HOW MUCH POWER IS A 5.0L CAM SWAP WORTH? WHAT IS THE BEST CAM FOR MY 5.0L 302? 5.0L FORD EFI VS CARB
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- CAN I REALLY ADD 30 HP, 40 HP OR 50 HP FROM A CAM SWAP ON MY 5.0L FORD? HOW WELL DOES A CAM SWAP WORK ON STOCK 5.0L HEADS? DOES A CAM UPGRADE WORK BETTER WITH ALUMINUM HEADS? WHAT INTAKE SHOULD I USE WITH MY CAM UPGRADE? HOW MUCH IS A CAM SWAP WORTH ON A MILD 302? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM SWAP WORTH ON A WILD 302? CAN I USE THE SAME CAM ON A CARBURETED AND FUEL INJECTED 5.0L? WILL I LOSE LOW SPEED TORQUE WITH A CAM UPGRADE? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED THE STOCK 5.0L H.O. CAM TO THE COMP XE274HR CAM ON TWO DIFFERENT 302 COMBINATIONS (MILDER & WILDER, EFI CAN CARB).
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
As always Mr Holdener, your contributions to furthering our knowledge and understanding in the automotive world is greatly appreciated sir. 👍
More sbf stuff. Thanks alot for content
I have more or less this exact setup same heads and cam, slightly higher compression, but smaller header primaries, good to have a rough idea of what kind of power I'm making, thanks as always RH!
I was out of the car world for the last 30 years.I was into semi truck Diesel engines.These videos are getting me up to speed on the LS motors.I can still set dual point systems with the best of them🤣
Love how R.H. always maintains his excitement and professionalism in answering questions such as these. And this has its roots in what’s absolutely one of the top 5 rookie mistakes, just trowing some big cam in an engine.
Good stuff. Interesting point: if you look at it as the percent gained, the difference is barely over 1%, and that is likely because the 190cc 2.02/1.60 AL heads and better intake went from a horribly matched cam to a better matched cam while the iron head went from a well matched cam to one that the heads/intake couldn't take complete advantage of the improved lift/dur.
Thank you for the SBF content Mr. Holdener!!!!!!
Golden ranges of power increase Mr Holdener...Thanks
Good work Richard, been waiting for this
When I looked for upgrades to do and see the number they say they add to a stock engine, I have had people say "Yeah, but you can't just add them all up and expect to get that". I have always said "You're right, you get more if they compliment each other".
Cam alone worth 33hp. Heads and intake worth 89hp. Just adding it up, you get an extra 122. Because they compliment each other, you actually got 149.
Another awesome video from Richard. Thank you.
Good promotion for the factory roller 5.0 H.O. cam from the looks of things. Possibly pretty good duration numbers with a relatively wide LSA to keep the idle quality.
I ran stock HO cam in my f150 for 250 K. It was a nice upgrade over stock flat tappet, right at 200 rwhp. The 94 cobra motor with the truck intake is much better, I estimate 275 at the wheels, with about 1mpg increase...
Excellent video Richard. Fuel motor was the same example I always use. Build a 3000hp motor and then stick a stock cam in it and there’s 2500hp drop. When you put the right cam back in, the cam swap was worth 2500hp😂😂😂
I built a dss racing engine with that 274 cam back in high school. It had afr 185s and a ported cobra intake with 24 lb injectors. I was trying to copy a motor you dyno tested in the book 5.0 dyno secrets!
GOOD STUFF
I've been wondering how well the Blueprint Engines heads performed. Looks like they do just fine!
I may have missed it?, how about testing some of these combo's with Fseries/Bronco intakes, they must out number Mustangs about 100:1?
I'd rather have a stock cam with good heads than a good cam with stock heads.
that's exactly what i am going to do
@@roythomasjohnson2341 you can get 400 hp with just a head swap.
Plus good gas mileage and a mild idle.
