Twin Cam Compensator Failure and What You Can Do About It
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- čas přidán 5. 11. 2020
- Compensator failure is no secret and a big issue on Twin Cam engines. This is what happens when the factory puts a part from an 80 cubic inch engine on a 103 cubic engine. You can fix it and even eliminate the problem forever. OEM compensators are prone to failure, especially on the Twin Cam 96. Now while there was a new alternate OEM part number to fix the issue it never completely fixed the problem. When you start adding power and torque to your motor this only increases strain on the compensator. We're going to look at what the options are and how you can even eliminate the compensator altogether.
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These vids are very informative without being too long and wordy; the important info is conveyed efficiently to the viewer. Keep 'em coming and thanks for posting this.
I appreciate that! The goal has been to get the info on these bikes out there all in one place. Thank you for watching and supporting us!
So far in all my CZcams studying and searching for Harley stuff you have the best info also easy to find !!
Wow, thanks! I'm glad the videos have been helpful!
Up until now no problems with my comp on my 07 96ci but only 23k miles , I hope it stays this way, thanks for the great videos Gix
Just found your site. Great info but above all, presentation......Thank you.. I'm 73 and ride a 2004 FXDL. Hydraulic cam chain tensioners kit just completed at 62000km by Motorcycles and More in Kingston, On, Ca. Leaving on a solo trip from Kingston to Calgary and back Aug 01.
How was your trip?
July 2020: I replaced SE compensator on my 2013 103-stage 2 with a Man O-War. This year & 15,000+ miles later, I replaced the 103 with a 120ST based on a video of yours. The Man O-War had no noticeable wear. It's now on the 120 and quiet as before. Very happy with the product as I ride the bike hard, lots of W-O-T and clutch less shifting.
That's awesome to hear! Dark Horse is the way to go!
I swapped out my broken OEM compensator out with a Baker Compensator and installed a Baker manual primary chain tensioner about two years ago. Both were found broken when I pulled my inner primary out here last month. Went back with a Darkhorse Man O War motorsprocket and original chain tensioner.
Professional Content Explained Very Well in Layman's terms ,,Awesome
Thank you! I appreciate it, nobody really wants an engineer explaining how to screw in a light bulb. I hope the content has been helpul!
I have watched many of your videos.
The videos are excellent . I am trying to get more power on my 08 FLHRC.
I'm going to get that power this winter.
Another sign of them going out is hard starting when the engine is warm. Just started experiencing that myself.
yes, that was my first sign, i have a 2005 fatboy. After hearing the bang at HOT start up, MONTH later, it failed!! I have a comp. eliminator , from BDL, i love it!! a little vibration at high speeds, but other than that, Its Awesome!! very happy.
As always, it's always good to see brother 💯 🤜🏼💥
Thank you! It's good to be back and hearing from everyone again!
@@GixxerFoo 👍🏼
dont forget you can also change yer final gearing with a comp eliminator...made a huge diff on my breakout
Thanks for info on the 96!
No problem 👍 The 96 is great platform to build on and you can buy them pretty cheap compared to 103's. Just change a few here's and there's and you've got a solid bike for well under the price of a used 103.
Also another overlooked aspect of a cheap way of increasing torque is to run a 1-2 tooth smaller sprocket on the compensator. Especially if you run a 6 speed conversion on a TC-88, alot of gearing options open up
That's a really good point and it is quite overlooked. It's almost a must running a six speed on the 88, just about every company that sells the eliminator has tooth options.
Great Video man keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Dark horse makes a amazing compensator for a fuzz over cost of screaming eagle. It’s also serviceable for about $40 instead of needing a new compensator years later
Yes! Their eliminator with the cush drive is one the best ideas anyone has ever come up with!
@@GixxerFoo I went with the Man O War with no regrets.
FYI, Also have to purchase a new rotor, 200 bucks if you change to screaming eagle, man o war etc.
@@paulbouverette503 not true. Just did one on a 16 fatboy s and used the hd rotor
I put a Man O War on my stock 2016 Ultra Limited with 27,000 miles. After one ride my bike started making a horrendous noise with a harsh vibration. The shop tore it back down, torqued everything again, same problem. Ended up with new stock compensator (Screaming Eagle) after all that. BTW, it rattled since new but progressively got worse. I've owned 4 brand new Harleys all of which all had problems. The bike is being put up for sale. Back to a good ol reliable metric rice burning SOB 😉.
Love your stuff man!
Thank you I appreciate it! I hope it has been helpful!
Great lesson.
Thanks.
Compensators are a total pain, especially when they keep failing!
My FXB has a compensator consisting of just big rubber blocks, as you often see on other brands in the rear wheel sprocket assembly.
That's interesting, Dark Horse has an eliminator that uses a cush drive.
Excellent information, I had no idea.
