EPISODE 104: No Time to Think with Hannah Barnes: The Downfall of GIDS at the Tavistock
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- čas přidán 2. 03. 2023
- Title: 104 - No Time to Think with Hannah Barnes: The Downfall of GIDS at the Tavistock
Hannah Barnes is Investigations Producer at the BBC’s flagship television news and current affairs program, Newsnight. She has spent the last 15 years at the BBC, specializing in investigative and analytical journalism for both television and radio. Hannah led Newsnight’s coverage of the care available to young people experiencing gender-related distress at the UK’s National Health Service’s (NHS) only youth gender clinic in England and Wales, the Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS) at the Tavistock in London.
In this episode, Sasha and Stella speak with Hannah about how, although she continued to report and expose questions, nothing changed and she eventually felt compelled to write a book; as she says herself “I knew too much.” In this probing discussion, issues such as puberty blockers, overwhelming caseloads, and the impact of lobby groups, such as Mermaids, are highlighted and explored.
Hannah’s work at Newsnight ultimately helped precipitate an extensive review by the NHS and unearthed evidence that was later used in several sets of legal proceedings. Newsnight’s reporting also led directly to an inspection by England’s healthcare regulator, the Care Quality Commission, which branded the services provided by the GIDS clinic “Inadequate.” The service is scheduled to close in spring 2023 following a series of critical reports.
Hannah’s new book, Time To Think: The Inside Story of the Collapse of the Tavistock’s Gender Service for Children, is a meticulously researched account of what went wrong at the Tavistock Clinic, which made headlines around the world on publication. In writing the book, Hannah studied thousands of pages of documents, including internal emails and unpublished reports, and well over a hundred hours of personal testimony from GIDS clinicians, former service users, and senior Tavistock figures, to write a disturbing and gripping parable of our times.
Links:
Amazon:www.amazon.com/Time-Think-Col...
Swift Press:swiftpress.com/book/time-to-t...
Newsnight coverage of GIDS at the Tavistock:www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/b...
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Episode 27 - Behind the Curtain: Psychotherapy for Gender Dysphoria with Sue and Marcus Evans • EPISODE 27 - Behind th...
Episode 31 - Silencing Thought: A Conversation with Heather Brunskell-Evans
• EPISODE 31 - Silencing...
Episode 64 - Pioneers Series: Psychotherapy Pre- and Post-Transition with Az Hakeem • EPISODE 64 - Pioneers ...
Episode 91 - Uncovering the GIDS Disaster: Dr. Dave Bell
• EPISODE 91 - Uncoverin...
Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or join our listener community.
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
rethinkime.org/
genspect.org/
Sounds like they ran the service as if it were a load of therapists in private practice renting rooms at the Tavi, where on Earth was the oversight, the checks and balance, the quality audit? These are all essential functions of managing a counselling service!
We run into this as well, however, in Ohio, it seems like the only path is transition. I met one good therapist at the Cleveland Clinic, yet they do all the surgeries often as young as age 18 and even younger with parental consent in Ohio. They go by WPATH guidelines which offer no evidence that these interventions are safe, and use surveys to try and make parents believe they are "life saving" - saving their child from certain suicide of parents do not go along or dare to question them. This is coercion.
Having managed large counselling teams in universities over many years one of the central aims is consistency across the team, ensuring that as far as possible it shouldn’t matter who the client sees they should get a similar experience, it’s completely negligent for Polly Carmichael and others to have failed to develop service standards and consistently
Very good point. It’s also profoundly shocking that they saw no need to collect data on outcomes or follow up , especially given the paucity of evidence about the intervention :-0
@@jamiejones8508 Yes, if I hadn’t been able to provide outcome data for my services my funding would have been stopped! You have to ask where the NHS governance systems were, who was overseeing the contract between NHS England and GIDS? What audit mechanisms were in place and why were they not enforced?
Agreed. A care/treatment standard and data collection should be the foundation that any clinical care is built off of. The absence of that alone should raise alarms. How can any quality care come out of an inherently negligent framework?
