Kane and Able: The History of Batwoman and Batgirl | Canon Ball
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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Kane and ABLE. You know what you did there. And I can't stop laughing.
@Jack Dean Barbara Gordon gets shot in the spine in Killing Joke and becomes *Disabled* so when she was Bat girl she's *Able*
@Jack Dean batwoman's name is Kate Cane and batgirl becomes disABLEd
@Jack Dean It's a play on the first siblings. Cain and Abel.
*"Thank god they never put her in Injustice, or Superman would cook her, and feed her to Bruce"*
-
*NRS:* Write that down! WRITE THAT DOWN!
Wow Now I want Bat Cow in the Injustice Comics, where Bruce and Damian will be fighting for Custody and then she can be in the game
Yes, please.
Wow... I'm happy to see a Stephanie Brown fan .. that's niche now and days 💖
You're not alone!
You are too right with Cass, she unretired several issues later in Tec (someone began targeting Bat Family members that were still in Gotham at that time namely Cass, Babs, and Duke) and joined up with the Outsiders with Duke Thomas. Currently, in said comic, both are being targeted by Ra's. Cass is also getting a new graphic novel out in January from the now formerly called DC Ink line called "Shadow of the Batgirl". Babs also will be appearing in the comic and get her own Ink graphic novel later in 2020 but as Oracle.
Barbara by far is the best because of everything she overcame, my brother was paralyzed and we always enjoyed her from the time we watched Batman the Animated Series to learning about the killing joke and to see how great she became as Oracle to her new 52 run and the beginning of the rebirth run until he past away, and that’s just more sentimental than anything else
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your brother. He is on a far better place now.
Stephanie Brown is your favorite Batgirl. I see you are a man of culture.
Team Cain for me
User she the 4th robin that die she bc of some time reality Changed she never existed and Barbra is the best batgirl
I always thought Batwoman was just an older version of Batgirl
That's what originally was planned but then sjw took her!
@@hedrocs How did SJWs take her?
Supreme Victory SJW’s took over the comic book industry, and that’s why Ethan Van Sciver got fired from working at DC comics publishing company.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr I don't understand how that relates to batwoman though, gay batwoman existed a decade before EVS got fired.
@@Neptunes_Nymph yes totally because representation and progressivism is so natural give me a fucking break you closeted sjw! They made her into a lesbian because of ideology and soapbox political pandering nothing more!
It can't be overstated the negative impact Fredric wertham had on the comics industry and by proxy pop culture today. I understand the value of Oracle, I prefer Barbara Gordon as Batgirl in part because her intelligence, and resourcefulness, isn't limited to her ability to walk, but the writers ability to tell a good story. Her history starts in Library sciences indicating that she knows how to find information very well. It just wasn't really used to it's utmost before the Oracle run.
*"t can't be overstated the negative impact Fredric wertham had on the comics industry and by proxy pop culture today."*
-
Care to elaborate?
I liked cass the most. Her unique storyline was awesome. Especially when she beat shiva at the end of it.
This is so in-depth yet easy to follow. Great work, mate.
Thanks.
How could blind fans enjoy Daredevil? How could they even see it?
maybe they drew it in brail
most legally blind people arent 100% blind
I dunno if it still exists but a few years ago I found a website where the company did official audiodrama adaptions of popular comicbook storylines. It'd be a really useful thing to have for blind comic fans.
audio books
You might be surprised to learn this but blind people also play video games and "watch" movies.
I'm all about my Barbie. Oracle is great.
Jarvis Bailey Barbie?
@@SonicXtreme99akaCreeperMario Short for Barbara. My friend is named Barbara too so this is an inside joke.
So Jim and Barbara named their kids James and Barbara? And I thought Will and Jada Smith naming their kids Willow and Jaden was creepy
Batcow recently had a prominent appearance in a Teen Titans Go episode.
And now you know.
Okay, am I the only one that's realized the irony in Kate's Batwoman?
As in Batwoman, who was created solely to disprove that Batman was gay, is now a lesbian?
that might have been intentional.
