 Yeah Seles may be the GOAT. But Graf almost beat her at the Austrailan open in 93, so Graf might have got in in 94 Aus Open. Seles could have gotten burned out like Borg and McEnroe. We will never know, but Seles was well on her way, Hingis and the williams Sisters would have been some competition for Seles.
@@derrickc1353 For sure players like the Williams sisters and Hingis would have been tough competition for Monica even if she had never been attacked. As for Graf “almost beating her” in the ‘93 AO final … were we watching the same match bro? 😄
@@johnoquinn3737 It went 3 sets and Graf has some chances to win the match. Seles played the bigger points better. So Graf either gets better and beats her some or she goes away like Borg and McEnroe.
Yep, was a big time tennis fan during the early 90's and Seles was clearly establishing herself as #1. Sadly, the crazed German's plan worked to perfection. He eliminated Steffi's rival and paved the way for her to have one of the greatest careers ever.
She was definitely robbed and I absolutely believe that Steffi would not have won as many GS as she did if Monica wasn’t stabbed.
She'd only have 18 I think.
That guy got away with attempted murder.
And if the Semi Final match in Grandslam were given only Sanchez and Seles " I don't think Seles won't win any 8 of her Grandslam
Yeah Graf was psychologically defeated until the stabbing.
thank you for making this
I think Seles prime if she had not stabbed is until 1996. Around about 18 grand slam titles
Possibly. The likelihood of that happening was pretty high at her peak and the stabbing took away her mental edge and toughness from the game.
Maybe. But, Graf switched in 1994 from her old Dunlop Max 200G to Wilson.
Ever played that flexible racquet?
Agree. If she still dominated AO, French & US along 1993-1995 then she might won 10-11. So total might be 10+ 8 = 18 GS. Even I used to believe thought that she would able to won Wimbledon arpund 1993-95. But damn ! that fanatic steffi's fans was criminal. The worst scandal in tennis history. He killed a young girl's dream
Only 18? She had 8 at the age Graff had 3, how can you only give her credit for 18 up to 96? She beat graff in 7 out of 8 slam finals in a row and graff was winning slams in 97 while being significantly older
@@vincenzofranchelli2201 i believe she can win more but in 1996 the new gens came specially martina hingis, justin & mary jo. Remember martina hingis won golden slam ? She is amazing young girl
There is no doubt that Monica Seles would have won so much more had she not been stabbed at the height of her career back in April of 1993. Monica was so tough mentally and so much power from her forehand and her backhand and no one was going to stop her. Unfortunately Monica would never regain her former physical and mental form and could not produce her best tennis on a consistant basis when she came back to the game in 1995.
Her mental health took a very tough blow and she never recovered. It was a great career and rivalry that we got robbed of.
1. Serena (and Venus) Williams. Had she not introduced screaming and howling (taught to by her dad just to annoy the opposition) will never be the GOAT. Had those screams not been part of them, a handful of their slam wins can be removed.
2. Monica Seles and Steffi Graff. Many athletes, no matter their hype and height, do great for a few years then decline. It happens. It's science and evidence. Seles was no exception. What also happened was other players, including Steffi, came to see Seles's obvious weakness: double handing everything. It's no one elses fault. Tennis must move on. The stab on the back was no more than a paper cut. If one will IF Sele's decline, one must IF Steffi Graff's being affected by her fathers tax cam and, a few years later, her major knee surgery. So IF Seles, IF Steffi, Capriati, and others.
3. Again, some athletes do great, some for a long time, others for a few years. This video and those who agree with it about Seles's IF: use you brains.
@@markuse3472 what brains have u got, from a nazi murderer or from a slimy worm?
The thing is this was only the height of her career because of the stabbing. This was likely just before the true height of her career. She was improving her serve and after winning 3 slams 2 years in a row as a teenager she likely couldve got multiple calendar slams in the coming years. No one gets worse at age 20. Its crazy that the hypothetical of her winning every slam from 92 USO - 95 FO (11 in a row) sounds not only realistic but more likely than not
The perfect balance of Monica Seles. The way she hit the ball two hands both sides made her so hard to predict direction of her shots. Pretty impressive. Sad what happened in Germany. I agree she would probably become women tennis GOAT. But one thing makes me hesitant was the fact she gained many inches in height. Not sure she would be perfectly balanced like she was in his young age. I mean the vision perspective & trajectory of the balls weren't the same. But getting stabbed was for sure & sadly the major reason... She was a real machine: I don't remember a woman hitting this hard like a metronome, with so few unforced errors. The ultimate champion!
Great video mate! Cheers!
Thanks a lot! Hope you're enjoying our content!
Very sad that she was not just stabbed in the back by that fan, but also by the other female players who didn't let her keep her ranking out of respect
Exactly..