Glad it was helpful! I really appreciate you watching, I really like getting the information out there for everyone.
BDL Belt Drive. Love the clatter.
They make some awesome conversion kits!
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching! I really appreciate your support and I hope it was helpful.
Thanks for the video.
What about the main bearings?
The main bearings using a solid sprocket?
Great info bro! Thanks!
No problem 👍 I hope it was helpful!
While you are in there. Ditch the auto tensioner. Actually. Ditch it first thing and save your bearings. All of them. There are plenty of good options. Years ago I used the Hayden M6. It was a good inexpensive option.
I shared my compensator nightmare in one of your last videos but the gist of it was it exploded my starter gear which got lodged under the clutch hub assembly and the chain which prevented the ability to push start.
The only thing I would like to add here about compensator eliminators is that even a compensator will crack the teeth off of the stock clutch hub assembly on the main transition shaft meaning that if you pull the clutch basket flip it over and look at it You're going to see gears missing on a normal stock unit....The compensator eliminator is going to double or triple the stress on these gear teeth so if you're going to run a comp eliminator and you're going to keep a stock clutch hub assembly you're going to shred it in no time. If you've priced billet clutch hub assemblies you might change your mind about running a comp eliminator. Just my two cents from someone who's seen clutch hub assembly teeth shredded from just a standard compensator.
I remember you saying you had a huge mess in there when yours let go, that was the trifecta of compensator failure. I should of featured the Dark Horse eliminator, it actually has a cush drive built into it which can be rebuilt if need be. I was really surprised to hear about such frequent failures even with the top of the line compensators out there.
Thanks for that tidbit bro, I heard that from other sources also,,so I think I will install a better type starter comp and let it eat. 👍🤓
My friend is going thru the same thing with his 2010 roadglide he has had the clutch hub replaced two times since he bought the bike in 2019 now its down because there are 3 broken teeth on the clutch hub and the bike wont start what options do he have for a better clutch hub u cant find any real info on youtube
You left out the best option that's from Dark Horse the man of war compensator great affordable price best option on the market
I'll have to do a follow up and cover the Dark Horse, they make some really good products. Dark Horse is popular with a lot of guys doing rebuilds, I have heard a lot of good things about their crankshafts too.
That’s what I’m gona get !!👍
That's one excellent eliminator with that cush drive!
Dark Horse is also my choice when I make the change. Kevin Baxter did a nice review with John from DH.
I would have to agree onnthe Dark Horse, l think they got it right with that cush drive setup.
Another great videos. Thank you for all those they are very useful.
In the next days I will upgrade my 2009 Rocker (+/- 28583 miles) from 96 to 110 with the S&S Power Package. I already upgraded the clutch. Someone told me about the compensator and now I found your video. Perfect.
I'm wondering if I should order an eliminator right now and install it OR wait to see if the stock compensator will manage the new power? Can you give me your thoughts on this please?
I had a deap scratch on the outer primary cover. I ordered a new cover. The part number changed by adding an A to the number. The need to add the plastic oil deflectors have been eliminated and are now built into the cover.
One little change and you get a new part number which can cause some confusion if they don't note it!
I have an 09 Heritage with the 96b engine and am experiencing an occasional loud thunk when I go to start my bike and it's like I have a weak battery and sometimes am having issues in first so I am sure my compensator is having problems, my bike has just under 13k on the clock. The last few days I have been researching enough to make my head spin and have pretty much decided to get the Baker compensator and their chain tensioner kit / primary install package....what I see reference to everywhere is people saying you need to get a different stator cover, but NOBODY says anything other than that so I have questions...
Is the stator cover I need sourced on specific models of Harleys, if so what years?, are they sourced from a specific size engine? if so what size? Can I buy this part from Harley new? if so is it called simply the stator cover? and does it come with the magnets?
Seems like somone would have added this important information in at least one video but none out of the many many videos I have seen so far have said a thing about the stator cover except to say that you need one to install any of these solutions that involve installing a different compensator.
Thanks in advance for the help.
What about the effect on stator? 89 883 my brother(in 91) had Dealership put on 1200 kit, immediately stator gone....replaced several times, same thing......but the compensator was never changed, or even checked that I know of.
I dont have any trouble finding neutral or first gear, i don't hear any wierd noises while driving or idling, no wierd vibrations but every once in a while when i go to start it there is a loud CLANK, which scares the hell outta me sounds horrible, is this normal or should i be looking to replace the compensator? Is there a way to service this one to make the CLANK stop when starting? What will happen if it goes completely out?
great content
08 FLSTC found broken compensator spring. Is inside rotor spring cup.Swapped to drag specialty rotor w. Spring and now goes into neutral pretty easy. Lots better that before barley ever could find neutral, took possibly 5 tries or more if ever went to neutral. Also adjusted the primary chain adjuster is manual adjustment not auto
I've experienced starter grind and hard startups when warm with a 96 touring. I don't want to assume the comp is bad because it doesn't really make noise otherwise. Leaning towards an eliminator to save cost and rotating mass weight. But with 40k on the motor I don't want to wear it out prematurely.