I love the sneaky little only fools and horses reference
They SHAFTED Cassandra Cain’s character lately in the comics 🤦🏾♂️
I wouldn't really say it's been lately she's kind of been getting shafted by DC. since one year later. And that was all the way back in like 2006☹️
avatar desto facts
avatar desto she’s the most interesting Batgirl to me and her Black Bat storyline never really got to go anywhere
@@bullseye5262 oh yeah definitely I agree with you she is my favorite Batgirl and my second favorite member of the Bat-family. And the black bat stuff could have been really cool cass having her own City. Would have been a great book. But instead DC swept her under the rug for like 5 years. And then unnecessarily rebooted her.
avatar desto at least Jason Todd ain’t being wasted anymore at least...but goddamn instead of adding all of these new guys use the characters you have
To be fair a utility purse is alot more believable than a belt
I am pretty bummed about Babara. She had an off-screen and barely-mentioned surgery that fixed her spine prior the start of the New 52 and had her personality regressed enough to not be a suitable mentor. I would put her maturity and competence at about mid-batgirl career. This creative choice bars her from any mentorship roles which is painful when Detective Comics is treating Cassandra and Stephanie really well. Those two have pretty decent arcs in that series. Barabra has no interactions with them post New-52. What's worse, her title is handled by Gail Simone who also gave her a Valley-Girl kind of personality which is so jarring to me especially when compared to her past Oracle personality. She talks like what a middle-aged aunt assumes a carefree Millenial would sound like. Oh wait, that's Simone.
My favorite batgirls are Stephanie brown and Cassandra cane batgirl also Barbra godson as oracle was really great and way better then having Barbra Gordon as batgirl
@Sonic Fastest Hedgehog fair enough but at least out of that we got Barbra gordon as oracle which was really great and awesome and made barbra gordon more of a badass and awesome and a great mentor to the new batgirls but that's just my opinion.
@Sonic Fastest Hedgehog well at least she ended being awesome unlike Kyle Rayner's fridge
@Sonic Fastest Hedgehog indeed
Sonic Fastest Hedgehog honestly I think that Jason Todd’s death in Under the Red Hood comics is worst than Barbara Gordon’s death in The Killing Joke because of the fact that it wasn’t Ra’s Al Ghul bringing Jason Todd back to life with the Lazarus Pit then he’d stay dead for good whereas Barbara Gordon only got paralyzed from the waist down.
Cassandra is objectively the best Batgirl. Barbara couldn't even get an ongoing until New 52. The tragedy is what DC did to Cass after she had one of the best character arcs in comics at the time. A lot of people's ideas about Barbara come from media outside of comics, since from the late 80s to 2011 she wasn't Batgirl in continuity. Loved her as Oracle though.
I never knew Snake did anything more than MK content ( which I love 😌) very interesting where I also love DC👍🏾.
I honestly like Barbara as Oracle and I honestly hope Stephanie and Tim are still a couple because last time I checked, they were together but the new YJ series might change that
Unpopular opinion: I didn't really like Stephanie as Batgirl and her time as Batgirl is probably my least favourite out of the three Batgirls, I vastly preferred her as Spoiler and Robin. As Batgirl, she lost her anger, a central component of her character, and was simply reduced to more of a typical “cheerful blonde”. Not helping for me is that her costume is just "Babsgirl costume 2.0.", a nosedive compared to both her previous costumes and Cassandra Cain's creepy awesome costume which was distinct and unique.
And while Cass Cain is probably the "best" Batgirl in terms of characterization, despite its flaws (including for me, still keeping The Killing Joke in-continuity) I liked pre-Burnside New 52 Simone's run as Babsgirl, her characterisation felt like she could eventually develop into preboot Babs down the line, and her costume was pretty neat IMO. And then Burnside happened to torpedo it all.....
@Juan Yu See
I agree with you,Babs's Batgirl is the best in my opinion, even though I liked Steph as Batgirl ,she's much better as Spoiler, being a "potential" Batgirl and Cass being Black Bat. I understand that people can relate to Babs as Oracle with her disability ,but Babs's Batgirl is the most iconic version of Batgirl , her pre-burnside version is the best and it could have fit in the pre-flashpoint universe
Great video!! I learned a lot!
Legacy being lost is sad, but I hope we can still have a story where Batman, nightwing, Red hood, Red Robin, Damian Wayne, batgirl as Barbara or just oracle, black bat/orphan, spoiler, DEEP BREATH and batwoman would all be together in one comic. Basically Batman and all his family members.
P.S. and sure catwoman, huntress and obviously alphred all count. Does anyone wanna count the recent batwing (son of luscious fox) though?
The weirdest thing was when Bruce and Barbra had s3x
I agree. It's a good thing that's not canon.
We don’t talk about that......
AT ALL
Ignore it when you read the DC comics because it's only canon to really dumb decisions in animation that never should have happened.
Whenever I watch these videos about the creative process behind comics... I just feel like comics are bad.
