The Problem With Hunger In Minecraft
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
- Minecraft is a game beloved by most, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's issues. In this video, I'm going to discuss why I think Hunger is Minecraft's WORST ever addition.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
3:37 Chapter 1: It's Not All Bad
6:24 Chapter 2: When Was The Last Time You Starved?
8:15 Chapter 3: Sprinting Is Broken
13:00 Chapter 4: The Solution
Tags:
minecraft, lucid, thelucidletters, lucid letters, hunger, hunger system, golden age minecraft, beta 1.7.3, old school minecraft, themisterepic, antvenom, steve minecraft, steve op, steve broken, caves and cliffs, the wild update, mob vote, minecraft crab, minecraft penguin, minecraft armadillo, game design, minecraft critique, serious critique of minecraft, aquatic update, nostalgia, minecraft nostalgia, minecraft video essay, fitmc, salc1, 2b2t, minecraft retrospective, hunger bad - Hry
I genuinely HATE the idea of nerfing the sprint by giving it a cooldown. That just makes exploration twice as tedious because you're twice as slow as you would be.
+ PvP will be even slower
nobody used to say exploration was boring before sprinting was added. he brought this up in the video when talking about caving
@@evening_awning I say exploration was boring before sprinting was added... Because it was.
@@lasercraft32 subjective i guess. i say the atmosphere and challenge outweigh potential boredom
@@lasercraft32nah its relaxing and inspiring.. now days is just meaningless and u forget abt anything u see the millisecond it leave the screen
"It's a good thing you guys aren't designing ultrakill or it would suck" - Hakita
Did not have to do that to him 💀
implying he is good
@@nukeplayer2847well hakita had a hand in every part of ultrakill so i’d say he’s pretty good
@@enderguardian7443 ultramid is overrated sir
Not in the slightest@@nukeplayer2847
While I agree with some of your points, your solutions are debatably even more flawed than the current implementation.
- Instant heal foods would make players that farm the good healing food nearly unkillable in combat when paired with armor.
- Alternatively, if you can only use the food for healing when not at full hunger, then you create an unwinnable situation due to natural regeneration being removed, as any mistake can result in an unavoidable death.
- Starvation killing in a mere 10 seconds or less depending on difficulty is just punishing the player for not filling their inventory with food, which makes any other task substantially more tedious.
- Sprinting only being allowed in bursts would make exploration a slog, especially when certain resources are restricted to specific biomes.
- Your alternative solution then makes sprinting even more overpowered with the existence of xp farms, where making something like a raid farm would result in an easy several minutes of sprint time with minimal impact on any other resource.
All in all, both systems are flawed... and there's no definitive "best solution" for the problems at hand.
While the vanilla solution is not very interesting or challenging, many mods and attempts to change this system not only result in a game that is more tedious to play, but simultaneously screws over a large chunk of the playerbase.
In my opinion Mojang hunger system isn't as bad as he makes it out to be ,it gets the player to progress throughout the game and it makes its goal less tedious to do so.
Just discussing one of your points here, because your other points are more reasonable.
I think that's the point of Starvation... it's supposed to be a punishment and it's already a punishment to this day-- just a negligible one that it might as well not exist.
You are exaggerating quite a lot when it comes to "filling their inventory with food", because the change suggested in the video doesn't force the Player AT ALL to bring more food than they do currently, it only makes Players more aware of the punishment as it is more significant and something that actually matters.
If anything; Players would deplete LESS Hunger now that Saturation is removed with his suggestion (presumably), because Saturation depletes the most amount of Hunger by far with the way it currently works, so they would actually bring less food contrary to your observation.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38
Saturation doesn't deplete hunger.
Saturation is a secondary hidden hunger bar.
Each food restores a set amount of hunger and saturation with saturation needing to be fully depleted before hunger starts being consumed.
With the way that saturation currently works, removing it would make people burn through hunger faster.
i absolutely agree with you but i just want to point out that he mentioned in the video that the spriting time caps out at 10 seconds 15:51.
honestly this, some of the changes suggested are so harsh it almost feels like the person making the video is far too familiar with the game and doesnt take casual or first time experiences into account. playing on easy is already far too daunting for me and these suggested changes would make me straight up not want to play unless i heavily mod the game
15:23 Yeeeah... people would absolutely hate this change. XD
You have to remember sprinting is not just for combat, it's also for exploring and going around your base in general. Although, looking at it objectively, imagining it was like this from the beginning and ignoring the systhem that we're used to, it probably *is* a better system. People would use horses a lot more.
Only if they didn't render horses unusable in water. Once you hit any body of water, you are automatically dismounted.
@@UsagiArwen Oh, yeah, that's annoying.
@@theskull1030Horses are already way faster than the player sprinting and they can carry a chest for auxiliary inventory.
@@DarkLord30199 you couldn't pay me enough to use the horses in Minecraft. Even without sprinting. You can't take them through any spaces that is less than two blocks wide, can't take them through water deeper than one block, can't risk taking them through deep snow where they could get killed if they fell through one of those blocks that trick you into thinking you could walk on them. And even if you just use a rope to walk them, that severely limits how fast you can go and you have to keep checking to make sure they didn't get dropped from your lead. No thank you.
It is true though that all forms of transport besides sprinting, boats, and the elytra, are totally obsolete. Make minecarts faster, make horses faster and able to swim (or at least get in a boat or something)
Making food heal hearts instead of supplementing the regen effect is far more broken. With food stackable, you'd have unlimited instant heals instead of passive regen. It doesnt fix hunger
Well the point is now food options matter more and makes eating more engaging to the player. And they aren't instant since it takes time to eat, so eating in combat isn't suitable. Besides, if it is too broken, Mojang [or your server owner] can always just rebalance the food to heal less.
@@jstcb My comment was a response to the video creator saying current food should heal hearts, not the hunger bar. Given food is stackable, that would be beyond broken.
@@ContentCreature you mean at 13:17 ?
@@jstcb idk the timestamp, i havent rewatched the video cause i dont agree with the complaints of the hunger system being made
originally, food WASN'T stackable (aside from cookies, I believe?) That was also a reason cake was so good.
Complains about eating wasting time, then proposes sprint delay which does the same thing
Exactly, this video is so stupid lmao.
Imagine being so mentally handicapped that you couldn't understand what he was going for. The point he was trying to make is that he wants sprinting to be more of a last resort instead of something to over rely on which is what his solution does. I'm not entirely sold on the idea but I can totally see what he was going for.
@@EngiGODS358 the exploration aspect will suffer
@@out1am977 Yes I can see that but even then there are work arounds. Horses? Minecarts? I mean come on now.
@@EngiGODS358 getting saddles and iron will prove to be a difficult challenge with these game mechanics. im sure that someone could make a better version of this
Yes, the food problem is really easy to fix even in the first day but y'all need to keep in mind that Minecraft is supposed to be pretty casual. Like I remember in a video sometime after the food addition to Minecraft, there was people saying that the hunger was a bad addition not because of everything you said but because they didn't know how to handle food properly and were always lacking food.
I mean sure, but difficulty options exist for a reason, you aren't exactly saying you want a casual experience when you pick hard mode you know
@@winter945 you're correct on that, hard difficulty in minecraft is also in my opinion too simple but to actually make the game hard so many things would have to be changed that it wouldn't even look like minecraft anymore. Changing the hunger system wouldn't be enough.
@@wolfbenmind7318*cough* *cough* Gregtech New Horizons.
Casual doesn’t just mean easy. Casual games can be hard they just do certain things
One thing to keep in mind was that, when hunger was added, animal breeding had not been added yet
Good vid and I agree with all your points relating to challenge and risk vs reward but you left out the biggest reason why player don't want to part with sprinting. Without sprinting getting around takes SO LONG, you could argue that setting up minecarts or getting a horse is part of the challenge but it's more an issue of fun for me. I do not miss walking for 10+ minutes to get to a far away mine/forest like back in the old days.
honestly I don't think its an issue of sprinting being too strong, but the mobs being too weak. Other games change the speed of enemies with difficulty, why can't Minecraft?
sprint key is probably screaming honestly
Getting around does not take 'SO LONG' without sprinting. I'm sorry. But if you play any version without sprinting for maybe three minutes you'd immediately realize how desensitized you were.
That is what happened the first time I played an old version after awhile, I was so hesitant. Thinking: How and why do people like these versions? You can't even sprint? Until I decided to just give it a go and play, I realized it actually wasn't bad but instead brought a whole new atmosphere and revitalized an aspect into my Minecraft gameplay that'd been missing for over half a decade. The fear and suspense that it brought along with it all-the-while giving it a sense of calm that is missing from modern Minecraft.
I don't want to sound like an old person but it is true.
TLDR: Just go give the old versions a try, it isn't bad at all. You're (Most Likely) just desensitized.
@@Vorcupine Cool that you enjoy it but there's no fear or anything for me, just a long commute. In old minecraft I'd just put torches all along my walking path to places so there'd be no chance of a monster ambush, and most times I'd go places during the day so no zombies or skeletons anyways. So to me it has always been... just a walk. And I'd rather sprint than walk.
