Upgrade for Better AIR FLOW on Your Overhangs and Bridges
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- It's amazing what you uncover when you're not even trying!
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I've always known that the part cooling is not that good on the Bambu, but it's a really good printer that gives me almost no trouble at all, so I can't really complain. What I can do it improve an already great printer, so that's the goal for this video. How can we take the Part cooling to the next level. I have an upgrade that I requested to be sent to me from BIQU and they were nice enough to send it to me, it is called the Panda Jet and it's meant to be a simple swap to completely change the part cooling on this printer.
When I see these images of air flowing in perfect streams, I normally look the other way, but I saw that it had 4 ports set on a diagonal to the axis and it seemed like a pretty good idea, and I was also curious about MJF 3D printing and I wanted to see what it looked like.
Before we do anything in this video we need to take some time to understand the problem and make some test prints to that we have something to compare against, and for that I'm using PLA and PETG-CF and I'm also using the Ender 3 V3 from my previous testing video.
One way to support this channel is through my affiliate links (where I receive a small commission). It helps me to continue to provide high-quality content videos. Thank you for your support!
If you think the upgrade is right for you, here is a link to the BIQU webpage, this one is called the PANDA JET: shrsl.com/4jhht
BIQU other Bambu upgrades:
shrsl.com/4jhi0
#1 Core XY - Best bang-for-buck
QIDI Q1 Pro - qidi3d.com/products/q1-pro?sc...
This printer isn't as full featured as the X1C, but it is very capable and very precise. It also has a heated chamber and can reach higher hot end temps.
#2 Core XY - Most features with great results but Pricey $$
Bambu X1C - shrsl.com/4j1gz
#bambu
#x1c
#upgrade - Jak na to + styl
First time I see a camera below the water. Genius.
Genius or stupid... I nearly ruined my phone when the water went over the edge... We got it in the end luckily after quite a few tries. I learned a lot on that one about which lens on the phone does what.
Amazing job filming all of this as clearly as you did. Those dentist's mirror shots were awesome!
the video quality of this! so thorough through the subject!
I installed one of these a couple weeks ago and didn't see much improvement. I just took it back off and checked the ports. I also had 2 ports blocked with powder. Looks like they need some better QC. But, its an easy fix and I'm looking forward to better part cooling now
China QC
Wow - I’m definitely checking anything SLS more closely now.
Did you test after fixing it?
@@lazyman1011it all comes down to what people are willing to pay for. I work directly with Chinese manufacturers, and they do absolutely amazing work. The problem is people want ultra high quality stuff for the price of the lowest quality stuff, apparently not realizing that those two desires work in opposition to each other and have to be compromised in some direction, either towards higher price or lower quality. Instead of blaming China for making bad stuff, maybe look at home for the forces that are trying to convince you that you should somehow be able to get cheap and high quality. There's the classic engineering adage: fast, cheap, good, choose two. I don't even really think you can reliably take two of those, it's often just one.
@@evanbarnes9984 I worked year’s in China. I don’t want to blame them. It’s kind of a mentality. My BambuLab printer I.e. could have all the bugfixes and features from the beginning and no need to print some better parts or fixes.
The most people are like robots and not allowed to say their opinion or use there brain. Sure cost is one thing and profit optimisation. But quality takes so much effort I design my stuff and let it produce in Europe instead of China. Many fall back to there homecountry or nearby countries after this China experience. Only if cost is your only factor or you are a big player like Apple You’re able to produce there.
I bet if I order the exact same part from my supplier in Germany, I don’t even have to tell him something and all 1000 pieces will arrive without that issue.
Really great content. Perfect tone & pace for the spoken aspect, elaborate analysis, clear explanations.
Very surprised by the very poor finish of the BIQU while they had the chance to cherry pick it.
Very informative. Good call on the blocked ports. Looking forward to your next video.
Please, test Panda Revo hot end!
Top work Mike with an excellent visual presentation of what's going with the airflow. Really well done. Content like this is what will keep people coming back for more. Really good work on identifying the slicer's role in producing good bridging results too. I wonder if Orca slider would do a little better on the bridging when using Monotonic Line for the infill for the layer just above the bridge, as opposed to Rectilinear. I use Monotonic Line myself which doesn't have any portions that run along the bridge line, and I wonder if that small setting difference might help to clean things up a little better?
Great review! The upgrade I have been waiting for. PETG overhangs is virtually impossible with the cooling.
