Alternate vs Economy Picking: Which is Better?
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2024
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This week, ALL my Patreon supporters get TABS for this lesson PLUS practice tracks to help you get it up to MAXIMUM SPEED AND a Guitar Pro file AAAAAND a very special Patreon exclusive video showing you how I choose whether to alternate or economy pick hot licks! Lets go!
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Alternate versus Economy Picking: Which is more better?! This is the ultimate guide!
The right hand shred camps are hotly divided between your hardcore alternate pickers (Paul Gilbert, Al Di Meola, John Petrucci) and your economy picking pros (Frank Gambale, Eric Johnson, Tosin Abasi, Yngwie Malmsteen). But which technique is better for YOU!? This lick will help you decide!
Your good buddy Uncle Ben Eller here has devised this lick as a way to practice both picking styles and find which one is best for your mitts. I'll show you the lick, both picking styles, then we will go over the pros and cons of both!
Gear:
Jackson SL3 Soloist
Synergy Steve Vai module
UA OX - Hudba
Ben Eller,
Thanks for this lesson.
I choose Economy Picking.
I had a teacher who refused to teach me because he demanded everyone use alternate picking.
A hybrid of both is likely the best option. Sometimes Alt is choice, while other times Eco wins the day.
and yes, you can do both.
I really find this one hypnotic I cant stop playing it. Only in alternate picking though economy is a bit over my head at the moment.
I turned into a habitual economy picker. Sometimes it is frustrating. At first i couldn't do it without being heavy on the downstroke so I practiced and practiced until i could smoothly economy pick. Suddenly, it's like i forgot how to pick any other way😢
Same, and I don’t have to memorize up or down strokes. I just pick in the direction I am going. I do, however, find I have to work to emphasize on upstrokes sometimes and getting a pinch harmonic on an upstroke is HARD (at least for me so far).
I think both techniques should be regularly practiced. The same arpeggio will have a totally different feel between alternate and economy
Unrelated, but every time I see your videos I find it striking how much you look like one of the Beast In Black guitarists
You can't really have a conversation about economy picking without bringing up pick slanting. And being able to switch between downward and upward pick slanting seems to be key to being able to do economy picking in both directions (i.e. higher note to lower note vs lower note to higher note). Of course, changing pick slanting direction also makes the alternative picking approach much easier. You hint at this with the "launcher" pick stoke idea, but to me it's all good old "cracking the code" pick slanting. And to me, the real benefit comes from not just knowing "what comes natural to you" but how and when to control so you can do both as needed.
I tend to switch between strict alternate and economy as needed and generally without really realizing it. They're both extremely useful for different licks.
Amusingly, as I've gotten older I've been incorporating a lot more legato into my shredding. Not really sure why but it sounds cool so I'm sticking with it.
I’ve always been more of an economy picker by instinct, since I can use less tension when playing, but practicing my cross picking is getting my right hand used to alternate.
Hey Ben, I just stumbled on one of your videos from a year ago, on how to hold your guitar pick. I’ve been playing for 30+years and never thought I would watch a video on how to hold my pick, but I figured what the hell! This shit actually worked!
Less than an hour of practicing with the metronome, and I didn’t even seem to need to hold the 2nd pick anymore. Just wanted to say thanks!
🤘😎🤘
LOLOLO, 13:48 had me crying. Great stuff as always Unkle Ben, i was an economy picker for a couple of yrs and went back to alternate, now i can do both.
That's awesome that you are on the 🚢 and u have the identical studio setup at 🏠!
Sonically, it seems alternate picking has a more predictable, sharper attack and economy is slightly softer on the notes when transitioning to a new string. And depending on what sound you're going for one style vs the other can be more appropriate.
I prefer The Yng-way
Beautiful lesson! A lot of knowledge straight to the point.
I was just wondering, using economy picking, what do I do if I went down from a string and had to jump next to the one above it, and then you talked about it!
You're an awesome teacher. Thank you.
Well, that’s just a limitation of the style! Some players would just do a hammer on or pull off instead of picking the last note on the string.
That is the eternal question of choice or instinct ...I realize I use the combination of both technics, and more than that, using legato too, which is "super hyper economy picking" ! 😊
Because I am an old school guy, big fan of EVH, Blackmore ...