@@Vorcupine no one else enjoys running like a snail
I can't agree with the levels being tied to sprinting idea. Levels aren't only a thing you collect and lose when you die, you use them to enchant which is an almost necessary part of any survival playthrough and getting good enchantments can be expensive. The only way to get levels consistently is by some kind of grind, which means the player would be forced to go back to their grinder after they just spent a while at it trying to get good enchantments just so their sprint wouldn't be affected
you've left a giant cliffhanger here, very interested to see videos about the other 3 broken aspects, but too bad you upload loads of unrelated content since then, that gives me low confidence you'll make those videos
I feel like you're kind of missing the forest for the trees a little bit here. You talked about how stopping to eat is a tedious and meaningless task, how you basically have health regen all the time because it's so easy to get food, and how op sprinting is because you can just run away from most mobs given enough space, but in my opinion all those factors add together to create a perfectly fine system.
It's true that you have health regen whenever you're full on food, but if you're regenerating health, that means your saturation goes down until you aren't regenerating anymore, so it's really not the same as having health regen all the time. While in a vacuum you can just eat and get the regen back, if you've taken enough damage that you have to eat again, chances are you're fighting monsters and don't have the luxury of standing still to eat. This is the situation where the temporary lag in eating becomes significant, getting to a safe spot in order to patch yourself back up before heading back into the fight, or even desperately trying to find a moment of respite to eat while having only half a heart left. Getting to the third point about sprinting, again in a vacuum it's true you could just run far enough away in a straight line to eat safely, but in my experience at least, most of my encounters with monsters are in caves while mining and exploring rather than on the surface at night time (one could even make the argument that beds make night time obsolete). Compared to the surface, caves are much darker and the terrain much less predictable, making it much more difficult to flee from a group of monsters without running into even more that you may not even be able to see. Putting all these together, running around in the darkness trying to find a safe spot in order to eat and maintain your health regen, I think makes for a perfectly enjoyable and challenging gaming experience.
I mean the whole “problem” with hunger is basically that players optimize and farm. You could say that iron is worthless because now you can just find a village and make a golem farm and have unlimited iron. Dont have to fight endermen ever, just make a gold farm and trade with piglins. Mobs might as well not be in the game, you can just sprint away from them, and with the iron farm we set up earlier you can be constantly dripped out in full iron armor so damage is more of a nuisance than a danger
i agree with a lot of your ideas, but this would shift the problem of feeling like time is wasted from eating food, to waiting until your sprint cooldown ends. one of the first things players will do, especially experienced explorative players, is try to find a place to set up base. the suggestion to have *a longer cooldown for sprinting than the length of possible consecutive time* at any point seems boring and slows the game down. also, when does the cooldown start? the set time after starting to sprint, or the cumulative time spent sprinting since the last cooldown ended?
i dont think these ideas are bad, but i think they could use tinkering and streamlining.
having several extra hidden cooldown variables adds needless complexity. i think the cooldown should be scrapped. switch the "ability" type sprinting to a simple hunger/sprint time correlation. 2-6 seconds of sprinting = 1/2 drumstick. length of time sprinting with xp seems like a good idea, but for players who dont use xp farms, it worsens enchanting things. switch it to days since last sleep (also makes more intuitive sense). player starts with 3 days off the counter (3s per 1/2 stick). sleeping sets it to 6, lowering by one after each full day, to a minimum of 2.
add food types that provide the same hunger value but have less benefits in exchange for the same cost to earn, but take less time to eat. for example, pig farms and cow farms are about equally valuable and easy to set up, but what if steak earned much more instant health than pork - but pork could be eaten more quickly. steak is for a survivalist, but pork is for an explorer. additional nuance / depth.
add slow acceleration to sprinting. makes reactive movement less effective without removing long-distance benefits. this makes steep mountains also feel more like... steep mountains.
add more impactful directional change deceleration. think of apex legends: changing direction mid-sprint drastically reduces speed. make it stronger than that: changing a direction smoothly results in no loss of speed, but doing it even a bit more rapidly does. this also has little effect on long-distance exploration, but makes dodging enemies a lot more difficult. this additionally makes winding caves more methodical to traverse.
both of these would mess with things such as parkour, but that could be overcome by giving yet more benefits to certain food types or other items. perhaps sweeter foods could reduce these value changes even to default for a short time. or maybe these shortcomings only come with heavier armour or more restrictive leggings, allowing again for more nuance. explorers may have a reason to take off their armour, but adventurers will have to be more careful perhaps.
i really loved your video, though. cant wait to see the rest of the series.
The way I've been thinking about it in terms of cooldowns, is just to look at other games. I don't have much to where to pull from, but what I have observed is that energy fills out by itself (at a reasonable pace) the moment you stop performing taxing activities. As for suggestions, you could still be limited by your xp level or total hunger or etc. but that just limits the max time allowed to perform those activities in one go. Some foods/potions could remove this restriction temporarily as an *status effect*, which would make players strategize to use it when they really need it AND wouldn't handicap parkour [maps]. I really like the acceleration and directional adjusting "tax" suggestions btw.
@@zetsphiron Awesome to here some of the ideas you have! definitely I agree, as mentioned, that restricting the total uptime for sprint just totally limits exploration. having ways to reimagine the current system seems like a much better idea than implimenting a new one that totally restricts what Minecraft offers to explorers in favour of what it offers to grinders, which seems like a flawed mindset suggested in the original video. I really like the idea that potions could have effects that actually change the way some of the systems work, and provide something more than a simplified buff.
Vintage story does THIS so much better.
The crops matter what you grow.
Flax an okay food source in desperate times, but very useful as a way to make clothing
Meat requires risk to hunt bunnies, bears, wolves, raccoons, foxes, and goats of both varieties. Crops take a long time, slowly grow if granted got the right soil type.
Meat requires the risk of getting hurt or even killed, but the reward is great as you can get fat for hides or candles.
Once you are out of the stone age, you can have a much easier, time with animals and crops. The crops require rotation, fertilizers, the right nutrition! There's also bees to contend with to help with the crops.
Crops encourage exploration, crops have some level of risk and great rewards. A good example of " why you shouldn't eat them ". Cattails, they can increase your storage in early game, but if desperate, you can eat them and have them as a vegetable, but no more cattails respawning. So you are left with a decision to either continue having them for their utility or food? Nicer armor requires better food saturation to use it! So food and crops are now scaling with the player.
Red meat resources: Bunnies aren't easy to hunt, goats can jump 3 blocks can kill you, pigs are semi-dangerous, but can't jump 2 blocks high.
Bushmeat resources: Bears, raccoons, foxes? and wolves. Bears and wolves are dangerous as it gets. Wolves are dump enough to fall in 2 block pits to hunt a meal, but Bears are a good source of hide, good amount of bush meat, but fat.
Fat can be eaten, but isn't worth eating as it can make much better things like clothes, permanent sources of light, and bear hunting is risky, requires smart trapping, but fun. Also bears can climb ladders... T_T Though can't fit in 1 block places
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but removing sprinting would be such a pain, it would be better if monsters could also sprint under certain circumstances to catch up to you but they can only do it for say 5-10 seconds depending on difficulty
You could also combine that with making you go, or more specifically, *sprint* slower when you have less health.
just use minecarts when u need to travel to places far away, boom problem solved. right now so much of minecarft is not used by players because of op things like sprinting. ever since ive played beta minecarft with no such op things, ive realised why modern minecraft is boring and its because i never actually realize how much minecraft has to offer when i have no need to use things like minecarts
@@verdox0 the problem that is that modern Minecraft has so much more stuff than beta. beta Minecraft is fun, don't get me wrong, it was one of the first versions i played and is probably why i like the game as much as i do, but it is so, so much more empty than modern Minecraft. comparing one of the first versions of a game to the one that's had constant updates for more than a decade isn't exactly fair, especially since beta had such limited features.
minecarts are flawed not only in their poor execution but also in their very limited possibilities and use-cases compared to other modes of travel; they are expensive, require infrastructure which most players don't want to bother with, and are painfully slow. the problem is, no matter how cheap you make them or how fast you make them, minecarts require you to have already traveled to where you want to go, and to make the proper infrastructure to support them which are both things you can't rely on the vast player-base wanting to do. in this way horses work much better as a solution, being essentially the equivalent of sprinting whilst still making the system not as cut and dry, but the "stat" system of the horses is so bad and is so immediately overshadowed by sprinting and the elytra that horses are essentially useless too.
the only reason we used minecarts in beta was because we didn't have sprinting. imagine those people who make those massive, 1000 block wide bases; trying to get anywhere in their base would mean having to take a minecart track, which just sounds stupid and is incredibly inefficient.
sprinting isn't "OP", its just that they never made the proper adjustments to combat and the other modes of travel to make sprinting work. in the grand scheme of the game, sprinting is a really well implemented feature that is balanced really well with the rest of the game, being a modern aspect which makes the game more enjoyable to a wider amount of people without tarnishing the rest of the game, its just that the mob AI is so trash and is implemented so poorly that it means all challenges the monsters once posed was disintegrated, and all other modes of travel (par ice boating and elytra) were made obsolete.
