Thanks for watching ya’ll it was a pleasure hosting the UNDECIDED series. How I like to think of the UNDECIDED group is potentially many of you watching and in the comment section. Would love to hear your thoughts.
I used to like when Jubilee would provide a 'fact check' when people throw out random statistics/facts. If you could bring that back in the future, it would help your content a lot!
Yess they need to do this! It’d get rid of any “facts” that were thrown out during the debate that us, the viewers, could believe as true and lead to even more misinformation.
To be honest, I'm disappointed that they didn't point out the following two things: 1. That the American Psychiatric Association (which publishes the now-aging DSM-5) no longer considers being transgender to be a mental disorder. They just list 'gender dysphoria' which they define as "clinically significant distress or impairment *related to* gender incongruence" (i.e. not the gender incongruence itself, since they recognize that not all trans people live with dysphoria). Similarly, the World Health Organization (which published the 11th edition of the International Classification of Diseases in 2022) no longer considers 'gender incongruence' to be a mental disorder, point blank. 2. That post-mortem and in-vivo studies have consistently found (and are still finding) that the brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with than the brains of the gender they were assigned at birth. This is true even in trans people who have *yet* to undergo any pharmaceuticals or other medical procedures. The understanding here is that one's prenatally-established "brain sex" (which can be different from one's "corporeal sex", since they are hit by sëx hormones at different times during a pregnancy) is what is also also informing one's gender identity.
@@marmar90000 1. The APA stated plainly that they reclassified in order to reduce stigma. It's still treated like any other mental disorder with clinical intervention. This was a political act by the APA and I've researched this thoroughly. 2. Give me the DOI of one study that claims this. I've reviewed hundreds of studies and none of them have stated "brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with". In fact the most recent study I reviewed on this concluded a "unique brain phenotype". i.e. specific parts of brain anatomy, some yes, some no. And it's all a nothingburger anyway as that's not a diagnostic criteria, and "trans" is an umbrella term and not the same as suffering from GD.
Shout out to the FIRST Jubilee moderator that truly did an amazing job moderating and defending all people answering. Bring this guy on a lot more please
If there’s going to be an “undecided” group, there shouldn’t be any personal biases; the girl whose cousin is trans and is very important to her, I wouldn’t consider her undecided.
My thought exactly, she was never undecided and she was trying to correct the conservative is evidence that she was not there to form an opinion. Don't forget she self identified as Queer in the video, sorry but thats a bias...
I don’t think it should automatically be separated into liberal vs conservative, it’s an unnecessary divide when there are people all over the political spectrum who agree or disagree on this topic.
I was thinking the same thing! They need to stop doing the liberals vs conservative in these debates because it takes away from the topic of discussion. It should be separated between agree vs disagree
Yes! I’m a liberal who doesn’t believe that minors should transition medically! I think if a minor thinks they’re trans they should try to dress up as the other gender, change their pronouns, and see how they feel about changing their gender and then decide as adults if that works out
@@smileyface8057 that is literally what transitioning is for kids though. They are not eligible for a sex change surgeries until they are 16/18. Everyone agrees that kids shouldn't get bottom surgery, and no one is advocating to change that
Majority of the medical community and the top of the top in their fields tend to not be conservative side, considering the conservatives only have misinformation as their information. Conservative side shouldn't have much of a say due to their lack of knowledge
@@emg.9246 that’s absolutely not true, no one starts medically transitioning at 7, there’s no reason to intervene medically at that age. It’s only when puberty begins that medical intervention becomes necessary.
@@zoeybarter3246 perhaps they meant pubity blockers? This is a form of intervention that is intended at the age of pubity starting or before it. Girls can easily begin menstruations at 8/9
Dylan won woman of the year and I don’t know why they would bleep Dylan’s name out. I’m avoiding pronouns because to me it seems like this is Dylan’s latest desperate ploy to get clout. He has a history of humiliating and degrading himself for attention.
@@inspiwo I agree with you fully. Present how you want, express yourself in whatever way makes you happy, go by a different name, fine. That's all healthy experimentation. But medically transitioning crosses the line big time.
@@justsomerandomname2067 As someone who has lived with clinical, diagnosed gender dysphoria for the past 4 years, it is not the medication that CHILDREN need. Absolutely not. DBT, CBT, and many other psychotherapies have been proven to significantly improve and treat GD. It is actually the recommended treatment for juvenile GD, not medicalization.
@@karen5916 i think that we should advocate for a system that will try therapy and antidepressants first. And if that doesnt help, and the childs symptoms fit the GD diagnostic criteria better than any other mental illness, then the child should be given the option of HRT and/or blockers if they have reached puberty (with the advice and supervision of doctors ofc)
BRO WHAT? Kiara seriously did not come on here undecided. She literally just states that she couldn’t go to the conservative side in order to not offend her trans cousin. Do not bring her back.
The bio-Anthropology is what really hit me when she says "assumed gender" smh... At this point the whole trans movement isn't going to stop by any means necessary to facts and concrete evidence at all, which makes a big huge difference at actual evidential proof to biology and any scientific evidential physical proof that can prove them wrong. They just want to try their best to manipulate anything to prove a mental crisis of dysphoria which has nothing to do with reality whatsoever
the girl with the glasses was never undecided she knew which side she was gonna go on each time 😭 next time make sure everyone is open minded and doesn’t just agree with one side
Typical conservative comment. "OMG 1 person choose liberal over conservative, even though she went undecided once and conservative once, and 2 went conservative!!!11!!! How in the world can't everyone be conservative1!!!11"
@@sknight8621well it’s kind of fallacious of you to assume u know what she based her decisions on when u aren’t inside her mind. whether u agree or not, she admit she has someone close to her who is trans and that is definitely going to sway her opinions.
Yes, except I would prefer if they did not choose blue / red (liberal / conservative), even if it's much more likely to have their politics align with the side on the topic, we may have some for whom it does not apply : )
This kind of concept can only work with few things as liberals and conservatives already have a well known and picked color but there’s not colors for things like flat earthers vs scientists etc
Sara and Arthur are both conservatives, but are still clearly different on exactly what their opinions of trans people are. A debate between the two would be killer
Antidepressants will never work unless you do. I was on them for years. Nothing changed. Ever. Until I changed what I was doing in my life and finding what made me happy outside of abusing drugs. Getting my ADHD/OCD addressed. Going to therapy, work, and doing the things that made me happy. Is how I got happy.
@@artandme_ Research doesn't lie, especially the antidepresant research. Many showing less than 50% efficasy. Which in the pharma industry is considered to be a failure. Yet they cost fractions of pennies to manufacture and when people try to quit they have horrible side effects. Not trying to snare anyone off of them, but I was on them and it helped nothing. Im happier then ever off of them. I had to make real life changes. Hoping some clinically ineffective pill to change my socioeconomic circumstances is absolutely ridiculous.
@@sd7785 They didnt work for me... you have to work for yourself. They didn't do anything for me. But I wasn't waiting around doing nothing but hoping these placebos will change your life. Only you can.
Bringing Sara for this Middle Ground is such a smart decision. She was the most grounded in the previous Trans Conservative vs Trans Liberals discussion.
I’m someone who socially transitioned at 15, medically at 18. The issue is so complex, and unfortunately we don’t have the data to fully support either side. That being said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a social transition. But ultimately, this should be looked at on a case by case basis. Every individual is different and varies in the severity of their dysphoria and how they cope with it.
I don’t feel like there is anything wrong with socially transitioning, that is easily reversible, has no long-lasting damages, while also giving a trial run basically. What I do have an issue with is surgeries, which have been addressed, but also puberty blockers. Both are harmful long term, and I don’t care how many people use no evidence and say that puberty blockers cause no long term damage, because stopping our bodies largest period of change does not go without consequences.
puberty blockers take several years to cause any noticeable harm, which said harm goes away shortly after stopping the blockers. Puberty blockers ARE NOT something you take for decades, which is common sense. You take them to stop puberty then when you and your medical provider are ready you take the respective hormone and force the opposite puberty that way. As for surgeries it's genuinely such a small portion of the population that are even eligible for bottom surgery before they're 18. It's to the point where it'd be more relevant to talk about stopping children from getting struck by lightning each year. You're talking about tens of people
That's the biggest problem with the trans issue. One side of the issue believes that gender is separate from biological sex, and the other believes that they both coexist. You can't really come to a middleground when the two sides are operating on a completely different foundation.
It's not really talking about sex vs. Gender, most of this is about minors transitioning. Most people agree that adults have free reign to do what they want with their body as long as they aren't hurting someone else
shoutout to Sara for sitting on the conservative side and speaking to the reality of the situation at hand while still remaining kind, empathetic, and compassionate.
I think it was more so about picking and choosing what children are “responsible” enough to do because how can they become legally emancipated, or employed, or behind a vehicle but they can’t make a fundamental decision about who they are internally. We may not know what we want to be when we grow up but we know who we are instinctively and I think that’s just wrong to put certain restrictions on kids in the name of discrimination
Kiara clearly wasn't undecided. She had a side and came on the show to support it till the end. That being said, I don't think because one changed sides midway meant their entire view had changed midway, but rather that on that particular issue they leaned more towards one to the other
@@cinder7258They were supposed to be undecided on the topic and asked who they agreed with after the conversation. She clearly had a liberal bias. She even mentioned that she agreed with the liberal side because she has a trans friend.
that was my worry going in for this concept ... that most people would already come in with their own biases from experiences and whatever media they consume. it'll be very difficult to find someone who is truly unbiased and undecided...
