You'd better check your polyurethane and tung oil...
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2024
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I clicked on you by mistake (not usually into woodworking) but stayed cuz who doesn't like exposing a scam, and then you mentioned your headphone sponsor for all of 3 seconds, and I've been looking for nice ones with cord like that for a while now. Damnit you just made a sale (and thanks for the discount code).
I like your comparison that "Finish" on a label is like "Food product" at the grocery store. A "cheese food product" isn't cheese. A "Tung oil finish" isn't Tung oil.
I wasn't aware until your video that the finishing industry has started using the food industry marketing, see also:
"Juice Drink"
"Avocado Dip"
Like the "Cheese Food Product" and the "Tung Oil Finish", those adjectives are a sure fire way to know that the product contains very little of the advertised ingredient. I never realized I had to apply my grocery store habits to shopping and Woodcraft too.
@@eloscuro704 my personal food favourite is buying premade stock at the supermarket. beef stock is sold as just that, but the chicken is "chicken style stock". um, what's in it if not chicken?
Great video! Love the information, I actually did think about this stuff, and did look at data sheets etc.
And this is the reason why Chris Schwartz is making his own finish - you only know what is in it when you make it yourself...
Yes. Once I saw "pure maple syrup" in a discount/reject shop, and checked the ingredients list on the back "5% pure maple syrup" and the rest was corn syrup.
At least "cheese food products" contain real cheese unlike these "finish" products which are "imitation cheese".
Fun fact, Danish oil is neither made of pastries nor Danes. I live in Denmark and have never seen Danish oil here.
We have it in Norway and we make it from danes.
@@stefflus08 Lots of new residents look to have a lot of it in their hair, so it gets squeezed out and bottled.
Disappointed to hear. Doesn’t Mr. Watco live there with his Deft craftsmen?
They just call it "oil" there. Like the French call their cleats.
I worry about the origins of baby oil.
A number of years ago, I worked for a coatings company. We made high end finishes for boats, planes, cars, furniture, and musical instruments. Our finishes were not cheap because they used real polyurethane resin. Some had UV inhibitors, some were made for outdoor uses. Quite often we would analyze other companies products because clients requested it. More times than not those products only contained 5% poly in them. Some had no poly resin at all yet they claimed to be a poly product. You have to read the MSDS sheet very carefully to be sure of what you are about to purchase.
I've done panel testing of varnishes for years. 1 part there was no comparison: Epifanes ruled. Thicker. More UV inhibitors. Blend of urethane and natural resins even some tung. But their phenolic one is essentially equal. Some people claim interlux is just as good. Rubbish, it is more thinner, takes more coats to achieve same film thickness.
I've been making my own finish(es) for a few years now. Once you start to understand all these points, it's so easy to make your own finish that's appropriate for the job you're working on. For a fine finished jewelry box or something, I love to make my first coat more thinned down to get a great penetration than work up layers with less thinner as you go. But for quick easy projects, use less thinner and 1-2 coats is just fine.
I save the marketing money for my own business needs 😉
The ready-made stuff is useful for someone who is doing a small project and doesn't want to have to store or dispose of extra materials.
Yeah, this exactly. There's no good reason for a pro or committed hobbyist to get any of this stuff. For a guy that just works on a few small projects a year though? That's just s different story.
Sure, if the price reflects the fact it's 75% cheap solvent.
@@paulmaxwell8851 It's still true even if it doesn't. Imagine a hypothetical situation here. You're a rando dude that isn't into woodworking at all. You're just wanting to refinish a small shelf for the wife for some occasion.
1 qt of watco wiping poly costs about 20 bucks. Done.
1qt of polyurethane + 1 gallon of mineral spirits costs about 16.50 + 8.50 = 25 bucks.
You effectively get more per dollar from mixing them yourself but if you don't need more, you're wasting 5 bucks.
You also have to factor in the fact that hypothetical rando dude probably doesn't have an empty 3rd container sitting around to store the mix so he's going to have to get an empty paint can and that's another few bucks.
