Doing A Multiverse Saga: A Huge Mistake By Marvel
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2023
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The Multiverse Saga is a saga of films, television series, and television specials of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, encompassing Phase Four, Phase Five, and Phase Six. The saga began with WandaVision and will conclude with Avengers: Secret Wars. The saga gets its name from its prominent theme of the Multiverse.
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its not the multiverse, its bad writing
Spot on! Lol
I do think the Multiverse is part of it. It's hard for the casual audience goer to understand the complex story line. The thanos storyline was easy because it was about a bad guy collecting stones for greater power. Idk how to even explain the current story with Kang
@@gus9663as someone who's reads comics the way they are telling Kangs story is messy
@@gus9663 the concept itself is fine if you give the audience enough time to wrap their head around it. Keep in mind, they built up the infinity stones over the course of a decade
Spider-Man No way home was a multiverse movie and people loved it. Into the multiverse as well.
Its good stories and how these stories are told that makes them accessible.
Multiverse with good writing exemplifies the story. Multiverse with bad writing makes it feel like a gimmick.
well said
I think the big problem is that they actually haven't explored the multiverse itself enough. Doctor Strange would've been a perfect movie to do that, but they messed it up keeping us primarily in two universes.
So many missed opportunities there.
Agreed. But I would propose that they likely were also holding themselves back as well so as not to alienate audiences.
Fact is it might be a bit difficult to go full scale multiverse without losing the focus on the title character.
Doctor Strange 3 is coming . Patients is a virtue lol
The multiverse is like time travel, when it’s done good it’s great, when it’s done bad (most of the time) it’s confusing and hard to get through.
Exactly.
The Multiverse Saga isn't Marvel/Disney's problem, it's the writing and the execution, the tone, the lack of care.
It is a Disney problem
Exactly
I realized that the MCU's version of the multiverse is spawned from diverging timelines (Loki) ...parallel universes and time traveling are two enormous approaches. Now that they are trying to merge them together, it may be trying to bite off more than they can chew.
Watch, when Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars come out John will say that the Multiverse saga was the best idea Marvel ever had
Depends o n whether John's still pissed at Disney for kicking him out of D23.
You're assuming that those movies will be better than what they've been putting out lately. I hope they will be, but I don't have much faith anymore.
I dunno. A lot can change in 2 to 3 years.
They are both being written by the bad Rick And Morty writers that wrote the mediocre Loki, She-hulk, Doctor Strange 2 and Ant-Man 3. Feige has bet big on the Ricky and Morty writers and it hasn’t paid off. They have shown they just aren’t good enough, so having them write the new Avengers movies is a huge mistake.
@@Delboy0 Loki and Dr Strange 2 were really good.
Spider-Man has two huge and well-loved, critically-acclaimed blockbusters using a multi-verse concept. One animated, one live action. Those types of stories can be successful if the writing and execution are great.
I am still not convinced that the problem is the multi-verse saga. The problem is the quality of the movies.
The problem is not the multiverse, the problem is the bad writing.
The concept itself is solid, it’s the execution that’s the problem. You need good writing and time to introduce the multiverse to general audiences, something that comes incredibly hard to do when you quadruple the amount of projects you’re putting out
For me, multiverse makes it feel like any character that dies can get replaced. It lowers the stakes and cheapens character deaths.
Turning point was the infinity stones in the desk drawer on Loki
That made it seem like nothing else that was before mattered
I agree with John. I would add that it's just tiresome seeing so many movies and TV shows with the same multi-verse plot devices. We've seen multiple Spider-Men (in two movies!), multiple Lokis, multiple Kangs, multiple Dr. Stranges. And the CW DC shows did this before Marvel! Enough already.
Doing a Multiverse storyline isn't a bad thing. It's how it is done that counts. And how Marvel has been doing it is terrible.
We are only 3 movies (and 1 tv show) into the multiverse… be patient
When they do Young Avengers for real that will be their biggest mistake. We're already seeing several candidates for them and none of them are good.
Marvel's biggest mistake was to force audience to subscribe to D+ and watch sub-par TV series to understand the movies.
