6 Truths About LIVE Cash Game Poker
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Live cash game #poker is totally different than playing online. With several unique facets, including tells, rake, and the inability to multi-table, live players need to prepare differently. This video shares six truths about live poker that I wish I fully understood as a newer player, so you can avoid making the same mistakes I did. Enjoy this addition to my #vlog and good luck!
0:00 Live Cash Game Poker Truths
0:42 Live Poker Is Super Slow
2:02 You Are Too Loose
3:25 Live Rake Is Quite High
5:36 Live Poker Is Still Very Beatable
7:10 Live Poker Tells vs Strategy
8:10 The Swings Can Be Brutal
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Do you consider it cheating when a player uses the app while playing live? I was at the Bellagio last night and a player was using it. He was trying to hide it in his lap so he probably knew it wasn't right. I talked to the floor and they said they had no rule about players using it.
@@MamaLLama790 The floor is an idiot "if" there was a promotional jackpot in progress during a hand then phones are never allowed & y'all know the reasons why.
Live poker is all about patience. Sometimes most people are playing solid, but eventually around 11 pm-1am people will slowly start getting so bored and start making stupid bluffs for stacks. So you have to be more patient that your table
Yes indeed!
One more I would like to add is endurance. Especially, when you playing a 6+ hr session. It could be really tiring on your body and mind. So a good diet, enough sleep, and regular exercise are very important.
Nicely said Jack. Mid-session breaks/walks are always a good idea too
Have not read all the comments, so don't know if anyone touched on this -- in live poker, it is important to develop a very thick skin because in every room, you will play against someone who is a complete sh*tbag; sometimes that person is actually a misanthrope, and sometimes they're just trying to get you tilted... either way, you need to tune it out and not let it affect your play. While this can be very difficult, it is nonetheless an essential skill that one must possess for the live environment.
Nicely said!
@@E.Asinus Headphones?
What if you are that guy? Lol!
I put on headphones and sing Alice Cooper songs
My God, if that minor thing bothers you, give it away now.
Low stakes Live Game Tip #7:
If you bet and get raised and all you have is top-pair, fold. This will save you a ton of money in the long term. Not many players at low stakes are making “moves” or bluffing in these situations. They’re doing it because they have two-pair or better.
Very true ime
Dont ever give free tips in YT again. You are ruining my livelihood, lol.
I made a call yesterday I basically classified as a hero call with A9 off on A4577 two diamonds on the flop.. he bet like 65 on the river but tanked for a minute before he did and he just seemed full of it… but normally I’d just fold in that spot.. it’s crazy that calling with top pair 9 kicker is basically a ‘hero call’ at live 1-2
@@mangohavoc6428 Sounds like his only move was to get you to fold there for him to win, and you had a great read on it.
@@mangohavoc6428 Like we all good solid players say, it will all depend on the table dynamics, friday and payday. If table is tight, just fold....if loose, call.Also always know your players, it's the fundamentals poker 101.
Agreed on most points but particularly that playing too many small pots live is a HUGE leak. And as you said, makes hand recall very difficult when you start to think about why and how you ended the session in the red, so it's not good for your bankroll or your study.
Excitedly waiting for your $2/$5 vlogs!!! Learned so much from your stuff. Keep it up!
Cheers Nicolas! I have a few episodes prepped - just haven't recorded them yet =)
Yep, all true. I've been grinding at the same card rooms in CA for the last 5-6 years (2-3-5, & 2-3-5 deepstack mostly) and everything you've mentioned about live cash games is 110% true. I can especially appreciate your note about tells existing, but it's better to stick with a sound strategy, since I play regularly with a lot of familiar faces, and so while I do find spots once in a while where reliable tells are profitable, it defintely does not happen on a regular basis. Not regular enough to depend on.
great video! Thanks for putting these out.
Cheers, and you're very welcome Brad!
For live poker one of the biggest tells is betting. An opponent will tell you if theyre strong or not nearly every time just by how theyre betting or not betting. You just have to pay attention to every player and analyze every hand that gets to showdown. Not just your hands. Keep notes on players at the table. After an hour or so you should be able to out play most people on the table. If you cant you need to work on your game and figure out how to plan and execute.
once again a stellar video from a great guy!
Thanks Jacob!
Also, as for playing tight, it's important that the raise sizes can be enormous compared to the blinds. It's not uncommon to raise to 12 after not playing a hand for an hour and to get 3 callers. (Here in Florida anyway) your risk of ruin is SO low that you *could* just wait for AA-QQ and AK, to get involved and still turn a profit.
