HOI4 Man the Guns new Naval Guide (Hearts of Iron 4 MTG Expansion Tutorial)
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- With the upcoming release of man the guns or mtg people probably want to know what has changed with the new hoi4 naval machanics in hearts of iron 4. with many new features like new naval missions, new equipment designer and a brand new naval tech tree im showing you guys how to do anything you may need to know so you can be fully prepared for the worldwide expansion launch on febuary 28th
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All the poor naval controls were fixed in 1.6.1. You can now merge easily, assign missions in a better way, and cancel missions with one click. Also the XP gain was seriously nerved.
They really didnt
its more fucking confusing now.
are you lebanese?
Who’s up for the next dlc “in the sky’s above” where air units are made x999 more complicated?
Ideally it should be unplayable upon release but Paradox makes a patch later. paradox= games to patch/mod/fix …
Complicating things isn't necessarily bad since it also adds a lot of depth! MTG actually has revised my will to play hoi4 because before it just seemed a really dumbed step down from hoi3. Paradox games should be complicated! That's how the immersion is created and how you can get tons of playtime and still be learning and discovering new things.
x999 more deep, not complex. This short video explained it really well for the naval stuff. I love how paradox adds depth with a lower complexity ratio.
Sorry but if you think this is complicated then thats on you
For a lot of people have been saying a lot of the new things are very complicated compared to the old, which I can understand but then again I like a lot of the new stuff so
I never understood the old Naval mechanics to begin with. It's good to be on the same level as everyone else now.
Because there were no old naval mechanics. It was just battleships trashing everything else.
Well unless you had total air superiority and some torpedo bombers, or kamikazes 🤣
@@dustinl796 Radar + Torp bombers would absolutely demolish the Royal Navy by early 1941.
fleets i HOI4 are very ugly and awkward to handle
ShamanMcLamie I still don’t get it lol and I barely got it before man the guns.
Other companies patches - some fixes. Paradox - NEW GAME.
Paradox - some fixes for 20$.*
@@eq55 A whole rework isn't a few fixes. This DLC took longer than the Egyptians took to build the pyramids.
@@quintiax I hope you're being sarcastic; otherwise you're an idiot.
Other companies: put out the game they envision. Paradox: we'll just make the base game charge full price then sell the features intended to make it fun later. Also use a jank ass old engine and 32 bit
@@eq55 Why the sudden urge to swear? It only prooves my point.
Look darling, a whole rework of the navy, 4 new focus trees and all the other changes aren't some fixes. PDX uses the DLC policies, but the only reason they are even allowed by the community for it, is because their DLCs or (mostly!) worth it. The games are amazing and this is what makes it worth to pay for it. It also allows PDX to keep making amazing games.
This is a good update, a good rework and not a few fixes. I'd even question where you got that logic from...
Stop it! ITS SO PAINFUL TO SEE SOMEONE PLAYING THE DLC AND KNOWING YOU HAVE IT IN 3 DAYS
Trust me, it is well worth it.
Dustinl796 Videos But I can’t wait any longer ;(
Well if it makes you feel any better I still haven't played a complete game on it yet, the only thing I've done is going to single player and try to figure out how things work so I can make tutorials on it to help people understand how things work once it does release in a few days
Dustinl796 Videos Well, but still..... Can I write you over Discord?
Sure,
I did notice an error. The strike force mission basically means that the ships sit in port until an enemy is spotted in the area they are assigned to, and then they go engage them. This is so they don't drain all your fuel. Not really an issue as the US, but a problem for pretty much everyone else. So you have small fleets doing patrol missions to spot targets (not sure if aircraft can also spot) and then strike force to destroy.
Also, mine laying will primarily be a way for smaller nations to combat bigger navies. If there is a high likelihood of a battleship being damaged, or destroyers being sunk because an area is saturated with mines, a country would be more hesitant of sending their ships there.
Soooo essentially this will be Germany’s response to the British navy. Cause i fully expect the Kreigsmarine to have laid mines in the sea near their coast and off the coast of Norway, effectively cutting off Norway from allied support, or as a means of fucking with the British in the Atlantic if you could sneak some destroyers out there and then slip them back to a french port. I also love the path oriented commands for naval invasions, so now I can be the sneakiest of bastards
@@davidthorp01 Yep, or the Royal Navy to stop German sorties. Mines should be fairly ineffective in deep ocean like the north Atlantic, but we'll see how the balance works in practice
+@@davidthorp01 That's assuming that Norway isn't played by a human.
They certainly mined the coast of Sweden.
But the sea between Norway and Denmark and west of Denmark was firmly in our hands and *we* had the most mines there.
Remember that mines can damage subs too.
And you can spam destroyers to take out their subs.
I was playing as Norway and rocking a destroyers + heavy cruiser fleet with a few subs left over from before the war.
Germany managed to almost whipe out my fleet several times but they never quite managed to get superiority in the area nor lay mines.
golden comment, I have been so confused thinking my game was weird. I was so confused wondering why my ships were not out there. This needs to be pinned
FML.. I thought the previous naval mechanic was the toughest.. FFFFF.. I'm gonna suck at Hoi4. Time to return to eu4..!
To be honest i think this dlc has made it easier
Ah yes eu4 naval warfare, spam 100 heavy ships and block the enemy coasts
Zotrax Gonnayank thats exactly how i do it
Well now it's more based around the idea that you can't really spam Capital ships since you can have a Max of 5 Naval dockyards on them, realistically it's one every 2 to 3 years
yes, now minors can take major nations BB's easily with their DD spams
>When every country needs a co-op just to play the navy mini game added in the new DLC
T_T
Too bad we can't Lend-Lease ships, would have loved A New Zealand Navy controller
Dustinl796 Videos watch us need a army controller in the next update, then a politics controller, espionage, industry...
Welsey Ferris Oooooh shit this is going to get complicated
Or maybe don't play the whole game at max speed.
