Three Stages of Painting: Egocentric, Geocentric & Heliocentric | Odd Nerdrum and Jan-Ove Tuv
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 08. 2024
- Jan-Ove Tuv sat down for a special interview with Odd Nerdrum to talk about the Egocentric, Geocentric and Heliocentric level - three stages of painting developed by Nerdrum and initially inspired by thoughts proposed by Tuv.
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00:22 The three levels of painting: Ego-, Geo- and Heliocentric
06:02 The sketch as the last layer
07:53 Scraping and digging to get the ultimate expression
09:07 Presentation vs Re-presentation
15:26 The aggression against the Greeks: envy or ideologically wrong?
18:23 Polytheism and a more harmonic life
23:58 Improvement presupposes a standard
28:05 Linear versus Circular time
32:15 Only Greek objects destroyed, or the problem of monotheism
35:36 Painters on the highest level are similar in all times
37:00 Aristotle on telling stories from the underworld
39:12 You cannot make heliocentric images from a specific time
41:39 A good picture is eternal
44:32 Marxist times with marxist rules
Filmed and edited by Bork Nerdrum.
Video commissioned by Studio Incamminati in Philadelphia, U.S.
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interesting talk, very informative. Coming from a Chinese cultural background, I never thought that there is a separation between an individual and the universe. The perception of an "individual" compared to a "collective" is quite different than that of the western culture. According to YiJing, each individual is a crystallisation of the whole universe itself. Therefore if you are truly getting to know yourself, you are inevitably getting to know the whole universe. In traditional Chinese painting, you are not painting what is outside, what is around you. whatever you paint, you are painting yourself, however large or small, holistic or specific, landscape or figure, animal or human. If someone is interested in this idea, I would suggest the French-chinese philosopher Franscois Cheng's books.
Thx for the Interview. We strive to paint the eternal which never can be described, painted or composed, only pointed at. Odd, Rembrandt Titian and the like are the very best at pointing.
Very true...as creative expression is at its highest form an impersonation of the creator. Creating a world or a shadow of a world. Whether an impression, an expression or a hyper realistic rendition, all things created are a romantic attempt to capture the mystery that s life. Not to mention the reason why. Thanks for your comment !
The linear idea of ever progressing better to better begins with the enlightenment.
That is exactly right. A lot of valuable information about this in Larry Shiner's "The Invention of Art".
I think itâs debatable whether a deterioration in the values of painting necessarily _proceeds_ from the Enlightenment. I mean the Enlightenment itself isnât at fault. Do we really want to point the finger at the word âprogressâ? In what sense are kitsch painters _not_ involved in knowledge creation? They are discovering how to make a painting that truly works from an eternal sense. Perhaps youâd be tempted to call it rediscovery, so knowledge excavation, but no, when Salvo paints he is solving particular problems which the particular painting presents. I like David Deutschâs sense of knowledge as that which _doesnât_ end up in the wastebin. What the painters associated with Nerdrum are trying to do would seem then to be exceedingly in line with this view. The Greek sculptures were attacked on account of the failure of âknowledgeâ on the part of those who did. This is a fascinating point of contention or misunderstanding (Iâm thinking of Alan Duganâs poem: âAgainst the Text, Art is Immortalâ)
Excellent conversation. Much appreciated!
Having lived my working life in film, I learned never to bother with anything any director or actor said about themselves or their work, because the tiny, _tiny_ bits that were even understandable, were likely not even true. I silently admire Nerdrum's paintings, but I now add painters to the same category.
I agree.
What an enriching conversation! So beautiful and inspiring. Thanks and best wishes.
Thank you much.! Amazing conversation.!
Oh Wow, didn't see that coming...
Thank you! I feel like a sane person now, knowing that most of the people I am surrounded with are just⊠normal majority đ
One can't describe nature in one sitting or two sittings. To REpresent nature takes into account the dimension of time or psyche perhaps. I would suggest the painter can interpret the existence of a natural thing, taking into account the metaphysical, by the processes the great painters employed. Allowing transparencies on the surface to be the windows through which the view of memory, subliminal or subtle psychological states may be manifest. The Heliocentric realm is reached by expanding the dimension between the viewers retina and the canvas. Incidentally, I find it a little strange that in all the discussions I've come across so far referring to Odd's work, Kitsch or the techniques and philosophies of painting that arguably the greatest atmospheric landscape painter has never been mentioned. That being JWM Turner.
His later works are the greatest sublime paintings in history. His technique was one of adding and subtracting layers until a translucent image was achieved. Certainly heliocentric. Constable on the other hand is a great example of a a naturalist , geocentric. Your thoughts?
Thank you! Rembrandt!! The demigod of painting!!! Thank you!
What a nice surprise
Heliocentric, I accept your challenge Mr. Nerdrum.
If you paint or point to the eternal, it is good. If you become that which you point to, it is very good.
I would love to learn to paint in his studio, what a blessing if you have
Koselig atmosfĂŠre mellom dere
Painting is a transcendent and metaphysical practice
Fantastisk! Kommer det en del to?
Thank you for this interesting dialogue. What they are saying about circular and linear time reminds me of the idea of deep memes from Chad Haag.