What a great blog, documentary, (whatever this is called). Very interesting, without fanfare or irritating background sound effects. Succinct and attention-holding, and informing. Thank you
Great video! Thank you for making this video.
Defo would have 6-7 more grand slams ezee
@Doctor Woozy - Easily. Sadly younger people probably have no idea how good she was. Monica won 8 Grand Slams BEFORE she was even 20 years old. Think about that. In my opinion she would have had a great rivalry with Graf. No way Graf would have 22 Slams, if not for that idiot German stabbing Monica. Monica was never the same after that.
I would even argue to say more then 6-7 majors I mean she played till 2003
@@sportssolid2425 sure, defininitely 200-300... I hope that at least you are taking yourself seriously
@@HaleG9 What? I said she played till the year 2003 what do you mean by 200-300?
Even more. Steffi got lucky.
I loved Seles. My heart broke when she was stabbed.
Steffi's silence stinks to high heaven.
Graf didn't even withdraw from the tournament where Monica was stabbed. She's so un-sportswomanlike.
Yeah Graf was cold. Monica is a lovely warm person
@@yussepig6629 , You can deny the facts. Yes I must agree wholeheartedly. I didn't like the way Graf didn't show any sympathy at all when Monica was stabbed, downtrodden, cheated by the German law and the tennis world as well.
@Young Young , I totally agree that Monica would have won more Grand Slam titles than Graf and Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert, too. Graf is like Federer as far as her athleticism is concerned, but not in humanity and class. Graf is more like Joker, I feel.
@@kazuakigabychan8147 Why should Graf withdraw from that tournament? I mean its bad that Seles got stabbed, but why should she retire? I dont get your logic. Graf has class and she doesnt do drama. She is the Federer of her time. Seles in terms of her tenacity is like Djokovic but she definitely has way more class than him when it comes to sportsmanship
It is interesting that she was a student of Jelena Gencic. Just like Novak Djokovic ... and Goran Ivanisevic.
I love Monica, I get sad every time I think about what happened. Graf had 9 totulos before the Seles' first, after the AO 1993 it was 11x8, apart from the year-end championships. Graf reigned in Monica's absence, a criminal injustice. I'm sure Seles would have more titles than Graf
For sure. Seles would've had many more titles to her name.
@Napolein Meitai You've got to be joking. Hingis was a VERY talented player. But an in-form, in-shape, mentally uninjured Seles would have crushed those puff ball serves of hers. Come on ... you know better.
@@HalftimeRoomies , more than Graf most likely.
Sorry, you destroyed your credibility by claiming that Seles “was dominating Steffi Graf”. When? How?
1989: Graf 3, Seles 0
1990: Seles 2, Graf 0 (both on clay)
1991: Graf 2, Seles 0
1992: Graf 1, Seles 1
1993: Seles 1, Graf 0
What dominance! Greatest number of consecutive victories by Seles over Graf: 2
Simply put, seles was just better than graf when she got stabbed and was getting better and stronger.
@Max E she got fatter because a crazy mad German wanted graf to be #1 so he stabbed seles. Seles became depressed and stopped playing tennis.
Only one thing missing on her resume - Wimbledon....
We can but dream that she would have won it - many times over *sob*
True. Finally she successfully reached wimbledon final in 1992. That's what made steffi's fanatic fans panic & worry then went cracy
Steffi should have been banned
For what ???? LOL
@@WONGLERfor orchestrating the entire thing.now sitting at the top shamelessly.
Great video. No way, Graf wins 22 grand slams with a healthy Seles around. Obviously, Seles wins more than 9 grand slams if fully healthy. Peak Seles was better than Graf on any court besides grass.
@Biney Singh yeah sure. Lol.
1. Serena (and Venus) Williams. Had she not introduced screaming and howling (taught to by her dad just to annoy the opposition) will never be the GOAT. Had those screams not been part of them, a handful of their slam wins can be removed.
2. Monica Seles and Steffi Graff. Many athletes, no matter their hype and height, do great for a few years then decline. It happens. It's science and evidence. Seles was no exception. What also happened was other players, including Steffi, came to see Seles's obvious weakness: double handing everything. It's no one elses fault. Tennis must move on. The stab on the back was no more than a paper cut. If one will IF Sele's decline, one must IF Steffi Graff's being affected by her fathers tax cam and, a few years later, her major knee surgery. So IF Seles, IF Steffi, Capriati, and others.
3. Again, some athletes do great, some for a long time, others for a few years. This video and those who agree with it about Seles's IF: use you brains.
@Young Young Your wishful thinking is bordering on stupidity. I stated the facts, reason and wisdom, and all you can do is read things in the blank spaces.
