IS IT WORTH OWNING A SUR RON IN THE UK? (why is everyone so angry?)
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- čas přidán 11. 01. 2023
- In this video I test out that new Maxxis rear tyre as well sharing my experience of the negativity received since owning a sur ron and posting videos on youtube.
The UK is a big nanny state. Very feminine way of thinking over there. “No you can’t do that it’s too dangerous!!! Ban Everything that scares me 😭” In the US you are atleast aloud to have some fun
Its RIDICULOUS
although I'd say allowing machine guns is slightly too far in the opposite direction
@@Lee-ic2yn do you have any idea how much paperwork and interviews it takes to buy a machine gun?
@@supermalevitality8532 not at all, maybe not machine guns then but some of the stuff I see on CZcams looks like it came from call of duty!
But I'd take those interviews for zero speed limit! 😆
@Ian_1 who would want to do that anyway? Atvs are too prone to flipping at highway speed and tons of people would die. They just suck for that. I ride a ktm500 and it’s 50 state street legal, and kicks ass on the trails
@Ian_1 interesting fact
You can do that in England and you don't have to wear a helmet 😆
Surron rider from Texas here. Keep doing what you're doing. It's obvious that you are being extremely respectful and that's all that matters, regardless of what kind of vehicle you're operating. Good vibes
Thanks man. Nice to get get comments from understanding like minded people. Much appreciated!! ✌️
I’m from Texas as well and looking to purchase one, is there any local places to test ride one near SA?
Dont see many saurons but the people that tend to have them round me are just knob ends blasting 30mph down foot paths without a care in the world
That's what ruins it for people,
But near me the local council closed an MX track because of noise and air pollution, but the nearest house to that track was 6-8 miles away,
But before closing it they would allow it to be open 1 Sunday a month and then just closed it down.
Give people free places to ride them etc and it will help combat the anti social part
Nice video mate, with my Experience on ebikes I’ve found surrons to be awesome it’s just such a shame that so many people decide it’s a problem to them! I ride a standard d.I.y ebike 1300 watts and i find it to be a good mix between blending and standing out, anyway, l really enjoyed your video man you got yourself a sub 👌🏽👍🏽
Nice one. Thank man. Really appreciate your comment and support! Ride safe!
Surron rider from Berkshire here, I ride trails similar to you, I get mostly an ok reaction from public, but the occasional Karen and Darren, I try to interact with them and show that I'm just enjoying the countryside like them, I'm respectful and slow down around walkers and dogs etc, in fact, those on Ebikes go flying past me!..but never get a word said to them.. looking forward to the warmer dryer weather, as I'm a fair weather rider 😁.. roll on the summer 🌞
Yea I know exactly what you mean. Can’t wait for summer!!! Ride safe man 👊
nice good to see you going out and riding even in the winter you seem like a really relaxed and cool guy
Thanks bro. Can’t wait for summer!!
It’s crazy here in the UK! So many laws and rules! As soon as anyone starts having fun.. it’s like NO! Sorry that’s not happening! It makes me so angry 😡 I’m trying to make a CZcams channel on electric scooters and possibly EUC’s and maybe even a Sur Ron but the laws and the consequences are diabolical! Just because some old people sitting in an office don’t like them! 😏 anyway nice bike 👍🏼 just keep riding and ignore them, you done the right thing by deleting. Have fun and ride safe, that’s all you can do.
Thanks man.. Appreciate your comment. I guess haters gonna hate but im gonna keep riding where i can, be respectful, don't cause anyone any harm and keep myself to myself. Good luck with your channel man!
Im a mountain biker with an e160 RS Whyte. As you say there's always one. I get so much abuse while riding my bike. I always ride respectfully around others but there's always those who want to have a go and spoil your fun. Im a dog owner too. Great video. Thanks. Im looking at getting a Sur ron 👍
thanks man. Appreciate the comment! ride safe man
Sur-Ron rider here in Thailand. Pleased to be a member of the Sur-Ron afficionados. No struggles here whatsoever with the Thai community at large. All smiles from regular folks to authority figures. In fact me and my Sur-Ron meeting many people who show warm genuine interest and appreciation. Love it.
Because here in the 1st world, everyone's problems are solved so Karen's have to make up their own problems and take out their boredom on anything they deem different. The rest of the world can see how obviously incredible and liberating these machines are!