Great job checking the ports. I know I would have just slapped in the part and then get more frustrated. 😊
If it wasn't for making the video and trying to understand it, I would have done the exact same. BIQU responded to my email to say thanks for spotting the problem and that they have made sure to address the problem.
Impressive test 👍😃
My Panda jet just came in today. Can't wait to install it and test it out!
Would be nice to see a follow up vid with bridge setup dial in.
Probably should have looked at videos like this before buying my Panda jet a couple weeks ago. Must say, I didn't even do a before and after comparison, and just installed it and moved on.
Happy to see the PR for this was true. I will for sure be checking mine for blocked ducts after seeing just how clogged yours was. Especially since I've noticed poorer cooling performance on a single consistent side.
Great video all up! My P1S also had the OEM duct glued in.
One other note, I find the noise produced by the Part Fan to be less irritating with the new Panda Jet duct as well.
Lovely, professional job as always
Really appreciate the video. Just looked at my biqu cooling adapter and it is full of powder.
Nice video. And you're right. The color and humidity of the filament affect the print.
Very good informational video, thank you. I bought a Q1 Pro from your link when you first reviewed it. Could you make more videos about the Q1 Pro please. I have yet set it up or tried to use it because I was out of town for 6 weeks. Their customer support was great when I contacted them about shipping to the west coast (I live in the upper mid-west). They shipped it within 3 days and kept me informed!! Looking forward to learning the Q1 Pro. Thanks again for the videos.
Great work. Congrats. I would be very interested in seeing other extruders catalogged like this. I got a. Voron and with stealth burner, always thought the air flow are weak and offset. Would be nice to see it like you show with the water and cameras
Nice work. I've added a Panda Jet to my P1S a few weeks ago, and didn't check about ports obstruction. I'm travelling right now, bu as soon as I get back will do that immediately. Thanks for the great evaluation.
It's probably on at least 50% of them, it could be as high as 100% since the process of manufacture is the same. I'd imagine that they go into a tumbler to clear off most of the powder, but it could also be partially a hand process. It's a good thing that they're durable because I gave them some hard whacks off of the bench. I guess a pipe-cleaner would have been a good option now that I think of it... for cleaning pipes. Let me know how it goes, I'm curious if you have the issue too.
@@NeedItMakeIt, just to give a feedback. Returned from my trip, and mine had one duct obstructed. Living in an apartment with no access to an air compressor, rinsed with hot water and blown by mouth was enough to clear it. Tks!
Great video, the water really helped with the visuals great idea.
I wonder if the movement of the bed on the v3 makes a difference to bridging?
Thanks for this video! It resulted in an instabuy of the "PANDA JET". 😃
I'd noticed the side of prints closest to the left of the x1c printer were slightly nicer. I had assumed it was the chamber fan.
Please test the Ben2C Nautilus !
Maybe try their toolhead plate replacement and see if it makes any difference
Biqu about to get deluged with orders 😂 I just got the BIQU Panda Lux LED Upgrade (they address the 0.3A issue) and it’s fantastic, I would buy this right now but I don’t do much PETG with overhangs.
This episode is why I subscribed. Thank you.
NOTE: I wonder if the BambuLab would be further improved if the fan is modeled more towards the Ender-style fan. And I wonder if the Ender can be improved with a different type of port exhaust?
I see you have the Qidi Tech Q1 Pro fan initially and state it's the best bang for buck in your description. Could you test to show how the part cooling is performing on this printer and if any mods have / could be designed to improve it?
Amazing and helpful video!
Looking for a good cooling upgrade solution for the Ender 3 V3 KE. I'm trying to print a spring-like 3d model, with very thin diameter, and the cooling there is crucial. External fans (or fan ducts pointing to the bed) actually can help? maybe this can be tested on a future video?
Thanks, and keep with the good work! 🙌
Thank you. Definitely would like to see the install of BIQU light bar. Lots of conflicting information out there with respect to running the stock and Panda Lux simultaneously. Hopefully you can shed some honest light here 😉
I just received it- it’s great. And NO you should not run it with the stock light. There’s zero conflicting information from official sources because both Bambu Lab and Biqu acknowledge that the max output is 0.3A. So you can either run the Panda Lux OR the stock light, but not both. The confusion stems from the fact that the lux includes a splitter and additional wire to run them both, for those who want to take the risk. BBL says don’t risk it, and BIQU concurs and informs consumers on the website, in the insert in the packaging, and on their official installation video (it’s on CZcams just search for panda lux). So that’s the final word.
Also it looks great.