She got stabbed at the age of 19 with 8 Grand slams to her name. 8 GRAND SLAMS AT 19!!!!
I'm convinced that Monica would have been the greatest of that generation. Lefties have a natural advantage, she won her first slam at 16. Could definitely have made the serve a weapon and she pretty much changed the way the game was played. If Navratilova was the matriarch of power tennis, Monica was definitely the mother of all mothers at that time. She became the prototype for the way women today play the game. She was the Serena of that era. I think Monica would have 20-25 and Graf would have 15-16 slams.
Serena said Seles was her idol and wanted to play like her...power and precision.
I watch the Monica matches yet, I love her game and styles.
Agree with all your points. Graf would have had some more victories of Seles, but the stats don't lie. It would have been really interesting to see how Monica would have evolved as a player to keep up with the likes of Hingis and the Williams sisters when they came along. Sad that we will never know what her full potential was. Oh, and the fact the players didn't support her better is absolutely disgraceful, particularly Graf. Sabatini and Navratilova showed their class after the incident, I think they were two of the players who stayed in touch with Seles during recovery.
It is interesating that the report 'forgets' that it was Graf who agreed on co-seeding her as number 1in all Grand Slam tournaments when Seles came back. Also what seems to be missed in the video is the fact that Seles' father made very strong accusations against Graf (called her 'knife-Graf' etc.) after the stabbing. Even when I understand his bitterness, this was far over the top. So, please be careful with your framing of 'disgrace'.
Seles is my favorite women’s player. Her unmatched dominance makes her GOAT in my opinion.
yes an argument can be made for Seles being the GOAT because of her dominance at such a young age. Not seeing the prime of her career.
Monica gave Steffi fits in the early 90s. She was so far ahead of Steffi during that time that I wonder if Steffi would’ve ever caught back up. 93 was a game changer for sure.
@Nelson Thapa late 90s yeah. 97 and 98 Steffi barely played. 99 though she was healthy.
Steffi - Seles 6:4 before the stabbing.
Graf was fast becoming an also ran until stabbing.
@@Will-nb8qkAnd how did the stabbing have any effect? Graf resumed beating the same players she was beating before because Seles was stabbed? Be serious
@@JohnSmith-oe5kx : Graf lost her dominance and was quite obvious if you lived that period and followed tennis.
Great video !
Glad you enjoyed it!
great video...facts presented so well.
I loved this video. Thank you!
In 1993 AO final she showed tremendous improvements on her serve placement and sped , as well as a much better net game. In other words she was working hard for improving her overall game. And another important aspect was that at that time she hadn’t still finished growing in height. So it was very likely that she would have great chances in getting also the Wimbledon title under her belt.
💯👍
Right! She outaced AND hit more forehand winners than graf in the 1993 Aus Open final. She was incrementally improving and adding to her game.
Just for that reason I hated Steffi in her later part of career. Imagine what Monica has to go through mentally, she could never be the same player again.
agree. The worst thing is they let him live free & No jail. He killed a young girl's dream. They all killed Monica's dream. Poor monica
30 years later I still feel very sad. Monica would have broken every single record.
Monica Seles would have been the GOAT. Won 8-9 Grand Slam by the age of 18. She would have won in the upper twenties if she never was stabbed. No one ,not even today ,would have won more Grand Slam. Sad time in sports.
I think Seles would be dominating until 1996 and still strong until Williams' prime.
Seles and Steffi would've had a major share of the titles. Seles could've had many more but it's a great debate now. Interesting to see how everyone remembers Seles and her dominance in the early 90's.
1. Serena (and Venus) Williams. Had she not introduced screaming and howling (taught to by her dad just to annoy the opposition) will never be the GOAT. Had those screams not been part of them, a handful of their slam wins can be removed.
2. Monica Seles and Steffi Graff. Many athletes, no matter their hype and height, do great for a few years then decline. It happens. It's science and evidence. Seles was no exception. What also happened was other players, including Steffi, came to see Seles's obvious weakness: double handing everything. It's no one elses fault. Tennis must move on. The stab on the back was no more than a paper cut. If one will IF Sele's decline, one must IF Steffi Graff's being affected by her fathers tax cam and, a few years later, her major knee surgery. So IF Seles, IF Steffi, Capriati, and others.
3. Again, some athletes do great, some for a long time, others for a few years. This video and those who agree with it about Seles's IF: use you brains.
@@markuse3472 - Are you serious? No I am not John McEnroe. Your Point #2 was just so nonchalant about the stabbing, I couldn’t believe what I read. To you maybe “no more than a paper cut, but to Monica it was way more. It affected her tremendously emotionally, and then physically. You know she never even came back to Germany to testify against that crazed lunatic, she was so traumatized.
