HOI4 Fleet Composition Guide (Hearts of Iron 4 MTG Expansion Tutorial)
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- wondering how to correctly set up a hoi task force groups or fleet compositions after the hearts of iron 4 man the guns update? well now with hoi4 mtg im going to cover different ways to set up and create hoi4 task forces for man the guns and how to use them in this mtg tutorial guide showing off navy templates post hoi4 man the guns
🙂To See My Story and Support Me Check me Out on Patreon
/ dustinl796
Check out more amazing videos here 👉 goo.gl/Nz9vKs
Social links to stay up to date on new videos😀
►👊Twitter / topgunguy123
►Instagram bit.ly/1Rx03LM
►Discord / discord - Hry
5:14 patrol group
8:22 light battleship group
So I can come back and see these later
Ok
Ok
5:48 CV Group :)
Ok
Ok
Why does the new Japanese navy have glass hulls?
To see the old Japanese navy.
XDDDD
the account name....the picture....the comment....its all perfect
richard fredrickson I think it’s used for a lot of countries
thatguyofdark stop your making me blush
get a room :p @@lot2973 & that guy of dark :p
1:10 subs
2:45 convoy escort
5:10 patrol group
5:48 carriers
8:18 battleships
Build 4 carriers spam out BB's and CA's and have 4 times as match screens as you have capital ships and you basiclly got a good strike force.
I have a main strike force consisting of 700 ships, is that good? 😂
Guys do you know what mod he uses in the video???? if so please tell
@@nickthegreek_f.t8848 I don't think he used any mods but I'm not sure.
@@nickthegreek_f.t8848
I think this is the DLC Man The Guns
@@nickthegreek_f.t8848 Its not a mod, its a DLC called "Man the guns"
10:50 The word you looking for is 'Ratio' d: keeping the same ratio is the most important part.
Anyway good vid, thanks dustin !
Loving the new naval rules. Finally a reason to keep all those old tier 1 destroyers. Refitted with good radar, sonar, depth charges and dual purpose 5"38 gun they make excellent anti-sub frigates while newer DDs can be used with carrier task forces. They're cheap and quick to build.
So...like normal...Comment before watching video so there is no bias. Advice on how to build ships, look at what you need at the moment, and prioritize like so:
Emergency need(what you really need and can't go without, for example if the enemy is spamming submarines, you need depth charges, do not go light on them, but you might not need the AA gun)
Production cost(try to keep it as low as possible, do you really need the small % increase in damage for the possible 2 month delay on the battleship?)
Speed(try to keep it as high as possible, better speed is always better, but going overboard could lead to very expensive ships)
Armour(yes, i prefer speed over armour, it gives more utility)
Basically everything else(the system is made to be very moldable and changable, if you want the next level of fire control, get it, no one is going to judge, but they do not make that much of a difference in the short term)
Submarines, which are task forces and admirals controlling submarines only, no other ships. You can use them for escort of convoys, raiding convoys and attacking small fleets(i dont really recommend the last one, there is a way more effective navy for that)
Destroyers. Destroyers, destroyers and when in doubt, more destroyers. Cheap, reliable, multi-functional. Mines, torpedoes, anti-sub, AA. You divide them into 3 distinct tasks. Minelaying, self explanatory. Torpedo escorts, they travel with the main grand sea battle fleet, and help contribute to killing big ships while protecting your big ships, those tend to die a lot, so just add like 5 million of them in production, no need for anything else, armour of your choosing and max torpedoes. Patrol fleet, they, combined with cruisers, are the main engagement fleet, they do not spend that much fuel(especially if you dont add that many cruisers), you arm them with AA guns, light guns, depth charges and all of that fun jazz.
Cruisers. Bread and Butter of a fleet. Destroyers on steroids, but expensive. Use with caution, over-reliance on them can leave you weak to specialized fleets. I could write a 2 page report on what cruisers can be used for. Remember when I had 7 destroyer types, yeah, that is nothing. Cruisers, cruisers and more cruisers. Have a couple of specialty Cruisers, AA heavy, Screen Murdering Machine, Torpedo/Light gun mix-up. Heavy cruisers aren't that needed, but can help if your main fleet is repairing, basically back up capital ships, keep one or two at hand.
Battleships, big, heavy, badass, enough damage to sink a whole fleet, also a bit slow. 2 types, Cruisers and Standard Ships. They are kinda slow to catch up and deal with screens, so most of the time you should just arm them with AA guns and Heavy guns, and some utility. Unlike before they aren't that good when massed.
Carriers, oh my favourite type of ship. Bigger isn't sometimes better, try to balance them out, if you can produce a lot of planes and ships, you can forgo armour and go for extra space. If you can produce more ships but can not afford that much planes, maybe you should consider not making carriers. But if you are dead set on making a carrier, give it AA guns, and a small deck size and cover it with screens. If you can produce enough planes but not enough ships, go for armour and naval bombers.