Hey there,
I see you commented about a year back...did you replace the compensator yet?
My 96" also presents with what you describe.
Thanks man
Did you replace it with an elliminator yet ?
Just picked up a pristine '08 Road Glide. Compensator seems fine with stock motor but I'm thinking of doing a simple cam upgrade either the Wood TW222 or 6-6. Given the anticipated bump in torque, would you consider upgrading the compensator or letting it ride to see how it holds up? In other words pro-active or wait and see??
It wouldn't hurt to upgrade the compensator with the cam, but you could do the cam upgrade and let the compensator ride for while. Basically what Harley did around 2010 was make the Screamin Eagle compensator the OEM. The SE is good upgrade but if you want to spend a little more you can get the Dark Horse compensator eliminator with the rebuildable cush drive, those things are awesome!
I had a early baker fail also...
Whats your thoughts on running an eliminator in a twin cam without welding the crank? I have an 08 twin cam 96 that I recently installed woods 222 cams. Next I was going in the other side to replace the primary chain tensioner to a manual one and was thinking of eliminating the compensator while I'm in there.
I would go with a Dark Horse eliminator, it has a cush drive and it's rebuildable.
I've got a "comp eliminator" in my twin cam... but I also have an S&S crank... it's a 107 now, ported heads, S&S 585s and 10.25:1 compression. Also put a Trask billet basket in just to be safe... Final drive is chain 24/51.... she rips and is put together so well that I can't even tell the compensator is gone...
Still running ok? Any high speed long distance ?
So maybe a dumb question, but I'm gonna get the SE124R crate motor, and to get ready for that power, I was planning on the Baker compensator and the Alloy Arts Cush Chain Drive. Is that overkill?
Not at all! Upgrading there will help prevent issues down the road. Running OEM parts won't hold up nearly as well.
@dirtbagscalifornia what year is this Road King? 14” apes by who?? What model? This bike is beautiful. Great build. 👍👍👍
Words of wisdom cheer buddy
Thank you, cheers and thank your supporting our channel!
Good video.
Thank you! I hope it was helpful!
I watch a lot of stuff on these inter-webs. You know your shit. Thanks for the videos.
I have a 2012 rgu it came with a sc comp and it went out at 52,000 miles replaced it with Baker and only got 50,000 miles I contacted baker and the tech said that was pretty good for comp so I went back to sc I was thinking about doing the eliminator if it starts acting up.
That's exactly what is pushing me more to the eliminator, I am going to have to a follow up video and include the Dark Horse eliminator. It even has a cush drive built into the unit, you rarely heard of compensator failures on the Evo or Twin Cam 88.
My '09 Road King suffered from the compensator issue(after 65k miles), I replaced with the Screamin Eagle compensator and so far so good, fingers crossed.
That's impressive getting 65K out of an OEM on a 96, 2009 was one of the years they had some serious issues with failures.
85,000 on an Ultra, made multiple videos so my nearest H-D dealer could hear the issue. I’m no mechanic after searching on CZcams I told him what I thought the issue was. He said he never heard of that and of course never figured it out. I got rid of the bike and bought another bike from a out of town dealer. Purchased two more since then and have multiple friends who all bought 2021 bikes. Of course not from the first dealer. Great video brother 😎
@@Heritagejim5339 Yeah, it's sometimes hard to find a good mechanic willing to listen, when I started having issues with mine I took it to my local dealer to have them inspect the compensator, knowing full well that was the issue, after a few days the dealer called me to tell me the compensator was fine and nothing was wrong with it, now I'm no dummy when it comes to all things mechanical, my father was a mechanic and built/raced drag cars for many years and was also a motorcycle enthusiast himself, I myself took 2 1/2 years of auto mechanics in school, so I knew the dealer was just blowing smoke up my a$$ and probably didn't want to be bothered by it, after several weeks of dealing with the issue, I took it back to the dealer and told them to replace it regardless, after another few days the dealer called me to tell me that I was correct that the compensator was bad and not only that but it also took out the lefty bearing and also needed replacement. So, the moral of the story: if you find a good mechanic, stick with him/her regardless of which dealer they work for.