Great video. 👍👍🙏🙏
Great look at part cooling fans, I would of said the standard duct on the X1C starts to degrade at 30% as that's where it starts to look different. I too have had some better results on the cheaper filaments sometimes. As we know the colour affects the amount the print shrinks it makes sense that it would also affect bridging too.
Thanks! I suppose I could have gone a lot of further too but I only gave myself 1 week for this video. I'd love to have come up with a better way to measure air pressure right below the nozzle, maybe something digital? Almost like a strain gauge of sorts. I'm not sure if such a devise exists. That's a good point about the color, the color itself is an additive and it only makes sense that it would affect the properties. I'll continue to work on the PETG-CF in grey because I'm pretty sure I can dial it in, for me, I'll never bridge that far anyway, but it's nice to know that it can be done.
I'm about to pair this fan shroud up with the "Fully Assembled High Flow ObXidian™ HotEnd for Bambu Lab X1/P1 Series" by E3D for some serious high-speed printing. With that hotend you can easily go from 12 to 30+ mm3/sec for the volumetric flow rate so I'll really be able to spit out the filament.
The X1C seems to struggle with PETG in general has been my experience
petg-cf ahs been kicking my butt on a big print for over a month :)
Could you point to the bridging test you were using in the video, did not come across this one before ... thanks
I don't think you can compare the relative strength of the air flow in the way you are doing. These centrifugal blowers are designed to create *pressure*, not air flow. If the smaller outlet gets more of the directional airflow, it's going to develop a higher pressure which then applies back pressure to the incoming air stream, which will then direct more towards the other outlet. It won't reach a perfect balance, but it's not simply a matter of balancing or directing the air stream.
The new one definitely looks better though, much better balanced. And the colour and fillers do indeed matter!
Also. Saw a video talking about wall line order, as inner/outter/inner being the best for part quality and overhang, but I can't get it on my mind how come. Would be nice to see a comparison and study from you.
Has Bambu published any drawings of their parts, like those fan ducts?
I don't generally like to 'upgrade'or mod my printer, but this actually seems like it's worth it, especially if it's inexpensive.
Im interested in this upgrade, but that left over powder inside has me very hesitant. I don't have an air compressor to remove gunk like that, and I especially don't want this kind of gunk going into my prints. Is this kind of post factory stuff in every unit?
The BQ is the worse I've tested, surprising you obtain better results than with stock. The big issue with these aftermarket fan duct is that you cannot remove them during print when head is above poop funnel.
Based on the comparison video fromDIY PERSPECTIVE the Q1 also has subpar cooling compared to P1S. I wonder, since the design seems similar.
Do you check temperatures with K-type thermocouple? Thermistors on different printers can have different temperatures. 245°c on different Bambu printers that I have actually have different temperatures.
I wish you would have compared with a CPAP system, is it really a game changer ?!
Funny how you measured the bridging angles in the tests as negative from horizontal (which is zero). All tests I've used measure it as positive from horizontal (so that your -20 degrees is 70 degrees).
Might be because it’s how Bambu Studio and Orca measure overhangs as the former, even though most users do the latter
@@aeonjoey3d I should've known :D Bambu Studio, doing things differently since 202X.
Great guide - just ordered a piece for me to try on my P1S
I'd love to see how this compares to the BEN2C Nautilus fan duct. I can't find anyone doing a review on it yet.
If the original one is glued, then BiQu could send their own version of cover, or create a stl for one so we could print it.
But it still seems that cooling is a thing that can be upgraded, but not sure if BiQu parts are good enouth with this quality - especially that we do have tools to create our own ducts?
Definitely seems like a worthwhile modification, kind of makes you wonder why the things weren't just made with this since they seem to have thought of everything else so well 🤷🏿♀️
Great video. I have some thing to add. I have printed petgcf exclusively for over a year and thousands of parts with some of the hardest bridges to make -curved overhangs. I struggled with the these overhangs and bridges right up until production at the print farm. The solution was no more than 50% overhang on the inside circle overhang, and bridges you need to slow down the speed settings in the slicer. In Orca your overhang speeds should go down in this order - 73-30-30-15-15-20. Then you need to turn on extrusion rate smoothing to 350. This causes the extruder to slow down in a ramped fashion just before the bridge and allows the filament to stick to the launch point(spot where the bridge starts over the air) and drag the line across while giving enough time for cooling. It's also important to check how the part is being sliced in detail. Make sure the slicer is pulling straight lines across the bridge in dark blue, not solid infill lines in light blue that zigzag. This becomes important when the part geometry changes or it's orientation on the bed does as the infill patterns always face the same direction across the bed. And one last thing - use a z.offset of 0.03-0.05 to prevent curling or blobbing at the nozzle.
