6.5 Creedmoor - 135gr Berger Classic Hunter
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- A look at the 135gr Berger Classic Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor. Powders for today are Alliant Reloder 17 and IMR 4350. Test gun is a Thompson Center Compass with a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with CZcams content policies.
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Johnny's Reloading Bench
Please discuss your use of the Berger 135 gr in your 6.5 Grendel. I'm curious as to your barrel twist, and stability and velocity.
I have 6.5 Grendel and use 123 gr. but often wonder about the heavier grained bullets, even the 140's.
Thanks, btw, have all but Creedmoor barrel for a build. Thanks for the great information and the education!
TacNipples what are tactical nipples those sound not so awsome but i guess maybe im wrong.
Crazy thing is you now have shot more money in ammo than the cost of the rifle.
ktmracer358 ! Thats true but if anyone shoots alot thats always the case. Even if its a 20k select fire transferable m16 that will happen within a couple years 50-60,000 rounds or so. My point is ammo is always the expensive part of Shooting.
That shows you why IMR 4350 has been my favorite powder for 40+ years!
Keep on "thinking out loud"! I'm learning a ton!
Reloading presents a myriad of rabbit trails. I think my brain works exactly like yours with reloading. You have the incredible gift of expressing the rabbit chasin’. If a guy will listen closely to you they will learn a lot. I know I have. Thank you.
Fantastic video man, I really liked you teaching your approach to making a charge for non existent load data. That’s really good information, then on top of that Shooting killer groups with a 300$ gun! So good!
This is what being a Reloader is all about…. Not just taking numbers out of a book.
+Johnny's Reloading Bench: This is just about 2 years late, _BU-U-U-T_ ... your not losing too many viewers - at least not *_this_* one...
Keep the explanations coming, my good man! These are much liked and needed! We're learning, right along w/ you.
AND, keep the vids coming, as well!
You sir are the reloading master. Thank you.
Thank you Johnny for all your video, I learned many things already from all yours that I watched. All the "thinking out loud" stuff are very informative :D Thank you again!
That IMR4350 is making good vibrations. Pretty good accuracy for a cheap combo! Berger is top dog in the accuracy world, doesn’t surprise me how consistent it shoots.
I couldn’t begin to explain how helpful this video was. Load development in my T3x 6.5 CM is showing same results with the same two powders
I found a good tip on another webcast for how to get a good measurement with your overall length tool. You put your cleaning rod into the barrel and push the bullet out with the cleaning rod. When you're inserting the bullet you will tap your push rod on your overall length tool and push back with the cleaning rod, and do this several times until you feel like you have just reached the lands.
Besides all the great information you provide I believe your demonstration on the length gauge and measuring the distance to the lands of the bore is one of the best I've seen. I always check that measurement after setting my resizing die .002" off the shoulder just to make sure the bullet being used is still supported in the case as it enters the rifling. I've seen problems in AR's shooting very short varmint bullets compared to the long military throats of the 5.56 where the little 45 or 50 grainers have to jump in the chamber from the brass to the rifling unsupported. Not what you want for accuracy. In my 6.5CM if I have room I will seat the front of the boat tail to the base of the neck or if shooting heavier bullets I set the OAL of the cartridge to place the bullet .040" off the lands to provide a proper head start to avoid pressure spikes. Thanks for your work.
JRB - Great work - You've got an excellent setup in that rifle / ammo. That TC Compass is a real winner... Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to ya, FC Steve
Thanks, FC!
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"Baker's half-dozen" Creedmoor - 'certainly going to remember that!
Hits home ...
If you want to play with the Hornady 95gr Vmax I used Hornady brass, CCI 400, 42.5gr Varget at 2.670" with 3240fps from my Ruger Precision Rifle. Above book for Hornady but not for Hodgdon. Absolutely no pressure signs on over 300 of the rounds with this combo shot from 102deg out side to last Sunday at 45dg.
I know a lot of scope manufacturers don't recommend using loc tite on their rings but every time I've put on a scope and torqued them to spec they've came loose one time while I was on a deer hunt in another state I swore that day I'll never do it again. If it messes up the optic by using loc tite I'll send it in to get it fixed or I'll get a refund because there's nothing worse then being in the middle of nowheres spend all that money on out of state tags/licenses and your scope loses zero!!! I know I'm a late bht I'm loving this series!!!