As for task forces,
You have
Minelaying(destroyers)
Convoy escorts(submarines and/or lightly armed destroyers)
Convoy raiders(submarines and/or lightly armed destroyers)
Convoy escort destroyers or C.E.D.(destroyers and cruisers, this is when you want to give some casualties to players, but do not want to waste fuel or threaten your main fleets)
C.E.D. hunters(your main fleet on standby, battleships/cruisers, light carriers, cruisers, destroyers, when someone is threatening your sea zones, you attack with this fleet, supported by ground based planes, mostly a defensive task force)
Naval Supremacy(this fleet is parked in a sea zone, and made to scare everyone and everything, heavy battleships, heavy carriers, a lot of cruisers and some utility destroyers, this is the fleet you do actual blockades with and actual beach landings, some ships can be taken from the C.E.D. hunter task force, mostly an offensive task force, expect losses, and expect a huge loss of fuel, lots of planning and strategizing)
(please correct me/give further advice if needed)
Yeah that is about it, I think, on with the video
These tips actually helped me more than the video itself
Pretty good tips right there.
Make a video this helps a lot
"You can do a trick, because carriers aren't considered Capital ships if you do not add hull space, you can produce a couple of them using 10 dockyards and then quickly convert them" How are you doing this? you can't produce any of the carrier hulls without at least one hanger space added in
not calling bullshit or anything - I just can't figure out how to replicate this!
Thx for this, I really needed this
5:51 for carrier 8:21 for BB task force
;)
Thx god for this. Now i love the navy in hoi4 even more.
Nice vid , think I came to around the same conclusion when it comes to naval comps. Tho I am waaaaaaaay to lazy to have that many different kinds of ship types in my navies and production. Dont really play MP , but seems to work fine in SP. Jack of all trades ftw!
I do the following:
*Submarine Task Force:* 5 to 10 subs and 50 subs in a fleet. Build level III or IV subs with radar. Each little task force will get in its own combat which is desirable (gets more enemy convoys engaged and stuck for awhile). Also if something goes wrong there's less subs to lose at once.
*Patrol Task Force:* 4 to 5 light cruisers. Build these with good quality and make them "jack of all trades" ships. I also use these for commerce raiding, attacking destroyers (trying to get my subs), long range escorting (anti-sub), and generally any smaller action I need them for. Light Cruisers are very flexible and don't burn that much fuel (but still vulnerable). Fast and flexible. This is the only task force I micro.
*Battle Group:* a few battleships and heavy cruisers with about two to three destroyers per cap. This is an early strike group used to attack enemy navies head on or to do shore bombardments. I make the destroyers older models with a focus on AA and torpedoes. In late game this unit becomes mostly a shore bombardment and invasion force escort. I usually don't build new battleships but rather upgrade old ones with better radar and dual purpose secondaries (these upgrades are reasonably priced unlike engines or new main guns). Powerful but slow and vulnerable to airpower.
*Carrier Battle Group:* up to four carriers, maybe a couple heavy cruisers focused on AA and duals (lessens the damage focus on carriers and provides some heavy/light firepower), and 2 to 3 destroyers per cap. I like better faster destroyers in this one and this fleet is designed to be longer ranged and faster. No big weakness but fuel, research, and resource intensive. Late game for all except a few majors.
*Minelayer Task Force:* about 10 old subs setup for minelaying. VERY cheap and doesn't kill many enemy ships directly but slows them down and gives you advantage in a few sea regions.
*Minesweeper Task Force:* about 5 very cheap destroyers setup for minesweeping. Useful if the enemy lays mines.
*Escort Group:* I've mostly played as Axis minors thus far (with MTGs) so I have not worked this out yet. I'm attempting to make escort destroyers and escort carriers but these don't really exist in the game. Cheap destroyers and escort carriers are the closest match. However, cheap fleet destroyers are still 15 knts too fast, WAY TOO short ranged, and too expensive to match real life escort destroyers. Light carriers in game also do not match escort carriers. I usually use late model destroyers because of their increased range focused on depth charges, radar, and active sonar. Perhaps a light scout cruiser (focused on float planes) and a light carrier may be added.
I focus on building better subs and light cruisers first. Next I go for upgrading my existing caps and building carriers. Last I go for building better destroyers and carriers. Very last just for fun I build better battleships. I go thus route thus far with minor nations I fight against the allies with (like Brazil or Turkey).
Thank you very much for this tutorial. It's the best I've watching
Your video quality s really good, I am surprised you don’t have 500k subscribers.
It's mostly because I don't make clickbait or at least the best I can and instead just make guides and let people find me based on the content :-)
Thanks man these guides really help.
Glad to hear it 😁
Super useful, thanks!
hi, good video thanks for this :)
what would you recommend for you uboat pack of 50, you send them on mission in only one seazone or multiple seazone ? thanks
Thanks you for your Videos, mate.
building light AA cruisers seems pointless when they cost almost 4x as much as an AA destroyer and 2 AA destroyers will have more AA attack value then a single CL -AA
armor value though, destroyers get rolled by cruisers
@@ZholikOW your missing the point of building specialized ships, you arent building them to fight enemy ships your building them for AA coverage, plus he only put level 1 armor on his CL - AA so its not like that thing is gonna be a tank. to me it seems better to have more DD - AA ships that are cheaper with more AA while also building something like his Cleveland CL to smash smaller screens. Plus its far more forgiving to lose a destroyer in a battle then losing a CL, despite the obvious production cost advantages the DD has over the CL, when the first DD - AA goes down you still have another one firing.