Seasons would be fun. As winter sets in animals spawn less, crops grow slower, and so on.
So just don’t starve together?
@@Potato_Tomato-od2lzor Stardew valley. Lots of games have seasons. Minecraft does the Zelda thing and just makes different biomes that are always the same. It could be interesting what they could do with seasons but far too big of a change to do now.
No. Okay, So..I've played from 2011 to now, and let me tell you, that would be hell. players like me, who create wheat farms to feed other players or simply as our way of food would certainly not want to deal with our crop yield dying every winter, Or having to make some greenhouse for a massive medieval style farm, It would be, For farmers at least, A bit of a hassle to deal with, Especially for food. and would force every player to at least keep some wheat growing to feed to two cows they'd be keeping for winter. This seems like it'd be more fun for a server plugin rather than a whole gameplay style change. Rant over.
Perhaps this can be in a separate mode with this new hunger implementation. It can be named the true survival mode (Or simply just survival mode). While the original survival mode being called the sandbox survival mode as people might still want to sprint better to explore more and build easier. Like a true sandbox but with a survival mechanic. This true survival mode However would be more about trying not to die while beating the game than building.
Call me a alpha boomer but I prefer a No run health food no stack mode. Make beds harder to make. And darkness back to making it truely hard to see. Make shields late game item. I miss mobs being true threats and cave exploration and the first night having intimacy, caution, and atmosphere. Iron being rarer.
May not appreciate it now but after you get a hang of it and look back on your world and all you built; rail way/ice boat paths to skip past monsters, fully lighting up your teratories, your Awsome structures you manage to build to conquer the survival challenge, all the farms, the memories exploring and bringing light to all the places you ventured, ect. You will see this starting makes it all the sweeter.
Good compromise. That’s what they did with the Zombified Piglin.
bruhaps 🗿
It can also have wierd tools and after a giant update will be left for the duat
mods
This would make the game unplayable for anyone who has a busy schedule; keep in mind most of us started playing when we were in elementary, middle, & high school. Some went on to play video games full time like you. for someone who has time to play games scheduled into their week this makes sense! But for someone like me who can only ever play for 20-30 min when i get the chance, id lose the ability to make lay my favorite game. Because i simply couldn’t progress.
Personally I think making sprinting for any more than a couple seconds should make hunger drain much quicker, so you have the choice of quick burst movement, or extended movement at the cost of a lot of hunger. On top of that, it makes sprinting a bit more realistic, since you have to take breaks from it to not burn out quickly. Sprinting irl is a really fast, really short distance travel.
you gotta take in mind that Steve can carry a lot, and I mean a lot of universes worth of weight in his pockets CASUALLY
Full Inventory of Shulkers filled with gold blocks weighs around 9 billion kilograms. But he's supposed to break into a nonsense out of breath period every few meters?
@@K1NG_of_ReVeNGe1 By your logic, we should remove all damage from the game (there is no reason mobs should be strong enough to damage a man who can lift 9 billion kilograms). Also, have it so that every step he takes causes the nearest 1500 chunks to sink into the bedrock (he weighs more than 9 billion kilograms).
@@curlyfordoge4366
My logic, as obvious as it is, is a counter to that dudes "more realistic".
The game isn't realistic in many aspects, and thats were the fun lies with most games. Minecraft is not a real life simulation. Bringing in a mechanic that would just slow down and annoy a majority of the playerbase for "realism" sake is invalid, simple as that
Obsidian's Grounded is a great example of these ideas done right. In Grounded, Sprint is omnidirectional and tied to a stamina meter, but you also consume stamina by attacking, so there's a balancing act to it. You also NEED to fight enemies because most of them are larger and faster than you. As for hunger, it uses the same regen based on hunger system as minecraft, but most food isnt stackable, raw food poisons you, and cooked food will actually rot and go bad if its in your inventory for too long. It makes potions FAR more valuable since they can stack AND they dont go bad. It even has the "hunger vs health restoration" variance you talked about.
I don't think hunger completely goes away once you have enough food. If you rarely take damage, you'll find yourself only eating when you can't sprint. Careless players will find themselves wasting time eating more often, and brave players will gladly run around with half health to save time.
Saturation, while being an absolute trainwreck of conveyance, provides tiny meaningful choices. Maybe I'm alone here, but whenever I'm expecting combat I pack golden carrots to increase restoration.
It ties in to inventory management. How much food are you carrying on that trip? Do you expect to fight? Do you have emergency food or some health potion in hand? All that provided the player is experienced and knows what they're doing
One thing that would help with the sprinting issue is just.. make mobs better.
Zombies know how to get in your way rather than moving directly towards you? And they can grab you and give you slowness IV for a couple of seconds? And if they manage to combo you a few times it's considered a bite which is a big, big, possibly deadly problem even if you get away or kill them.
Skeletons know how to aim at someone not only moving but juking side to side and jumping around, and if you have a shield, they'll switch to a wooden axe and come in to disable it, or if they're in a group, deliberately try to surround you.
Spiders can shoot temporary cobwebs to slow you down, are always venomous on hard difficulty, can jump intelligently to bypass hills or gaps, and can keep up with a sprinting player, and bounce around, in and out of melee range and behind you so much that they're harder to hit than a rabbit.
Creepers are deliberately sneaky, trying to stay out of line of sight, and can leap at you with their fuse ticking, giving you a very short time to escape.
All mobs avoid your cursor like the plague and will attempt to sidestep projectiles they're aware of.
That all sounds brutal, I love it.
Some of these ideas are really great, but a lot of them are beyond a bit much, mainly the ideas revolving around evasion. There's a reason why people hate phantoms and baby zombies. They are super annoying and difficult to hit.
The spiders in this suggestion are especially bad. It's bad enough that fighting them would be like trying to hit a fly, making them an extreme version of a baby zombie, but adding additional strong abilities on top of that almost makes it look like you're trying to make them so op that even those who aren't arachnophobic cower in fear. Also, making them all venomous on hard difficulty makes them practically unstoppable when combined with evasion. And even if you kill the spider, you're still trapped and poisoned, making you an easy target for other mobs.
@@camrynmcmartin5151 Regarding spiders, I feel like discarding the evasion and the bouncing ideas could be decent, that and having hard mode's "spiders always poisonous" be a toggle that switches off their web shooting ability. Or, if you want to keep some of those things, reduce their health so that they're a high-priority target with low health, sort of like evokers
The Recipe Book, Eye of Ender, and Copper Ingot caught my eye.
I'm guessing you'll show us how the game in a sense requires wikis and guides due to almost zero information being presented to the player in-game.
Not too sure what the Eye will represent besides The End in general? The dimensional system as a whole? Maybe it's more figurative and it's about the way we see the game or something. 😅
I could see the Copper Ingot representing mining in general but I'm leaning towards an examination of the way Mojang often adds new content that feels inherently "other" and disparate to its contemporaries.
Either way you deserve orders of magnitude more subscribers here. I don't like the idea of sprinting becoming a pseudo-dash but your reasoning and the comments here have piqued my interest in versions of Minecraft where you can't sprint. I won't knock it until I try it, but I feel like most games have you move too slow relative to the map's size/proportions.
In games like DUSK I can have fun literally running and jumping in a circle when there's no enemies around because the movement just feels nice. Maybe I'm talking with a Discord friend about something that takes more of my concentration than most conversations. It's nice when a game gives you more tools for self-expression in movement and combat and, for lack of a better phrase, ADHD buttons.
If we lost sprinting in Minecraft an empty well with a parkour route spiraling up the inside would be less interesting to look at. If we had a dash with a cooldown, the design of such a thing would be limited in terms of speedrunning scope. Any gap that requires a dash would need to be [cooldown] number of seconds away from the next gap that requires a dash. Otherwise the would-be runner up would always catch up to first place while they wait for the cooldown to end.
When I build something in Minecraft 9 times out of 10 I include a way to get up on top, but not designed in a way that looks climbable. I like to incorporate an invisible parkour route that winds around and appears naturally integrated into the structure. Maybe you have to jump off a nearby hill to halfway up a wall to get started, or maybe an apparently decorative trapdoor has a function after all. Without sprinting, these would have to be way less subtle.
I interpreted the Eye of Ender as a symbol for the "progression" of the game.
Not only is the Eye of Ender the key to the End, which is exactly what it says on the tin in terms of game progression, it's foundational to driving other aspects that are key to the game progression, namely entering the Nether and finding a Nether Fortress for Blaze Rods.
And it would fit, since Minecraft's progression, whether you're talking about mining, or the "story," SUCK.
I personally think one way of fixing the hunger-healing issue would be by introducing Hard Damage. Like RADS in Fallout, it's damage that limits your health permanently unless certain time limits or parameters are met. This could probably give Wither a more unique identity than just "Poison that actually kills you" by having poison give no hard damage, but Wither replace each heart taken away with hard damage that is peskier to remove. Maybe Instant Damage potions could add Instant Hard Damage also, but the Hard Damage is reduced with armor points, or the damage itself is reduced but the Hard Damage remains, so once those hearts are lost they're harder to get back.