Rando dude also doesn't have the experience and knowledge to be certain that the things he's mixing are definitely compatible so factor in the peace of mind that goes with getting something that's ready to go right from the can.
Again though, this only really applies to this particular situation. If you're a pro or a guy that does a lot of this stuff as a hobby, you definitely should save money by mixing up your own.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Sure and if you end up with 75% more than you'll ever be able to use are you saving money?
Do the math. Use a calculator if you need to.
Don't forget to add in the cost of the extra container(s) you'll need to mix and store the finished product in. You might already have this stuff but the target market for these ready-mixed products won't always have these on hand.
And what are you going to do with those excess solvents that you'll never be able to use? Are you going to store them away (waste of space) or dispose of them (bad for the environment)?
What about your time? Can you easily and quickly get all of your materials in one place?
Did you factor that into what price you're willing to pay?
And don't forget the context of the original comment. You might use gallons of oil finishes a year while others won't use a quart in their lifetime.
I resemble this remark. I'm a small hobbiest and don't have the space to store the large amounts and don't some go bad.
I totally agree. I've been using 100% pure tung oil diluted with a citrus solvent (50-50) as my go to food safe finish. The solvent helps it penetrate quickly and the tung oil polymerizes in the wood after about 30 days. It does take a while, but once it does, your home made kitchenware will last years. This is especially important to me because I give a lot of my projects as gifts and I don't want my family to perform a lot of maintenance.
What is a citrus solvent? Could you please share any product name that I can look up? Thanks in advance.
@@ashokmoghe8035 You're looking for D-Limonene. It smells like orange peel. I mix it 50/50 with pure tung oil and wipe it on. You need LOTS of coats. I put over ten coats on a bread board.
@@ashokmoghe8035 look up Citrus Terpene or d-Limonene
@@ashokmoghe8035 Citrus solvent is the "common name" for d-limonene. It's a solvent they extract out of orange and lemon peels, and is generally considered safe to eat. You can buy it in relatively large quantities online, or you might be able to find it at your local woodworking supplier. I bought some Bumbleechutes brand citrus solvent at my local Woodcraft store.
One thing to watch out for is products like Howard's brand "orange oil" - while it does contain d-limonene, it's blended with mineral oil, wax etc. It's a restoration polish, not a solvent, and isn't what you're looking for to mix with tung oil.
Hope this helps!
Nature's Orange. There's google for ya.@@ashokmoghe8035
I agree Jim, 'Its varnish but not as we know it'. Sorry I couldn't resist it. This is a bit removed from wood working, but I do a fair bit of gardening too and use a natural product to repel bugs from the vegetables called 'Neem Oil'. Its available in all sorts of formulas and spray bottles for premium prices. And just like rubbing finishes as liquid as you can get; almost thinner than water!
Neem oil is the consistency of contact adhesive and to mix it with water for spraying you drop the required amount into a hand spray bottle with hot water where it mixes up well. Off you go and spray your veg. Its very effective and harmless to humans too as Neem is actually a nut. A half pint bottle cost the equivalent of $15, I'll be using my bottle for years. So its not just the paint and finish guys having a dip in our pockets. Excellent video as usual.
Stumpy, you never fail to deliver. Thanks for this invaluable (without fillers) information.
100% Pure Stumpy Nubs
No added fillers or thinners
No VOCs, no harsh chemicals, no dangerous fumes
Get yours today!
An info video, not a video finish.
Now I'm suspicious if there's polyurethane in my Kraft singles, LOL.
No telling what Kraft puts in there! You might want to find a better quality cheese.
I anticipated, and loved the quip about Danish oil being "squeezed from danishes."
I do gun stock work and have been using boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits with a little raw umber oil paint to finish the stocks for about 30 years instead of name brand stuff and works better. Great video and thanks for the info
I did same about 54 years ago. Gunstock start with boiled linseed oil cut with solvent..I think 25 oil/75 solvent ratio. Each successive coat more oil & less solvent, I believe 75 oil/25 solvent. And lots of rubbing. The finish is amazing to this day..54 years later
You didn’t mention anything about driers that are commonly mixed into off the shelf varnishes. That’s a very important thing to consider when choosing whether or not to make your own varnish
Not just varnish, but most BLO, too. That home store BLO has heavy metal dryers in it. I buy linseed oil at the art supply store - costs more, dries more slowly, no heavy metal.