@@jamiejones8508 One of the saddest things about the entire way we treat trans issues is that it has historically affected such a small part of the population that there was very little data to go on, and the experts in the field were really the only ones who knew anything. Fast forward to the 2010s, and suddenly all these activists are pressuring these doctors and clinicians who really have no real experience in this field. They see angry people who want something, and very little data to support it (or oppose it), so instead of doing what's right and refusing to experiment on children, they gave in because who really cared what was going to happen? it was such a small population--until it wasn't such a small population anymore.
We see this in the US all the time. Patients, encouraged by pharmaceutical-company advertising, asking their doctors to prescribe certain drugs. The doctors comply. Why? Because we're all seen as consumers rather than patients.
Have just placed my order for the book. Evidence based and evidence informed practice is the norm in modern clinical practice. It is clear that in the tratment of young people with gendee dysphoria/confusion this has not been the case. Brava Hannah - at last, a much needed investigation into the practice and ethics behind GIDS thanks 👏👏👏
WHY was GIDS being overwhelmed ? THAT for me it the elephant in the room.
GIDS appears to be a symptom of an epidemic, the cause of which isn't being discussed.
I am so thankful this information is finally coming out, and in a caring manner. It's so contentious in the United States. People are absolutely demonized if they question what is pushed by Trans Ideology and the militant far left. The latter will move on to their next cause of the day and leave disaster in their wake. The politicization has left no room for questions and caution. You're doing good work.
Agree with you but please stop blaming "the left." Our progressive feminist movement was co-opted by Big Money and completely manipulated by the backlash against the advancements made in equality for women.
@Singingway Excuse me, but this maddness all began in the USA with radically Left policies begun by Obama. The Biden Administration is continuing to rabidly push Transgender Affirmation Care, Hormone Blockers, and Rapid Transitioning. Every Democrat Governor is pushing this agenda by passing laws in their states and schools, along with hormon blockers and surgeries on underage children. Every higher up Democrat Politician, including Vice President Harris, is aggressively pushing the militant LBGTQ Transgendering position. That is the Left, and it is to blame!
You probably voted to put this obviously radically Left Progressive Democrat Administration into power. Reguardless of all the madness that has ensued, you will probably vote Democrat again! So, stop dodging your own responsibility in this tragic disaster against innocent children.
@@singingway I think the left is more identified with the trans movement in the US which, through the Democratic Party, has heavily invested politically and financially in affirmative care. In the UK, some of the most vocal critics are left wing feminists.
It's crazy that anyone would think minors with multiple mental health and social issues could give informed consent. Why not treat all their co-morbidities and assist them in changing school if bullying or peer pressure are an issue? How can anyone know if their gender dysphoria is permanent if the other issues are not addressed and treated for a year or more?
Wonderful interview. As a psychotherapist that's been looking deeper into how 'gender medicine' is actually practiced, I'm continually struck by a sense that in too many places, it's essentially the Wild West.
At every step of the process, from psychotherapy, to the medications, and the surgeries, it's all so highly variable in quality, in duration, in the practices/protocols implemented depending on which practitioner the child happens to connect with and the particular constraints of the treatment setting.
I have first hand experience of seeing how care can drastically vary depending on socioeconomic factors, geographic location, caseload sizes, resources, training, etc. It should come as a surprise to no one that these factors, which affect all of the mental health care industry, are similarly present in 'gender medicine'. And as such, we professionals should be able to talk openly about how this care falls short of people's needs and where we can seek to improve.
Your podcast continues to give me hope that there are therapists our there that are trying to do the difficult work of sifting through the noise to get closer to a more comprehensive understanding of the needs and complexities of this population.
We couldn't agree more about the need to speak honestly about these kinds of discrepancies. That's really nice to hear about our podcast - thank you for your comment! If you're interested, we'd love to invite you to join GETA, the Gender Exploratory Therapy Association!
