EPISODE 100 - Falling Down the Gender Rabbit Hole: A Tale of Two Therapists
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Chapters:
00:00 Start of video
03:48 Sasha tells her story
14:50 Stella tells her story
46:46 The early days of the podcast
59:10 What's next for the show
Summary:
Sasha & Stella take a walk down “memory lane,” recalling the evolution of events and circumstances that lead them each towards a deeper concentration on gender identity exploration in their work. With very different stories to tell, they each share their observations of society at large and describe their individual experiences within the culture of their communities and in their workspaces. They explain what intrigued them and led them to explore deeper questions about identity development, dive into the research behind gender affirmative care and gender reassignment surgery, gender stereotypes, and basic human development in general.
They also reflect on how they began working with families and individuals impacted by gender. Their stories both lead up to how their work around gender identity development connected them and ultimately inspired the creation of this show and its rapidly-growing listener base. In its first two years, their collaboration podcast, Gender: A Wider Lens, has curated over 100 hours of in-depth interviews, personal stories, and psychological exploration. Together, Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad probe the gender landscape within contemporary culture, considering the implications of prioritizing personal identity over other aspects of the self.
The show has endured some pretty pivotal shifts in the cultural and political climate involving gender dysphoria and its treatments in practice on a global scale. In this episode, Sasha & Stella share their vision for the future of the show as well as the opportunities they anticipate which might broaden the scope of resources available to families and gender dysphoric individuals: resources that go beyond the affirmative approach. Together, the hosts of the popular podcast celebrate the pathways that lead them to each other, the development of the show, and the trajectory ahead for their continued exploration of gender from a wider lens.
Reviews:
rephonic.com/podcasts/gender-...
GDSN:
genderdysphoriasupportnetwork...
Stella’s Film: Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk:
www.stellaomalley.com/trans-ki...
Support the Show:
linktr.ee/widerlenspod
For more about our sponsors, visit:
ReIME- rethinkime.org/
Genspect - genspect.org/
Extended Notes
● Sasha led her school’s first Gay-Straight Alliance (GSA) when she witnessed confusion about identity in the kids she worked with.
● Sasha was compelled to make a difference but was overwhelmed by the response she received.
● As a child, Stella was uncomfortable being a girl and knew she would be better as a boy. She was filled with shame and embarrassment.
● When Stella encountered a trans person she presumed their experience was like hers but they had transitioned.
● In Ireland, Stella has released three best-selling books, Cotton Wool Kids, Bully-proof Kids, and Fragile.
● In 2018, Stella’s husband encouraged her to take part in the movie Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk.
● Sasha reached out to Lisa Marchiano after hearing her being interviewed on Feminist Current.
● When Stella and Sasha first began there was no support and shortly after they realized they were lonely pioneers.
● When all of her speaking engagements were canceled during COVID-19, Stella created the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.
● This podcast was an opportunity to disseminate important gender information to the masses instead of a few.
● The Gender: A Wider Lens podcast has 830,000 downloads.
● Stella and Sasha share some listener reviews.
● Sasha shares the next steps for the podcast, CZcams, and a new community.
● Brilliant volunteers have been integral to the current and future success of the podcast.
● Listener support for this podcast makes a difference to all interested in the gender subjects covered on this show.
You’ve both been critical to my feeling like a capable, semi-confident parent to a gender-questioning teen. You’ll never know how many families you’ve touched! 🙏💕
That's amazing to hear! Thanks so much for saying so :)
I don’t know why but I love seeing the people who are talking. So I’m super excited about this! ❤🎉
Agree!!
I like to see random personal stuff in the background, like dogs or cats or spouses or kids.
God bless you both. You (and Lisa, Meghan, and the two Aarons of the Transparency podcast) have done a tremendous service to the world. Please keep battling until the war is won.
We feel very energized to keep going. Thanks for your support!
I remember the 90s Anorexia problems.. it's like the entire psychological sector has ignored the phenomenon of teenage girl group hysteria. Those of us with daughters have seen this for decades.
Did they never read The Crucible?
I would like to see a discussion on the extent to which group hysteria is a relevant concept. It's not just female though - there are other strands, like autogynephilia. There's also the hysteria in the activists' response to criticism: this is so disturbing, the demonisation and hate (especially towards women). But I suppose these questions about wider psychological and social phenomena go beyond the scope of this project.
