HOI4 Why You Should Convert All Your Factories (Hearts of Iron 4 Guide)
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- čas přidán 27. 04. 2024
- in another hoi4 guide im showing you guys a strategy on how to beat the allies very easily in multiplayer or singleplayer and how to play hearts of iron a little easier with this hearts of iron 4 tutorial. by swapping factories at certain times in hoi iv you as japan can out produce the united states, or as germany out produce russia and italy the uk, we add up the math behind this strat and see how it works and how to do the best hoi4 strat ever
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Good job doing research I love hoi4 and I like testing your results to see how they work for me. I was the same always thought converting factories would be a waste of time but I will give it a shot and see if it ends up with more factories overall in a given time period.
How did it work out?
this is literally the kind of garbage that makes this game suck. min/max sucks all the fun out of these types of of games, ESPECIALLY HOI4. yay... exploits....
It's kind of messed up how mostly the Soviets do strategy now in multiplayer games and end up with four hundred civilian factories before the war with Germany LOL
@@xordus You are free to play the game how you want it to be played
I realize I am pretty randomly asking but does anyone know of a good place to stream new series online?
This poland invasion is really triggering me
well i got pulled into war a little early, i was going to do in later on but they made a faction with lithuania while russia was justifying, they then went to war with estonia and i didnt wana let russia get all the resources so i went in early.
@@dustinl796 November 1939....
By 1939 you can steamroll through poland, what the fuck is going on in yours? xD
@@SweGamingNoobs Poland to strong for him xD
Your strategic problems dont justify your strange tactical decision and your tank movement. Especially if you want to show something "op" or working, you cant put such an utter failure in front of a video.
I’m a bit confused, it would’ve helped to see you actually doing the strat in the gameplay
yea your right. my bad
Same, can someone explain
Of course he will never do that :)
Yeah. I've never heard of this strategy. He spent more of the time explaining why you'd do it and how to get mobilization as fast as possible. But never actually showed what you do.
So like... Get Total Mobilization, Get War Economy. Then convert all your militaries to Civilians for a year, and then just build military and civilian in a rotation and....
Not even sure I got it.
@@tomwallen7271 i doubt its even a good strategy
Can't take you seriously when you're getting tanks encircled by Poland.
russia started manually justifying and it would only be a few weeks, i already invaded norway and had troops ready for sweedan to secure my tungsten supply for more med tank production, when they started justifying i had mostly defensive units left in germany and didnt want to send my army back unless completely necessary incase the allies got involved and then would sink most of the divs coming back,
@@dustinl796 so sorry for you having to justify under every comment :D - nice vid
@@isana5688 ikr feels bad
@@dustinl796 but.. but.... i don't understand, it went well.
Dustinl796 Videos
Yeah but that still doesn’t excuse you not microing your tanks, you watched them get encircled pepegahands
Wtf was that invasion of Poland holy...
Yea, soviet union decided to start justifying to take it so i had to rush for it before i was ready leavying most of my good divisions stuck in norway preparing for the invasion of sweeden
Dustinl796 Videos Molotov Ribbentrop and also why were your “good divisions” in Norway, Sweden ain’t that hard to beat
Well i didnt want to send only infantry as they were needed for frontlines in europe and they left my good divisions so i thought why not, get them in a month then get poland
@@dustinl796 you know that you could invade poland as soon as you got enough pp at the start,right ?
Yea...... i was trying to do a total historical game 😁
"It Just Works" -Dustinl796 after someone said 26 and 16 width doesn't work
thats what the germans said in ww2 when they asked how the americans with outdated equipment and troops can push them across the rhine, 'it just works' -German General in ww2 😂
@@dustinl796 The American Equipment was not outdated (It was pretty good by 1943) and Germany was under equipped, low on manpower, completely dominated in the sky. If you are going to make historical references like that, helps to learn some
When Germany annexes Austria and then Czechoslovakia and still it is not attacked by France or Britain and is getting stuff shipped from US - "It just works" - Adolf Hitler
Just make sure you leave historic a I on because this France Britain Alliance actually is willing to fight back 😂
Actually in my last three gameplay France always chose little Entante which put Britain on either nonaligned royal party allying with Germans or in my hands Fascist joining Germans and Japan had a birth of democracy by its own
This strat is especially powerful as Japan as they get a debuff to civ construction speed (under militarism). However I usually go to war in China in late 37 in order to grab their factories quick, meaning it probably would be better to do this after the conquest of China, as if you are a good player you can get it done by 38 and then you have three years of buildup before attacking the allies
Well im gonna try this out.
But here's a tip. Can you write it down somewhere so we can follow with numbers because its hard to follow while your just listening.
yea, ill try it next time
Here is my test. The results are underwhelming
docs.google.com/document/d/12K-tjyv2yeotsFihSJRX1F1yurNMrUzwz11zL9f-nWE/edit
You delete it
how does somebody who makes hoi4 "tutorial" vids, get encircled twice by poland and take 4+ months to capitulate them. honestly idgi
Most of my army was at norway preparing to invade sweeden but soviets started justifying on poland and i knew if ai got it they wouldnt give it, so i had to rush before i had most of my troops out of norway
@@dustinl796 but you had tanks capable of breaking though the polish lines and could have easily taken the major cites (such as krakow and lviv), and i dont get the soviet part, if you did the molotov-ribbentrop the soviets will definitely give you your part of poland, since it will give you a free war goal. It's of course IF you did it.
Something tells me it was an all welcome game with no rules, which is not a good place to test strats.
His "tutorials" are crap. He never proves or reasons anything of the stuff he tells. Most amusingly his story of the navies that should be divided into mini fleets.
Dustinl796 Videos why didn’t you pick some better footage?
Getting to War Economy as Italy is also possible from the start if you stay at war with Ethiopia and don't do any focuses until you get WE done.