Who could ask for more.
you can't get 400 hp with a head swap
@@richardholdener1727 no, but you'll have better potential with better heads
@@richardholdener1727 370is good for me with a t5
It's really cool all the work you put in. I can remember 20+ years ago arguing with my Dad why I'm staying 302 with him just shacking his head saying there's zero point just run a 351. It's Sunday morning I might be a little late to this video but I'm sitting here with my cup of coffee thank you very much.
351 is way ea way better.302 are 500 hp timebombs
@@ryangulley1082 Lol who told you that 😂😂
@@isaiah9313 I know I've cracked in half.u nust not have been around long.everyone knows that except you.
@@ryangulley1082 Ok boomer I’ve seen plenty of people with boosted stock blocks. Engine block splits based on a different variables. What was the engine build?
@@isaiah9313 I've been racing cars for 34 years.ive seen at least 10 crack in half in the valley with 500 to 600.max.its a known fact
I would love to see how the Comps XE266hr on stockish motor then XE270hr on mild holt on motor
I keep trying to explain this to a friend who just don't get it. He put in a better cam and keeps asking how much more power he's got. He thinks it's worth 100 hp and I say no more like 30 to 40 because he's got 317 heads on a 6.0. I said if you change your heads maybe 80 hp. He said why can't I get 80 hp from the heads I have. I keep telling him yes they flow well but drops compression ratio. Better heads with more compression will raise the gains from the cam.
Great job thanks
Great job on the video as always, but lately I have been wondering what combination of head cam and intake would provide the widest possible powerband. Not looking for the highest peak power at any given rpm. But building an engine with the specific purpose of having biggest useable powerband. I think that would be an interesting test.
There isnt really such thing as a powerband, any engine will continue to make power up until a certain rpm range. So to answer your question, to be able to rev high rpms and make power in those high rpms, you simply need an engine setup that has valvetrain and intake setup to do that
Can you do a crane 444211 or xe258-14 to compare how those cams low end TQ would be different than stock/xe274? A lot of f150/bronco guys with 5.0s
The additional 14 degrees of intake duration INCREASED low end torque by 15 lb/ft. I guess the tighter lsa helped this?
I had a 1985 Mustang GT that I had installed the E303 cam with Edelbrock RPM heads and Intake with the Demon 625 carb on a stock bottom end. Just wondering if you had tested what the hp was between the original stock '85 GT engine to having installed similar upgrades to it. I swear that the '85 was just a bit faster than my '05 GT that was bone stock when I had both at the same time. And yes, I am still kicking myself for letting the '85 go...
i am doing the top end on a 1986 efi 5.0 in a mercury 3800 lb 2 door marquis. my goal: optimize the effeciency. increase mpg for all around driving, and knock the socks of the nay sayers . this is not my first build. but it is my first sbf build and my first efi build. goal, no less than 300 hp, preferably around 400 hp, max torque of course. at another time, I expect to Dr up the rings, etc to go turbo, etc, but not for now. likewise, what i put into this should be compatible for turbo/nitros upgrade, if and when i decide to get into the bottom end.
( Might save the turbo for 5.7 vortec build or my BBF 429 build.. but definitely for my VW cabrio build.)
my build style is: stop light to stop light horse'n around, freeway driving, around town driving, doubtfully will ever see a track) just a good ol grin'n, shit'n n get'n restore mod on survivors. ( moderate budget for us half broke potliqours)
Thinking AFR 185 heads. your test show them impressive at all RPM ranges.
Cam, i don't know. I was planning on the edelbrock top end kit, but seeing that is not going to give my my 2000 rpm efficiency, the rpms cars are driving the most (on average). Edelbrock recommends i talk to the head supplier, the head suppliers suggest I talk to the cam supplier, etc. (we need more collaboration in the industry like you and west tech, etc provide for us!!)
intake, I am struggling. seems edelbrock has available inventory issues, and having a hard time finding numbers to verify the words i am finding.
I can't find numbers or top portion for speed masters. efficiency
( moderate budget for us half broke potliqours)
I do hope to keep this simple and straight forward, not just for me and my young (learning) helpers but for future owners too.
70mm throttle body?
24psi injectors? or should i up that? not sure which injectors would equal a 600 or 650 cfm carb. having a hard time with data on that also.