Yeah but also fuel plays an important part, however I will admit on the other video I did make a mistake with the armor for the light Cruiser it should be higher
also has to do with more firepower in the same spot at the same time. 2 DD's might not be in the SAME spot. in a fight
@@Snowarc yeah thats true, but dont you think it would be better to have essentially 4 destroyers compared to 1 CL, that gives you almost double the AA power spread across 4 ships. This is a genuine question I'm not trying to argue you here.
I once played without bothering to construct battleships, cruisers, and carriers. I just built destroyers for patrol along with the navy Italy starts out with and then built around 250 subs. I decimated the merchant navies of 6 players because they did not bother to build convoys until they realized they had none left haha.
Thanks Dustinl, great video! Really got no idea now I need so many subs in one task force, got used to the old 8-10 sub fleets. Also, how many minesweepers or minelayers do I need for a fleet/region?
It all depends on the enemy fleet size, if the enemy navy is 50+ ships id say 1 minelayer and 1 mine sweeper per 20 ships
Are the enemy doing any mine sweeping?
If not you'll eventually get there with just a single minelaying submarine even if it takes bloody forever and if they don't have good anti-sub capabilities a few subs can place their mines essentially unopposed till the enemy comes to their senses and starts actually taking anti-sub warfare seriously.
Fist thx so much for the Navy tips latley many people struggle with this new DLC, second could you recomend how many dockyards the US, UK, Italy and Japan should build, and lastly can you make a video where you use the naval composisions to show how you use your navy.
I'd recommend tries the US to get about 45, UK you really only need to build 4 or 5 more
Me in multiplayer build 120 in mtg
Any nation can comfortably make a navy with 45 dockyards. 60-75-90 if you want it fast, faster, or if you want to naval invade Japan from Sweden (if you can that is).
Great video many people are struggling with this dlc (me included) so I think this video is going to do great. Also will you be doing any updated nation guides for japan, USA and uk?
Planning on germany,usa and japan 😁
Dustinl796 Videos how dare you put japan over UK
IM SORRY! 😢
Dustinl796 Videos will you do it in the future?
Definitely, as of right now I'm just planning to do Germany and USA next
keep up the good work dustin nice video bro
Best hoi4 youtuber ever!!!
Best comment ever!!! 😁
This was really helpful, thank you so much
One question tho, is this video still up to date today?
dThank you for this video, and giving the detailed templates. I wonder, what is the point of having DDs in the fleet? Are they not going to get killed very quickly in heavy engagements?
Is good fleet compensation video
1:08 Convoy Raiding
2:43 Convoy Escort
4:48 Patrol Force
5:53 Carrier Force
8:03 Battleship Force
Trying to catch up, I'm using HOI and WTT and don't have the Request License Production option you use to form strategies. How can I get a look at the enemy?
Nice video, what would you suggest for a surface raider composition though? Or is that no longer feasible?
I don't really see a reason to have a surface group for destroying convoys unless your Germany, and even then usually the AI will destroy any type of Fleet you put up as soon as it's detected and sends most of its Navy to wipe it out. If you still want to try it though I would recommend probably the patrol Fleet I showed earlier in the video
will your commanders know what groups to use in specific situations or do you have to micromanage each mini fleet in a battle?
I don’t have the mtg dlc but this TF is a feature in base game too ... thanks for showing the guide ... it was very confusing picking up the game again
Glad I was able to help :-)
Could we have video about the other, less used kinds of ships (Coastal Defense, Super Heavy Battleship, Torpedo Cruiser) and how to incorporate them into a fleet?
Might look into it 😁
Great vid
Protip as for anyone trying to play Japan, UK, France, Italy or USA
The starting "useful" ship designs are outdated by default
Like Japan has AA & Seaplanes attached to Sendai Class, but the Okinoshima Class doesn't have Seaplanes, basically a downgrade and it's not outdated for some reasons
A heads up as if you are wasting valuable naval XP on making AA or other variants of ships :)
One u-boat-fleet composition I can recommend as germany:
Go for ,,U-Boat Effort", 'cause that unlocks a special submarine-hull, the ,,cruiser submarine", which you can equip with seaplanes for a way better surface detection!
So you can create a ,,S&D Convoy Raiding"-fleet, but your'e still a ,,true u-boat"-fleet... also kinda. ^^
Just get 400+ in 1 fleet 😂
After having watched the video, I must say those are really nice task forces, I am stealing one of them. Nice ballpark numbers, something I forgot to give in my original comment. Really nice and to the point. Something I havent toyed around with is the new doctrines, do you think that with the naval mechanics some doctrines play out differently, and do you think its worth making a video about it?
how do you make use of the escort carrier groups? do you set them on patrol or convoy escort?
My Fleet Composition:
Against Japan I death-stack all my surface ships into one single task force, and then I move them all to Guam and strikeforce a lot of the pacific, I then make 10 taskforces of subs, each made up of the 10 subs that patrol the pacific, whilst I keep the rest in reserve. I generally use Nimitz for my battlefleet and Ernest for my patrol group, this usually destroys any Japanese navy, and the only real threat to my ships are Naval Bomers, but they mostly attack my subs and not much else.
Once I'm done with Japan, I move my fleet to Britain, where I split my battlefleet into 4-8 smaller forces, which I use to either raid convoys, escort convoys, or strikeforce, while my subs raid the convoys, also If I have enough spare subs, I make another raiding fleet.