No sh1t. You're dealing with real people, not mindless drones. You're upset because you haven't found someone who will magically fall for the debate bullsh1t. Go cry
Saying gender dysphoria is a mental disorder should not be considered bad, as it is not a judgment, it is merely stating a fact. It's the same as saying people with OCD or depression or anxiety have a mental disorder, there's nothing wrong with having these illnesses. Anyone who suffer from these mental illnesses deserve treatment and care and understanding.
i agree with u but like the 2 conservative guys just kept trying to act like trans people don’t exist in front of all these trans people and kept acting like as if they went through gender dysphoria and knew exactly what can cure it. their idea of a “mental disorder” is just them saying that a couple therapy sessions can heal it and all of trans ppl transitioned as a “trend” . i think that’s why the other side disagreed. but i mean sara was the only respectful one from the conservatives and idk why would they bring those totally transphobic guys into a discussion like that.
@@ali_1307he’s is not transphobic - he knows transpeople physically exist. He doesn’t agree with your new definitions of things. Transpeople are humans, they exist. They believe to be in the wrong body. they exist. He disagrees with the treatment and the assumptions made based on those facts.
He is not afraid ( phobic ) of transpeople. He doesn’t hate them, he thinks they are mistaken about the treatment options and their beliefs. The sentence “ he doesn’t believe they exist” is so weird
@@janakugel3456 idk if u exactly know what transphobia means , it’s not ‘afraid’ , it’s the hate and the unacceptance of transgenderism. and by the sentence “he thinks trans ppl don’t exist” i mean that he thinks that gender dysphoria and trans ppls’ journey is a delusion and that nothing like that rlly exists naturally, it’s just a trend. that’s what i mean.
@@ali_1307eh you can heavily depate what "transphobic" is. Does only hating on trans people mean you're transphobic? Or is having a different opinion about the gender social concept as a whole, while leaving trans people alone transphobic as well? I personally find it problematic if people consider the second option transphobic as well, as it hinders any development in those specific fields. Remember only because people criticized the idea of the existence of 2 genders did we get to today. That's why I think constructive criticism to anything is not wrong.
@@Maksie0without puberty, not only would you not physically mature, but your brain and emotions would not fully develop either. It’s a natural development that everyone needs to go through, especially before making these big decisions.
@@brookec8837 Hormone blockers haven't been demonstrated to slow brain development during the several decades now that they've been prescribed. Just because something's "natural" doesn't mean it's automatically beneficial. If the goal is to prevent changes that could cause irreversible damage, it seems prudent for a transgender teen to delay puberty so they can make an informed decision when they're older without their body going through any permanent hormone-induced changes just yet.
@@Maksie0 there is hardly any research on how hormone blockers can affect brain development, whether it harms the development or not. Therefore, I don’t know why we would allow children to start puberty blockers when we don’t know what might occur in the long run. Like someone mentioned in the video, we’re allowing children to be guinea pigs at an age they cannot consent at.
Sara was definitely the best debater. She didn't get emotional or judgmental, she didn't bring religion into it, and even though she had plenty of personal experience, she relied on studies and data to support her points. She also didn't make any snide remarks or roll her eyes or make faces, which are annoying and distracting. And from what I've seen of her in previous debates, she seems to be extremely knowledgable and would be the person I trust the most. THANK YOU SARA (and thank you for your service)
The moderator did wonderful in this video. Not interrupting and forcing the members to stop the topic due to not reaching a middle ground. Please keep this guy around, his channel just received a new subscriber!
@@GEN you the goat 🐐 I pray for your further success and blessings. You work hard at what you do and it can't be easy processing both sides as well as you do. I hope one day I see you doing journalism in my later years telling my kids that you've been legit since day one.
Arthur is such a hypocrite. He claims his views come from an ethical standpoint.. but then demonstrates that actually he has a complete lack of empathy. After Tammy tells her story about both her children, he totally ignores it and starts digging into the semantics, he doesn't even look at her. Watch how he corrects Kiara twice - he's getting a little kick out of making her amend her language. Is this not the exact behaviour he claims to condemn?
at least for every argument that he makes, he states it with a fact or a real-life story unlike the liberal side which just full of opinions but barely any facts or examples stated
Showing empathy =/= to being ethical, and vise versa. You can empathize with the worst kinda of person, and you can emphathize with one person and not another.
Same here. I am not really sure how Kiara is undecided and was selected as part of the undecided group. Throughout watching I felt like she already had her view formed and wanted to argue with the Conservative side rather than take in new arguments. Personally, the undecided group should be individuals who are politically neutral or central. It makes more sense that way.
Exactly! I was going to say! After the embarrassing mess that was Blossom/NB chaos where the trans conservatives wiped the floor with the liberals by using logic, seems like an interesting time to insert a new formula that can soften the logic.
@@denzellmoviesit’s not genetic If you have a genetic predisposition that makes you have “gender dysphoria” Wouldn’t this be a genetic disease since the comorbidity is so high ?
@@lanam6459 where did you land on the topics then? because if you play the pronoun game then we can likely predict where you stand with a high probability of success.
she literally went to the conservative once and decided as well...did you watch the video or just the first 5 minutes? you wont talk about the other girl who went to the conservative side all but once...don't be a hypocrite
@@snailcheeseyoutube Yeah, I just watched five minutes (insert eye roll) . The other girl had logic and reasoning behind her decisions while Kiara used primarily emotions. Kiara even said she knows someone who is trans, which clearly demonstrated her bias. She couldn’t even repeat talking points correctly. Stop being ignorant.
Why is it wrong to go off emotion though? It's a fact that human emotions influence decisions. Also you're never gonna get a purely neutral person on one of these panels no matter what.
@@Cutie..Patootie If all decision went based off emotion* the world would have ended, logic is needed. This is why you can request the court to change your judge if they are just being emotional or impartial towards you. Edit put logic instead of emotion.
It's funny how you call out other people's bias then clearly expose yours, again I looked at this video and analyzed both sides. The liberal side definitely could've cited accurate facts and it costed them the argument not to do so, as much as it may suck to realize this transitioning does work (minors can't physically transition in the U.S) look up facts..they just postpone puberty they can choose to transition once they're 18
@@lilmissmonsterrrI agree with you there, we truly needed an actual 3 person group that is undecided. Hopefully next time, there will really be a full unbiased side.
the problem with this whole discussion is that there is no certainty that they arent just lying or basing their opinion on false information they just accepted because of their bias.
Arthur is so disrespectful, showing your annoyance is so immature. However the most annoying thing is that he treats any opinion as false thing is that he is passionate and does care about others as far as I can see in the video
Ita annoying asf when ppl try to pass off feelings as facts. Yes an opinion can be false. Facts are never false. And it’s a biological fact that even with medical transition it doesn’t change the s3x you were born as at birth🤷🏼♀️
@@emg.9246 yes, thank you for pointing that out. now that we've covered something that everyone knows.... how do we ACTUALLY deal with the issue of gender dysphoria in an effective way? maybe with a method that has been shown to work through statistics and fact, such as letting people transition, since i have a feeling that just yelling "you can never change your biological sex at birth!" into their ears won't help all too much
@@emg.9246no trans person is denying their sex at birth. if anything theyre hyper aware of it. but with years of transition it'd be ridiculous to call them by their birth sex
@@mirmir0003agreed. Conservatives talk as if they decide which pronounce to use based on individuals’ bone structure and chromosomes. Let’s show them pics of trans people (especially those who “pass” as cis.)
@@_CetarialIt depends on the person tbh, there are extremes on both sides and even then there are people cable of not getting too emotional about the issues.
Unfortunately the problem with this is that the undecided group wasn't really undecided. It's not your fault though. Finding people that haven't thought at all about these widespread societal battleground issues would be really difficult.
Yeah I feel like they chose very passionate individuals for the undecided group, which is fine considering it's probably hard to get applicants or volunteers that aren't already well versed, but I feel like I expected them to just be average Joes, and I feel like that would make for a better environment. If we got average people to decide, they wouldn't have as many biases like the girl that had a trans friend.
@@itsLantikthey could do a social media check on future undecided participants, if they look truly unrelated to the topic and has no takes they would be better.
Agreed. I really liked the discussion this episode but the undecided group wasn't needed nor added much in my opinion. They just need to do middle ground with ACTUAL moderation like Gen did here.
It's not very difficult to use a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel in a debate about trans/gender politics. It's really not.
The moderator did a much better job at this then they did at the Trans Liberal Vs Trans Conservatives Debate despite both debates being filmed on the same day.
because that moderator had an obvious anti-conservative bias and it showed even though the conservatives slayed the debate regardless of their attempts at being silenced.
@@barbrothers2 Yeah, that Indian woman is hella racist against whites and conservatives. It is kinda wild to see how racist many western born people of Asian heritage are towards white while ironically exclusively dating them. It really shows how being trans and racist are social contagions and trends of the times.
Yes however they did say that there something like part of the comments section sure they can have their own bias but they're not decided in one side entirely also they are technically undecided cause the decided team influences their opinion
Kiara was never undecided Evelyne was truly undecided Christian was truly undecided Edit: Everyone trying to assume my bias/opinion from just this comment shows that discourse in this country is fu**ed. I made a comment and it was mostly accurate, it was so Jubilee maybe becomes aware to pick truly nuanced people.
Kind of funny that the only people you thought were unbiased were the exact two people who had picked the conservative side in the end. Sounds like you were never undecided yourself.
@@RS-xb9loExcept that they were only conservative on the whole basis of transitioning minors. They never discussed other views which they can identity more liberal with. Also, Kiara was clearly heavily staying on the liberal spectrum of each questions while the other two switched sides every question. I don’t see how you can’t perceive that. Way to show your bias, congratulations.
@@JesusisKing77_7 There's a difference between completely undecided and already having a bit of an idea on their thoughts on the matter. If you're looking for a show which throws in people who don't even understand the situation, then this is not it, and you won't find it, either. I already knew who out of the undecided would be on which side in the end based on the very first discussion, it wasn't that hard to see that they already had an ounce of a viewpoint on this matter. This original comment just shows their own bias, because Kiara did in fact move to the conservative side for one of the discussions, maybe if you paid attention you would've realized that she moved around across the spectrum just like the other two. Every single undecided already had biases, you can't get rid of that when going into any discussion on anything.
