@@boostjunkie2320 the title is literally how to add 90hp... he then proceeded to show you how he added 90hp. if you think thats click bate and him being full of shit then you're literally just ignorant
Rocked my 306 , AFR xe274 , systemax intake for ten years, till the oil gauge started bouncing one day. Most of the c-clips on the roller rockers were gone...was cleaned out...dude adjusted the new rockers with the comp cam at stock half turn and argued with me about it (I couldn't remember) ... Wouldn't rev out, developed a miss, compression checked the cylinders they were all good, next morning went to pull it back in the shop and a titanium retainer come out from a broken valve spring , bent the rod cracked the liner, ripped the valve guide. Comp cam is a 1/4 turn , don't use titanium retainers on a street car. Damn squirrels.
I doubt half a turn of extra pre load is what broke a valve spring......besides pre load based on amount of turns past zero lash isn’t a definite. If you have 3/8 studs opposed to a 5/16 that 1/4 turn is a different amount of preload as there’s different amount of threads per inch. Actual pre load should be a number. Typical is around .020” and plenty of guys run more or less depending on preference. Hell you can run solid lifters and tight lash them and not have any issues. Maybe it was just her time to go.
@@DWBmotorsports Maybe. Maybe not. What I couldn't remember was the guy that got the motor running 10 years prior was haveing the same problem with it not wanting to rev out, and it broke studs, at the stock 1/2 turn till he figured out it was suppose to be 1/4. Car had hyd lifters. She still had good compression and good oil pressure. Still had cross hatchings in the bore. Valvoline racing oil. We were going to pull the valve covers when we were pulling it in.
@@joenobody2580 Way too many things point away from the few tenths of the adjustment to say that is what did it. You had valvetrain trouble on it already, and from your post, all you did was to replace the rockers and a spring and cleaned everything up. What made the rockers fail? Were the new rockers in alignment, and centered on the stem? Was a spring test done on the springs? Did they have coil bind? Were the guides checked? Etc. The valve stems could have been bent slightly from your description, and yes, a keeper could have failed with the age of them. The spring could have just fatigued and broke also from the age. Coil bind would be guess on the revs, too.
@@elmerfudpucker3204 don't take my word for it. I'm no engine builder. I took the word of the two gentlemen that were there, tearing it down, and the gentleman that originally got the car running and did all the maintenance for years. All three are highly qualified. I was just there, learning more than I cared to know about valve train, paying for the expensive mistake of an arrogant know it all.
Edelbrock has done this with the reg. Performer kit.( rec. 9 to 1 comp.) = 337Hp @ 5,500rpm, vs stock Efi H.O. 302 = 230Hp to 235Hp. I think Edelbrock has not done a complete Perf. Rpm 5.0 kit is because they dont have a cam in there line up to match, although they could have made one!? Heck, edelbrock didnt design the cam for the Reg. Performer package, its the Ford racing E303 cam! I think there Perf. Rpm cam specs should be 234 deg. @ .050 int., with .555 Lift, and 244 deg. @ .050 exh., with .570 Lift, on a 109° Lsa ( rec. 11 to 1 comp), that would be a great match to there Perf. Rpm 2 intake, and 2.02 Aluminum cyl. Heads! This package/combo on a 302 to 310cu. In. with free flowing exhaust system should make a nice pump gas friendly 400 +Hp!? Then i would have loved a more strip oriented Victor Efi 5.0 Combo, with ( rec. 13 to 1 compression ), solid roller cam 250 @ .050 int. with .600 lift, and 260 @ .050 exh. with .620 lift, on a 108° Lsa, using there Victor Jr. aluminum cyl. heads, along with the Victor 5.0 Efi intake, using 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 Ported high flow headers, and exh.= 500Hp Na potential!?
The low speed losses is more than offset by the huge gains up top. You won't miss that little bit of torque and power down low ecspecially with a good set of gearing out back like 373 or 410. You will DEFINATELY notice the big gains up top everytime you do WOT pulls to redline.
Id like to see a stockish explorer 5.0 used to test all the stock 5.0 intakes. Lopo, gt , truck and cobra/explorer. I know there probably isnt a huge variation, but it would be cool to see.
@@ryanblackwell8321 I think it's this one. 👇😁👇 Watch "5.0L FORD INTAKE TEST" on CZcams czcams.com/video/Cw4Z0rAdShs/video.html He also has "how to 200hp, 500hp, 600hp, 1000hp power combo/power recipe" vids for our 5.0 302s.
I'm unsure if it was neomustangs did Dyno on GT40 tube, Cobra and explorer but basically all was the same but that order they came out as tubular being best but talking about couple horse power difference between them. Personally I have the explorer and Cobra but went with explorer so I have it paint matched to my engine and Cobra to side
@@caaspal not yet..its ready though. Just been to busy at work. Dyno shop is 2 1/2 hours away... It's on a startup tune at the moment , it's very responsive!! I'm pretty confident it will make 350 to the tire.. Daily driver with ac
I think it was Fast Fords and Muscle Mustang magazine who dyno tested an Extrude Honed stock Mustang intake (pre 1993) and found it made the same power as a tubular GT40 intake. Ron Anderson Motorsports could also cut one up for you and play around with it. In another article i think they discovered the "low riser" thunderbird intake that showed up on the SN95's wasn't as bad as feared. Nearly all the "non breadbox" aftermarket intakes came in within a few hp, but the $1,000 Saleen intake really revealed a difference--and the Holley intake looks suspiciously similar in design. the thing is, it's never enough to just bolt on one part--engines like cars, operate as a system. the HO 302 has tiny head ports and valves, the stock lower intake bends the runners in the front around the EDIS distributor...if you want to see mods worth the money, you have to replace a few parts. Modern engines are built for efficiency from the factory, its not like the days of the Pontiacs where the Trans Am got a GTO engine but the exhaust system stole hp so you put on sidepipes, or the difference between the Corvette engine and the same engine in a Camaro or Chevelle was the high riser intake or you just replaced the 62cfm stock Carter 4 barrel with a double pumper Holley with mechanical secondaries and felt the difference in the small of your back
Well I would just take the motor out of it and crush the rest of the car lol. Unless you like a car that spins out of control at the drop of a dime has no brakes and rattles like hell
@@richardholdener1727 hey mate quick question for ya since I can't find the answer anywhere else, I'm looking at a 408ci L77 stroker build but I'm not sure if a (Duration @ .050 - INT 231 - EXT 243 Lobe Separation 113 +Adv Valve Lift INT 0.617 - EXT 0.623) cam is to small. If so what would be a more suitable to give me a lumpy/choppy idle yet a nice power curve upto around 45-5000rpm?... N/A build but will be looking into a centrifugal supercharger set up in the future.
@@MB-ib5ji a good carpenter NEVER blames his hammer . I have smoked Camaros and mustangs in pick up truck , the things you say ....are driver related not car ....period Your talentless if you can’t drive everything Even a farm tractor to the limit and past the limit .....you son have the fear......you’re not a driver
This video almost makes me want to go out and charge up the battery in my 5.0 Stroker BroncoII, top off the fluids, and clean it up from sitting all winter...😶
I would be very leery of that Comp camshaft if your car is geared like mine. Many times driving down the road and the AOD has shifted into top at 1500 RPM, and stays there even when its at 900 RPM. Chug chug chug.