You might want to start off with an explanation of taskforces and navy groups and what the purpose of each is...Also whether it's a taskforce or navy group that covers a single sea zone and why you can get big penalties to missions if you don't have sufficient ships to cover a sea zone (convoy protection for example)
I did a naval guide recently and covered most of that and didnt want to re ecplain it if a subscriber was coming back but i see your point and i probably should have re ecplained.
I hope they add the ability to design tanks and air crafts like ships ...dan lind talk about that but he didn't confirm it
Yeah me too, would be cool to change the airframe and other stuff
In the very first "Darkest Hour - a Hearts of Iron game" (HOI1 basically), you could research all the single elements - from armor of different thickness, through various gun calibres, to stuff like fuel filters etc. Was kind of overwhelming for the most folks though, and affected only the stats.
@@dustinl796 Then we just need a DLC for designing artillery pieces - mountain, light, medium, heavy, siege for speed, weight, cost, durability etc, then another DLC for machine guns and rifles/handguns - Carcano M1891 - cost 65 percent of default, durability 72, attack 62 percent of default (100)
Nah just kidding...
Sorta
When it comes to the navy and SPEED. I assume by the way you're describing things that it's not like Land Divisions where the entire Division operates at the slowest speed correct????
Could you talk about ship designs themselves, about the cost and production time trade-offs. I tried a couple games with smaller nations and found out that i can barely produce a sufficient navy. Should i use the best upgrade always or use lvl 1 or 2 ? Is refitting worth it? do i refit the crap destroyers that i get at the start (like italy). do rush a superior design an crank out some badly equipped ships and the refit them? are dual purpose secondaries worth it?
As a minor use BB hulls to make BCs, use 3 turret of guns, or make CA with torps. One of the two desicion will be your navy's Flag ships. As for CL, specialize them for spotting, like radar, catapult, sonar altogether to achieve immense reconnaissance. AA CL is and CVE (cruiser hull converted CVs) for Air dominance (try to use 2FP-1TP set up) is also needed. Make 2 DDs, one for torps, one for ASW. Torp DD should have 2 sets of torps and DP DD guns for AA supplementary. Same with ASW but with one set of torps OPTIONALLY(still recommended). Minesweepers and layers are excluded since their purpose outside of combat so make them if you know minelaying will play a role for your play. (Or better, forget navy, just spam DDs and SS for minelaying). Also at the moment i am tring to figure out is there a possible multi-purpose DD to spam every task force so that we can diminish confusion and grant an ease of gameplay, but that's a long term goal.
For Subs(SS), if you can put them under 1k ic, do so, otherwise go all in and give as many torps as possible, best possible engine. Radar or snorkel is still a question for me too.
Well let me say this, for ships bigger, and stronger are always worth it
@@dustinl796 Only if you defend them well.
A fleet that's too top heavy can be countered.
Always keep 4-5 destroyers pr heavier ship.
4 for the carrier, 4 for the superheavy battleship, 4 for each of the regular battleships, 4 for each of the battlecruisers, 4 for each of the heavy cruisers, etc.
Bigger ships are also slower, so that's another issue...
Nice video but i got 1 question: Is this for PvP only or also good to use in single player?
I'm new to the game and still learning the basics and i chose Japan as my first nation, so i think i could use a good Navy.
They are just good in general, as for PvP , you don't really have time to setup the templates as pausing in most lobbies are not allowed, but still worth going for if you're fast enough
i was really hoping for some number crushing. like explaining how you come to those numbers - is there a detection threshold in a naval tile for convoys that can be capped. or is this just a multiplayer meta development that isnt really questioned?
A good chunk of my videos I don't really number crunch and instead just show things that I've used in multiplayer that have worked trying to share the knowledge, this video was one of those where I just go over things that have worked for me
Hey Dustin I played a MP game yesterday as Japan. But somehow even though I had 2 Medium fleets patroling 1 (!) Sea zone (left to Philippines), I was NOT able to locate the American fleet. They got superiority and naval invaded china wihtout ever having to confront my navy. It took weeks for the 'spotting bar' to fill up.
Any ideas how to avoid that in the Future? I'm thinking of adding 1 dedicated 'spotter' Light CR stacked with these plane catapults per fleet to Max the surface detection. Good idea?
Well I noticed you said it was in multiplayer, it is also possible that your Fleet just didn't have very good radar or sonar we have any planes patrolling to detect him but to me it sounds a lot like he turned on do not engage since you never engaged him once. In case you didn't know something people do in multiplayer that is also banned in multiple servers is they sometimes will turn on do not engage like they're going to repair but then they will start conducting missions like Patrol and it gets them Naval superiority and their Navy wont engage anyting while they have Naval superiority. If you play against him again and use The Fleets or task forces if you navel invades make sure to save the game and double check later on without telling him in advance and see if that's what he did. Otherwise it could just be very low surface detection but he still would have had to engage your Fleet
@@dustinl796 OwO that is weird cause After the game I asked him about that and he was super dodgy. Also this America player violated multiple other rules like joining the war in 1940 so it wouldn't surprise me!
Having said that I still am not sure on which ships how much Radar I need to put to make sure I have 'ok' surface detection.