Man im glad i subbed to your channel. Such easy going content to watch. Goos stuff man.
Thanks! Glad to have you!
I agree that neck-sized fire-formed to a gun split case method is superior to pretty much any other alternative - for own gun. Hornday moded cas is universal - so concessions had to be made which throws exactness out the window.
Bergers $73 here in Oz. Enjoy your vids cheers.
we get reamed here in Oz. They can probably get a Lithgow la102 cheaper in the US than we can get it!
Haha yeah for sure. Makes me laugh when for eg. guys are unhappy with Federal Gold being over a dollar a shot over there in America.
Excellent video Jrb, I wouldn’t change a thing. I am extremely impressed with my 6.5 Creedmore compass also. I’ve managed a couple half inch groups with the factory federal gold medal match 130 grain Berger load. For the $297 I paid it’s such a value. I will pick up a box of the 135 grain classic hunters and do some load work ups also, RL 26 may be able to squeeze out some extra velocity. Although you may be able to keep going a little bit like you said with both reloader 17 and IMR 4350. Would love to see how they perform for hunting now that we know they can shoot and that the compass likes them.
I've got a can of RL 26 in the mail. The velocity numbers on the Berger load data, and the numbers moparmadman got over on his channel are crazy.
Great job Johnny. IMR 4350 and IMR 4064 has been my go to powders for my 30 calibers. You may want to give 4064 a try.
All of the reloading books will say that 6.5cm performs best under medium-ish loads. No need to hot rod, and I have definitely seen it perform best 2500-2600fps
Yeah max fps and full cases aren't how you find a load that works with the barrels harmonics either
I was glad to see you use IMR4350 in your video. All the 4350 powders are good choices for many calibers. I prefer the Hodgdon when I can get it and Accurate isn't too bad either. They are very consistent and safe powders for many calibers meaning you can fill the case and never have a pressure problem. The Hodgdon4350 is a short cut and the IMR4350 isn't much different and the Accurate4350 is a little coarser, but they are all very close in the way they perform in case capacity and bullet speeds. The Hodgdon is easier to meter. It was not available last time I purchased powder and I had to get IMR4350, so it's been a little different but not much. I always buy 8-pound kegs, so I don't need to bother with getting powder from different lot numbers. Today one needs to buy in bulk whenever they can get it. Especially primers.
I know it's a 2 year old video... but if one is concerned about the headspace being shorter on the modified case, you can just apply a layer or two of masking tape to the base to get it to match your fire formed cases.
51:00, just FYI, I had the cratered primer pockets with my TC in 30-06, all factory loads and all hand loads from starting load on up. Upon inspection it looked like they chamfered the firing pin hole. I contacted TC and sent pics, they said it was incorrect and to send it in. Came back with a new bolt, no more cratered primers.
You almost showed your face last vid....those shot patterned nicely wow 4350 maybe up 1 gr. of powder perfection idk can't wait to watch the grindle vid!
Hornady will make modified cases off of brass that you fire form and that is highly recommended. It’s not expensive either.
I keep hearing people talk about the T/C Compass being accurate. I guess I'll have to break down and order one. The IMR4350 is looking good. I have some on the shelf I'll have to try. Great video.
Once again an outstanding video, and man what a shooter!... Looks like she loves some Bergers at 2500!.... Can't wait to see how much more velocity you'll be able to wring out of that imr 4350..... along with another suggestion the Barnes 120ttsx would be nice to see. I've seen them perform in great in both a 6.5x55, and a creed. So great shooting, great groups, excellent job using and explaining the hornady o.a.l. gauge, and keep em coming!!!!
One of the things i like about burger is if ya call em they often have data for different powders even if it kinda conservative.
Yes sir! Great bullets and well thought out loading. Thank you.
Interesting stuff, good results. Having just received and 8 lb bottle of 4350, I was smiling as those groups got smaller and smaller. Reloader 19 would've been a better choice over 17, if you had it on hand.
Just a note , on each shot I was watching the Coldwell bench rest "jumping". Maybe adding some weight or lead to the BR and a Little talc powder to the fore end to help it slide. I had to sharpen the spike feet on mine to dig into the wood table and be more stable. Also my fwd sling swivel keep hitting the BR, I took mine off to keep from affecting the BR.