@@JesusisKing77_7exactly. And it wasn’t only evident in the switching of sides but their actual positions/points. They provided balanced viewpoints that neither the conservatives nor the liberals had mentioned. That shows they were true free thinkers.
its obvious what the end goal is this... if a kid can consent to a "sex change" then they would be able to consent to just sex... thats the end goal of these lunatics
@@ethandollarhide7943 The difference is that you can one day decide that you no longer want to be Christian. You can do it instantly actually. You can also decide your sexuality whenever you want. But you cannot change your hormones and build back years of physical development whenever you want, that takes a very long time to change if it is even possible. Not mad at you btw, but your argument does not hold up.
Liberal, conservative, center, none- we can all agree the last Jubilee was an embarrassment and an example to how NOT to host a debate. THIS however, excellently done. GEN did a great job as a mediator and both sides had their time, excellent points and above all maturity
@@cinnamondan4984 I think it was the one with Blair White and the other transgender people. Trans conservatives vs Trans liberals. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I think thats what people often get wrong. They arnt saying its wrong, theyre saying its not the best course of action for someone with gender disphoria.
If I remember correctly the swedish studies the guy in glasses cited are the ones usually used by conservatives in a disingenuous manner. The studies did research on trans kids who experienced bullying due to transitioning. The study AIMED to show that social acceptance is a strong variable in the mental health of trans individuals. Though sadly, I don't imagine Jubilee could cover all this in a tiny box on the corner of the screen
@@eluna34 These whole "organizations" are partisan hacks. Their modus operandus is: presidential candidate Xclaims, "I walk my dog most days"; "fact-checking" organization F, that is hostile to X, responds, "X has never walked their dog on a Sunday. Verdict: mostly false".
Arthur doesn't seem interested in a real discussion. He's not talking *to* the other side, but talking *AT* them. I have mixed feelings on this issue, but that would really put me off.
Please bring out more fact-checking Moderators to the mix. You can't just have people spout out complete lies in a debate like this, and not have it adressed... One person was claiming trans people get worse health and mental issues after transitioning, and cited a study made in denmark of the same year. However, that's not what the study was about at all. It simply compared mental health between any transitioning trans person to CIS people. All the study is about and found out, is that trans people still overall face discrimination and higher rates of depression than the average population, but not at all transitioning making your mental health worse...
@@jakedarang Can you give me any study that says so? All studies Literally say that there is an improvement. I believe what you are misinterpretating in some studies, is them saying they still have worse mental health than cis people on average, not worse mental health than pre-transition trans people on average. I have seen this same mistake/misinformation spread around a lot already, so you should maybe fact-check what you have been told again.
Minors should be supervised. They're still quite young to be making such big decisions without being first consulted. They can't be rushing into things knowing that they will potentially regret it later.
Gen was an excellent choice as moderator. So nice to have the conversation remain on topic and in control. A lot more information was shared in this format.
As a queer person, this topic getting real tiring ... minors should only consent when THEY ARE OF AGE. They need to make an informed choice. They can always medically transition after 18.
@@billsherman1565 should a child be allowed to have sex? How about tattoos? Should they be able to smoke or drink? What about the fact the vast majority of “trans” identifying children outgrow it after puberty?
@@Black_Samurai-fish No, depends, also depends. Lots of cultures have kids drink before 21 and they turn out fine. Would need a source for the 2nd claim, I do not believe that that is true. Why did you run away from my question like a coward?
@@Black_Samurai-fish"Oh you think children should be properly fed and housed? Loved? Cared for? What next? Does every kid deserve a pack of cigarettes a day, to have sex, to eat candy every meal???" It's almost like socially transitioning, going through puberty, or following medical concensus followed extensive diagnosis are completely and categorically different from smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol.
@@thefrostychemist a child can not have the sense to make a life long medical decision, social transition is one thing, once it becomes medical it’s too much. People like you who push the idea it’s okay for children to medicalize themselves, are destroying lives. More and more “trans kids” are realizing they made a huge mistake and are now permanently damaged.
The last trans discussion was a hot mess. Jubilee did not fail to disappoint with this new format of middle ground. The moderator was amazing, unbiased, and I like how he challenged both sides to expand on their points and fill the holes in their reasoning.
Everyone has opinions Steven. If you were paying attention, you'd notice there was a title to the video, that's what the undecided group is undecided about. The undecided group is not people with 0 opinions at all that are here to just absorb all information at face value.
I thought the other two were so well cast. They were very thoughtful and genuinely on the fence. I'm not a fan of the emotional argument given that she has to always agree with everything her trans family member says. Think for yourself. Would you say that if you were debating religion and one of your family members was a christian or an atheist and you just used that as your reasoning for everything? It's ridiculous and a waste of a potentially interesting perspective, even if they would have chosen someone more liberal leaning.
The bald guy acts like a child; rolling his eyes, sighing loudly, laughing at the oppositions remarks. Very hard to take someone seriously in a debate if they can't be civil.
Feelings are also important to make important decisions. It's what makes us human. And rationality is not the only path for truth. Stop demonizing emotions because they are a fundamental part of who we are and the human experience, and they guide us in important instances of our lives.
@@gobsmr the moment you state that "learning and being objective" implicates not considering or basing your arguments on feelings, yes, you're demonizing them. You can't understand the trans issue without taking into account feelings. It's a fundamental aspect to experience and consider in order to be "objetive" and actually learn.
@@gobsmr i will never understand this arguement. feelings matter. if feelings didnt matter, then a lot of terrible, horrible things would be ok bc feelings dont matter. (like bullying or catcalling)
@@mrnorthz9373 that is clearly not what I said, genius. Now explain to me why this necessarily HAS to be a natural process. Basically no healthcare measure we have is natural, but now suddenly hormone replacement therapy is bad because it is not natural?
I like how they censored Dylan Mulvaney's name the first couple of times, but then got tired and gave up. To be fair though we all know who they were talking about.
They aren't fully medically transitioning, when it's said that a minor is transitioning it usually means going on hormone blockers or socially transitioning. It doesn't hurt anyone to let a kid explore their thoughts and emotions
This doesn’t happen because people like me who were liberals as children changed to conservatives as an adult Liberalism is easy when you have no worries of your own
Arthur's not wrong. His delivery is too aggressive and people shut down with that but even with DSD there is one of two sexes within those chromosomes. The difference in DSD is that there may be a deletion or addition or a mutation but there is still a defined sex that you can't argue. The problem arises when fact or scientific fact is denied and the fantastical is defaulted to.
Facts can still be interpreted in different ways. Jubilee doesn't want to take one side and say one side is factual and one isn't. Theres often nuance in the middle.For example, if black men are arrested at a higher rate than white men that could be 100% fact, but does that mean it is 100% fact the reason is racism, no. If that were true then you could relate the fact that men are arrested at a higher rate than women, but that would mean the only reason could be that police are also sexist.
Although the "undecided group" was interesting to have, they were not "undecided", but rather already had a certain opinion on the topics. I think it would be better to have people within the "undecided group" that only evaluate what they've heard without regarding their own arguments and opinions.
Yes, if would've been much better if the undecided folks were actually undecided 🤪 The only one who felt truly undecided and neutral was the guy. He seemed like he was in a position of taking in both sides fairly and analyzing them with somewhat unbiased logic.
@stinky9067it's not very difficult to choose a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel on trans/gender politics.
@@lilmissmonsterrr That's true, though there aren't many people capable of veering outside of their own opinions like the OG comment is vouching for, as opinions about serious topics tend to be rooted in a persons value system and typically results in someone either becoming angry due to the perceived devaluation of their sense of self (opinion) or the inability to view a perspective outside of one's own. Very few people analyze their own thoughts with intense consideration, even fewer analyze the thoughts of others. it may be easier to straight up find someone that hasn't built an in depth opinion on this topic.
@@lilmissmonsterrr I actually think about it the opposite way. The only DECIDED person was the girl with the glasses. She was clearly liberal and could not separate herself from her own pov. The other two were awesome at being objective.
@@Satanic_cyanide No. Minors go on cross-sex hormones all the time. The leading professional association for trans health (WPATH) lists no minimum age for medically transitioning in its standards of care.
Medically.. absolutely not. The fact that you can’t even drink until your 21 or get a tattoo till your 18.. why would a major decision such as this be allowed. Maturity is under developed as well. So no. I personally wouldn’t allow my children to do that. Or child. If they wanted to dress more masculine appearing or feminine appearing, that’s perfectly fine. I wholly believe in self expression and I think that’s appropriate until they’re of age to make their own decisions.
@@ShadowIsABabywhat??? as a person in my 20s WITH A CHILD i was 100% not more mature as a child. there is no way i should’ve been able to make a permanent decision about ANYTHING regarding my body as a minor. If someone let me shave my head at 13 i would’ve and 100% regretted it.
@@toasteroven45 He seems to be desperate for attention. People like him shouldn't be brought on for this stuff, it only encourages their disturbing obsessive behavior.
EXACTLY! I hate how our country's medical system has led people to believe that only THEIR drugs and THEIR surgeries will solve the problem. This transgender "treatment" is such a scam and people fail to see it. I just feel bad for everyone still who believes that these doctors actually want them to get better.
Majority of minors have no idea what they want for themselves. They don’t to understand the risks of this life changing decision. This shouldn’t even be a debate.
Many adults are unable to make important choices for their lives, including about sexuality or gender (it took Ricky Martin 35 or 40 years to realize he was bisexual sexually but gay romantically), lol.
Actually most kids understand decisions and have better understanding than most adults, but I also agree with the fact that children shouldn’t be allowed to physically transition, but should be allowed to socially transition. Socially transiting gives them a better idea of whether this is what they really want.
@@ShadowIsABaby Children always think that they understand and know everything, even better than adults. But this is a mistake and many adults have already gone through this and understood.