Loki is fantastic.
@@jonrahproductions Sorry should have said some sub-par TV shows. Agreed some were good but still we should not have to watch TV shows to understand a movie plot.
What I liked most about the MCU early phases was it was more grounded and showed what life could be like if we had superheroes. Eventually, it shifted to stories that feel less realistic and more silly. We went from Tony Stark building an Iron Man suit that looked and felt plausible to inside jokes and cosmic madness. Civil War to Mordo as a gag feel like totally different universes. I know that's the point, but they have drifted too far from the original vision Fury had. Remember that?
To be fair the Multiverse has only been in 4 projects and the projects with the biggest complaints had nothing to do with it
@Troy Bracy. You're the second person I read who thought Loki was confusing. I find it surprising since I thought it was standard time-travel/ alternate-universe trope from shows like Fringe, Sliders, Timeless, Travelers, Supernatural, the Terminator franchise, Edge of Tomorrow, and It's A Wonderful Life. Even though I've been reading science fiction since the 1960s, I had to watch Tenent twice because it confused the heck out of me too. Best regards.
@@troybracy2915 OK. Got it. Have a great day!
The MCU ended with Endgame. There is no reason for any of this newer shit to exist.
Isn’t Everything Everywhere All At Once about the multiverse, and wasn’t that for a more general audience? Didn’t hinder that film at all.
It’s not the concept, it’s the execution. Hell, some of Nolan’s films deal with more high-brow concepts regarding time than the concept of a multiverse, and that doesn’t necessarily make them turn-offs.
It's bad writing and no longer having a leading character/actor for the universe. Chris Evans and RDJ is what kept everyone coming back even if they weren't in that movie. You always knew it was tying into them and the Avengers.
I honestly feel like the issue is not the multiverse. It's just that the MCU is making bad and mediocre movies. Ever since endgame, there are more misses than hits.
Because just like the comics, the infinity gauntlet storyline was above anything else that came after. The only good thing that came after is the X-men, but they’ll destroy that storyline if they introduce them with this current multiverse BS. The apocalypse storyline is the only thing that can bring marvel to the original avengers level of success, but I just don’t see that happening. So once again, dc will outshine marvel in the next decade just like both companies have been doing in the past decades.
Iron man came out in 2008. It’s 2023. A lot of Marvels original young audience is grown up now. Not every movie has to be dark and serous. But I do think they need to start mixing more mature storylines with actual consequences (like characters dying) into their stores. Just my option though. Still a fan. I even liked Ant Man 3. I do think it could have been better if they took out some of the kids stuff though.
Lol what mutliverse there is like no multiverse. I'd actually want to see a multiverse.
At this point I’m just waiting on Marvel to introduce the X men & the fantastic 4.
The drop in sales is because nobody is an Ant man fan and it will be on Disney plus in 2 months. Marvel problem is the took Cap and iron man out at the same time
That’s not the problem. Chris evans and RDJ contracts were completed. Chris wanted to do other things and so did RDJ.
@@sab0024 Is that not the problem or truth? Not sure what you mean. Whether it’s the actors or Disney who decided to take those characters out people miss those characters. They along with Spider man and X-men are the most popular among marvel. I never met a Ant Man Fan. That and they fact they don’t have good villains like DC
It's not the concept, it's the writing. As much as I like MoM and NWH, they have different multiverse mechanics.
The way multiverse is being used in the saga seems like they're just hoping for the casuals to brush it off as comic book stuff. They don't bother fleshing it out. The multiverse so far is just another plot point and some other world. There're no themes around it.
Multiverse stuff can be IMMENSELY popular if it appeals to the masses properly. People fell in love with Tobey again and forgave Spider-man 3; Hell, they even became fans of Andrew Garfield's version of Peter Parker. It's too soon to say the Multiverse has been a mistake. If anything, the mistake might have been to make Endgame feel too much like a finale. They should have teased the Multiverse stuff as a post credits sequence, or at lease SOMETHING in the next phase.