@@Tercinarep GOTTAGOFASSST!
I am happy they’ve encouraged less doom fleet stacking with fleets moving around meaning for good cover you need to have multiple fleets *looks at England*
But fleet stacking was British naval doctrine 😂
@@harryflashman3451 now it's "Omg I ran out of fuel in 2 days after deploying my fleet" doctrine
@@MegaOgrady omg yes it's so frustrating :(
My First game with the DLC (multiplayer):
Decided to go as naval focused fascist dutch that just built submarines.
1st Month of the war 2 dutch submarines kill over 6 british battleships with no losses, the rest of the british navy is completely destroyed by dutch subs and a small german capital ship fleet.
2nd Month of the war- we sea lion Britain (player) and capitulate it.
3rd Month-6th month We naval invade france (player) and push through belgium, france falls.
Naval casualties
Dutch casualties-
I can really see the naval invasion support actually coming in handy with the Axis and Allies at least in terms of late game stuff. Let’s say Germany has the opportunity to invade the US but wants to take the least obvious route to nock on the front door. Similarly, if Japan has the range, I foresee this being extremely helpful to them. Similarly, this can make the invasion of north Africa relatively interesting for the allies especially if it works out to being effective to halting UBoat interventions across the atlantic.
Edit: SENPAI NOTICED ME AGAIN?!
Nice and quick introduction to MTG. Great video!
Calm and informative as always. Thx! This will really help to get things going in two days.
Great instructional video ... can't wait to get my hands on the DLC.
i barely learned how to use navies pre-MTG and now they made it twice more complicated FKFKFKF
Great video. Thank you. I had no idea how to remove patrol areas. Now I do.
Thank you for your time and effort explaining these things about naval, aerial and martial mechanics. I keep on being destroyed by London and their attrition strategy or the Soviet plane's gaining air superiority because I have to patrol shipping routes but now at least I know how to actually do something about it. I wish paradox understood the premise of a tutorial so they didn't leave all that work to CZcams but that's part of the fun I guess.
😁
This video has totally helped, finally understand the fleet system now
Glad to help
Great video, thanks for putting in the effort !
Glad you enjoyed it
Learned a few key things... thank you very much
This was so helpful thank you
Glad to help 😁
A short story from my Hoi4 game last night with my friends playing as UK while the rest played USA, Empire of Japan, and German Empire
Hirohito: "You've been quite Alistair, what are you upto?"
*me, an unintellectual, not knowing how the hull system worked and trying to put 3 task forces into 1 Home fleet but sending them to reserves*
Neville Chamberlain: "I have no fucking clue dude"
Yikes.
Perhaps not start with the UK for your *first* Man the Guns game?
I did Norway myself.
Was quite interesting. =)
I don't think fleet exercising will be nerfed since to upgrade your ships you need alot of naval xp. Because of this naval xp can also be used to hasten naval doctrine research and is needed alot more than before.
Yea but its not that much, its only like 50 naval xp for a doctrie boost
@@dustinl796 For countries like Germany it could be a lot
Silver but fuelll
in USA's case, they have a big navy with unlimited oil. so before they enter the war, they can just rush through naval researches and make their new, powerful templates.
What do you mean? Are you saying me haven't Max Naval excuse the United States in September of 36 is it fair? 😂
Thank you for this guide, I absolutely have no idea how this new system worked until now. Thank you
Glad to have helped 😁
Great tutorial. Thanks.Could not for the life of me figure out how to remove zones
Thanks for the guide. Maybe you could do some videos explaining the new multiplayer meta for man the guns?
Probably will
Hey a little tip for mine laying. It's best to use it to ensure that you can navaly invade big naval nations such as America or Japan. But you've got to start doing it early. Lets say you're italy and you know you need to invade gibralter or suez to break out of the Mediterranean. You would start laying mines around Gibralter and Suez when at war with ethiopia so that you can combat Brittains better navy later. It's also good defensively. Like playing as Germany and laying mines in the Brittish chanel.
Thank you for the explanations. I was completely lost because of this new system. Now, I feel more comfortable with this update! Keep making your videos, they are awesome!
Glad I was able to help
Dustinl796 Videos 👍
Dustin thanks for the heads up. Looks like a lot of new features but it really helps to have this video. Now my only question is how the hell you got the dlc before the rest of us. Do you have high contacts in Paradox. Ha, ha, ha.
CZcamsrs in press get it early
Thanks Dustin for telling me that. I thought I missed something so I just checked my game to see if it was on there. :-) It sure is nice when you do these videos to prepare us for major changes in the game. Appreciate it. By the way, we'll need 50 more videos from you just to sort this DLC out. Ha, ha, ha. But seriously, thank you......
aye this helped me so much thx man! I kept getting my fleets destoryed by the japanese lol
Do you now?
Nope!
Well then ive failed -_-
Thank you very much!!
😁
Easiest way to combine: select the 2 fleets you want to combine and click and slide the ships you want to move. I think of you right click it work too.
Can't buy it yet but good to know the mechanics, thanks! edit: Hey i liked the last stream you did, when you gonna do another one? Thanks.
Glad to help,
Nice Video thanks.
That's quick xD
Thank you
Also worth mentioning that there are further ship upgrades in the electronics research tab.
Yes there are but at the time of making this video it was a couple days before the official public release, that was not an implemented feature that was available yet for some reason
@@dustinl796 I didn't really notice it either. I play with mods, so I had no idea what the default look was :P Busting my balls with Hearts of Oak mod now...
Right shift is the words of the day, my goodness I was mining the world's oceans due to me not knowing how to unassign. Thanks
Oof, well at least you got it now 😁
1:30 you say there are 41 light ships, but there are 27 light ships 41 is the total number of ships.
its actually the total amount of ships in the fleet
Oof
Does that mean that i can't stack 1000 submarines and pulverize everything in my way ?