When I was a kid, I got a soccer ball that was made with “genuine synthetic leather” 🤔
Well, you want to make sure it's a real fake... those fake fakes are just garbage...
Many new cars have "Vegan Leather" interiors.
@@johnschiltz6440 that'll never be an issue for me... not only do I drive classics & will never own a new car, I'm also a leather worker & can reupholster seats with real leather...🖖🏿😎👍🏿
@@johnschiltz6440yep. An old guy I know ask how many vegans they had to skin to cover some luggage his son got. 😁
There was a TV commercial years ago making fun of something by saying the product was made of genuine imitation plastic.
Bob Flexnor's book on finishes was a great read. This is a good video
You said it at the 8:00 mark: "Convenience." Like so many things in this world, you pay dearly for convenience. Thanks Stumpy for this video. I've been using a super-secret "3:3 Finish" for years on a multitude of projects. It's 1 part paint thinner, 1 part polyurethane, and 1 part boiled linseed oil. I Love the stuff, though it takes weeks to fully cure. It can even turn MDF into something extremely water resistant and quite durable.
true, what i dont like is the lack of continence in having to look through MSDSs. no label no buy. i will buy a pre mix, just tell me how it is mixed. if not it is not convenient.
Wow , great explanation. You should make this type of video fo EVERYTHING ELSE out there.
Thanks for the refresher about finishes. I have mixed finishes for years (decades?) just to see how the differing ratios act on wood. I have an uncle who swears by Danish oil and Craftsman tools. They make him happy. God bless and Happy New Year.
Thank you for this! I'm down to my last can and a fraction of Formby's, and while I look forward to trying the formula out that you mentioned, I have to say that it worked very well for me over the years. It was easy to use and produced a high quality finish that I couldn't be happier with. I'm glad there is an affordable alternative, because there was no way I was going to pay collector's prices for another can. In fact, if people are really paying that much, perhaps I will let go of my last one.
After I try your formula 🙂
You know things are gonna get spicy when James dropkicks known brands in the teeth.
Go for it, mate.
One of your past videos taught me to buy regular oil poly and cut it myself. Thank you!
Thanks. I'll listen later
Your comment about how buying premixed finishes is more convenient hit the nail on the head. Any convenient product always costs more. Just as a cake from the bakery costs a lot more than the ingredients would cost separately, different blends of wood finishes cost a lot more than their pure counterparts. Because it's more convenient for me to buy a quart of something that has been made from a blend of different substances that will do what I want than it would be for me to buy the ingredients, mix them in various ratios, and test them out, trying to achieve a specific result of appearance and protective performance. I'm not a chemist, and my woodworking projects need to look right the first time, so I'll just buy what the chemical engineers suggest to meet the needs of my various projects.
Really appreciate the research that goes into your videos. Thanks so much.
Making your own finishes is surprisingly easy. For cutting boards and kitchen utensils, I make my own mineral oil and beeswax finish. I add a little pure lemon oil to it, just to make it smell nicer. Like you said, it's easy (and kind of interesting) to play around with the ratios to make the finish that you need. There are several recipes that people have posted online to get started with. I bought a second-hand slow cooker pot for $10 to heat up the mineral oil and beeswax to melt the wax and mix it with the oil. I'm going to buy some tung oil and citrus solvent and play around with that soon.
try tung on your boards, someone did a test in water and it washed off less then mineral oil. but your method is food safe and quick. thanks for the tip.
Much appreciated the easy to understand explanation and examples. Thanks!
Thanks for the info. I was looking for the right wood finish, and now you have answered that question for me.