So I did the 110 tire shredder full all supporting mods and now I have what almost sounds like valve noise in my primary and also a light clicking when accelerating or rolling on throttle
First off if you have a 07 to 09 bike you have to have a compensater the chances of turning the flywheels with a solid sprocket is a sure thing solid sprockets are available with less teeth than stock also if you want to add some acceleration as far as compensaters go the stock 96 comp is junk it will without a doubt will break the splines out of clutch hub & if left alone will take out the starter drive .the screaming eagle will also fail in the end ! I recommend a solid sprocket but if your short of cash I have welded both of those compensaters with good results ! Just remember if you slow down down shift or your gonna get some jerking just like a belt drive primary would do ! 07 to 09 bikes would surely turn the flywheels out of true with that jerking ! Anyway I like your videos keep it up !
That's some good information about 07 to 09, welding them up is a really good idea! Just takes a little adjustment of you're riding style when you do that. Those fly wheels have always been something that's concerned me, you would think something pressed at 40K PSI would run out of true like that. I appreciate you watching, I'll be keeping at it for sure!
I have an 02 road king, makes the same kind of noise.. is it possible to be the compensator with it being a twin cam 88?
Very possible, compensators do fail eventually in all motors. The compensator in the early years of the 96 had issues and failed early on.
I have a stock 2011 heritage classic when I turn bike off it has a double knock in compensator area
Thoughts
Is this a issue with stock motors as well? I do all fluids at recommend intervals and don't run it hard.
Is it a 88" issue or 96"/103" problem.
The problem is with the compensator itself, it just wasn't what it should of been to handle the torque of the motor.
Hey buddy another great video! I have an 07 street glide with 6 speed trans and I just changed the fluid and there was a decent amount of small shiny metal flakes along with quite a lot of friction material. Ive only owned it 4 months now and am curious if you know roughly how much it's going to cost to have it rebuilt? Just ballpark or something I know it varies.. I'm out here in AZ and a single father I hope this doesn't hurt too bad on the ol cc..
You can order a new SE trans for about 2500, gear sets l think about 1700. Getting one rebuilt by a indy shop should be a bit cheaper.
@@GixxerFoo Okay, thank you so much for your response!! Where's the best place to find one of those SE transmissions?
Most other brands have the buffering built into the clutch basket.
That's something Harley hasn't caught onto yet unfortunately
I went with a Twin Power compensator on my 107 TC (117HP/123TQ). It works perfect. Bike starts like it should and it's quiet. I did try the Twin Power chain tensioner, what a POS that was. Loud, didn't last 1200 miles before it came apart. Changed to a Baker unit, now it's all good. I paid hundreds less for the Twin Power over the Baker... HUNDREDS!!!
I am convinced the eliminator is the way to go, compensators just don't last. Did you go with a manual chain adjuster?
@@GixxerFoo ... I had Baker on the brain when I made my comment but remembered I went with the Hayden M6 tensioner. Easy to install, really quiet.
Hayden makes a good solid product!
I'm slowly being convinced NOT to upgrade the HP on my 2000 wide glide.
You are talking here of problems with the compensator. Mine has 85,000 on the OEM and no trouble. Sure as I swap for the S&S 509 cam you recommended in another video, I'll start having problems. Plus, the local harley guy tells me if I install the 509 cam it will be opening the valves a fraction higher which means the stem will move farther into an area previously untouched. The slightest bit of debris or grit there will soon damage the valve seals and then I will be burning oil.
Thanks for the reviews, I greatly appreciate them and will save all your videos for future reference.
They had better compensators on the 88's, being a 2000 model it had the best bottom end they ever put in the twin cam. If they'd of left that part alone the Twin Cam would of been a very solid platform.
@@GixxerFoo WOW, So I really DID luck out. I'm just now swapping the cam shoe tensioners. They are about 60% gone just looking at them still in the bike. It has 85,000 miles!. But, I seldom rev above 3,000, don't need to, it pulls really strong. I have ridden with other 88's and some 95's and I have no trouble keeping up with them even shifting at 3,500. I have used Amsoil since the second oil change and change every 5,000 miles. So evidently the Amsoil really does a better job of lubing.
That's awesome! That's some incredible miles on a set of tensioners in an 88. There's a lot to be said about the first gen 88's they are pretty reliable.
cool video ..i like my 103..
103 is a great bike, they had pretty much all the issues from the 96 worked out by then.
This may be a dumb question but would a 2008 CVO SE Road King 110 have the upgraded compensator, or did they leave the primary the same as oem?
Please do an vid in primary enclosed belt drive !
I have a 2016RGS with 40k miles. What do you suggest? Engine wise?
I didn't list it in the video and l absolutely should of, the Dark Horse compensator eliminator. It's kinda the best of both worlds. It's the simplicity and reliability of an eliminator but with a cush drive built in.