Sprinting also could be improved by giving mobs faster movement options like dashes and jumps, as well as updating their AI to be more complex, Spiders used to be a real menace before their IQ was lowered. On top of that, I'd like to add penalties for Sprinting like, idk Cramping! Each second you spend Sprinting after a certain amount of time briefly slows you down and damages you, having the benefits of sprinting drop off after a while, being actually harmful, and requiring more recovery time after you stop, adding consequences.
I'd also think adding sprint ramp up and fall off could be interesting, so you don't start with a mad dash but rather gradually build up to it, but maybe that could be a different movement option. Maybe Running, Sprinting, Dashing and Jogging could all be different forms of movement with unique use cases and limitations, but that's maybe a little too out there.
That's just my thoughts. Minecraft is really a half flesh all bone game at the moment and I feel like Mojang's forgotten that and think the game and its mechanics are complete and all that's needed is little DLC like additions and not Overhauls seeing as how the last Overhaul of a Core Mechanic was taken, or additions and changes to the core.
Poison for parrots already kills them too
The RADS idea seems interesting
I agree with almost everything other than the sprinting change. Most of the time I spend sprinting is getting from point A to point B, so while the change would change combat, for the everyday player, it becomes a hindrance.
as a ReIndev player , I can confirm that this is so right u cant even imagine
THE CORRECT VERSION (BEST VERSION)
@@LucidMakesVideosalso the perfect version lol
@@LucidMakesVideoscan you talk about Barik from Paladins?
@@pixeldcat No not at all
@@someonecalledrichardthehuman idk its rlly good tho
Very interesting video! I do agree that the hunger system could be a little bit more involved, I would love for a reason to have a varied diet, which would get the player to engage with different systems. I do not agree with having hunger kill at all levels of difficulty though. People that choose easy are more likely looking for a low stress, almost creative-lite experience, and forcing them to be in danger when they clearly don't want it is denying them of the experience they opted into when choosing that difficulty. You want hunger to have higher stakes, and thats great! But 'easy' is literally the setting for players that do not want that.
imagine mojang adds thirst and you need to boil river water first or else it gives you poison effect, and drinking sea water makes you more thirsty
using the crafting guidebook as the symbol for one of the "major fundamental problems" for minecraft gives me a really bad feeling about the next video in this series, as crafting, and the crafting guide, are one of the things to receive the most fixes and polish over time and is in a near perfect state at the moment (the only remaining problem being no wood in stonecutters, thats how far minecraft has come)
ngl a lot of this kinda struck me as like a "minecraft boomer" like it was all better in pre-alpha ect ect so everything that came after should be reverted
@@beboparc2378 I've played minecraft with some of those old mechanics back then. It was awful.
I agree with most of these points except for the sprinting changes. The worst thing you can do is make a player feel slow. And with the stamina system you suggested, people would still sprint to travel, they would just get interrupted every three seconds and feel frustrated. I think a much better solution would be to keep sprinting exactly as it is, but change the speed of certain mobs depending on difficulty. For example, on easy mode, a zombie would remain the speed they are now so that players can run away from combat. But on normal and hard, a zombie could run the same speed as a player, forcing the player to either fight or find a more creative way to escape like blocking off the zombies if theyre in a cave
This would make Minecraft more fun for a lot of players but I just doesn't go well with my play style. I don't play MC like a survival game, I play it like a sandbox game where I can build huge Mansions, machines, farms, etc. But I don't want to play in Creative mode because it feels less rewarding.
I think your way of playing wouldn’t be effected much but rather the way you go about achieving it would be different. You’d set up infrastructure to make getting resources more efficient rather than putting on tunes running 500-1000 blocks and mining endlessly. It’s overall more engaging and arguably more rewarding. However that is from my perspective yours may be very different
This change would only make playing the game *even more* rewarding, yes-- even for you because you still care about feeling rewarded after all.
This doesn't really make the game THAT much different from right now to the point where you need to have a completely different playstyle to adapt.
The only real change here really is that you aren't able to sprint for a long time, but this doesn't mean you don't have an option to go from point A to point B in the same speed because Horses are still as fast as before, the only difference with them with this change is that they are actually relevant features.
Really, it's just a matter of conditioning and getting used to it.
Because a lot of people HATED 1.9 but nobody bats an eye about it today, only small discussions about it.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38until you realize how flawed horses are. Making any longer exploration an complete pain in the ass with them. And going from a set place A to B with minecart A long boring and to me not very fun grind
Also it kinda reiforces some builds such as farms onto player.
And if you have to create something , you might as well make it the way you like.
So it kinda encourages you to build more dtuff with a purpose.
So it limits you and tasking you.
And as we all know , limitations breed creativity.
Happy new year!
Not exactly limitations CAN breed creativity but not always.
Yeah, can't say I agree on those takes, aside from the addition of more usefulness and variety for foods. All of those problems, IMO, can be explained by how familiar with Minecraft you're.
Sure, food is easy to find out in early game, provided you *know what you're looking for.* I think everyone who's watching this video has decent knowledge of the game and its mechanics. Heck, if we're talking about such an old feature of the game, we might as well call ourselves veterans. But that's the thing, what is obvious and second nature to us, might not be for new players.
I think the hunger bar works as intended. It's linked to the health bar and the sprint ability, but you also gotta consider inventory management. How much time do I plan to spend on the mine? Do I have enough torches? Do I have enough food? Going on a trip? You gotta factor that in too. If you want to elevate the stakes, you can make it more punishing, but I'd argue that's what Hard and Hardcore modes are for. Hunger management is something you develop as you play the game more. Sometimes you want to keep the bar full at all times, sometimes you can afford to keep it just halfway.
And on the sprinting part I really got an issue, because it needlessly punishes the player. I don't just sprint into a dark cave, I don't know what mobs are inside or how the terrain is, plus you can miss an ore vein. The first descent into a mine is always slow and steady, unless you find a shaft or a ravine, then you still thread carefully so you don't end lost. And what if I have good reflexes? Should I not be rewarded by learning the game mechanics? During combat in open areas, it's common to get mobbed by zombies, the full sprint gives the player an option to get away to safety, but before that the player has to consier fighting that horde to begin with, how much health they have, how much *food* they have, should things go south. And even with all of that, you can still get tapped by a Creeper. Might as well remove armor since it gives the player a lot of protection.
And again, I think I get where this criticism is coming from. After some time, things get repetitive and doing your hundreth wheat farm is probably an automatic thing, especially if you know how to automate it. But so is every other task on the game, and I don't want to walk all the way to the mine/ravine 500 blocks away, or get there by sprint bursts. If I wanted to avoid that, I would be forced to make a railway... Which is basically removing agency from the player. Sure, sprinting as-is might be more cost efficient, but it doesn't stops players from making railways just because they feel like it.
I don't want to be mean or some kind of purist, the game could use some tweaks and overhauls in their most core and old mechanics (looking at you, wolf AI), but the hunger ain't it.
I think the main issue with Hunger System currently (ignoring the whole Sprinting Mechanic for now) is that it's simply unengaging, boring and just a hindrance to the survival AND sandbox experience, yes it works as intended (nobody says it doesn't) but that doesn't mean it's a well implemented fun mechanic.
Since we are talking about game familiarity; I would also use this to say that you, me and everyone is all too conditioned to the way it works that some doesn't even see just how objectively kinda bad it's implemented.
Who knows, if the way it works in the videos is how it worked in the beginning; we probably wouldn't even have videos and discussions about it and ultimately have a more fleshed out and nuanced experience with the game's mechanics.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38 I still don't see why people find it unengaging? It pushes the player to manage resources, inventory and think of a good way to have a steady food supply, all while engaging with other game mechanics. And what part of the hunger implementation is "objectively bad"? I feel like this is dipping a bit into the "Modern Minecraft is bad" trend, which is a valid discussion but definitely hinges on nostalgia glasses. Again, I think the food system could use some tweaks to make it more flavourful (heh) but other than that it's splitting hairs.
@@sparking023 An objectively better hunger system is something that matches well with the game's slow pacing and longevity of each play time, as well as making use of the wide variety of food it has; rather than only 4 out of 20+ Food items being actually usable.
Also 1.11+ PvP (especially PvE) is shit because of how broken the Saturation effect it, that alone makes the current system extremely flawed, not just "no system is perfect" kind of flawed.
If you feel like my whole thing about matching pacing is vague, I'm talking about how often you have to eat and get slowed down extremely often which serves as nothing but an interruption most of the time, and most of the time; you don't fight mobs where eating makes sense.
I don't advocate hunger to be removed completely at all, it needs to actually reward eating in an interesting way and not just overpowered regeneration III (I have like 7k word document crafting a better system for this)
And no it doesn't really do a good job of pushing the player to engage in its system (it even disengages players from using regen and healing potions).
Choosing between a whole stack of steak or a whole stack of golden carrot is not at all interesting, nor are putting cows in a single hole and waiting for some seed to grow (that came from a block that you see the first time you load in a world) to have an easy infinite food suply before you even get ful iron tools.