John, Another great video. With m y HHSC, you know the is the Hornady head bla bla , I ONLY use mine on brass fired in my chamber, and then drill and tap them myself. Absolutely the only way to get it perfect, only issue I ran into is in my Bergara B-14 6.5 C, Is when I go to load Berger 140 VLD and want to start .015 off the lands to work up some load data, they won't fit into the mag. OAL is to long by .0800. New out of the box Hornady 143g, ELD-X are 2.809 to 2.810 for the most part, but those are .0600 off the lands in my chamber, but they shoot sub .40 groups. So probable should reload the 143g of Hornady's. Sure wanted to start at -.o15 and work up some load data. Guess I could mill out a dummy mag. and load one at a time, but when hunting???? you know the issue there.
Very good reloading info👍👍
Agreed it looks like you might have a nice nose between 42 and 42.5 with the IMR 4350. With a bit more case capacity I found a nice node of 43.3 with AMAX 147s out of a 260 Rem with H4350
Wonder why 4 people gave a thumbs down.must not be reloaders. I prefer to make my own modified cases so the case has the same headspace. Wish i had collets on my lathe.
I know these Berger shoot great. Worth the money in this case. With rl-26 You can get this up to almost 3k fps. Your barrel length might hurt you a little there though.
I ordered some RL26 today so I'll be testing soon. It will be interesting to compare my results to yours on the barrel length comparison.
I use RL26 with the 147gr ELD-M bullet. My accuracy node with a 24" bbl and Lapua 6.5 CM brass is 47.4gr for 2850 fps.
To eliminate (or add) confusion, we could call these calibers 65 G&C
Might touch the Hornaday modified case lightly with a neck sizing die to bring the neck tension up. May hold the bullet more firmly when measuring (also may loose less of them to the lands in turn). Great material as always.
Some people talk rubbish about the modified case. It really doesn’t matter if it is 2 thou different to FF. The base to ogive or oal will be exactly the same as in precisely equal to. How could it not be?
As for picking a start charge the only safe way without data is to take the specified energy and density figures and look for a comparable few alternatives which are close to it and pick an average of these. It’ll be close enough to be safe.
Also, 3 thou id the maximum freed headspace for safety to prevent a waist forming at the head with repeated use. Better to aim for 1 thou or zero clearance. They’ll load fine.
For the money spent on the combo, I see similar results on my T/C 6.5CR. Spending more money is not the answer for accuracy in this instance. Great rifle! Bummer about shooting through $45-50 box of bullets ;-)
Like you said, 300 dollar rifle and scope combo. Wow!! Plastic stamped out stock spitting out all day. I would say if anyone wants an accurate rifle on a budget the TC Compass would be the one. also, Good evaluation on the Hornady Over All bullet seating tool. we have to take into consideration that all these tools and rifle chambers have minor infractions and keep that in mind. Btw, Not bad Grouping for 90 thousands of free bore. Dave.
If you read the instructions with the hornady OAL gauge they recommend you send them your fired brass and they will make you your own tapped brass for 7 dollars.
So basically the hornady head space cage is best if you used when reloading once fired brass as the fired brass shoulder should almost always be touching on the fired brass. Which is what you measure the distance from the shoulder to the lands and not from the bolt face to the lands.
If you have a neck sizing die you could use it to put a touch more tension on that modified case for measuring the lands!
Looking forward to the live feed
Color the bullet with a sharpie on the split case test and see where the case pushed up on the sharpie then you maintain the measurements even with the bullet sticking the hornady oal gauge is well worth it though
Should have used your Hornady gauge to measure at the ojive. The bullet tips are inconsistent.
Bakers half dozen Creedmoor is actually hilarious
That's funny how you mentioned that your scope rings came loose. I bought the ought 6 version and had the same exact issue. Unfortunately I did not notice until I was already home. Makes sense why my groups were so terrible towards the end :-(
you are the best man ! " switzerland " .
Would love to see a comparison between h4350 and imr4350. Side by side same cartridge. What's the difference in speed pressure and accuracy
H4350 ends up being the better powder, If your not staying in the same place, for one reason. IMR 4350 is sensitive to altitudes.
I found this out off my bench @700', then going to 5,000 feet shooting prairie dogs. My groups at 700' elevation were touching, at 5,000' they were open and 1". This made it a little harder with the wind, to compensate, with shots past 100 yards. I had 100 rounds worked up with H4350, and the impact and group size was still consistent with what I had gotten of my bench at 700' elevation. Both are accurate powders, but my SD was better with IMR. This was my experience, I hope it helps. Back home I shoot IMR, out west I shoot Hodgdon.