If the enemy has alota destroyers? Nope
In single player probably still.
wait can you kill a CV-BB-CL taskforce with just 1000 subs? is that real
+@@furkanavc8680 Yes.
Add in some anti-sub destroyers in that mix though and those subs are going down.
The destroyers locate the subs, drop some depth charges that force the subs to the surface and then the rest of the fleet finish them off.
Some subs might also get discovered when firing off the torpedoes, especially early game leading to their destruction.
If you're facing a big enemy fleet I'd say go for multiple smaller sub fleets and lay mines.
Then when you got a decent mine coverage reconfigure your subs and start hunting their bigger ships.
Most of them probably won't be outright destroyed, but they'll be damaged and limping back to port.
Then you can send out a cruiser + destroyer fleet against their destroyers (possibly with 2-3 battleships for added punch against their cruisers) out their fleet.
Basically, it's a bit rock-paper-scissors right now.
Whatever fleet they decide to field you can hard counter it.
But does spamming battleships work
In theory it could but if you lose your screens like destroyers with depth charges and their submarines in the battle or if the enemy has aircraft carriers and you don't you're probably more than likely going to get wrecked
@@dustinl796 yea that probably wont work......
Just 1 more question:
I saw in the video that a modified ship (carrier in this case) costs twice as much as a normal one. So is it even worth greatly modifiying youre ships or should you not greatly modify youre ships and keep the cost low?
Anyways love ur cids!
Edit:vids not cids
since you can only put a max of 5 naval dockyards to build heavier ships, there not gonne be much spamming.
@@glamscum thats why you build multiple at 1 time 5 slots of 5 dockyards on carriers out produces 15 dockyards on 2 carriers at least right now
@Ricardo Milos omg.... How did i **** that up.... Its vids.....
Best hoi4 CZcamsr ever !!!, Keep it up
Thx 😁
I played a game as Britain, went the King's Party route and all that guff. I concentrated both the Home & Med fleet's together, sent them off and left them a few months while I utterley crushed Italy in Africa. When it came to making preparations for invading Sicily, I took a look at the fleets and found to my horror they were operating at much reduced capacity; Some 30 destroyers lost with a number of crusiers, both fleets in port licking their wounds.
Granted, I had no air force contesting the skies or naval bombers harassing the Italian fleet. A re-think was required to my attempted doomstack............
I wonder if the type of guns on a ship effect offshore bombardment. I designed a cruiser with several level 2 medium turrets for this very purpose. I believe the more guns and heavier guns, the more effective the bombardment support. Like a cruiser with just a few light guns and lots of anti air i believe wont be as effective for bombardment? Seems this way to me in man the guns. I also wonder how to escort troops just moving on transports from one friendly port to another but through enemy war zone areas.
I might be late, and you might say this to another video but: 1/5 means that 1 task force out of 5 that are assigned to patrol that area is currently in that area. Each task force will go from one to another area (I had 2 TF in 3 areas and they beehive in that way). I had 2/2, 0/2 and 0/2 and that means that they aren't distributing around.
Reason why you have strike force is for main fleet don't consume fuel, while smaller task force are searching for enemy. Not problem for USA with plenty of oil, but oil was stretchy for me in France.
CZcamsrs and press got the game early, when I was doing it's at Oriole there was a bug in the game that caused Strikeforce to act the same as Search and Destroy from the last patch and wasn't updated yet, sorry
shift + click your fleets lets you mark all fleets to e.g. merge them all together.
Just started playing with Waking the Tiger, My version doesn't have the "Request License Production" option. Is there a work around so I can use your strategies?
On naval invasion support once you choose a zone in the ocean how do you cancel your fleet going there
Nice introduction! I've got one question though, is it just me or is the automatic reinforcement and strike force template mechanics broken? I made three fleets with the same template and gathered all remaining ships in the reserve fleet. The template included 39 ships but the automatic reinforcement screwed this up big time. Every ship was in the same area but one strike force got 7 ships, another got 11 and one got 48, what's up with that?
To be honest on a few discords people are complaining about the reinforced from Reserve fleet's too. I'm pretty sure it's just bug and will be patched soon
I think it's sort of bugged.
It's close enough to working to be of *some* use though although I certainly hope they'll fix the issues...
You can literally drag and drop ships from one task force to another if you assign multiple task forces a single commander. When you select the main fleet, all task forces will be listed below it on the left hand side of the screen, with the small little images of the number of ships in each task force. You can then simply drag and drop these small images to merge or edit your task forces very quickly as opposed to scrolling through task forces manually, removing them, then adding them etc.
Well now you can but originally when the update launched there wasn't an option to do that, that was added with the 1.6.1 update
@@dustinl796 Odd - I could have sworn that you could do it already in Waking the Tiger, since this was the only way I arranged my fleets....ever.
On a side note, however, you can also select all your ships via the navy screen, send them to the same port, merge them into one fleet, and then click the little scale button which will automatically sort all your ships into balanced task forces.
To keep track of them, I then send each task force to a separate harbor, and in my building queue, I select these naval bases so they spawn there. Then it's easy to simply select those ships and click the merge button which will merge only the ships at that port with the rest of the fleet.