Assuming fuel pump has to match the injectors.
Exhuast, figuring on ceramic headers, probably long tube, but struggling to find a company that admits their ceramic headers will slip into a 86 marquis. and I see no useful benefit to shorties. (please correct me if i'm wrong) Wanting a soft rumble. thinking flow master has a set of 50's that won't piss off the neighbors, yet allows flow equal to most 40's. knowing there are better numbers on other brands, but unpublished, and few published tests suitable to small block in this hp range.
fluid filled harmonic balancer
HEI ignition, 45,000 volt (or more) coil
LTD interceptor front shocks?
Gabriel Rear air shocks
front bushings?
rear disk brake kit? (thinking the hollander book for a late 80's early 90's Ford oem or?
I am confident that i am not the only one happy you are doing so many 5.0 sbf tests. there seems a shortage of those, yet a huge number of us doing 5.0/302 builds.
What recommendations would you give for this build?
Heads?
Intake?
Cam?
HEI?
Headers?
injectors?
comments?
much appreciated, you and yer fellas at westech, frieberger, and ya'll are beyond awesome there's a rare few others in ya'll's class, but before ya'll, it was hit n miss.
Here for the sbf content
Where do the Explorer heads land compared to these two? I'm sure those aluminum head are fantastic, but I bet you could buy a couple complete junkyard LS engines for the cost of just those heads...
How about stock vrs off the shelf vrs custom ground camshaft? How much is a supposedly optimized camshaft worth over all others?
Perfect timing! Im just starting to tinker with my 94 mustang 5.0… you proved to me that the numbers my dad said were right with the combination it has right now (give or take)… supposedly it has an E303 cam in it but everything im seeing is its still in stock format… i think it just might have a better tune… she already feels pretty quick, i cant wait to throw a set of heads on her even if she might have a stock cam, but if it does have the e303 cam that will just make her quicker! Should make for good content later!
You would know the difference between stock and e303 because of the sound and yes it feels a little more happy. I did that swap 6 or 7 years ago and finally I'm doing gt40p heads and intake and better headers should wake it up more. Hope this helps😉
AFR renegade 165s would be a perfect fit for your car.
@@I_like_turtles_67 thats what im aiming for is a good set of 160’s
E cam will lope pretty hard. I got a 94, take the computer and toss it in the ocean.
@@joenobody2580 i dont have an ocean but i do got the gulf of mexico lol
Right on
Hi Richard, just wondering if you could suggest a part number for valve springs that you like to use with the xe274hr if possible. Thanks!! As usual, great video!!
I don't have a spring package unfortunately
Could always have highlighted that camshaft modifications provide a percentage change. 250BHP+10% is 25BHP increase but 400BHP+10% is 40BHP increase.
Thermal efficiency of modifications is a whole new arena of understanding and that would explain why the percentage change isn't exactly the same.
you can apply the math as you wish-the reasoning behind the gains is because the rest of the components now allow it to succeed.
Good job
I’m curious as to how those numbers would translate to power at the wheels.
My guess would be for the 417 hp combination in a fox body with a manual would be 355 HP at the tires.
I spit ball the crank HP multiplied by .8 for an unlocked auto rwhp. ×.85 for a T5, T56.
I would say you are in the ballpark
Interesting that one got 12% and the other 13% gain. Not too far off if you look at it like that.
Stock HO roller 91 5.0....Weiand dual plane, stock cam, stepped headers, 1.7;1 roller rockers, AFR 165's no change to the short block at all...407hp (STOCK CAM) Oh, a 670 Demon carb too
wasnt that in car craft like 15 years ago?
@@powerviking yes! exactly great article just shows how the over sq engines with proper heads cab make great power. It showed me the added power of stepped headers and that even a cam with .470" (after the 6% gain from the 1.7 vs 1.6 :1 rockers) could make great power.