To be honest, I did replace my OE comp sprocket with a Baker, and it didn’t actually last much longer. About 60k mi out of each. Now, to be fair, I bought the bike at 45k mi, and I think previous owners rode her a little less hard than I do. I do beat the hell out of Felicity, so I do take that into consideration. I’m also only Stage 1 96ci, so there’s that. Is Baker a bad product? I don’t think so, but I don’t think the extra expense was worth it. I’m thinking about the rebuildable Man-o-war next.
salve su un Dyna del 2010 ho sistituito il compensatore originale con uno fisso senza molle quello della Drag, lasciando il tendicatena originale hd a regolazione automatica potrei avere problemi?
il motore ha 80000 miglia e per ora è migliorato molto, ma tutti me lo hanno sconsigliato dicendo che tra un pò macinero' tutto, Che consiglio mi date?
I tried a compensator eliminator, and also , found that it increases the noise and vibration, Then replaced the OEM compensator, and found springs, to place in the original rotor, now all quiet, like It was when I bought It.
Hey man, I found you and subbed. I have watched many videos so far and enjoy them very much.
I have a 09 Heritage Softail with around 12k miles on it.
I am torn on deciding which compensator solution to go with.
If it were your bike which would you put on it... The Baker, or the Darkhorse cush drive comp delete and why would you chose it?
Thanks in advance, after watching your vids now I am concerned about crank run out. I am not planning on adding cams or big bore, just pipes air cleaner and thundermax tuner
I would go with the Dark Horse, that cush drive takes up a lot of the shock like the compensator and it's rebuildable. Plus I trust Dark Horse products, they really know what they are doing over there! I wouldn't worry too much on the crank run out, it doesn't sound like you beat on your bike really hard and your not getting crazy with the power.
@@GixxerFoo i really appreciate your input bro, i have seen a couple of the Baker unit owners have to replace theirs due to wear and only want to spend once. i dont mind rebuilding it, but didnt want to re buy another Baker lol my heritage has 12k on it. i never do burnouts but i do ride hard from time to time. i had a 103ci softail slim and this 96ci has great torque like you said, thats why im not putting cams in this one. its plenty for me, i have the thundermax and hi flo filter waiting to go on, just waiting to do the compensator job at the same time since i am running vnh true duals so i do the work once.
@@GixxerFoo yeah I think thats what I am going to do, and use the Baker manual primary chain adjuster, and source a stator rotor cover from baker since its back ordered from Ironhorse. I just noticed you are bugs with Saddle Tramp, are you going to the Arkansas rally this coming Sept? I am planning on meeting Tramp up there
You might want to check out the Dark Horse compensator install at Late night V-twin. It sounds like a reasonably priced alternative. And while your there what's your opinion on the fixed adjustable chain tensioner?
The Dark Horse compensator eliminator with the cush drive is the way to go, it's even rebuildable! I personally prefer the manual adjusters, the factory automatic I believe causes a lot of the most common problems with the crank and the trans.
I like the "Late Night VTwin" video, at the end.. he throws the SE in the junk box !!
Lol I bought a 2007 harley davidson softail custom with 14,000 miles today. I stopped at Harley dealership today. I asked about the compensator and the auto primary chain tensioner. The mechanic said I've never heard of any going bad. Maybe a couple between 40,000 dealerships. I never trust them....
Right, Its hard to believe but a lot of dealers wouldn't care If your bike had to come in for a trade in to buy a "New Bike" .
It's depressing HD still hasn't properly addressed this issue after so many years of a well known shortcoming
For whatever reason they carried the compensator from the 88 over to the 96 and that's when the trouble started. They finally updated it and that seemed to take care of the issue.
Someone pleeeease help. So when I have my starter wire plugged in to my starter (12Street glide) it use to rattle like rocks in the primary. I put a plunger button on the starter and start it that way. No issues when I leave the wire to the start unplugged. Just yesterday I went to trade the bike in and noticed the noise that sounds like the starter engaging was happening when I pulled on the front brake lever. Also the bike has a loud clunk when shutting off wether it’s in gear or neutral. I wonder if replacing the compensator will fix that issue?
Review the Crankworks man o war compensator.$500.00 for the twin cam engine and if you wear it out, the rebuild kit is $40.00.
It's hared to beat that cush drive sprocket they have! They are only ones that building one like that!
I want to fit an S&S 124 in my 09 StreetGlide, do I need to change any other components. Thanks
With a complete engine swap I would do a compensator eliminator like the DarkHorse and for sure invest in a good clutch setup to handle the power of that motor. Other than that the trans will hold up just fine, you might consider a good manual tensioner setup as well.
I probably did a dumb thing and just added an ebay used comp spring into my existing pack of 3 springs on my new to me stage 4 2000 fxdwg. its kinda solid now, hopefully I didn't do a bad thing?!?!?
I'm going with the screaming eagle. I appreciate your video.
hope Baker's new design is better than their last model. Mine failed after low mileage. not sure I want to trust them again so I'm gonna try out Dark Horse's version.
I honestly feel like the Dark Horse eliminator is the way to go, it has that cush drive and it is rebuildable.