Also, the stack depth is not really 100bb if you're raising to 10 or 12 pre. It's like it's 50 to 70bb. (As far as the post flop SPR is concerned) This means you should play muxh tighter.
Yeah, the effective stack depth (especially with larger OR sizes and/or constant straddles) can vary widely.
Good ole Best Bet Jax
love your content!!!
Thank you Jeffrey!
It was 42 degrees the other day and yes, they had the AC on at the Hollywood at the Meadows Casino.
🥶
Oh so EXCELLENT video!
Cheers Paul!
From a multi-year experience playing live poker for a living: Boredom management is a VERY important skill to master to avoid spewing chips.
It must come at a later point of experience. I only tried live poker once, and I have never been so hard at work ! Online is a breeze compared. Just to keep track of the stack sizes and the pot size all the time was impossible for me.
I didn't have any time to be bored with reading people, counting for correct bet size, thinking of position and so on. And I even played so tight, the others commented on it, when I finally played a hand 😆
Quality content Thank you
Awesome video -- I often find myself capable of spending 2 hours in a live cash game before the boredom sets in where hands that you would normally fold pre-flop you begin to think to yourself "hey, this looks playable".
For on-line games, can you tell the computer to auto-fold pre-select hand groups at each poistion at the table? I could see where this would be a great thing where you could have different acceptable ranges at each position that you'd be willing to play based on the number of callers acting before you.
Also it's funny how the table dynamics usually take these big swings in cash games where at first everyone is playing solid poker with raises, 3-bets, max 2-3 people in a pot pre-flop to where everyone is limping in before the flop and we're playing for pot sizes that are only 4 times the BB. In cash games, it's usually hard to transfer over to another table in this case since there's usually a waiting list for a table so the only way to get things moving along is to straddle. But this is the biggest problem with live cash poker today is that most poker rooms seem short-staffed so even though there may be 16 tables, only 4 are running because of the staffing problems and you have over 30 people on the waiting list. You would think that with rakes being as high as $8 per hand for a $1 / $2 game that the card rooms would have the incentive to offer dealers more money in order to get larger workbase and have more games running.
Every poker site has different rules but I know auto-fold software is prohibited on Pokerstars. They want players to be making their own decisions about all actions.
Cheers Jeffrey! What you described with the computer making pre-selected decisions on your behalf would fall under RTA, and is against pretty much all TOS - so please don't do this.
In games with a 'no flop, no drop' rule, always chop blinds when HU SB vs BB. If you are playing higher stakes with a time charge, then never chop, unless you think the other player is much stronger HU.
i used this strategy back in the day played way over my head 25-50 holdem i would look to win one decent sized pot early and then put my stack on complete lock down unless i got aces or kings. i knew winning a decent size pot and just getting up and leaving is bad etiquette
Nice video. Needs some advice from you and the group. Just getting started playing live. I made just under 1k chopping a tourney pot and am using proceeds to start cash games. I know I have a steel learning curve and plan to eventually play some recs at the local rooms. Theres a decent game with quality players near. Should I play this table to learn from these guys? I am pretty perceptive and see what they are doing even though I know I wont win big and may end up losing on average $100 a week. But I am training for eventual vegas trips during convention week. What do you guys and gals think?
Rake is crazy high here in Prague. It's the equivalent of 5%, $20 cap + $4 at one location and the other location is the same except w/o the +$4 quads plus bonus.
Yuck!
Tells are about 10% of a hand. But paying attention preflop makes a big difference in the hand against recs. $20 an hour at a 100bb game is very doable paying attention to tells. $30 an hour at a 150bb game.
Another important thing that I realized recently is that you should never play 1/2 when the rake is capped at $5 in both the 1/2 and the 2/5 game. In 2/5 you can get over $50 in the pot after one preflop raise and a call. Then all postflop action is unraked. In 1/2 most pots are $50 or less so the entire pot is raked most of the time. Add in the fact that you also should tip $1 on your wins making it best to play extra tight because even though you can usually run over the table of weak players, you pay way too much in rake and tips to make it worth it. A player who can make $50/hr at 2/5 should make $20/hr at 1/2 proportionally, but with rake and tips being such a higher percentage of the pots, you're lucky if you can make $15/hr.
While fair, the BRM requirement for playing $2/$5 is much higher. Plus, +$15/hr for a hobby beats 99% of other available hobbies that are complete money pits =)
@@ThePokerBank I hear that. I can technically afford $2/5 but when I lose $3-4k in a session it makes me think of all the better things I could've spent that money on but didn't because I told myself I couldn't afford it. But somehow I rationalized that I could afford to lose it at poker because maybe I'll win this time.