Muchas gracias
Carravagio approved this lighting âïž
precisamos de mais entrevistas com ele
8:12 9:36 11:44 24:55 30:22 31:44 34:47 39:50 41:39 44:24
What is the word that sounds like âoh-pakâ?
From what I can tell, it's a mispronunciation of the word "opaque," which can mean unclear, cloudy, or difficult to understand.
Interesting.
Interesting discussion "the public don,t like representational paintings in painting" Could it be something to do with our consciuosness being distorted through TV programing of Children tv viewing where simplistic unreprepresentional {cartoon figures}
are conditioning children about aesthetics in Art.?
Why is dark on studio ? Odd...
Or they want create an "idol".
Geocentrism is what? Opaque? Au parc?
seeing a lot of parallels with this video czcams.com/video/DTBDrrHl5V0/video.html the part of still living in a christian era and of marxism being still religious but materialist. i just wanted to leave this here for anyone who may find it interesting or entertaining
Oh park?
To make western painting more relevant someone could paint a portrait of Projet Mozammed.
Very interesting . They speak about religion, The greeks and christianity, the greek gods may have given a more free way of life, without sin, and the scare of eternal damnation . But listen what did Jesus say that offended anyone ? He said Love your enemy, that means the greeks, that means the Hindus, that means your neighbour, Palestine too . Remember the Samaritan who helped the poor fellow on the ground, the samaritan didnt even ask for his belief, he just helped him and even payed for his stay at the inn . We have been given the true word of our creator and his Son, Jesus . Thats scary, suddenly we know what our creators intentions for our lives, its not to religionize, but to belive . Love you guys ! all the best from here, stay cool . 45:30 Nerdrum says were in Marxist times, and the irony is that Socialists are godless, they are atheists, but use the gospel freely witouth crediting the author, likewise sociology . And the conservative rightside, are usually believers . Astronomer Fred Hoyle said, it was better back in the aristocratic times, for they didnt have to rely on comittys for wild science projects, some crazy rich aristocrat could blow off a million dollars on a wild expedition, like Uncle Scrooge . Before socialsim bought the entire education system and institutions, kings were the artist customer .
marx and jesus are but shadows...long live light spiritual light inner light...gotta say it
This is a wonderful talk, however Iâm disappointed there seems to be here a conflation of the paganism imposed on a people called Christianity and the actual gnostic origins and teachings of Christ. Gnostic Christians were apolitical spiritual quasi libertarians who existed most of the day in that heliocentric state. Here in the USA, most adults Act 17, and in Acts 17 St. Paul tells of his kinsmen Jason and the inverted world. Later in Athens, Paul explains who the statue to the unknown god is. Jude tells of the angels who didnât keep to their realm and met humans on the street.
You might want to read Christian scripture before conflating Christianity so called with the paganism that swallowed it. Christ taught to give Caesar what is his (nothing) and practice civil disobedience in a parallel society. But alas, there is nein eleven, just sept II a gint.
Christ had 13 disciples - disciple means student. He repeadedly mocks them to their face and chastises their geocentricism.
Christ, in Luke, sends out 72 disciples in pairs (2x36) into the desert to spread the good news and heal and exorcise demons. Uranium 236 is embedded here. The radio active.
Stable Carbon has 6 protons 6 neutrons and 6 electrons - 666 is clearly the number of man and beast- the CaBaL of Carbon Based Life. In the Koran- the surrah on the Djinn / Genius is no. 72
There are 114 surrahs in the Koran and 114 logia in the Gospel of Judas Thomas The Twin.
In John 1:14 the word is made flesh.
The 13 Disciples are failed students
The 72 Apostles are genius / genie
And here shi comes - walk-in downs the streetâŠ
Turns out you donât know Christianity
Jason if Acts 17 is clearly Jason losing his Golden Fleece - or seeing the taking of the piss - the Golden Fleece job. Yeah- turns out the New Testament is just Greek mythology about Jonah/Jason in the inverted world of Acts 17.
Christ has a multicultural group of means a women followers that included aristocracy and fish men. Doesnât sound like frankfurts, guys. Fuck that sausage party.
In Jonah 2 - Jonah describes hitting the ocean floor and dying , succumbing to the depths of Sheol with seaweed wrapped around his head. This is code for sushi. Sous in French - to follow / second in command and Shi- Japanese for 4 and death. Sous Shi is the second death we await here in Hades/Sheol. We await the harrowing of hell aka the H2O. Thatâs the three days surrounding the Easter egg eventâŠ
72 hours.
We get the word quarantine from the Italian quarantina - meaning 40 days. In John 20:22 Christ breaths out the pneuma of Pentecost.
Tic tacâŠ
Ahaha. It's so little light it's ridiculous.
let's all listen to the two guys sitting in the dark who look like ogres, discussing how evil doesn't exist and is just a deception, and we should all worship idols and false manmade characters. or. evil does exist and these two fellows are deceived, hm.
R yall gnostic??
What is all this? The devil was there when adam and Eve were in the garden of eden.
Marlon Brando off-camera, shaved head and muttering something about the horror