I test rode a 2000cc Kawasaki Vulcan once and am now wondering if they have a compensator and what would the difference be. I have never heard of a compensator failure in a big Kawi and I'm telling you they are huge and put out gobs of power. Everyone who tested it came back with a huge grin :) I will not part with my Ultra, but sometimes I wonder why the motor company keeps having issues.
The Kawasaki is completely gear driven primary system which doesn't use the compensator like the Harley. Harley made a mistake by carrying over the compensator from the 88 basically, the torque of the 96 caused some issues. They did make the SE compensator the OEM part in 2010 which took care of the issues.
Does this work on the 2005 Road King?
Are you looking for a upgraded compensator or an eliminator kit?
Have you taken a look at the BDL CS-25A-1 compensator and if so what are your thoughts?
Read my post above Lionel. The BDL is what I use in my shop, highly recommended. SARGE
That's a solid product, they make some good primary conversion kits as well. Not a bad price at all either, especially when they can be had for around 100 bucks.
I am very pleased with my BDL CS-34A compensator and Scott provided outstanding tech to answer questions. I think a lot of people don’t follow the instructions that have any problems. Mine has been awesome and I love the simple design that works.
Does anyone have the part number for the Screamin Eagle compensator?
Was/is this an issue on the TC88 engines?
This wasn't a huge issue with the 88, not say it doesn't happen. This issue really started to happen on the 96, Harley updated the compensator and reduced the amount of failures. This updated compensator went into the 103, they still fail but it's not nearly as often as it was with the pre-update compensator on the 96.
Hey GixxerFoo, I'm having an awkward time going from 2nd gear to neutral (1st to neutral seem impossible). The 103 Softail has only done 5000 miles and I don't hear any clunking noise from the primary drive area, so I'm confident that it's not my compensator, but I could be wrong about that, however what other things can cause finding neutral hard to find?
That's really interesting, It could be something simple like the shifter linkage. I had to eat some serious crow with my wife's bike, she was having a similar issue and I thought it was just her. Turned out her linkage just needed to be adjusted. With that low of mileage I would find it hard to believe you'd be having an internal transmission issue. This may sound crazy but some bikes are finicky, what primary fluid are running? I've had friends switch to Amsoil, Redline etc, just something inexpensive and it took care of it.
@@GixxerFoo I think your suggestion of changing the oil in the primary drive & transmission is good advice, because I bought the bike used and the previous owner seemed to be the type of guy who thought he knew better than HD and changed all his fluids because he thought that the OEM interval was too long for him. I might message him and ask if he changed the primary drive & transmission oil & what type he used. For me, it's not a huge deal at the moment, but I'm determined to get it sorted, and when I do I shall report back to you with the outcome.
There's nothing wrong with changing it more frequently and the service intervals are quite long on the primary and transmission. Trying some aftermarket fluids is a good place to start and one of the most inexpensive places to start. Sometimes trying an aftermarket fluid can really make a difference.
@@GixxerFoo What's the best recommendation for the 3 types of oils for the 103? It gets a bit hot here in summer where I live and occasionally get stuck in city traffic, however it's probably no hotter here than the hot states of the US.
Personally l would look into Amsoil or Redline, you can use dedicated fluids or run their 20w50 full synthetic oil. With the issues you're experiencing l would try their dedicated primary and transmission fluids. They claim to really help with finding neutral, it's worked on a couple of my friends twin cams. We couldn't find anything mechanically wrong other than neutral was difficult to find.
solid compensator kit?
With al the failures going on it doesn't look like it's too bad of an idea. One kit I didn't feature and should of is the Dark Horse compensator eliminator. It actually has a cush drive built in, you get the cushion of the compensator and the simplicity of just a sprocket in there.
My '09 Deluxe is starting hard after it's warmed up; cold is no issue. I don't want to assume it's the compensator because if needed I would go all out with a Man O' War from Dark Horse. Strange thing is, if I don't let the fuel pump prime fully before starting there isn't an issue with a hard start. Anyone else have issue with a solution? Could be the starter clutch, battery, etc...not sure where to start.
Will be opening up the primary anyways to replace the stock tensioner so I'll take a look at the compensator as well.
I have a V-TWIN POWER compensator eliminator, no more clunking, with a M6 chain tensioner and screaming eagle pressure plate, it all works great together.
How does that setup compare with OEM for vibration and mechanical noise? I've got a TC96 in a 2010 Road King.
@@mose717 I have a TC96, 2010 Road Glide with S&S 585 cams. The bike produces 92hp,102bt. There is no vibration or mechanical noise coming from the primary case, shifts great and drives smooth.