Steffi’s dad’s issues were there and it could have, but looked like it didn’t affect her game long term. But I put those 2 incidents in way different classifications than you do. Not even close. Emotionally, and then physically Monica was never the same. I guess if you got stabbed you would be back on the tour in no time, and you would move on. Monica is not you - sir.
@@HalftimeRoomies I do not remember any dominance of Seles at all. Even in her 'domination' period she lost 6-2, 6-1 against a Graf (in a match where you can learn what the term 'domination' means) who was not in the best of her form during 1991-1993. And the matches that Seles won against Graf were all very close.
@@missourimanful Well I guess to claim that it was 'Germany' and not a German lunatic is like claiming America is stupid, criminal and corrupt because of Trump and not Trump himself. Besides that the case of Trump is definitely stronger, since he was voted for.
What peope tend to forget is that most of the Germans I know felt really bad about it, too and that the court set the stabber free after 6 months was als bad, but it was according to German laws that were not invented for this case.
Other than that, Steffi was obviously affected a lot by her Dad's issues (he was most influential on her career). The fact that during that time she lost plenty of times to players she hardly lost to before and after (Sabatini) are a strong indicator for that. I tend to think that Steffi would have come back with or without the stabbing. But that is speculation - just like the whole video. As a matter of fact, this terrible event prevented us from witnessing the development of one the most interesting rivalries of female tennis.
Monica would be the greatest of all time.
She'd for sure have a very solid case to make at the very least.
She'd definitely have a good case to make had she been fit both physically and mentally. The stabbing just took away any chance of it ever happening.
Yes she's up there with the very best.A great player.
That criminal guy killed a young girl's dream. The worst thing that let him live free & No jail. That's why Monica has trauma & never wanna go to Germany anymore
Monica was on of the ten most interesting or influential persons in 1991 or 1992 in the Time Magazine if I remember correctly. Does anyone know? I think she was one of the first woman ever chosen.
Wow, if she had been one of the first women, that would be very shallow and mindless of Time since all one needs to do is look into entertainment and see the massive number of women who would have had substantial influence before the early 1990s.
@@markuse3472 , Don't be jealous! It shows how influential and interesting she was!
Throughout history, those with the better weapons won.And that was Monica Seles -her double-handed backhand and forehand, hit with ferocious power, was the the most devastating weaponry that any player (male or female),ever had.
And to think this lunatic didn't even go to jail, unreal!
Of the current players, I support Swiatek
She's good. Lots of exciting players on tour currently. We've been lucky to witness so many great champions over the decades.
Swiatek is really good. Has a French slam and at 19 years old is just getting started. She could become a dominant force along side Naomi Osaka in this decade of tennis.
Yes. And I think, that Swiatek will not make political statements all the time.
@Biney Singh Osaka is human and can be brought down. Goodness, people can be so senseless.
7:30 holy crap those stats are ridiculous. And she was still a teenager.
Seles won three grand slams a year in 1991 and 1992. Let's say she wins 3 in 1993,1994, 1995 and 1996. That would add up to 19 grand slams.
She very easily would've had over 13 grand slams at the very least and then more on top of that. Got robbed of her best years and an incredible rivalry with Graf.
Even with a conservative number of 15 slams that she could easily have achieved, Steffi's number would be down and therefore Seles would be higher up in the rankings. It was a great rivalry that was just getting started.
@@HalftimeRoomies You should not forget, that Steffi had a lot of injuries in the second half of the 90s. Not to mention that drama with her father.
1. Serena (and Venus) Williams. Had she not introduced screaming and howling (taught to by her dad just to annoy the opposition) will never be the GOAT. Had those screams not been part of them, a handful of their slam wins can be removed.
2. Monica Seles and Steffi Graff. Many athletes, no matter their hype and height, do great for a few years then decline. It happens. It's science and evidence. Seles was no exception. What also happened was other players, including Steffi, came to see Seles's obvious weakness: double handing everything. It's no one elses fault. Tennis must move on. The stab on the back was no more than a paper cut. If one will IF Sele's decline, one must IF Steffi Graff's being affected by her fathers tax cam and, a few years later, her major knee surgery. So IF Seles, IF Steffi, Capriati, and others.
3. Again, some athletes do great, some for a long time, others for a few years. This video and those who agree with it about Seles's IF: use you brains.
Absolutely true. Martina Navratilova said so
This was a fantastic video. Thank you. The stats are great and testament to Monica’s legend as a player.
Glad you enjoyed it!
God I miss Monica. The only thing that has saved tennis (for me) after she retired is Rafa Nadal. He is the ONLY player other than Seles whom I've ever seen play every point with the same intensity, irrespective of the score. Monica & Rafa will always be my favorite champions!
I agree. Monica and Rafa both could fall under this amazing, ocd like, tenacious focus during matches…. a sort of competitive trance and deliver when it mattered most.