@@Selkirk69 it was the inspiration for me to do my own HCI swap on my 5.0 back in the day
@@powerviking I liked the build because it showed just how good the AFR heads were, they always outflow heads of equal intake cc . Yeah, I remember that article well, even the red color of the block and the fact that they used a stock cam! w/ just an upgrade to the 1.7 ration rocker ( so .444 + 6% ....027"...) + .471" not bad at all and duration was like 260 gross ( 210 @ .050) which is so mild!. Just think, a .500", 224dg cam would have been completely street friendly and added 20-25hp more! ahhh, memories!..cheers
Why not start the pull lower in rpm band
Olds power videos please
Will the 274 cam still have clearance with stock pistons or would they need to be checked? I'm currently running a F cam with SVE heads Gt 40 intake pushing around 10lbs with a novi 2000.I just bought a Holley SysteMAX like to upgrade the cam to the 274 if there's clearance thanks for all the great videos
should fit
Hi Richard, love your videos. Been watching a ton of them. I've got a 95 Mustang GT. If I put a stock bottom end with aftermarket heads, GT40 intake, and an uggraded cam, will the stock ECM drive it properly? Or will I need a "tune"? Or something else? I'm looking for kind of a "drop in" solution that does not necessitate replacing a bunch of other stuff but still gives me a bit more power over stock.
if it is speed density-it will likely not, if MAF, it will work okay
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks, I believe the 1995 Mustang GT uses MAF.
With the superflow 902,what revs per sec do you use,i got a motor built for a 4wd,late 5,0 block,out 20,with 3.4 stoke crank =346 it has 9.7 comp,165 AFR heads Comp HR 280 cam and weiand stealth manifold and a holley 750 hp carby,and it dynoed 399 hp@ 6000,my engine builder was blowern away with that HP as he is mainly street/strip and full race builder,He says his dyno equites to moroso calulater hp,he says a 400 hp engine from his dyno,with 3500 lb car is a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile car
the acceleration rate of a dyno can be changed-we normally run 300 rpm/sec
How about e303?
Richard, how much compression is the E7 headed engine at in this video?
stock
Dearest sir , I am looking to build a 5.0 with gt:40p with low toque for pulling trailers,. What recipe would you suggest. I’m in the mind of a 331 striker kit. It’s going in a ranger
mild cam and long runner intake and log tube headers
Any chance Richard can settle the sniper efi on a dual plane vs single plane debate ? 😂
I want to know this also... compare carb, vs sniper, vs. Terminator X.
🔔😎Comparing at 5252 rpm where the curves cross, each engine gained about ? similar hp/ lb-ft.
Just something that I have always done. 😎
why does the gain at 5252 matter more than elsewhere?
Only because the clock time spent at 6,000 rpm is less than 1%.
Usually people shift at 5 or below, except when racing.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks Richard 👍😎
When changing a factory camshaft to a bigger aftermarket camshaft, in an engine that has non adjustable valvetrain, can the appropriate length pushrods be used instead of machining the heads to accept adjustable studs etc? On low rpm (5500ish) deals aren't press fit rocker studs sufficient as long as the pushrods are the correct length? Are the screw in studs only necessary when the valve spring rates and rpm start getting significantly higher than factory?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 thank you.
More 351w
My takeaway is that the factory ho cam is not that bad.
Probably just as good as the Comp Cam if you just changed rockers to 1.7
Not that good!
You would be surprised what the grinders told you back in 1950,1960,1970.
Someone look back in your old car books and let us know.
312hp in a fox or sn95 would be a respectable really fun street car and fairly decent in the 1/4 mile for such a mild combo. Seems there still fun and fairly quick even in 100% stock form no not "fast" but fun they accelerate good and will still roast the tires. People hear 215hp and laugh but I explain yes the HP is pretty weak sauce but it still has V8 TQ which feels decent off the line seems TQ gets you moving. Where the low HP seems un inspiring is top end pull. Unfortunately even tho they seem quick you can easily get gapped by a late model not performance car even some modern 4wd trucks and that is embarrassing... That's enough motivation to try n add some more TQ ant at least 100 more HP then you won't be gapped by modern sedans and trucks just don't test a coyote....