Well you can but it first when the update released that was no longer an option, whenever you try to drag ships it would just give the information it wouldn't actually put them in a new task force
Really impressed with this DLC and the patch update. Lots to get into and HOI4 was getting a bit stale. I'm not a big fan of Stellaris (I fall asleep half way through sessions lol) however what i did like was the combat and how ship designs/upgrades worked. So to add this in here with some of the complexity of real ship building is really cool and for the most part its been implemented well. It look a little while to figure it all out but its not that complicated :)
Strike force is stationed in a port. They only deploy when the patrol of the zone makes contact with the enemy.
hoi 4 v1,3,3 still the best , i got the waking the tiger as last update and game is so fucking hard that you can play with major countries only . and it crashes all the time ,, v1,3,3 i played till 1960s and didn't crash once , i took over the entire world with fking albania on iron man mode ..
now on new updates i'm with germany on easiest difficulty and can't win war first try ,, i gotta load fking saves or start over like 9 times ,, it's fking bullshit
the best navy i find to be
EDITED because i did a lot more testing
SS = full of torps , best engine
a good sub is the 1940 one (the 1944 uses cromuim)
snorkel
-> although radar is nice ..in my testing i found the subs too easy to detect
1936 DDs wrecked my '40 and '44 subs
with snorkel, the 1936 DDs could rarely and barely kill a few
go with snorkel because it allows your subs to get away safer if they meet any trouble
DD = 2/3 Depth charges , Sonar , a torpedo launcher , best engine , dual purpose artillery
-> these are fast and will easily troll torpedo nuke ships because they engage fast
also subs
-> they don't have good sub detection but i'll get to that later
LC = one Heavy cruiser battery , two light cruiser batteries
3 planes , radar , best engine , best armor , fire control 0
you can also slap a torp launcher/another battery/depth charge depending on your needs
-> this is your detector right here
it has insane detection (subs and surface) , excellent speed while also having great firepower against destroyers and other Light Cruisers
-> having best armor means 10 armor...Light guns of Light cruisers and DDs will not penetrate !!
HC = one plane , 2-3 heavy batteries , 1-2 light batteries , Radar , best armor , best engine
-> this is your DD and LC remover ...the firepower wrecks those
armor is 10 so light guns can't penetrate and it's great speed allows for fast engagement
Heavy hull = BATTLECRUISER ARMOR (BC)
do not go for BB armor because it's speed drawback is too big
1-2 planes , Radar , best engine , Fire control *can't tell if the reliability hit of the better fire controls is worth it or not
be sure to keep it's speed around 30 knots to allow it to engage faster !!
put guns on it to have it get 40 armor piercing..not more
if i remember correctly , 2 artillery III and 2 artillery I will get you 40 AP and strong damage (40 AP can pierce anything short of a superheavy)
The reasons i support BC armor over BB armor are the following:
-speed makes you engage faster thus dealing more hits
-30 armor means only heavy artillery and superheavy artillery will penetrate (the armament of BB and SHBB)
the 40 armor of the BB armor set is useless because those same heavy and superheavy artillery guns will penetrate because they easily get over 40 armor piercing so there's no point in trading your speed for armor that offers no improvement
-the older BBs and BCs (usually the starting ones or early ones the AI loves to spam) are still incapable of piercing you with 30 armor ..so going for 40 is overkill
-cheaper
SuperHeavyBB
put enough batteries to keep it around 25kt speed (don't go full artillery because the ship's speed would be so low that most battles would be over before it would even be in range)
fill the remaining slots with AA and planes because those don't affect speed
this ship has so many slots that you can get around 3 planes on it after you're done arming it to the teeth
also get radar on it
i suggest going for best fire control here as this ship stays in the back and doesn't draw too much fire to suffer from the reliability loss
CV (carriers)
engines and deck space ... going for carrier naval bombers mostly (you can get some carrier fighters but don't go for more than a third of the capacity as fighters)
Notes:
SPEEDS:
DDs must be faster than 40kt
LC must be ~40kt as well
HC ~35kt
BC ~30kt
SHBB ~25kt
DETECTION:
detection is averaged over your ships so having one ship with good detection and 100 ships with bad detection screws you over
thankfully the LC i mentioned are cheap enough and have so good detection that you won't get messed by the averaging
RELIABILITY:
i understand that reliability is more like a chance
the lower it is ..the more chances are that whenever a ships takes a penetrating shot, that shot is a critical hit
keep reliability high on your DDs and LC (maybe HCs as well) because these are the ones that take hits
your BCs can afford having a bit lower reliability because they're more in the back
your SHBBs can lose the reliability as they don't take many hits ..and even if they do..they have armor and HP to shrug it off so go with best fire control on them as their hits are extremely damaging thus valuable
SUGGESTION:
if you lack fighters on CVs or if you lack CVs entirely ...go with a separate cruiser that is full of AA and it has little armament in terms of naval artillery ( Fire Control as well !! )
keep it around 30-35knots to keep it a bit behind the gun cruisers in order to not get shot at but not be too in the back
you will drown planes with a handful of these
this approach (versus the CV with a few fighters) is desirable if you play as a smaller / weaker nation in terms of naval dockyard amount and resoures
MINES:
don't know stuff about them as i did no testing
i suggest getting 1-3 DDs with max minesweeping if you're meeting them
never met them in single player though
FINAL WORDS:
-if you took the time to read all of this you're godlike
-the designs and roles of the ships i came up with come from hours and hours of naval combat
feel free to improve on my comment if you have ideas by dropping a reply
Naval Invasion Support is the best.
Love that I don’t have to watch 6 hours of footage to learn to have fun in this game.
Is there anyway to move a fleet from one theater to another? Was trying to create an Atlantic and Pacific theater and move the fleets into the right ones but doesn't seem to let you.
Pretty sure that's the only way
Moving ships around and sorting fleets is a huge pain in the ass if your fleet has more than a hundred ships in it. Microing Britain is even worse than the US because you've got nearly no oil (meaning no setting orders and leaving them alone like you used to be able to) and your fleets are spread out all over the globe. As is I really wish ships automatically redocked when taken off of an order like training. Having to manually move them is a huge pain, especially if I'm busy holding off a German invasion of Greece while having to fight the German and Italian naval forces.
Also we need to be able to give orders directly from the fleet command level. Having to click all of them separately to give them the same order (go back to ports plz) is a pain in the butt.