Well to be totally honest you don't technically need radar to stop a naval invasion, Naval invasions happen only when the enemy has 70% or more Naval superiority in a zone. So as long as you keep more ships than the enemy in a sea zone whether you detect him or not they can't Naval invade
+@@riicklancerloock268 I'd bring that cruiser if I where you together with a few destroyers in a spotter fleet.
I've had this happen to me. The game is literally broken where "do not engage" is a cloaking device that makes you invisible
When starting as USA, how soon do you start upgrading ships and changing the fleet setups? I feel so lost looking at all the ships.
i normally only upgrade the olga class sense the rest are alright.
So the next question is then how do you set up the Fleets(group) themselves. The task forces inside the fleets you did a very good job explaining, so thanks.
When you send lets say the Battle Force(group) from your video into an area to do missions all those will be operating in that sea area. Possibly alone and possibly several areas if you select that. No carriers because they are in another fleet, and assigned to maybe different areas. UI is pretty bad at this with light and dark green to see assigned zones for selected and unselected groups, so it becomes a mess, and my bet is you get wasted by enemy with airplanes because that Battle Force(group)goes somewhere without any aircraft carriers.
Well, my idea is then to have a Fleet with eg. 1 carrier task force, a battleship group, a submarine group, some escort groups and assign mission. That worked for me pretty well in one area and they can do their different missions there. Still my experience with this is also that when patrolling several areas a destroyer escort group got wiped out in battle alone with heavier enemy ships, because your own big ships are patrolling in the next area and both are not at same place at same time. They move around from those and it shows eg. 0/1 og 1/1 showing what is covered and not. This is the hardest part to find a good strategy for.
You know what, you should make a video on how you USE the fleets too! That would be great :)
Really it's up to you how you want to deploy them, what I usually do for multiplayer is I will set up the task forces under different theaters, inside the theaters I will assign only ships of a certain design and template to us Admiral, like for example have four or five carrier task forces under one Admiral then another Admiral well have control over another strike force group like four or five of the Convoy escort task forces. This way it's easier to keep track of what's what and then I'll just select the Navy's and sometimes even overlap them
@@dustinl796 ok, that sounds like a good way of doing it. Will try that, thanks
Hi Dustin, Is there a way to make a fleet, spam out for example wolfpack subs. And keep on stacking them into piles of 25/50 automatically. Now I feel I have to micro manage this, because once a taskforce is full, it will not automatically start a new one, instead it will create a reserve fleet.
THanks =]
the automatic reinforce button in the task force menu. looks like a + sorta, it makes a template you could also apply to other groups so reserve ships will just go automatically
For some reason I cant figure out how to change the logo icon for task force? Example: You have the pitch fork logos in your "American Theater 1" screen at the top left? Isn't there a way to change it to binocular logo for spotters, submarine logo, pitch fork logo for strike force and so forth? How can I changed that?
I always was making these kind of templates:
- for convoy raiding: only submarines
- for convoy escort: destroyers, sometimes I add Light Cruisers
- for S&D: Light and Heavy Cruisers, and Battleships if I have any (I heard an advice to maybe avoid producing them)
- aircraft template: Aircraft Careers with Destroyers
And usually doctrine: ,,Trade Interception".
Do I do the right thing?
Pretty much yes
Subs actually blow chunks in this game and are severely outclassed by packs of "raider" destroyers/light cruisers.
Try it.
Build your LCs / DDs with lots of guns/torpedoes. Make them fast. Put them in packs of 20. Have them convoy raid.
And watch them chew through the A.Is patrol squadrons/convoys like there is no tomorrow.
Essentially the enemies scouts are run down and killed before help can arrive is my guess as to why it works.
Well done
Danke
I wish Italy had MAS units (manned torpedoes), irl they did some serious damage to the British fleet, especially at Alexandria, one of the few true successes we had :/
agreed
@@dustinl796 yes, good video btw, I'm building smaller versions of these fleets in my game.
What's a good template for anti-air Light Cruisers? Is 3 or 4 modules enough or is that overkill? I know these AA Cruisers would be in fleets supported by more direct naval combat capable ships, but I figure keeping one battery is still probably a good idea just in case.
My current game as Germany I avoided war with the Allies and am actually fighting with them against the USSR. So, I'm taking the opportunity to make a Mediterranean fleet for a likely future war with the Allies. Since I have tye dockyards and know the Allies have a big airforce, I want to keep anything in the Med sea somewhat safer from planes.
If you check my channel I have historical ship designs. The United States video has an Atlanta class and a couple of others that are made to represent World War II anti-aircraft Cruisers :-)
I know this is an older video, but can this be used if you don't own man the guns? I don't really want to purchase it, it adds too much complexity in the naval area for me. I have some features of man the guns, like fuel for example, but I won't be making AAA anything, a cruiser is a cruiser. Can I still use these compositions or should I use a different guide?
The idea is more the same with the different ship types since Naval Combat changed in general so it should still be fine
Hats off if anyone rly cares so much about fleet and split it so wisely Kappa
- What do you think of scout cruisers, or cruisers with two or even three aircraft catapults? I've been experimenting with having one such cruiser in my patrol and escort fleets. I usually wait until T3 to do it due to XP costs.