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Sadly, this is also the case with medicine and specifically with "medicine" as it has been applied to mental health. Have you ever read about the person who invented lobotomies? How he "practiced" performing them? And there's plenty of really atrocious stuff that went down at insane asylums all over the world, lots of enterprising doctors who were more than happy to experiment on "lost causes" to inflate their own egos and gain accomplishments in the medical field, whether the therapies they developed actually worked or not.
Surgeons perform surgery. Their primary concern is whether a given surgery is possible or not and how likely the patient is to survive without serious side effects related specifically to the surgery. They generally aren't in the business of choosing whether to perform surgery based on the patient's needs. They're like mechanics--they tell you what can be done to your car, but they shouldn't be deciding whether to work on your car in the first place.
The "pause button" idea is an extremely mechanistic view of the body. The big advancement in the field of health HAD been a more holistic approach, treating the whole person, not just the part, or one aspect. Now we are back to treating the body like a machine whose critical growth window can be turned off and back on like a mechanical device.
The "pause button' idea is a blatant lie, and an implausible one, at that.
There is NO (useful) DRUG that is "totally harmless and reversable", like people often claim about 'puberty-blockers'.
Even if we make the overly-charitable assumption that this isn't a DELIBERATE lie, but just a "dumbed-down" statement, when what they REALLY meant was "puberty-blockers only do a MINIMAL amount of irreversable harm, that is outweighed by the benefits", even this revised version is 100% false.
The most commonly.used 'puberty-blocker' is 'Lupron'; Used off-purpose for its nullifying effects on hormones, it was ORIGINALLY developed to treat certain kinds of cancer (in adults), in the 80s.
Even in THAT application, patients quickly learmed that Lupron had such severe, irreversable side-effects (on full-grown adults, suffering life-threatening cancer) that people lobbied to have the drug banned.
In another (third) application, Lupron is also used to deliberately chemically-sterilize sex offenders- By giving 250lb adults THE SAME DOSE we give to an 80lb 10yo, IN PERFECT PHYSICAL HEALTH, justified by exactly ZERO empirical evidence of any medical issue, at all.
The use of drugs like Lupron (WELL-DOCUMENTED to have high rates of severe side-effects in adults, but essentially experimental, on children) on 100% physically healthy kids, with no capacity for meaningful consent, and with ZERO evidence-based justification, is about as much of a blatant, undeniable violation of the Hippocratic Oath/"first do no harm", as you could find.
[Trans activsts often try to compare the use of drugs like Lupron on so-called """trans kids""" (a term that shouldn't exist; NOBODY can tell what the future, adult identity of a 10yo child will be), to their use in treating "precocious puberty"- Kids who start puberty at a young age.
But like EVERY SINGLE medical comparison they make, this is dishonest/incomparable, because precocious puberty is an EVIDENCE-BASED, objectively real medical issue, with empirical, evidence-based criteria for falsification. Diagnosis of "transgenderism" has NONE of the above- Neither the "condition' itself, NOR it's diagnosis in any specific child, have ANY basis in empirical evidence, whatsoever. And neither does it have any evidence-based criteria for falsification.
ON TOP of the violation of the Hippocratic Oath, this 100% absence of empirical evidence, is a SECOND, INDEPENDANT reason why giving children this drug, to treat "transgenderism" is objectively, definitionally NOT "medicine" or "healthcare" (which both need to be evidence-based).
At best, it's"pseudo-science"; At worst, it's some weird form of religious mutililation (like Islamic female genital mutililation, which shares a 100% identical standard of evidence with so-called ""gender-affirming care"; A standard totally devoid of empirical evidence, where 'but it FEEELS true, to me!!" alone, is enough to justify irreversably damaging a healthy child's body)]
It’s interesting that it didn’t seem to have occurred to Hannah that kids confused about their identity suffering from distress could be helped by therapists that are practicing outside of the gender therapy field. There’s still an assumption that if a kid says that their distress is coming from gender incongruence that the starting point should be to go along with that assumption.
Agreed! We are working hard to change the assumption that gender distress is a unique form a distress that only a "gender therapist" can help with.
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Liked and subscribed. Incredible interview, it's incredible how common sense has been politicized.
thank you!