Monica lost that edge after the stabbing and we only saw brief glimpses of it in her second career.
@@1Rdby You obviously recognize the supernormal level of intensity I was trying to identify. A kind of ocd, as you said, is a great way to describe it. Rafa’s got it for sure, and Monica had it through out her career in my opinion. What the stabbing and time away robbed her of was the sense of invincibility …and her top level of fitness. But her killer instinct never waned. Watching her grind her teeth waiting to return serve, knowing that anything except an ace was likely going to be met with a screaming winner … ah, that was fun to watch. One measure of that instinct is hitting the ball harder and closer to the line when things get tight, like on break points or set points. You really can’t teach or coach that sort of behavior. The truly special champions just have it.
Anyway, great reply 1Rdby! 😃
@@johnoquinn3737 spot on!
@johnoquinn I couldn't agree with you more! Rafa and Monica, the 2 players I would pick if my life depended on it.
Suspended sentence says it all
Imagine Roger was winning and nadal was stabbed or when Roger nadal we're winning ..djokovic was stabbed ...i remember that day ..seles was very strong
I believe the three men would not have crumbled as Seles did on the court when the stab happened. They would have likely recognized it's insignificance and moved on, likely have continued with the match. I know of the cut, I have read and watched just about everything on it.
great video
To me she is the GOAT in women's tennis if everything being equal and fair. Yes stabbed twice by the WTA and a crazy fan
Seles had 8 slams before she turned 20. She would have had probably 30 right now.
@Biney Singh That's stupid. No one had close to 8 slams before 20
1. Serena (and Venus) Williams. Had she not introduced screaming and howling (taught to by her dad just to annoy the opposition) will never be the GOAT. Had those screams not been part of them, a handful of their slam wins can be removed.
2. Monica Seles and Steffi Graff. Many athletes, no matter their hype and height, do great for a few years then decline. It happens. It's science and evidence. Seles was no exception. What also happened was other players, including Steffi, came to see Seles's obvious weakness: double handing everything. It's no one elses fault. Tennis must move on. The stab on the back was no more than a paper cut. If one will IF Sele's decline, one must IF Steffi Graff's being affected by her fathers tax cam and, a few years later, her major knee surgery. So IF Seles, IF Steffi, Capriati, and others.
3. Again, some athletes do great, some for a long time, others for a few years. This video and those who agree with it about Seles's IF: use you brains.
@Max E Hell no. Nothing ever happened to Hingis.
I’m still upset about this nearly 30 years later. Seles and Graf were very evenly matched, and their rivalry would have been epic.
Would have been very interesting to see. Steffi would have been forced to use the topspin backhand more often and maybe Monica would have hit her forehand with one hand. So sad we didn't see more matches between these two.
Graf had no topspin backhand, it was only a drive
When I saw the stabbing, I was like, you gotta be kidding me. How the hell is he allowed to even come close to Seles? The incident was an outrage. What kind of country is that? When you go to Germany you are struck by how orderly they are as a culture. Nothing is out of kilter so how the heck do they allow this to happen and then go unpunished. You can even say that Germany even promoted this type of behavior by letting this guy go with no penalty. Seles is the greatest WTA I ever seen. And I've been watching tennis since a child in the 70s. She would have surpassed every record. Her ability to hit angle winners from anywhere on court is a talent no one on Earth had or has. She was unplayable. Every great WTA player knows this, even if they don't say it. And I'm glad Martina came out and voiced that. How this one crazed fanatic cheated us out of her greatest is such a tragedy for us all who are tennis fans.
They worst thing is then they let that criminal lives free & No jail. Can u imagine that injustice ?
@@akapela2343 And it was a clear murder attempt...
@@riveraharper8166 maybe. But I'm not sure. It just looked a like terror. Character assassination. Mental murder
@@akapela2343 No. It was a loser psycho lame attempt but the motive was Clear!
@@riveraharper8166 it could be. But how could they let a psycho live free & unjailed ?
Thanks for this amazing truthful video.... I'm an 80s generation I was a huge fun of Monica, I even was watching life that stabbing day match. Everyone's was chocked.
And yes it's true what is mentioned in the video, if Monica Seles hadn't had that unfair, unhuman, unlucky incident, I'm definitely sure that she's having now the top records of all time, with most grand slams wins, most titles won, most percentages wins and the list continues.
Unfortunately, that psychopath had for sure changed the course of history.
Anyways, I guess today he left us, and we still have that fireball legendary Seles, yes for me she's one the best of all time.