Sounds like a dream man. Great to hear that my videos are being watched in Thailand too!! Such an incredible place. I visited back in 2017 and can’t wait to go back!! Ride safe man and thanks for your comment!!
Far to many rules regs and laws in England... it’s just crazy and far to many People that have forgotten what fun is and do not want anyone else having any.... you are not robbing old women or selling drugs you are enjoying life/ not affecting anyone else so carry on regardless 👍
i wish Surron had a more Stealthy, Basic design
Is there any bikes with Surron Speed snd Reliability what just look like a Regular Mountain Bike instead of a Dirtbike
I want one but stupid laws
Best thing I ever did was transfer all the bits from my Sur Ron onto my 20z4 fat tyre bike. Way less hassle now and only slightly slower!
Are these legal in the UK? To ride off road? Look like so much fun!
Thinking about getting one for just exactly what you do 👌🏻 and you have made me want one even more now, respectful rider having him time fair play mate 👏
Thanks man. Yea I would definitely recommend it!!
Shared trails for all 👍
As long as everyone's space is respected, all is well. I see no problems sharing with all trail users, provided we ride to the conditions and leave minimal trace.
Definitely. I cant see why we cant all get along! Take it easy bro!
Hey don’t worry buddy,there’s always one….or two or more, I’ve had this on a pure mountain bike (I’m 74 ) and if these things had been available when I was a young tear ass l would have been right up there with you, back in my day people were more tolerant,all this social media is the problem,people don’t just gossip amongst they’re friends/locals they tell the world! Keep enjoying it son you have my support 👍
Thanks for your comment man and your support. It’s much appreciated 👏
Good video bro keep them up love watching them! Am thinking off getting a sur Ron my self around may time would you say there worth the money then and also do you get many people moaning and any incidents with the police
Thanks bro, appreciate the support! Defiantly worth the money. I have owned mine since October time and so far I have only really had 2 people that have had anything negative to say. Everyone else loves it. I haven't had any issues with the police but i have a new video dropping on Thursday that goes int the legality of the bike in a bit more detail and i come face to face with undercover police!
@@southcoastsurron thanks for the reply back 👍
Amazing looking bike! May I ask where you purchased your graphics kit from? Thanks in advance
Yea sure. I got them form sticker fx graphics. Really good quality, Pretty easy to install and fairly priced. ✌️
@@southcoastsurron I appreciate you.
Least you slow down etc for dog walkers….. think lots of them have had bad encounters so tar everyone with the same brush.
I’d really like to get one I live near Portsmouth. Is the area in this vid local….. it looks familiar.
👍
Ha yes very close to Portsmouth. You should get one!! Would be great to meet up with some fellow riders!
I never get any hassle when I’m riding because I have a road legal one with bac8000 and bypassed battery that I use on the road and a standard one that I green lane on I just swop the plates 😂
I commute to work every day on my mountain bike and use the signposted cycle paths, without exception dog walkers are an absolute daily liability even though I am as entitled to be on the cycle paths.
I ride politely indicating my presence via a small bell, slowing down not to startle anyone. I have however lost count of the amount of uncontrollable dogs and self entitled dog walkers that seem to believe that the path is only for them. Unfortunately this is daily life in the UK.
I think it's a dna thing of being constantly invaded on what is a tiny island with not much space.
i like your content im from the north west i really want a surron what is the name of the shop you bought your bike from it would be a big help
thanks in advance
I actually got mine second hand from a guy locally. It saved me around £1000 and he had already done a few upgrades which again saved me another £600 - £800. There is a shop on the southcoast called e-bike south. Its worth a chat with them if you are looking to buy brand new. Good luck!
The bike looks like great fun love it . What mileage do you get from your bike ? Thanks I joked the video
Probably 30-40 miles if riding in sport and riding hard. 🙂
See a few of them on roads, parks and pedestrian areas. No helmet, just balaclavas even when it’s not cold, no number plate. One I came across in a pedestrian area dodged me on my legal ebike going at 30+ mph and slammed right into a tree breaking his wrist and leg. Endangered himself and others just to go for ride on a Sunday morning. His mate came along whilst he was waiting for the ambulance to stow his bike away, dropping it whilst doing so. Yes, because that’s the most important thing whilst the rider is lain stricken on the ground.