As a 5th gen bronco owner, 96 was the first year of obd2 and anything 5.0 or 351w related I seem to gravitate towards.. 400 small block is my goal one day
I have to disagree the 4.6 2v can make similar power with a quality heads cams intake package like the trickflow one for example. Ecspecially if this is done to a non pi 2v as that raises the compression when you add pi heads or trickflow heads. They can easily get well over 300 rwhp and from 281 cubes. The 5.0 didn't do any better. With similar heads cam Intake setups on both with the same supporting mods they make similar power but I may give the edge to the 2v if its the non pi version that will end up at like 10.5:1 compression when upgraded to pi heads or similar. The 2v isnt quite the turd everyone makes it out to be just needs the right setup. Idk why everyone praises the 302 but downs the 2v when they make similar power stock and modded if modded similar the difference is the 2v don't need an aftermarket block to reliably stay together north of 500 rwhp (I am assuming both cars have forged internals) i aint hating on the pushrods at all I love them too but the 4.6 can gain some big time power with the right mods just like the 302 did.
@@midnight347 This is all true, but to do this to a mod motor is at substantially higher cost. Pushrod engines are more budget friendly and a smaller overall package, thus fit into more places than the HUGE mod motor.
I really wish we could test the long runner truck 5.0 plenum ( dual TB ) especially since there is an edelbrock performer version.. as well as larger TB upgrade I just really want to see the torque / mid range difference compared to Mustang styles.
Actually i just watched the custom runner length vid on the 4.6.. LOL 66 ft lbs more at 3300.. I would go so far as to say the efi truck plenum may have a 40 ft lb or so advantage on a modified engine over mustang style? Ive thought about playing with a phenolic spacer / tb spacer to make it even longer since I port mached the plenum to the lower and opened the tb ports for the 62mm.. Hoping I didnt kill that torque velocity but everything else is modified and a 280 / 290 cam 472 496. (Its a good 1500 to 5500 low to mid power cam).. Either way every ft lb (and where it is) on the truck is necessity
I would enjoy seeing how to add low end torque to the 302. I understand that this channel is "geared" to the Fox body Mustang but the 302 is a great candidate for engine swaps in small vehicles because it is so compact. Case in point, I have a 302 out of an Explorer in a 1967 Nissan Patrol 4x4 with 37" tires. I need as much low end torque as I can get.
@@smoke_oguwop there are some videos where Richard holdener talk about porting heads at home with a Dremel tool or something like that. So i think is not the same if machine shops do the porting.
Omar the changes expressed in your comment should have some positive results very similar to the data from Richards dyno session. The term “slightly ported” shouldn’t be a mystery because it typically suggests a general cleanup of any casting flash or ridges that protrude into the intake tract , possibly causing decreased or irregular intake charge flow. Port matching would be good to include with “slightly ported” heads and intake manifold. A good Dremel tool with plenty of extra sanding and polishing rolls or a die grinder works well for port clean up. Some of the first power tools I bought when my shop was new during the early eighties was a Craftsman electric die grinder with plenty of accessories, a compressor large enough to power various pneumatic grinders and the trusty Dremel Tool for light duty grinding. I use 351 Cleveland type heads for most of my builds and while the iron 4-V heads have plenty of intake runner volume as cast, there’s always plenty of port cleanup and matching to do to optimize flow velocity. Richard mentioned the Extrude Hone process in his video and while I don’t have access to one of the machines, the extrude honing abrasives embedded in the dense putty-like carrier media can remove controlled amounts of aluminum or iron very smoothly and evenly as the machine forces it through the ports. You might say the Extrude Hone process can slightly port or hog it out until trouble comes 😳.
@@danielwilson6665 that's what I tried to say when I'm mentioned slightly ported, but I'm new to this, I have a 4 banger to use as a guinea pig and hopefully if I can slightly port the head and of I don't mess it up then I'm going to move to my Mustang 302 to do the same to the Restricted flow E7 heads. But I really want to to build a 351 with GT40 heads, that's why I'm wondering what can be achieved with that combo.
I used to own a 2.0l Alfa with a 4.3 diff in it and even driving stupid on the street I rarely went above 4,500. Anything above that was for those one off first and second gear straight line runs or for the track, but for law plus 20% corner to corner driving 4,500 was the most it ever saw from 2nd up. Look at 6:36 for example. Now look at 3,700 rpm. The the blue curve is about 20 Horsepower higher than the red and about 30 ft.lb more. Right smack in the middle of where you use it on the street.
I heard, don't quote me, but before the explorer intake was discovered the 5.0 f150 intake was used with some heavy porting and sometimes welding of a runner or two to increase its size for porting.
the 302 truck intake flows similarly to the GT40 intakes. the Holley Systemax-II lower intake is based on the truck lower. im currious what the flow difference is between the S-II vs stock truck 5.0 lower vs ported would be.
I noticed that peak power was up but in the range that you would normally driving had a loss. Nobody drives at 5000 RPM on the street under normal operation so in the every day driving you have a loss of torque and horsepower. If you are looking at all out performance then maybe that works but I think that you still lose of the line torque.
On my street stang , I got the BBK SSI . I've heard it all , the fuel rails that came with it leaks, not that great.. I got Dino numbers that it out performed the cobra intake. As far as the fuel rails I guess it's who's installing them. I've had that intake on the car since 2005 with a Paxton. Love the performance
Quick shout-out to nivlac 57! Can't wait till you guys get together and put the 4200 on the map!!! kind of funny though I saw a old 30s hot rod with a 4200 in it from 14 years ago true pioneer lol... PS. Old 5.0 rule🇺🇸
Wonder how that edelbrock would have fared if the ports had been fixed at the upper to lower mating areas. They're normally shrunk down pretty good there, and the CNC machining doesn't go into the port far enough to open it up all the way.
Hi Richard, love your ford post, I have a 5.0L Explorer 1999 ,What ignition system do you run ? The factory has anti theft and all stuff , just wondering if there's an easier way? Like a MSD or something like that. Thanks
Its funny hearing you talk about this topic. I remember back in the early 90’s when the fox was the go to for everyone and all the parts companies would advertise their parts would give a 9hp gain, a 21hp gain, etc, etc,etc…….yet everybody that bought those parts and bolted them on ALWAYS said their otherwise (nearly) bone stock combo didnt make the advertised gains. You are basically rehashing an advertising ploy from back in the day. A lot of manufacturers would say they get a 9hp gain, but never said what hp they started with. An extra 9hp from 400 is a minor gain, while 9hp from a 175hp baseline is significant. I worked in a shop that did dyno tuning and customers made these statements a whole lot of the time. Lol Then again, back then, the manufacturers of the parts would list power gains at the crank and we had one of the few wheel dynos, so the disparity was that much larger. It was comical, to a point.
not intake related exactly, but I've been seeing a lot of posts lately on the SBF page on FB of people asking about using speedmaster. i know you did a video for them a while back that i believe i saw on their channel, but didn't see anything on yours.. i would love to see a Big Bang video of an all SpeedMaster parts SBF (preferably since that's where I'm seeing it posted). i know they make a 4 bolt main block, rods, pistons, heads, intake, etc.. use as many parts as possible that they make and do a detailed video on what was well made, what to look out for, if its worth the money, etc.. and most importantly.. how much power can it make.
@@richardholdener1727 awwwww.. so does that mean this is something you wouldn't consider dong a video on then i guess.. not "big bang" titled i guess.. i want someone reputable to actually test these parts how because all i can seem to find is back and forth on forums. its outside of my budget to risk the gamble on them. thanks for the response though.