Thanks for watching ya’ll it was a pleasure hosting the UNDECIDED series. How I like to think of the UNDECIDED group is potentially many of you watching and in the comment section. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Absolutely glad to see you as the host/moderator! Well-deserved Gen 👏
Undecided people are just allowing evil to happen
BRO CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Debate are always better with a moderator in the middle!
I did not expect this collaboration, but I think it worked out well!
Was a pleasure to meet you!
I used to like when Jubilee would provide a 'fact check' when people throw out random statistics/facts. If you could bring that back in the future, it would help your content a lot!
Yess they need to do this! It’d get rid of any “facts” that were thrown out during the debate that us, the viewers, could believe as true and lead to even more misinformation.
To be honest, I'm disappointed that they didn't point out the following two things:
1. That the American Psychiatric Association (which publishes the now-aging DSM-5) no longer considers being transgender to be a mental disorder. They just list 'gender dysphoria' which they define as "clinically significant distress or impairment *related to* gender incongruence" (i.e. not the gender incongruence itself, since they recognize that not all trans people live with dysphoria). Similarly, the World Health Organization (which published the 11th edition of the International Classification of Diseases in 2022) no longer considers 'gender incongruence' to be a mental disorder, point blank.
2. That post-mortem and in-vivo studies have consistently found (and are still finding) that the brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with than the brains of the gender they were assigned at birth. This is true even in trans people who have *yet* to undergo any pharmaceuticals or other medical procedures. The understanding here is that one's prenatally-established "brain sex" (which can be different from one's "corporeal sex", since they are hit by sëx hormones at different times during a pregnancy) is what is also also informing one's gender identity.
@@marmar90000 1. The APA stated plainly that they reclassified in order to reduce stigma. It's still treated like any other mental disorder with clinical intervention. This was a political act by the APA and I've researched this thoroughly.
2. Give me the DOI of one study that claims this. I've reviewed hundreds of studies and none of them have stated "brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with".
In fact the most recent study I reviewed on this concluded a "unique brain phenotype". i.e. specific parts of brain anatomy, some yes, some no. And it's all a nothingburger anyway as that's not a diagnostic criteria, and "trans" is an umbrella term and not the same as suffering from GD.
Nah, I’d rather fact check it myself and not depend on this channel.
Yet the middle liberal doesn't car about facts just feelings 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Shout out to the FIRST Jubilee moderator that truly did an amazing job moderating and defending all people answering. Bring this guy on a lot more please
He has his own CZcams channel and he is always very unbiased. I love his videos for that!
He was excellent and he kept the conversation on track. 👍
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching
@@alrightari8401fr!! I was so surprised this episode I hope they keep doing this
Yes he was the best I’ve seen so far!
If there’s going to be an “undecided” group, there shouldn’t be any personal biases; the girl whose cousin is trans and is very important to her, I wouldn’t consider her undecided.
Exactly
My thought exactly, she was never undecided and she was trying to correct the conservative is evidence that she was not there to form an opinion. Don't forget she self identified as Queer in the video, sorry but thats a bias...
She’s been groomed
It’s impossible to have a group without personal biases unless you wanna have ai be the undecided group lil bro
Sara is trans herself yet still conservative. Trans people (and anyone related to a trans person) can still be liberal or conservative.
I don’t think it should automatically be separated into liberal vs conservative, it’s an unnecessary divide when there are people all over the political spectrum who agree or disagree on this topic.
ikr. I don't even know what exactly the undecided people are choosing sides on in the end
I was thinking the same thing! They need to stop doing the liberals vs conservative in these debates because it takes away from the topic of discussion. It should be separated between agree vs disagree
Agreed! This just adds more fuel to the “political inaccuracy” fire we’ve been seeing lately.
Yes! I’m a liberal who doesn’t believe that minors should transition medically! I think if a minor thinks they’re trans they should try to dress up as the other gender, change their pronouns, and see how they feel about changing their gender and then decide as adults if that works out
@@smileyface8057 that is literally what transitioning is for kids though. They are not eligible for a sex change surgeries until they are 16/18. Everyone agrees that kids shouldn't get bottom surgery, and no one is advocating to change that
Sorry but Kiara was definitely not “undecided” she had a huge liberal bias coming into this 😂
Agree 100%. She should be wearing blue and sitting with the other liberals lol.
Ikr. "I can't agree because someone close to me is trans" is not an argument
@@patricialin9045 Deep down, "I cannot hurt the feelings of my trans friend, so I will remain liberal on this"...
Yeah that was some bull
Exactly
They should call doctors, surgeons, psychatrist for this. We wanna hear their views!
That might affect their jobs tho
Majority of the medical community and the top of the top in their fields tend to not be conservative side, considering the conservatives only have misinformation as their information. Conservative side shouldn't have much of a say due to their lack of knowledge
@@lilducko freedom of speech really doesn’t exist
They cant because the conservative oens if they were honest theyd lose thier jobs ....
Jubilee asking experts? Hahahaa😂😂😂😂!
I love how they bipped Dylan Mulvaney's name, until they suddenly didn't 🤣
Omfg I thought they were speaking on Jazz Jennings. The child that started their medical transition at 7
@@emg.9246 that’s absolutely not true, no one starts medically transitioning at 7, there’s no reason to intervene medically at that age. It’s only when puberty begins that medical intervention becomes necessary.
@@zoeybarter3246 perhaps they meant pubity blockers? This is a form of intervention that is intended at the age of pubity starting or before it. Girls can easily begin menstruations at 8/9
Who is that why would they beep that
Dylan won woman of the year and I don’t know why they would bleep Dylan’s name out. I’m avoiding pronouns because to me it seems like this is Dylan’s latest desperate ploy to get clout. He has a history of humiliating and degrading himself for attention.
That girl with glasses is NOT undecided😭😭😭
Literally
When she said "he" instead of "she" I was dyingggg 😭😭
She is correct not undecided
@@user-tp4bo8iu7p pre: argument
Completely agree, it was and unfair study.
As a detrans teen I honestly don't even know how this is a question anymore at this point. Children cannot consent.
im trans and children should not have medical transitions. only social.
@@inspiwo I agree with you fully. Present how you want, express yourself in whatever way makes you happy, go by a different name, fine. That's all healthy experimentation. But medically transitioning crosses the line big time.
Children cannot consent, but they can still get the medication that they need. Transition is the medication that some children need.
@@justsomerandomname2067 As someone who has lived with clinical, diagnosed gender dysphoria for the past 4 years, it is not the medication that CHILDREN need. Absolutely not. DBT, CBT, and many other psychotherapies have been proven to significantly improve and treat GD. It is actually the recommended treatment for juvenile GD, not medicalization.
@@karen5916 i think that we should advocate for a system that will try therapy and antidepressants first. And if that doesnt help, and the childs symptoms fit the GD diagnostic criteria better than any other mental illness, then the child should be given the option of HRT and/or blockers if they have reached puberty (with the advice and supervision of doctors ofc)
BRO WHAT? Kiara seriously did not come on here undecided. She literally just states that she couldn’t go to the conservative side in order to not offend her trans cousin. Do not bring her back.
Evelyn wasn't undecided either. She went to conservative on all but one occasions.
Her point for the final decision didn't make sense at all, like where are your points? Lol
@@Random-sk6hmI agree
That’s Al I kept hearing… She annoyed the fck outa me.
@@Random-sk6hmYou’re incorrect. She remained undecided and also chose liberal in two separate instances.
"you can talk about statistics and facts all day but i dont care" ......and there we have it folks...feelings over facts
The bio-Anthropology is what really hit me when she says "assumed gender" smh... At this point the whole trans movement isn't going to stop by any means necessary to facts and concrete evidence at all, which makes a big huge difference at actual evidential proof to biology and any scientific evidential physical proof that can prove them wrong. They just want to try their best to manipulate anything to prove a mental crisis of dysphoria which has nothing to do with reality whatsoever
conservatives never listen to stats and facts
Yep that’s Typically how they think
the girl with the glasses was never undecided she knew which side she was gonna go on each time 😭 next time make sure everyone is open minded and doesn’t just agree with one side
exactly
Typical conservative comment.
"OMG 1 person choose liberal over conservative, even though she went undecided once and conservative once, and 2 went conservative!!!11!!! How in the world can't everyone be conservative1!!!11"
@@GohanSSJZ I am not conservative, I use to be 100% liberal now I’m moderate. Please stop speaking when u don’t even know me ✋😂
to be fair, she was just following logic, basic facts, and reality
@@sknight8621well it’s kind of fallacious of you to assume u know what she based her decisions on when u aren’t inside her mind. whether u agree or not, she admit she has someone close to her who is trans and that is definitely going to sway her opinions.
wait props for them actually being told to wear colors for once, this makes it so much easier LOL
Yes, except I would prefer if they did not choose blue / red (liberal / conservative), even if it's much more likely to have their politics align with the side on the topic, we may have some for whom it does not apply : )
This kind of concept can only work with few things as liberals and conservatives already have a well known and picked color but there’s not colors for things like flat earthers vs scientists etc
They can define what the colors indicate at the start of the video@@beyondthisnormalrealm
@@antonyshadowbanned agreed, maybe to fit the format have it be like black on one side then white on the other side then it be gray in the middle.
@@antonyshadowbannedI agree
Sara and Arthur are both conservatives, but are still clearly different on exactly what their opinions of trans people are. A debate between the two would be killer
I would agree to that.
nah. there is nothing positive to gain from listening to dirt like Arthur. the only thing that leads to is brain rott.
Arthur does not represent true conservatives like me and Sara
@@alyssamckenzie7714 how do you define a true conservative?
@@jurgnobs1308pee pee caca
How TF is this even a question to be asked?! People have lost their minds.
thanks!
chill lmao. wait till you find out minors have been having non gender related plastic surgery for YEARS now 🤯🤯🤯
@@juju-kn6rx so that means that its okay? what kind of logic is this
@@juju-kn6rx wtf? Plastic surgery for minors, what is that South Korea or US?