As for mines, spam your oldest destroyer or cruiser with nothing but mine layers or minesweepers. Get a fleet of about 30 of them and just leave them alone in a region you'd prefer the AI not go since they're good for sinking/damaging things when your fleet is out of oil and your planes are all grounded. They're also handy for ensuring naval dominance of a region on your coast where the enemy wants to land but can't just stick 3000 plans over. Minelaying in the channel is also a good idea while the french are still around as Britain.
Edit: In regards to minesweeping, that's probably going to be more of a thing in multiplayer games in areas like the Pacific, Med, or North Atlantic. As is it's generally pointless to sweep heavily mined areas as they're generally in zones where the AI will spam you with bomber planes and you wouldn't want to sail into anyway.
That pain in the ass oil shortage with guarding waters all over the globe is historical accuracy.
Agreed
@@tomasotto8980 The oil shortage isn't a pain in the ass. It's actually very manageable. Having to constantly micro everything is the actual issue because it'll mean any Britain or any Japan in a multiplayer game will pretty much need to either play on a far lower speed than what Germany, the US, or France, or Russia would prefer or they'll have to constantly neglect their Army and Airforce. It's also made worse because if I take a fleet off of convoy raiding they just sit in the middle of the ocean twiddling their thumbs instead of returning to port. Which is really annoying if any enemy fleet is around, because they're 100% going to get intercepted and there's fuck all you can do about it. Manually moving fleets around also requires way more oil for some reason and I have absolutely no idea why that is.
The only practical alternative I've found as Britain is to do what the Germans actually did in WW2, and build yourself a massive oil reserve while cutting back on everything that uses oil. Mothballing most of the fleet and most of the airforce in the process. Next to no motorised divisions, limited tanks, only the best and most efficient equipment. Horses if speed is required. If you do that an oil reserve of about 3,000,000 fuel (with occasional US imports) will last you almost the entire war as Britain.
In regards to historical accuracy, HOI isn't even close to it nor are the problems of the game similar to those of real life. HOI is a game and is supposed to be fun. WW2 was not fun. It was, like all wars, primarily made up of incredibly boring activities like logistics management, training, and so on. You could make a game about that if you want, but I'll take a hard pass thanks. Also the game totally ignores the actual German war goal, has a series of hilariously absurd national focuses, and focuses on a rectangular globe, meaning the Artic is way too small and Russia is way too big compared to real life so y'know, fun times with realism there. The Italians are also a major power with a serious military industry for some reason, which is hilarious because in real life Italy was just a very egotistical minor nation that could only barely outproduce Greece and which at no point ever came so much as close to exceeding the production statistics of Britain in the interwar years. Hence it's airforce was totally useless, it's army both worthless and dismally led, and its navy was hopelessly outmatched. The Germans are also really op compared to reality, where the Germans mostly did well due to the sheer incompetence of the allies in the early war and the fact that Germany was a semi-mobilised nation fighting against demobilised nations. The second Britain and the Soviets properly mobilised their military forces, the Germans were utterly fucked and it was only due to the genuine quality of the German NCOs and mid level officers that Germany wasn't defeated far sooner. Weather is also fucking irrelevant in game as well by the by. Tanks are universally far too reliable and too similar. The war is way too fair. I could go on, but you get my point. If you're going to add something to a video game, you need more than just historical accuracy.
New possible naval meta:
mines.
Maybe then submarines will be more useful.
any way to get a discount on the dlc? do you recommend to purchase it right away or wait for patches?
Me personally I would buy it as soon as you can, even though there are bugs most of the time they're pretty fun. For example with waking the tiger than me for bills we're actually giving a negative 20% consumer goods making Germany's almost zero and Incredibly easy to build up
Evaluate that on a DLC by DLC basis I'd say.
Most Paradox DLCs are well worth getting early on.
In other cases it's well worth waiting for a discount before buying them.
With HoI4 Man the Guns I'd say try playing it with and without the DLC using multiplayer to get the "with" sense.
And see what you like the most.
Being able to lock certain sea zones so your convoys won't go there is one of the big things that's locked behind the DLC.
Other things are not as important to actually playing the game but rather things that just add to it and makes it more interesting.
Like the ship designer.
For some reason with the command Instantconstruction you also built 1 ship or something like that each day no matter the cost or the dockyards you had, wonder if that's still in.
It is...
Holy Crap thank you so much for this. I was lost on how to manage my fleets but now I feel I have the basic knowledge required to attempt to learn this new system.
Glad to have helped 😁
I recommend minelaying because I went with New Zealand and broke off from the allies then went to war with Australia and japan, though their navies were millions of times larger, I had 14 destroyers and 33 submarines (named the 33 Miner Boyz), and I gained naval superiority that way. It's useful for tiny nations.
I'll have to try it again but whenever i tested it out it didn't do much for me
At least it seems that fleets are a lot more similar to armies.
In a lot of ways they are, yes. =)
Well this is...interesting for certain. The treaties and patrol system are an unexpected change. This new update is a real leap, the elimination of ship classes in favor of making your own really from hulls in my opinion is completely unnecessary and kind of hurts immersion. I think they should have just given the option to upgrade existing ships. I’ll miss seeing the names of these legendary ship classes in my tech tree.
But there are still HULL classes, you just gun them to fit a role, eg: a CL with guns is a combat cruisers, but if you add more AA it becomes a support cruiser for a fleet.
This is more inmersive, you are not provided 5classes per size, you MAKE said classes using the correct hull and weapon placement
My issue with these components is how it will affect your research plan. I mean, with so much stuff that you already want to prioratize, if you want to really invest in your navy it seems it will take a LOT of time to actually get the stuff you want which seems too much in terms of research prioratizing. When will I get my navy all sorted? 1946??