Nobody ever stopped loving Tobey he’s the blueprint
I love the concept of the multiverse in Marvel because it gives validation to both other comic book movie universes and fanfiction. Whatever version of the characters and scenarios you think of, they could exist in the MCU. Because of Spider-Man: No Way Home, all the previous Spider-Man movie universes now retroactively have a greater purpose as opposed to being just failed previous attempts at a franchise.
I see a lot of people talking about “stakes”. These movies are based on comic books-where there have been a million secret wars and crisis. “Stakes” only last until the next storyline comes along.
So far, between DC and Marvel, it seems DC has a better handle on alternate universes and the multiverse. Even the CW has done it better.
It’s the execution and the writers they have that’s made it a bad idea
I don't think it is any "inside baseball" kind of thing. A bunch of Comic book fans started disliking the MCU well before now. It isn't that they are doing crazy stuff, it is that they are doing it very very poorly.
Agreed it has nothing to do with being inside baseball. if the story is good it doesnt matter how deep into comic book lore they go people will stay griped to there seats waiting to see what happens next
Exactly
Marvel time is up!.. it’s DC time to shine!
Want them both to succeed but I hear you. DC isn’t looking too bad rn. Waiting to see how it all plays out
I’m a DC fan.
We need both of them to be successful.
Like it or not
It's so nice seeing Ray have so much confidence on this show. He's a legit contribution in discussion
@@brucestark2858 I'm talking about his screen presence. I get that he doesn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of movies. But I don't think he has to in order to be entertaining.
I think out of all the projects they put out, only two have been BAD.
She hulk & Thor Love & Thunder
They’ve had waaaay more good projects then bad.
To quote the GOAT of superhero films, “you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain”
Perfect quote to describe the fans nowadays
I think Marvel should have had Phase 4 be an epilogue to the Infinity Saga, wrapping up all the loose ends. Shang Chi to give us the real Mandarin. Doctor Strange 2 should have followed up on Mordo wanting to remove sorcerers from the world. Black Widow because they should have given her a film after Winter Soldier. Take it slow, give people time to breathe after End Game, and let these films wrap up plot threads from the previous 3 phases. At the end you finish it with Spider-Man: No Way Home, the only film in Phase 4 to have multiverse stuff, and have that be the introduction of it. Then start off Phase 5 with Fantastic Four, have them gain their powers from an experiment involving the multiverse. Have this experiment bring in the X-Men and Dead Pool from other universes. Let Phase 5 be about bringing in these other acquired Marvel properties into the MCU, ending with an Avengers vs. X-Men movie. And then, after having slowly brought in the multiverse, then in Phase 6 we turn to the whole Kang plot line.
THIS!^^^^^^^^^^^
Wholeheartedly disagree with the title. Comics and other multiverse stuff (EEAAO) have proved it can be done very well. All comes down to execution.
Where else would the creatives go with the MCU? With the core heroes either dead or disbanded, you cant just rehash the same old plot points. Multiverse seems ideal bc its broader/bigger and it can unite the new heroes. The multiverse is also hard to pull off without dragging it out or rushing it too much
Multiverse isn’t the issue. People are not stupid they understand the concept. The thing is it hasn’t been executed well at all. It hasn’t been utilized and each movie was basically it’s own thing. There wasn’t a lot of connective tissue.
What made the infinity saga work was that the concept of the infinity stones was so fluid and vaguely defined that it allowed each project to do its thing without being compromised. The problem with the multiverse saga is that it’s focusing too much on the bigger picture and not enough on all the smaller elements that make each installment matter and I’m not talking about lore or world building. Each project needs to be good within their own right in order to contribute to a greater whole.
It just feels like it's been dragged out for a really long time. I know time travel is not the same thing, but it just blends together with the multiverse. Just feels like we've been in a loop that they can't get out of with those two things.
yep basically a self sustaining circle jerk of marvel gobbledy goop since endgame, its been hard to watch
I much would’ve preferred they had just done secret invasion or galactus the multiverse just seems like a pandoras box once you open it it can’t be closed
Maybe the problem is that the marvel writers don't manage this concept very well and that can lead to some plots and story lines getting out of their hands. It's like doctor strange said "the multiverse is a concept about which we know frighteningly little"
I don't think Multiverse the problem No way home Dr Strange 2 Loki season 1 was 3 of Marvels most successful recent projects...
