HOW MUCH POWER ARE AFR HEADS WORTH ON A SBF? ARE THEY WORTH 20 HP OR 100 HP? THE ANSWER IS YES!
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- WHAT ARE THE BEST SMALL BLOCK FORD HEADS? HOW MUCH POWER ARE AFR 165 HEADS WORTH ON A 5.0L FORD? HOW MUCH POWER ARE AFR 185 HEADS WORTH ON A 331 FORD? CAN I GAIN 100 HP WITH A CYLINDER HEAD UPGRADE? WHY DID MY HEAD UPGRADE ONLY ADD 15-20 HP? HOW GOOD ARE AFR FORD HEADS? WHEN I ADD CYLINDER HEADS, DO I ALSO NEED A CAM AND INTAKE? WHAT INTAKE SHOULD I RUN WITH PORTED FORD HEADS? WHAT IS THE BEST 5.0L CAM? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I RAN TWO HEAD TESTS ON SBF MOTORS. TEST NUMBER 1 WAS THE ADDITION OF AFR 165 HEADS ON A STOCK 5.0L MOTOR, TEST NUMBER 2 WAS THE ADDITIONAL OF AFR 185 HEADS ON A MODIFIED 331 STROKER. THE GAINS WERE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT AND HERE IS WHY!
Thank you for the SBF content!!! 🇺🇸💪🏼
I only watch Ford stuff now..I clicked on the wrong BBC video once, never again..😂😂😂
@@thetruthspeaker1978 😂😂😂
@@thetruthspeaker1978😅
Aftermarket heads are the best thing that ever happened to a SBF
AFR is the head I go to every time. They never disappoint, they are always quality, and I get the best overall street/strip performance with my builds with them. Hard to beat a known good component.
I want to expound just a bit on another great video from our host. I was reading on the forums in the early O0s. A person from AFR was explaining airflow and used a term everyone knows "Area under the curve". And what he meant was low lift numbers. That is what you want, not just a peak number at really high lift.
the AFR heads flow better at every lift value
In a world that doesn't exist, I would love to pick up a 95 Cobra R and put these heads on that engine. Or a 392 version of it.
Love the sbf tests! I would like to see someone do a test on the brodix st 5.0 heads. Seems they are not a big thing in the ford world but they look like they would do well!
My engine guy likes TFS Twisted Wedge 205s for the sbf but I had already purchased AFR 195s. I had him flowbench them and he was pleasantly surprised. I also had him flow a cnc'd LS 243 head and the AFR was superior!
I needed no convincing. My first 302 was an E7 roller, with an Edelbrock performer, and 600 Holley, fun and torquey, but then i went with a Comp 280 Magnum roller and TFS twisted wedge heads, and I lost some fun grunt down low, but from 5500, to 6800, it picked up about 90 HP over stock and surprised a lot of people.
Good info. Love the SBF content!
Adding the heads to the stock motor gave small gains, but in a car the reduced weight will help acceleration and handling.
What I always thought was the coolest thing about 5 liter Ford factory it's kinda a slouch but considering how low the hp rating is it always had enough tourge to get the wheels spinning on just about anything
back in the 90' and 2000's trickflow twisted wedge was king
Impressive gains. Thanks for posting!
It looks like he started with a late 80’s early 90’s Ford 302. Wonder the difference would be compared with early 1970’s heads (heavily restricted)?
Great explanation of power generation.
Also combustion chamber volume. If you have stock heads and stock pistons and you put a cam and small chamber heads with an intake you’re going to make a lot of power.
@@BuzzLOLOL Another exception. I used a set of D0OE 302 heads (70 year only) with a little port work and they out performed a set of GT40's with like bowl work.
Would have liked to see an intake/TB upgrade on the 302 with the stock cam and AFR 165s. My brain says the intake and TB were a bigger restriction than the stock H.O. camshaft. But, I could be wrong...
I was thinking the same thing, but with a decent camshaft.
You are right. I did this on my 92 aod mustang years ago. All stock it made 184rwhp.