@@dmau5e
you can use naval xp to research faster. and it's easier to earn xp now
also there are ship namelists that you can use for the historical names
my opinion about creating fleet in this DLC is :
DD is the main body of a navy now ...
you need patrol fleet : DD , they can scout and if you set their setting at low risk , they would avoid everything too hard to chew with fast speed that you don't worry losing 5 ships into the horder of 50. Remember to add some CL with planes to increase the spot power btw
W/O DD , Subs gonna chew your convoys alive , DD are best for convoy escort over Pacific without worry that some wolf gonna throw your soldiers down the sharks
sub and DD can lay eggs now ... not sure how many would be effective but then ... if you don't want your Pride of Fleet ship randomly retrofitted into submarine ... better have some minesweeper with them
My idea of design
Sub go with full Torps, still see a reason to create egg laying subs instead of wolfpack
Escort DD : multi roles guns + depth charges + torps
Scout DD : DD gun + depth charges + Sonar + Radar
Minesweeper : AA + Minesweeper
Minelayer : 2 egg layers since you would only build some
CL Fleet Escort : full spot (radar + sonar + catapult) + AA
CL Scout : radar + plane catapult + guns
Coastar : they are so good as naval supporter as i built them with medium guns and AA, you don't need to have best ship to bomb some punny beaches anyway
Hum.
We got somewhat different ideas so far.
I agree that destroyers are important.
But I prefer a destroyer + heavy cruiser combo for both patrols, convoy escorts and strike forces.
The difference just being the actual configurations.
Patrols only have 1 or 2 heavy cruisers pr task force and 3-4 destroyers with hybrid builds able to deal with pretty much anything you can face (so some anti-sub, some anti-air, some anti-heavy (battle ship and heavy-cruiser) and mostly anti-light (destroyers and light cruisers) firepower.
Escorts are pretty much the same except bigger.
Strike forces are way bigger with more heavy cruisers and targeted against whatever enemies you're spotting (although initially you should aim for a hybrid build here too so you can deal with anything, reconfigure them once you spot the enemy fleet, a few ships at a time)
If you got the spare research and naval dockyards you can throw in a battleship or two too in the strike force.
But that's about it really.
If your fleet gets destroyed and you got the army to defend your coast you can do subs instead to try to weaken the enemy fleet while you try to build up a fleet of your own that can deal with whatever they're fielding.
@@Luredreier from my experience with the IJN and Red Fleet :
as IJN : i kept a fleet made of 4 early dd and 4 early cl in Micronesia (2 with upgraded tier III radar) and they keep track of the USN without get killed by the U.S (8 vs 70 but the stacked fleet were too slow to hunt down the fast ships)
but my Red Fleet with 2 CA, 2 CL , 5 DD got hunted right way by IJN subs (and then a task force with 20 ships) when operated near Alaska
=> Fast ships : escape strike force easier and will not trigger naval battle since the task force couldn't keep up
Heavy ships : boom everything out of water as long as they can hit them
=> Stack fleet = you can hit nothing outside main fleets nowaday
research engine is importal ...
7:31 it doesn't work like that in game. i have 1 task force and patrol 2 region but they doesn't travel other region. they only stay 1 region
How do you do that fancy shit at the start of the video with the theatres and like sub armies?
Nvm I'm autistic that's for the fleet.
only quiestion i have is how many for example sumbarines should be together in one fleet and in one attack.. i have submarines like 15+ - together .
what is the best way to protect Capitals how meany of each ship sould compise a task force, i played us and went to war with UK the killed my whole fleet ?
I'll try to video about it soon but really right now to protect your Capital ships you just need heavy armor and heavy guns, then for screens destroyers that have depth charges and sonar along with Cruisers with armor and guns for AAA
How do you build a new fleet from scratch it’s so confusing now. Also how does that fleet composition manger work I thought it would just build the ships you said the fleet needed on its own but it doesn’t. You have to build them manually then assign them to the fleet. Is it just like that or am I screwing up?
Pretty much whenever you design a new ship and it's deployed it will automatically put it in a task force, selected and at the bottom you will see a plus button for this normally like Army generals and click it,
Pretty much whenever you design a new ship and it's deployed it will automatically put it in a task force, selected and at the bottom you will see a plus button for this normally like Army generals and click it,
Dustinl796 Videos ugh, I wish they just did it like stellaris where they have a separate tab when designing a new fleet and it just automatically sends the build orders it’s a lot simpler. Thanks for the reply though!
When your America don’t know how the new navel combat works and as a result the Japanese now control Arkansas
“Alright time to get one help”
Arkansas? 🤔
Dustinl796 Videos Louisiana that better? How bout Tennessee? Minnesota? Kentucky?
Geographics weren't your strong suit were they?
Kione WinterHowl the joke is they’ve taken so much land they’ve taken such a middle of nowhere state. In the middle of the country more or less
Fun game: take a drink every time he sais task force in this video
43 drinks late, PLEASE STOP!
Soo are you typing this in the hospital then 😂
Just hold shift to select 2 things and then g to combine
You forgot something really important about the missions. All the missions will cost you Fuel per day, except for Strike Force. With Strike Force, your task force will stay at a port costing you no fuel. And when an enemy fleet is detected, the task force will leave the port, costing you fuel per day during their battle until they go back to the port, waiting for the next enemy to be detected. This allow you to use your fleet without completely empting your fuel reserve, but even better, this give a important purpose to smaller ship. Those ship were near useless in the past in big battle, but now you need them to patrol and detect the enemy fleet at a low fuel per day cost. Without smaller ship, you either need to spend a lot of fuel for your capital ship to patrol, or risk to never find the enemy and never engage it.
That's really weird, with strike force my ships have been still burning oil
@@dustinl796 Weird indeed. I can't test it again, but I had all my navy doing nothing and tested only one task force. In patrol and convoy missions had the highest cost, exercise cost was smaller, but strike was free. Of course if an enemy is spotted, the strike force will start to cost fuel as they reach and engage the enemy. I just watch a video from Count Cristo and he say the same thing. Strike don't cost fuel when in port.
+@@dustinl796 I think I know why...