@@tb5118 Thanks for sharing. Did you also upgrade the bearings, cam plate and oil pump? The ultimate goal for me is a dead reliable, bulletproof kind of setup that is smooth and has more power but nothing really crazy since this is a daily rider/commuter. The bike also has almost 50K on the clock so it makes sense to start thinking about dealing with the common issues before they become a big deal. I'm also nobody"s idea of a mechanic. This is the first Harley I've owned and the truly vast array of choices can be bewildering.
That's a sweet cam for the 96, you got some pretty impressive numbers too out of it. Do you have any other engine work or is that just a cam swap?
That's an interesting combination, I really like those pressure plates. They are an awesome upgrade when you get into building some power on your bike.
Woulda been nice to hear any thoughts on the BDL compensator
Let me check into them, l haven't heard much about them.
@@GixxerFoo I read a lot of negative comments about BDL compensator, but I took a chance and love mine. What I think is the instructions aren’t followed by the average person installing them. I’ve had mine for several month and 3K miles so far. I’ll see in the long term, but so far love it.
yes me as well. i also went with a BDL, so nervous, hearing the horror stories, b ut i guess we showed them wrong, eh. I love mine too, i went with a 25 tooth solid sproket elimintaor! I just started to hear a little metal on metal sound at start up,didnt have it until i just turned 200 miles on it. But just hear it on start up, after 5 minutes, goes away, love the throttle response, now....just a little vibration at 90+ but dealable....how about you bro?
I have the 34 tooth compensator. 20,000 miles on it. No problems aside from I smashed that plastic or urethane washer piece about 15,000 miles in. 100 Hp 100 tq dyna. Doesn’t seem noisy and does leave me in a parking lot with bad noises coming from it like the stock did. I removed that shroud on the charging rotor from the stock one off and lined it up right. I’m happy with it. Figured it beats totally eliminating a compensator.
Which compensator would you go with or would you choose a compensator eliminator?
There's got to be a reason why HD would choose to use a compensator instead of a cost savings sprocket. My current 96 only has 3500 miles on it but when it comes time to replace I don't think I'll go with an eliminator. Does no one have shifting and neutral finding issues by using an eliminator?
MAN O-WAR Motorsprocket
The guys that run them love them, to me it's kinda like the dark siders and the car tire on the motorcycle 😆.
I am really starting to hear good things about those!
@@hotdotdog
No my shovelhead has a solid motor sprocket & goes into neutral very easy shifts easy & actually cut down on vibration. My 15 RK came with the screaming screaming eagle compensator oem
From what I understand, SE and other compensators are good for 2007 and up bikes only, so what someone with a 2003 Softail should do for better compensator??
I'm in the same boat. I've got an 02 heritage. 95". Got some starter noise when warm. Can't seem to find a decent replacement. All of them are 06 or newer.
@@billanderson2763 Yes. So, I did more research (I had an 06 as well with comp issues) and there are a couple of options for us: 1) compensator eliminator: there is NO unified view on it, some say eliminate some say don't 2) which is what I've been doing (coz all HD bikes have compensator issues including 07 and up, 16 was a good compensator) every 20K or 30K miles I install a new compensator which is NOT HD compensator, you can go with just replacing the sprocket spring plate if your comp teeth are still in a great condition which will save you about $100, but from my experience, and others, the bolt gets worn as well mainly if you ride hard and a lot. Ultimately, it depends on how you ride and how many miles on your bike and how well you maintain it. Now, if you always hear a "starter noise" whether the bike is cold or hot it might not be the compensator. And a real compensator issue makes a much more horrible sound than a "starter noise" it sounds like you have metal bolts running inside your primary, not like your starter doesn't engage. You might just need a clutch adjustment (I just recently solved a "comp" issue for a friend by adjusting his clutch, and changing all fluids.
I actually built a really super fast 98 cube shovel but heads only look shovel crank has been turned up like a stroker but using better steel, rods are carbon fibre and I have been told that it would never work but while it works you really can't call it a Harley Davidson anymore but its a lot of fun and simply sounds like a stroker but yeah looks are different.
Ha G foo,what about man o war for the 96ciB moter? What is a good parts dealer in AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺? CAM plat wood cams man o war crank , can man o war crank go with nedel roler bearing or need timken conversion, and compensater, I think that is it , 🤞👊
Does S&S make compensators ?
I think that's only product S&S hasn't made yet is a compensator!
Drag Specialties Comp had issues when installed into my 2009 FLHTCU last year. It made a lot of chattering noise. My Indy shop told ne to bring it in again and they installed the SE comp. Come to find out that there was an issue with the DS comps at the time I had it installed that DS did not disclose to its dealers. I later found a Dark horse Man of War pulse absorbing rebuildable sprocket that eliminates the Comp. I may go with thw Dark Horse next time.
That Dark Horse is the way to go!
Yep The Crank Works compensator is Strongest.
@@GixxerFoo Good to know next time.
Harley shops recommend SE parts, because they are HD parts, just better than stock quality.