I don't think it's worth it my friend, but don't worry, I'll take it off your hands.👍😉 PS can you please put a propeller where the back wheel is so I can ride it back to the States? Cheers 🥂
I'm just being silly. I really enjoy the scenery on your rides. 👍
Keep up the content do you know how to wheelie it? I'm currently learnings
Thanks for the support man! To be honest im pretty useless at wheelies at the moment. Something on my list for 2023 tho. I might make a series of videos on my progression. Take it easy
I been looking at buying one of these for commuting to work ect, what's the range on these and how do you charge them?
range can be anywhere between 30 - 50 miles. They come with their own mains charger.
what is the Rise of the handle bar ? i like it
They are 3". Properly a bit too big. I think 2" would look better.
I don't own a suron but i really want one. I cant really afford 3k tho so think im going to buy a cyc x1pro g2 mid drive motor for my ebike and upgrade my battery from 52v to 73 in the future
Keep doing what you doing mate
Your a decent lad that much I can tel
Thanks man. Appreciate it!!
gr8 video! The satisfying aspect of owning electric mountain bikes is that you don't have to be a mechanic to work on your bike and replace parts or modify :)
Ah maintaining and modifying your own bike is half the fun 👊
Not a Su rron rider , rather a highly successful e MTB conversion, I ride local trials and whatnot, I wear hi vis vest and non flashing constant beam daytime lights, I also use what looks like some kind of toy (but totally effective) " bike kit " electric bike horn well in advance and approach slowly, I often get comments such as "thanks mate" and often genial comments etc, its really , really important to display that you are concerned for their safety, especially dog walkers. Just make absolutely sure you dont startle anyone because basically e bikes are very quiet.
Refreshing to watch a video that's not just wheeling like a idiot giving it all a bad rep. Big respect to you for still showing respect to others even and including the man who wanted a moan.
Thank man. Appreciate it.
agreed,the fact remains that the vast majority of Motorcyclists know their place,legal,insured,mot’d .The vast majority of mountain bikers know their place,bridleways,RUPPs,BOATs (if you don’t know what these are then you are the problem).
Suron riders don’t know their place ,the vast majority ride on footpaths,bridleways,roads pavements in fact anywhere they damn well please and the vast majority are bloody disrespectful (you are not ) but most are assholes.
What's the track at 4:20
Mtb rider here, would absolutely love a Surron, I'm up north and do imagine I'd get my fair share of angry idiots as we have some epic forest trails a stones throw from my my house.
Just wanted to say your bike is looking sick now man, the Fox sticker set has totally transformed it.
Thanks man. Appreciate the comment. You should definitely get one. You will love it!! 🤘
I'm.old enough to remember the hostility towards mountain bikes in the early days.
That looks an absolute hoot to ride, but I have a couple of questions.
Are you riding on 'green lanes'? A bike like this would be an amazing way to go green laning whilst keeping disturbance and noise down.
However...if you're riding bridleways/footpaths, I can see that causing bother. Common sense says we should all be able to get along...but not everyone has common sense. It will only take 1 serious injury and people will use it as an excuse to restrict access even more.
idk if ul see this but where did u buy ur Surron?
I got mine second hand from a local guy who selling it was too powerful for his needs.
Nithing better than a good blast In the countryside.
You have the right attitude, there are some characters out there for sure!
Generally I smile, wave and try to look like a cyclist 😄 seems to work mostly.
Nice little vid.
Too right!! Looking forward to the warmer weather so that we can get out more often. Thanks for your comment bro. Take it easy!
nice bike and good vid fella.
Thanks man!! appreciate it!!
Hi nice video
Does anyone know if you need a license to ride this on public road ?
Yes you must get a road legal surron number plates indicators tax and insurance, if you ride a surron without that like this guy in the vid the pigs will confiscate the surron
My son wants one ... what's the legality riding on uk roads ...
You would have to get a road legal version and have him do a cbt. Basically classed as a moped. 👍
love ur videos, new subscriber
Thanks bro. I really appreciate it!!
The place looks amazing!
Thanks bro.
I live in Maryland and I worry the police will not let me enjoy a Surron unless I’m off road only .
Just be careful man. Ride safe!
