Legacy Audio Unleashes Audiophile High Powered Class D Amplifiers @ Florida Expo 2020
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2020
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Legacy Audio dropped the gauntlet down with their new 600 wpc iV7 7CH and 8CH Class D amplifiers at the 2020 Florida Expo show. Legacy claims these are the most powerful home theater amplifiers in consumer audio to date. Armed with the latest ICE high power modules and independent power supplies and lots of heat sink area gives us little reason to doubt this claim.
The fact that Legacy uses these amplifiers in their $80k flagship Valor speaker system gives a good indication of amount of performance and power this platform offers. Did we also mention they look great? Watch this interview with Bill Dudleston to learn about all of the cool featured implemented into this powerhouse amplifiers.
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#amplifiers #audiophile #hometheater - Věda a technologie
I have one of Legacy’s PowerBloc amps (works here in Japan, as he mentioned) and plan to buy another. Great sound, loads of headroom and fits nicely in my AV cabinet. Great service from the Legacy crew.
Thanks guys, keep up the good work.
I see some folks may be misunderstanding and misjudging this amplifier. This amplifier is not the same as the Parts Express modules. The modules at parts express are mostly the older designs with inferior performance. This uses the newer ice edge 1200as2 module. It has a superior reactance behavior, lower noise and distortion, and is more comparable to N core modules.
Those modules cost more money and are, for the moment, only available to oems.
Now as for cost, there is likely about $3000-$4000 worth of amplifier modules in that amplifier. Cases are very expensive and so there is probably $200-$500 in case if not more. Given the meter, carbon fiber, and copper details, my guess is that it’s on the higher end of that scale. Some Pass Lab amplifiers have cases that cost over $1000 to manufacturer. Does it sound better, no but some people also buy looks (and on this amp it isn’t a big savings to use a cheaper case). Add in connectors, labor, overhead, UL certification, a warranty, and making Bill enough money to pay his mortgage and you are easily looking at $5000. The rest of that price is likely margin for dealers to work with.
This is 600 watts into 8 ohms by 8 channels with 4 separate power supplies and 90% efficiency. All in all, given the gorgeous looks and American labor, not a bad price.
I was surprised they were actually that cheap. Personally I want a 200-250w @8ohm 5.1 version, although I don’t care for the gold color scheme.
Although Ice power amps have a good track record of competently built designs has this specific module been reviewed by a reputable third party tester? I don't think so, each module can have its own issues and we can't really guess how it measures. My comment doesn't take away from the track record of Ice Power amps reputation we just have to take each module for what it is.
Trdat well we can always ask for samples or a review set of this amplifier and measure it. Gene and I are up to our eyeballs in work right now so I don’t know when.
Usually the Icepower tech sheets jive with third party test data. The data sheet shows a lot better performance for this specific module as compared to others in the series. I too would love to see that verified but suspect it’s accurate.
If it is accurate, it would be below the level of Ncore modules, but also a bit cheaper. It would still be very good performance with negligible reactance adequate noise and distortion performance.
@@PoesAcoustics Agree, probably slightly lower but the difference between top range Hypex and Ice will be negligible and probably even inaudible. And I also can hazard a guess at OEM prices and although at first the amp looks expensive your analysis of the break down on price is accurate with a logical explanation. Where can we see your measurements of amplifiers you and Gene do? Is this something I have missed on the audioholics website? I would like to know the format of measurements.
Trdat Gene has always measured amplifiers using his Audio Precision rig. I recently obtained the new AP software to use with generic audio interfaces. My interface is limited to about -100 to -110 thd-n. What this means is that I can accurately measure amplifiers to a point but not beyond. I can still measure full power output and frequency response. My limitation will be in the noise department where my rig won’t be clean enough. Gene can measure nearly anything on the market.
I only just got setup and I’m still calibrating and assembling everything. You will see my measurements in coming reviews.
Thanks for a great walkthrough again Gene, AS ALWAYS .... Am I sensing a thought that these could possibly be your new reference level amps?