Hannah, can i commend you on your compassion and professionalism ❤
The issue has never been about trans people. It's always been about the faulty health system.
2nd time listening to this. I wanted to actually watch to see faces because when it's audio only this interview comes across quite tense at times - but I think it's because Helen is trying really hard to hold space in this whole complex conversation for the clinicians who are often damned either way. We're all influenced by so many factors and want to help people in distress and it can feel like an emergency. There are times when I'm glad that I didn't end up in situations that I could have been a part of, especially early in my life working with kids. I'm grateful i didn't get into teaching and I'm grateful I didn't end up on the camhs end of things. I used to look at the psychologists and think, god, they're my age, they're just like me - how do they know how to help these kids they barely know? It's really worth remembering that every care related scandal relates back to the government that underfunds all of the organisations trying to hold up the safety net underneath these kids.
The Charity Commission need to read this book to assist in their Mermaids investigation.
If the human body is built for growth until maturity, old age and death how can you safety "block puberty"? And then safely reverse the effects? On a child?
You can’t.
That’s the mentality of the pharmaceutical industry. Create drugs that have a myriad of side effects-(death resulting from known side effects of properly prescribed and taken as prescribed drugs being in the top 5 causes of death in the US)-and tell people they are safe and effective, convince them they need them, then watch their bank balance grow.
It is equally dangerous for puberty to happen too early. Puberty blockers have many uses outside of gender affirming care.
I’m having so much trouble following this.
At the end of the discussion you are talking about the need for more services to handle the overload of clients. If it's true that most of this phenomenon is due to contagion and just fad, why do we need these places? That probably is Stella's point that some like her can help. Shouldn't it be more about education of physicians and school counselors? The kids don't need transition clinics, they need their heads shrunk back to reality.
Regardless of what you think the reasons are, people still need treatment whether the end result is persistence or desistance.
@@bridgetteparker7719 well; the treated should be confronted with their bodily reality, assured that they are OK persons, some times gay, sometimes having borderline personality disorder or autism spectrum. And rarely so persistent body dismorphia that can in all awareness of reality be alleviated by operations and hornones.
But all people are ok persons, they need to be aware of bodily reality and their realistic diagnosis characteristics instead of teaching children there is such a thing as a wrong body as an alternative for the regular insecurities in puberty. And autogynophiles are to be confronted and have to accept their condition/paraphilia and have to have a border again, instead of truth-restricting religious affirmative doctrine. Cause they also can be ok people, as long as they respect sex based rights and are aware of their sexual intentions.
I agree, it's very troubling how vague that part is. Who is running these local clinics? More "gender therapists"? Barnes seemed to take care to make "gender therapy" seem like a legitimate thing... At this point, honestly, it seems like a religious movement, unsupported by any robust science. So why this tip toeing around? Get rid of it. Or at least call a complete HALT to it until there is any real data to prove definitively that these interventions by "Gender therapists" benefit these young patients!
"Gender therapist" now starting to just sound like "Person who is just there to affirm you and write the prescription"
Yes, this is a complex issue that seems to elude many concerned parties. What is "gender care" and do we really need more of it, or do we need a more whole-person generalist approach?
@@bridgetteparker7719 A growing number of countries have been reverting to guidelines to offer medical transitioning only in exceptional cases when kids express persistent gender dysphoria from a very early age, long before puberty.
Really interesting interview. Hannah Barnes has indeed written an amazing book, and what an admirable, compassionate woman who couldn't ignore the wrong that she was seeing. It is stuck in my mind. And the fact that it is tightly concentrated on the facts and the interviews with involved people, with the reader left to make their own conclusions, makes it all the more powerful.
Yes that was definitely a strength of her approach
Graham was banging on about this stuff and being called a Nazi on the news and begging journalists to please look into it. How can journalists not have been at least aware of it?
I can understand general population being unaware, but not journalists.