I was surprised at the difference between IMR4350 and H4350. Hands down H4350 wins for me. With the 135 Classic Hunter it’s by far my best load. Beats 143 ELD-X and 130 Gamechangers.
someone must have been playing the Johnny reloading drinking game (Take a shot every time you hear "blow your face off") and acidendially thumbs down
Scope cam was a fun twist, though awful quality. Ted’s Holdover uses it to great affect because you can slow down the footage enough to see the flight path. I’m not sure that would be easily duplicated with the velocities you work with.
Great vid! Ur reloading process is very similar to mine. I used rl 17 last year with very similar results, in particular the heat sensitivity. I worked up rl 16 this year with extremly good results. SD of all charges < 10 and i suspect do to the extreme temp stability. Hope u test it with rl 16. Velocities comparable to rl 17. My grouping is great as well, 6 of the 8 different charges were sub moa at 100 yd. Ended at 42.6 gr with lapua brass and same bullets u have here.
@JRB - Check out Peterson fat neck 6.5cm brass! Excellent brass with necks that must be turned to size. Pretty neat product!
Looks pretty cool. Without a custom neck chamber I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. Still neat, though.
Could you maybe try Varget too?
Instead of spliting a case neck just take a pair of plyers and tweak neck i tiny bit out round with a fired case out of that weapon until it lightly grips the bullet ! much better way than a split case !
thanks heaps mate.
6:39 using the cartridge overall length gauge.
Just compare the With a headspace gauge from the hornady case to the fired case and adjust the hornady measurement with the delta
Dude, I freaking love your videos. I reload but I feel like I'm going to be a better loader now with the tools I already use like the hornady oal length gauge. Great videos. Just subscribed.
i am running 44.0 grains of r17 and a 130 norma golden target bullet and lapua brass, with a 24 inch barrel. my magnetospeed for 5 rounds was 2929 with a ES of 4. what i did not like about the R17 is it is not temp stable. I switched to R16 and bumped the charge up to 44.6. i got the 2932 and 3 ES for 5 shots. I am seeing flat primers, but no ejector marks.
I would be real interested in seeing the performance of bergers 135 in gel.
Me too! Two more boxes are in the mail! Lots more testing to come.
They are very impressive in gelatin. My experience.
@Reel-Lentless The Accubond is the king in the RUM and Magnum rifle realm , The 210 Nosler with Retumbo is legendary .
The group size doesn’t seem to correlate very well with the SD. That happens with me too. Makes one wonder about the SD.
The next Creedmoor request, 120 TTSX. I got to the range with my AR, I only had 13 to shoot and was getting ready for a weekend hunt. Once sighted I put 2 in the same hole and decided to leave the rest for the hunt. I’d love to see what you can do with them.
That gun seems very nice
Great shooting! Great bullet! Awesome how well this gun shoots for the money!
I like to anneal my cases AFTER I load them! If I blow my face off, I'm ready to say "it's nobodies fault but my own".
Why did I laugh so hard at this?
Johnny where does H 4350 fall in with the 6.5 Creedmoor would like to see a video use H 4350 and berger 135 gr. Thanks love the video's
8:33 When measuring this, why use OAL and not the CBTO measurement?
you need to use CBTO...
Doesn’t make a ton of difference. Maybe +- .005
I know you are tickled with the accuracy, but you should look at the terminal performance before you make this your hunting load just yet. But, it sure is looking good! Congrats on the warm fuzzies your new rifle is giving you; it's nice to feel good about spending some money and not a LOT of money in this case.
Moparmadman reported good performance on deer, so that's a good start. I will be gel testing them as well.
Love the videos, keep up the great work! You’ve got a fan that’s cheering on each great group. Always been curious, what pace do you shoot your groups at, both time between shots and time between groups?
cool, 6.5 creed, 6.5 is my new fav cal
Damn impressive
Do you hold/adjust for wind when you're doing these? If not, I'd say 41 grains of either powder are bang on.
No, I never hold off for wind. I usually try to wait it out.
What about the lee factory crimp die use to hold the bullet . Do you use one ??
Love the shooting in the snow so cool I love in Texas so that never happens
I love it too. Something magical about being out in the snow!