So there’s allot of delicate work inside of an amplifier case that contributes to the signal to noise ratios. There’s hundreds of parts all humming and buzzing and reacting in different ways together. Buying high quality parts can make a real impact in what ultimately travels down the chain to be amplified by the ICE module. Small subtle influences become magnified, and on really sensitive speakers you can hear these differences more clearly than on most budget speakers. So a good portion of the cost is in these no compromise parts in the pursuit of getting that chain as close to flawless as money and current technology can buy. Maybe it’s not worth it, but that’s what’s great about having other companies, if you want the ice module with cheaper parts or some other balance of compromises you can buy those instead. This dude didn’t skimp on the heatsinks, or the sustained power output for organ music and doom metal. That means allot to me, and inspires confidence that it’s not just a fancy case full of junk, but quality inside and out. If the amp is $8,000. Then how much is this buyer spending on speakers? What’s the overall system budget? Maybe $20,000... $30,000.... there aren’t very many people who have that budget. So they might only sell a few hundred units, the less you sell of something the higher you need to price it to cover all the costs and pack in a profit. So as we wonder where the price is coming from, part of it may be necessity to make the endeavor profitable. And finally we also need to consider the competition in their price class. People with $30,000 to spend on audio are throwing down serious cash for a serious system. Sometimes their only measure of quality is the price. They’ll buy the more expensive unit, because they feel price indicates quality. So sometimes you need to price higher just to keep up your sales. It’s a weird pricing game for sure. You can’t come off looking cheap. But also if you provide enough value for price, you’ll sell more units. But if you sell more units, that’s more logistics lol and that cuts into listening time. Allot of these companies are just keeping it chill, making the best thing they can, not worrying about taking over the world. Just making some cool stuff, and hopefully finding enough rich people that appreciate that stuff for them to stay in business and live comfortably. That’s what’s cool about this amplifier, it’s real quality, and real chill, just look at that faceplate and those vents, and listen to this dude. This thing is Solid Audio Nirvana man. Can’t wait to see the inside.
Hi Gene,
Do you know about when you may be reviewing this amp? I am strongly considering this or an ATI 6000 class AB. Thanks
Thanks
I have quite some class D amps, including Ncore. I was very surprised by the Behringer A800 amp, on sale in Europe for 169 euro. Greatest bargain I ever saw, and sounds terrific.
That amplifier more likely is going to be in my theater room for sure beautiful amplifier 😁
Pre-Amp sections of receivers, are they pretty much created equal as far as sound quality? I have a Rotel 5 channel Amp, however I can not afford a dedicated multichannel preamp. I was considering buying a receiver and using it as JUST a preamp.
I always been impressed with Legacy. There is always lot of great science based engineering going into their products, without waving the audio magic chicken. Nor are they an company content to rest on their laurels. Mr. Dudleston always seems to be exploring new ways to make an already great sounding product even better. Outstanding interview.
Gene, when do you think you are going to be able to test this amplifier? It would be nice to compare it to the NAD M23
Class D and switched power supplies give excellent results. I used those to build a multichannel AMP a few years ago. It is the most economical way to have great sound.
I have always thought that Legacy was under-rated with regards to other overly-hyped speakers, etc.; however, these are truly out of my league financially, but there are very good alternative Class-D amplifiers that sound absolutely good; in fact, I have converted my classic speakers to new drivers and into an active crossover system with four Class-D amplifiers with 300 watts into 8 ohms -- and if I do say so myself -- with my other upgrades and additions, they sound absolutely phenomenal to me. This is, of course, where it really matters -- what you listen to in your home and what pleases your ears.
It would be nice if everyone who desired audiophile-grade dream speakers could buy them . . . but this is simply not feasible for many people, whose budget is so divided with other important priorities; therefore, it is still finding the best at the price you can afford. For those who can afford such equipment, more power to you -- be thankful for your situation and good fortune . . . but the rest of us enjoy good sound also, and we do not in this day, have to accent bad trade-offs and can afford amplifiers that may not look so good with copper grills, etc., which is quite lovely, but would rather put their funds into the best sound with the money going totally towards the electronics rather than cosmetics.