I also found myself wondering about the politics of the project, such as where they stand on self-id, women's privacy, lesbian rights, 'conversion therapy' (I suppose they are against forced affirmation standards, but how do they avoid getting thrown out of their professional bodies...?).
I was the one who believed in having alive son is better than having dead daughter! I don’t recall how I came across you two! You opened my eyes n I am glad I could use your podcasts to open my hubby’s eyes too! We are still in the middle of it all! Can’t thank you enough! Here is my virtual hug to both of you! 🤗
Stella is living proof that a person can grow out of such a phase in a young person's life, if they are given the chance to work through it.
@@twinkytwink8 ROGD doesn't fit at all with what she has explained. Even in just this one episode you can see she had it from a very early age.
I wish I had a million to donate!! Your work is invaluable💕 I will help as much as possible though. It's so important that your evidence based compassionate voices get more exposure.
I started listening mid 2021. One of the most important benefits I have gotten is backup for my instints on handling my daughter's ROGD and tips on how to manifest my instincts positively.... to respond compassionately, with love and understanding and support for her obvious distress... and PATIENCE...but also without capitulation to confirming a path leading to harm. I have my own issues and self doubt is a big one. I was having a major existential crisis. Miraculously I found your podcast through Twitter. You both have been so incredibly value to my own mental health and given me the actual support I needed to do what I felt was right for my daughter. Voices of sanity in an insane world!!
The therapy resources are limited in my area... and I was absolutely terrified of taking her anywhere when frankly she was the MOST distressed bc she was also so so so very vulnerable... and I couldn't trust that professionals would not affirm. I was also terrified of losing her legally as I had seen in some cases. So I would listen and learn. You were both with me winter of 2021 everyday when I shoveled snow actually 😁
I'm a Catholic, non practicing, but I've heard (often) how we're all called to give our time, talent, and treasure as we can, authentically, for our own spiritual growth and to support others in their journey through life. Non religiously doing the same with aim and purpose shapes us and positively affects our satisfaction in life and personal growth.
I hope that your work has given you both as much as you have given to so many of us who's lives you have touched very deeply. Thank you for "answering the call" and putting all the time, your incredible talents, and your resources into helping where you absolutely were very needed. 👏👏👏👏👏
PS this wave of social contagion really shows how much kids were suffering. It's a feature of teenage/YA years, but it seems to be magnified and compounded by them being so detached from *real* life. Social media is like a harmful addictive isolating drug i think. Even without this particular manifestation of their distress - something has happened societally that is making kids increasingly more mentally vulnerable and distressed and fragile. There's a mental health crisis in general that won't resolve any time soon I'm afraid 😕
We are so happy we were able to bring you solace during such a tumultuous time. Our hearts are with you and all the families going through this.
I found it so interesting to hear you talk about your personal journeys into the world of transgenderism & ideology. Stella's documentary was one of the first programs I watched to listen to transitioners, and her personal experiences woven in while investigating. Great to hear how you found each other and what evolved from that. I love it when therapists share their own journeys. Obviously you fire off each other and get inspiration from each other too. May your sparks, compassion and expertise keep radiating out to all who are going through devastating life challenges. Looking forward to the 'big' ones still to come. 🙏💞
Oh, thanks so much! This is really meaningful to us.
08:40 Sasha, you saved that girl's life. You are a hero. Thank you.
Two lovely adult human females!
factually true and subjectively nice to hear :)
Great to have ye back and in the flesh too. 😀
Best of luck with this season.
thank you!
Excellent + congratulations, I have listened to all the episodes as I prefer to listen when I walk. I like your approach which is refreshing, informative and very useful.
That's great! Thanks for the encouragement
It is so exciting to hear your future plans and see the podcast on video! You really, really, had a profound impact on my family’s life for the better over the past two years. I am so excited to hear that you’re thinking about providing resources for teens (so needed!) and I would love to have resources to send to doctors. I urge everyone watching to please go join their Patreon! And a shout out to both of your personal platforms, also a wealth of additional and direct support for parents. The world is a much better and more calm place with you two in it. Thank you for helping us!
Thank you for your lovely comment! Glad you're here!