I love that you leave open the alternate possibilities instead of jumping straight to raw castigation of those who might do things differently. In addition to the wealth of knowledge and experience you bring to your videos, this level-headed attitude is part of why I LOVE this channel. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks James, your videos continue to teach us and save us money. Your honest and informative videos are invaluable.
Excellent information as always. The details are always in the fine print.
For a few years I used a blend of poly, boiled linseed oil and solvent. equal amounts worked well.
That's called danish oil
Thank you James.
Dang James, you hit the nail on the head with this one. In aviation we advise to Read The Flipping Chart to get the approach right. As a woodworker, especially in these inflated times, READ THE CAN. I could not agree with you more Sir. Get what you pay for, know what you pay for and apply the finish you hope to get in the end!
Thanks for all the tips, James! 😊
Happy new year! And stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Great video as always James thanks for sharing such helpful information. Happy New Years to you and your family 🎊🎉🍾
Thanks for the video, I usually learn something and always enjoy watching!
Brilliant! I learn something every time I watch one of your videos.
Excellent video. I still remember decades ago ,learning to mix oil with varnish to create custom material, from George Frank's book.
Thanks for the video and how to save money on our finishes! I remember when anti-freeze manufacturers started offering one gallon jugs of 50-50 antifreeze. It was $1-$2 less per gallon, but you only got half the regular amount of pure antifreeze. What a ripoff!
A lot of users may not be using distilled or deionized water to dilute to the 50/50 concentration, possibly causing significant long-term problems. For those users, the pre-diluted may be the best choice. And it can save maybe 10 minutes, so it could actually save if time is valued. As for me, the 100% conc is for me.
I thoroughly appreciate the detail in which you delve into your topics in your videos; stripping away the uncertainly and double-speak and get to the basic meat of the matter at hand. Thank you.
Great content! I remember an article in probably 'Fine Woodworking' way back with suggested mix ratios for oil finishes from raw ingredients. That may have made it into one of their books on finishing. Same gist--you can make what you need.
It's like "100% juice" drinks. It says made with 100% juice to make people think it's better than soda, but in reality it's sugar water with a smidge of juice. The trick is that it says "made with". All they're actually telling you is that drop of juice they added is in fact juice.
Kind of like the whole wheat bread that is white bread with a tablespoon of whole wheat flour added.
Made with 100% real beef.
@@debluetailfly or just had some brown coloring added.
I'm and old-time hobby wood worker and had no idea of all that info. Thank you again for your wisdom.
Exactly what I’ve always wanted to know- thanks and happy new year
"Danish Oil" is as real as "Corinthian Leather".
Naugahyde.
I've hunted Naugas...they are HUGE and EXTREMEMLY fast. 😂
@@HeirloomGameCalls But not fast enough! They were brought to the edge of extinction by the hired market hunters of sofa manufacturers. I have formed a non-profit to help replenish the magnificent Naugahydes, and plan to reintroduce them into wild places. Please help by sending a sizeable donation to Save the Naugahydes!
I mean, corinthian leather is at least actual leather, not vinyl like people think it is.
@@HeirloomGameCallsAren't they related to banthas?
Once again, you’ve provided great information for us Shop Dwellers. Thanks @Stumpy Nubs
A friend was wanting to finish harwood floors with Danish oil several years ago. It was going to cost him a mint. I took him to Lowe's and an hour later we had enough to do the entire job for a traction of the cost he was going to pay.
HAPPY NEW YEAR, THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
I keep a can of Watco Danish Oil in Natural tone in my workshop for only one reason: It's great for the handles on the Chicago Cutlery knives. Whatever this stuff truly is, the knife handles like it and it makes the knives look great!
Also, I believe another reason why manufactures make a dedicated Wiping Poly product is to comply with the laws in states like California which govern (limit) the total amount of solvent that a finish can have. Wiping poly can have a greater solvent content (therefor, it does and you pay accordingly). I read this once, but can't remember where.
Yes. Those laws are also why cans of finish say "do not thin" on them. It won't hurt the finish, but the manufacturer is required to tell users not to. I worked for a retailer that sold finishes, and we were also required to tell customers not to thin the finishes.