These notes and parameters refer to which printer?
@@boboquad P1p with all hardened steel parts.
comment for the algorithm
was a great video
Have to imagine this will be fixed on their next iteration
Right! You know BBL watched this video with chagrin at the Creality water test vs theirs
Don't have any empirical evidence, but when my Ender 3 S1 Pro's part cooling fan failed, I switched to a blower and a trihorned duct and saw a marked difference in overhang quantity.
It's no easy task, I was thinking about a macro lens, but that's only useful at slow speeds, and slow speeds mean better cooling, so it's not going to allow us to test it well in reality. I was thinking about using something that simulated grass too. I think the best thing is just long-term testing. I think the blower like you did is close to the best, we can also move to the CPAP blower design and sit the fan up and away with a hose to feed the ducts for part cooling. I'd like to try that as well down the line.
@@NeedItMakeIt I just saw the CPAP on a video from RMRRP. I think that is an awesome concept.
Get the weight off the extruder and outside air would be cooler.
Not everyones Tool head port will have the same amount of glue fixing it to the cover and so the cover maybe damaged during removal, also I don't want to have to clean out the excess powder from a part I have paid good money for.
Until there are QC changes made I will not be buying this upgrade.
I checked out my X1C port and it is also glued in to the cover, by the amount of excess glue it looks like they used either a 3" brush or a cat to apply it, they got that stuff everywhere!
I saw another review of this duct (I think) and it didn't have as good of result - but I bet theirs was clogged and they didn't realize it!
This duct seems nice and I might upgrade my machines, but I am even more surprised how good the Creality cooling is. It's weird to see them actually stepping up, finally.
With all ports open it works better than I was expecting, quite a bit better actually. Before I mounted it I wasn't sure where it was going to put the air in relation to the nozzle, but it turned out great. If I hadn't remove the clog, it would have been a disaster for sure. I don't blame anyone for not catching it, I just happened to me taking quite a bit of time to test out the flow and when I blew into it with my mouth at first, no air was coming from the 2 ports... I showed the little blower, but I used my lips the first time... tasty nylon powder :) I would have loved to have a tiny camera to get inside there and see where the clogs were exactly, but I had no such camera that would fit. In any case, BIQU is aware of the problem and so is everyone who may want one in the future. Creality still falls short on the overall print quality, but is quite a bit better on cooling, and that was my experience with the K1 compared to the X1C as well. Bambu usually has a reason for their decisions, but in this case I can't think of a good one, it seems like they just didn't put quite as much thought into it as they could have.
I wonder how the black CFPETG would have done on the e3.
I'm super glad you tried the other color. That was the first thing I thought about the bridging test, "I wouldn't be so sure the colors will behave the same."
To be clear: it's the pigment mix that makes the difference. Maybe a different pigment (or a different amount of the same pigment) used to make black filament could perform even better than the red. 🤷 Similarly, maybe there's a way to make the same shade of red, but make the bridging perform worse due to a different pigment.
That makes sense, until I tested PETG-CF in a proper bridge test the difference didn't seem to be there, but it certainly was. I can always go further in my testing, but I only give myself 1 week per video, ideally I'd do 2/wk some videos take longer than others and this one took quite a bit longer than I was expecting. I'll be sure to keep this in mind for any future testing videos for PETG-CF the bridge settings and cooling do have an impact on real parts and it has been a bit of a pain to have near perfect prints except for the bridged areas. That problem should be a thing of the past.
I should have mentioned in my first post: thanks for the great video!
I learned several ways of visualizing airflow I hadn't seen before. I'll definitely be putting them to good use.
Did you leave the lid/door open?
I cannot post links but the video "3d printing bridges profile tuning" shows how to improve bridges when standard settings don't work. Maybe try that on the poorest bridges you got!
I'm curious if the new fan duct weighs more. It looks heavy. Otherwise, good content!
weighs 0.2g more than the genuine one
You blew that issue up, pretty big, I guess.
Modding the parts cooling is one of the first mods I usually do, you can allways turn the fan down, if needed.
Good to see a solution for bamboo printers, that helps with that.
great video, I thought about getting that very upgrade for my P1S. I would also be very curious to see your take on the panda revo as I have seen both good and bad
do you tink havving the bridgetests so thin/ close to the bed makes the test unprecise or nah?
yes i think that overhangs and bridges close to the bed are afected more or less in open or closed printer and AUX fan can help for this
a flow test and calibration might have played a role in the tests, over extrusion will defiantly make overhangs worse
I'm trying to access your discord but am unable to. Is the link in the description not functional?