Thats right. My bad
You forgot that some political advisors give bonuses to factory conversions as well.
whoever you made rage quit in a multiplayer game must have been the worst player of all time. i've never seen someone encircle themselves against the AI so easily.
as for the poland thing, russia started manually justifying and it would only be a few weeks, i already invaded norway and had troops ready for sweedan to secure my tungsten supply for more med tank production, when they started justifying i had mostly defensive units left in germany and didnt want to send my army back unless completely necessary incase the allies got involved and then would sink most of the divs coming back, and i get where the usa player was coming from, the axis kept wt down quite alot by 38 it was only like 12% so usa was stuck with 1 and a half production line, while as japan i was total mob making 4 factory lines
His invasions against AI are always trash, but when he plays in our discord server he can easily manage to carry games, and most people in our discord have over 800 hours
@@KamuiProductsInc everyone in your discord must have got 800 hours by either playing against the AI or leaving the game on overnight.
It's Just Milk I Swear i don’t think so, I’d say to play with us before forming that opinion, but suit yourself famo
@@KamuiProductsInc how about you record one of your sessions and post it.
I like that you point out how hard it can be to calculate things through all the variables in HoI4. The best sell for this strategy would be to have 2 different games, one where you build military , one where you convert. That would be a nice video and fun to see the exact numbers.
Is a good idea :)
soooo... I'm supposed to convert all military factories to civilian, then only build military factories until I get total mobilization, then convert the military factories back into civilians?
not every 1 but enough to where you feel comfortable to compete with other nations, and then build back mills and synthetics
No your supposed to build as normal (tbh I’d just build mils) until you get total mobilisation then convert all your mils to civs and start spamming out mills.
Let me know if i am wrong , but i calculated the total cons. Cost for building mills+convert vs civs+convert, and converting civs was 3/2 times faster. But again, i dont use convertion because i set a goal of 45 civs until end of 37/beginning of 38 and believe me if you invade nations or continue building civs for every 6 mils+2dockyards you will have about 150-200 civs. Also you will want to get inf.equipment 15-30 mils with concentrated industry and you will have 100k in storage while i had 200 divs as germany in 1939. I invaded poland and austria in 1937 and i accidently justify poland twice, but something happened, the world tension was so high SU went to war with allies because of latvia and because of this war, i invaded the whole eastern europe without any guarantees.
Dustin really makes good videos that make you think. Sometimes I don't use the buffs especially if I consider them almost game cheats which I generally tend to avoid. But this video again taught me some things that Dustin was not even directly trying to cover. And Dustin covers his concepts by doing the math so we have an idea on why a concept or strategy works. There is nobody else doing what Dustin is doing. Other people are now simply doing game play videos. It's nice to see that Dustin is still in effect doing in depth Tutorials on HOI4 Waking the Tiger and filling a huge gap in the understanding of this game. Thanks Dustin and hopefully you'll still be doing videos for Man the Guns when it comes out. And ignore any criticism since most of us don't feel that way and are simply grateful that you take time out to do these videos. :-)
Omg I’m so glad you zoomed in on the factories when you talked about their cost, it makes the video easier to follow and understand great work and thank you!
😉
That was sarcasm, wasn't it?
@@kalks4334 it wasnt idiot
@@zekodatstrat3468 How would you know?
@@kalks4334 i saw him do it?
dude why are you even showing gameplay like that on the start? that was bad, doenst really convince me that your "strats" are working
well i got pulled into war a little early, i was going to do in later on but they made a faction with lithuania while russia was justifying, they then went to war with estonia and i didnt wana let russia get all the resources so i went in early.
Dustinl796 Videos Then film some better gameplay dude. This just makes you look bad.
Or better yet show yourself doing the strat your explaining.
@@dustinl796 it's 1939 wtf
Dustinl796 Videos how can you be so garbage you aren’t ready for a Poland in 39? This video is clickbait and shit.
@@dylanb2990 Bro its a year so he is better by now..
good video, but a pretty sloppy invasion of poland
(sarcasam)
It would have been so much more efficient if he made one front line and hit go
You meant Uncle SarcaSAM
well i kinda got pulled into war by inviting estonia to the faction and didnt realize it at the time, i needed to save it to spread out the forces but my troops just finished fighting in the south
@John Osowski I don't mean that at all, I believe that the video was actually very good and was quick to the point, I was just making a joke about his invasion
@John Osowski he gave good points, he backed it up with facts and his tactics work (for me and him at least), do you really belive that you cant go into facts and analyse the game without having world class micro
Don't forget, as Soviets you get the focus 'Found the PCDI' which offers another 20% reduction in conversion.
there is also research
Sorry but no, these civilian factories will take ~3-4 YEARS to pay for themselves, it makes more sense just to build new ones unless you NEED them for trade. Also as a axis power it's much quicker to build military factories and acquire neighbouring countries, if you focus on military factories then you're wasting the whole advantage of being fascist early on, and the factories you claim from countries would be worth far more than your civilian factories. This isn't to mention that the equipment advantage that other countries would have by 1938/9 would be huge compared to your own.
If you do the math then 3-4 years to pay for themselves mean they're not going to achieve anything over building ones from scratch in that year or two of being active.
I tried this out in a game to see how the math holds up, by the time you get 62 civilian factories by making them normally you'll have 70 by converting, looks good so far, but now to get back to 28 military factories that you start with as Germany you need to have all your civilian factories continue to work until 22nd November 1937, whilst the building normal factories only takes until 29th October to be at the same point.
Simply put you're losing a whole month of building production, many, MANY months of military goods production all for the same gain as you'd have if you just made civilian factories from the get-go, the maths just doesn't doesn't hold up.
hooooly shit you're dumb as fuck
@@gaby9009 Tell me about it. Some people "can math" I see.