Changed to afr 165's, explorer intake, 65mm tb, and cobra roller rockers with stock cam.
Power went up to 262rwhp.
@@3foxstangs Nice gains!
@@3foxstangs- I bet with a good cam your combo would have made 325-350WHP.
a good intake helps-but a 5.0L needs all three
Any aftermarket almost is worth a lot. Especially for the overcammed on a small block Ford. With some good moves like something from TFS. 302 is doing 350 s*it
I'm a 4.6L 2v guy but i always tell ppl that Ford's lil engines make huge power for the size they are.. Especially if low compression..
My opinion is that if I was doing a mild rebuild on a Ford Windsor series I like the elderbrok top end kit with matching heads, cam and intake. And pair it with a 750 holley. For old school small block Chevy and even new ls Chevy I like the twisted series of trick Flo,with a btr cam and elderbrok rpm air gap. These I think will make real strong, powerful engine's that can go for a long time. It's by no means maximum horsepower but still very respectable and probably twice what a stock engine would have or close to it. Now stroker motors are very much a different animal. I don't care about Ford, Chevy, or dodge. If you want to get the most out of a stroker go with afr heads and talk to a cam expert that can help you pick the proper cam for your engine displacement and your intended vehicle and rpm range. Me being me. I'd recommend topping it with a tunnel ram set up for efi and and use the holley stealth efi. It looks like carbs but easy to tune. Dual quads are hard to tune without a dyno and they still wouldn't be perfect, but efi that's doable for a shade tree mechanic with a laptop. Just my opinion. Love your videos always fun to see thank you for your time and effort. You are appreciated by the masses.
I would run the Trick Flow top end kit over Edelbrok, outperforms Edelbrok in every test I’ve seen for comparable money
@msk3905 I don't have enough information or have seen enough tests of the trick flo for Ford. What I have seen is that the elderbrok seems to have a small performance edge by 10 to 20 hp and torque. That's not much but when you compare trick flo to the elderbrok set up they cost about the same. Now for whatever reason the trick flo does better on Chevy engines and it's reverse of the Ford. Trick flo tends to make 10 to 20 hp and torque over the elderbrok. But I think it really comes to personal choice really. They are both really good and better than stock and they both cost almost the same money. Honestly I wouldn't fuss about having either setup on a Ford or Chevy
@@dannytravis7118 just look there are countless tests out there comparing these heads and Edelbrok always comes out below Trick Flow and AFR
Right on
In my limited experience with building & playing with SBF engines I’ve come to believe that the heads and intakes are biggest restrictions. They can make decent power but going from E7 to aluminum head is always worth gains, then add a better intake more gains, upgrade cam more gains, open exhaust even more. There are people out thee who spend countless hours and money making E7s perform better but I just don’t see it when aluminum can make or outperform these worked over E7s and you have more room to go where you are maxed out on the E7s. Saw it first hand when I changed just my ported E7s with 1.94x1.6 vlv’d head to TW 170s and saw gains in HP & TQ from 2800 (where dyno graph started reading) on.
I would really enjoyed seeing more LT1 stuff😂
Hey Richard when you went full throttle sounded like it had a slight mis around 5600 lol… afr heads worked great when I had them on my 331
Good call-not many can hear that precisely
“It depends” should be a t-shirt
Thanks, Richard! Was thinking about doing just this on my 302 f150 and didn't know how much it would be worth. The other difference would be the truck intake. I think it makes a little more power than the mustang one.
stock e7te heads will make over 300 hp on a 302 with a cam and dual-plane intake, and even more on a 331 (350 hp) or 392 (386 hp) as shown in other vids, but the SBF really needs all three things to make good power
All ways great to see them sbf videos.I was wondering if you had done some on just different cams to see the power gains and where at? I currently building a little forged 306 and gona hit it with 15lbs i have 2 different cams a F303 and a XE274 with would be better. Also running a Holley SysteMAX with a set of TF 206r heads
274
@@richardholdener1727 tks
@@blownfox did you ever finish your build? How did it work out?