Also Endgame is really a Multiverse movie lol
It's just been mediocre projects that's the problem not the Multiverse concepts in my opinion...
Love when people use FACTS in their arguments. Sloppy writing is what's turning people off. If Quantumania properly presented the threat of Kang including having consequences for the heroes that first encountered him, the movie would have been much better received
@@nataliajimenez1870 They did have consequences but Disney had the ending changed.
I hate the multiverse concept.
Same
I am excited to see Rama Tut, Immortus, and Centurion. Plus, who knows, maybe Kang pulled a Red Skull
Pretty sure Quantum Kang survived and has become more powerful. The other Kang's may be wrong.
I can give you a billion reasons that it's not a mistake.
I’ve checked out of Disney content because the quality is getting really bad. CGI, lame jokes and poor scripts is seeing everyone tune out. It’s just terrible 🤦🏼♂️
Here is a quick point that no one is bringing up. The same amount of people that were going to the cinema during Endgame are not going to the cinema today!
She-Hulk made me not care honestly. I cancelled Disney plus and never looked back. Skipped Antman
Ok this makes no sense… there was not a room full of multiple Antmen. There was one antman. If he died, it matters. Having multiple kangs makes the stakes higher because they have to work harder to truly defeat him. Thanos was defeated and that was it. No more Thanos. You can kill Kang but he will keep coming. He’s organized. He understands time. There’s no council of antmen. No council of Wasps.
Sorry John but you really got that backwards
I rarely agree with this guy. But I agree with Jon 100% on this.
This multiverse thing is weak at best. It allows for the opportunity to retcon or rewrite history at a whim. There are no stakes. It’s such a ridiculous concept it’s impossible to wrap your head around it because you can explain anything away with any made up convenient half-baked theory….Because there are no longer any rules to play by.
This is not only why we see the MCU sputtering but Marvel/DC comics as well.
@@mikio6444 incorrect. You can’t rewrite history. You can access different universes but so far no one has been replaced with a variant. Time hasn’t been changed. History hasn’t been rewritten. If a hero dies, they die. Kang is a limitless character. The stakes are much higher
There are going to be stakes. The snap moment for Kang Dynasty is going to be the destruction of the MCU so they can reboot the MCU and easily integrate mutants without messing with character origin stories and allow new actors to take over Tony, Cap, etc.
Multiverse is already a complicated scenario in the comics and doesn’t always land well in written form. That’s a tough challenge for screenwriting especially if you’re trying to transcend relying on nostalgia or a basic idea like NWH or Injustice
There's another version of Thanos out there in the multiverse....
Somehow the MCU doesn't know how to make a Multiverse movie. Where the hell is this Multiverse??? Phase4 has been episodic with very terrible and rushed scripts..... Much like a Rick and Morty show lol. It's the writers. That's why MCU movies lately have that chaotic rushed climax only Rick and Morty fans appreciate
11:47 Well, Sam Raimi didn't bother watching WandaVision, and the writer pretty much ignored WandaVision.
Even worse, there are rumours the Rick & Morty writers are making Kang the author of the Darkhold instead of Chthon.
It's not the Multiverse. It's the writing & choices of content they're using to get there.
The only relevant things to know was Avengers, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange & Scarlet Witch.
I give Shang-Chi, BP2 & Moon Knight a pass.
The villain should've been Dr. Doom, not Kang as THE Main antagonistic of the chapter.
If you're going to use Kang, have it lead to "Operation: Galactic Storm" the Kree/Skull War.