One thing that has always gotten me on trying to balance mil and civ factories is the limitations of slots in each province. More open up later on with industry upgrades and I believe infrastructure, but I've never been able to really get a good feeling on how many slots a province should get throughout the game.
Could you do a video on that? It actually kind of ties in with this because if you do convert all your factories, you have to ensure that you have the space available to build additional factories afterwards.
slots are mostly about the same, i always build civs in high infrastructure zones first and mills in lower sense they are alot cheaper to make
Dude people are always going to think a video is pointless but the good thing is other people think it has a point
I would really like it if you posted a video of a game where you did this. This video is fine but I think I'd comprehend this better if I had a proper example to look at.
Ill try to get some fresh gameplay where i do that
Aha! You did my idea! Props to you
ImperialGuardI TFGE This is a pretty popular strat from a reddit post
@@Alessandro-vl8bu Link me to the post please.
2 years ago
How about show us IN the video?
i probably will make one where i try it but i thought showing how to do it and explain it would work out better to help people find out if it works for themselves
I have just one thing to say.
War. War never changes!
Hmm..will try that in Japan single player. Anyway, don't let the people whose opinion get to you. If there is one thing I like your videos is that it help me to play the game from another angle. Also, the discussion in the comment section after your video can be heated and interesting. This is good because it will make HOI4 more interesting and increased the replayability.
I don't think anybody really complained, they only voiced their differimg opinion.
@@magatmilan8925 Yes..your right. Sorry for my choice of words. Will edit it right away.
@@magatmilan8925 Their differing opinion is wrong
@@nathantopham2835 Don't tell me José Díaz suddenly understands warfare and tactics, ah, what kind of José Díaz would that be XD
@@magatmilan8925 In a timeline where I didn't die of stomach cancer in Georgia
How to successfully inavde Poland: Literally mass all your troops into one army without a commander and give aggressive attack order.
FireflyDivision me during the first month of playing the game with cheats
I'm guessing the game has been patched since Oct 2018 (when the video was published) to cover this exploit, as it looks like this strategy is no longer valid. If you put the numbers in a spreadsheet, you'll see.
With Germany, under War Economy and with Walther Funk, you get a 30% boost to military factory speed and -20% to conversion costs. This brings your initial cost to build military factories down from 5538, and the cost to convert down to 7200. The total cost to build and then convert to civvy factory is 12738, which is *higher* than the base civilian factory cost of 10800.
If you research both of the "equipment conversion" technologies, you can get this down to 9538. That's a 12% savings over building civilian factories, but at the cost of 200 days of research, with the second technology available in 1939.
If you *also* go full mobilization, you can get the total civilian factory cost down to 8643; a 20% savings. Total mobilization is a hard sell for Germany, but total mobilization + an extra 200 days of research might be worth it for China or USSR for a 20% civilian factory cost cut.
I was hopeful for this video
Sadly I was disappointed. You do the maths but all you do is run down numbers and shout them into the viewers face.
Write them down, use text editor if you like but it's so important to make a small table and show what the actual benefit is.
It's especially important to show the difference between both strats with a simple example. That way the video makes sense and everyone can actually follow your arguments.
sorry, i didnt think at the time i needed to show on screen the numbers instead i was showing the build times from the game itself instead of writing them on screen for more accuracy
I agree that there could be some more evidence whether or not this works. I feel like people are being a bit harsh though...
Well, I've tried it with Japan when the video was uploaded, it's rlly op. This should be banned in MP. Dustin you are a sick boi
This has been known for a long time in mp, it works best as soviet union because you start on war economy (less conversion cost) and joins the war late with historical rules. This is how you get USSR with 300 civ and 300+ mils by 1941
Or you get war economy on march 10th because someone will be pedantic "but USSR starts on civ economy!"
@@magicaltomatoes What I always do is building infrastrcture in the provinces with most slots like Moskow or Stalingrad then building Civs on them once I got war economy 70 days later
How long did you keep converting the mill into Civs and your Strategy altogether
Seems like a risky move as Japan, sure your starting army is good enough to beat the AI but you would probably get wrecked by a good China player if you convert your mils?
I've seen the converting mills to civs a long time ago for a germany single player strat, then as a noob i tried it in an mp game, the host (italy) as soon as he saw that i was converthing, without asking a question just kicked me out.
it is really op in SP though, just makes the game too easy imo.
MavisLenya Why'd they kick you? Did they not allow it? Or did he just think you sucked?
@@willemgloudemans1442 i think he thought the converting strat was stupid, i guess. (It was a noob game for people below 100 hours anyways, everyone sucked.)
well thats why i said that thing in the end, the usa player who i was referring to apparently said the strat was a bad idea, and well you heard the story,
@@dustinl796 Well your strat is Bad in organized mp games with decent rules
jan osovsky what even is your problem? If you hate him why are you here.
Lol I remember when I was a noob and used the instant construction command, I tried to get a balance between civs and mils in every state
This strategy intrigued me as Germany so I did a quick and dirty 2 year test, while still getting focus', tech, and assigning advisors. By Jan 1, 1939 I had a total of 89 civs. That allowed me to build about 5 mills in 25 days. That's 73 mills in a year for a total 3 year plan. The snowball effect of this strategy sounds impressive, especially when you consider that all that equipment produced, except for support equipment, within that 2-3 year time frame are likely being replaced anyway. As a relative comparison, starting as Germany in August 14, 1989 gives you 74 civs and 66 mills, as to the projected 89 civs and 73 mills within the same time. Of course this doesn't foresee civs and mills you would likely receive from soon to be annexed territory or other potential benefits from a more micromanaged test. I'll have to look in to it more. I really don't want to restart my current game, lol. I do that too much.
A master at factory-tricks, a sucker at invading Poland.