my truck makes 195 with the 5.0 lol at the crank
@@sillyspoon2250 oh my 95 GT was rated at 215 new it has 150k so that ship sailed not to mention it still is original it has the OEM ford sparkplug wires and I think the plugs are original lol, I bought plugs and when I see how bad pass side accessibility was I didn't bother plus after having a plug snap off in the head of my 2010 grand caravan I'm not nervous about removing plugs even tho I've changed hundreds In my life and those were originals at 190k! It was running terrible plugs fixed it, they had a huge gap I'm surprised it ran as good as it did
This would be more helpful if the baseline was a completely stock 5.0 which makes around 200hp rather than starting with something making 279hp and having it bored with long tube headers etc....
a stock 5.0l doesn't make 200 hp on the engine dyno
What would happen if I use the 274 cam with a stock torque converter ?
might be soft down low-also depends on intake choice
Soooo idk if ur gonna answer this but best cam shaft to run for the exact same engine jus efi an completely stick but wanting to do a stage 2 rebuild kit when I do the stage 2 rebuild kit I’m not putting nothing else into it jus putting the engine back in the truck so with the stage 2 rebuild kit what do u think best cam would be ?
what engine and what power level and what application?
My question is if you run the GT40 intake manifold why not go up on the fuel injectors tow like a 26 PSI or a 30 PSI fuel injector and put the 1-3/4"long tube headers!! Would that give you almost the same equivalents as a carburetor like a 650 or a 750 carb!! You have me scratching my head on while I go to a carbureted intake and manifold when you could possibly get the same amount of horsepower out of a fuel injection intake manifold with just an upgrade of fuel injectors⁉️🤔💡🙄😒🤯
the injectors don't hold back the power of the EFI intake-it's the design of the intake
@@richardholdener1727 what about a port and polish for EFI manifold and the exhaust on the gt40p heads and put higher compression valve springs in with a good cam and
1 3/4"long tube headers would that help any because I really wouldn't want to go with a carbureted intake manifold or spend more money than it's worth on the whole project of a budget build!! Thanks for getting back to me though on the thought anyways is there any way you could possibly change out the power steering pump and put an a EPS steering system in the car to help add more horsepower and do a little bit of pulley changes just thought!! If it is possible!? I really do like your videos... 😍
I've got a 306 gt40p heads the machine shop done what they call a street port exhaust and intake runners been gasket matched and cleaned up under the valves been cleaned up stock valves had a 3 angle valve job valve springs upgraded for the b303 cam , 1.7 roller rockers, eldebrock performer rpm intake, 650 double pumper holley speed pro flattop pistons 1 5/8 long tube headers, b 303 cam msd distributor 9mm plug wires not really looking for a certain amount of horsepower and tourqe just wondering if this combo will work good together and the horsepower and tourqe it might make any suggestions greatly appreciated thanks
it will work-should be near 340 hp
Thanks I appreciate it
I have a 351w roller bored.30 ..sr heads 202 valves with Pac 1918 springs. And stock dish pistons. . Will this cam work good. ? Will springs be ok. Not to much pressure? 140lb and 450lb open .. will it clear pistons at total lift ? Heads say 240 duration should clear ..
P-V NEEDS TO BE CHECKED
More ford stuff! I feel spoiled!
So this is my first foxbody build what I have in mind is cobra intake AFR 165 heads ford b303 cam and bbk shorty headers with a stock bottom end is that worth the build ? Would I be close to 400 hp ? And still safely drive on the street everyday
it will be shy of 400 flywheel hp
Thank you
Hey does anybody know if Richard does a 390 build on his channel?