There are heavy social incentives on the left to NOT look into it, just look away. If you scrutinise what is happening and you have concerns, you're immediately branded a bigot and thrown out of your social circle, even friends have to disavow you... I'm sure you know all this already. It's a belief system that it is taboo to challenge.
UK has kind of an authoritarian media structure... lots of McCarthyist smear jobs and dirty tricks.
Journalists are partisan campaigners.
"We were answering to Mermaids."
49:00 Where is the ethical healthcare imperative and the accountability for prescribed treatments??? It is a powerful admission that clinicians would defend their actions (and continue with them) as opposed to accept they might be wrong in their clinical approach even though there are life changing implications for children and clear disagreements among the GIDS staff in approach. This idea that a clinician needed to "keep clients happy" through this quasi-affirmative approach remains delusional and a failure of care - we don't affirm "eating disorders" or other psychosis, so why treat gender related disorders any different?. There is nothing here that seems to indicate shutting down Tavistock is the ideal. Without oversight and scrutiny and applied standards of care this seems like it will perpetuate clinical chaos in a decentralized manner reliant on "gender health care specialists" - which seems like CODE for affirmative trans-advocates.
Distressed people want relief. But the job of those treating them is not to rush permanent solutions to what could be a complex mixture of mental health conditions. All human beings experience excruciating times. Supporting people to tolerate difficult times with patient endurance will do a lot to serve them through the lifelong struggle of even the average person. Social transition through puberty should be the experiment for a child with gender dysphoria rather than receiving medical intervention. How many of us would have preferred not to endure puberty? But development is necessary to navigate from child to adult. Only a fully developed, mature brain could possibly make an informed decision to transition medically. I could be wrong but if I am wrong the consequences are not worse than medical transition gone terribly wrong.
Thank you for sharing this interesting interview.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks!
We appreciate your support, Michelle!
Hannah gives me cognitive dissonance, similar to having a conversation with ChatGPT. I think the best explanation for this is that she holds herself to the highest standards of pure journalism, which very few journalists do these days. But, it feels like she's cauterized part of her humanity as a by-product, or that she's an anthropologist who just landed here from another planet and is trying to figure out what this interesting foreign culture is doing. I could actually see her successfully writing a "neutral and unbiased" account of the Holocaust, and saying "that's disputed" or "that's not quite right" to people attacking her neutral, non-judgmental reporting from all angles.
That feels overly harsh, and perhaps she's still coming to terms with what she's learned, and is presumably still learning. I'm really curious to hear how her understanding will have evolved five years from now. Perhaps by that time she'll have found a way to come to terms with the role of ideology here that feels true to her principles as a reporter. In my opinion, ideology is the even bigger story here, just as it was with the Holocaust, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, etc., even though there's also plenty of story to report on down in the trenches.
lol sorry, that was a funny comment.
Me too. A journo and a new parent and not the least bit interested in spite of Bell or Lineham or Maya or JKR. She must have been in a cone of silence.
'I think the best explanation for this is that she holds herself to the highest standards of pure journalism, which very few journalists do these days.'
This is what I get from her. Her book builds on her excellent work for Newsnight.
'I could actually see her successfully writing a "neutral and unbiased" account of the Holocaust, and saying "that's disputed" or "that's not quite right" to people attacking her neutral, non-judgmental reporting from all angles.'
Neutral and unbiased accounts of the holocaust are all we need to judge it as an atrocity. Also it's really important that we have as much neutral, factual information as we can get about the holocaust because then it cannot be denied. I don't know if you've listened to many survivors' testimonies (there are loads on YT) but they give evidence as if they are in court. They describe what they saw and heard and what happened to them and who did and said what in as much detail as they can remember. If they're not sure about something they say so, or if they may not be remembering something quite right, or if other witnesses have interpreted an event differently.
Facts are extremely important and they're needed here as well. I don't need to agree with what Hannah Barnes thinks (now, or in 5 years time) to appreciate her journalism and her dedication to neutral reporting.
It's both necessary and sufficient. All we need is sunlight 😎
This interview felt odd and awkward because SOM and SA were approaching it as therapists, because they are therapists, and HB was approaching it as a journalist, because she's a journalist. We need both and we also need people who can write and speak about the ideology, which is not really the focus of this channel either.