@@ThePokerBank Define "beats". :) My video game hobby cost me money but brings me far more enjoyment than the momentary gains from poker.
@@smokinjoe4709 I'm not him so I don't know but I think he's just pointing out that if you're winning instead of breaking even or losing then it doesn't really matter if you maximize your profit (in this example trying to make $50 instead of $15 an hour) and it's a cool + unique benefit that you can enjoy playing poker without losing money. I.E. Take what you can get and enjoy winning at whatever stake you're able to play.
@@smokinjoe4709 plus you forgot one other major benefit that he gets over you video game. That is real human interaction and real friends!
Tip -Find out about ppl to kill the time… a lot of online poker ppl don’t like it cas they don’t have ppl skills and are obsessed with winnrates ect…
Live poker is all about selection. I just moved from bay to kc have yet to check the games
if you had to average it out, what % of time do you leave the table up/down and how much is a good amount to make per hour average?
Very nice video and tips, thanks ! What kind of BK do you recommend for 1/2 and 2/4 for hobby playing ?
You're very welcome Nicolas! As for BR, 20BI liquid is typically advised for hobby play
@@ThePokerBank great, thank you. Goal is to go to 2/4 faster since level is apparently similar to 1/2
glgl!
Something really cool about your voice. Very listenable.
Thanks John!
Another consideration is that poker rooms tend to be loud, and you can always catch a loudmouth at your table. And it's also not unheard of for a couple of people to sustain an intrusive conversation whille you're on a hand. So it's not exactly what you're used to. That said, an upside of live poker is sociability. You can strike up quiet conversations without a lot of trouble if you are even the least big sociable.
good information here, do mostly live home games, both cash and small tourneys, no casinos in this tiny, democratic, middle eastern country I live in, but a lot of teh information flows. Was hard getting back to live games after the coivd outage, got into club sit n go's online with all my poker buds around the country. (payments outside of application, need a VPN just to play...).
good basic information to stay conscious about! always good to have a reminder
Cheers Jack!
I play 1/3 in SoCal where the rake is $2+1 on the flop, and max's out at $5+2 WHEN THE POT REACHES $20! Add $1 toke and you're nearing 40% on small pots.
That's brutal =(
Straddles are common in live poker, but for online they practically don't exist. 1/2 games can become 1/2/5 quite often, so be prepared to play for shorter effective stacks and bigger swings.
Nicely said Justin.
While most tells are very player specific, I've found bet timing as well as chip/card handling tells to be easily the most consistently reliable.
I very much agree!
I’d love to see some 2/5 vlogs (:
I'm frightened to gamble especially at poker my dad was a gambler and this puts me off
If you have any fear wrapped around gambling, I fully support you skipping it altogether and wish you luck in whatever other activities you choose!
The grind is real…. I love being super patient. I’ll fold my way into making money almost 100% of the time. I can sit for 15/20 hours never even taking a pee break. I feel like I’m unique hMm 🤔
I might suggest researching "Tycho Brahe" =)
@@ThePokerBank bro… dude died from holding in his pee 🤣 now you got me thinking I should use the bathroom every few hours lmao 🤣
@@steve7189 That's advisable, yes. lol.
I thought maybe play short and tight. Try to get all in early with premium hands. And move between poker rooms in Las Vegas so not sitting at one table too long. Thoughts?
Play at a table where you're the best or second best player. Then have the table covered. That's a much better strategy then just trying to parlay off of an early double up.
My question is: I get the feeling you were talking strictly about 1-2; but is 2-5 roughly the same? Half of the rake pain vanishes at 2-5 -- especially if the BB win rate is similar.
2x+ the BRM requirement and half the rake impact for $2/$5 typically, yup.
@@ThePokerBank Thanks!
Hi Sweeney- I just the core program about 2 and a half months ago over on redchip. . I play mostly on New Jersey PokerStars at the moment. $15 and under tournaments mostly. My win rate from January was 16% but it has jumped up to 22%. So thank you for that. My question is does red chip sell a HUD or recommend a HUD? I am ready to implement one. Thanks!
I started playing full-time at the end of 2019, I hadn't ever played online till then. Id have to suggest DriveHud2. Not only is it super cheap for an awesome piece of software, the customer service is better than any other company I can think of. Usually I get a response from them under an hour. It blows my mind.
GL on the grind
@@3six967 Thanks so much! DriverHudand hold ‘em manager were the only two brands I have recognized so far. So they are both on the shortlist. Thank you so much for the advice.