NO FE YET
Do you have any videos where everything being the same, the cubic inches are increased?
watch the 4.8l vs 5.3l vs 6.0l video
So I’m buying a 1990 f150 with a 302 in it thinking of swapping to a 351 but if I stick with a 302 and a budget of around 5 thousand what could I do to make it fun on the street what combination would you go with?
boost
we’ll boost has been in my mind but don’t wanna take the chance with the block or anything along the lines of that so ig I should also give more details on what I want this is a truck not foxbody they break loose stock so I’m looking to make more torgue then horsepower but keep the horsepower respectable aswell something I can pull with but I also want to burn the tires off it with a 6 inch lift and 35s so mainly looking to be able to pull and smoke the tires at the same time with a pretty good chop added to it to
so with a stock block, Stock Heads, Stock Cam, and an explorer intake with a 70mm Accufab TB, 75mm Pro-Mass Air meter, 19 Pound Stock injectors, 5-speed Z-Spec T5, and 4.10 Gears, what would you recommend A Vortech V3 Blower ???
you need bigger injectors
@@richardholdener1727 24-pound injectors? the V3 Vortech gives how much horsepower per pound to the wheels ?
Top 10-
Where are you located and do you do cam swaps at your location. Interested in the EX274HR cam you just previewed.
I don't have a shop
@@richardholdener1727 Do you do it on the side? your videos are so on point and would pay you to help me change the cam, Lifters.
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 600 cfm carb 302 aluminum heads and intake intake.
4.8 ls vs 5.0 ?
The issue has not been making power. You can build a sbf and make crazy power. What about fuel efficiency?
If you want fuel efficiency get a Corolla.
@@falcon6995 what makes you click on someone else comment and reply with zero knowledge.
@@theshark2804 Knowledge of what? Who the hell builds their hot rod with gas mileage in mind? Anybody with common sense knows that if you want fuel mileage you don't get a gas chugging V8. Oh and I chime in on comments because I can.
What size chambers were the aluminium heads on the 306 ?
60
💪👍
So the 274 did better than the Summit E cam.
YES
I get how ford (& any OEM) had limitations back in the day like 90s like cam profiles compression ect because of cafe and emissions but with there vast knowledge and development budgets they produce a mehh designs like the HO engine, yeah it makes impressive TQ for a little engine but performance was bit underwhelming but making a good head and a good intake design cost the exact same amount of money to manufacturer.... Is anyone trying to convince me the E7te or even the GT40 was as good as ford could do in the 90s? Could of hired DV to scratch out a design on a napkin and done better. Also I'm skeptical of the 94/95 version going down to 215 from 225 in the fox, I think they knew the new turd of a mod motor only had 215 so they lowered the 5.0s rating so folks didn't say this new fancy pants ohc engine has less HP!!!Wtf?? As far as I know the only difference other than pulley location change is the intake elbow but they also used the bigger cobra maf meter so you would think that may fix any loss the elbow may have caused if any...?
To suggest that the Ford engineers didn't know how to make better heads is silly. They made the motor to produce the desired combination of power, mileage, emissions and cost for the time. Back in 1987, the 225-hp Mustang was a series player on the street.
Think the piston says 040 on it lol
Nothing is absolute. Yeah... you can add a cold air intake, add long tube headers, add a larger throttle body... yadda yadda yadda. You're not going to get exactly the 50 hp gain mentioned in the "up to 50 hp gain" advertisement. Especially if #6 plug wire is fried cuz you didn't keep it away from the primary header tube. Just sayin'.
Ported lower for the GT40 would've been nice. The as cast lower pretty much sucks and it would be really nice if you had mentioned that or even showed the difference in those ports.
The GT40 is capable of way more than what was displayed here unfortunately. Let's not make the GT40 style manifolds (tubular, Cobra and Explorer) look like junk compared to the carbureted Performer RPM.
How about sending the lower GT40 to a good porter (TMoss is popular or even my boy Lloyd Elliott) and let them do what they do and then let's do this test again because the GT40 will not nose over nearly that early after porting!
The effective rpm does not change with porting, the runner length is still the same
My phone disliked. Sorry. I liked. Corrected. Please ignore dislike.
I bought a factory fresh sn95 w/ 5.0 Cost more to maintain than my past 3 Mercedes. Rather have root canal than buy a POS ford
You must of got a beat up 5.0 because they’re really reliable
@@alltorque415 Whole car was an extreme lemon. The factory wouldn't back up the dealer either.
@@imo8249 that sucks
Who cares.
@@philsocks3386 You do, a lot, proven by your reply a year later. Buy some Bud Lite for your ford
Personally I blame squirrels