Goodness me, haven’t u earned your stripes!! I’m so pleased to see u both and hear your voices again 😊 it’s amazing that you’ve got to 100 🎉❤So great to hear all of your fantastic plans. You’ve been such a comfort to me over the last 2 years, as well as being my teachers!! Can’t wait to hear (and see!) what’s coming ❤❤ Hannah
Thank you so much!
I've only caught on since the start of 2022 but you two are doing such an important job, addressing the issue with the primary tenet of empathy running all the way through the pod. I really hope you achieve the success and acclaim you so richly deserve, when the stigma of this topic eventually drains away. Cheers, you gorgeous people
Thanks so much!
You've shed a lot of light on this emerging medical scandal. Hands down the best series on the topic. Thanks for your hard work!
I just heard about you guys from a parent testimony on Triggernometry, and while I'm not a parent myself, nor do I personally any trans or detrans people, Stella's backstory (feeling like a boy in a woman's body until some acceptance and confidence with the process of maturing came to me) felt really relatable to my own story.
Hi! Welcome and we are glad you found us.
Got here through that show, too. ❤️
Congrats on 100!!
I would like to stand alongside what the (nice) reviewer said. I have learned so much about the human experience itself, quite frankly, from this podcast. And I particularly like listening to Sasha. I sought out therapy myself in 2021 to deal with some long standing 'problems' - it was a total let down from what I was hoping for... I was spoiled after listening to Sasha. I have been genuinely touched by your existence as a fellow human being. You're rarer than I wish you were.
This is such a touching comment (Sasha here). I'm really humbled and honored to her how much these conversations have impacted you. Much love! xo
I probably would have been much more depressed and less hopeful in the last 2 years without your sane, friendly, rational, compassionate, humorous, insightful voices. I cannot thank you enough as.a parent of a teenage girl who is confused about what it means to be “female” in this world and thinks she was born in the wrong body. And you both look great on camera!
That's lovely to hear, thank you! Good luck
It's wild finally getting to attach faces to the voices! Love your podcast... what you are doing is so significant and appreciated ❤
One of the primary problems is that the same people are watching all these videos. Reaching a broader audience is difficult.
So true! That's why we really appreciate when people share our videos and we are also working harder this year to get the message out to a broader audience. We hope you'll stay tuned for more!
Great news! A good move from pod over to here on youtube.
It is greatly needed and even more will be able to get hold of your valuable info. Can't think of a better place to get REAL on this subject than here with you 2.
Facts, respect and proper research instead of personal activist agendas and nonsense.
Thanks for everything 🙏❣️
Much appreciated!
Great news that you two are turning up the notch a bit as far as getting your message out. I'm so thankful for your perspectives on this issue and it's so beneficial that you'll reach more people by expanding your reach.
Congratulations for the 100th milestone! Yes, every podcast and video you have done is a milestone of its own. It is so refreshing to watch such fun, smart and articulate and deep and... and... and... just lovely human beings in action. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and insights.
Thank you so much!
I am super excited to hear about the developing community features!
It's been really hard to find a place to connect with like-minded individuals, and I for one can't wait!
I really do think that what you and your team are doing is incredibly important, and I truly believe that it's your honesty, and genuine compassion for those of us who are impacted by all this gender stuff that resonates in such a meaningful way. You guys are a godsend! 🥰
In addition to monetary support, please let us know if there are other ways to contribute, I can't help but feel like there's got to be more that can be done.
Thank you for your comment! While waiting for our developing community features you can find Sasha on SubscribeStar (she runs a parent community there) and Stella on Substack where she also offers parent support and information. Non-monetary ways to support to us include sharing this content and engaging with us on social media to help out that good ole' algorithm! Thanks so much for your support!
Oh, for sure! I'll be happy to look into Stella's Substack, and Sasha's SubscribeStar community, and in the meantime, I'll definitely keep sharing!
😉👍
Fan-bloody-tastic! Love the ideas to expand the podcast. I've been listening since 2020 and support your podcast through patreon as you have been a huge source of comfort and education to me as a mum of a ROGD child. You are both legends xx
Great to hear!
Very happy to see you on video!
Glad to hear that!
Female heroines right here 🤗. Oh I'm so pumped we get to see you both. Thank you so much for your work ❤️
Congratulations Stella and Sasha! I found your pod casts acccidentally right at the start and have been an ardent listener ever since. I could not believe my luck to have found such reasonable, thoughtful, knowlegeable , competent and positive clinicians in this maze of trans. As a (now) retired child protection Social Worker in Ireland with a longstanding interest in this area I am glad to be able to spread the word about " the wider lens" and genspect to my former colleagues. I have learned so much from you and look very much forward to learning more ! What I love and appreciate most in your work is that you put the family in the centre of this and support the parents! Here is to the next 100 episods.