Your share a sale link doesn't work. It says connection refused.
Isn’t black likely to perform worse since it tends to be made with re-grind plastic?
I understood that all of these were from Virgin material, but you could be right, I'd have to read the fine-print. Most of this was a surprise since I've never attempted to bridge this material before, bridging with PLA or ABS are both pretty easy in comparison, but PETG is not like the others.
Ha, sounds like Creality did more research on the cooling then Bambu did. Of course Creality also just has more experience mostly building the same machine over and over 😁
if they made something different every time no one would buy their products. There's such thing as a design that doesn't need changing because people still want it, not necessarily because it can't be improved.
@@shamancredible8632 I own a KE, I get it. Flashforge comes to mind when you mention different products. Good stuff, that nobody buys. Then again it looks like they've shrunk their product line lately.
Try reducing bridge flow to .80 or .75 will improve you're bridging dramatically
Okey, now I go and smash my Panda Jet on the table 😂
For now i'm not impressed by the Panda 😕
Your settings as example where interessting for the bridging test
Thanks for the video.
Was this a sponsored video? When a company is providing a product for free and a quick ad plug for their other products is at the end of the video… Did you have any talking points? Were you compensated beyond the free product? What agreements, if any, exist between you and Biqu?
I appreciate the video and see the results. Additionally, when channels are smaller, it’s important to be really clear about what is your honest opinion vs what is sponsored and a talking point.
"3D Printing Ultimate Bridging vacuum duct Crazy idea" search for thid
Great video … again. Another printer I am hearing a lot about is the FlashForge Adventure 5m and Pro. Not sure they are better than the Qidi or X1C but the 5M is no where the price. I have heard it called the poor man’s Bambu. lol. But it seems to have excellent printing. Might be a good one to check out.
Eee
christ their QC is bad, imagine all that powder blowing out all over your printer/room/lungs
The fact that you had to clear out all that junk just smacks of really poor quality control. As a result I’d be very unlikely to purchase this new part. Honestly I would have just installed it only to find out it didn’t pass the cooling air as described and have wasted all that work. So they get a big nope from me.
Why is everyone printing with CF materials? These tiny fiber-fragments don't add any value to the printmaterial, rather than the symbolic one of having CF in it.
CF PLA or PETG is basically contaminated material that has even weaker bond than solid filament. Carbon fiber has its strength due to interlocking (weaved) fibers, which is not the case in these filaments. I know it's off-topic, but I think there needs to be a bit of clarification regarding this.
Carbon fiber produces nicer matt surfaces though.
Another non believer. CF doesn't have to act like it does in the woven style to be beneficial. The parts are not weaker at all. They can feel lighter which gets interpreted by the mind as brittle. I have printed thousands of production use parts and have used them myself on construction sites over and over. CF infused adds rigidity, better finish, dimensional stability , less warping etc. And yes the parts are stronger in certain respects. Layer adhesion does not suffer like some reviewers say. It is a different material and requires very different settings in your slicer. You cannot treat petgcf like you do petg other than the offset. Many reviewers are using the same settings for their comparisons but that is the wrong way to compare two different materials. Don't knock it till you tweaked it.
@@phasesecuritytechnology6573 Take a good magnifying-glass or if you have a x60 microscope and see it for yourself. With a bit of common sense you’ll quickly notice that everything you have written is pure placebo.
There’re plenty of test here on CZcams that basically all say the same. It’s not as strong as usual material. The fibers block useful space for the plastic to adhere to itself. Mixing 3-day beard-hair into the filament will provide the same effect, with the added benefit of being biodegradable.
@TNX255 I agree. That’s about the only benefit, but there’s matte filament out there that will do the same job, but better.
Well said. Chopped CF filament have plenty advantages, and the stability is good during printing particularly combined with more warp prone materials and geometries as well as ,
bridging, overhangs etc.
@@phasesecuritytechnology6573 hey I am from germany and looking for businesses to print for. Would you mind sharing what exactly it is what you print and some pointers maybe how to get started? I have two babies to support and recently lost a leg so my normal job isnt possible anymore
Seems ok, not worth the marginally better results compared to the original. I'd rather make it if I need it instead of sending my money to a company that makes a product called "panda jet"
ender > bambulab, ez win
my pp + ur mom, ez win........elagoo > ender