How does the explorer computer compare to the A9L computer? I’m kinda thinking about building an explorer engine for my 72 Ranger XLT and swapping to fuel injection… Also what manual transmission would you recommend for that swap? I had a borg Warner T5 in my old 89 coupe Mustang and then swapped to the world class T5 and it was so much better… I’m a new subscriber and I love your channel btw…👍🏼✌🏼
An intake isn't gonna do a whole lot on a stock engine as the heads and cam hold it back. You can't just do heads or intake or cam either one separate from the others and expect big gains. The gains are in matching the combo correctly. That is how he picked up 90 hp going to the rpm 2 that car already has nice heads nice cam and other supporting mods and was being majorly restricted by the stock intake. That is how the manufacturers got their advertisement slogans back in the day like "add up to 90 whp with this intake upgrade!!" LOL. Only way it's gaining 90 is in an extreme situation. Like this where everything else but the intake is optimized thus uncorked the problem stock intake with a better one results in big power. Systemax isn't gonna do much on a stock engine. The heads and cam will be holding it back. This is common knowledge known forever. However you stick one on a car with optimized heads and cam itll pick up big power like this rpm 2 did
@@midnight347 I totally get that, and engine is a parametric box. But the intake by itself will show you the actual difference in power between a stock manifold and an aftermarket. Problem is when you only keep the short block and change literally everything else you see the gain caused by the combination of all three partd, you never see what each component is actually worth. Of course factory heads only flow so much, but not everyone has a couple grand for their top end. So someone on a budget could really benefit from seeing a good intake swap to get more power, or a a good cam swap on a stock block, that kind of thing. Yes you'll always gain the most by putting on big flowing heads, and intake with a free flowing exhaust, but some of us are working with what we have and what we can afford. I love watching Richard because he shows you the progression, but he doesn't spend enough time on the stock components before making a jump to a complete top end. Ask guys who were around building cars 40 years ago a cam swap, a nice aluminum intake, headers, and a good carb will do a lot for a motor, but we rarely see this, the videos go from stock to a Summit Racing commercial too quickly.
@@aprules2 I get what you're saying but that is a flawed way if thinking. Testing them on a stock engine gives advantage to the stock intake because it was designed to work with those parts. The holley is gonna be majorly handicapped by being ran on a stock engine and won't be able to show what it's capable of. On a stock engine it would prob gain 20 whp if I were guessing but that's not to say it's only 20 horse better. A test like this actually really shows the difference between them because everything is optimized where both intakes can make the max power they're capable of making so you get to see the true difference which is alot. Doing it on stock engine heavily favors the stock intake resulting in not that much difference when there is really a huge difference. Make sense?
Wow well then I need to change my set up then ,just a set a good heads they say , I have a Bcam ,306ci,24lb injector with the same rpm2 but heads lower and upper intake are ported
Richard, I’m an LS guy. I’ve got a 1990 e250 4x4 with a 302 in it. It runs perfect and does surprisingly well. SHE NEEDS MORE. The frustrating part is EVERYTHING. The shittiest part is tuning it. For the cost of heads, cam, tune, I could damn near Ls swap it. I’d be fine with another 100hp. Got any cheap “secrets” to milk more outta the lil 5.0?
Horsepower is very expensive,usually when you listen to young kids that are getting into hot rodding cars you hear things like this "yeah i heard if you put a chip in your car you will get 100 horsepower" or "i hear if you put pulleys you'll get 60 horsepower" alas if would be nice if it was that easy, when you put some really nice free flowing heads in your car that just cost 1200 dollars and thats not even installed yet you might get 50 horses,like i said, its expensive, a combination of many things will get you there, a nice intake might be good for 10/15 horses and thats pushing it. This is all old school stuff and nothing to do with new 'miracle horsepower" like with new cars being built today where they get 500 horsepower out of a Toyota Camry,lol,thats another story for another day.
Hey Richard instead of a throttle body can you add a 90 degree elbow to the intake and add a carburetor..or is it to much work to get a square 90 degree elbow for the carburetor and intake to bolt on...or try a side draft carb
This is a great video you're going to do apples and oranges but if you do it Apples to Apples this is not a good video because you're mixing things up go stock and then do changes on the intake
Steve at powertrain dynamics said I would get 40 if not 50 from my combination since I have a ported cobra manifold and now I cam see why. I have 331strocker strocker with AFR heads and x303 cam. I'm for sure going to put a rpm 2 on it
You may want to upgrade that camshaft too. The alphabet cams are horrible in comparison to modern camshaft designs. Richard did a test back in the day and the B can only picked up 7 horsepower over the stock cam😱 something like an XE274 would make more power everywhere and would probably improve driveability over the x cam
What about on a turbo stock-ish 5.0? Do you have data showing how much each modification changes the output for on like an 8 or 10 psi boost setting? That'd be interesting to me. I usually err on the side of just letting boost do all the work until the block lets go but i've always wondered how much a cam or an intake or a throttle body or whatever would help. I imagine heads make the biggest difference.
I have a TFS Track Heat EFi on my forged internals 331, stock block AFR 185 head small block ford running 9.0 compression. Does the TFS intake hold its own compared to Edelbrock? The other question regards boost: can this combination get to 600 HP with pump gas (66-72 mm turbo for quick spool intercooled), or will high octane be a must? Love the videos. I learn something from each one! Thanks!
@@richardholdener1727 So toss the 8.2 and go 408. Make 500 hp on motor, then add 10 lbs of boost. If it did not live in a factory 5 "roadster" it would probably be an LS by now. Thanks for the reply!
Ok what’s your opinion. Stock 89 5.0 HO running long tube headers with 2.5 “ exhaust and yes running 2.5” cats as well and also running timing gears instead of timing chain. Looking to upgrade my intake to compliment the exhaust. What’s your opinion on what I should be looking at. I’ve been eye balling the Holley setup but afraid it’s too much intake
Always wondered how all the aftermarket manifolds performed. Have a ported cobra. How about doing a max carb legal motor? That's what I was trying to do with my 347/s/trim.
@@johndoe-zb8bm I got a set cheap and brand new cleaned up the ports a lot . I know they flow a bunch better than anything stock just been looking for anyone that has run them on a dyno . There's a channel that had a set on a fox body and was happy with the gains . The castings look pretty good . Anyways I'm sure they are junk...so what's your personal experience with a set ?
@@macenbarmore1900 The heads themselves are okay,I had problems with the hardware. I sent them back. But I seen a guy have good luck with them on CZcams! I might have gotten a bad pair..
Hi Richard, have you ever taken any interest int the toyota 2zzge engines or toyota 2grfe engines ? (2zzge are lotus elise-exige 4cyl) and 2grfe is lotus evora v6 but are both available in basic toyotas in scrap yards.
@@richardholdener1727 any chance you would be interested in putting the reversed piston debate to bed? Seems like you are a disinterested party and, of course, highly respected. Tony says he will send you a motor!
Richard, What was the external combustion system used years ago in California? I remember there was a news report where the police were trying to warn the public about how dangerous they were to use . It was bolted to the front of the engine it looked like an extra cylinder and piston .
Hey have you tested the older eldebrock intakes where you could remove the back plate on the upper intake and mess with the port work there I know they don’t make the longer runner style of that intake anymore professional products makes that style now and edlebrock only makes the shorter runner style been seriously thinking about messing with my long runner style to shorten a bit but not go completely short like the short style possibly be a interesting video?
@@ryangulley2051 I was mostly being a smart ass about that intake adding 90hp. Most of the good bolt-ons didn’t happen until 89 when they got rid of speed density and went to mass air. Junkyard explorer intakes, heads and 3.73’s were the ticket for us poor folk back in the day.
I've had 5.0s in Crown Vics and trucks that weren't the HO version. I wished they had more power, but didn't want to go deep into the motor because they were my daily drivers. What would this intake, with no other changes, do on a stock LO (Low Output! 🤣) 5.0?