- Would a heavy AA cruiser be a bad idea?
Personally in my experience they are very good ideas
Good video, but I am wondering how much it actually worth to build specialized AA ships? Isnt it better to have just some AA on all your ships, preferably with dual purpose guns?
Well its just something i do for historic realism that keeps working for me. But yea. You should probably add more armor and use dual purpose if possible
I‘m still confused. Are all those ship numbers for entire fleets, so that some of them will be doing patrol, some strike force, etc?
I might have missed it, but it seems like you didn't give any advice on a minelaying task force, any tips? Subs or Destroyers preferable?
Well i didnt because mines for some reason really bugs the game and not worth it. Alot of mp games also have no mines allowed as a rule
Nice video. Btw why do your task forces contain so many destroyers. I thought the ratio of capital ships to screens was 1:4.
Well some people say diffrent numbers, i like to have max stats and have multiple destroyers, like a few maxed out for aa, a few maxed with depth charges, and a few maxed with torpedo attack. That way my stats are maxed out indtead of a little of everything
@@dustinl796 thx for reply
@@czechmatoupeky1185 The 4 to 1 ratio is about protection from torpedoes. There may be other sweet spots for other stats and weapons.
And at any rate destroyers and cruisers are the workhorses of your fleet.
I was looking at this video again for reference, and the Heavy Battleship group caught my eye with the number of Battleship you say you should use. Doesn't it seem a bit overkill to have that many in a group? I'm wondering if it would be more efficient to have at most 4 or 5 Battleships in a task force, add Battle Cruisers and a few more Heavy Cruisers to make up for the firepower as well as adding numbers.
It just seems a bit like overkill to me that you'd need 6 - 8 BB in a TF. My thought process is that if you need such a large amount of Battleships, it would probably be better to spread them out in to their own task forces. I mean if you have the industrial capacity to create what you have here, then diverting them to their own groups shouldn't be a big deal.
In single player you need less but because multiplayer games are where people stack several of them you need as many as you can get sometimes
@@dustinl796 Ah right, forgot about that.
1:10 submarines
2:45 convoy escort
You need to redo this video, Dustin. First off, the information is somewhat inaccurate. BCs are more effective with Carriers than BB due to speed increase. Secondly, you failed to factor in which Naval doctrine you're going down. Fleet in Being, you want far fewer groups that are large, more Heavy Cruisers, Battleships than Light Cruisers, Aircraft Carriers. Trade Interdiction you want a ton of small, fast fleets usually less than 10 total ships. Base Strike is all about making Carrier Task Forces. You can basically scrap Battleship production, make big Light Cruiser, BC and Carrier groups. Depending what doctrine you choose, its going to change your fleet composition.
To be honest I was thinking of redoing it until I saw that Paradox is trying to rework the ships so it makes more sense like destroyers and light Cruisers would be able to easily Dodge Torpedoes but not bombs, submarines will be incredibly slow to get into a battle it would only go for Capital ships and stuff like that
What would you think of maybe adding two or so carriers for the battleship task forces?
You can but then it mostly becomes a carrier task force
How do you move ships about within your fleets? I want to break mine down and set them all up again from scratch but the controls wont let me do anything as far as I can tell. I have tried changing the fleet composition, clicking and dragging or selecting individual ships to move about but nothing seems to work. If I delete a task force, the ships seem to just disappear.
What am I doing wrong?
I usually just combine all mine into one large Fleet and then click the create new task force icon
Say we're Italy or Germany (or a japan that's undergone a civil war *cough*) and we have a rather small navy. What tips could you offer on how best to boost naval production, or how much we should even prioritize naval production, so as to build up our navy?
In terms of naval production for Japan, I'd almost argue that the navy is as important to Japan, and the Royal Navy is to Great Britain. Beyond that, it really depends on your circumstances. That said it might be best to start with subs since you can spam the crap out of them and they're cheap. What I tend to do (and I don't know if it's a good idea or not) is pick all the models of ships I want to produce (let's say, 14 different models, Dustin's ship builds plus a minelaying DD), pick the number of ships I want each line to produce, the task force I want them to go to (pre-war so the "training fleet") and then max out factories after that.
This plan won't work if you're wanting to go to war soon, but you don't also want to go too crazy if you don't have the fuel storage or income to handle it.
Honestly italy or germany are probably going to be better off prioritizing subs to try to cut off oil to uk,
Another question on my mind: What exactly do you use your Light Escort Carriers for? I would assume that they're probably useful on escort or maybe patrol duty?
Mostly I put them with fleets that are doing Shore bombardment for Naval Invasion and load them with exclusively carrier cas, then I ordered them to ground attack areas that I'm Naval invading like Okinawa, Japan, or islands like Iwo Jima
Is it possible for you to give me your opinion on the Unique Hull types like the Cruiser Submarine, Torpedo Cruiser, Panzershiff, and the Coastal Defense Ship?
I havwnt done much on that yet 😁
Yeh. Don't worry. I mean the update came out so early it's unrealistic to expect so much. I was just curious
I'm having a dificulty with Reserve Fleets.
Playing as US, I created a Pacific Fleet with 4 Task Forces and ordered them into Naval Exercises. After 2 months I noticed that one of my TF just disapered, sent by the AI to Reserve.