I say do it both ways economy sounds smoother and alternate more aggressive play it once or twice economy and then drive it home with alternate picking could work great in a solo context and get more better milage out of the same lick ! That’s what is so great about the guitar the dynamics you can achieve with just your picking hand
I've been waiting for a video on this. Thanks Ben!
I gotta stick with Alternate right now. I mean progressively playing I pretty much down picked everything and inadvertently threw in economy. So I am following your lessons on alternate 3nps...4chromatic alternate string skip from hell....six sixes...ect. Can't do em all, but I have gained on your advice (stop clickin and start pickin). That's #1! 🤘
When I started playing guitar, John Petrucci was my idol and I thought that alternate picking was the key to everything. Over the years I began to incorporate economy picking without even realizing. I don't have set rules when to use economy picking, just going with what feels better. Maybe it's time to get back into "learning mode" which I dislike so much for whatever reason, and to really think about what I'm actually doing. By the way, Ben, your guitar collection is sweet as fhugg! I've sanded all of my necks because of you :D
Very meticulous and useful information. Timely as I'm re visiting Yngwie atm. Thank you Uncle Ben. On a different note I think I will do a swirly paint job on my RG550 that is sat in the corner... lonely..
I am definitely firmly in the economy picking camp. I HATE going around a string to pick it from the other side, much to the ire of my guitar teacher.
He, however, uses the term economy picking to describe cheating legato in a (usually) three note set.
So like pick, pick, pull off for 8,7,5 on the high E . Then pick 8 on B pick 5 on E then pick, pick pull off on 8,6, 5 on the B. (Crap, can’t believe I am trying to tab this out in a comment while thumb typing on my phone).
Anyway - he is firmly in alternate picking camp and we just kind of agree to disagree on that front.
Getting “phantasm/ Iron Maiden” vibes off this lick, awesome vid 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I generally use economy whenever possible. I started doing it years ago, but I have real problems playing in time. I can start on one beat and end on another, but everything in between is just kinda shoved in there. It's like when you describe George Lynch's rhythms when he's playing fast stuff. It works for me but I can hear pulses in weird places when I do it. I started alternate picking a year or so ago but it's hard to retrain myself. I noticed that I tend to downward pick slant on the heavier strings, but upward pick slant on the lighter strings. At the same time, my hands naturally seem to adjust the slant when I change direction with sweeps or economy picking.
I think we should know both of them. But I prefer alternate picking. Thanks uncle Ben 👍
Hey Ben love that track u are playing on the intro .. u pretty much cover the main details about picking solutions,. But one u might not be aware of is when having those small strokes alternate picking the smaller they get for me I end up swiping going to the next string , it’s basically a rest stroke.. Thats taking me a lot of practice to fix .
I'm sorry, I had to start over the video when you said Young Shredi Knights because of laughter
I practiced both, and ended up in the weird situation where I have noticed myself doing pure alternate for ascending runs, then economy picking on the descent
Same here! Didn't realize I was doing it until a friend recorded me with her phone and played the video for me.
I economy pick on the way up and alternate on the way down. You complete me
great video Ben! The Jackson looks GREAT! hey, one thing that's many times a challenge for me is: How to figure out how to pick a certain solo, where to choose alternate, where to choose economy, what to do downpicking, what to do uppicking etc... Can you maybe do a video on How to figure out what the best way is? So for example: if you see some long lick, or some solo and you try it for first time: how do you approach it from the picking standpoint?
Watch the Patreon video, it’s got a lot of that info in it!
@@BenEllerThanks for letting me know Ben !!
I do alternate on slower stuff but I switch to economy on fast stuff. I don't know why it just happens
Great discussion bro
Sounds a bit like a Savatage riff. 🤘😂🤘
Thanks uncle Ben.
I've always just played alternating picking except for the string crossings, I just have no regaurd for if the first note is an up or a down stroke, you can get the rythems the same if you can play triplets starting with an up stroke
I much prefer how alternate picking sounds. However economy is just that… economic motion.
My style? You can call it: "The art of picking, without picking..."
The art of picking without picking? Show me some of it.
I’d love to get faster but my pinky is suffering from joint issues so I’m a three-finger player.