The multiverse was not the problem. Hiring mediocre Rick and Morty writers who can’t write good films and shows was the biggest problem. No Way Home truly delivered a great multiverse story. Doctor Strange 2 was the most underwhelming multiverse story. It was called Multiverse of Madness, with infinite possibilities and they go to one multiverse, ignore the great character building of Wanda vision and the story led nowhere. Ricky Morty writers kinda ruined the multiverse saga and phase 4 with non-ambitious writing. We could have had a-list cameos with alternative versions of major avengers or even a DC crossover that would have blown minds and made billions and instead of that we got pizza balls and doctor strange with a ponytail. Just because you write a cult cartoon show on adult swim, it doesn’t mean you are good enough to write big marvel shows and films. Rick and Morty writers have written Loki, She-Hulk, doctor strange 2 and Ant-man and all disease projects have disappointed to differing levels. What is bad is these terrible Ricky and Morty writers are writing the two Avengers movies in Kang Dynasty and Secret War. They are killing the MCU, why is Feige still hiring them?
Completely agree Rick and Morty are destroying mcu
Cry babys, instead of having appreciation for all these stories and characters come to the big screen, they criticizing
Shang chi, Eternals, no way home, doctor strange 2, ant- man 3 these some of the new films I actually liked but I’ll still watch the MCU, I don’t mind the multiverse
Appreciating Love and thunder? 🤡
Yeah the topic of multiverse isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that every movie feels, looks, pace is the same. CGI fest, no stakes, humor every other line. It’s not the topic of the multiverse
Huge respect for this you tuber for speaking this thing. Marvel is just ego lifting this topic. Multiversal saga will only creating confusion. It looks like assignment before entering theater.
If they use the multiverse to connect to other Marvel movies like Jessica Alba Fantastic Four, Wesley Snipes Blade, David Hasselhoff Nick Fury, Eric Bana Hulk, the Fox Xmen movies, etc I think it would be exciting. Like the nostalgia bait they did with Spiderman NWH. But if it’s just “here’s a variant of Doctor Strange who has a different hairstyle. Here’s a variant that’s female. This one is same but evil. This one looks like a Pharaoh”
They are doing the multiverse for the worst reason possible. They are looking for easy shortcuts. They dont want to spend the time and money to develop the way they had to in phases 1 and 2.
Exactly. They're rushing Phase 4 to the point where we don't have enough time to care about the characters they want us to care about
How else can they explain mutants and fantastic four and other characters they just got the rights back to not being around this entire time? They can't go back a rewrite them into phase 1-2. Multiverse is the only way.
I feel like it was a missed opportunity to do multiverse MCU shows. Stories set in different universes. Building up to Secret Wars.
Maybe that's what they've been doing and we just don't know it yet
I honestly got off the MCU train ride after Endgame cause it was a satisfying end for me & I thoroughly enjoyed the movies of the Infinity Saga as well as the original six (Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye & Black Widow). Also, Thanos was a compelling villain & I loved Josh Brolin's portrayal of him...
Now I watch as a casual observer & I don't get excited to go watch at the cinema I'm ok watching online
Marvel, you have failed this fandom.
I remember you guys specifically talking about how great it was that a show like Moon Knight, She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel felt so standalone from the rest of the MCU as if it was not a part of the MCU, and now it is suddenly not? Multiverse of Madness, Loki, Wanda Vision and Ant-Man 3 are probably the only movies/shows out of phase-4-5 that as of right now has something setup from previous stuff where there is a big setup for future stuff. Seems like you guys are complaining just to complain when it comes to "NOW EVERYTHING IS NOT STANDALONE".
Well put.
loving the confidence Ray, love to hear more from you on the show! you make great points
Kang is basically a glorified footsoldier like the army of aliens from the first avengers
Multiverse only works if it's rarely crossed between and generally different universes are walled off. In the comics for the most part multiverse crossover is difficult and rare. In the last few movies alone they've introduced *several* characters who can cross over on a whim. It's already been reduced to an easy plot device, rather than a really important concept that isn't introduced outside of major events
I agree. There are some concepts, characters, and story lines that just don’t work in live action. The mulitiverse takes away from the realism and stakes that the infinity saga had. When there’s multiple versions of every character, the value of death is taken away. They should of stayed more grounded and only sprinkle some of the cosmic/quantum stuff like they did in the infinity saga.
I'd say that putting important MCU content behind a Disney+ subscription paywall was a mistake. Those shows should have been standalone experiences; that way they would just be bonuses for subscribers, and not unfairly essential to the fabric of the MCU for nonsubscribers who prefer to experience the franchise in theaters.