STEFFI GRAF 6-4 PRIOR TO THE PAPER CUT, 4-1 AFTER THE BUFFET. Steffi was dominating Seles, Seles simply had the easier draws in that time hence made it to the finals more. What stupid people fail to mention are a few things. 1, most players figured Seles out, her unbending two-handing everything, and they went at her. It's that simple. 2. She won one more slam, proving she was still the same player. However, her huge weakness was figured out. 3. It happens in ALL sports: baseball, basketball, football, boxing, hockey, gymnastics, TENNIS, etc., where someone does great a year, two, a few, then drop. IT. HAPPENS. But stupidity is what most Seles fans educate themselves with so they create their 'stories.' Steffi is The GOAT, no screams and howls needed--as in the Williams, who did it just to annoy and distract their competition. 4. Tennis did the correct, right and professional thing. You don't play, you can't keep your spot. You expect the traffic to be stuck all day because the lead car needs to change all it's tires, all it's lights, the starter, etc? Get a brain, people. Lastly, Steffi also had to deal with a few physical/medical problems (a major knee operation) and mental issues (her dad's legal tax problems and marital problems). Then, Steffi would have won even more. The cut on Seles' back was no more than a shrug-off but she made it seem larger than it was. What if she, or they, hadn't, what if...what if...
@@markuse3472
But Graf's first 3 wins was during Seles's first few months on tour as a 15year old ...
Obviously the h2h is going to favor an established dominant player in the initial period against a new upcoming one.
After that first 3 early losses, Seles was 4-3 against Graf including 3-1 in slams. She was well on her way to erasing her early deficits but her march was cut short by the stabbing.
You have to be fair with h2h, Seles was not given the chance to naturally develope, so how can you take the h2h after stabbing seriously ??
By the way, you will shocked by this information, even after stabbing, Seles actually won more games in 3 out of the 5 matches against Graf ....
Don't believe ?
Go check on their h2h matches after stabbing, its online for everyone to see....
Hahaha ... shame on you ...
She was the winner......
I so appreciate this.
I'm glad you made the point that before Monica appeared, Graf had no real competition to speak of.
❤️🍀🍀🥀🥀🍀Amazing Monica🍀🥀🥀🍀🍀❤️
L'agression de Seles a changé l'histoire du tennis féminin. Elle aurait pu gagner beaucoup plus de Grand Chelem. Ce qui s'est produit était vraiment triste.
AWESOME video..how about that 55-1 grand slam record from Jan91-Feb93!
Only we, the 90s kid know what was impact of this incidence. That man actually "stabbed" women's tennis, not only Seles.
True. That dirty politic is so mean. Criminal. He killed a young girls dream. The worst thimng is that criminal live free & No jail. WEIRD & INJUSTICE
Just as disgusting now as it was in 1993. I’m sorry but Graf was not a kind person. She benefited from her fan taking out the woman who was replacing her, when her own brand of tennis couldn’t handle Seles’ game, and ended up adding to her Grand Slam totals and weeks at #1 totals as if Seles never existed. For shame. Can you imagine if an Evert fan took out Navratilova? If a Federer fan took out Nadal? My stomach turns to this day whenever Graf is mentioned as one of the greatest ever. 1988 was hers, no question, but the rest of her career should always have an asterisk next to it.
100% agree.
Tennis history should get it right -- this is a major story that should always be told in conjunction with Graf's results in 1990's.
Never was a fan of Sales but admired Steffi but after this incident felt that injustice was netted on Sales... Gabriella is a remarkable and self content person..
Graf is about 90%, Williams 86%, big difference!! But Seles was 92% pre stabbing. May well have been the GOAT had she not got stabbed.
Yes since playing until you are nearly 40 (Williams) is the same as retiring at 30 (Graf). What a joke. Watch Graf play until 40 and see what her win percentage is. And your Monica stat is even more ridiculous as it was all before she was 20 when most womens playes typically peak, Graf, Evert, Hingis, and Serena (well before 22 for Serena) included. Plus the big hitters in womens tennis like the Williams, Davenport, and others had not emerged yet. During her reign Seles's only competition was Graf, who she barely even played. There is no way in hell Seles would keep a 92% win percentage, or Graf would even have a 90% win percentage if she didn't retire at 30.
@@grantgoffin4774 Peak at 20? Odd notion!! To evaluate the merits of your fallacy, check out Serena's stats bythe age of 30. i just did for you , 86.7 approx until 30, 87.7 approx post 30. So using your 'logic' Graf might be even further ahead!!!
@@miketomlin6040 I am sure you like to think one of your great white hopes is the best. It sucks for you to have a black player as GOAT but it is reality so eat it.
Graf was pretty much done when she retired. She had won only 1 slam the 3 years before she retired. She knew it too which is why soon after finally winning another slam (for the first time in nearly 3 years as I said) she retired rather than get beat up by Serena, Venus, and Davenport repeatedly over the coming years. If she continued to play her win ratio would have skyrocketed downturn.