Long time ago a magazine had a section OBJECTS OF DESIRE . That has stuck me for years.
Legacy products are objects of desire. Works of art
Class D is finally being improved upon to match class A/B in sound quality. As an engineer all I can say it's about time ! This could have easily have been done 15 years ago , but a lot of audiophiles simply do not understand electronics. If the amp has a sampling rate as high as a well made music CD, then the human ear can't hear it . These amps can easily operate at twice the sampling rate of the recording. I understand that a lot of audio enthusiasts will disagree. Please research this for yourselves. Robust switch mode power supplies and class D amplifiers have come of age . If you can't see it on a high resolution oscilloscope , you certainly cannot hear it . Good job Legacy .
Looks like a nice amp. Any distributers in Europe?
I've been saying for years you can excellent sound quality out of a regulated class D amp. JL Audio has been doing it for years. I've got 2 JL HD amps. Regulated, guaranteed clean RMS power regardless of impedance or battery voltage.
Yours is my favorite hi-fi channel. The most useful. You are concerned with measurements.
On this note, what are your thoughts are on the new Peachtree Nova500 since it too is an ICE based product?
... that you can buy a 1200AS2 amp for far less than $ 3,5K...
How does this compare to a behringer nu6000?
Have you tried the new d-sonic?
I'm looking forward to high-end Class D flooding the audiophile market. The technology has matured, sounds great, and is extremely efficient.
Clean, neutral, power.
@@johnbravo7542 In theory you're right. However, I'm sure if I ab'd a high end class D or class AB with gobs of current capability for them next to a pure class A, 20 watt tube amp on moderately efficient speakers they'd prefer the Class D/AB with switching power supply.
Hey, I should actually do that.
Great video, I am very much interested in owning this amps for my audio room and my media room. Are they still working on the bases of 20Amp breaker per 1000 Watts driven? Yes I am aware that I probably never use 1000 Watts! I am doing now 5 wall plugs all individual from each other at 20 X 5 ( Breakers can be updated) Independent ground and Power cables for each plug, can you make a comment about that> I am trying to avoid any future ground loops as I do have various turntables. I use Furman and Panamax Conditioners.
I'm tormented at the moment. This or the ATI Signature 6007. I can't decide!
IS $2,000 VERSION AVAILABLE :) Beautiful Amp.
Was this video found in a time capsule from the 80’s?
8k is pricey for most but very reasonable really with the ice power parts a big chunk of that cost! This thing will be more than enough for even the best home theaters. They as mentioned use it on there flagship ultra high end speakers! Considering most people put amplifiers on the main 3 channels and another multi for everything else. Using just this st the 7ch or 8ch ain't really all that much more, just my 2 cents!
Is this suitable for driving 5.1 channels in hoke theatre
I wonder if this amp outperforms my 575 watts into 8 ohms Mono Block Amps. I wish I could do a A/B blind test.
I wonder how they can drive a pair of Harbeth 40.2's then maybe a Wilson Alexx pair. That will stress test the amps!
Wow I love this legacy stuff the speakers amps just everything looks beautiful and just listening to you describe the performance makes me want it in my theater so bad this could be my future system 😍
nice looking amp
Wow. Beautiful and amazing amp. I’m liking the future.
I‘m falling in love!!! Where can i buy such a thing in germany? Thanks Gene!
You can buy multichannel ICEpower custom amps from Apollon Audio, Rouge Audio or Nord...
@@ebarbie5016 Not everybody feels confortable with DIY...
Will Av receivers come with no amps at some point? seems like wasted cost, especially the fronts
Yes those are called AV Processors available RN.
Bill Dudleston - Great Engineer! 👍 Best Engineer in World! 👍
I completely agree with Gene about class D being the future. They are already as good as the best AB amplifiers and as the cost of GaN devices drop and they become more available, for use in class D amps, it will push the switching frequencies higher and the dead band into the nanoseconds realm.