Don't tell me that late 1939 is too early for a Poland-invasion, because it can be done right after the 1936 start with Germany, even for such a bad HoI4 player as myself.
russia started manually justifying and it would only be a few weeks, i already invaded norway and had troops ready for sweedan to secure my tungsten supply for more med tank production, when they started justifying i had mostly defensive units left in germany and didnt want to send my army back unless completely necessary incase the allies got involved and then would sink most of the divs coming back,
@@dustinl796 then why would you make that the video playing in the background, it makes you look like a joke. Nobody can take anything you say seriously when you are getting roflstomped by Poland.
What a great video!
thank you
Interesting, do you have footage of your strategy on Japan? I'm gonna try it regardless but it's nice to have something to follow, like timing and such.
Not right now, ill try to record some soon in a mp game.
This was really helpful! Thanks!
This strategy seems incredibly situational. Interesting video though.
thanks
What Dustin should have done here was show the math. With War Economy and the Political advisor, you would receive a -40% cost to civ conversion, which is already only 8100.
The new cost of 1 civ is 4860
Civs put out 5 production * 15 = 75 production per day
Lvl 10 Infrastructure puts you at 75 * 2 = 150
Add Trade Law, all Construction Tech, and any other "civilian construction speed", which can be anywhere from 60-100% let's say.
150 * 160% = 240
4860 / 240 = 20.25
You are spawning 1 civ, used for trade, used for industry, whatever, in < 20 days. And you can have multiple lines converting running.
This is situational, but if you really think about it, you find yourself in these situations almost every playthrough.
Early Game situation: Italy: Your First full 150 is going to War Economy already. That's a -20% making it 6480, which is getting nearly to half the cost / time of a new Civ. Especially considering early game when I don't have any Construction Speed bonuses anyways.
Then you do the exact opposite right before wartime, and Mils are even cheaper; we are talking under 10 days easy. Imagine a pool of 200+ civs with 150 converting to mils every 10 days. That's 30 a month.
This is a feature in the game for a reason and I think the ceiling of potential here is very high.
3erd and final comment,
how efective are rivers and how can you exploit rivers? can you maby do a quick 2 min video on that?
i was thinking about it, ill try it out tho
Razor The One The Light very effective
Hey Carly, I'm not as good as investigating like you do. Does this still work in the latest patches and updates, like No Step Back?
Imagine having your game of focus be a literal map, but not have any relevant gameplay to the title. Really impressive if you think about it
So I'm one of the people that gave you shit on the 16 / 26 video, but I gotta say, it seems to me like you have something here. I haven't gone into full detail to do the math to the T, but I did a test buildup of Germany (and it did seem to me that it was a quicker, stronger Germany by 1939), the MEFO bills really helped building back those mils too, so I was fielding my usual full army at the start of the war and was almost entirely self sufficient (managed to build up the refineries as well, still had to trade for Tungsten). I'll try it out with Japan & Italy as well, but I'm really encouraged by the results thus far.
Yes, decrease the full efficiency and production itself on fighter1 and then get cucked in France because redair - noob confirmed.
Or just add 1 spaa or line aa per 10 width to remove the penalties from not having green air
Hey man great video and sneaky. Strategy. And I did try that 16 26 divison on two different runs with different outcomes. As Russia using that tactic I didn’t do too well at first but then as art research took over it worked well and as Germany it did destroy really well and managed to break the Maginot line before I destroyed Poland completely and before I even enter Belgium xD so I was proven wrong even though the math doesn’t make sense but I am guessing there’s way more under the line and not looking into. These where both in SP regular on iron man no mods.
HyperActive the 16 div thing shouldn’t work as Russia cuz Russia is all about exploiting combat width and getting as many divisions in battle as possible. This is why the 16 div strat works so well as Germany cuz it makes each division essentially worth 1+1/2 divisions thus negating the enemy division advantage
_ _ it worked but like I said it was horribly ineffective early it wasn’t till a bit later like 43/44 that it paid off it did help stall and I did eventually keep adding divisions to them
Not to mention, converting early seems very strong for two other reasons...
1) Most the of early mils are going to be used on "soon to be outdated" production. I find I never really want anything built from 36-38 anyway, since it will be outdated. Sure, you can keep some mils for a bit of support equipment, or trucks, but by and large, most of my mils are irrelevant until I have the juicy 1940 research done.
2) Since you have fewer mils with this strategy, you don't waste civs trading for resources to build your "soon to be outdated" equipment.
I tried this strategy, and I was actually pressed for factory space with Italy come 1940. I had so much production, I had to push for concentrated industry just to provide enough room!
Love your vids mate, some things you've said have blown me away some I still think my way is better for me. Thinking about becoming a patreon.
glad to hear your enjoying the videos and they are helping some :)
@@dustinl796 can you make a 10$ tier? I was going to put on 10... but it's going to be from my wife's Facebook cuz I don't use any social media, even this youtube account is my wife's. So I don't want any names posted if that's ok.
@@dustinl796 Figured it out not sure if it's USD I'm Aussie.
Definitely trolling now.
Not at all, ive tried this multiple times now and the only time i lose so far was when the italy player didnt work on navy and uk with us invaded through raj and main islands around ports,
Well then let's see what the HOI4 forum thinks about this one.
At this point tbh, i know this works better than anything i think ive ever showed in terms of a guide.
Then there are the people who, between them, respond to nearly every post and have played loads of MP.
Here's the one on the previous vid: forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/is-16-26-combat-width-better-than-20-40-combat-width.1125442
Really? Because I trust others too. The Demi-moderator seems to play a lot, for example.
thx for considering Kaisserich mod :)
ur welcome :)
@@dustinl796 When did you consider it?
Well it worked for me. I had more civs as ussr in 1938. Later on I produced so much mils so germany cant even push through stalinline (Stalinline without any fortifications). Thanks for this vid.