Hey i love the video and just wanted to ask i am looking to get a e bike but i dont know the laws i am 16 from the uk and just looking to have some fun but dont want to get stopped by the police any tips
Hey man. Thank you. I would say do your research and check through the dvla website. That will give you most of the answers. But ideally your gonna want to be riding on private land to completely say out of the attention of the police. But I have personally never had any issues and you can see from my videos the kinds of places I ride. Be safe and respectful and you should be fine!! 👊
Negative jealous people, keep being humble mate, love the vids!
Thanks man. Appreciate it 👊
bike looks really good love the grafix
Thanks man. Appreciate it👍
I built a nippy mid drive ebike back in 2015 which prompted my son to get a Surron that he sold a few months later. There was nowhere to ride it without people moaning on the tracks . I get away with it because mine is home made and a mountain bike. I can look like I'm pedalling even at 37mph . Maybe if Surron put a pushbike seat option on their bikes they wouldn't be as noticeable. Their peddle conversion also looks like it was conceived in the 50's and is utter garbage...
Surron lovely designed bike, just not covert enough to ride past plod.
haha yea i know what you mean. Ride safe man!
My thoughts too
I want one but it looks too much like an Actual Dirt Bike
I do own a E Scooter and I don't think police care about that as many have them and they only go 15mph but Surround are way faster and have good range so you could argue they're like an Electric dirtbike but the thing is they aren't safe enough or fast enough for a Highway but they could match road speeds
I feel like if they made E Bikes and Scooter legal they'll have a 15mph limit like in the others where they're legal
But USA has better laws where it makes more sense where it's 20mph federally
I am ok with 15-20mph but I don't get the wattage limits as wattage is for range
I want one so badly but i feel like the police are going to stop me cause im gonna use it for street riding
They do offer a road legal version that would be perfect for street riding. You could also consider the pedal conversion kit. I have a video demonstrating the kit dropping this Thursday!
@@southcoastsurron Get a bike license like the rest of us law abiding citizens, then nothing stopping you riding a bike on the street or on private land with the land owners approval
I thought the same, I feel like people just think negatively about them here without really thinking about it. They do people 0 harm when you're sensible, but you still get Karen's 🤷♂️
Exactly!! Can’t please everyone I guess. ✌️
What are the legalities with these awesome machines in the UK ?
If the motor takes a person above 15.5mph on a peddle assisted ebike, or if it's an electric bike without peddles then it's classed as a moped or motorbike - and they should only be used on roads legally. As I understand it.
There's a UK road-legal version of the Sur Ron, the L1e. No different to the off-road but has road legal lights, indicators and a number plate holder, and comes with a certificate of conformity, so can be taxed and insured and won't get confiscated if you're stopped by the Police. IMHO you'd be crazy not to buy the L1e.
Neg stuff for deletion:
Being constructive, it's easy to see that you aren't taxed and insured, with no mirrors, indicators or plate, all legally required for on road use.
Again, being constructive, I don't think the man was 'angry', maybe judgemental and definately 'informative'.
Lastly, I sincerely hope you are aware that without insurance, you will be personally held financially responsible for any damage that you personally cause. Not that you are the sort to do this deliberately, you are clearly a decent chap but, accidents happen. I'd hate to be left out of pocket because someone like you, didn't do the right thing, after doing the wrong thing.
Delete away mate, at least you have read and hopefully understood my concerns.👍
I think the Suron is a bit of a dilemma. It's a great little electric motorcycle but seems too much like a bicycle to be considered a motor vehicle. As such, its just sooooooo tempting to ride it without all the costly, legal requirements. It's a shame they don’t change the law because tbh, you can go just as fast and cause just as much harm on a non motorised bicycle and you don't need a licence/insurance for one of those.
You work for the council don’t you? How boring a mindset is this. 😂
Fantastic looking bike, if it wasn't so expensive I would say know to one myself. And to all the negative people please shut up and get a life ,have fun my friend and keep doing what you do.
Thanks man. Appreciate the comment. 🤘
Hey up mate. Here in Germany, people hate it when you're having fun in life. Seems to be getting that way in Blighty too.
defiantly heading that way! Thanks for your comment. Take it easy!
You always get ya do gooders mate,i've only got a legal e bike that looks like a moped and the odd do gooders give me shit,i just tell them what to do lol,i was going to get a suron but it's only the price that stopped me lol.