Believe it or not; I want a DRASTIC change within Minecraft and that includes Hunger System and things about Mending, so "nostalgia glasses" simply doesn't apply to me...
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38 dude, it takes five, maybe ten seconds to fill your hunger bar, depending on which food you have. Unless you're speed running, I don't see how this is such a game breaking issue. Again, we're splitting hairs here. I do agree that having different usage for different food types is appealing, I don't know how it would work, but it's a nice thing that could be improved. The saturation could be nerfed, yes.
But then you say it somehow disengages the player from using regen and healing potions, as if we already didn't use them in specific situations or emergencies. Like, I don't know, fighting one of the bosses where you need that extra boost and can't afford to spend 10 seconds filling your hunger bar. Oh look, a reason to use potions instead of food. And then we have all the other potions, with their very specific uses that the player might probably never touch. Not because the food regen is too broken, but because they just don't see a reason to spend time and resources into something like Night Vision or Jump Boost.
The fact you mentioned putting a bunch of cows being crammed into a single square tells me you're pretty deep in how the game works. That's not the same for new players, they'll figure things out as they play. Again, I'm not saying the hunger system is flawless, but it is not as bad as you or the guy in the video are making it to be.
@@sparking023 It doesn't matter if it takes 3 seconds to fill up your hunger bar, the point is; it's there to interrupt gameplay of anything meaningful and it happens often.
And all that time lost accumulates too, all without any kind of interesting gameplay tied with it, only acting as a hindrance most of the time and as an unbalanced healing item removing most kinds of threats in the time where it makes sense to be used.
And since you are considering new players in this, that's *even more* reason why potions like healing and regen wouldn't be touched even if they look up a tutorial for it, simply because an item that you can get essentially for free early game does that job better and with more quantity too.
Anyways the potion argument is more of an extra, not the point of contention here.
But all in all, Hunger System is functional and serviceable sure but it doesn't change the fact that it's pretty bad and doesn't interact well with most of the game, and most are just too conditioned and too familiar with it to not see how much better off we would be with a new Hunger System in place.
I really enjoyed your fundamental understanding of game design and was really looking forward to the follow up videos. I was kinda sad to see they haven't been made. Is it still planned? I have slightly different core views on what minecraft is/should be but I am really interested in how you see it.
Honestly my issue with hunger is that everything surrounding it is lackluster.
There's no real progression or depth in making the same 2 foods endlessly, every food is basically the same with one sole exception, you don't get any other benefits for food besides saturation and not taking damage.
Really I think as a whole the base concept of hunger in minecraft is fine, its moreso meant as a way to nudge players the right direction rather than being a big obstacle or something of the sort. But at the same time if youre gonna do that, imo its important to branch off into new engaging mechanics from there that are more rewarding.
Something like a cooking system which rewards players for a bit of extra effort by providing things like small buffs or food that keeps you sated for longer. No cooking mod levels of complex, but just a little something more so you actually *do* something with the hunger mechanic beyond just slamming a steak every time you take slight damage. And if someone still wants to stick to the same tried and true foods that'd be fine too, they'd just need to incentivise some thought and engagement in a mechanic in order to make the base concept of hunger be worthwhile.
Because truth be told while I dont think hunger was the worst thing to be added I just think theres a ton of squandered potential left lying on the table. Though then again this is how I feel about like 75% of mechanics in minecraft, there's a lot of things that could be sick as hell but just arent and for some reason theyre left as is forever.
Minecart tracks, horses, and all other forms of transportation don't matter either because elytras exist, so the whole "speed" thing is largely a redundency. This is as well as being able to beat and conquer the game in under a couple hours on most seeds; thus the elytra.
Sprinting being overpowered and tying it to hunger further will only affect the early game, where food is already the main problem.
This feels redundant.
And easy if easy does die to starvation, it should at least be able to stay at 80 seconds as is currently with hardmode.
I feel like what could fix sprinting is just bringing the mobs up to sprint speed so u cant just avoid them and they become a threat again. This will force u to engage with the game without removing sprinting, cuz id still like to be able to save time going from my house to my mine while still being challenged which minecraft desperately needs
Tbh, I like this answer more. It also opens the door for more engaging combat mechanics such as monsters moving erratically or dodging (not “dodge” as in rolls and stuff, just that they’ll move out of the way of projectiles).
My only worry with this is Minecraft's pathfinding not being particularly good when it comes to very fast mobs.
But yeah it's a simple but very good idea, I imagine Vindicators should be able to match the speed of a sprint-jumping Player although their damage would have to be nerfed so we can deal with them when actually fighting them on melee without being too frustrating and janky to deal with.
This would work GREAT if it's exclusive to Hard Difficulty (not just Hardcore) but it would also mean that Difficulty shouldn't be changeable while playing the world in Singleplayer because it's not only exploitable-- it would probably also cause some bugs since I don't think this game is meant to significantly change base stats of mobs in real-time.
If you want to save time, design transportation systems.
Sprint is lazy, passive and boring as a result. It needs to go.
@@Specoups just buff transportation systems. The legacy console editions of minecraft had buffed minecart speed and it was amazing.
@@djerk2138 Adress the issue at its roots. Sprint does not serve any purpose if you remove its use as a travel method, whilst transportation systems are specifically designed for this. The problem comes from sprint, and as such it needs to be fixed at this level. *It's that simple.*
Sprint is addicting, but it's bad for your enjoyment of the game, so think responsibly and advocate for what makes your experience actually enjoyable instead of fast and fluid and easy. It's like you didn't understand the point of this video mate.
I am absolutely loving these videos, like most I came from the Muselk video but I really appreciate this style of content, you can see the passion through the way of editing. I also really like the idea of tying sprinting to the XP system, although I think the main reason the devs have held back on something like that is because of trauma from the controversial 1.9 update. In any case, awesome video, definitely one of my favorite creators I've found recently.
If you would remove sprinting, you would make the game 30% slower. Like you said, it's almost always available. Every game has millions of things that need have a duration but will end up wasting your time if you play the game a lot(like 2000 hours) reloading, equipping things, windups of something, charge up times, cooldowns etc.
Most of these would just make the game harder, while again barely matter in middle game. Player power creep is there, and mostly comes from mob farms, being able to build and lot of interactions that weren't meant for combat but it's too late to just drastically rework them. Sprinting in the end game would just be annoying (the exp level scaling is a cool idea to comat that but capping at 10 would still make it annoying, and players have little to no tolerance for that stuff, I mean it's not that far from the debate of stuns and slows in overwatch, but there needs to be a small cap on how much exp can improve it so you can't grind it out too much).and just make you kida needlesly more fragile when having nothing. You are already too weak with a bare inventory in a fair fight, you will die to one skeleton if you fight like a man
I think there are better ways to redesign the hunger mechanic. I like your idea if untying health regen from hunger, but past that I feel it needs work. I suggest that hunger BECOMES your stamina bar, and while walking and jumping consume nothing (or next to nothing as you need those simply to engage with the game) sprinting, attacking (especially if you expand the conbat system to provide more attack options) and especially movement, such as sprinting, and perhaps a few other abilities if we wanna make traversal and parkour more interesting (and also allow for more intense world generation)
Now with hunger itself we have saturation and the hunger bars itself. And I think this could be used to help balance foods (as well as other effects for higher tier/more expensive foods) as the more saturation you have the slower your hunger bar will reduce but the hunger bar itself is what grants you your abilities. Thus adding a bit of depth and consideration (especially if we actually make saturation visible) for what foods should be chosen depending on the moment (though I do think splitting the hunger brs into quarters would help this be smoother)
Finally your issue about mobs and sprinting can be solved a much better and more engaging way, change the mob ai and behavior. Make creepers faster than wapking slower than sprinting, still allow for skillful play while also increasing the paranoia (shields also need to be rebalanced for this) and many other mobs could be given enhanced movement and the smartwr ones perhaps their own stamina
I loke that you're looking at the underlying game systems but you have to be cognisant of how they all overlap in order to give the best analyses, and expanding on our current mechanics can lead to a more fleshed out and engaging game than simply limiting the players options
id love the mixed heal/hunger for different foods, sounds interesting. also really good vid you deserve way more subs
1) Hunger is ment to be a problem for *early game*. If sprinting is removed, then it would destroy the pvp community. Also when you sprint you lose hunger faster. Good video btw
I was with you until the sprinting bit cause outside of battle I still need to move fast be it while building or parkouring or just to go from point A to point B while exploring, to the point that whenever I start a new world I instantly go into the accessibility settings and turn toggle sprint on. So instead why not just make everything else faster? It would make mobs more dangerous and It would make elytras so unwieldy that every other method of travel (that in this scenario also got buffed) would become more viable by comparison.
If everything else was faster a lot of the issues regarding actions not holding that much meaning would be exacerbated even further. I'm all for having sprinting be a toggleable option when making a world though.
@@LucidMakesVideos You do know toggle sprint means sprinting forever right?