I own a stock 88ci TC. Do I even need a compensator?
If you want to run a sprocket in place of a compensator, just be sure to keep the Primary chain tension at the proper slack. Too tight, can ruine the sprocket, the primary chain, and the clutch. Not to mention what happens when you run a tight primary chain, and how it pulls the engine and clutch together, until something gives! Not in a good way.
That's good point! You want a manual adjuster with a sprocket, those automatics are known to over tighten the primary chain.
How about the Darkhorse Man O-War Compensator? I hear it is better then HD or Baker and it's rebuildable and cheaper then replacing the hole unit.
I would go with the Dark Horse personally, it's simpler and rebuildable too!
Hai.. my Fatboy had an issue while starting time i am hearing a big cluk sound from primary and second time bike starting smoothly...I am experiencing this issue not in every start...
Why not highlight what you’re talking about in the images that pop up? Would be helpful. Thanks great content.
What's your take on the Man' O' War Motor sprocket from Dark Horse?
I should of included that one in the video, there seems to be a real consensus on that's one of the best to go with. I am going to have to do a follow up covering that product, it actually has a cush drive built into it to absorb vibrations like the compensator would. But you don't have all the failure points the compensator has.
@@GixxerFoo I recently swapped to the man o war and can vouch for it... I love it and I also went down to the 32 tooth vs the 34 so now 6th gear is much more pleasant of a cruising and passing gear...
Do I need the 070 spacer for the 2005 15th anniversary I hear a clapping compensated sound when starting not turning off just starting and at hard throttle I hear a clapping they say I need a spacer I have a biker's choice compensator on there now
You might try that, but that noise is usually indicative of the compensator beginning to let go.
i just put another compensator on from to much rubbing wearing out..s&s flywheel i do have so eliminator is next for me
The Dark Horse is a really good one to go with, it has a built in cush drive that is rebuildable too.
i have a 107 mackie kit 110 torq 115 hp im mapping now will do a video later on mapping f-ing with my timing ..i needed to retard down low and add up high ..i beat fools racing street all the time..im starting a race channel soon ..much respect ..i will be going to the dark horse soon
Damn you're making some good power! Get that tuning dialed in and it should be good for even more. Let me know when you get that channel up.
@@GixxerFoo check it the gas station home boy i just did dual disc frankinstein front end with 06 vrod lowers and race tech internals trike brakes
Damn that's slick! I'll have to go check this out!
I regard the entire compensator idea with contempt. No wonder only HD used them but mine go into the trash and I run solid front sprockets instead. (Calling them "compensator eliminators" is marketroid BS but helps buyers digest paying for what should have been there in the first place.) The best compensator is none and the vibe difference is trivial.
A friend had the compensator nut fail on a long ride I was on with him. I just laughed at the crappy Orem design. These strange issues never happen on the Honda’s I ride.
No mention of the Dark Horse ?
Just curious, why is your channel name gixerfoo when you're always talking about harleys
I used to ride sport bikes and l was in a club years ago. I had a GSX-R 1000 at the time and the name just kinda stuck with me over the years.
Are there rideability or other issues with the eliminator?
I have rode bikes with an eliminator and l really didn't notice any difference. Some say you might have a little more vibration but l didn't notice it personally. There's been a lot of miles put on with eliminators without issue. One l didn't mention was the Dark Horse eliminator, it has a cush drive built into it. That sounds like the way to go to split the difference in a compensator or eliminator.
@@GixxerFoo
With the belt final drive to absorb the shocks it would seem unnecessary to have anything like a compensator but chain drives might get hairy like on sportbikes with custom wheels without a cush drive hub.
That's basically what the Dark Horse is, a sprocket with a cush drive like you see on the rear wheels of sport bikes.
Don't forget about the chain tensioner. That's the most important part to be changed. Especially on a Dyna. I'm disappointed in Harley that its not a factory recall.
That's a really sketchy situation with Harley, they never publicly admitted it was problem. But they quietly repaired them they came in, for most people anyhow. It was really bad up through the 2002 model year and they seemed to get it lined out a bit after 2003. 2006 dyna and then Softail and Touring models finally saw the hydraulic tensioners. That still didn't completely remedy it as they still wear out by 60K.
@@GixxerFoo Agreed!
Time for a new design. Maybe like a mini Sprocket on the same hydraulic piston? With an oiled bearing? Last forever!
I wish they just go back to that gear drive system but they tend to get noisy over time. Not so good for meeting government requirements.
I tried a compensator eliminator and hated it. Removed it from my bike, you could hear the chain being jerked with the pulses of the motor. I don't know if Baker carries compensators for Evo's
If I had an Evo, I would be replacing the OEM compensator with a New OEM, and get that New off the showroom floor operation back in doing so.
@Randy McCalla I simply added another spring washer it's fine now