I've been thinking about getting a sur ron here in the UK , I'll be 16 soon . I read online that you need to be 16 and pass your cbt , insure tax and register the bike. Is this the case? Cheers
Yes you're right, you have to be 16 however, you can ride an e-bike over the age of 14 but it have to be restricted to 15.5mph and max output of 250watts.
Very interesting great riding
Thanks man. Appreciate the comment!!
In poland i ride my 3kw ebike everywhere. Sidewalks, footpaths etc and i had only 1 person having problem with that during my 8 year ebike adventure. Police dont care at all.
In germany this thing would be absolutely useless, you need a license for every vehicle that allows speeds past 25KMH. Youd pretty much only see those on closed MX tracks.
I looked at kids bikes cause im 10 and it says i need a dirt licence still
👍
Very chill guy
Thanks man. Ride safe 👊
Keep doing you bro good video
Thanks man. Really appreciate it👊
Good respect to people you pass , slowly, how it should be done , guy with the dog was a d- - - . Am afraid that I wouldn’t have been quite as courteous, kudos to you.
Haha thanks man. I want to ride the areas in years to come as they lead to some amazing trails so I want to try and keep the peace.
Is your speedo in MPH ?
👍
I've actually quite enjoyed some of this UK sur Ron riding CZcams videos as there isn't many out there ✌️
Thanks man. Appreciate it 👊
@@southcoastsurron no problem man keep creating content n hopefully one day soon UK will have a surron meet ✌️
whats your worst experience with the public while riding?
Not really had many bad experiences. The guy in this video is probably the worst. I have had a few people tell me I can’t ride in certain places but that’s about it. ✌️
do you need a license to ride these in uk?
No you don't is the short answer. Check out my latest video. czcams.com/video/ugcPWWzB34w/video.html This explains some of the legalities of owning a Sur ron
@T4 Tips & Guides do you have anything to back this up? Any links
@@T4TipsGuides”The law” is not law anyway. 😂😂😂 Held up by corrupted nonces and people like yourself 😂😂😂😂
I’m a Brit living in China, I ride my Surron around in the countryside here and never have any complaints from the locals. I don’t understand this mentality, if you are respectful what’s the problem?
Totally agree man. I bet riding in China is an experience!!ride safe man 👊
Yeah really amazing places to ride here, beaches and mountains
You're not taxed or insured tho?
👍
I can't wait to meet someone like baldy on our trails in surrey I'll leave him in the edge
Haha. Yea there’s a enough of them about lol.
baldys are just angry but harmless idiots
in the usa its def worth it most cops in big cities dont care
Good video buddy 👍🏼
Thanks man. Appreciate it 👊
enjoyed your vid bud
Thanks man. Appreciate it 👍
I’ve met a few people so far .. mixed reviews . Old woman are happy , blokes are little iffy as it’s not making a brrrr sound 🤣
😂😂
Fair do’s - you’re riding courteously and considerately. But….. not entirely legally. Rather than bitching about people pointing out the legalities and then deleting them, why not learn from the comments so it’s then a ‘calculated risk’ not simply going where you like and pleading ignorance? UK law on off-roading is a minefield and sometimes ambiguous so it always best to have a basic understanding, even if it’s to know which rules are worth breaking..😳
Ist good that you are taking time to actually learn about these bike on a machanical perspective. I am building a bike with a back panier so I can go out on long camping trails in the wilderness and camp out a few nights. Will just say this as you mentioned keyboard warriors and some one saying you give the Sur Ron community a bad name. Its not people like you, as you seem very resectful when out riding. Its the ones that ride through traffic doing wheelies on the road sometimes on the wrong side and on coming traffic has to swerve to miss these idiots. Just the other week I heard one of them ended up in hospitol and last year one was killed. Its not just the grieving families of the kids being killed its the drivers who suffer mantal trauma aswell. I hpe these great bikes do not get banned because of idiots who have no respect for others, If you got this far I enjoyed your video and agree with what you said.
Thanks man and thanks for your comment. Yea I totally agree with you. Good luck with your bike build!! 👊
The people who are complaining are jealous. i can not be jealous i am a new owner 😀 of an light bee x i can pick it up tomorrow.