@@richardholdener1727 Yes, I did watch. You said it yourself, you tested 3 different combinations of things. Starting at 10:35 you summarize. Your title makes it sound like intake change alone may yield 90hp, then you sneakily show that if you take a stock engine and change a bunch of stuff out and THEN also change the intake you'll get upwards of +90. That's a deceiving and unscientific test method if you're going to lead with that title. You really didn't get +90 from the intake, you simply got back some of what you failed to get with your other upgrades because you didn't upgrade everything together in logical fashion. You're not the first to do such a thing. Almost every motor show on cable tv these days pulls a similar stunt..."Look at us, we got +50 hp with new exhaust and air filter" (but they also changed the heads, ignition, intake, etc)
Start buy selling that 5 liter and get a 5.8 liter!! Mae those upgrades to a 5.8! Been there, done that ! The 5.8 will make the same thing at 6000 that the 5.o at 7000! Been there, done that! Its much easier to just start out with a 5.8, 351w! You get half sn on more stroke, nearly an inch longer rods! Do you actually understand the math? It bolts in with the same mounts, has a much stronger block, better rod stroke ratio, and be stroked to 7 literes! We've raced both of these motors! A 357w will make the same hp at 600o that a high strung 5 liter at 6000 rpm! We rsn a premium cast piston Windsor for 3 years on 150 shot for 3 years! Used solid lifter cam! Had $500 in the short block! Ran fully ported 289 heads, then upgreated to victor jr hesds! Less that 2 thenths! Ran 6:50s with the professional ported heads, in thev1/8 mile! With junk!! Ran 6:38 with victor jr! Afrer weeks of tuming, ran 6.29, for $1200 dollars? Dollar for Dallar, is it worth it?
Hi Richard and followers what would be the best manifold and injectors to convert to a single turbo build? Manual currently a carby motor but doing homework on next upgrade path.
@@richardholdener1727 thankyou brother I really appreciate your time I've watched he'd most of your videos but they are so full of information it's hard to retain everything. Cheers again.
@@richardholdener1727 Maybe in the future we will get another one. Super interested in the extrude honed products. Want to keep my engine looking stock to anybody that looks at it. Planning on big dog port to stock heads intake. They said they shorten the runners. Extrude honed sounds like it would work best because of the process it they could port the entire length of the runners. So many choices....
The article was in one of his books that I have. On a STOCK 302, extrude hone added power everywhere. But mostly in the 4-5K range-- it added 11 HP. At 5300 RPM the manifold fell off a cliff because of the runner length. Should get his E-books, they are on Google Play.
@@S.Matt240 shortening the runners on a 302-308 results in significant loos of power in the mid range. We've done it and if I could I'd post the dyno and track data.
No universal answer. You optimize inlets for different engine speeds. If you go something in the middle then you give away other top end or low end. Its a compromise game ( unless you made your own infinitely variable set up)
@@richardholdener1727 ✋😁 raising my hand to ask a question. My '88 GT is 100% still stock (amazingly). What is my biggest choker on the high end? Is it: Ignition? Ecu? Heads/intake? Fuel? Cam? I know it's all designed to work together. I'm just wondering what's the biggest *single* thing keeping me down on the high end. Thanks!
What if you add 125shot of nitrous? I know the stock 302 iron blocks can handle up to 450-550 before splitting down the valley. Also, maybe you could address the main block girdle. And if that works to help keep the block together with that much power. Thanks
Richard has shown they will hold more power than that. I have heard it's actually the 5.0 becoming a stressed member in foxbodies that haven't had their chassis stiffened, also harder/solid motor mounts are a bad idea. The flex in the chassis on a hard launch rips the block down the valley.
@@Silverfang15 Twisting "frames" is what splits blocks? 1st time i hear this. How far would you push an '88 roller block? What about an older Mex block for example?
So what did we learn? We learned that you have to change everything from the cam up, to make a significant gain in HP just by changing the intakes.
We also learned that it was a LONG time ago when this information was all presented in articles in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords lol 😝
who do you think provided the info in MM&FF?
Richard was modifying 5.0 truck intakes for these in the very early 90s. I have photos that I took at his shop.
@@richardholdener1727 The intake was not 90hp bolt on by itself.
Pure clickbait
You CZcamsrs are so full of shit just for some view's.
@@boostjunkie2320 the title is literally how to add 90hp... he then proceeded to show you how he added 90hp. if you think thats click bate and him being full of shit then you're literally just ignorant
Rocked my 306 , AFR xe274 , systemax intake for ten years, till the oil gauge started bouncing one day. Most of the c-clips on the roller rockers were gone...was cleaned out...dude adjusted the new rockers with the comp cam at stock half turn and argued with me about it (I couldn't remember) ... Wouldn't rev out, developed a miss, compression checked the cylinders they were all good, next morning went to pull it back in the shop and a titanium retainer come out from a broken valve spring , bent the rod cracked the liner, ripped the valve guide. Comp cam is a 1/4 turn , don't use titanium retainers on a street car. Damn squirrels.
I doubt half a turn of extra pre load is what broke a valve spring......besides pre load based on amount of turns past zero lash isn’t a definite. If you have 3/8 studs opposed to a 5/16 that 1/4 turn is a different amount of preload as there’s different amount of threads per inch. Actual pre load should be a number. Typical is around .020” and plenty of guys run more or less depending on preference. Hell you can run solid lifters and tight lash them and not have any issues. Maybe it was just her time to go.
@@DWBmotorsports Maybe. Maybe not. What I couldn't remember was the guy that got the motor running 10 years prior was haveing the same problem with it not wanting to rev out, and it broke studs, at the stock 1/2 turn till he figured out it was suppose to be 1/4. Car had hyd lifters. She still had good compression and good oil pressure. Still had cross hatchings in the bore. Valvoline racing oil. We were going to pull the valve covers when we were pulling it in.
@@joenobody2580 Way too many things point away from the few tenths of the adjustment to say that is what did it. You had valvetrain trouble on it already, and from your post, all you did was to replace the rockers and a spring and cleaned everything up. What made the rockers fail? Were the new rockers in alignment, and centered on the stem? Was a spring test done on the springs? Did they have coil bind? Were the guides checked? Etc.
The valve stems could have been bent slightly from your description, and yes, a keeper could have failed with the age of them. The spring could have just fatigued and broke also from the age. Coil bind would be guess on the revs, too.
@@elmerfudpucker3204 don't take my word for it. I'm no engine builder. I took the word of the two gentlemen that were there, tearing it down, and the gentleman that originally got the car running and did all the maintenance for years. All three are highly qualified. I was just there, learning more than I cared to know about valve train, paying for the expensive mistake of an arrogant know it all.
It would be great to see the 5.0 stock vs the entire edlebrock rpm kit.
Edelbrock has done this with the reg. Performer kit.( rec. 9 to 1 comp.) = 337Hp @ 5,500rpm, vs stock Efi H.O. 302 = 230Hp to 235Hp. I think Edelbrock has not done a complete Perf. Rpm 5.0 kit is because they dont have a cam in there line up to match, although they could have made one!? Heck, edelbrock didnt design the cam for the Reg. Performer package, its the Ford racing E303 cam! I think there Perf. Rpm cam specs should be 234 deg. @ .050 int., with .555 Lift, and 244 deg. @ .050 exh., with .570 Lift, on a 109° Lsa ( rec. 11 to 1 comp), that would be a great match to there Perf. Rpm 2 intake, and 2.02 Aluminum cyl. Heads! This package/combo on a 302 to 310cu. In. with free flowing exhaust system should make a nice pump gas friendly 400 +Hp!? Then i would have loved a more strip oriented Victor Efi 5.0 Combo, with ( rec. 13 to 1 compression ), solid roller cam 250 @ .050 int. with .600 lift, and 260 @ .050 exh. with .620 lift, on a 108° Lsa, using there Victor Jr. aluminum cyl. heads, along with the Victor 5.0 Efi intake, using 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 Ported high flow headers, and exh.= 500Hp Na potential!?
The low speed losses is more than offset by the huge gains up top. You won't miss that little bit of torque and power down low ecspecially with a good set of gearing out back like 373 or 410. You will DEFINATELY notice the big gains up top everytime you do WOT pulls to redline.
Why didn't you modify the gt 40 intake for an even comparison
this answers my question... not worth it on stock heads... need to do multiple upgrades to really get it to be a major factor.
Id like to see a stockish explorer 5.0 used to test all the stock 5.0 intakes. Lopo, gt , truck and cobra/explorer. I know there probably isnt a huge variation, but it would be cool to see.