Also I don't get why making everything else faster would make things matter less, like I said it would make other modes of travel actually viable but aside from that it would also make sprinting in combat a necessity and raise the players situational awareness because the fuse time of creepers would also be faster meaning that if you're not paying attention creepers will sneak up on you and if you don't have some god-like reaction time you're gonna get got.
My ultimate stance Is slow=bad so I'm never gonna back a solution that makes my default travel speed any slower than it already is.
@@SpiritOfSpiteyou did read his comment right?
@@therealyojames He didn't state any reason as to why it would make things matter less and I think he misinterpreted what toggle sprint is
My second comment questioned him on whether or not he did misinterpret what toggle sprint is, asked him to explain why making everything faster would make things matter less and pre-emptively gave reasons as to why my solution does not in fact make things matter less.
Did *you* read either of our comments?
@@SpiritOfSpitethis is a late response, but you seem to have misunderstood something. Toggling a sprint option during world creation would refer to being able to decide whether the ability to sprint is enabled at all or not when you create a world. So you can play fast if you wish to, but also have another option.
Really good video.
Would like to hear what you gonna say about Crafting, End and Copper.
Probably something about lack of guidence for player with crafting stuff and mechanics, and hard coded progression that make additions meaningless.
Good video but i do have some issues with your ideas... N1, if your system was implemented, If you sate your hunger but not your HP how would you gain back your health?
Secondly, putting sprint on a cooldown would only make it a frustrating mechanic and removing sprinting entirely would be removing a whole bunch of key parts of minecraft such as parkour, many minigames or even make traveling over longer distances way harder than it already is without an elytra and a good PC.
In my opinion these changes are too radical and also shift the game into a way more challenging direction all the while punishing those who dont seek challenge.
My solution would be to buff other modes of transport, make horses less clunky to ride, make minecarts faster (creating a railway across a large distance that is frequently traveled would now make sense) but speed potions are fine as is...
In terms of combat, more mobs could inflict slowness as to not allow the player to run away so easily or even redesigning structures where a challenge is intended to force players to engage in a fight.
you would... eat food? just answering your question lol.
This. I feel like most people underestimate how many casual players play the game. Playing with my non-gamer friends really showed me that they have a totally different perspective. They just wanna build cute houses and don't give a damn about stuff like this.
The changes he described would most likely just piss them off. Minecraft isn't a challenging game. But why should it be.
I think the best way would be remaking the hardcore difficulty to being actually a survival experience instead of just "survival, but permadeath".
@@matyas9552 I agree. It always annoys me when people come up with "fixes" for games without even considering how people who AREN'T THEM play the game.
Great video! I loved the editing, pacing and the way you laid out all the points in a way that feels very nice to engage with :)
I’ve been playing since 1.7 or so, so hunger and sprinting have been ingrained in my brain at a very young age, with that said i would never give up sprinting nor do i have a problem with how hunger works. What i do have a problem with though has much to do with how the game presents itself to a new player: you could ask any long-time minecraft player about saturation and there’s a good chance they wouldn’t know a thing about it. But that’s a minor offense to me. Saturation is something that’s good to know at best and very negligible information at worst. With sprinting, i think the cons you listed aren’t as bad as you say they are, for one being able to run from threats is (i think) a good way to keep players at least aware of their surroundings while offering a way out of danger that still comes down to individual skill. If we were all playing minecraft since middle school it would make sense for the game to be balanced around our feedback, and while it is still valid to bring these points up, minecraft isn’t just being made for expert players, or people who play games regularly at all. It’s being made for people who don’t have experience in games too, aswell as people who hear about the creativity aspect of minecraft without having the fundamental knowledge of how to even move in a 3D space. Also kids but idc they can get good i guess lol
OR AT LEAST that is what i think the general direction of minecraft is/should be: to be a deep game with complex systems hidden behind a very approachable block game. You can definitely argue that those complex systems should be taught in a better way rather than just plop them into a world and maybe sometimes giving clues as to how they work or outright showing them like the redstone circuits in every ancient city and i agree with that. Very interested to see the remaining chapters :)
Sidenote i just reminded myself of the various books they would make to teach about stuff like redstone and oh man was that a hard read. Granted i was never a very attentive reader nor do i think i had the mental capacity at that age to even understand what the fuck an Or gate is (not that i know now!) but it was so wack of them to drag the learning out of the game and into an engineering 101 book with 3/4ths of the pages torn out and with 30% of the words being replaced with “block hehe”
You really nailed what the hunger system and sprint’s inclusion did to trivialize the good “casual in easy to learn but hard to master” balance I feel like older minecraft had, though the ideas of removing regen entirely and nerfing sprint to a burst and cooldown system to make enemies more dangerous again but to the detriment to longer range travel seem like a “cleaver for a scalpel job” way of rebalance.
Bringing back some or a good chunk of food healing some again on top the hunger is a great and well balance change to a good middle ground that adds more decision and planning into what foods you bring. It shouldnt be instant health restore so insta heal and regen potions are still a useful commodity but somewhere slightly below the current passive health regen rate would be a good rate for a food’s health restore stat to be applied at. Add on not only food eat speed differences between foods and maybe even stack limit and you have alot of room to encourage players to vary their food options for their situational needs. Optionally add on a very slow but adds up outside combat regen as long as you have above 75 or 50% (balance preference) hunger filled and you would be able to balance the food system very well for both pve and pvp. If not slow passive regen, rebalance beds to use up hunger when you sleep but convert the amount used into health to make players weigh whether they should use a bed or use the night time for other things depending on their situation and supplies.
As for sprint, its much more simple: same as now (though make it a 15-20% speed boost instead of 30) but you have a slower speed ramp up and quicker sliding ramp down to leaving sprint. That way you can still use it to travel faster distance wise but cant use it to invalidate danger early on or stop on the spot if you run into danger. Personally debated whether armor above chain should innately debuff sprint ontop that to make lower tier armor pieces maintain some worth but making iron and diamond less enchantable and adding sprint/general speed related enchantments to the game is simpler balance/code wise alternatively.
Would like to know what you or other viewers think of these additive/counter point suggestions. Sorry for the large amount of text on the food suggestion section though, ill see about summerizing it better need be later.
Couple things, what’s basically being said is a core gameplay mechanic was added with no thought of how it affects the rest of the game, food in Minecraft for example is very easy to obtain. Another thing is why doesn’t someone mod it in? I know it’s not a permanent solution, but to make it more engaging it could work. Lastly, from what I’ve seen around and played, Minecraft is a decent game with mechanics flawed to the core, and that’s why it keeps feeling stale, it never improved. I personally have been enjoying a little known game called vintage story, which alters the Minecraft formula in a way I enjoy
Minecraft without sprinting is like a burger without meat
Oh i really hope you finish this series soon. Would love to see someone get inspired by what you have to say, then tweak and mod minecraft for themselves till its what you think is its best version
Redesign of food system is needed, but you forgot about one major issue with movement....Elythra. Supposed to be "late game" item is not really late game, it takes just few hours to get it (unless you join server late) and other means of transport are obsolete. If you think of it, every basic mechanic got so much things just added to it, and after all these years and additions it needs redesign.
I think the easiest way to fix hunger- redus saturation from one-type food. Like, if player eat only pork, he restore less and less hunger, and one time he just can’t eat it. This will make players making more farms, and cook more food, but it still not very global change
i promise you that for the average person, the game is not easy enough to require a nerf like this
The health regen shouldn't be instant like in the older days, because that would ruin combat if you have some distance between you and the enemy. It should most likely be a gradual effect (like regen 1 HP per 2 secs for the amount of the food), and cancelled (or delayed) if hit.
I think the game Vintage Story does hunger pretty well, even if you're starving to death you can still sprint, but you're encouraged to stay alive as long as possible because of a nutrition system, over time as you eat a variety of foods you'll increase your maximum health, food is also fairly difficult to get and just cooking raw meat, or foraging berries won't get you too far, but actually cooking and properly storing food (which can perish) is significantly better than just cooking red meat on a campfire, and for a longer play through you have to contend with winter, so storing food is important otherwise you won't survive as animals will also yield less meat and resources
9:29 You underestimate the terrifying power and skill of a archer skeleton
13:00 ok, so I liked where you were going when saying some foods are more geared towards hunger and others health (which I thought meant stamina : health) but then you said there would be no sprinting, which makes me beg the question as to the point of the hunger bar in your example.
Edit: Ok, I know you added the sprint, but you said it was to throw the MC community a bone! So it makes me wonder what you were thinking if there was no sprint option!
15:40 this would be so god dam annoying when you are trying to build something, and all the parkour maps would be broken.
instead, if you don't want players to be able to just run away from enemies, take a page out of Tactical First Person Shooters, allow players to run non-stop but the second they take damage they lose the ability to sprint for x amount of time.
I agree that it’s way too easy to get the food you need. But I think what makes it harder is that your health regenerates so slowly. If you’re really stuck with a lot of enemies around you and you’re not fast enough to get away, you’re pretty much guaranteed to die because your health doesn’t regenerate fast enough.
I totally agree with the annoyance of your hunger just chipping away all the time and you constantly have to stop and eat.