Yes, they have. The world is facing a mental health crisis
Antidepressants will never work unless you do. I was on them for years. Nothing changed. Ever. Until I changed what I was doing in my life and finding what made me happy outside of abusing drugs. Getting my ADHD/OCD addressed. Going to therapy, work, and doing the things that made me happy. Is how I got happy.
But what workes for you doesn't work for everyone. Some people do experience benefits from anti-depressants
@@artandme_ Research doesn't lie, especially the antidepresant research. Many showing less than 50% efficasy. Which in the pharma industry is considered to be a failure. Yet they cost fractions of pennies to manufacture and when people try to quit they have horrible side effects. Not trying to snare anyone off of them, but I was on them and it helped nothing. Im happier then ever off of them. I had to make real life changes. Hoping some clinically ineffective pill to change my socioeconomic circumstances is absolutely ridiculous.
the point of antidepressants is by defintion to reduce depression on their own. if they aren't doing that then you should stop taking them
They work for some people but not for others
@@sd7785 They didnt work for me... you have to work for yourself. They didn't do anything for me. But I wasn't waiting around doing nothing but hoping these placebos will change your life. Only you can.
Bringing Sara for this Middle Ground is such a smart decision. She was the most grounded in the previous Trans Conservative vs Trans Liberals discussion.
Nobody is questioning the huge wave of dudes like "Sara" who are ex military who have decided to suddenly transition.
What are you questioning?
I agree. She came with facts. Not feelings.
Sara is awesome.
I liked her too
This is probably the BEST jubilee moderator I’ve ever seen! He needs to do them all
This format is cool
That’s because he’s not from Jubilee. He has a yt channel called GEN
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching
Agreed, I wish they didn't chop it up SO heavily though, and that both sides were more educated on the opposing side's opinions.
@@GENyou a G
@@kindauncool it's only 50 minutes and so many questions to go through tho
I’m someone who socially transitioned at 15, medically at 18. The issue is so complex, and unfortunately we don’t have the data to fully support either side. That being said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a social transition. But ultimately, this should be looked at on a case by case basis. Every individual is different and varies in the severity of their dysphoria and how they cope with it.
I don’t feel like there is anything wrong with socially transitioning, that is easily reversible, has no long-lasting damages, while also giving a trial run basically. What I do have an issue with is surgeries, which have been addressed, but also puberty blockers. Both are harmful long term, and I don’t care how many people use no evidence and say that puberty blockers cause no long term damage, because stopping our bodies largest period of change does not go without consequences.
puberty blockers take several years to cause any noticeable harm, which said harm goes away shortly after stopping the blockers. Puberty blockers ARE NOT something you take for decades, which is common sense. You take them to stop puberty then when you and your medical provider are ready you take the respective hormone and force the opposite puberty that way.
As for surgeries it's genuinely such a small portion of the population that are even eligible for bottom surgery before they're 18. It's to the point where it'd be more relevant to talk about stopping children from getting struck by lightning each year. You're talking about tens of people
Although I think the undecided group wasn’t 100% undecided, putting this group and a moderator in the vids made these a lot better to watch
If one side believes in difference between sex and gender and the other side doesn't, I feel like there's hardly a possibility for middle ground
There isn't. It's one of the either
That's the biggest problem with the trans issue. One side of the issue believes that gender is separate from biological sex, and the other believes that they both coexist.
You can't really come to a middleground when the two sides are operating on a completely different foundation.
It's not really talking about sex vs. Gender, most of this is about minors transitioning. Most people agree that adults have free reign to do what they want with their body as long as they aren't hurting someone else
It's not the subject of the discussion, but it's an unavoidable part of the conversation @@bn09185
Ya… we need to clearly define terminology before we can even have this discussion
shoutout to Sara for sitting on the conservative side and speaking to the reality of the situation at hand while still remaining kind, empathetic, and compassionate.
Agreed
fr at least she wasnt BLATANTLY BEING RUDE like arthur
yeah but how are you transgender and standing with people who are downplaying and talking crap about your whole identity lmao weird.@@inspiwo
i think she detransitioned@@MsRuntz
@@MsRuntz nobody does that get out of your echo chamber
"We trust children to prepare our food for us at fast food restaurants" so why don't we let them transition?
Gosh I'm lost.
That makes 2 of us! I nearly fell out of my chair with some of the responses that they gave me.
Because they'll still get your order wrong lmao
I think it was more so about picking and choosing what children are “responsible” enough to do because how can they become legally emancipated, or employed, or behind a vehicle but they can’t make a fundamental decision about who they are internally. We may not know what we want to be when we grow up but we know who we are instinctively and I think that’s just wrong to put certain restrictions on kids in the name of discrimination
States with no sex ed in school statistically have the highest rates of teen pregnancy
What does that have to do with this
Kiara clearly wasn't undecided. She had a side and came on the show to support it till the end. That being said, I don't think because one changed sides midway meant their entire view had changed midway, but rather that on that particular issue they leaned more towards one to the other
fr
I think Kiara was fine
@@cinder7258They were supposed to be undecided on the topic and asked who they agreed with after the conversation. She clearly had a liberal bias. She even mentioned that she agreed with the liberal side because she has a trans friend.
that was my worry going in for this concept ... that most people would already come in with their own biases from experiences and whatever media they consume. it'll be very difficult to find someone who is truly unbiased and undecided...
No sh1t. You're dealing with real people, not mindless drones. You're upset because you haven't found someone who will magically fall for the debate bullsh1t. Go cry
Saying gender dysphoria is a mental disorder should not be considered bad, as it is not a judgment, it is merely stating a fact. It's the same as saying people with OCD or depression or anxiety have a mental disorder, there's nothing wrong with having these illnesses. Anyone who suffer from these mental illnesses deserve treatment and care and understanding.
i agree with u but like the 2 conservative guys just kept trying to act like trans people don’t exist in front of all these trans people and kept acting like as if they went through gender dysphoria and knew exactly what can cure it. their idea of a “mental disorder” is just them saying that a couple therapy sessions can heal it and all of trans ppl transitioned as a “trend” . i think that’s why the other side disagreed. but i mean sara was the only respectful one from the conservatives and idk why would they bring those totally transphobic guys into a discussion like that.
@@ali_1307he’s is not transphobic - he knows transpeople physically exist. He doesn’t agree with your new definitions of things. Transpeople are humans, they exist. They believe to be in the wrong body. they exist. He disagrees with the treatment and the assumptions made based on those facts.
He is not afraid ( phobic ) of transpeople. He doesn’t hate them, he thinks they are mistaken about the treatment options and their beliefs.
The sentence “ he doesn’t believe they exist” is so weird
@@janakugel3456 idk if u exactly know what transphobia means , it’s not ‘afraid’ , it’s the hate and the unacceptance of transgenderism. and by the sentence “he thinks trans ppl don’t exist” i mean that he thinks that gender dysphoria and trans ppls’ journey is a delusion and that nothing like that rlly exists naturally, it’s just a trend. that’s what i mean.
@@ali_1307eh you can heavily depate what "transphobic" is. Does only hating on trans people mean you're transphobic? Or is having a different opinion about the gender social concept as a whole, while leaving trans people alone transphobic as well?
I personally find it problematic if people consider the second option transphobic as well, as it hinders any development in those specific fields. Remember only because people criticized the idea of the existence of 2 genders did we get to today. That's why I think constructive criticism to anything is not wrong.
Arthur looks like eustace from courage the cowardly dog
Why is it even a debate?
A minor shouldn't be allowed to make decisions that could cause irreversible damage to their bodies for lifetime
So then they shouldn't go through a natural puberty?
@Maksie0 lol what a low IQ take. Puberty is natural. GAS is not
@@Maksie0without puberty, not only would you not physically mature, but your brain and emotions would not fully develop either. It’s a natural development that everyone needs to go through, especially before making these big decisions.
@@brookec8837 Hormone blockers haven't been demonstrated to slow brain development during the several decades now that they've been prescribed. Just because something's "natural" doesn't mean it's automatically beneficial. If the goal is to prevent changes that could cause irreversible damage, it seems prudent for a transgender teen to delay puberty so they can make an informed decision when they're older without their body going through any permanent hormone-induced changes just yet.
@@Maksie0 there is hardly any research on how hormone blockers can affect brain development, whether it harms the development or not.
Therefore, I don’t know why we would allow children to start puberty blockers when we don’t know what might occur in the long run. Like someone mentioned in the video, we’re allowing children to be guinea pigs at an age they cannot consent at.
Sara was definitely the best debater. She didn't get emotional or judgmental, she didn't bring religion into it, and even though she had plenty of personal experience, she relied on studies and data to support her points. She also didn't make any snide remarks or roll her eyes or make faces, which are annoying and distracting. And from what I've seen of her in previous debates, she seems to be extremely knowledgable and would be the person I trust the most. THANK YOU SARA (and thank you for your service)
Sara rocks, always a class act.
LOSER! tomato tomato tomato !
I think you should bring religion to this
Why do you think religion shouldn’t be brought up in this? I’m geniunely curious as I can’t see that standpoint
yea idk, religion as a big take on this@@LukaDialogue
The moderator did wonderful in this video. Not interrupting and forcing the members to stop the topic due to not reaching a middle ground. Please keep this guy around, his channel just received a new subscriber!
Thank you so much! Apppreciate you watching
@@GEN you the goat 🐐 I pray for your further success and blessings. You work hard at what you do and it can't be easy processing both sides as well as you do. I hope one day I see you doing journalism in my later years telling my kids that you've been legit since day one.