Also like to see the carb options compared to the efi intakes
He's has a video on all that
@@xmo552 any idea how far back it was?
@@ryanblackwell8321
I think it's this one.
👇😁👇
Watch "5.0L FORD INTAKE TEST" on CZcams
czcams.com/video/Cw4Z0rAdShs/video.html
He also has "how to 200hp, 500hp, 600hp, 1000hp power combo/power recipe" vids for our 5.0 302s.
I'm unsure if it was neomustangs did Dyno on GT40 tube, Cobra and explorer but basically all was the same but that order they came out as tubular being best but talking about couple horse power difference between them. Personally I have the explorer and Cobra but went with explorer so I have it paint matched to my engine and Cobra to side
If you tested all the stock ported parts from Bigdogs porting that would be so cool
Yes, 100%. I'm about to pull the trigger on a full work over of the stock intake and heads from Big Dog. I wanna keep the stock look on the motor
I'm running his port work on a stock bottom end 302.
@@19jody72 did you dyno the setup?
@@caaspal not yet..its ready though. Just been to busy at work. Dyno shop is 2 1/2 hours away...
It's on a startup tune at the moment , it's very responsive!! I'm pretty confident it will make 350 to the tire.. Daily driver with ac
@@19jody72 awesome dude, don’t forget to tell me the numbers when you get it done haha. Their port work seems pretty incredible to me
I think it was Fast Fords and Muscle Mustang magazine who dyno tested an Extrude Honed stock Mustang intake (pre 1993) and found it made the same power as a tubular GT40 intake. Ron Anderson Motorsports could also cut one up for you and play around with it. In another article i think they discovered the "low riser" thunderbird intake that showed up on the SN95's wasn't as bad as feared. Nearly all the "non breadbox" aftermarket intakes came in within a few hp, but the $1,000 Saleen intake really revealed a difference--and the Holley intake looks suspiciously similar in design.
the thing is, it's never enough to just bolt on one part--engines like cars, operate as a system. the HO 302 has tiny head ports and valves, the stock lower intake bends the runners in the front around the EDIS distributor...if you want to see mods worth the money, you have to replace a few parts. Modern engines are built for efficiency from the factory, its not like the days of the Pontiacs where the Trans Am got a GTO engine but the exhaust system stole hp so you put on sidepipes, or the difference between the Corvette engine and the same engine in a Camaro or Chevelle was the high riser intake or you just replaced the 62cfm stock Carter 4 barrel with a double pumper Holley with mechanical secondaries and felt the difference in the small of your back
I love the intro music it makes me wanna dance
Yeah can't ever change it now its so iconic to these videos
Suddenly want to dig the foxbody back out...
Well I would just take the motor out of it and crush the rest of the car lol. Unless you like a car that spins out of control at the drop of a dime has no brakes and rattles like hell
@@MB-ib5ji foxbodys only need driven by people who can actually drive a car. which probally isnt you. Lol.
I've been 196 mph in mine-over 170 mph for 30 minutes straight-they work well
@@richardholdener1727 hey mate quick question for ya since I can't find the answer anywhere else, I'm looking at a 408ci L77 stroker build but I'm not sure if a (Duration @ .050 - INT 231 - EXT 243
Lobe Separation 113 +Adv
Valve Lift INT 0.617 - EXT 0.623) cam is to small. If so what would be a more suitable to give me a lumpy/choppy idle yet a nice power curve upto around 45-5000rpm?... N/A build but will be looking into a centrifugal supercharger set up in the future.
@@MB-ib5ji a good carpenter NEVER blames his hammer . I have smoked Camaros and mustangs in pick up truck , the things you say ....are driver related not car ....period Your talentless if you can’t drive everything Even a farm tractor to the limit and past the limit .....you son have the fear......you’re not a driver
I used to work for a company back in the late 80s that machined those intakes in Livonia ,Mi. Using machines called Mori- seki CNC machinery.
Would love to have one with the programming.
This video almost makes me want to go out and charge up the battery in my 5.0 Stroker BroncoII, top off the fluids, and clean it up from sitting all winter...😶
1980- 1991 Crown Victorias you will have your 🙏 prayer 🛐 answered finally nice upgrade.
I would be very leery of that Comp camshaft if your car is geared like mine. Many times driving down the road and the AOD has shifted into top at 1500 RPM, and stays there even when its at 900 RPM. Chug chug chug.
Good stuff! I put the Explorer intake on my 5.0 (non-HO but had an HO intake) and felt a good bit of power gains.
As a 5th gen bronco owner, 96 was the first year of obd2 and anything 5.0 or 351w related I seem to gravitate towards.. 400 small block is my goal one day
Would be cool to see Rich build a junkyard version of Evan Smiths 302 engine , I always liked those stocker builds with all lil those sneaky tricks 👍🏼
Never realized how well the old 5.0 responded to mods. So much better then the later 4.6
I have to disagree the 4.6 2v can make similar power with a quality heads cams intake package like the trickflow one for example. Ecspecially if this is done to a non pi 2v as that raises the compression when you add pi heads or trickflow heads. They can easily get well over 300 rwhp and from 281 cubes. The 5.0 didn't do any better. With similar heads cam Intake setups on both with the same supporting mods they make similar power but I may give the edge to the 2v if its the non pi version that will end up at like 10.5:1 compression when upgraded to pi heads or similar. The 2v isnt quite the turd everyone makes it out to be just needs the right setup. Idk why everyone praises the 302 but downs the 2v when they make similar power stock and modded if modded similar the difference is the 2v don't need an aftermarket block to reliably stay together north of 500 rwhp (I am assuming both cars have forged internals) i aint hating on the pushrods at all I love them too but the 4.6 can gain some big time power with the right mods just like the 302 did.
@@midnight347 This is all true, but to do this to a mod motor is at substantially higher cost. Pushrod engines are more budget friendly and a smaller overall package, thus fit into more places than the HUGE mod motor.
I would have loved to see a back to back comparison between Holly and the RPM2 intakes.
I grew up in the 5.0 days and the absolute best intake for a 5.0 is a carb'd intake.
Yayyy.. someone from the 90's come to spread their 90's tech ideas.
@@superkillr ....The slow guy enters the chat.....
I enjoy listening to your videos and thr graphs are very helpful. Especially what not to do. The stock stuff works well.
I really wish we could test the long runner truck 5.0 plenum ( dual TB ) especially since there is an edelbrock performer version.. as well as larger TB upgrade I just really want to see the torque / mid range difference compared to Mustang styles.
Actually i just watched the custom runner length vid on the 4.6.. LOL 66 ft lbs more at 3300.. I would go so far as to say the efi truck plenum may have a 40 ft lb or so advantage on a modified engine over mustang style? Ive thought about playing with a phenolic spacer / tb spacer to make it even longer since I port mached the plenum to the lower and opened the tb ports for the 62mm.. Hoping I didnt kill that torque velocity but everything else is modified and a 280 / 290 cam 472 496. (Its a good 1500 to 5500 low to mid power cam).. Either way every ft lb (and where it is) on the truck is necessity
The fact that it'll add another 95 ft lbs up at 5k rpm while retaining over 300lbft on tap at the low rpms that's neck snapping.
I would enjoy seeing how to add low end torque to the 302. I understand that this channel is "geared" to the Fox body Mustang but the 302 is a great candidate for engine swaps in small vehicles because it is so compact. Case in point, I have a 302 out of an Explorer in a 1967 Nissan Patrol 4x4 with 37" tires. I need as much low end torque as I can get.
Add gearing or displacement. That is the easiest solution. A set of 410 gears front and rear will give it all the low end grunt it needs.
I would like to see power numbers with GT40 heads slightly ported with all the other mods like the cam and trickflow intake manifold
How do you slightly port it
@@smoke_oguwop there are some videos where Richard holdener talk about porting heads at home with a Dremel tool or something like that.