In the Netherlands it is only legal with lights blinker mirrors and a licence plate and driving licence. Without licence and plate you can only drive on private property.
not jealous mate ,worried about 40 years of access battles being destroyed by selfish idiots who haven’t invested a minute of their time in that fight
Mate the most negative thing I can say is I'm 14 and hate that I can't have a surron because it cost to much but you can so unfair 😂 your surron looks so cool tho
Thanks man. Appreciate the comment.
i live in the uk im saving up to buy a sur ron i cant wait to finaly have my own keep the videos up i love watching
Thanks man. Hope u get one soon!! 👊
looking at getting one of these for my commute to the station. im wondering if i can take it on the train (over ground) nice video pal
considering you can't legally take it on the road or footpath, i expect if you can carry it then the train is probably the only place you can take it
Not too sure man. Worth checking with the train company👍
@@daypet1 🤣
Why,that’s easy.Because if it doesn’t have pedals it is a motorcycle,and if it is a motorcycle you should be insured,taxed street legal.Before I get branded a grumpy old git,I am a motorcyclist (35 years) A mountain biker ,bth normal bikes and ebikes,Limited to 15.5mph so assisted cycle.The problem are the idiots who ride everywhere,pavements footpaths,bridleways on unrestricted surons and piss everyone off ,I have loads of mates who motorcycle and e mtb and they cannot stand the suron riders who in our experience show very little respect to anyone whether on off road trails or pavements.
well said
Its because of the wave of youth riding them illegally in major uk cities
Agreed. However not all Surron owners are bad.
@@southcoastsurron I've seen one guy doing it legit with plates where I'm from (london) and bare in mind I'm on the road all the time. See people ballied up no helmet mortime on them
im not a surron rider yet still too young and in the uk, i will get there and the surron community is so nice but the thing thats scaring me off are boomers that cant mind their own buiseness
Yea you’re not going to please everyone but, I would say for every negative experience I have I then receive 10 positive. 👊
I'd like to ride one.. but I can understand why people on a quiet walk don't want a load of people tearing around on 50mph mtx bikes on footpaths. The only reason they're just passing is they're quiet.
Well... are you taxed and insured?
👍
@@southcoastsurron Glad to hear it.
Not worth it mine got robbed within a week
I've got a trek rail
Even that seems to annoy people
But one thing I'd say is for whatever reason when I see someone on a surron I automatically think "thief" 🤔
🤣 haha I know what you mean! I can assure you I am a law abiding citizen though lol
Don't see the problem you are being safe aware of others slowing down when necessary and just trying to have fun and live life real shame
Thanks man. Appreciate your comment
You're obviously not registered/road legal looking at the lack of stuff like blinkers etc, do you get harassed by the police? I'm looking at getting the road legal version in Aus, which is the L1E version. Curious of your police interactions if you're on the road.
You know this won,t last long make the most of it fella.
Do you have much trouble with the police with the surron thinking of getting one dude
Not really. Check out my last video. See how the police react to me riding it.
czcams.com/video/ugcPWWzB34w/video.html
I did as I sent the comment haha cheers for the help bro
You handled that really well mate I know where I would of told him to go. Great content to 🤙🏼
Thanks man. The thing is I want to ride in this area in the future and guess sometimes its better to kill them with kindness. Dont get me wrong though, the words coming out of my mouth were not the words I had in my head lol. Thanks for the support bro!
Why is everyone so angry?
I wonder?
Riding illegally maybe? Could that be it?
👍
✨the keyboard warrior✨
giving a thumbs up to someone who points out the bloody obvious ,shows that you are the prick everyone knows you to be.Respond to the criticism properly
hating on another person having relatively risk free fun. its just sad honestly uk needs zoloft or someshit
100%
See more these type fast e-bikes round my way the drug couriers love em
Man some old people and anything new... My god I mean its completely silent and making no smells and they STILL find a reason to hate it.
💯
I know how you feel brother, I’ve got a Vsett 10+ I’ve had for over a year and the amount of sadcase Karen’s I’ve encountered whilst riding is unreal. There’s a lot of miserable people out there.
Asking as your respectful and not harming anyone, I don’t see the problem. Ride safe man 👊
Keep blasting away i meant to say lol .
Thanks bro 👊
its funny how they say you cant be on here on a ..... and you see there head thinking well its a bike but its powered but im old and a fart and love moaning so il keep going always makes me lol
Haha yea I know what you mean! I guess there’s always gonna be a Karen trying to put their opinion across. 😂
some old people are just nuts, haters all the way