Glad I was able to help :-)
@@dustinl796 can u give me ur steam name. I'd like to play with u
Well my Discord is in the description and you can message me on there and sometimes I play games on there with people
this might be worth it now that there are techs that drastically reduce conversion time (unless those techs are civs to mils, I'll have to check)
Pls make a spreadsheet
Ill show math on screen next time
You see, people are complaining because some of your claims really do not make sense (like the 16&26 width one). Don't you think if these "miraculous" strategies were really that great, somebody would have already figured those out? Also, you should actually show the factory conversion thing in some sort of a gameplay.
well people only figured out a couple months back about how op air superiority is, hoi4 is like gta5, there are so many combinations of things you can do on this game it will take a long time before people figure out how op things are, another example. i did a video recently about a base 34% research bonus as usa, which has become a common strat now but i only figured it out a couple months ago
Hey so Ive been trying to set this up for a Japan mp game, when do I go for the china war if Im good with going late? Also, can i build dockyards in the beggining, or just improve the infrastructue (loads of ships to refit)
Im not sure if i understand. If you are on war economy you got military factories cost 5760 and Military Factories can be converted into Civilian Factories for 7200.
This means that civilian factory by this tactic cost:
5760+ 7200= 12 960
Regular civilian factory cost 10 800 its clearly less.
Have i something missed? Pls help
Alright Im someone who gave you critisim. Let me first start of that this is a good video which is well supported with numbers. If you make an excel sheet with numbers or numbers in general it makes it easier for the viewer to understand. At this moment, there is a PDX post about your video "26 width - 16 width". There is a lot of debate about the content of you videos. Today, someone ran the numbers with penalites etc and game to the conclusion that in some situation they are very good, whilst in other they perform significantly worse. The bottomline is that the one on the forum made a detailled calculation which supported his point, while you incorrectly explained the combat system and had no nummerical back up. I can recommend Spirit of the Law to see how he works with numbers ingames. I think his explaination of formulas is pretty easy to follow and would work great in your video's. I hope that you can do something with my advice!
Cheers!
Well i get your point and agree there is not much to back it up which is why i said in that video i dont know why these are so good and think its maybe because im fitting more soft attack in when attacking 40"s but i see your poiny
I really like your videos, and appreciate the work you put into them. Your channel is the only up-to-date HOI4 channel I've found that I can stand listening to, and I find your guides very helpful. Keep it up, and don't let the haters get you down.
thanks, really appreciate it 😉
I wouldn’t say they’re haters, they’re just disproving him. Everybody can be wrong including Dustin and the commenters but in the end we all support and like his channel
@@Alessandro-vl8bu Making an argument against someone, and saying they are wrong is not disproving anything. That is just making an argument, which is exactly what Dustin is doing when he makes a video that challenges the meta. His videos show other things to try that has worked for him. That is no reason for some commentors to get hostile, which is who I'm calling "haters". They just don't agree with his idea, so they attack it instead of having an actual discussion as to why it may or may not work.
@@RangerOne_NC you don't seem to understand what makes an argument AN ARGUMENT. Dustin didn't make an argument in his 16-26 video, he made a claim, then he failed to bring any argument that would back up said claim except something along the lines of: "trust me guys, it really works, I made it work in my gameplay of which there is no recording of, and here, I'll just show you some single player footage without going into details, without checking/setting the AI templates to the correct width, etc."
There's a book out called The Art of The Argument. Funny thing is, it was written by a youtuber. Maybe go pick yourself up a copy, eh?
@@vahleeb Okay, I misspoke when I said that Dustin was making an argument for something, and that was my mistake. He was doing no such thing. He was showing an example of something he discovered (16 & 26 width divisions) in his games, and showed it working. He explicitly stated that it may not work for everyone, and may only work in specific cases.
The point I was attempting to make is that other people, the commentors, are NOT making arguments against his video, but simply dismissing it out of hand because it goes against common thinking of division widths. My point is that THEY should be making the argument against it, because in his video it's obviously working, IN THAT SITUATION. He stated that he isn't sure WHY it's working, and it makes no sense, but it WAS working. I've tried it in my own games, and I've had success with it too.
So if you think it's ridiculous, show an example of why, and show it getting it's ass kicked. Show how it's easily beaten.
Hey guys! I had a great game where I brought Wilhelm back to Germany, killed Mussolini, created alliance called "Holy Roman Empire" with: Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Romania, Austro-Hungary, Yugoslavia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland. Together we destroyed Commies, created Belarus and Ukraine, Freed Caucasus nations and gave Siberia to Italy. Best game I ever had XD.
Late to this video. However, I have a theory on the smaller width divisions performing so well.
Everyone is caught up on 40 width but I agree smaller divisions often seem to outperform.
The reason is reinforcement. A 40 width takes half the combat width in a simple combat. Thus, when it is forced to retreat, it takes away half of your firepower in the battle until it is reinforced. A 20 width, conversely, only removes a fourth of your firepower.
Thus, attacking with 4 20 width divisions theoretically gives you more stats over the course of a battle.
This obviously depends on reinforce rates to some degree. However, I think it may help to explain why we see smaller width divisions outperform the 40 widths that everyone loves.
Moral of the story: always go for the War Economy.
Or total mob 😉
Dustinl796 Videos
Total mob usually is for countries with large manpower pool like China, Soviet Union or (rarely) German Reich.
By the way, my father once told me about factory conversion in Soviet Union (because my country is post-socialist one):
Soviet Union had tons of cigarette factories. All cigarettes had 5.45 mm in diameter. Some may ask why but here's an answer: when Soviet Union goes to war, a number of those factories are being converted into ammunition factories because during that time a standard caliber was 5.45x39 mm for AK-74, thus those above mentioned factories can be converted within only 2 (!) hours.
Sorry that i keep asking but when Germany min maxing?