Fine. I want to send you a car audio amp to test with your setup. I have this sneaky suspicion that we in the car audio world have been sitting on a gold mine.
car audio any piece of shit class D will do FFS it's in a friggan car
If I'm spending $8K on an amp, I'm getting the real thing.
Cool, then the Legacy amp is for you.
How does this compare to the sunfire counterpart?
Much better than the old Class G Sunfire amplifiers.
@@Audioholics I was under the impression the older one like my cinema grand signature was a class D as well?
@@Theguypostingthis no they used a track down converter similar to Class G. Their 400wpcx7 was greatly exaggerated.
@@Audioholics ok cool thanks. I'll continue to use it for my theater setup. However I have a pair of focal mini utopias and trying to decide what to power them with.
Gene can do a pro interview
Been using it in my home theater. xls2502!!!!!
Does it have that class D type of Sound cold do you know what it sounds like run off batterie?
Dang it I missed it again!!! Last year was a baby show and now another baby shower this year wife dragged me too.
Common everybody,enough of bashing the price of this amp,this amp is pennies compared Dan D'Agostino's Relentless Mono blocks at a mere U.S. $250K each mono block,common now Hahaha ;-)
is denon x2600h is worth buying in medium room advice me sir (12*16) room size & speakers which i buy is elac b 6.2 pair Note : all these setup going to living room plz advice sir
radha krishna Vasireddy You can probably get several answers if you ask it in a chat forum. It’s hard to get attention when your question isn’t on topic. My answer is that most any Denon is going to be of suitable quality for your speakers and size of room. Be mindful of the impedance of the speakers, and the ability of the amp to handle those impedance. 8ohm is usually no problem for any amplifier, but 4 ohm speakers and you need to shop carefully.
I'm not seeing THD ratings on their website, what's up with that? www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/iv7/ I had to download the manual, which says/// "Featuring state of the art ICEedge® technology, the powerhouse delivers up to 1kW into 4 ohms at less than 0.005% distortion to each of its channels." /// Is doing that into 4 ohms more impressive than doing it into 8 ohms? What kind of specmanship is going on here? Is this presentation of info in compliance with FTC guidelines? Obviously .005% is way better than .05% often seen in A-B class receivers of the last decade, but how am I to interpret 1kW into 4ohms, is that the standard FTC format?
Dear Santa...
Yeah for Legacy prices you can get the same technology from someone like Buckeye for a fraction of the price.
Why is the price so high? I would never pay 8k unless the warranty was top notch for the price. Sorry 3yr warranty for digital processors, and internal amplifies is a rip off, unless this thing is built like a "Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus Tank". All in All it looks really nice.
I posted elsewhere. If you look at even the oem cost on the Ice Power Ice edge 1200as2 modules you will see that 8 of them, 4 with power supplies, makes up at least half the cost. Add in the case, meter, connectors, warranty, overhead, and profit margins and it’s easy to get to that price. In fact the margins look to be half what the big companies charge. I know what the margins are in a lot of big brands and I also know that I couldn’t build this amplifier with those margins for his price.
Class D modules of this level still cost a good bit (as would Class AB). It’s 600 watts times 8 channels with 4 power supplies. Even a Crown pro amp of that level will cost that much.
@@PoesAcoustics That was very insightful thank you for the knowledge on the topic. 💪😀
The price point is aimed at an income of 80,000-100,000 dollars a year minimum. There is no way someone that makes 60k or below with a family can afford something like that. Even 80k with a family, mortgage, medical bills, car payments etc couldn't possibly afford it. Most people don't have credit card with an 8,000 dollar available balance. So placing this in perspective based on todays economy and what people can really afford, it's geared for the enthusiast that has money to burn...
Kirk Cunningham of course. This isn’t a cheaply made mass produced product. It couldn’t be made for a lot cheaper unfortunately. For those of us who can’t justify or even afford something like this, there exist cheaper options. High end audio is and always has been expensive. That’s true of any hobby.