So i think is not the same if machine shops do the porting.
@@smoke_oguwop are you serious
Omar the changes expressed in your comment should have some positive results very similar to the data from Richards dyno session. The term “slightly ported” shouldn’t be a mystery because it typically suggests a general cleanup of any casting flash or ridges that protrude into the intake tract , possibly causing decreased or irregular intake charge flow. Port matching would be good to include with “slightly ported” heads and intake manifold.
A good Dremel tool with plenty of extra sanding and polishing rolls or a die grinder works well for port clean up. Some of the first power tools I bought when my shop was new during the early eighties was a Craftsman electric die grinder with plenty of accessories, a compressor large enough to power various pneumatic grinders and the trusty Dremel Tool for light duty grinding.
I use 351 Cleveland type heads for most of my builds and while the iron 4-V heads have plenty of intake runner volume as cast, there’s always plenty of port cleanup and matching to do to optimize flow velocity.
Richard mentioned the Extrude Hone process in his video and while I don’t have access to one of the machines, the extrude honing abrasives embedded in the dense putty-like carrier media can remove controlled amounts of aluminum or iron very smoothly and evenly as the machine forces it through the ports.
You might say the Extrude Hone process can slightly port or hog it out until trouble comes 😳.
@@danielwilson6665 that's what I tried to say when I'm mentioned slightly ported, but I'm new to this, I have a 4 banger to use as a guinea pig and hopefully if I can slightly port the head and of I don't mess it up then I'm going to move to my Mustang 302 to do the same to the Restricted flow E7 heads.
But I really want to to build a 351 with GT40 heads, that's why I'm wondering what can be achieved with that combo.
200K Subscribers! Great job dude 😎🤘🍺🥳
I used to own a 2.0l Alfa with a 4.3 diff in it and even driving stupid on the street I rarely went above 4,500. Anything above that was for those one off first and second gear straight line runs or for the track, but for law plus 20% corner to corner driving 4,500 was the most it ever saw from 2nd up.
Look at 6:36 for example. Now look at 3,700 rpm. The the blue curve is about 20 Horsepower higher than the red and about 30 ft.lb more. Right smack in the middle of where you use it on the street.
that's why I show the whole curve
Thanks again, great video. Would have been fun to see vs a carb setup. Edlebrock performer RPM with a 650 or 750 carb. Thank you!
Thanks for all your time and effort.
Looks like I did pretty good. Built a 306 with 200cc dart iron heads and Saleen intake. Made 392hp to the wheels. Had t56.
392 WHEEL HP?
@@richardholdener1727 yes on chassis dyno. The heads and lower intake were hand ported. Upper was extrude honed.
Tough one to believe unless it was peaking at like 7000rpm...
@@superkillr 200cc heads are pretty fucking big for a small block. Not that unbelievable.
This is crazy! Love my Windsors
It would be interesting including the 5.0 EFI intake from the F150 to see how it performs
I heard, don't quote me, but before the explorer intake was discovered the 5.0 f150 intake was used with some heavy porting and sometimes welding of a runner or two to increase its size for porting.
the 302 truck intake flows similarly to the GT40 intakes. the Holley Systemax-II lower intake is based on the truck lower. im currious what the flow difference is between the S-II vs stock truck 5.0 lower vs ported would be.
@@a4channoob that is the same thing i have been wondering about
I noticed that peak power was up but in the range that you would normally driving had a loss. Nobody drives at 5000 RPM on the street under normal operation so in the every day driving you have a loss of torque and horsepower. If you are looking at all out performance then maybe that works but I think that you still lose of the line torque.
Sweet test Richard!
The stock 5.0 HO intake is tiny on the head flange side plus the runners change directions abruptly.
the stock HO is tiny and long
On my street stang , I got the BBK SSI . I've heard it all , the fuel rails that came with it leaks, not that great.. I got Dino numbers that it out performed the cobra intake. As far as the fuel rails I guess it's who's installing them. I've had that intake on the car since 2005 with a Paxton. Love the performance
Reading the foxbody people’s minds.
Much thanks for info given.
Your great. Thanks for your work!
My friend gained 200 hp over stock with one simple trick. Changed the mustang for an dodge charger. Oh man he was so happy.
he could of on3 turbocharged it and gt40 intake and it would smoke a charger unless it’s a hellcat
And it cost him only!!! 50 thousand dollars lol...
Quick shout-out to nivlac 57! Can't wait till you guys get together and put the 4200 on the map!!! kind of funny though I saw a old 30s hot rod with a 4200 in it from 14 years ago true pioneer lol... PS. Old 5.0 rule🇺🇸
All that money into that relic vs just buying a used coyote v8 and harness plus ECU is slightly more money but significantly more HP lol
Wonder how that edelbrock would have fared if the ports had been fixed at the upper to lower mating areas. They're normally shrunk down pretty good there, and the CNC machining doesn't go into the port far enough to open it up all the way.
Thanks for this test
Awesome! Just in time for me to be doing the swap! 🇺🇸💪🏼
Please start saying XR8 falcon instead of mustang every now and then for us Aussies Richo!!
will do mate!
Hi Richard, love your ford post, I have a 5.0L Explorer 1999 ,What ignition system do you run ? The factory has anti theft and all stuff , just wondering if there's an easier way? Like a MSD or something like that. Thanks
we ran a Holley HP ECU
I have the 1994 lightning top end still trying to get the throttle body off the aluminum intake lol for my 1994 mustang gt
Its funny hearing you talk about this topic. I remember back in the early 90’s when the fox was the go to for everyone and all the parts companies would advertise their parts would give a 9hp gain, a 21hp gain, etc, etc,etc…….yet everybody that bought those parts and bolted them on ALWAYS said their otherwise (nearly) bone stock combo didnt make the advertised gains.
You are basically rehashing an advertising ploy from back in the day. A lot of manufacturers would say they get a 9hp gain, but never said what hp they started with. An extra 9hp from 400 is a minor gain, while 9hp from a 175hp baseline is significant.
I worked in a shop that did dyno tuning and customers made these statements a whole lot of the time. Lol
Then again, back then, the manufacturers of the parts would list power gains at the crank and we had one of the few wheel dynos, so the disparity was that much larger. It was comical, to a point.
But Rich, the BEST WAY to add 200Hp to a Ford 5.0, is to bolt a breathed-on 408 - 427cu" B & S'd Ford 351 under it!
not intake related exactly, but I've been seeing a lot of posts lately on the SBF page on FB of people asking about using speedmaster. i know you did a video for them a while back that i believe i saw on their channel, but didn't see anything on yours.. i would love to see a Big Bang video of an all SpeedMaster parts SBF (preferably since that's where I'm seeing it posted). i know they make a 4 bolt main block, rods, pistons, heads, intake, etc.. use as many parts as possible that they make and do a detailed video on what was well made, what to look out for, if its worth the money, etc.. and most importantly.. how much power can it make.
the big bang is stock junkyard stuff-not after market parts
@@richardholdener1727 awwwww.. so does that mean this is something you wouldn't consider dong a video on then i guess.. not "big bang" titled i guess.. i want someone reputable to actually test these parts how because all i can seem to find is back and forth on forums. its outside of my budget to risk the gamble on them. thanks for the response though.
Edelbrock truck upper. They market it, is it worth the torque? Pretty long runners
That im still clueless about the efi truck intake compared to the others
How does the explorer computer compare to the A9L computer? I’m kinda thinking about building an explorer engine for my 72 Ranger XLT and swapping to fuel injection… Also what manual transmission would you recommend for that swap? I had a borg Warner T5 in my old 89 coupe Mustang and then swapped to the world class T5 and it was so much better… I’m a new subscriber and I love your channel btw…👍🏼✌🏼
not sure on difference between ECUs
Have you ever done a stage cam shoot out like the trick flow cams to see how much a cam shaft makes a difference ?