Some of them are
@@gamerguy6990 I feel like a lot of them are. I feel like I've only heard a handful of story arcs or runs getting any real praise.
One big mess.
You could say the exact same thing about music, movies, pro wrestling, anime, video games, card games even sports to a smaller degree. Comics have a constantly rotating crew of creatives, each one with their own wants and desires, coming in for a spell, to do a balancing act of trying to write interesting stories, trying to push characters forward, trying to market iconic properties with said stories, trying to please diehard fans, trying to garner new fans, trying to keep things to a set status quo, trying to push said status quo and break it's boundaries, and somehow trying to do all that while still making a decent monthly story. Many of these characters have existed for longer than those writers and artists have been alive. Things are always going to get confusing and convoluted with people having their favorite interpretations of how characters should look, act and exist. The best bet with comics, is to look around, find the stuff that you enjoy, don't get too deep into critical analysis, read runs that you think are interesting, and understand that continuity is extremely flexable and honestly should not matter if it's in detrement to a good story.
@@dn22pkkdd476 Superheroes are brands not characters so they can't have a beginning and a end. That's why the other mediums you listed are superior, most of the time only one writer is on control
Bat-cow?
That's awesome, it has to be my second favorite batman character
the first one is Jarro of course
God I hated the new 52 for eliminating all of my favorite legacy characters like Cassandra cane batgirl and Stephanie brown spoiler becoming the new batgirl was really awesome and badass but then they got rid of them for bullshit.
As weird and kinda nothing the movie is, I like how Mystery of the Batwoman did the character. The idea of three different people with separate skills acting under the same hero alias at the same time really unique for superheroes
Cassandra Cain is best Batgirl don't @ me.
@Cray-Sea Coral
@@Bladedfox14 I-
Facts
Comic book fans often complain that Marvel copies DC, but nobody copies DC Comics more than DC Comics.
I can't wait for that Robin retrospective
Cassandra Cain should've stayed Batgirl, damn it
What a mess! But hey, that is comic books for you.
Bat Hound and Bat Cow are the greatest
Facts
The reason DC wont allow the marriage between Kate and Sawyer is because New 52 has a policy to not make heroes happy (Marriage included) for some fucking reason
Batwoman Kate not be able to get married may have a been due to them being gay but characters getting set up to be married as an event or what not then having the character not get married is a common thing in comics.
Wow i thought the crisis name was overused
I love Kathy, Bette, Babs, Steph, Cass, and Kate!
Cassandra is the best Batgirl imo.
This video just made realize that The4thsnake and Comicstorian would make a really good crossover.
He likes Injustice. It'll never happen. ;)
What’s that face supposed to mean? :|
Thank you so much. I had no idea about any of these Bat females outside of Batwoman, due to the new CW show. Glad to see they aren't all as cringey as her though.
None of the Batwomen or Batgirls are cringe. Also that show was very good
Cassandra is the best bat - not just batgirl.
Stephanie is a close second.
Batwoman Kate Kane and Batgirl Babs are my favorite
Bat-Cow
Cass is actually active in tje current outsiders book working mainly with Duke
Hay could you do one of this for red hood and Ravanger
My thoughts
Cassandria-best character
Stephine-best costume
Barbera-best alternative persona
Kate is awsome
The New-52 nutered the DC Universe
Bat cow
Best Bat Member of the entire family
Speaking of a line through time, are you ever going to continue that? Or is it done for good. Also one of the batwomen from the 2003 movie is called Kathie.
that was kathy Duquesne and she is separate from kathy Webb-Kane
More like Kane and Disabled
I would rather watch the origin story of Barbara Gordon becoming Batgirl. I actually think that the direction of the new Batman film series should focus on making the Bat Family. So not only Barbara's origin story, but one of the Robin's, maybe Jason Todd. By putting Robin and Batgirl at the center of the story, we can follow their journey with Batman as a mentor figure for them. It would be refreshing because The Dark Knight Trilogy already did the origin story of Bruce Wayne's journey. So, yeah they should've done Batgirl and Robin.
Will you do other superhero legacies?
Yes.
holy fuck!! After watching this video I'm so confused with all batgirls and batwoman and hell even with different version fo Robin.