You where fighting a enemy who had a lot of ships of their own out there so your strike force kept havying to sally out and fight more and more battles and they had to cover too big of an area.
Try having more and smaller strike forces that cover less of an area with some overlap and see if that helps.
In my game as Norway the strike force used very little fuel in the beginning of the war but more in periods with a lot of enemy naval activity.
It's a bit like how your troops on land don't use much equipment when just standing still but when the enemy is attacking your troops you suddenly start burning through your equipment and manpower.
To be honest you're probably right, I only had been playing the DLC for about a day and a half and I remember the following day there was an update so
Is good dlc. I can’t read but I think this is a good video friend
I love you Dustin! ;) (Not in the creepy way)
That's not how I feel 😂
The one question I wanted answered was not addressed. Did they fix the actual naval battle mechanics? I mean I assume they did but I don't want to buy this DLC if a battleship death stack can still wipe out anything and everything. I want to know if the rock-paper-scissors mechanic that was supposed to be intended for naval combat was implemented or not. If I get man the guns will subs beat battleships? Will battleships beat light screening ships? Will light screening ships beat submarines?
You could still technically add tons of ships to a stack and only use that stack however now because Capital ships you can only have 5 dockyards if you lose you are completely out of the naval war all together and have to build up again for at least a couple years minimum. So it should make people reconsider doing that
+@@dustinl796 The 5 dockyard thing doesn't change much.
You can still build 500 battleships at once if you have 2500 dockyards.
The chance is just that you need 500 different lines of battleships building instead of just a few massproducing them every few seconds.
If you make those parallell lines of battleships being produced staggered you'll still end up with the same throughput of a new ship every few seconds.
It's just that from beginning to construct a ship till *that* particular ship is done there's now more time involved instead of it happening almost instantly.
@OP
While I wouldn't call it outright *fixed* it's definitivly a lot more balanced then it was and you have to think more on your feet so to speak to keep your fleet floating.
And there's ways to deal with those death stacks.
While mines and torpedoes from subs won't outright sink most of the enemy capital ships they'll damage them enough to force them to port for repairs so you can weaken them to the point where you'll actually have a chance of defeating them with other ships.
And things like mines also reduces the effectiveness of their ships giving you a chance against a enemy with superior numbers.
Numbers still matters of course, but you can encounter a enemy with superior numbers and *still* have something left of your fleet afterwards and also deal enough damage back to not worry about facing them again for a while unless they're willing to split up their fleet, something that in turn would make it possible for you to defeat them in detail.
The lower number on a fleet is the total number of ships, not just light ships
Oof, misa bad
That's not actually how strike force works. That's how search and destroy used to work but now strike force sits in port until a fleet is sorted and then moves out to engage. It's to keep a large fleet from consuming an absurd amount of fuel. You use either a small task force of light ships to find the fleet and then your big boy task force of Capitol ships will sail over to intercept it. I believe fleets picked up by land based radar will also be intercepted. Long story short fleets/task forces on strike force CANNOT find enemy fleets by themselves and need another means of finding them before they will leave port.
To be honest that's what I thought it did to whenever I was playing around with it but then the entire fleet was still out at Sea and I just assumed it was the same thing as the before man the guns
@@dustinl796 hermmmm... that's very strange. It's possible that the task force is simply given a hold order wherever it's at and will then Sally forth from that sea region to respond to spotted fleets. Regardless you're fleets are no longer abstractly spread out instead a task force will join a battle all at once although there is now a penalty for the time it takes for new task forces to join combat.
+@@dustinl796 Strike forces head for shore if there's no fight available for them to sally to.
If you have three different patrolls all being engaged by the enemy though then your strike force will help each of those in turn instead of returning to port and only return to the port once there's no more fights available at sea to distract them.
To be honest that might have been that I'm not sure, CZcamsrs and press got the game about a week early and I made this video only two or three days in before the release and I know there was an update before the release to fix a few issues reported so that might have been one of them
Please help, when I assign a fleet to strike force a sea region it always stays in dock. I tried to force it by just right click on a region without assigning to strike or convoy raiding but yet still when I assign to strike force it went back to dock.!
Apparently that's partially how Strikeforce is supposed to work and what happened with me was a bug, it has a few ships out patrolling but it has the main Fleet in Port to save oil, if a naval battle happens it will leave the port in engage
Wow it's been almost a year since this dlc released
Seems like yesterday doesn't it?
@@dustinl796 it really does, happy new years!
Can you make videos how i can have large navy because i start producting but i never get any carriers ...
Depends on who you play as now, unless you're a major Nation it's very unlikely you'll be able to get a large enough Navy to do very much
@@dustinl796 thanks is now easier to get navy or no
+@@dustinl796 Sort of true.
You can still do naval gameplay that matters as a minor.
But you'll depend on *some* support from a major when facing of against another major.
Capital ships like carriers and battleships are just out of your reach.
But you can do a lot of good with just cruisers and destroyers. =)
+@@speedupbalkan372 It's easier to get something done with a small navy of submarines, destroyers and cruisers.
It's a *lot* harder to get bigger ships though to the point where minor nations can kind of just forget about them.
That said.
You can force enemy capital ships like battleships and carriers to port with things like mines and torpedoes.
You might not actually sink them, but you take them out of action for long enough to make them a non-issue for quite a while.
@@Luredreier thanks its good
Actually the only navy focused new video I've seen...
Yeah because it's so overly complicated now I've been the only one to figure it out 😂
Wow..could you show us the other map modes in the future :v...
the others are pretty much the same
Hi :) I am a German and I think you are from the UK, is that right? ^^
dude you should really make sorted play lists for your vids would hep newbs like me out a lot thx btw.
I have a one question. Did you play a long game? And if you did please tell me if you noticed any optimization improvement.