Also HB would probably prefer not to get sued. Anyone writing a book like this will be constantly aware of potential libel claims.
@@Gerry_Daviesvery well said. She is deliberate in her language to ensure its clear that she only worked with the facts.. We are not used to this type of journalism dedicated to oure evidence and testimonies and facts anymore. Hence the slight weird factor of the interview. She is not there to give her own judgement, but just present her findings.
We may judge.
If giving the patients what they wanted made them happier, more mentally stable and didn't harm their physical health then what does it matter if a greater proportion of the adolescents persisted and went on to become trans adults and fewer grew out of it... unless you think a trans person's life is worth less than cis person's life.
Interesting insights
How can you effectively treat something that you don’t even know what it is or where the opinion on what it is is so varied? How can there be a choice between ‘being trans’ vs ‘being homosexual’? It’s not like choosing a color of the pants you’re gonna wear… I’m sorry, I’m just bewildered…
Yes, this is a crucial point, we agree.
I think that is what Stella was trying to ask. Why a "gender " therapist when any trained psychologist would know how to treat most of the problems.
Did you watch Jordan Peterson interview detransitioner Chloe? It drifted into a therapy session and it was obvious that Chloe had never had one second of proper analysis. She was crashing into herself in the podcast. Jordan kept saying "a trained therapist would have asked you this..."
or
"A trained therapist would have given you the tools to accomplish that..."
No wonder Susie Green behaved like such an entitled Narcissist! Sounds like she was directing the ship!
Another excellent Interview! Even if there were a few points of (agreeable) disagreement haha. I really appreciate what Hannah Barnes has done with her hyper-analytic source-based journalism, it has probably done more than most in actually moving the dial in Britain, which I feel is sometimes downplayed by some anti-trans activists (read twitter). I've been seeing a lot of animus towards Barnes from every 'side' (not including yourselves/GAWL) - for pushing transphobic agendas; not going far enough in her critique of wider transgender ideology; not calling for the end of all gender medicine; not/criticizing the idea of being trans itself; and being overly cautious about the interpretations of the data/intentions of clinicians. I'm not at all advocating a 'both sides approach' and some of the criticism is fair enough, I don't agree with Barnes on everything and it does seem she is missing some of the larger picture. I do think, however, that often her cautiousness is mistakenly framed as support.
We definitely need people that look at the entire picture. GAWL is amazing for that, and no one does that better that Sasha and Stella. But some people (not you) seem to think that if a journalist/individual decides not to take on the entire hegemonic beast, then their work is inherently a failure or malicious. That's not to say that some people that hyper-focus on one sub-issue can't go astray too (there's a lot of that), but people like Barnes who stubbornly, even frustratingly, stick to the analysis of the evidence they know about while being (overly)-cautious about everything else, are also important and needed, they play such a key role in practical change and changing people's minds. I just watched her book launch discussion at LSE and there were many people who tried to attack her (without having read the book) as being anti-trans, but her stead-fastness and lack of ideological commitment protects the core of her work from being seen as politicized, and clearly revealed those attacks to be in bad faith in a way that wouldn't be possible with people who take more of an ideological approach.
Just as a counter-example, for as much as I like the work of Helen Joyce, aspects of her wider campaigning and ideological critique will reflexively turn a lot of people (wrongly of course) away, which is inevitable when you move beyond concrete evidence and into critique of ideology/interpretation (there are even some points she makes that I would see differently/disagree with). Neither Joyces' nor Barnes' approach are inherently better, both of them are needed and build off of each other. But a focus on child-healthcare and medical malpractice is something everyone can agree on, and we shouldn't let all the rest of it push out people doing great work.
There doesnt seem to be a case to be made supporting the use of puberty blockers? Are they ever appropriate? The research indicates it simply is a step along the "affirmative" pathway which complicates surgery for MtF and may even increase self-harm ideation?? This speaks to the bans (if it is indeed a ban) in the alt-right extremist republics of Finland, Sweden and others 🙂.