Great video! In my opinion beeing clean with your alternate picking is one of the most difficult things you can imagine doing with your guitar. People talk sweep picking is hard, and dont get me wrong, it is! BUT they dont realise that dont spend nearly enough time doing sweeep picking as they do for alternate.
And about economy picking, I think its harder at the begining, and easier when the harder stuff comes by, for alternate is the other way around.
You should use both.
Again, great video
As a self-taught player who always wondered about the intricacies of alternate picking, I found myself developing a 'push' technique of economy picking. I find it hobbles me for certain runs, depending on how they are started. It's definitely harder to get your timing correct and land on notes when your fingers are doing what they want. Maybe left and right are in sync, but you need that sync to be on the 'down' many, many times. It;'s a thing I'm trying to overcome.
I told my mom that you sucked because this lesson was so hard. She smacked me across the mouth and said to never say that about 'My dear Ben' and then she said she's booking me extra lessons if I can't keep up. She got a funny smile on her face after that. Dad's been gone for milk for a while now and she says you might be my new Dad. That would be awesome! Free lessons!!!
i only use economy when it have dotted notes but still alternate picking for the accents
*Should not the choice matter depending upon what one is playing?*
Yngwie is the ultimate economy picker. Though most are fooled and claim he sweep picks.
Players who gravitate to economy picking do so for a belief in getting speedier.
What about pull-offs to give yourself time to reorient the pick in economy and directional picking? Yngwie does that all the time.
To the video title question: Yes. The answer is yes.
Trevor Belmont uses both to get it done.
Played guitar for 18 odd years, I just thought economy picking was me being lazy and not knowing how to alternate pick! Good to know I'm bad at both 😎
Am I the only one who just learns how to play something and then just lets my right hand decide how to pick it, with no thought whatsoever? I’ve found my right hand will find what works best for itself without input from me.
*UNCLE BEN!*
HI!
In ….out….in….out…. And moving it all about.
0:40 Hey what's that tune, full version of it up anywhere?
I was (or tried to be) a strict alternate picker for years, but more economy picking has been creeping into my playing over the last 5 years or so. Probably all the Eric Johnson and Gambale licks I've been trying to steal. I still sometimes rush phrases when I'm economy picking though, so I only use it when the alt. picking really isn't working for a given lick
E or D, which is better?
My mother says can you leave it in on alternate strokes? She’s not an eco friendly kinda gal.
My only rule in guitar playing is, don't limit your playing for the sake of technique.
After watching last week and this week, in my opinion, your picking looks more like your shredneck brother. #Skankbanger #YouBenPlayinMandolin ?
Glad you noticed it! Trying some new things out.
🔥🔥🔥
Economy is better
It’s worser than my cursor in your purser.
Hey Ben what do you think Matteo Mancuso’s technique? All fingers on the right hand?
Freakishly amazing!
Hey Uncle do you got the tabs on patreon to download where you put the 7 exercises into on pdf or....?
Yes, PDF and guitar pro files
Seems that each of them sounds different 🤷♂️
Nice addition of the laugh track....it really exemplifies my economy picking 😆
Having trouble joining patreon,..
Venmo, Apple,
Google, Visa,..
Can I pay you direct upfront full year?
I haven’t turned on access to yearly membership yet but I should consider it
Ill go out on a limb here: Economy picking sounds weak in country guitar soloing, because country guitar soloing descended from bluegrass soloing, which is exclusively alternate picking. I teach my students to alternate pick real well before I let them even think about economy picking. Discuss.
You aren’t wrong, it’s very rare to find country and bluegrass guys who economy pick
Nose picking.
Exactly, and everyone thinks they are using their teeth 👃
Kinda depends, some licks I find easier alternate picking properly that some find difficult and then other stuff that most would easily use alternate picking I find myself resorting to economy and if possible sweep picking.
But I wanted to take the time to say thank you Ben. I've been playing for 19 years, since I was 12 and my step dad got me a guitar (jk, they are divorced though).
Day before my 12th birthday I had my first lesson and on the day having confirmed to my dad that I wanted to do this we went to Tom Lee Music and walked out with an MIJ Ibanez RG and a Laney amp (Sabbath fan).