Yes best thus far, I like the format too
@@GEN Incredible job at judicious and well-researched moderation :)
It was funny when it started to get heated and everyone was raising their voice then the host said “okay, let’s go to the panel.” Lol well done host
Arthur is such a hypocrite. He claims his views come from an ethical standpoint.. but then demonstrates that actually he has a complete lack of empathy. After Tammy tells her story about both her children, he totally ignores it and starts digging into the semantics, he doesn't even look at her. Watch how he corrects Kiara twice - he's getting a little kick out of making her amend her language. Is this not the exact behaviour he claims to condemn?
at least for every argument that he makes, he states it with a fact or a real-life story unlike the liberal side which just full of opinions but barely any facts or examples stated
Both him and Sarah jumped to the assumption that the government or Medicaid would be paying for someone's transition
Showing empathy =/= to being ethical, and vise versa. You can empathize with the worst kinda of person, and you can emphathize with one person and not another.
Idk seemed to me that he was more interested in stating hard truths rather than any emotionally charged argument
Kiara was never undecided. She even said that someone close to her is trans wow. They need to verify that these people really are undecided.
I wish we knew more about how the undecided group was chosen
same
same
Same here. I am not really sure how Kiara is undecided and was selected as part of the undecided group. Throughout watching I felt like she already had her view formed and wanted to argue with the Conservative side rather than take in new arguments. Personally, the undecided group should be individuals who are politically neutral or central. It makes more sense that way.
Exactly! I was going to say! After the embarrassing mess that was Blossom/NB chaos where the trans conservatives wiped the floor with the liberals by using logic, seems like an interesting time to insert a new formula that can soften the logic.
@@ysq724yalmost as if... they had... an agenda. *gasp*
Dang, Evelyne is so intelligent and well-spoken! Smarter than most adults I’ve met.
Yeah way more informed and collected regarding her thoughts
Yes but not on every topic
@@Lauwit no one on the planet is on every topic
Two children that wanted to transition..there’s something wrong with that lady’s parenting..
Scientists believe there is a genetic component to developing gender dysphoria. So it's really not that weird to have multiple kids who are trans
@@denzellmoviesit’s not genetic
If you have a genetic predisposition that makes you have “gender dysphoria”
Wouldn’t this be a genetic disease since the comorbidity is so high ?
@@denzellmoviesscientists also believed having overcrowded teeth was 100% genetic
@@mrnorthz9373 so because scientists were mistaken once you dismiss any scientific theory you don't like?
Evelyne is absolutely amazing. I hope she goes far in life.
Arthurs pretty cool too. I love how he just states it how it is, and seems very passionate about what he talks about
@@zeldeure1765 Snowflakes get hurt by him lmao
Kiara is literally the liberal stereotype how is that undecided?
Yeah her mind was already made up. She did switch to the middle on sex ed, but I think that was more performative
I’m pretty liberal but I was undecided. Being liberal doesn’t mean you automatically believe minors should be allowed to transition?
@@lanam6459^
@@lanam6459 where did you land on the topics then? because if you play the pronoun game then we can likely predict where you stand with a high probability of success.
@@ryanrogers8631 99.9% probability
Kiara was not undecided. She clearly had a bias and was annoying to have on the panel. She was going off pure emotion.
she literally went to the conservative once and decided as well...did you watch the video or just the first 5 minutes? you wont talk about the other girl who went to the conservative side all but once...don't be a hypocrite
@@snailcheeseyoutube Yeah, I just watched five minutes (insert eye roll) . The other girl had logic and reasoning behind her decisions while Kiara used primarily emotions. Kiara even said she knows someone who is trans, which clearly demonstrated her bias. She couldn’t even repeat talking points correctly. Stop being ignorant.
Why is it wrong to go off emotion though? It's a fact that human emotions influence decisions. Also you're never gonna get a purely neutral person on one of these panels no matter what.
@@Cutie..Patootie If all decision went based off emotion* the world would have ended, logic is needed. This is why you can request the court to change your judge if they are just being emotional or impartial towards you.
Edit put logic instead of emotion.
It's funny how you call out other people's bias then clearly expose yours, again I looked at this video and analyzed both sides. The liberal side definitely could've cited accurate facts and it costed them the argument not to do so, as much as it may suck to realize this transitioning does work (minors can't physically transition in the U.S) look up facts..they just postpone puberty they can choose to transition once they're 18
If people can’t differentiate between sex and gender, it’s not worth debating.
It’s hard to debate someone who doesn’t understand what a disorder or mental illness is
@@ryanthomas9306 exactly like you.
It's because there is a fundamental disagreement on it. It's not a consensus that they are separate. One side fundamentally disagrees with that.
Since when did sex and gender mean something different? That's absolutely hilarious that we make these things up then live by them like gospel.
It's because that's also opinion based
9:59 why was bro most embarrassed that he deadnamed X as Twitter
lmaoo literally
I like this format with the undecided group. It really helped to have a logical third party who was able to poke holes in the other groups arguments.
And it was great to have an actual moderator that didn't favor a certain bias
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching
It would've been better to have three undecided though. They only had two, because one of them was very much decided.
@@lilmissmonsterrryup it’s clear the liberal girl already had her mind set
@@lilmissmonsterrrI agree with you there, we truly needed an actual 3 person group that is undecided. Hopefully next time, there will really be a full unbiased side.
That one "undecided" lady definitely came in decided. She knew people, had personal stories, etc
Typical of leftists. Deception and dishonesty.
💯
As always.
That is facts, I was like "shes not undecided lol"
the problem with this whole discussion is that there is no certainty that they arent just lying or basing their opinion on false information they just accepted because of their bias.
Arthur is so disrespectful, showing your annoyance is so immature. However the most annoying thing is that he treats any opinion as false
thing is that he is passionate and does care about others as far as I can see in the video
Ita annoying asf when ppl try to pass off feelings as facts. Yes an opinion can be false. Facts are never false. And it’s a biological fact that even with medical transition it doesn’t change the s3x you were born as at birth🤷🏼♀️
@@emg.9246 yes, thank you for pointing that out. now that we've covered something that everyone knows.... how do we ACTUALLY deal with the issue of gender dysphoria in an effective way? maybe with a method that has been shown to work through statistics and fact, such as letting people transition, since i have a feeling that just yelling "you can never change your biological sex at birth!" into their ears won't help all too much
@@emg.9246no trans person is denying their sex at birth. if anything theyre hyper aware of it. but with years of transition it'd be ridiculous to call them by their birth sex
@@mirmir0003agreed. Conservatives talk as if they decide which pronounce to use based on individuals’ bone structure and chromosomes. Let’s show them pics of trans people (especially those who “pass” as cis.)
find me a trans person with XY chromosomes then male pronouns might fit@@TK-pv4lh
you can be conservative or liberal, disagree or agree, but nothing absolves you from being respectful.
So true
Conservatives and liberals would physically attack eachother without a moderator.
They simply cannot be in the same room together.
@@_CetarialIt depends on the person tbh, there are extremes on both sides and even then there are people cable of not getting too emotional about the issues.
Arthur apparently doesn’t know that
Yes but liberals think respect = compelled speech and conservatives think respect = free speech.
Socially yes, medically no
Simple to the point and accurate
Exactly what I think
💯
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
No for both
Evelyne is the hero here! She really thought through each prompt and had some great thoughts to add.
Bro that girl with glasses did not belong in the “undecided” category. It’s ridiculous they allowed her to be there knowing her bias.
Unfortunately the problem with this is that the undecided group wasn't really undecided. It's not your fault though. Finding people that haven't thought at all about these widespread societal battleground issues would be really difficult.
Yeah I feel like they chose very passionate individuals for the undecided group, which is fine considering it's probably hard to get applicants or volunteers that aren't already well versed, but I feel like I expected them to just be average Joes, and I feel like that would make for a better environment. If we got average people to decide, they wouldn't have as many biases like the girl that had a trans friend.
i think they were undecided about whether minors can transition or no.
@@itsLantikthey could do a social media check on future undecided participants, if they look truly unrelated to the topic and has no takes they would be better.
Agreed. I really liked the discussion this episode but the undecided group wasn't needed nor added much in my opinion. They just need to do middle ground with ACTUAL moderation like Gen did here.
It's not very difficult to use a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel in a debate about trans/gender politics. It's really not.
The moderator did a much better job at this then they did at the Trans Liberal Vs Trans Conservatives Debate despite both debates being filmed on the same day.
True but that’s because it’s not the same one and GEN doesn’t work for Jubilee
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching
@@tomatotoes6436Should do this more often, have, more people like Gen as moderators.
because that moderator had an obvious anti-conservative bias and it showed even though the conservatives slayed the debate regardless of their attempts at being silenced.
@@barbrothers2 Yeah, that Indian woman is hella racist against whites and conservatives. It is kinda wild to see how racist many western born people of Asian heritage are towards white while ironically exclusively dating them. It really shows how being trans and racist are social contagions and trends of the times.
Why is no one talking about Christian?! He was so bright and intelligent and genuinely open to the truth on both sides
So she had 2 children who wants to attempt to change their sex? But there isn’t anything else WRONG?
In what world is Kiara "Undecided"? She has strong personal opinions about the subject as she says her friend is Trans. Quit trolling
Damn lmao
I agree, the only undecided one in my mind is the guy in the white
Well I’m assuming she was undecided on whether minors should transition rather than trans existence/treatment
Probably just undecided on whether minors should medically transition. But who knows if they came up with the title after it was filmed?
Yes however they did say that there something like part of the comments section sure they can have their own bias but they're not decided in one side entirely also they are technically undecided cause the decided team influences their opinion
Kiara was never undecided
Evelyne was truly undecided
Christian was truly undecided
Edit: Everyone trying to assume my bias/opinion from just this comment shows that discourse in this country is fu**ed. I made a comment and it was mostly accurate, it was so Jubilee maybe becomes aware to pick truly nuanced people.
Kind of funny that the only people you thought were unbiased were the exact two people who had picked the conservative side in the end. Sounds like you were never undecided yourself.