There will be a debate about exactly this issue with Ken Zucker, Michael Biggs and Malcolm Clark at the upcoming Genspect conference in Killarney. Although its sold out, there are tickets available for the online event
@@widerlenspod Thank you! You are doing really important work. I am in shock today to learn that Spain has lost their mind. A 16 year old can now determine, without parental consent, to medical procedures? Shocking. That has government liability written all over it.
I have never heard the historically Liberal Nordic countries called "extreme Alt-Right" before. I wondered how long the extreme Alt-Left responsible for this tragedy would try to blame the Right for this mess. The Right was not involved in this at all! Own up to the many serious mistakes the Left is making!
I listened to this when it first dropped and it's still nagging at me how odd this interview was. Barnes at points seems incredibly reticent and wishy-washy, which is so strange given what her work has exposed.
agree
What personal and professional price and threats from the Left do you think she is facing due to sharing her research? It's no secret that there will be aggressive retaliation to deal with anyone, even an average person, who speaks out against this rabidly Left agenda.
No Stella, not all psychotherapists are competent at working with clients in relation to trans issues. I say this as someone who was abused by a university counsellor who claimed that deciding to take HRT was a form of self harming. I also saw a different counsellor at a rape crisis centre who was generally pretty good but when I started wanting to talk about if there might potentially be any crossover or interaction between what happened to me and the gender identity issues I was experiencing she just told me to contact the gender identity clinic. Clearly she didn't feel she was sufficiently knowledgeable in what is a very niche and very complicated field.
Fewer prescriptions by GIDS and a growing business for Susie Green and GenderGP!
I'd rather the detransitioners or victims sued gender go than a publicly funded NHS body.
I can’t believe they are defending therapists who knew they were providing substandard care for children. It’s unconscionable. And if children were damaged, those therapists are responsible. Which is medical malpractice so they should be sued and potentially prosecuted.
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Hannah is way too careful and defensive for me. I get not wanting to blame individual physicians (some anyway, but some definitely should be), but the practice itself should definitely be held to account
I agree, really. But in the real world of politics and bureacracy, her approach is almost certainly more effective, right now.
Like it or not, if you walk into any senate, or parliament, or political decision-making group today, and say "the ENTIRE FIELD of so-called 'gender-affirming care' is mutilation, with no basis at all in empirical evidence", REGARDLESS of the fact that statement is 100% objectively true, you'll get kicked out, dismissed as "a hateful transphobic bigot", and will have ZERO chance of effecting real change.
I suspect we need people like Hannah, to get this issue to the point where it CAN be publicly questioned, without immediately being dismissed as "transphobic bigotry".
What is TRUE, and what is EFFECTIVE POLITICALLY are two different things. And while I very much DO care about truth, on THIS issue, my priority is stopping the harm being done. Especially the harm to children.
If stopping that harm requires "playing politics", then fine, we need to play politics.
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 but this is her on a podcast. Not in front of congress. And no one goes in front of congress with such radical sweeping statements I would hope.
@@baconsarny-geddon8298agree
This is a great work of fiction. Key word: fiction.
@ThoughtfulTs are campaigning for exploratory therapy, please follow us!
can you share the link, Terry? We'd be happy to follow - do you mean on Twitter?
You can tell she's BBC - talk for as long as possible, while saying as little as possible, and making it as difficult to follow as possible.
She seems incredibly reticent and shying away from any definitive statement - so odd given the stark facts her work exposed. Maybe she is just really gun shy about the TRAs, who are incredibly rabid.
Why must the door be ajar 😭
Wow! Hannah is really backpedaling.
Stella, you really stumped her. Good for you!
…”another invasion of Ireland by the British…”
Oooooooo!!!! You di’int. 😂
Hannah Barnes never completely finishes asentence andis far too reticent.
There is no Trans ideology. There are just individuals trying to save themselves (some banded together because their is support in numbers when you’ve been marginalized) from Cis heteronormative culture.