Probably never, truth to be told he'd get a lot of flame for it.
well the problem is with the save, i apparently had some mod on that is causing it to crash when loading the save and dont know what it was
I just started play H.O.I.4 last week and I was just watching another H.O.I.4 video where they said, “Civs”. I replayed it and was like, oh civilian factories. But then they where talkings about converting military factories and stuff so I went, “Wait what? I didn’t know there were mills in this game. Maybe it’s a man the guns thing.”
If you check my playlist I have a lot of guides explaining several things about the game. In regards to what you're asking though yes there are military factories in the game. Do you use civilian factories to either convert other civilian factories to military factories or you build them by using your civilian factories, in the construction tab the button beside civilian factories is military factories
0:48 that Chinese intonation surprised me
People complain because it goes against what they know,dont let the maginot liners bring down blitzkrieg;)
No, people don't complain, they voice their different opinion.
@@magatmilan8925 true and opinions are also like arseholes so
@@michaelbadenhorst4063 So you defend a youtuber who voiced his opinion to the public about a strategy, but condemn commenters who did the same?
I could only really find a single mean comment on his recent videos, the others are really just people with other opinions.
@@magatmilan8925 I never specifically condemned anyone we all have arseholes all our opinions mine included are varying degrees of shitynes my original comment just said to basically ignore the others opinions,sorry if you took it the wrong I dont see it as something worthwhile enough to be offended about
@@michaelbadenhorst4063 But ! Maginot Line was a good Idea !!!
You just never seem to run out of terrible ideas. Allies hold France and u lose game in 1940. Then you say that your stubid ideas work always for you for some reason, but you never show any competetive multiplayer concent and hide behind your singleplayer ego.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Good to see that even here there are competent and intelligent players
what are you talking about allies hold france and i lose in 1940? ive never lost to a french ai and in mp ive played germany a handful of times in mp and pushed france each time, granted the other day france held me for a couple weeks until our hungary got us air superiority then we advanced. and most of my strats have been developed in multiplayer games and apply to those first and sp secondly
He means that you damage your short term Mil count which damages your ability to take out France, UK and the Soviet Union early on.
And it is never a proof that it worked in MP, as apparently your enemies are worth trash in the game
Here's the thing I found about your strategy. Of course if you convert MICs into CICs you will end up with a better overall economy and I 100% agree with that because of the snowballing effect of getting CICs early. However, the key is that even during peacetime MICs are still very useful. By converting MICs you not only decrease your production rate flatly, you also make sure that when you eventually do start getting MICs the efficiency of your production lines are extremely low. Especially as Japan, which needs to fight a war in China before 1938 often times. This loss of production can cripple your early push. I find the same concept applies with the Soviets. While I can expect an additionally 20-30 factories by mid-1941 as the Soviets by converting 20 of my beginning MICs to CICs, I end up with a significantly weaker airforce against the Axis 3k-4k vs. 6k-8k and also 20% less divisions. Personally, I think this strategy can work if you plan on fighting to 1943+ but you better be prepared to fight a much stronger enemy military in 1939-1941.
if you play inteligantly you can easily catch up on mills, "easily" every game ive tried it in mp all you need to do is as germany get your annex focuses and get some mills that way and even more mills
The overly complicated Poland invasion
How many aryans died in that invasion?...
how do you know? ;)
@@dustinl796 so... how many?
Much more than in real invasion
The entire Polish army and half of the German army. So 1.5 M ish?
@James Reilly dumbass, Wilhelm said Germans are LIKE Huns when speaking about the Boxer Rebellion
Ok so I am going to sit down and do the math cause I think you have the conversion values wrong in the vid. It is 9000 for mil to civ and 4k for civ to mil.
So the cost of a civ is going to be 10800
the cost of a mil for germany is 7200 but the extra bonuses to construction amount to at most 45% bonus construction speed over civs. from war eco + Mefo bills.
this means it takes the equivalent of 7200/1.45 which is 4965
Then we add the conversion bonus of which we get a -20% cost and at most a - 20% cost and 20% speed buff for a total modifier of 7200/1.2 which is 6000
This gives us a total of 10965 which is more than the civ construction cost. If germany is on total then it is slightly cheaper due to a extra 10% construction buff and 10% cost reduction.
Might work as other nations but not the germans.
Oh i agree, the goal of this strat is to build up civs quick to get a slight edge over the allies and then start building as you wish
Unfortunately it is better to just build civs in that case I will have to do the math for japan but it seems you need a large mil construction speed buff or a lack of civ buffs.
@@jedijackattack3594 did you factor in the pre-built 28 mils you start out with as Germany? you're trading out 1936 rifles for extra civs early on. you'll be caught up on production by 1940 latest and then speed ahead. can't be bothered with the exact numbers since you'd need to convert everything in production output points, but since the meta is civs early then mils is better long term for production than mils outright, it follows that getting to that sweetspot of civs earlier must be even better in the long run.
You're missing that the fast conversion to civs nets you a lot more build power initially, counteracting the increased cost. So the net result is that you can build a lot faster.
@@vahleeb no I didn't but I don't think the trade is worth it especially in mp where you need to have at least 15 factories as Germany making fighters from moment 1 due to air meta. When I tried a play through I found it to have little or no bonus since I was slower to get Austria and the rest of the claims. It is also likely off set by the cost of having to rebuild the factories in the first place. I can do some more maths later along with some testing to see but I don't have a good feeling it will be worth it.
I should also add my result assuming getting the war industrialist or else the cost is even higher.
4:07 *D E M O N E T I Z E D*
nah, only if i say something youtube determines is bad, 😉
Go***els and Hi**ler good then ;)
Hey Dustin, Funny story here about a Bad Italy:
>no mic, no attempt to communicate with rest of axis (i was Germany at the time)
>goes afk for the first year, didn't even do the victory in Ethiopia.
>1939, he has not updated his troops and more than half army is in Libya and not on his ports...