How to blow up a junk 302.add performance parts
Just have to be honest with yourself when it comes to weather you want a motor for the street, or track.
And, whether you will be driving in inclement weather or not...
I'd like to see this vs the tall 89 truck intake
89 truck intakes are shit lol only the newer explorer intakes are worth a sshit
Running the same cam with TF 190cc heads. My intake is a explorer intake. With 3.73 gears. Guess its time to get a different intake
I would like to see the Systemax intake on the more or less stock engine to see what it was really worth.
An intake isn't gonna do a whole lot on a stock engine as the heads and cam hold it back. You can't just do heads or intake or cam either one separate from the others and expect big gains. The gains are in matching the combo correctly. That is how he picked up 90 hp going to the rpm 2 that car already has nice heads nice cam and other supporting mods and was being majorly restricted by the stock intake. That is how the manufacturers got their advertisement slogans back in the day like "add up to 90 whp with this intake upgrade!!" LOL. Only way it's gaining 90 is in an extreme situation. Like this where everything else but the intake is optimized thus uncorked the problem stock intake with a better one results in big power. Systemax isn't gonna do much on a stock engine. The heads and cam will be holding it back. This is common knowledge known forever. However you stick one on a car with optimized heads and cam itll pick up big power like this rpm 2 did
@@midnight347 I totally get that, and engine is a parametric box. But the intake by itself will show you the actual difference in power between a stock manifold and an aftermarket. Problem is when you only keep the short block and change literally everything else you see the gain caused by the combination of all three partd, you never see what each component is actually worth. Of course factory heads only flow so much, but not everyone has a couple grand for their top end. So someone on a budget could really benefit from seeing a good intake swap to get more power, or a a good cam swap on a stock block, that kind of thing. Yes you'll always gain the most by putting on big flowing heads, and intake with a free flowing exhaust, but some of us are working with what we have and what we can afford. I love watching Richard because he shows you the progression, but he doesn't spend enough time on the stock components before making a jump to a complete top end. Ask guys who were around building cars 40 years ago a cam swap, a nice aluminum intake, headers, and a good carb will do a lot for a motor, but we rarely see this, the videos go from stock to a Summit Racing commercial too quickly.
@@aprules2 I get what you're saying but that is a flawed way if thinking. Testing them on a stock engine gives advantage to the stock intake because it was designed to work with those parts. The holley is gonna be majorly handicapped by being ran on a stock engine and won't be able to show what it's capable of. On a stock engine it would prob gain 20 whp if I were guessing but that's not to say it's only 20 horse better. A test like this actually really shows the difference between them because everything is optimized where both intakes can make the max power they're capable of making so you get to see the true difference which is alot. Doing it on stock engine heavily favors the stock intake resulting in not that much difference when there is really a huge difference. Make sense?
Wow well then I need to change my set up then ,just a set a good heads they say , I have a Bcam ,306ci,24lb injector with the same rpm2 but heads lower and upper intake are ported
Richard, I’m an LS guy. I’ve got a 1990 e250 4x4 with a 302 in it. It runs perfect and does surprisingly well. SHE NEEDS MORE. The frustrating part is EVERYTHING. The shittiest part is tuning it. For the cost of heads, cam, tune, I could damn near Ls swap it. I’d be fine with another 100hp. Got any cheap “secrets” to milk more outta the lil 5.0?
Sounds like you need a 351 in there,
It's hard to make a 3" stroke engine move big metal like one wants it to
351W, gt-40 heads and cam will help
Horsepower is very expensive,usually when you listen to young kids that are getting into hot rodding cars you hear things like this "yeah i heard if you put a chip in your car you will get 100 horsepower" or "i hear if you put pulleys you'll get 60 horsepower" alas if would be nice if it was that easy, when you put some really nice free flowing heads in your car that just cost 1200 dollars and thats not even installed yet you might get 50 horses,like i said, its expensive, a combination of many things will get you there, a nice intake might be good for 10/15 horses and thats pushing it.
This is all old school stuff and nothing to do with new 'miracle horsepower" like with new cars being built today where they get 500 horsepower out of a Toyota Camry,lol,thats another story for another day.
So..........how much is the EXTRUDHONE PROCESS & which is better EDELBROCK-TRICK FLOW-HOLLY or COBRA ?
Hey Richard instead of a throttle body can you add a 90 degree elbow to the intake and add a carburetor..or is it to much work to get a square 90 degree elbow for the carburetor and intake to bolt on...or try a side draft carb
This is a great video you're going to do apples and oranges but if you do it Apples to Apples this is not a good video because you're mixing things up go stock and then do changes on the intake
why would you add an intake to a stock motor and think that is the best test?
Richard, those numbers are at the crank right? Wonder what they would be at the rear wheel with manual trans.
Steve at powertrain dynamics said I would get 40 if not 50 from my combination since I have a ported cobra manifold and now I cam see why. I have 331strocker strocker with AFR heads and x303 cam. I'm for sure going to put a rpm 2 on it
You may want to upgrade that camshaft too. The alphabet cams are horrible in comparison to modern camshaft designs. Richard did a test back in the day and the B can only picked up 7 horsepower over the stock cam😱 something like an XE274 would make more power everywhere and would probably improve driveability over the x cam
a B cam should be worth a lot more than 7 hp over stock
@@evancole3620 I have 1.7 rockers so it not bad and actually it very drivable since I have a tko and 373
@@richardholdener1727 what cam would you recommend to use with the cran 1.7 rockers? I would value and appreciate your in put or is the x303 good
@@evancole3620 I don't know where you got your information, I run a b-cam with 1.7 rr and it makes a hell of lot more than 7 hp! Smfh..
What about on a turbo stock-ish 5.0? Do you have data showing how much each modification changes the output for on like an 8 or 10 psi boost setting? That'd be interesting to me. I usually err on the side of just letting boost do all the work until the block lets go but i've always wondered how much a cam or an intake or a throttle body or whatever would help. I imagine heads make the biggest difference.
I have a TFS Track Heat EFi on my forged internals 331, stock block AFR 185 head small block ford running 9.0 compression. Does the TFS intake hold its own compared to Edelbrock? The other question regards boost: can this combination get to 600 HP with pump gas (66-72 mm turbo for quick spool intercooled), or will high octane be a must? Love the videos. I learn something from each one! Thanks!
it will be hard on pump gas-don't worry about the intake change
@@richardholdener1727 So toss the 8.2 and go 408. Make 500 hp on motor, then add 10 lbs of boost. If it did not live in a factory 5 "roadster" it would probably be an LS by now. Thanks for the reply!
Ok what’s your opinion. Stock 89 5.0 HO running long tube headers with 2.5 “ exhaust and yes running 2.5” cats as well and also running timing gears instead of timing chain. Looking to upgrade my intake to compliment the exhaust. What’s your opinion on what I should be looking at. I’ve been eye balling the Holley setup but afraid it’s too much intake
stock cam and heads?
Yup
Always wondered how all the aftermarket manifolds performed. Have a ported cobra. How about doing a max carb legal motor? That's what I was trying to do with my 347/s/trim.
technically the 347 isn't legal
It would be cool to get your hands on a set of SVE 170cc aluminum heads that are no longer available from LMR
They are junk! That's why th we y do sell them anymore...
@@johndoe-zb8bm I got a set cheap and brand new cleaned up the ports a lot . I know they flow a bunch better than anything stock just been looking for anyone that has run them on a dyno . There's a channel that had a set on a fox body and was happy with the gains . The castings look pretty good . Anyways I'm sure they are junk...so what's your personal experience with a set ?
@@macenbarmore1900 The heads themselves are okay,I had problems with the hardware. I sent them back. But I seen a guy have good luck with them on CZcams! I might have gotten a bad pair..