To be honest, I think your target market is low. Unless someone is very passionate, my guess is that the average income for someone buying this is double the numbers you gave. That’s ok, that’s a very large market. Legacy wouldn’t exist if it tried to compete in the mass market. All of his products are hand made in Illinois.
@@PoesAcoustics i was being generous towards an enthusiast who may be divorced, widowed or retired. A starting income point of reference. Unless you have money to burn on this hobby, spending 8 grand for any piece of audio equipment falls within a budget of craziness in my opinion and you end up in a rabbit hole chasing a rabbit that quite frankly doesn't exist. Don't get me wrong, I believe in high end gear if you want it and can afford it. However, this like any other hobby becomes endless in which you end up not being satisfied with what you've built and how good are your ears?? For 8 grand, you can have a dynamite system that sounds awesome and become satisfied if you allow yourself to be. I love the company and the new amp. I was just adding to the post.
I tried to like class d but then i listed to my OTL amps and the soul and depth and emotion comes back at full force even the best solid state sound flat in comparison and souless. Sure the bass is louder and it will play louder but that's it listener fatigue for me sets in .I believe some people like solid state sound but they seem to be people who are not as in touch with inner beauty and seem a bit shallow and cold in general. The type that brag about watts per channel and how loud their system plays and that tubes are old fashioned and that is why they did not make as many in the 70s .Well most of us know it had nothing to do with sound but profit for the manufacturers. Tubes last for years if cared for properly. Class D will never sound as right as tubes for rockin roll maybe but for vocals jazz or soft rock classical country good old country not what they pass for country today lol. Tubes all the way. If i hear a class D that moves me emotional like my Joule Electra 160 mono OTls i will buy it because i am getting to old to bias 26 tubes every time i want to listen then do it again one hour later
Imagine this as a 3-channel amplifier to power your LCR home cimena speakers... What a sound this could be!!
Ice Power actually makes amplifiers specifically designed to go inside powered loud speakers, so this is entirely possible.
Legacy Audio can customize a component for you. They added 2 ultra-wideband ICE modules to my Legacy Audio Aeris speakers. This is configured with two 325 watt modules for the tweeter/super-tweeter and mid-range/mid-woofer, and two 500 watt modules for the two sub-woofers. There are 3 balanced cables from the Legacy Audio Wavelet pre-amp to each speaker. The modules they used were from their (2 and 4 channel) PowerBlock products. My Denon AVR (4500X) pre-out mains goes into the Wavelet. The AVR drives the surround speakers. I don't bother with a center channel (even though I have Martin Logan 30i) as the imagery from these speakers is amazing.
$8000! Sure, everyone will be running out to buy it to go with the Legacy Audio $80,000 speakers. Oh wait. I only buy active speakers so don't need a separate amp.
Hi Carl, Legacy Audio has a full line of 16 speaker models, starting at $898 each- the VALOR are our top of the line model. We have options for active speakers, in addition to passive. We hope you'll be able to experience them.
and i request u to suggest me right amp for my living room sir and i am from india
Nice, but that's all a waste for home theater. For two channel I can see it, but any capable amp can make the boom go.
i don't know, the British know sound and they don't seem to like Class D amps. Perhaps they're still to expensive compared to others.
Take your hand out of your pocket . Odd left hand tic.
Odd comment
Sounds like more of an ad for ICE then for Legacy
icepower.dk/
Have we gotten to the point where your really asking yourself how do you want your ICE modules packaged rather the one Amplifier company vs another?
Back to the old how many watts does your 8-channel amplifier produce. 4000 Watts sustained from a common 115VAC circuit breaker at 15AMP wall socket sounds a little ambitious.
This amp can operate on a 220v 30a circuit.
@@Audioholics Wow! A normal 220 3-phase electric dryer circuit could in fact easily deliver 4000W with a 90% efficiency Class-D Amp. That'd be one big home theater. I'm looking forward to your test results.