And most female players do hit their absolute peak teens/early 20s.
Graf- all time career peak was 87-89, aged 17 to 20.
Evert- all time career peak was 74-77, aged 19 to 22.
Seles- all time career peak was 90-early 93, aged 16 to 19.
Austin- all time career peak was 79-81, aged 16 to 18.
Serena- all time career peak was late 2001-2003, aged 20 to 22.
Mandlikova- all time career peak was 80-82, aged 17 to 20.
Venus- all time career peak was 2000-2003, aged 19 to 23.'
The list would be endless. The only real exception is Navratilova.
@@grantgoffin4774 Since there are no Black or White people - pre DNA, anti science , racist classifications, you might find more friends at the local Skin tone ancestral proximity to the equator UVR supremacist adaptation meetings than Tennis circles?!
If you want to assess peak performance you will need 500 or so, then a lot of data crunching. Pick 500 at random from the last 50 yrs of top 100 WTA rankings, then feedback. Should keep you busy. ps Serena's stats were marginally better circa 2014-17, than 2001-3. Aged 33-36.
@@grantgoffin4774 youre making it a race thing? Yugoslavians have been thru way more suffering and oppression than black people since the 90s. Monica isnt some rich white girl with rich parents in a rich country.
Also ur whole argument about peaks is stupid because ur assuming peaks are the only time anyone wins anything. If we only count a players 2 best years then monica still wins more than serena. When did serena win 7 out of 8 slams in a row? Never. Just like serena won almost all of her slams outside of her "prime" that you gave her, so would monica. Monica won in 7 out of 8 slams in a row against graff before the incident. Even if ur saying monica wouldve already started declining graff was even further away from her peak and dominating. We can safely say monica wouldve won most if not all of graffs titles.
She would have dominated the world of women’s tennis and made her history for long time. Who am I doubting? You know!
Poor Seles. She won 8 GS. All consecutive win 3 RG, 3 AO & 2 USO. But they blocked her steps. Even they let the criminal live free & unjailed. Truly unjustice law. Dirty politic. It gave her trauma & never want to play in germany anymore. She lost her prime times 3 years. Respect the greatest, Monica Seles
wow i just love how you edited that with monica seles’s first appearance in the clip on the voice over phrase “… she had a blip in the middle”…………simply powerful stuff!
STEFFI GRAF 6-4 PRIOR TO THE PAPER CUT, 4-1 AFTER THE BUFFET. Steffi was dominating Seles, Seles simply had the easier draws in that time hence made it to the finals more. What stupid people fail to mention are a few things. 1, most players figured Seles out, her unbending two-handing everything, and they went at her. It's that simple. 2. She won one more slam, proving she was still the same player. However, her huge weakness was figured out. 3. It happens in ALL sports: baseball, basketball, football, boxing, hockey, gymnastics, TENNIS, etc., where someone does great a year, two, a few, then drop. IT. HAPPENS. But stupidity is what most Seles fans educate themselves with so you create your 'stories.' Steffi is The GOAT, no screams and howls needed--as in the Williams, who did it just to annoy and distract their competition. 4. They did the correct, right and professional thing. You don't play, you can't keep your spot. You expect the traffic to be stuck all day because the lead car needs to change all it's tires, all it's lights, the starter, etc? Get a brain, people. Lastly, Steffi also had to deal with a few physical/medical problems and mental issues (her dad's legal problems). What if she hadn't, what if...what if...
Seles was better than Graf at the time she got stabbed.
Never was the same after that stabbing.
Think people need to check the facts before slating Graf, she went to see her in hospital straight away FFS.
Graf went to see her in hospital ONCE, as stated in Monica's book. Neither did Graf vote to have Monica's no. 1 ranking frozen till her return to the tour. The very LEAST Graf could do was to visit Monica in hospital straight away, so are we meant to be bowled over by her kindness?
It would not surprise me that this Gunter Parch guy was just hired by the Graf family. Seles was stabbed in the back three times. By Parch, by the WTA and by the German judge. Shame on Germany
Judge was as crazy as Seles' attacker..
Monica the best !!
I'm sure Monica Seles, she'd be the best tennis player ever, if she hadn't been stabbed by a fan since Steffy Graf.
And the saddest part was the back-stabbing criminal did not get any punishment!!!
Isn't it strange ? Isn't it injustice ? How come ?
@@akapela2343 you'll have to ask the German court...