@@johndoe-zb8bm thanks for the reply I cleaned them up a bunch and lapped the valves everything looked good ! Thanks
@@macenbarmore1900 are you guys talking about the typhoon upper and lower intakes ?
Ford stuff aside, how's the Nova comin' along?
Ford intentionally neutered those 5.0s. They started to get it right with the 93 Cobra 5.0.
what pistons are being used? will those reliefs work with a 2.02 valve?
AMAZING!
Hi Richard, have you ever taken any interest int the toyota 2zzge engines or toyota 2grfe engines ? (2zzge are lotus elise-exige 4cyl) and 2grfe is lotus evora v6 but are both available in basic toyotas in scrap yards.
I have nevcer run those
Richard uncle tony is calling out your 318 skills
that's not me-that is the Engine Masters Guys!
@@richardholdener1727 any chance you would be interested in putting the reversed piston debate to bed?
Seems like you are a disinterested party and, of course, highly respected. Tony says he will send you a motor!
1989 mercury grand marquis 302 what? can i do to gain some power in stock form?
tune, headers, cam and springs
Have you ever tested the Holley fabricated sbf 4 bbl intake?
do not use that
Richard, What was the external combustion system used years ago in California? I remember there was a news report where the police were trying to warn the public about how dangerous they were to use . It was bolted to the front of the engine it looked like an extra cylinder and piston .
not familiar
A bong.
what about the victor 5.0? That's the one i've been running for a decade or so
high rpm intake
Curious about this too - I have it on my 347 and people tell me it's killing HP but have no suggestion for another option! lol
@@richardholdener1727 what valve spring kit upgrade kit you run on e7te with xe274
1990’s that was vector power
Wouldn't you see the choke out with just a vacuum gauge? When it started pulling vacuum at high rpm. Was it bad enough to detect?
94/95 roush stage 3 intake
Hey have you tested the older eldebrock intakes where you could remove the back plate on the upper intake and mess with the port work there I know they don’t make the longer runner style of that intake anymore professional products makes that style now and edlebrock only makes the shorter runner style been seriously thinking about messing with my long runner style to shorten a bit but not go completely short like the short style possibly be a interesting video?
you can shorten them-it just shifts the power curve
Lol, that edelbrock intake adding 90 hp...... I remember 1988 too....
The Edelbrock rpm 2 wasnt around for many years after 1988.hell be lucky if the dart heads were even out at that time
@@ryangulley2051 I was mostly being a smart ass about that intake adding 90hp. Most of the good bolt-ons didn’t happen until 89 when they got rid of speed density and went to mass air. Junkyard explorer intakes, heads and 3.73’s were the ticket for us poor folk back in the day.
I've had 5.0s in Crown Vics and trucks that weren't the HO version. I wished they had more power, but didn't want to go deep into the motor because they were my daily drivers. What would this intake, with no other changes, do on a stock LO (Low Output! 🤣) 5.0?
much less
Sort of a clickbait title. He didn't just change the intake to get the extra 90.
did you watch?
@@richardholdener1727 Yes, I did watch. You said it yourself, you tested 3 different combinations of things. Starting at 10:35 you summarize. Your title makes it sound like intake change alone may yield 90hp, then you sneakily show that if you take a stock engine and change a bunch of stuff out and THEN also change the intake you'll get upwards of +90. That's a deceiving and unscientific test method if you're going to lead with that title. You really didn't get +90 from the intake, you simply got back some of what you failed to get with your other upgrades because you didn't upgrade everything together in logical fashion. You're not the first to do such a thing. Almost every motor show on cable tv these days pulls a similar stunt..."Look at us, we got +50 hp with new exhaust and air filter" (but they also changed the heads, ignition, intake, etc)
Start buy selling that 5 liter and get a 5.8 liter!! Mae those upgrades to a 5.8! Been there, done that ! The 5.8 will make the same thing at 6000 that the 5.o at 7000! Been there, done that! Its much easier to just start out with a 5.8, 351w! You get half sn on more stroke, nearly an inch longer rods! Do you actually understand the math? It bolts in with the same mounts, has a much stronger block, better rod stroke ratio, and be stroked to 7 literes! We've raced both of these motors! A 357w will make the same hp at 600o that a high strung 5 liter at 6000 rpm! We rsn a premium cast piston Windsor for 3 years on 150 shot for 3 years! Used solid lifter cam! Had $500 in the short block! Ran fully ported 289 heads, then upgreated to victor jr hesds! Less that 2 thenths! Ran 6:50s with the professional ported heads, in thev1/8 mile! With junk!! Ran 6:38 with victor jr! Afrer weeks of tuming, ran 6.29, for $1200 dollars? Dollar for Dallar, is it worth it?
you missed the point of this video-the math is strong in this one
Is a tune required for adding an intake manifold.
yes-although MAF ECUs do well without
Hi Richard and followers what would be the best manifold and injectors to convert to a single turbo build? Manual currently a carby motor but doing homework on next upgrade path.
injectors need to be sized for power level-80 pounders work well, the RPM II intake works well on an EFI combo-Holley too
@@richardholdener1727 thankyou brother I really appreciate your time I've watched he'd most of your videos but they are so full of information it's hard to retain everything. Cheers again.
Can you do a 6.2l ford motor
would that 274 work with stock pistons?
I wish these tests would have been done years ago…..did a lot of trial and error
Would like to see stuff for the 6.2 L87. I know it’s new but man I’m impatient 🤪
Do you have s link to the video of the dyno of the extrude honed stock HO manifold??
no sir-that was all before you tube
@@richardholdener1727 Maybe in the future we will get another one. Super interested in the extrude honed products. Want to keep my engine looking stock to anybody that looks at it. Planning on big dog port to stock heads intake. They said they shorten the runners. Extrude honed sounds like it would work best because of the process it they could port the entire length of the runners. So many choices....
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the response though. Greatly appreciated
The article was in one of his books that I have.
On a STOCK 302, extrude hone added power everywhere. But mostly in the 4-5K range--
it added 11 HP.
At 5300 RPM the manifold fell off a cliff because of the runner length.
Should get his E-books, they are on Google Play.
@@S.Matt240 shortening the runners on a 302-308 results in significant loos of power in the mid range. We've done it and if I could I'd post the dyno and track data.
Richard, what's the best overall intake for these 302s?
No universal answer. You optimize inlets for different engine speeds. If you go something in the middle then you give away other top end or low end. Its a compromise game ( unless you made your own infinitely variable set up)
no such thing as best
@@richardholdener1727
✋😁 raising my hand to ask a question.
My '88 GT is 100% still stock (amazingly).
What is my biggest choker on the high end?
Is it:
Ignition?
Ecu?
Heads/intake?
Fuel?
Cam?
I know it's all designed to work together. I'm just wondering what's the biggest *single* thing keeping me down on the high end.
Thanks!
@@xmo552 cylinder heads for sure💪
@@joebroart
Thanks
Would the results, hp and tq curves, be the same with larger displacement? Say 331 or 347??
the starting power and ending power would both be increased with displacement
What if you add 125shot of nitrous?
I know the stock 302 iron blocks can handle up to 450-550 before splitting down the valley. Also, maybe you could address the main block girdle. And if that works to help keep the block together with that much power. Thanks
Richard has shown they will hold more power than that.
I have heard it's actually the 5.0 becoming a stressed member in foxbodies that haven't had their chassis stiffened, also harder/solid motor mounts are a bad idea. The flex in the chassis on a hard launch rips the block down the valley.
@@Silverfang15
Ok. I didnt know that 👍
yes you can add nitrous
I know 2 people who went over 700whp with those blocks.
@@Silverfang15
Twisting "frames" is what splits blocks? 1st time i hear this. How far would you push an '88 roller block? What about an older Mex block for example?
More not gm 👍