I wish it was not "Audiophile"
(another word for overpriced)
we need more power 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 W per channel , LOL you are going in wrong direction
Class D is the future for home audio. Been enjoying it in car Audio for some time. Much Smaller, Cooler, Less Power Draw, what's not to love.
Horwood you are correct. Class D would be fine for receiver channels but thats it. I used to be an amp atheist until I started using an amp that is class A for the first ten watts, the difference was noticeable. More important things than "efficency", at least for audio. Like the sound. I can see where some manufacturers like the idea of ordering six packs of class D, throwing in some mosfets for flavor, but if that's the "future", well, so was CD. And while digital has its place, running analog through ANY digital device is really a waste of time
@@ianjohnhorwood2605 true for some but, hypex nCores 400 measure very well.
@@musicman8270 I would challenge you to take a look at the OCD Hifi guy video on youtube where he compares the AGD Vivace mono's to a pair of single ended triode amps. After failing miserably he switched that pair of SET's out for a pair of Canary Audio mono's and it was much closer. You can hear the difference right from CZcams audio so it wasn't subtle.
I have pyle amp 8 channels 1000 watts per channel ...$250.00 on ebay brand new.
Class D sounds awful, I can pick it in my blind test each time I hear class D
Ever see something. And know before you even look.... You can't afford it
See and this is what I was afraid of, these high end companies totally overpricing a class d module amp . Fancy chassis, Nice knobs and they slap prices on there that are ridiculous high for what it really is. Don’t get me wrong, great that class d got this far but i got a crown that does the same and then some for lot less than what these guys ask guaranteed.
They pretend they reinvented the wheel .. 😒
And again don’t get me wrong, cool story , cool product but this will become the new “cool” class d topology amplifiers for high end prices.
It’s silly and totally ridiculous
I have a crown also but I also understand they are not perfect or even close. The flip side is they are a great compromise. The law of diminishing returns starts to kick in around their price range. Audio Science Review has detailed tests that can show you the weaknesses and strengths.
Greg Kramer I am not using my crown to drive my main speakers. But I can tell you this I paid 425usd for my 2502 xls (highest model you can get in the drivecore2 lineup)
They all come with low, band, high pass crossovers aside from the ridiculous power numbers they can produce. At a fraction of the cost this legacy is . I dare to state it will perform on par with it.
Remember how many audio snobs still and always have ignored class d as a subpar “audio” worthy amplifier. Do not mistake my paragraph for hatred toward high end brands . I do however hate the fact they now pretend to have reinvented class d and utilize is as a high end “thing”
It’s not , class d it’s ridiculously simple and cheap in its inherent design. However they sell it as something special and high end in price ! That to me is the equivalent of snake oil..
Needs bigger heat sinks because “insert trivial reasoning in here”
Also you mention not perfect? Any class a or ab would be further away from that perfection you talk about. It’s an amplifier, all it needs to do is amplify with inaudible distortion that’s it.
Most class d do that these days! I took crown as a good example of that
@@gregkramer5588 Your Crown will sound just like the Legacy High Powered Class D Amplifier if you connect it with $1000 /feet XLR cables!! (😂 )
Michalis Roussounelos lol I am sure it will, I use ati build amps on my main speakers so not a crown fanboy here.
Listen also to what he says “4000watts 4 channel theoretically if you have the ac power to accommodate that”
I call bs on it , since when does it take tons of amperage to drive a class d to high numbers like that. It doesn’t, so what the sales pitch here is “if you have enough amps/voltage you will reach that 1000wpc number”
Hilarious, I am sure it’s a good amp don’t get me wrong here. But I am super skeptical about the specs mentioned here. And even if that would be true ?! Check the price just did..
The amp shown here is called iv7, it can all be yours for a whopping 8000usd, I do not envy the gullible idiot that
Buys these !!!
Edit!! Did some digging it’s 600 wpc 7 channels is their biggest one at the moment. Still impressive but not for 8k 😂