@@katerinadicamella it's such big dark. So I dont wanna know more. Shame on them. Let it be their sin forever. It's the worst scandal in tennis history or even sport
Monica was the Larry Bird of tennis.
she would've won a double-digit's worth of grand slams...and I tend to think she would've figured out how to win Wimbledon, once. My observation is, when you strike the ball as hard as she did...as deceptively as she did...as early as she did...along with all the angles that she threw at you to pull you off the court..the sky was the limit for her. I figure, she would've won something like 5-6 more grand slams in the 2 years-plus, she was away.
for me, it was the most terrifying thing Ive ever seen happen in sports, let alone, professional tennis. And I think a lot of us are to blame for minimizing exactly what happened to her, because it was so creepy and sinister...we PREFER saying she was stabbed..as if to lessen the grief of it all. But the raw truth is, this psycho who stabbed her?...WAS TRYING TO KILL HER. You dont do what he did to her, to try and injure her...he was attempting to murder her in broad daylight. And another detail that gets lost in the shuffle of this tragedy, is how he was nearly about to stab her again, had she not turned to face him, as he was raising this 9 inch blade above his head WITH BOTH HANDS, for crying out loud.
I saw the damn match...and I remember, vivdly, being paralyzed with fear, when I figured out what was happening to her, after I heard her scream....I couldnt move. And I could tell that the tennis officials who came to her rescue, were completely thrown off and in shock as well. After all, this was the one-off of all one-offs. Its the only time Ive ever seen Magdelena Maleeva, play a tennis match...and its a match I couldn't watch again, if I tried. I was a BIG Seles fan. And I got kinda emotional when she came back and won another Australian Open in '96.
Monica had the only game that Graf had issues with in early 1990's -- the power game. I think that is what ultimately what pushed Graf to retire in 1999, just too many new power players coming into the game (Davenport, Williams sisters, etc.) who she couldn't just dominate with her forehand anymore. The climb for Graf was going to be much steeper in the years to come.
Sebastian Vettel won formula 1 from 2010 to 2013 . Quite a sensation he was . After that he simply went medicore .
True. 4 straight titles with Red Bull and then mediocrity with Ferrari. Strange how his career went from the promise of becoming the best to years of struggle and trying to keep up with Hamilton and the group.
@@HalftimeRoomies Who was the last Ferrari Champion? That tells you all about this story, nothing to do with Vettel.
Lol ur comparing tennis to f1?? A sport where only 2 people in the world are in the best car and the rest have a disadvantage. Had vettel been in mercedesin 2014-21 he wouldve had up to 12 titles. Totally different types of sport
@@vincenzofranchelli2201 Not necessarily. Yes car has its advantage but Vettel did loose his charm somewhere.
@@nehajha7431 you mean Vettel once had charm??
Im sure that Graf and Seles would both have numbers that look a lot like Evert Navratilova.
Couldn't help but have to say that Serbia produce the greatest tennis players in bot men and women. However, Seles an American citizen for a long time but was born in Serbia. Had she was not stabbed she would become the GOAT but was denied. I'm glad that Novak Djokovic is safe and he is on his way to raise himself further upwards than Federer and Nadal before he retires. He is GOAT and Seles the denied GOAT but still the greatest teenage tennis player of all times.
@Max E I don't hate Germany. Infact, I love Germany.
Agree. However the fact is today they are slowly trying to block Novak by vaccine rules. Now Novak starts to lose some tournaments & much points. Even Novak is not really interested to be GOAT anymore
@@akapela2343 yes, he rather have integrity than titles. The BBC's interview explained everything I need to understand best about Novak. I'm more proud of him than ever before.
I am a huge Graf fan.......I didn't know about the stabbing until years later....but now that i watch some of Seles' matches against Graf..... Seles was just on another level at the age she was competing. Graf was already 24 when the stabbing happened ....so Graf would have won a few more Grand Slams but Seles would have given her a run for her money or would have most of the Grand Slams. I would give totally the advantage to Seles just because of her powerful two handed strokes ...... Graf had no answer for that. She would really get frustrated..... 8 Slams by 19 yrs. .....Damn!!!
I am not Steffi Graf fans.. mostly l love to see her rival arise n stop her domination that time..Seles one of my favourite n very sad to see the incident that ruined her tennis journey
I watch a lot of historic women's tennis matches on CZcams. I do this because my granddaughters are competitive tennis players. I knew of Seles but when I started watching her matches I was amazed. She truly was like a steamroller smashing her competition. Nick Bollettieri said he went to see her practice when she was a young teen and could hear her from several courts away. When he saw her power and effort he said it was jaw dropping. He'd never seen anything like it.
It wasn't the Williams sisters that revolutionized the WTA into the modern power game, it was the petite hurricane of Monica Seles.
If she was never stabbed Seles would have 20 slams minimum and Graf like 16
Agree. Pam Shiver & Martina Navratilova said so
If the ancident was not occured ,the Stefi Graff carrier has to be end.
Seles would’ve dethroned her utterly, She was the evolution in tour style of play.