Despite from then on basically living for the guitar and becoming quite decent at improvised solo play (still aweful at rythm, working on that) I never really was avle to do the one thing I wanted. And that was shred. My teacher gigged with Paul Gilbert and was a big fan, me of Randy and Yngwie but somehow I never managed. I got to being able to play quick. Legato even at shreddy speeds. Enough to sound impressive to non guitarists. But every guitarist knew, ah he's just doing legato, look at his useless right hand!
Then I even gave up playing altogether. Now I'm back at it after a 6 year break and stumbled upon your lessons as well as Michael Angelo Batio masterclasses (always liked the guy, much more feel than people credit him for).
And you both had that fundamental philosophy that changed everything for me. You have to play fast to learn to play fast. I always prided myself in accuracy and precision. Never sloppy! Ah but that's the problem. I failed to realise that if I didn't push past my speed limit and became sloppy that I would never learn. Constantly trying to slowly speed up a lick played cleanly. What a waste of time. 3 months of playing fast and sloppy and voila, my hands just snyced up last week.
From one day to the other my speed (played cleanly) doubled. I couldn't believe it. I was picking all my legato licks and doing new ones. At real shred speed, I remembered the intro to Far Beyond the Sun, that I had failed to ever get to real good speed and I just played like it at Yngwie speed. Still slightly sloppy but not very much so. I couldn't believe it, I started recording myself just to listen back to it in the morning sober (don't judge) and I was blown away. Put a huge smile on my face.
I've since gone from metal to mostly blues. Got my Epiphone Korina V loaded with Alnico II Classics for the perfect Albert King "Lucy" sound and I've been pretending to be Bonamassa with a pendant for harmonic minor over the Major Fifth.
First time in years I've had fun playing. Now learning a song a week. Wasted Year by Maiden was first. Then Scuttle Buttin by Stevie. I gave Stevie another week to perfect it haha. But I can now almost do about 3 full 12 bar runs of it at Stevie speed before I trip up or my pick goes flying. Really struggling with the transitions of strumming chords to fast picking and back. I also cheated and turned the fill into two consecutive runs sweeping. He kinda does it live sometimes and I don't have a country picking background that the fill needs so I think it's fair enough. A slide to B sweeping downward open B and E and then upward sweep, as it's all legato back down the minor scale. I think he did it sometimes, hard to make out on footage.
Anyways lots of love and thank you Ben. Still have a long way to go but you sure put some speed in my coffee.
Neither , which ever tool is right for the job.
I started playing guitar in 1986. I think I first heard someone mention alternate picking in 87. I thought up until the last 10 years I alternate picked my fast runs. When someone mentioned economy picking, I noticed that only a few select runs was true alternate picking. Most everything else was alternate ascending and economy descending, which is 90% of how I adapted to my own style. We didn't have youtube in the 80's. Works for me and I do it very well. Lol
Cut my life into pieces..... oh... wait... 😅
Did your cruise ship hit a pier??????
Hahaha sure did
@BenEller I saw an article on Google. It said , I can't remember the name but some rocking cruise hit a pier and passengers were stuck on land or something. I remembered you saying something about being on one in this video. I thought damn , uncle Ben is on there lol. Glad everyone is ok
Everyone was great and Carnival handled it superbly. We made some memories and rocked the high seas!!!
I think of it this way: for a single-escape economy style, with a few sneaky tricks (legato and swiping) that most people won’t even notice, you can play a very good approximation of almost anything without having to be a prodigy. However, if you want to approximate economy lines that an Eric Johnson might use, you have to be an absolute god at alternate picking. Of course, you do have to learn the single escape system and learn to live with two pull offs out of 16 notes.
Boo
Tim Henson: Hybrid picking!
Matteo Mancuso: Fingerstyle!
Jason Becker: Sweep picking!
Yngwie Malmsteen: Fingering (your step mom)!
Alternate has its ups and downs,but economy is more economical, I've found.
Indeed Alternation vs economation between the 2 it's hard to .. Pick. Lol
don't worry? I know I'm the only one laughing lol.
Seriously though I really really like these licks, (so useable)
And as always your instruction is absolutely superb. Much appreciated
So thanks; Uncle Benny Bob..
And Wear your life jacket on that boat. Dude I Watched "The Titanic. Scary