So I created a new one, assigned it to Pacific Fleet, made sure that "Automatic split off" was Enabled in all 4 TFs and put them to do Naval Exercises. A few months lates, another TF was sent to Reserve.
Sounds to me like a bug in the game.
Did you had this problem?
Tbh happens to me sometimes not sure why
Maybe you go could do multiplayer navy guides for different countries? Japan, UK, and Italy for example.
Trying to get a few guides for those countries it will also cover Navy
I suggested the same thing. I'd like a guide specifically dedicated to the Navy of each country.
As a beginner with 300+ hours, this is all very overwhelming.
i started to learn after 700 hours lol. Take it easy bro
are carriers important im playing as italy and don't know if I need them
nah if you are not going to pasific or altantic you dont need to make cv
Hey, what about doing a video playing as a real minor like say New Zealand (the country I'm currently playing as in a game) and then work your way up from having essentially no fleet to beating Japan with as little help as possible from USA, UK and Australia?
(I decided to take a no time limit mod to my game, the Axis controll all of Asia and Africa and Europe except a few parts of the middle east, they got Australia, England, even Denmark and the parts of Canada that England starts with., the Allies got the rest of the Americas, and me alone in New Zealand alternating between killing the axis invasions with my fleets and killing their naval invasions on the shores with infantery divisions that got a few super heavy tank destroyers, tanks, anti-air, and self propelled artillery, perhaps not the best of ideas, but I got a heck of a lot more production capacity then I do manpower and got enough of most resources to just about produce anything I like as long as I use enough time on it, defensivly they can't really do anything about me, offensivly...
I'm trying to put together enough of a force to retake Tasmania and I've retaken a few islands nearby, strictly speaking I've probably already lost the war, but I don't like giving up, so yeah...)
Edit:
With "Denmark" I was referring to holding things like Greenland.
Bit of a brain fart there...
5:14 patrol
1:39 raiders
5:59 Carriers
i may sound stupid, but how do i do task forces? when i produce them they form automatically and i dont know how to change it. im new to the game btw
what about the auto reinforcement templates the button with all the ships in it???
If you are struggling with it read this.
Use the Icons.
Set the number you want, then set the icon
Shield, gun, binoculars etc
Leaving it as question mark is useless
What he said
This naval system os a real pain in the ass. I've made everything the tutorial says, but the icons in the regiins still keep saying I have no fleet for anything
Do you consider having a playthrough as Germany, I want to see you escort your convoy as my escort fleet often runs into UK battlefleet.
Realisticly germany will always have a issue with the uk fleet. I recomend if you have to trade look for resources that dont require convoys.
Also make liberal use of the sea zone restriction feature to keep your convoys from running into the zones that's subject to the heaviest UK patrolls and try to expand the available coastline so the brits have to spread out their fleet more.
How many task forces would you recommend to be operating in a single naval area?
It depends on the size and what their goal is, if they're hunting for submarines 20 Destroyers normally does the job, if they're patrolling and expected to fight enemy Fleet you want to have some battleships Destroyers, carriers it just varies from game to game
I think the concept of AA CL needs fixing as from what I read on the wiki, naval bombers prioritize carriers above all, capital ships next and finally revealed subs, other ships being of tthe same priority. And naval AA fire only applies when it's being directly attacked by planes, so having that much AA on CL seems entirely wasteful. No AA will probably do the same job.
The most useful video of mtg i've seen
So are all of the lighter task forces designed to patrol spots that you know the enemy won't put a main fleet? All of the lighter task forces will be annihilated if the enemy actually engages them in battle with any battleship or carrier fleets. I played a game as the UK where what I found to work the best for convoy protection was to just combine every single ship and have them convoy escort together while avoiding any sea zones accessible from land based bombers. The fuel cost was significant, but I made it work.
I'm thinking that if he Dustin actually fielded all of these fleets as the USA, he would keep the larger ones in port until they are needed to save fuel, but then if Japan made any moves, those smaller fleets would be destroyed before the main fleets could deploy. Would the idea be to field the main fleets immediately, destroy the enemy capital ships, and then patrol with the smaller ones?
The reason you use small and light task forces is because they are quicker than the enemy main fleets so when the small patrol spots the enemy fleets they call for the main fleet to engage but if they can't get reinforcements then they retreat and are much faster than the main fleets and have a high chance of escaping with minimal casualties.
Pretty much yes, Convoy Escorts are going from Light which means not expecting much resistance to heavy meaning expecting small Naval groups and maybe even a possible surface Fleet
@@maytums1672 I noticed there is some sort of option for a fleet to stay in port unless there is an enemy fleet spotted. So I should have the main fleet on that to save fuel and hope when the small fleets are engaged the main one gets there in time to save the smaller ones from being destroyed?
@@wanderingwizard1361 yeah basically how it's meant to work
+@@wanderingwizard1361 Yep.
Set a main fleet with battleships, carriers, heavy cruisers and as much screening from light cruisers and destroyers as they'll need to not be sunk by torpedoes from subs and destroyers and to protect from mines and put them in a strike force close to where the lighter task forces are patrolling.
Patroll few zones pr task force if possible.
And your strike force will sally out to help out with the defense of the patroll task force.
They won't help convoy escorts etc though, only patrolls.