@@RS-xb9loExcept that they were only conservative on the whole basis of transitioning minors. They never discussed other views which they can identity more liberal with. Also, Kiara was clearly heavily staying on the liberal spectrum of each questions while the other two switched sides every question. I don’t see how you can’t perceive that. Way to show your bias, congratulations.
@@JesusisKing77_7 There's a difference between completely undecided and already having a bit of an idea on their thoughts on the matter. If you're looking for a show which throws in people who don't even understand the situation, then this is not it, and you won't find it, either. I already knew who out of the undecided would be on which side in the end based on the very first discussion, it wasn't that hard to see that they already had an ounce of a viewpoint on this matter.
This original comment just shows their own bias, because Kiara did in fact move to the conservative side for one of the discussions, maybe if you paid attention you would've realized that she moved around across the spectrum just like the other two. Every single undecided already had biases, you can't get rid of that when going into any discussion on anything.
@@RS-xb9lo key word: “heavily.” Please be better at making distinctions instead of stating that I didn’t pay attention.
@@JesusisKing77_7exactly. And it wasn’t only evident in the switching of sides but their actual positions/points. They provided balanced viewpoints that neither the conservatives nor the liberals had mentioned. That shows they were true free thinkers.
Kiara is not undecided she is pretty liberal
The fact that we are even having these conversations on a serious level is extremely disturbing .
its obvious what the end goal is this... if a kid can consent to a "sex change" then they would be able to consent to just sex... thats the end goal of these lunatics
I think every normal person should understand that kids can't make such drastic choices at a young age.
Sich? Wtf is sich? You are sich a clown. There is no sich thing as sich. It's such. Guys we got clown over here.
Does that include being too young to know that they're Heterosexual or Christian?
They can know it but the shouldn't be able to sign for example a contract that they will be and live that way for the rest of their lifes
@@amischneider6395 If y'all actually cared about it that much than you would be out there trying to get ALL surgeries banned for minors.
@@ethandollarhide7943 The difference is that you can one day decide that you no longer want to be Christian. You can do it instantly actually. You can also decide your sexuality whenever you want. But you cannot change your hormones and build back years of physical development whenever you want, that takes a very long time to change if it is even possible. Not mad at you btw, but your argument does not hold up.
Liberal, conservative, center, none- we can all agree the last Jubilee was an embarrassment and an example to how NOT to host a debate.
THIS however, excellently done. GEN did a great job as a mediator and both sides had their time, excellent points and above all maturity
What was the last one about?
@@cinnamondan4984 I think it was the one with Blair White and the other transgender people. Trans conservatives vs Trans liberals. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
@@snakesghost7817yep the trans liberals were literally the worst
@@snakesghost7817 I saw clips. That was crazy. I see you like MGS from you name. Snatcher and Policenaughts are worth a look.
@@cinnamondan4984 Thanks, will check it out
Love how the conservatives have a trans person on their side of the table and they keep saying it’s fundamentally wrong to be trans.
I think thats what people often get wrong. They arnt saying its wrong, theyre saying its not the best course of action for someone with gender disphoria.
That bald guy looks angry at all times
He's sitting next to a pervert I would be too
Yeah absolutely, he is overly emotional
@@Benjamin-om3ihwhy wouldn’t you be emotional about children having their genitals chopped off?
You guys should add a fact checker to each episode that red, green or yellow flags any statements that are claimed to be 'citations'
If I remember correctly the swedish studies the guy in glasses cited are the ones usually used by conservatives in a disingenuous manner. The studies did research on trans kids who experienced bullying due to transitioning. The study AIMED to show that social acceptance is a strong variable in the mental health of trans individuals. Though sadly, I don't imagine Jubilee could cover all this in a tiny box on the corner of the screen
No, it works better without editorialiizing, and the idea that a fact checker is actually neutral is just hilariously wrong.
@@dagnurd and yet there are whole organizations that fact check quite well - no one is completely neutral but people can get pretty damn close.
@@eluna34 These whole "organizations" are partisan hacks. Their modus operandus is: presidential candidate Xclaims, "I walk my dog most days"; "fact-checking" organization F, that is hostile to X, responds, "X has never walked their dog on a Sunday. Verdict: mostly false".
That would raise the question, who would be the arbiter of truth. Who would fact check the fact checker?
Evelyne is wise beyond her years. I'm genuinely impressed by her.
👏🏿👏🏿😎
Arthur doesn't seem interested in a real discussion. He's not talking *to* the other side, but talking *AT* them. I have mixed feelings on this issue, but that would really put me off.
Please bring out more fact-checking Moderators to the mix. You can't just have people spout out complete lies in a debate like this, and not have it adressed...
One person was claiming trans people get worse health and mental issues after transitioning, and cited a study made in denmark of the same year. However, that's not what the study was about at all. It simply compared mental health between any transitioning trans person to CIS people. All the study is about and found out, is that trans people still overall face discrimination and higher rates of depression than the average population, but not at all transitioning making your mental health worse...
Yeah it’s disgusting how he uses these studies in bad faith.
"CIS people" you mean normal people?
@@bananaleaf5899Trans people are not necessarily abnormal, and being cis and being normal are not mutually exclusive.
All of the studies agree transitioning doesn't improve health outcomes, they almost all say the suicidality rate gets worse.
@@jakedarang Can you give me any study that says so?
All studies Literally say that there is an improvement. I believe what you are misinterpretating in some studies, is them saying they still have worse mental health than cis people on average, not worse mental health than pre-transition trans people on average. I have seen this same mistake/misinformation spread around a lot already, so you should maybe fact-check what you have been told again.
Minors should be supervised. They're still quite young to be making such big decisions without being first consulted. They can't be rushing into things knowing that they will potentially regret it later.
🗣️🗣️
PREACH (im trans)
Yes exactly.
🙌🏻
Oh hi barbie
Jubilee should permanently hire Gen for hosting, he did an awesome job.
A permanent decision like that shouldn’t be made by a minor.
Minors aren't eligible for any non-reversible procedures
@@denzellmovies Those puberty blockers and HRT should be off the table too.
@@Razor1473 Who tf ae you to determine what other people choose to do with their own bodies?
@@denzellmovies I’m talking about for minors, which we already do dictate thing minors aren’t allowed to do?
The fact this is even a debate tells you where we are as humans in this country
exactly
I feel like both sides can say this
Gen was an excellent choice as moderator. So nice to have the conversation remain on topic and in control. A lot more information was shared in this format.
Thank you appreciate you watching!!
As a queer person, this topic getting real tiring ... minors should only consent when THEY ARE OF AGE. They need to make an informed choice. They can always medically transition after 18.
They don't want to go thru puberty of their born gender is what it is but they should because alot of them will grow out of it and accept themselves
Yes!
Yes!
I agree
Nah dog if a medical and psychiatric doctor says it’s okay then it’s okay they’re professionals 👍
It's so ironic that the guy who said kids believe in Santa is highly religious.
100% no they shouldn’t. It’s life long consequences and a child can’t decide that.
Do you think children dont make other lifelong decisions? Especially when parents have to give consent as well
@@billsherman1565 should a child be allowed to have sex? How about tattoos? Should they be able to smoke or drink?
What about the fact the vast majority of “trans” identifying children outgrow it after puberty?
@@Black_Samurai-fish No, depends, also depends. Lots of cultures have kids drink before 21 and they turn out fine.
Would need a source for the 2nd claim, I do not believe that that is true.
Why did you run away from my question like a coward?
@@Black_Samurai-fish"Oh you think children should be properly fed and housed? Loved? Cared for? What next? Does every kid deserve a pack of cigarettes a day, to have sex, to eat candy every meal???"
It's almost like socially transitioning, going through puberty, or following medical concensus followed extensive diagnosis are completely and categorically different from smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol.
@@thefrostychemist a child can not have the sense to make a life long medical decision, social transition is one thing, once it becomes medical it’s too much. People like you who push the idea it’s okay for children to medicalize themselves, are destroying lives. More and more “trans kids” are realizing they made a huge mistake and are now permanently damaged.
I like the concept of undecided, but the process of choosing who is undecided needs improvement. Kiara seemed to have a bias.
Yep
We all have biases even if we don’t have a set opinion on certain things, it’s impossible to find a completely unbiased individual.
Yeah. We might need lighter or less talked about topics for it to truly set itself apart from middle ground
@@nevadag606 it's posible to find someone without a trans relative....
Kiara being undecided is hilarious 😂
Just like that other girl pretending she's undecided when she's clearly a conservative
@@Random-sk6hmthe girl-guy?
She’s undecided, but midway through is playing advocate for someone she knows? Like come on, stand for your values.
@@ChillWill12 ???
Sarah seems like a really level head, well educated, well spoken and kind person.
Biology doesn’t care about your feelings
What is this a response to? What exactly do you think the argument of progressives is, because I get the idea you don't actually understand it
The last trans discussion was a hot mess. Jubilee did not fail to disappoint with this new format of middle ground. The moderator was amazing, unbiased, and I like how he challenged both sides to expand on their points and fill the holes in their reasoning.
“did not fail to disappoint” doesn’t make sense with the rest of your comment. Think about it
@@0v3rgr0wn I think they meant to say ''did not disappoint'' lol
Lol "did not fail to disappoint"
erm ackshually@@0v3rgr0wn
Jubilee never fails to disappoint! :D
Kiara was very much not "undecided." Her opinions were solidified long before coming to set. Let's work on our casting questions, Jubilee.
Jubilee doesn’t care. They want the world to think being liberal is the norm
Everyone has opinions Steven. If you were paying attention, you'd notice there was a title to the video, that's what the undecided group is undecided about. The undecided group is not people with 0 opinions at all that are here to just absorb all information at face value.
You’re just mad that she’s liberal leaning. Big cope or stay mad no one cares
She formulated her opinion based on feelings and family member’s experience.