Gorgeous! Thank you so much. We're glad you're here!
You hit the head of the nail. Clips for TikTok/twitter/IG. I've already started clipping your videos myself
Great to see you! Have loved the podcast it has taught me so much and sparked many further follow up searches to find out more. Such a great resource for me in my work with children and young people. Looking forward to new conversations👏👏👏
Yay, thank you!
It’s so great to have you both back! Im super excited for all the changes coming up. I have an idea for an episode: parents who are on opposite sides of the gender narrative. Ie, one parent is completely bought into the affirmative approach while the other is just not. I’m in this situation and we have a young son (8 yo) who is caught in the middle and we can’t communicate effectively with each other, let alone him.
Hi Regina! We are so glad you're enjoying the show - this is a big topic. We began to discuss it in "when parents disagree" here: gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/47-when-parents-disagree
Maybe this can get you started and we'll certainly revisit this in the future!
I have loved listening to the podcast. You ladies may have saved my sanity. I'm now very excited to watch. Thank you for everything!!
Awesome! Stay sane with us :)
Love the visual!
Thank you for bringing such intelligent and compassionate voices to this very important topic. Keep it up!
We will and thank YOU
Glad you started video. Fun to see your beautiful faces. Your audio podcasts have been so informative but this really gives us so much more! Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much!
I'm still listening on Spotify - it would be great if you went video over there as well! Many thanks for all your hard work!
This was fascinating, thank you for sharing how you got here. I’m jumping back in and out of your podcasts and this channel and love seeing your faces and those of your guests 😊
Aww! Thank you
OMG! So happy to see you on camera! I love to see your beautiful smiling faces!
😊 thank you
Love the series been following since the first one. Have you guy thought about a second series on Mental health in general I think there’s similar parallels between societal environmental drivers, big pharma over reach etc. There seems be a big trend on drug pushing, pathologising normal feelings and turning them into disorders or expanding disorders to include very everyday symptoms. Eg the rise or autism/adhd/DID/BPD and how these are being diagnosed in kids, social contagion elements, social media diagnoses, mental health as identity in this post religious west. I think it has parallels to trans ideology. There seems to be a big move away from building resilience and overcoming to remunerating, de stigmatising in order to medicate and it’s starting in the young.
Your comment is very prescient.... especially the concept of "pathologizing normal." Stay tuned for more on this in future episodes!
Very well done you Sasha. What a Role Model.
Oh Sasha, we need to get you to write up some case studies for the psychological literature. For some therapists, that's the only thing they will pay attention to.
(Sasha here) - yes I would like to as soon as I get a little brain-space :)
CZcams seems to have stopped showing me your vids and notifications. Dispite still being subscribed and notifications on.
That's odd. We'll look to see if that's happening from our end.
I have watched maybe all your episodes and frequently post links to your podcast when discussing the topic online, because I want people to understand the psychological intricacies rather than thinking "gender" and "trans" are simply a civil rights issue. I will make a donation to support the show. Where is the link for donations?
Thank you so much! You can visit widerlenspod.com to find links to our PayPal for donations, or you can join our Listener Community. Thanks very much!
This is the first Genspect podcast I've heard and it's difficult for me to get a clear idea of where they stand on issues such as puberty blockers for preteens and and surgical interventions for teens which for me are red lines. Young adults too. I personally believe that surgical interventions are a disastrous direction for anyone.
This is 100th episode, please start with 1st. They are god send for parents like me!
We hope you listened to Episodes 101 and 102!
I have sent 3 or 4 people to you. The panic in a parents voice when they don't know how to help their kid.
Love seeing your beautiful faces ❤
Social Contagion.
I'm 25 an I would love a course like the 19 year old ur speaking about at the end there
comment for the algorithm
Now we get to see your beautful faces!
Time for a Donate button on your CZcamss.
Is it just me or is it completely incoherent to talk about 99% of "true" trans ppl and say ROGD isn't real. What is their explanation for the non-true trans ppl and the huge uptick in numbers of ppl saying they are trans in all kinds of new ways?