Maybe I’m just caving wrong, but I’m terrified of those gigantic caves with all the darkness around me, and monsters just continuously streaming out of the darkness. I’m honestly afraid to put my head down and dig up those diamonds.
I do love your suggestions on how to make the food system more engaging, although I think I would be incredibly annoyed if those changes were made to sprinting!
I've been playing on a private server with a modpack recently, and the combination of mods creates an interesting dynamic for food. You have a much greater variety of dishes via Farmer's Delight, its addition of the Cooking Pot which allows for the creation of complex dishes, and a ton more add-on mods. Then, Spice of Life gives you a unique incentive to seek out new types of food: Every 50 different foods you eat, you gain one heart of max health. This has encouraged us to not just secure _a_ stable food supply, but multiple, and then specialize in whatever is more readily available around us, which we can then sell or otherwise to others using shop blocks or by doing favours for one another. For example, I specialize in growing Udumbara Flowers from the Youkai's Homecoming add-on mod, which are normally a pain to get because they grow in moonlight, shrink in sunlight, and only bloom during a full moon; this requires a whole setup with a Piston ceiling hooked up to a Daylight Sensor, which a vast majority of people don't want to deal with.
And then on top of all this, we have Sophisticated Backpacks, which on top of fixing Minecraft's -arguably more pressing- inventory management problem, also have a Feeding Upgrade you can craft using one of each golden food, which, as the name implies, will automatically feed you whatever you have in the backpack whenever you're hungry enough to eat it. You could argue this trivializes food even more, but it's nice to not have to keep it on your hotbar, and you don't even slow down when it auto-feeds you-if it's going to be trivial to keep a food supply going, might as well make it basically invisible to the player.
As for your proposed sprint fix... As many have already pointed out in this comment section, it feels better to go faster. I think a better compromise might be to have the sprint jumping speed start at 7.1m/s for the first 3 seconds, but then slow down to something like 6m/s. That way there's a reason to invest in horses or minecarts as transportation, as they will have better sustain than sprinting.
Basically most of this video is just "adventure update bad". I agree.
Eating at any point feels more like a chore than a challenge, and sprinting makes combat mostly redundant. Your suggested solutions provide a pretty good blend between classic and modern Minecraft.
When you mention the minecart speed compared to run speed my first respon wasnt running is too fast but minecarts are too slow
I also notice that he seems to be under the impression that player transportation is the ONLY use that minecarts have.
@@TheEmeraldWeirdo yeah they used in so many ways that changing there speed would be hated by bassicly anyone
Bro said remove sprinting 💀
i love the combined hunger and health benefits of food suggested but the sprinting nerf would need major buffs to other forms of transportation (aside elytra, the addition of firework boosting made it so you didn't even need to build an elevator or canon anymore let alone the skill of punch bow boosting)
as you say, the immense cost of minecart tracks is outweighed by holding ctrl is still true in this case and having sprinting drain hunger that fast would make it even worse than on release where you could starve on the first day without sprinting once, having minecart tracks give 64 per craft and doubling the carts speed would probably encourage players to use them.
as for the difficulty, it's hard to say cause it is ultimately a casual game and you can install datapacks which keep your hunger at 3 bars and turns food into direct hearts using item use scoreboards as a detector, though on food there is actually one food which can give potion effects and it's the suspicious stew, but the boost is so minimal people only use saturation stews and even then they're unstackable so making them stack to 16 or give effects comparable to low level potions would be neat especially with their unique effects, like give us the creative only max health effect, that could be fun lol
The raised questions are good, but the solutions are questionable.
In my games, I always end up with chests completely filled with food stacks. so I just go and click the eat button without a challenge, as it says in the video. yeah, we could divide foods into health and hunger categories, but I'll still be wandering around with practically infinite food, slowing myself down every 2 min. nothing would change.
the only way to fix this is, I think, is solution from the Don't Starve (survival game with arguably the best food management)
Look at it this way: you have endless food in Minecraft. Dozens of objects like armor already have durability in the game, AND.. meat has a rotten version.. adding durability to the food so that it rots will make it impossible to stuff endless food in chests. Instead you'll need to maintain a constant source of food. Meaning you'll have to keep your farm going, perhaps, actually plant seeds like in farm games, and not just build a farm and forget about it (because there's so much food anyway). Then in the end game, perhaps you could make some sort of a freezer in the icy biomes
Sprinting kills atmosphere, I agree. The obvious solution would be to make players move with different speed depending on the block they walk on. There's already system like that (soul sand, cobweb), it's just too barebones. Surfaces in caves should slow players down or make sprinting there impossible. Surfaces like gravel, on the other hand, should speed up the player
how to gain food in caverns? i don't know, for me run out of food is equal to come to the surface. also an extremely important resource in caves is wood. if your pickaxe is broken, make a new one, but for this it is important not to lose the workbench and have sticks. I don't like leaving caves
kill zombies for rotten flesh. it is edible [but not recommended to eat it for long term, since it technically only fills out 2 hunger bars]
I’m still of a mind that the only way to truly fix sprinting is to remove it. As it stands, sprinting removes all danger from most mobs, nearly invalidates all other forms of travel, and generally makes the world feel smaller. Trying to keep the feature and craft it into anything else wouldn’t make it any better, it’d just frustrate people in a different way.
I think this is why one of my favorite food mods is "Nutritional Balance".
It forces you to diversify your diet to you can maintain a healthy diet so you can get a buff. But if you don't engage with the system the opposite happens.
Doesn't fix all the issues with food, but it does help a lot.
Sprinting honestly wouldn’t be so bad if not for how utterly horrible the games enemy AI is, and the fact sprinting doesn’t really have any caps to limit it in combat.
What if like idk if there’s no hostile mobs nearby hp sprinting was more or less the same (to preserve its travel utility because travel in minecraft frankly sucks in general outside of sprinting) but if there’s hostile mobs nearby it has the tried and true “sprint gauge” then they just make it so mobs aren’t slow as molassesc screw it give THEM a sprint they use to try and catch up to you, not as fast as yours but enough to where they don’t just eat dust the second you start sprinting
Next: “The problem with exp in survival Minecraft”
“The problem with hearts in survival Minecraft”
One way I could imagine fixing hunger is that your natural regeneration rate is based on how full it is. Being better at the game reduces the amount you need to eat, but it provides a helpful buff for keeping it up if you happen to take damage.
An idea for the rate is the equivalent of regeneration 1 at full hunger, normal regeneration rate at half, and no regeneration (and maybe damage) at none for prolonged periods of time.
so the other 3 videos are represented with the Knowledge book (though most people don't know it's an actual item accessible via /give with custom parameters to allow giving people recipes via right-click), an eye of ender, and a copper ingot.
Crafting, & the End seem like easy guesses to make, but Copper could be talking about many different things.
For one, Copper doesn't really have much uses. Though the ones it does have are kinda all disconnected from eachother. Though Copper is also obtained from mining, so it could be hinting at something more ore-based. Though in our world, Copper is used for electrical wiring, so it could have something to do with that.
Ain’t no way he actually said to remove sprinting 😭
never have i thought about this but i can fully agree with what have you said and im down to see datapack like this
what's the song at 10:53? I recognize it but don't remember what it's from... It's like from battleblock theater or something
Sprinting length attached to xp is a brilliant idea, but how good would it be when you get your xp back for 7 levels? Would it stay like that if it were good enough to bounce back reasonable compared to a clean start or would it make it downright essential no matter what, besides items? I always hated losing xp that I probably wasn't ready to use, but this is now more direct incentive that sort of fits into the arcade feel of the artstyle.
But mobs taking your armor might have to go, idk.
Very interesting! Before I see your solution, I'm going to pitch mine.
- Make all food non-stacking
- Add a "food bag" that functions similar to modded backpacks, but can only store food, and if you hold Shift-Right click with it selected you will eat from its first slot that has food
- Make farmland occasionally turn into poor farmland, slowing crop growth drastically. Player must occassionally check their farm to re-plow, or craft a new type of farmland that never degrades
- Health regen from hunger is only enabled after 10 seconds of not sprinting/swimming, but 2x as fast and can trigger as long as your hunger is more than 3, allowing you to go longer without the need to stop and eat.
- Make sprinting consume even more hunger, while riding horses/sailing boats consume a small extra.
- Buff minecarts. Make rails cheaper, and max speed higher.
I agree, I was thinking a good nerf may be to tie sprinting to food. Different foods changes the effectiveness of sprinting. Honestly one issue with the current food system is there isn't enough factors that can make different foods unique.
The current system would probably benefit from being rebalaned. But many have gotten used to that system and like it (for good reason in some regards).
This was really good, can I suggest you talk about beds in a future video? They make the game so much easier because night time doesnt exist anymore, and you get punished now for not using them with phantoms.