I thought the other two were so well cast. They were very thoughtful and genuinely on the fence. I'm not a fan of the emotional argument given that she has to always agree with everything her trans family member says. Think for yourself. Would you say that if you were debating religion and one of your family members was a christian or an atheist and you just used that as your reasoning for everything? It's ridiculous and a waste of a potentially interesting perspective, even if they would have chosen someone more liberal leaning.
The bald guy acts like a child; rolling his eyes, sighing loudly, laughing at the oppositions remarks.
Very hard to take someone seriously in a debate if they can't be civil.
If his expressions bother you, then dont participate in debates, sounds like your personal issue.
To be fair the other side were idiots
This isn't up for debate. It's between the child, the parent and the doctors. Stop inserting your opinions into other peoples business.
It’s up to the parent …
@@ryanthomas9306 parents shouldn’t be able to stop their gender dysphoric child from accessing help
@@becky14we are saying to get help…. If you’re suicidal or have extreme anxiety, get psychological help
We are against medicalization
If depression is a mental illness and includes self destructive behaviour, how is gender dysphoria not classified as one?
It is a disorder. They just put it in a category of its own and treating it with an 'affirmative' approach, which is not therapy at all.
If gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness, why do they need surgery and medication to treat it?
even body dysmorphia is considered one
being a kpop stan is a mental illness
because it makes more money to let people transition then help them mentally
Hats off to Evelyne who was actually there to learn and be objective, while asking real questions not based on feelings.
Feelings are also important to make important decisions. It's what makes us human. And rationality is not the only path for truth. Stop demonizing emotions because they are a fundamental part of who we are and the human experience, and they guide us in important instances of our lives.
@@ROEnotEORNo one demonized feelings?? Lmao calm down keyboard warrior
@@gobsmr the moment you state that "learning and being objective" implicates not considering or basing your arguments on feelings, yes, you're demonizing them.
You can't understand the trans issue without taking into account feelings. It's a fundamental aspect to experience and consider in order to be "objetive" and actually learn.
@@ROEnotEOR Nah dude. That’s not objectivism then.
@@gobsmr i will never understand this arguement. feelings matter. if feelings didnt matter, then a lot of terrible, horrible things would be ok bc feelings dont matter. (like bullying or catcalling)
Im surprised that hormonally altering minors was even up for debate.
That is literally what puberty is
@@denzellmovieswhat???? Puberty is natural part of human life??? Are you saying mutilating body parts and ingesting artificial hormones is natural??
@@mrnorthz9373 that is clearly not what I said, genius. Now explain to me why this necessarily HAS to be a natural process. Basically no healthcare measure we have is natural, but now suddenly hormone replacement therapy is bad because it is not natural?
@@denzellmovies which is a naturally occurring process. Im not against hormone therapy but i just draw the line with minors.
@@coolgadgetproduction why? How can you be against voluntary hormone therapy while you are perfectly fine with involuntary puberty?
Not him calling homosexuality an illness 💀💀💀💀
Dangerously based
I like how they censored Dylan Mulvaney's name the first couple of times, but then got tired and gave up. To be fair though we all know who they were talking about.
I had no idea who it was until the first error so I’m kind of sad that wasn’t consistent
i was 100% sure they were talking about bruce jenner when they bleeped it :))
Kiara definitely was undecided on the trans issue 😂
Should minor transition is a wild title. What is this clown world coming too
They aren't fully medically transitioning, when it's said that a minor is transitioning it usually means going on hormone blockers or socially transitioning. It doesn't hurt anyone to let a kid explore their thoughts and emotions
cant wait until people like arthur are replaced by newer, more open-minded generations
This doesn’t happen because people like me who were liberals as children changed to conservatives as an adult
Liberalism is easy when you have no worries of your own
@@ryanthomas9306ah yes, as we all know only conservatives have stuff to worry about in their lives. Liberals don't have bills to pay of course
Arthur's not wrong. His delivery is too aggressive and people shut down with that but even with DSD there is one of two sexes within those chromosomes. The difference in DSD is that there may be a deletion or addition or a mutation but there is still a defined sex that you can't argue. The problem arises when fact or scientific fact is denied and the fantastical is defaulted to.
i wish you guys would do a "fact check" with each statement
Yea
It can get a little iffy doing that. Probably best to allow the speakers to provide them with sources which then they list or edit into the video.
Facts can still be interpreted in different ways. Jubilee doesn't want to take one side and say one side is factual and one isn't. Theres often nuance in the middle.For example, if black men are arrested at a higher rate than white men that could be 100% fact, but does that mean it is 100% fact the reason is racism, no. If that were true then you could relate the fact that men are arrested at a higher rate than women, but that would mean the only reason could be that police are also sexist.
the lefts entire argument would be destroyed if that was the case.
It wouldn’t matter who are the fact checkers?
Although the "undecided group" was interesting to have, they were not "undecided", but rather already had a certain opinion on the topics. I think it would be better to have people within the "undecided group" that only evaluate what they've heard without regarding their own arguments and opinions.
They just needed to do a better job at vetting for people who are actually pretty close to neutral in their opinions on the subject.
Yes, if would've been much better if the undecided folks were actually undecided 🤪
The only one who felt truly undecided and neutral was the guy. He seemed like he was in a position of taking in both sides fairly and analyzing them with somewhat unbiased logic.
@stinky9067it's not very difficult to choose a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel on trans/gender politics.
@@lilmissmonsterrr That's true, though there aren't many people capable of veering outside of their own opinions like the OG comment is vouching for, as opinions about serious topics tend to be rooted in a persons value system and typically results in someone either becoming angry due to the perceived devaluation of their sense of self (opinion) or the inability to view a perspective outside of one's own.
Very few people analyze their own thoughts with intense consideration, even fewer analyze the thoughts of others.
it may be easier to straight up find someone that hasn't built an in depth opinion on this topic.
@@lilmissmonsterrr I actually think about it the opposite way. The only DECIDED person was the girl with the glasses. She was clearly liberal and could not separate herself from her own pov. The other two were awesome at being objective.
Arthur is insufferable
Im liberal and don’t think minors should transition. I think many other would identify that way as well
When minors transition it usually means that they are going on hormones blockers or socially transitioning(name change/different pronouns)
@@Satanic_cyanide exactly it is child abuse
@@Satanic_cyanide No. Minors go on cross-sex hormones all the time. The leading professional association for trans health (WPATH) lists no minimum age for medically transitioning in its standards of care.
Medically.. absolutely not.
The fact that you can’t even drink until your 21 or get a tattoo till your 18.. why would a major decision such as this be allowed. Maturity is under developed as well. So no.
I personally wouldn’t allow my children to do that. Or child. If they wanted to dress more masculine appearing or feminine appearing, that’s perfectly fine. I wholly believe in self expression and I think that’s appropriate until they’re of age to make their own decisions.
@@ShadowIsABabysounds like something a pedophile would say too. Just saying. 😬
If society is more accepting of gender non-conforming individuals, the rate of children identified as trans will drop.
@@ShadowIsABaby Source: trust me bro
@@ShadowIsABabywhat??? as a person in my 20s WITH A CHILD i was 100% not more mature as a child. there is no way i should’ve been able to make a permanent decision about ANYTHING regarding my body as a minor. If someone let me shave my head at 13 i would’ve and 100% regretted it.
@@ShadowIsABabyGroomers lead by the same narrative, don't get yourself tangled up in that mess
Evelyn is so bright & outstanding. Very impressed by her especially with the fact that she’s only 17.
She so pretty
I hope collage doesn’t brainwash her
@@BobRoss-vz4it Maybe you need to attend college if you can't even spell it correctly
@@Random-sk6hm we got a grammar national socialist here 😂
@@leanzagilbert6933 I'm not American but I appreciate you trying 😂
The bald guy was pissing me off so much bc he brought up every point with anger like bro pipe down
Thank you!😂
@@ArthurCSchaperMR why u stalkin comments 7 months later u irrelevant bum
@@toasteroven45 He seems to be desperate for attention. People like him shouldn't be brought on for this stuff, it only encourages their disturbing obsessive behavior.
@ilovenana0 Exactly!
Mental health issues rarely go away with a pill, lady. If that is your expectation, you are not trying.
the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria is transitioning. That's a scientific fact no matter how much you don't like it
EXACTLY! I hate how our country's medical system has led people to believe that only THEIR drugs and THEIR surgeries will solve the problem. This transgender "treatment" is such a scam and people fail to see it. I just feel bad for everyone still who believes that these doctors actually want them to get better.
@@denzellmoviesaffirmative cognitive behavioral therapy… doesnt require any hormones
@@Aimeeorangeburg just wondering, you have any actual experience with the treatment or talked to anyone who has?
I’m glad there’s a moderator there now.
Also, shout out to Sara for being the voice of kindness, reasoning, and compassion yet again!
I'm glad Sara is back! He did great in the blair white episode too
@@SicilianAmericanDreams…?
@@dream-standan5488 (The first time I saw Sara in something was the jubilee episode featuring Blair white they recently did)
sara was not reasonable
@@cinder7258 how so
Majority of minors have no idea what they want for themselves. They don’t to understand the risks of this life changing decision. This shouldn’t even be a debate.
Many adults are unable to make important choices for their lives, including about sexuality or gender (it took Ricky Martin 35 or 40 years to realize he was bisexual sexually but gay romantically), lol.
Actually most kids understand decisions and have better understanding than most adults, but I also agree with the fact that children shouldn’t be allowed to physically transition, but should be allowed to socially transition. Socially transiting gives them a better idea of whether this is what they really want.
@@ShadowIsABaby Children always think that they understand and know everything, even better than adults. But this is a mistake and many adults have already gone through this and understood.
@@ShadowIsABabyhuhh “most”? thats sounds far fetch
@ShadowIsABaby no, you sound like a child for claiming that.
I already know minors shouldn’t be transitioning I just wanted to know why a grown adult would think it’s okay
Exactly!
Because it's demonstrably effective at treating gender dysphoria