I haven't played a long game yet however it does look a little bit better optimized so far
@@dustinl796 Ok thanks
@@dustinl796 bro i have problems with long game i disabled everything in options and texture is on low but still late game can you make some tutorial for fixing it i would be very happy
I want it Now!!!!
It makes you feel any better I still haven't played one full round yet
I need help cause im playing country that has no navy and try to build that it says that i have no modules and even when i raged on that and use cheats research all posible modules (torpedos and stuff) exept ships nothing happed what i need to do?
you need to add the equipment to the ship template, go into the template by clicking the upgrade icon beside the ships in production and create a variant, usually they need the bottom bar only but some require less/more than others. for destroyers for example you need engines, and a single gun on the bottom left. just add 1 of everything to see when you can save to know what your missing
Bro thanks after analising ur comment now i can build submarines with Albania! Thanks!!!
Is the naval system for the most part gonna be the same as before cause I didn’t even really get the previous naval combat system
All I did was spam capital ships and 4 CVs with maxed out deck size and shit tons of CV fighters before MtG, honestly. Looking at the hull designs, I’d say it’s changed quite a bit, probably not obsolete, but you most likely can’t go into naval battles with the same pre DLC mentality.
Well not entirely, after all now Capital ships can only have a Max of 5 dockyards so if you lose one you take a huge hit and it takes quite a while to build them
Dustinl796 Videos Will you do any Naval battle tests to see what good fleet compositions to run in MtG? Or is it still somewhat the same just with the new hull mechanic?
Dustinl796 Videos are you planning on doing a more in-depth naval guide in the future? Just asking cause I wanna actually learn the naval system once the update comes out. Or should I just use previous guides
I probably will later on,
Naval map mode has been in the game since forever
Yeah but they updated it, now zones are laid out differently
@@dustinl796 And you can do things like tell your convoys to never enter a given sea zone.
how come for some heavy ships like a heavy cruiser theres only 5 building slots but for light ships theres way more???
People found out that to win Naval battles in Hearts of Iron 4 you just need aircraft carriers and destroyers, mostly in the multiplayer Community people would put these in massive stacks of 15 to 20. If a bunch of them got sunk it wouldn't matter cuz they had more already almost fully built, Paradox changed it so that you have to really conserve them now because they take so long to build. It's more of an anti-spam system then anything
@@dustinl796 that's dumb. i don't want to wait 17 years to build a battleship. i'm in single player too! hoi4 naval is ruined.
I wanna know how to transport troops over the sea (not talking about the naval invasion) I had a lot of issues play as Japan because my troops couldn't find the path
Actually I have a couple videos on my channel that I've done in the last couple months about that, if you can't find them basically make sure you delete an order and just put a fallback line on the port you want them to go to
Hei man, Do you know if there is any way to remove the "Nine Power Treaty" for the China's National Spirits??
Can change my national focus exportation and i am starving of almost any raw material and at the end it will cost me the campaign, Japan (need to invade it though) is almost done, but Nazi Germany is looming and i have zero chances to beat the axis in this conditions .. and the Axis this time is huuuuuge, all Europe and almost the whole Siberia (managed to get a chunk of it though)..
Cant produce enough of any thing.. Maybe invading the USA but with this exportation focus ... even then I guess
Sorry for the long questions now and then, but i am learning a lot with your campaign and your answers, never ever find the way to hold Japan that way ... was magnificent indeed
I'm sorry but there's really nothing I know about China in the game, I've never even played as China. Sorry
@@dustinl796 Sorry man, messed up and posted whatever nowhere . I meant, i was for anther tutorial HiO
Thanks now i know how to win
Well tbh some of this stuff changed sense the mtg launch a few weeks ago, now you can drag ships to a new task force
Oohhh YOU DID ANSWER
I answer all (almost)
So far there are a few things that I like, and dislike about the new naval mechanics. I like the designing your own ships, and I like seeing the early carriers like the Akagi and Kaga classes for Japan having that distinct retrofitted battleship/cruiser-to-carrier look. However I don't like that now instead of just clicking the icon of some famous class of ship, and having that as a baseline hull to work with through the tech tree I have to build it myself with XP which is a tad bit annoying. Not only that, but from experimenting with the naval mechanics as Japan, I was surprised to find out that you no longer have any starting Battlecruiser templates (at least for Japan) because the Amagi class ship was removed from the build options which was my main early game ship to spam out as Japan because battlecruisers were a cheaper alternative to battleships for the resource starved country, thus you're limited to building resource expensive battleships or weaker light/heavy cruisers as a main battery ship.
Yeah I understand, in fact I agree with mostly what you said
Well, regarding the upgrading a famus ship thing, you *can* do that.
Just you know...
@@Luredreier I know you can, what I was trying to get at though was it a bit easier to just simply click the icon of the ship, over build it yourself. I've been getting used to the new features now though and don't find it as troublesome as before.
Can you convert battleships to aircraft carriers there many rl versions of this (HMS Glorious)
Nope, only can convert to that class
+@@dustinl796 What exactly do you mean with "no"?
I seem to recall that the tech shows examples of both cruisers and battleships being converted in the tooltip?
Well that's the way it's supposed to work but at least as of right now I haven't been able to get anything to convert over, I haven't been able to convert a battleship or a carrier to the opposite I've only been able to convert them to the same type of ship just with upgrades
+@@dustinl796 Are you sure that you had the right tech researched to create escort carriers when you where testing that out?
I believe the hangar deck is essentially a module you place on your ship, could be wrong though...
my 38 destroyer on patrol mission got fucked by Japanese navy and my 120 battle force that were on searching and destroy mission sit right next to it and didn't even fucking flinch. this DLC is so fucking tough.
To be honest I've heard a lot of people complain about ships not engaging, the submarines are way too powerful, I've heard a bunch of problems but I would assume over the next few days or weeks Paradox we'll get it all sorted
alternative name for the DLC: Micro(nano)management nightmare
Much worse than a nightmare