10:09 My too
Who else because the Batgirl movie was canceled
Although in my personal opinion this does make them all big jerks, and I still think that there's multiple methods of explaining why she has a new spine! Method one: Bruce finally feels guilty enough because of all of his actions and finally gives her the money to pay for the spine surgery! Method 2: victor using his knowledge and tech from his own cyberization which by the way he does do for arsenal so I think it makes sense the only difference is arsenals makes them have to constantly pull out and replug in the arm which is weirdly weird because victor doesn't do that except for one weird storyline ignoring all that I think it makes sense for him to actually just give Barbara new spine. Those are the ones that give her the cybernetic spine which we've started to see in the storylines into which also enhances her cyber abilities by allowing her to hack remotely without actually having certain devices giving her a slight technopath abilities. [honestly the one I prefer, because it does not negate any of the history of her being Oracle and also it makes sense that a spine being replaced with cybernetics would take a long time to prepare and still mentally focus and analyze requiring long periods of physical therapy} As for some of the writers by the way I'm not I'm completely ignoring the actual one that they give out because I hate that it's an experimental surgery that has no connection with any of the people who are involved in the injury with the exception of maybe joker but it's him just reacting strangely to it! But some writers sometimes forget about the spine which I can often hand wave as the Lazarus pit, hey it's my preferred reason of explaining how Jason comes back every time! Speaking of I think I know what would be a perfect Canon ball for a spooky month? How many ways has Jason Todd been resurrected?
16:40
I want her hat so badly.
More like "Kane and DISabled"
Ba-dum-tsss
Could you possible do one on Bluejay? She was always confusing and hasnt appeared in about 3 years.
Who? The only time I remember the name being used was in the Bat-Thumb parody film.
I honestly don't care for either Kathy Kane's. I honestly find her insane sister Red Alice much more interesting. Horrific childhood but got her act together to become a super-natural monster hunter, becoming an R-rated Buffy.
Kate has the twin sister! kathy is the spy
The CW show will be a character assassination for Batwoman. #cancelarrowverse
that remains to be seen.
disney era power rangers just by the trailer alone the tv series fucking sucks.
17:21 my too 😢😂🤣
Shouldn’t have been created but only batgirl should stay
Batwoman predates Bat girl..... IDK that 😮😮😮
... Re suduction of the innocent, appearently the actual gay appeal characters were stuff like Namor.
Kinda wish I had a better source for that than a vague recollection of some vidoe maybe.
In the movie Batman and Robin, Batman said that the name Batgirl is too PC and that Batwoman makes more sense
You should do one of these for Spider-Girl/Spider-Woman since there's ALSO many of them that tend to confuse me personally
I do plan to.
@@The4thSnake That's awesome to hear dude!
11:05, ouch ok, are you saying the only reason people like Daredevil is because he's blind, that is actually kind of offensive to me as a fan of the character, who doesn't have a disability, I like him because his stories are some of the best in comic books, also you said that blind people readers relate to him... think about the logic of that statement, blind people reading comic books, a visual medium, yeah... I kind of doubt it, not that they aren't allowed to or anything, just...
Bat...cow?
6:06
.....odd panel... o_O
So what your favourite batgirl and why?
I almost fell for that one. But you won't get me, buddy!
Sorry er what made you turn it into a cannon ball episode instead of a line through time
Probably my favourite was Barbra the way she turned her disability into something useful was amazing
@@tomhibbert6486 I created Canon Ball later. It fits CB a lot better.
You know with the way how you critique media I feel you would make a great guest on the podcast EFAP (Every From A Pause) hosted by the youtubers Mauler and Rags You would love it
Barbara is my fav
MORE LIKE KANE AND DISA-
Tim and stephanie is where things should have stopped. Do reporters not ask questions about all these orphan kids in Bruce Wayne's house?
12:50 jajaja 😂🤣😂🤣
Kane and Able, more like Kate Kane and Dis-abled!
That is a weird accent you have?? What state is that? New Hampshire? Vermont??
I'm from England.
@@The4thSnake NEW ENGLAND?
There’s been more bat girls than robins wtf and tbh didn’t get most of that
The batwoman show will be nothing but hot garbage
Ashley Dortch you’re actually right about the Batwoman tv series will be nothing but hot garbage.
Confirmed the Batwoman show is nothing but hot garbage.
nope actually, really good
@@Tsukiakari-qb3tk its terrible
Ulrich Von Liechtenstein no it’s not
Batgirl? Kane & disabled amiright
This came out before the batwoman show and birds of prey. And it didn’t age well for those two dumpster fires 😂
Batman damien Wayne redhood nightwing batwing batwoman batgirl
Blind people like Daredevil really
Who's symbol
Barbra Gordon is the best batgirl I love her story with relationships with her family, but I’m not crazy for the new 52 redesign but her rebirth with the new costume is great although I also don’t like that costume ether, I’m not a fan of the other batgirls other than maybe Stephanie.