@@gazorpazorp9798 Hold 'Em Manager & Poker Tracker are the biggest/most well known huds.
You're very welcome, and nice job putting in the work! If you site allows HUD usage, I always suggest PokerTracker 4.
@@ThePokerBank Thanks mate!
One truth I would add to this is that most people defend their blinds way too much. In a slow cash game this can wreck your stack.
Especially against the larger OR sizing in live, I 100% agree with you.
Sometimes if I make a few hundred within the first couple of hours playing 1/2 I will just get out of there, even if the game is good and head home to play some games - I struggle sometimes with the long 6hr+ sessions when you are folding endlessly
Rake in Australian casinos is $15 cap with some home games at $30 cap!
🤣
Wow! That is high!
Jeez
I actually make $36/hour in New Orleans 1-3 harrahs casino. But my city has different variables. Match the stack with most dealers not caring about what you buy in for. Last night I bought into my 1-3 for $5k. $36/ hour and 12bb/hour
Hey if there is no cap i assume opens are huge and blinds are basically useless. I play in a similar game and was wandering what adaptations do you make. Thank you in advance!
Is there a reason they keep it so cold in the poker room?? My local casino is freezing
Cold temps keep you awake. You can't give action if you're sleeping lol
Comparing online vs live is like comparing football vs basketball
Hey now, no need to hate on the money pit that is golf lol.
Jk, keep up the good work the sir! Been enjoying your content for some years now.
Cheers! Hopefully you'll enjoy for years to come too =)
$4 cap for rake in most vegas casinos
How much extra for the promodrop?
Wait lists?
I don't record every hand so I calculate my win rate on bb/hour. Obviosly this isn't as accurate but it gives some sort of guude.
You can then multiply that number (bb/hour) by 3.5 to get bb/100 fwiw 👍
Gotta stop opening KQo and 98s utg in a 9 handed 1/3 game 😭
They can be fine opens in certain games =)
@@ThePokerBank We talked about this with my friend who plays 1/3 in Texas. People don't 3b much and obv flat way too much. Suppose AJo KQo are fine opens then. If people flat ATo KTo say COvUTG
Good video as usual Sweendog.
Cheers VS!
What is your opinion on the Texas hourly rake? Paying 11 bucks or so for 1/3 is that worse than raked pots or better?
If you’re playing about 25 hands an hour you’d need to win about 4BB/25 hands to be marginally profitable. This is equivalent to 16BB/100 hands (pre rake) which feels far too high unless the games are really soft. You’ll have to be very selective with when you play these games. If you lack a big edge, you’ll be losing money. Best advice is to try and track your win rate, you’ll quickly find out if you’re losing money. With a rake like that, there’s no shame avoiding the table!
@@noahhughes127 I think he meant $11 per hour, which is far better than a typical $5+promo max rake per pot. So two winning hands per hour at the rake game is more than $11 per hour. The rake game is probably equivalent to more than $11 per HALF hour, especially if there's a promo drop. Also, live games with a shuffle machine easily get well over 30 hands per hour, closer to 40 at the low stakes. A good win rate live at the low stakes is about 10BB per HOUR, not 100 hands. That translates to about 25-30BB/100.
@@GRice999 ye I got the per hour part, forgot to state I was assuming 25 hands per hour as a worst case. As an online player I don’t know much about live game rakes and am used to much smaller win rates (likely due to multi tabling). Is live poker this soft?!
@@noahhughes127 Yes, even with the higher rakes, promos, and dealer tipping.
Per hour, that time charge is reasonable for the smallest room in the game imo.
I know it is not a popular decision but probably best to avoid tipping the dealer in low-stakes cash games with a bad rake structure. If people complain just say would love to tip, but the rake I am paying makes it not possible. Get upset at the casino for not paying dealers better. The same goes for 21. If you put the work in at counting cards and can find games with beatable rules, you are wasting your time if you are tipping after every win. Your 3/4 to 1% edge will disappear in tips very quickly.
How much can I make playing 1/2 in a single month?
(number of hours you'd play in a month) x (estimated hourly) =
is rake the same in Texas where card rooms charge per hour in a cash game?
Depends on the time charge. ~$10/hr/player is usually fine for the smallest game in the room
lot's of times in these middle of nowhere casinos you're lucky to make twenty hands an hour. like watching paint dry.
Swings are very brutal. I used to play 6 tabling online full ring for 30 hours a week. That's ~42,000 hands per month. You can have some massive swings in 1 month online. The same amount of hands is 1 year playing live full time (2000 hours a year) to put things in perspective.