Sir you are doing a great job
Reloder 26 is sounding very good in the forums but still hard to find. Rl26 also appears to burn hotter but lower pressures with higher velocities and very consistent burn.
I just ordered some so I'm looking forward to trying it myself!
This is going to sound silly, but what are you using to make your targets? I know about the dots but what paper and sizes of the grids.
I've heard the red stuff works great. Seriously.
I don't know why but this caliber has never done much for me. Any of the 6.5 calibers other than the old 264 win mag that'd about it and everything that I have seen on it just doesn't do much as far as I am concerned but great video and can't wait for more from ya Johnny
Shane Rhodes low recoil, great ballistics and great performance on game. 6.5's of all kinds are pretty awesome for North America
Yea I know I just can't seem to get into the 6.5 caliber really. Guess I'm just to old school. I'm a 30 Cal guy lol but to each their own
Could you perhaps tell me the difference in a regular set of dies and the Redding competition die? Are they worth the extra money? 6.5 creedmoor.
JRB you need to pick up one of those ColeTac suppressor wraps. They seem to get decent reviews keeping the heat in. Would help with your mirage may be.
I have one! I just can't hang the suppressor on the can when I'm using it, so I only use it when I'm using my Caldwell chronograph.
Well, shows how much I have paid attention to your videos over these last few years lmao. I am actually surprised it doesn't work with the Magnetospeed, that's interesting to know!
Would like to see some work with RL26 next time
Sorry man I tried 2 vids it just didn’t move along with any fluidity had to turn them both off
If you go small primer brass for 6.5CM is magnum primers required?
I'm noticing a scratch on my brass at the shoulder and saw it also at 51:18 in the video. Is this normal with the Compass?
Yes, and I see it in my Tikka as well. The scratch gets made during extraction as the case gets tilted and drags before it clears the ejection port. Eject some empty brass slowly and watch it as it comes out, see if you agree. I don't think it's anything to worry about.
Fitting pin hole too big causing crater on primer
Super duper & terrific job. I'm really getting lots info. I've got this compass too. I've got 123 sgk 120amax, sow fresh H143, H147. I like to see the accuracy fr those 143,147 loads from compass. & About 200 yd gel test on the B135, H143,147. I may need to donate to ur channel. Saving me a ton of research for correct loads for Compass. Seems not to like H129sst or H129sp factory ammo? Thanks a bunch brother. Geeat job. I'm buying 8 lb of RL26 in few weeks if available.
I've got some RL26 on the way! Can't wait to try it out. The velocities that moparmadman saw on his channel were excellent!
Thanks I'll be watching. What did ya get the rl26 for $ maybe donated. Heck I'd donated a bit for the research info. But P.O. probably wanted a haz mate fee lol. Thanks again Johnny
Johnny, do you have to thread the case or could you just shove a cleaning rod down the bore to eject the case?
Just got 2 boxes of those in the mail today! 20" Tikka T3x CTR 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm running a Dead Air Sandman Ti as well. My MagnetoSpeed V3 will be here next week I plan on trying Varget, IMR4350, and a few others. Looking for a tight 2600-2650fps group. Also have you played with how far from the muzzle you set the chrono? And do you ever go and shoot loads without the chrono to see if maybe one shoots a little tighter?
Did you get your drill and tap yet? Tried making my own for .243 and 7.62x54R and I'll tell you- it's not as easy as it seems. Couldn't keep the case from spinning while trying to tap it out.
I'm in Natchez, MS. Natchez is pronounced like matches but with an "N".
Similar to snatchez........
can you reload some berger VLD for the T/C Compass?
Gotta wonder what 2000MR would do.
Great round for deer and all the smaller game, I really enjoy mine.
However it is too small for elk, can it kill one? YES but so can a .270.
It comes down to the bullet weight, you just dont have enough weight to be a good elk cartridge.
150gr is the minimum in my experience. 180gr is good, but +200 is better.
Elk are just tough and you never really get that perfect shot because there a wild animal moving.
I hunt with Barnes TSX, I find they are the most accurate best flight bullet on the market.
RL-17 should be the same powder as Norma URP.
is there any data on accuracy of chronograph? in other words is virtually all the velocity deviation in the bullet itself.
There is plenty of discussion out there about the accuracy and precision of consumer chronographs! They are not perfect, but good enough for what we're doing.