Thank you for saying everything thats been on my mind since 2011 when they implemented this. Not to mention there was no brightness slider where now you have permanent night vision. Back then your choice of defense in caves was mostly sound, and if you didnt want to fight a monster the choice to flee combat was only an option before combat started. I havent enjoyed minecraft the way i enjoyed it in beta 1.7. its still an okay game, but what they implemented in beta 1.8 made it a completely different game
Ive been dedicating a solution to hunger a lot of time too, and I definetely agree on almost everything you said, though disabling sprinting as we know it today would cause people to rage too much. Also all parkour tracks would heavily pay the price and it would just be too devastating for everyone, so even though the game IS better without sprinting, we'd have to think of another idea to nerf it without changing it's duration or speed, like buffing hostile mobs and so on
My idea for how to fix hunger:
1. Hunger should not be stamina. Stamina should be stamina. Being hungry affects your stamina, but they shouldn't be the same thing. Being more hungry should mean your stamina regenerates slower and to a lower maximum level. Sprinting and jumping everywhere should quickly deplete stamina, not hunger. Wearing heavy armor, carrying a bunch of stuff in your inventory, swinging around a heavy axe, swimming up waterfalls, etc should cause stamina to deplete quickly.
2. Critically low hunger should not be a day 1 issue even if you sprint really often. The hunger bar should go down much slower.
3. It should not be a trivial need to satisfy with zero effort. Animals should not be willing to just give up their meat and let you eat them but actively run or fight and try to stop you from killing them. Sheep should flee and occasionally ram you. Pigs should flee and try to gore you. Cows should flee and be able to gore and trample you fairly effectively. Chickens should flee. All animals should be extremely fast and nervous and require more than just brute force to take down. Crops should grow slowly. Animals should have needs, which if not met, cause them to stop growing, stop breeding, or even die. Farming should require more farmland to produce a reasonable yield and take place on much longer timescales. Settled agriculture should be something that requires a decent amount of resources to start and is hard work initially, with a constant need to supplement it with hunting and gathering while it gets going.
4. Hunger and medicine should not be the same thing. When you take serious damage, you shouldn't just be able to have steak and be fine. Maybe your stamina should let you be superficially fine within a short period, but underneath, you're still hurt, and you still need actual medical items to not be. IMO it should even be possible to have a life threatening injury, where your apparent health is being drained by how bad your injuries are, so even though you're alive, you need medicine ASAP. You can then introduce tradeoffs of stopping power versus damage, nonlethal weaponry that quickly incapacitates, and other interesting weapon concepts. Maybe worrying about a critically wounded animal running off and dying out of view should be an issue too?
5. As the game progresses, satisfying hunger will pretty much invariably get easier (well, once you get past early agriculture) but the necessity of having actual healing items, and the need to sprint more often to engage in more challenging gameplay, should be a thing that encourages more and more expensive food sources and also medicine so you can sprint and heal more easily.
Go play real life then
Removing sprinting would make the game unbearably slow, making a game better isnt done by dragging out the amount of time it takes to do literally everything
if you feel like eating takes up too much time, then cooldowns are not a good alternative. eating is interactive, takes like 2 seconds, and has a great sound effect. its pretty well known that players hate waiting for stuff
Don't eat piggy problem solved. Do agree with most of this. Wishing minecarts moved faster than I can run with a swiftness potion..but one critique these things are older mechanics that had a small team working. It's like they are afraid to rework the root issues. Sorry if I'm rambling on.
last time I starved in Minecraft? Starting a 1.2.5 SMP where none of us had food for awhile.
great work cant wait for the next video essay
Ask a modder to make a mod with these valid points. I dunno about increasing sprint at all according to XP, since XP farms would bring back the old sprinting problem and make it more busted.
Since Hoglins exist i didnt seen like huge point spending time with animals when i could farm hoglins that can be cheesed and still get XP also since they are hostile they respawn rather fast in Crimson Forest.
Also the drastic changes kind of make me mixed and your intentions sound like made for combat snapshot.
You should try Minecraft Ultra-Hardcore difficulty.
No mods. When you make a new world, make sure to disable “natural health regeneration” in advanced options.
Now you’ll need to aquire regeneration some other way, other than food to heal. Except for golden carrots, but those require gold.
I went back to Java 1.6.4 a while ago to a seed I liked (I don't have it anymore, sadly. I really loved it, it was the first one I liked).
I started a new world there, and in the morning of the second day, my hunger bar was half depleted. I had built a basic wood plank house, dug a bit inside it at night, but not much, and didn't take any damage.
It used to be harder, they made it easier with time, maybe in the combat update?
Obtaining a good horse is usually my first goal in the game. Fast travel, outrunning skeletons, and it avoids using up hunger. A good one can jump over rivers too.
When it comes to speed in Terraria sure there's a armor set that gives a 30% buff to speed in late game but you also get hermes boots and rocket boots early on and you can combine them early on too, also full shadow armor is 10% I believe. (Mounts also give speed after a buildup but most require grinding in pre-hard.). Honestly though that's really how it should be for Minecraft too. Speed should be earned not a base movement, like maybe keep base sprinting but make it slower and have to find something to make it faster whether temporary or permanent.
The food healing hearts idea though is kinda terrible with stackable food. There's an eating animation but that's really nothing not wait time.
I like the idea of giving different foods different health benefits/ hunger benefits cause I really dont see a reason to use much of anything else other than bread or golden carrots in the current version. However nerfing sprinting would really make exploration tedious considering how big biomes and caves are on the current patch. Itd probably be better to just buff enemies and alternate transportation option’s since at this point the game world and playerbase are adjusted to how the mechanic currently works.
Super awesome video! Glad you feel similarly abt how hunger and sprint have trivialized the game (especially regarding the animation lol)
That being said I’d keep things mostly the same so that it’s easier for my girlfriend lmao
The answer to "should they have added X?" is almost invariably "yes, but in the complete opposite way that they actually did."
Mayor of yapsville
Please finish this series!!
This is a really good video, never thought too deeply about this, having started playing long after hungers inclusion.
Thank god for sprint.
Counterpoint:
In SMP worlds with friends, I never make food. I always steal or pillage. Farming is boring, I make houses in stupid places with no access to animals, and villagers are the worst.
However, I am also always hungry. I sprint everywhere, I go progressively deeper and deeper down mineshafts, caves, deep dark, and nether. And most of the time its hunger that kills me. I cant regen health after a small army of skeletons falls ontop of me. I cant sprint away from the blazes and ghasts firing a me.
And on bigger trips? Food is always my limiting factor. I need an empty inventory for stashing valuable items and resources. I cant do that if my hotbar is all tools, and two rows of my inventory are supplies and food. You can craft more torches whenever, coals plentiful, trees are too. But theres nothing to eat in the deep dark. Everything edible in the Nether is dangerous, and the End is even worse.
I think food should be more varied and fun. The main detractor for me is scalability and practicality. Chickens, beef, potatoes, and golden carrots are basically the only practical food sources. The first three only because farming them is near trivial. I think different foods should have different benefits. Making them like potions is too strong, it defeats the point of potions. But perhaps a stackable, placeable meal should be an option. A big bowl that can be filled with stews that can be eaten like a cake, and be reused. A single bite refills most hunger, but requires lots of specific food items to craft. Perhaps cold foods could increase saturation in the Nether. Or eating specific nasty foods, like Beetroot, could repel zombies until your hunger drains. Theres more depth to the mechanic that can be expanded upon. But sprint cooldown is not one of them. Minecrafts main limiting factor is long distance travel. Only efficient with specific animals, Elytra and rockets, and crazy redstone. Limiting the players main mode of movement is just as bad as stopping to eat every 2 minutes. It discourages exploration, and will extend any trip by hours. Minecarts are a terrible example because they have just been neglected by Mojang. But Nether portals, Elytra, Ice highways, Piston Bolts, Ravager Cannons, TNT Launchers, Ender Pearl Cannons. Theres tons of novel ways of movement. Forcing a player to rely on badly neglected mechanics to effectively move short to medium distances is bad game design. Minecarts and horses should be improved, not relied on. And potions of swiftness are for combat, they are terrible for travel. And are quite late game and resource intensive to be considered a method of transport.
Like with your point about creepers. If the game currently does not present a threat, the solution is not nerf it until the current enemies are threatening. The solution is make deadlier enemies. After so many days in a survival world, stronger enemies spawn. Naturally they already do more damage, but these are enhanced mobs, not normal world progression. Creepers that blow up bigger, perhaps into tiny scatterbomb creepers that move like baby zombies. Skeletons all turn into strays. And normal strays now have poison arrows. Spiders get the ability to run faster and creep through walls. Any crevice that is not a full block in size is fair play. As well as making mini spider spawners that destroy nearby light sources and spawn cave spiders. Zombies that perform raids on player bases, and anywhere with a bed. Phantoms that keep the world in perpetual night with magic, and causing a progressively worsening slow effect until the player rests. Endermen that congregate near beds and player structures, with a penchant for taking. As well as enderman spawning with more redstone blocks, like redstone, or TNT. Seeking to destroy functionality of unprotected structures. Pillagers who raid at night, and prolong the night until their raid ends.
These all make minecraft more engaging, scary, and fun for experienced players. Whereas simply limiting sprinting makes enemies annoying, not a threat.