And I did have that one year live. Luckily I tracked my hands and realized it wasn't me, it was variance in large all in pots killing me.
Variance is no joke =)
What is an optimal to buy-in in live cash 1/2 games? I’m a rec player but did 20 games in last couple of month and never know if I go with 100bb or 250
Before that played a lot online tournaments so both this offline experience and cash games are new to me
Btw, thank you for your videos, really enjoy them!
in my opinion, typically max buy in is best but depends on the table. If table is sitting around 100 BB then if you buy in for 250bb then you have highest risk and lowest reward and opponents have a higher reward factor on doubling up. You won't be able to double up on an all in.
Getting dealt napkins for hours in live poker, creating aka forcing spots with those napkins getting called by all the limpers to only see your napkins whiff the flop as the limp callers lead, call, call directly into your 8x open over those original limpers and you fold. This is live poker leak 101. Been there ;-) 🤣🤣🤣
i have tremors. They have made me money (and cost me0 money as people think they are tells.
Yup
Shalom
Shalom!
I make $30 an hr playing 1/2 over 6 month period.
In ONLINE cash games, you CANNOT win! Impossible. So, lunatics play online, only.
I'm a winning online cash game player.
So only lunatics, but also impossible to win? Hmm.
Would you believe it if I told you someone in Florida makes 40+bb/hr over several years at 2/5?
Not really, unless they played like 2 sessions/year =)
@@ThePokerBank this is around 800 hours a year for several years. How many hours do you think is needed in a sample to confidently say this is an accurate win rate?
An impossibly large number of hours is needed given the super small hands/hr in live games. But to clarify, you are saying this player is clearing $200+/hr over years?
@@ThePokerBank Yes, over $200/hr. What’s the hours you would say is needed?
@@Jlc647 That player is the anomaly then. And winrate can easily take 100K hands to have decent confidence, which in live, would take like 4k hours
Looks like...harrah's???
I think the chips are from Cherokee’s Harrahs. Just from memory, that’s where I’ve seen those chips.
Good eye! Harrah's Cherokee in NC
@@ThePokerBank Haha I am 2/5 reg there maybe we have played before!
Thanks for your content again!
@@ThePokerBank Feel like the rake of the 2/5 game in Harrah's is not bad. It is 10% 7+1. The buying is table max which means you are potentially getting a lot more big pot. If you can play 200 dollar pot on average, it may actually be less than 5% rake. Nevertheless, it really depends on your game selection.
Truth #7
Just say no to GTO
Online one cannot win. That's main difference.
Err......I know somebody who's making $35 an hour.
Don't we all!?
POker teaching Is A Bluff good luck boys ...
I think I know what you mean. Can you explain?
Wat?
@@ThePokerBank We all have own play style , you cant start playing other game stradegy it gonna be disaster..Tip here and there are good
But isn’t more rake better? (#3)
Talk a lot slower
I might suggest changing the replay speed of the video to .75x
FIRST
LAST!
Talks too fast. Slow it down. Less caffeine.
Gear icon > Playback speed > .75 =)
Why you talking shit on golf?
I'm not. It's just not a hobby that has the possibility of financial return for 99.9% of partakers =)
Lol you have a unique opportunity to tell people how you lose in live and online poker.
Before you watch this video, I want you to think about if taking advice from a guy who has been playing poker for 18 years and still plays $1/$2, is in fact a good idea.
Before you comment, I want you to confirm if $1/$2 is my main stake.
I don’t even know if you have a main stake. There is no evidence you are a winning player.
My channel is that evidence. Though I assume you've watched about zero videos of mine.
Scrolled back and see absolutely nothing but red chips. Stop pretending. Stop feeding people stock info and acting like it’s gold. I’ve played at OC for years since it’s open, never saw you in any big games with us. Don’t kid yourself.
Oops nvm, 3 months ago you have a video with 3 green chips. Real crusher. Stop offering advice on something you can’t do yourself. The poker world is packed with charlatans, stop adding to it. I love these idiots who learn how to use a solver or an odds calc, can’t beat local 5/10 but have the audacity to call themselves a coach. It’s genuinely revolting.
I play underground games in nyc and rake is between 50-250 per hand. Gross but they give you dinner, drugs and a bonus
Unless the bonus is "here are thousands of dollars back at the end of your session", that's a game that literally cannot be beaten long term.
@@ThePokerBank some games are 25/25/100. So pots are huge. So even w high rake. You can beat games but it’s tough long term.