@@Cowboy.underwater worked out great it didn't make as much boost as I wanted just a little over 13lbs or so.The most ive seen is 13.6 that's good enough for a street car
@@Cowboy.underwater I also didn't go with the TFS 206r head I didn't realize how tall they was so I found a deal on a set of TFS 205 C&C.
Always wondered how well the H.O. cam would do in a 351W roller.
A lot of us are running explorer top ends with the rypical bolt ons and a e/b cam. Wondering what some good heads would do with this combo ? Worth is with the explorer intake ?
Richard did you ever run the newer renegade heads on 347 with rpm air gap and 274 cam and compare it to victor jr and what about that 302 400 hp with the stock cam and afr heads you gonna test that
A factory ford 302 made 500 horse with kasse p38 heads and his cam choice and an intake
doubtful with stock p-v
@@richardholdener1727 look back to muscle mustangs and fast fords stories. I thought you were a member of the the blu blocker 100.......Canfield heads? There was a supercharger that I forgot....was it paxton?
Hi Richard. Im lookin to build my 71/72 olds 350, block 395558, into a 374 stroker and put it in a 83 hurst olds. Could you please do an Olds 350 build in the 400 to 500 hp range for us Olds runners. No one ever does this. There are more Olds lovers out here than it seems. The Olds 350 takes the 455 heads well so that would be a good way to cut some parts costs too. Dyno runs/ results we gotta see too. Weve seen way too many 455 builds on youtube, we need ya to do just some kind of 350 build. Help us out please. I might also decide to put mine in a 71 Cutlass Supreme S too. The video would get a lot of views, i know it would. Thanks, sir!
It dependejo, always !
Wow test was very interesting until the test motor that needed only better heads wasnt a 302ci but a 331ci stroker, not much of comparison if aside from adding cylinder head but was 30ci bigger,would've been more equal if disp remained same amongst the combo comparison, but once engine size is also different than there's more to the reasons as to why a motor with better cam and intake makes more power from head upgrade= taxes more from the better flowing head due to bore/stroke increases the air ingesting abilities from cyl size and stroke
go back and rewatch-you will get more from the results the 2nd time around
How about the XE274HR cam and AFR165’s on a dual plane/carbed 306” @10:1 compression? By using HP/cu in from 333” it should be around 415 HP, but 333” has 185 heads, but smaller cubes and 165’s should make up with velocity? What’s your thoughts Rich?
no idea what you mean by thoughts?
@@richardholdener1727 would the XE274HR and AFR165’s be good for 400 HP on a 306”?
Ok, now do a 4.6L 2v vs 5.4L 2v plz..lol
It'll split the block at 500! They always split the block at 500hp!
Big question: Would a throttle body fuel injection make as much power as the carb. on a combination like this? What is the highest flowing most powerful F.I. setup for this engine?
if you used the same intake
@@richardholdener1727 I will try this on my 90 GT. See the long runner manifolds only make in the 360 hp. range but want to keep the FI.
We need larger gains for those costs
That is the way it has always been with Ford, you have to spend alot more money to make the same horse power as a GM, with less money
@@patricktisdale9603 I know sir. That’s why I have been having trouble paying near a thousand dollars for the trickflow box intake, most cams are more expensive, and the need for aftermarket aluminum heads as opposed to the basic junkyard 5.3s. I don’t have the disposable income as most of the people in the turbo sbf game and I wish I made changes years ago instead of doing nothing.
Turbo is the way to go nowadays. I'm still on the fence but probably going to keep the 302 in my car because it weighs considerably less than a 351w. A set of GT40 heads, aluminum dual plane, holley efi, and a cheap-ish turbo should be a smooth 400-450hp for like $4000.
Inflation
If $ really matter, stay stock.
Blame Biden I paid 650 less for my 220's when Trump was in office
Does anybody know how much hp aluminium heads will bring with the following setup : Ford 289, Holly 650cfm, Dual plane Edelbrock performer, mild cam (don`t know exactly which one) and Hedman longtube headers. Cheers, Peter
watch the big head test video-but good alum heads can add 50+ hp on a combo with a decent cam
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks Richard.