>first 3 months of the war go by, he leaves the game. (Had to get someone in the game to rejoin.)
>our faces when Italy didn't even research any tech, Am serious... absolutely no tech, not even electronics 1.
>Italy didn't even build any industry...
>most of Italy's navy is already sunk.
>we(me and new Italy) had to evacuate Africa to save mainland Italy from french and British invasion. Rip Africa campaign.
>Literally had to hold the war on the German back the entire war. (New Italy put his entire army on port defense because his army was bad)
>Mfw Finland was a more competent power than Italy
>Mfw me and Finland tag teamed soviets and won anyway
>Mfw Allies raged when soviets capped.
Tbh that was the worst player i have ever seen, no industry, no tech, and no competence... must've wanted to be a historical Italy.
a couple months ago i had one pull his entire army out of everywhere giving up africa and his ports to try to invade spain and he got encircled by 10 moto divisions in southern france -_-
cant take your words as truth when you cant cap poland in 1 week smh
I tried this as Japan and you will see noticable changes in 1940, but your army will be under equipped, easy for other players just to invade you.
russia started manually justifying and it would only be a few weeks, i already invaded norway and had troops ready for sweedan to secure my tungsten supply for more med tank production, when they started justifying i had mostly defensive units left in germany and didnt want to send my army back unless completely necessary incase the allies got involved and then would sink most of the divs coming back,
This was a good vid! You made your research, did the calculations to back up your claims and seem pretty convincing.
Don't worry about the negative comments, they are always gonna be there. Just do your thing.
I for example DID try out your 16 / 26 width templates out myself & tried to compare them to 20/40 and it seems that you are correct. I was not able to 'shred' people but in my 2 almost identical runs, I got further into russia with 26 width divisions. And I never cared about some stupid comments.
That being said, maybe there would have been less negative comments if you would have done either more math, or if not possible, just 2 runs with Germany to compare how well they did haha
24 is better than 26
The point isn't 26 or 40 vs whatever the AI has - which is better? The point was can an army of 26 take out an army of 40 width? With equal technology + doctrine level, it can't.
@@vahleeb Yes it can. If we assume for example 50 mil factories producing guns & arty however you like (that's cause 26 width will need more artys) you will end up with way more 26 width divisions which together will be able to outperform the 40 width divisions.
I tried it.
adfa afasd let me see if I get this straight: your claim is that the same ammount of equipment, distributed into 26 width on one side and 40 width on the other, the 26 side will win out? With everything else being equal? I know you can't equalize on guns or on artillery because 7-4 will never match the numbers of a 20-0, but let's say we equalize on production output points. Is that your claim?
@@vahleeb Yes that is my claim exactly. 40 width divisions being 14 - 4 divisions, vs 26 width divisions being as dustin showed, 7 - 4 divisions.
Same production capabilities.
Whats discords do you play in? I want to see who you try your strats against lol
tbh, i mostly play in small servers where people wont know who i am. i use fake names sometimes like johnson atol, or joe blake, things like that
Nice zealous, we're even laughing to the same stuff, lol.
One thing that I think you'd need to watch out for if you're planning on converting civilian factories to military ones is that, should strategic bombers manage to strike at your infrastructure, then you'll have fewer civilian factories available to repair the damage done. Depending on how few civilian factories you have available, you might not even be able to recover from such attacks.
Should you still wish to undertake such a strategy, then I'd recommend either limiting your fighting to less developed regions that are unlikely to field strategic bombers (such as Africa), or investing more heavily on anti-air emplacements and heavy fighters to counteract strategic bombing attempts.
Ai doesnt specificly target industry and most mp servers ban strat bombers
@@dustinl796 Then why ban strategic bombers if they're designed for countering this "exploitative" playstyle? Shouldn't this factory conversion "exploit" be banned as well?
Also, what's the point of building heavy fighters over regular fighters if the very units that they're meant to counter (strategic bombers) are banned?
I'm asking these kinds of questions because I'm seriously questioning the reasonings why multiplayer servers would want to ban something if there's, theoretically, ways to counter them in a practical sense. Maybe it's because the devs are playing different games than what players are playing because they have a better understanding of the game's mechanics than the players themselves (when, ideally, the skill gap should be much lower)?
Tried your 16 and 26 width division, just defeated Germany as Netherlands
You can do that easily with 20 width divisions. 16 and 26 divisions are ineffecient and his video has been debunked in the comments.
Hahaha, those ruthless comments complaining about your "invasion of poland" even tho you're trying to teach them something but they have to be foolish about it anyways. This was a great guide.
thanks, as for the poland part i got draged into war cause russia was justifying and needed to get it before them
@@dustinl796 Ye, i get it, i dont mind about it :P
@@dustinl796 Yeah most of them focused on Polish part instead of real value of this video
The point the people were trying to make about the invasion was that you were trying to show an OP strat for Germany, yet Germany in 1939 is plenty OP and should have steamrolled Poland.
I have tried this with germany 3 times I changed to war economy once Rhineland focus was complete. Hired advisor who gives conversion bonus. Then I converted mils to civs till 1938 I kept only 8 mils all of them for inf. Equipment then I started construction of mils and synthetic refinary from Jan 1939. I started war on 30 aug 1939 I had 8 10 more factories every time. My civ count was around 130 I could use 105-108 for construction. I know this concept sounds stupid but in long run it gives better result.
interesting, I think I'll give this a try
hope it worked well
Does this still work in man the guns or la resistance
Seems like the soviets have another advantage: Peoples commisariat of defense.
You know that stupid little focus before you can go down the anti policies?
Yeah that adds another 20 % conversion speed
In multiplayer this is great, if you play vs ai on hardestdifficulty it might be great too.
On normal it is pointless.