I really enjoyed the Tropes Vs Women series, I think Feminist Frequency actually provides a perspective... it isn't objective, but just a view those women have. As everyone has their own personal beliefs. I think she made several points.
JaiProdz her videos are very easily able to disprove because there’s already a men vs tropes in video games CZcams series that debunks her entire arguments.
Personally who's your favorite member of the Bat family?
Either Stephanie or Alfred.
@@The4thSnake Where would you rank Batcow & Do you count Starfire as a member, due to her relationship with Dick, Jason & Damien?
@@insanemakaioshin I wouldn't count Starfire honestly but it's a bit tricky and will change depending on who you ask. Direct Batfamily members, I feel, need to be heroes based soley in Gotham (or Batman inc. Worldwide) interconnected with Batman in day to day hero operations, or be inspired to work as a hero because of Batman's core beliefs and message. Even though she had previous relationships with Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (in the new52 Outlaws run) who were both Batfamily members, Starfire never became a hero because she believed in or was inspired by the Batman. She did it on her own accord. She also never worked closely with the Batman and really only interacted with him during crossovers. However, the "Batfamily" has no real team membership and affiliates come and go all the time. I would count Starfire when she joins the Outsiders as they are ususally depicted as Batman's personal (sometimes covert) hero team. But I honestly feel Starfire is more Titans and Justice Leauge affiliated than Batfamily.
cliffbot my most favorite Batfamily member is Jason Todd.
Probably dick or Alfred I mean their the least hated
Out of interest would you ever consider doing an aline through time episode or cannon ball episode on the sandman comics.
Never read them.
Not bad and kind of meh for the Batwoman TV show but I didn't mine Katy Kane as much what can I say loved the Yellow outfit but I can see what you mean, but she is part of the Batman family, and knowing that they might just bring her back yet again.
When did wonder woman become batwoman
It was a JLA issue from the 90's where Diana used a device to show her mutliple potential futures if she got with Bruce.
@@The4thSnake do you know the issue number?
@@MrMacman6969 #90 of e original JLA series.
How do blind people read comics....?
oh not this i love you in multiple ways but not this what have you done number 2
What?
The4thSnake i think i was drunk interesting video i didn’t even know about the two originals Bat girls
Cassandra Cain is the Best don't @ me
Everything was fine until the new 52 happened.
11:30 ¿🤬?
you know Daredevil always shows the direction Marvel is taking for example Daredevil was the first in the newer line of marvel comics and it was shit after following the incredible run they had in the 2000s also started by Daredevil the terrible 90s run also started with Daredevil having a shit run it's sad because both times they came after incredible stories with him and the Daredevil show predicted how the mcu would go with each season season 1 was pretty good the season 2 was alright followed by some ok side movies and season 3 was terrible followed by Captain Marvel
I have the sneaking suspicion that the Batwoman Lesbian wedding was cancelled for two Reasons:
1. Perhaps the Book was not liked by Comic Book Fans who were more critical of the Diversity push and what they perceived as 'tokenization' or just characters being replaced by 'subject on the minority checklist' for its own sake. But this needs a reading of the actual run with some sample reviews of the issues to confirm this definitively.
or
2. It was a broader decision done because of that backlash and the whole "MUH CULTURE WARS" arguement. Or it was seen at Marvel that Diversity pushes weren't going well because of their writing and they decided against it.
Personally I say: Eh why not Let it happen that'd be cool. Do it.
Mitchell Alexander no im pretry sure it was done because dan didio doesnt want any characters to have happy lives. hes said so himself. thats why dc comics is so shit no cos its run yet again by the fucker that made the failure that was new52...dnt no why he's back...alrrady fucked so many characters up and will continue to do su
the Batwoman comic had a pretty specific fanbase, there was no diversity backlash there because you knew what you were getting into when you signed up to reading it.
Not really. Back then many fans, including me, were infuriated that Kathy couldn't get married. DC later said they didnt want their heros married. That's why couples like Arthur and Mera and Lois and Clark weren't married, even when in previous continuity they were.
Maevaris clark and lois werent married cos dan didio hated the marriage. thats why he was paired with wonderwoman. he literally had a piece of paper of things he didnt like in dc comics and wanted to rectify. splitting clark and lois was one of them. another was killing dick grayson but if he did that ther wud be outrage.
All of this is why DC is dying. I'm surprised that they hadn't kicked Didio out already, especially with AT&T audit going on.