He had to do the multiverse saga to reset the MCU and bring in f4 and mutants etc they acquired after the MCU started
Feels like a fallacy to say that the problem now is that you have homework to do when you didn't before Phase 4 - because you absolutely did. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you could just watch Civil War or Avengers or Age of Ultron without doing any homework? And as for the Multiverse thing, I think what John is criticizing has more to do with bad writing and execution than the idea that it shouldn't be Multiverse. If that were true there would be no SciFi stories about the Multiverse. I think if it was way more simplified with rules that were clearer and more consistent it could have worked.
Nothing wrong with the multiverse The mcu just hasn’t been connecting it’s webs like it did in the previous phases. We’ve been hearing the promise that it will all make sense for some time now. And that’s the problem. I keep hearing how they need to make all this content digestible for the average user, if that’s the case why is it taking so long to connect the dots? Another thing is I don’t think anyone should underestimate the intelligence of the audience. To think that the audience is too dumb to grasp these concepts. The concepts aren’t hard to understand, but it gets hard to understand when it’s explained poorly. The very fact that John and every other content creator in CZcams has the conversation of “what is marvel doing wrong this phase” once a month should have marvel and Disney scrambling to get their heads back in the game. I kinda checked out after black panther 2. That movie was just awful. And yea I’m pissed that my favorite character (tchalla, not black panther) is just dead and not recast. Recasting tchalla would have at least solved the problem of leadership in the mcu. We don’t know a damn thing about where this ship is headed and it’s frustrating because we honestly can’t even make educated guesses like we could in the past.
And one more thing, if they’re gonna do the Disney plus thing for the series then for the love of god make the episodes longer. 30 minutes an episode is unacceptable when u have shows like the last of us and house of the dragon. Make the episodes longer so u can actually tell a GREAT story or don’t do it at all!
They don't have anyone to steal ideas from anymore! It's pretty clear there floating down the entertainment stream without a Rutter. I'm checking out from marvel and Disney.
The multiverse isn't the main problem here. The bigger problem is they just lost most of their main characters. Cap, Iron Man, Black Widow etc. They needed time to rebuild their world first. Then introduce your big concept. Also there's a lot of bad writing. You can't do a high concept well if your writing quality isn't up to the challenge. Also, as a comic fan I've never liked Kang. He's not as good a villain as Thanos or Doom. But I'm willing to see what Jonathon Majors does with the character because he's that good of an actor.
Well cap got the soul stone
I think this was the only way to introduce X-Men and the other former fox properties into the MCU. Because if they kept the two separate, folks would complain like crazy
John I completely disagree. The multiverse could be an absolute cash cow, and exciting, new way to look at these movies. The problem is not the multiverse. The problem is the multiverse being done in correctly. The argument that it gets too confusing and fantastical for the average fan has nothing to do with the multiverse. If you think about what’s ACTUALLY been touched on regarding the multiverse…Loki…Dr Strange, and to a small extent ant man. That’s IT. Those 3 projects…Skokie was widely liked, and Dr. strange although not great made 900million…the problem is that these movies have been complete let downs. If these movies were well written, and explored the cool and novel aspects of the multiverse then they would’ve been hits. As much as you hate on the current run of the Flash TV show on the CW..which I agree it’s not even the same show it was…but think Flash Season 2, which is one of the best seasons of comic book viewing ever made. It dove deep into the multiverse and doppelgängers and time remnants etc and it was some of the most compelling tv I’ve ever watched. The MCU is flailing because there’s WAY too much content, that seems to have much less rhyme or reason that phases 1-3. The idea that a fan could jump in at any point and not have to watch previous stuff to understand…that’s because each movie was in the infancy of the universe. Jumping in for an origin movie, or a sequel to an origin won’t be confusing. But we are now how many movies in? We have all new characters that basically need origins done all over again. These characters just flat out aren’t as compelling as the originals and the stories they are writing for them are either way off beat against what fans were expecting, or they try new beats and they don’t hit. Fans were expecting a ton of explanation of the multiverse, and a deep dive with a ton of different and wild cameos and surprises in doctor strange and all we got was a brief stay on a different earth and a quick fall through the universe with the cameos they had already given away in their commercials. The issue is that Marvel used to surprise and dazzle the audience with unexpected plot twists and great writing that simplified incredible and historic comic runs. That is just flat out not happening any more. Ant man was a completely original story, that didn’t touch the multiverse besides for Kang. It was just your basic superhero movie and fans are looking for more than just basic. If they’re going to dive into the multiverse they need to go full steam ahead. Is the multiverse really the problem? Or is it shows like she hulk and movies like ant man and dr strange being complete let downs and not feeling connected to each other in anyway.