Because you just start wars at 1936. Normal is broken.
what? you never start wars in 36 as any axis nation, justification alone would take almost a year for every nation
I love how for the thing where he’s explaining why you can’t prove the 26 width thing does or does not work with maths he gives two examples that can easily be worked out with maths.
Face it hoi4 strategy is all about stacking the bigger bonuses than your opponent. The strat you displayed here works because the maths work, the 26 width works because the maths works in certain scenarios (I’d imagine that 26 width is better in the same way that 40 width is better, but it naturally lacks the versatility of 20 width). You can’t that something that works under a certain scenario with certain bonuses works all the time just cuz you can’t be bothered to prove it.
i have proven it, and many people have tested it. like i said and you said, no one stat works and only thing you can do is see what does and doesnt work
Well, when I'm playing Hoi4 I'm always increasing my industrial power this way: when I have some free Civilian Factories, I'm starting producing new Civilian Factory, One Military Factory, one Dockyard and I'm increasing my infrastructure level in places where it's a bit lower, until I get level 10 infrastructure everywhere.
Am I doing the right thing?
i say civs, then decide what you need
Respect dude ✌️
;)
I always build civilian factories, then when i,m going for war i converting, its works.
Regardless of what ppl say you give me a lot of ideas!
glad to help :) thanks
Great vid I subbed and want to see those templates
If anything it just makes it more difficult to fight china as Japan as they have more time to build up while you have little to no military factories.
the idea is build normal like you would and when you get war economy or total mob if you still need more civs then covert mills to civs sense you will get bonuses for all factory conversions and a bonus for building mills, this way you get civs at a cheaper cost because of the -10% - -30% conversion and mill construction cost
@@dustinl796 Oh okay I missed the "build up like normal" beforehand part. How many of my mils should I turn to civs? Quarter? Half? All of them?
Thanks for the reply,
Shouldn't you wait until you get war economy or total mobilisation before you starting converting mils to civs? or should you just start converting from the beginning of the game?
Start converting from the beginning, and then once you get partial mobe or War economy then start building the Mills back after you have a good enough amount of civsthat you're comfortable with
Very smart monologue in the end regarding the general communities oppinion.
It got popular to know everything and to say that everything is bullshit but the meta.
I was thinking games games are there to be explored.
Really? thats the worst argument ever... it's something that any statistics class will fail you for. Furthermore its hypocritical when the entire argument for his strats ARE THE NUMBERS... In fact my main complaint about his videos is that he only takes into account numbers that support his case while dismissing the ones that disagree with him. By all means try things out, I encourage it! Meta slavery is dumb... but his argument is not good.
well the reason i went so into the numbers is because like i said in the start people kept complaining about the strats and wouldnt even try them. but the people who did agreed that they dont make sense but work. thats why i pointed out the thing in the end
@@janehrahan5116 I see your point. If i do understand you right you wanna say his videos are biased?
I can understand that. After all he goes through the tedting and then builds his oen oppinion. Is it therefore the golden truth? Not necessarily..
But it fits his playstyle and apparently it has worked for him.
About the statistic class you mentioned. I personally love stats but there are things that outrule these laws.
F.ex. the bumble bee. Calculate its wingsize with its weight and every physics student would tell you i CAN NOT fly. Still it does.
I mostly disagree with his oppinions of his videos. But they open up a new ways for me to look at the games elaborations and functions. That is why i like his videos.
Biased oppinions on tactics ans strategies are common in war games. And nothing to be ashamed of.
The only thing bias is bad is politics imo.
So his videos are ok in my book.
@@AdrianDeer Umm. Thats wrong. A bumblebee absolutely can fly based on the physics... thats an old urban myth that has been debunked by multiple studies...
-_-
Your prob not gonna see this but for how long are you supposed to do the conversion for Japan?
When should you start building mills like how many civs do u need
This is the trick. We aren't Dustin. We all play differently. I'm more the defensive infantry and mech pusher. However, even if his style doesn't work for me, there is a plethora of information gained on the game itself which allows me to hone my skills. So in conclusion, whether it's right for you or wrong there's a lot of data that is displayed and can be used for your own ideas. Thanks, Dustin, subbed.
good point
Think you need to explain this in a bit more detail ... tried this as Japan and did not see the point in this at all.. I mean , how long am I supposed to hold of the war against China due to lack of military equipment for my army? I rushed down the focus mcthingy to get total mob , but still my factorys were not converted til mid 37. After the factories are converted , then what? do I keep building civs in order to try and snowball even more later on , or do I go for mils ?
the idea is build normal like you would and when you get war economy or total mob if you still need more civs then covert mills to civs sense you will get bonuses for all factory conversions and a bonus for building mills, this way you get civs at a cheaper cost because of the -10% - -30% conversion and mill construction cost
@@dustinl796 Oh , so IF you need more civs. Maybe I interpretated it wrong then . They way I understood was , say if playing as Japan, Convert mils -> Civ While Rushing total mobilisation ( Focus tree ) , continue converting mils -> Civ --> Use your newly "built" up civ industry to make more industry.
Wat about UK is it good with this strategys and in this strategy do you actually make your mils all to 0? Im really curious with this strategy and since you mathematically calculated it Im ok with that so pls reply it really help me alot
Noo!... trust me dont do this strat unless your not going to go to war with a major for about 4-5 years and you can be on war economy/ total mobilization in the first year
Oh okay but do you really convert them all to 0? I tried it out and its actually really helpful
Jo. Ima new guy here. Wannad to ask and kinda tip one thing. Best and only land doctrine for guys with so-so manpower is firepower superiority, right?
if you need manpower as a minor more than attack then mass assault, if you plan on having enough manpower but want breakthrough and attack then you use sup firepower
I think there needs to be a balancing mechanic for war enconomy and total mobilization for instance if you go to war economy too early and stay on it for far too long you start to suffer gradual reduction to your war support and political stability.
i totally agree with this
My new tactic
Bing,