The current meta is to get as many modern ships as possible in kaiserreich i was able to sink sever dreadnoughts with 36 destroyers
oof
How am I supposed to remember all of that?
imgur.com/a/pUBOV7P
Pen and paper, or notepad on computer
@@Snowarc Thanks
@@Snowarc thank you
@@dustinl796 Why not lots and lots of subs? I watched your previous video on templates and I have to disagree with subs only getting 1 torpedo tube. High torpedo attack seems to knock out convoys much quicker and give you full control of a sea zone with fewer subs. I did 10 groups of 10-20 subs, sub 3s with snorkel 2, 3 torpedo tubes. Dominated the Atlantic as Germany (steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/982253708690857227/6D23D51DF36E33D95A4330876A9055FA065655DB/)
20000 Convoys sunk - the allies could have mitigated that but couldn't build anything resembling a useful destroyer. Also, America lost the civil war trying to go commie when we supported the confederates. But then both US's attacked the Axis.
I am using Red China and got rid of Japan at mainland. I am prepareing landing on Japan homeland. Do you have recommendation for navy Invasion task force at cheap solution? China didn't have strong Infrastructure and need to build from start.
honestly... as prc para drooping onto japans homeland is smarter id say
1:10 subs
2:45 convoy escort
5:10 Patrol group
Carriers seem really to be very weak in 1.6.0.
You should experiment with only building battleships and dd/cl.
Well thats what i thought at first but now some type of combat width thing has been added so only a certain ammount can be used in battles
@@dustinl796 You mean for battleships? Even if that is the case, the performance discrepancy is large enough that cvs are pretty useless. Fought a war against the whole world as the US for fun. A month after the start of the naval battles, my (9, with 3+ tier 3) carriers had scored 4 kills against enemy ships while my (15 + 4 SH) battleships had scored over 140. Most of these combats took place in the mid-Atlantic and the Caribbean.
Well to be honest way I've always used carriers that really is now how the update made them work is there just there to get air superiority for battle groups, you can still add Torpedoes to them what surface ships do way better sinking unless your aircraft carriers are loaded with 1/2 Fighters have torpedo bombers and you're able to stop out the enemy fighters in the sky
Can you explain the reserve/reinforcement specs for these fleets?
Reserve fleets are currently broken, atleast thats what a lot of people have been saying
@@dustinl796 Ok ta. Nice series by the way.
Thx 😁
shouldent you use cruiser conversions for CVE's as that makes it even cheaper? like in IRL ww2?
Well it depends, Cruisers have great AA and carriers sometimes get deck wiped so it's really depending up to you
hmm ok but thanks anyway keep up the videos!
Np 😁
I heard all submarines was op. Does this still work? I wanna do a netherlands against british and really have shit docks so subs is only possibility
Not all subs but sub 3's yes
What if i already have some random task foces and i want to reduce it and just make a single big task force from existing task forces
Slept that task force and click create new task force, then just work from there. Or another option is to right-click it under Reserve fleet's then create a new task force and set up a template. On the list of the ships up top from left to right on the right side of that there's a ship icon you can click and set up a template for the Navy group and the reserve ships will go filling those out
Dustinl796 Videos thankyou
Okay now this is epic
Glad you think so
The only thing I hate about playing the US is when I am trying to organize my fleet. I try moving my pacific fleet to the east so I can easily sort them, but, there is one tiny spot near the Panama Canal that ur battleships and other capital ships can’t pass. I eventually figured out I could just put subs near that area. So big oof
Yea
How would you deploy these fleets or task forces? Would you please show me how?
There is a naval guide i did a few days ago if you wana see it 😁
playing as the soviets, Nearly beat the Allies, but the US joined, started to work on heavy battlecruisers, each one takes over 1 year to make, how the hell do I make enough to beat the US, UK, France, Italy (at war with both me and the allies) and all the little allies combined? (working on killing all the ships I can with my airforce, but they can only do so much and can't help me cross the atlantic or pacific gaps)
Now I'm waiting for air and tank production to be reworked, imagine it
Different defensive weapons, engines, adding sonars to the planes, hardpoints for drop tanks, etc
For ground vehicles, rotating turrets or casemate? Upgrade your short barreled 37mm PZIII's to long barreled 50mm, so many ideas
Yes that would be pretty cool however, I still think of Spain Focus Tree in an update should take priority
@Spartan Duck germany would be a pain to manage
Very usefull video, but can you explain the reason behind your Numbers? For example why exactly 8 CA and not 5 and so on?😅
Mostly it's just things I've experienced since the update that work, like eight light Cruisers are usually what I've seen stop somebody from destroying a fleet with kamikazes, we're just things I've seen happen with submarines where they do good and then there's really not much of a difference after 50 anymore, just small things I've noticed and documented and wrote down and then started messing with them and tweaking them a little bit to the minimum requirements and the maximum requirements for it to work
Dustinl796 Videos thank for the fast answer, so you should aim in general for the maximum number that is cost-effektive?
Sure, that can work
You can still make a death stack with US as it has unlimited fuel
Well I guess technically is the u.s. you could but realistically in major multiplayer games once World War II kicks off and you're sending oil to the UK, France, maybe even Russia along with using your airplanes and then ground forces in Europe or wherever it's still pretty difficult to pull it off