Sorry, MT.
AFR #1450 is a 205 head NOT a 185 head like you stated...
Is there any kind of calculation that can be run to determine the maximum power a set of heads can support? I would assume one could determine a maximum air flow rate which should correlate to maximum power (all other conditions maximized)
Intake flow at your valve lift x 2
300cfm head will support 600hp
Hey Richard how’s this relate to the 351w non roller? I hear the heads are so restricted that’s it’s a really big hp gain? I want about 350hp any suggestions? Thanks for ur time. Engine is 83-84 351 out of bronco
same heads as roller motors
I'm stuck on the 4.6 2v
In my Town Car.
Gotta love these tiny v8s..lol
@@hotrodray6802 Check out my TFS 38cc top end build on my P71.. Just got done..
Hey Richard, have you ever tested/compared sbc cams that used the ls firing order?
firing order doesn't change power
@@richardholdener1727 Dang marketing disinformation. Thanks!
What would you suggest for rebuilding a 302 to hit 350 HP on 87 octane gas, utilizing the stock computer and staying EFI? Is this even possible?
LOW COMPRESSION 347 STROKER
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks! I've seen some videos on this conversion.
Looking for power? On a small block ford.....or a big block ford? Go with heads from Jon Kasse. You will beat everyone else in ford heads
I tested Kaase heads in the big head test-they did not make the most hp
Dude, if you would have changed the cam and intake on that or any 302 instead of throwing a stroker motor into the mix to avoid a cam and intake swap this video would have been one of your best. It would have answered the big question for so many people that have done or are going to do an HCI upgrade on their OEM 302 bottom end. Now we have a video that does not really answer any question. Most already know the oem cam and intake will limit gains on any head upgrade including stock heads. It didn't even really show that because you compared 2 different size engines. Sorry to criticize, I normally love your videos and come away learning something I was wanting to know. Not this time.
plenty of cam and head test vids on 302 up
Yea, but I prefer your videos Richard.
ALL of em ! lol
We need the rave music!!
agreed
FIRST
I’m thinking hard about comp274hr cam.. I have a b cam now stock crank 306 gt40 heads 70mmtb and 76mm MAF. 4.11’s out back it’s got great low end range a best of 13.27@104. Now my question is if I put 165afr heads on would I still be in the stock gains. 15-20? I’m just trying to figure out if I need to change the cam to have more power/topend power. After5600 it falls on its face. Ideally I’d like to pull power to at least 6200rpm
what intake?
@@richardholdener1727 lightly polished explorer intake (gt40)
Just think if you started with a 351w! I like your vidios, but the only reason to run an 8.2 deck instead of a 9.5 is the 9.5 won't fit!! 😂😂
It's like a certain part of a man's anatomy, you would get the biggest one if ud had the choice!!
Weight
@@josephtravers777 I've done both, trust me, you gotta spin the hell outta that thing to make the same power, and they don't hold up unless buy an aftermarket block! I'm 63, I was blowing the little bastards up when you were riding tricycles! At the formula of weight to horsepower it only has to make 10 more horsepower to make up the difference! You can put a crank web in, but it will show you its guts sooner or later! There's a name for 347's, hand granades!
@@markmccarty9793 I highly doubt that. We are the same age. Cut my teeth on 289s in the '70s. If you missed something, watch Richard's video on 347 vs. 351W. Same power, 347 up higher in rpm range.
@@markmccarty9793 Road racing
Stroking it spoilt as direct comparison, pity.
That baseline stock motor ain't that "stock" pushing over 260 hp
you are confusing the rated vs tested power, we run the motor with headers (no cats), no accessories, open throttle body (no air intake) and optimized tune, but all stock from the throttle body to the headers
@@richardholdener1727 I see, thanks.
Only head better than AFR 220's are the CHI heads for $5k a piece...lol