Multiverse is too confusing. My dad used to go to marvel movies but he checked out when it got too confusing
I honestly hope the writing gets better im just tired of mediocre movies
Same
You might be looking at it backwards. The reason the other kangs, and scott are bringing up if Kang was really dead is to get you to question it because he will return.
The issue isn’t how they opened the multiverse but how they’re going to close it. They need to end the multiverse idea concretely to keep the single time line alive with stakes. Otherwise, as an audience member there are no stakes and it won’t matter.
“Focused on nothing but the multiverse.” There’s been 3, maybe 4 multiverse projects total? Out of the 16 films/shows in phase 4.
Dial down marvel, even if secret wars come until 2030. IDGAF. I will wait, time is always go on.
I think you're right for the most part, but for the sake of arguing the other side - since Endgame, the top 3 grossing films have all dealt with multiverse stuff: Spiderman Far From Home (not actually the multiverse, but Mysterio pretends to be from another universe, so the concepts are there), Spiderman No Way Home, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. We've had several non-multiverse films including some sequels that didn't make as much as earlier films in the franchise. I don't think the multiverse is the problem, it's the scripts.
We started this three years ago and all this multiverse talk has gone NOWHERE. There is also no anchor hero like there was the last 10 years. They rode that RDJ train until the end and now theres nothing to replace him. We have no reason to care about any of the current rosters heroes or villian(s).
Loki was incredible
I mean, can we wait till the Saga is done before we can say it's a mistake. Yikes, sometimes we as fans can be our worst enemies looooool.
Imagine dudes making a debate about infinite saga just after iron man 3 and Thor 2
Everybody wants to know everything at one time. These influencers will make or break shows and movies. They don't give enough credit to people ability to understand stuff. People watch what they want to watch and if u are a fan then you would want to watch all content. Making movies non dependent on watching the plus shows , make it kid friendly and not too long of a movie is hard.. Can't please everyone. Only if they can make the shows and the movies less goofy/ silly (Thor 4)( She Hulk) then maybe things will improve. Makes me very nervous about the up coming projects ie Deadpool, Blade and the rest of the mature content coming our way to Disney... Everybody worried about stakes and the multiverse ....
So I've been watching you for a minute and these movies have been good not great but good but these are stories are needed because the universe needs to grow and this is a natural progression
We're still early in the saga and Infinity War took a lot of time to be established.
The stakes were gone after eternals….. if earth is deemed not worthy then literally nothing matters
They need to find a Universe in the Multiverse that has funny jokes, good writings and isn’t generic cgi garbage.
I know Jon brings up how you could walk into most of the MCU without watching previous entries but how many folks really do that? Phase 1-3 all have sequel movies within them.
There's def entry points. But why would someone start on Ironman 3, Antman 3, Civil War, Avengers, No Way Home etc.. without watching any of their previous movies?
I agree that The certain shows may be a pre-requisite to a movie. But for a 30+ movie series I wouldn't expect ALL of them to be jumping on points.
The multi-verse isn't the problem. The problem is they have nothing to say about the multiverse. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't lead to anything. Phase 4 was just a collection of stories loosely called a 'multiverse saga' but did Eternals have anything to do with the multiverse? She hulk? Cap and Winter soldier? No.
That “RODOK” photoshop edit is hilarious..😅😅
It's not about the multiverse, it's about how they crammed too many show and movies in a year, making the end result (the story, VFX, etc) in term of quality less polish or even bad.