Thank you for doing this. As a new woodworker I don't know anything about finishes. I've only used finish once so far and it was shellac.
I have been finishing some reclaimed ceiling boards with wiping poly. It works great, I don’t need a durable finish, and it is so easy to apply to the less than perfect reclaimed boards. For my last batch of boards, I think I’ll try to make my own.
Man I am really loving your channel. Whenever a video pops up in my feed, it’s an easy click.
Good video loaded with useful information. Cheers!
Thank you for your no-nonsense comparison of finishes. I've known about the Tung Oil Finish issue for years. And, I always did wonder where Danish Oil came from. My uncle always swore by Danish Oil as being the only "good" finish to use. I guess the marketing worked on him. Thank you again and happy new year!
My father was an early adopter of Danish Oil Finish (about 60 years ago). His take on it was that it was a penetrating resin that polymerized in the wood. He poured it on, let it set for 15 minutes, then wiped it down. I've found it works well as a first sealer this way, even though the product may have evolved over the years.
You can probably easily find out what is in the finishes by contacting the company and ask for the Material Safety Data Sheet for that product. By law they must inform you what is the make up of their product.
Back in the day, i attended a lecture by Formby in Hartford CT. And yes, a good part of the lecture was how to use his fabulous tung oil product!
I must say, another excellent presentation - very informative!
I started to do it today, but I think the next thing we can do is configure the off feed table!
Great video and explanation, well done. I do a lot of woodworking and trim carpentry and my cost structure is such that the money spent is not in the finishes, so I use what works for me and is quick and easy to use.
My finish Trifecta is blo, shellac and mineral spirits. They work fantastically for 90% of my projects
What a great video to start the year 👍👍👍 I was never the wood guy to use a lot of oils on my projects very little
I'm happy with shellac. Thanks to stumpy, I get a nice finish without the hassle.
Very good video. Especially since finishes have gone up in price significantly the last few years. I learned about most of your comments several years ago, but some I wasn't aware of until this video. Thanks. Oh yeah, if you could please tell the audience what is so expensive about Odie's Oil and the new-to-me N3 rub-on finishes I have heard about. I checked, and both are very expensive for a very small amount. Thanks again.
Great information, thanks. I use OB shine juice and mix it myself.
Love your so much knowledge and unique learning topics
You’re a great communicator!
I appreciate the bit towards the end, about what you would want to mix to get whatever outcome your trying to get. I was pretty excited 6+ months ago to buy tung oil. While when it comes to food, I'm aware of all the word games, with finishes? Never thought about it. I'll be using that can I bought for a while haha. But I'm glad to have this information to look into more for future projects.
Thank you for these in-depth and transparent reviews. I started using The Milk Paint Company tung oil.
I’ve been preaching the very same tune for many, many years. I make my own finishes and they work just fine. I’m blessed because my father worked his whole life for a finish manufacturer. We were making our own at home when I was growing up. And I’m 79. Great and informative video! Thanks.
Yup! Excellent PSA James! I have a great wood finishing book that breaks down exactly what you've said. I've been making my own wipe on poly (1:1:1 tung, quality spar varnish, mineral spirits) for years. If it was good enough for Sam Maloof, it's good enough for me.
Thank you so much. It is unreal of people rip you off without you ever knowing.
Wow, I learned a lot this video!
Well done, Mr. Stumpy!
🔥🔥🔥Excellent content! He is 100% correct...my go to for most clear coat finishes is a 1:1:1 lindseed oil, mineral oil, and poly mix, varied according to application and sometimes tinting with a stain.
I have been making my own for years after reading an article in a painters trade journal. One part linseed oil, one part poly or varnish or whatever you have laying around and one part paint thinner. takes one to two days to dry depending on temp and humidity. I always do the glass test when making a new batch and have yet to find a combination that hasn't dried hard on the glass. I used watco for years in my cabinet shop but now use this. Also works great on wood bowls.
Thanks for this video. I like to use shellac cut with alcohol or poly cut with mineral spirits; usually mix my own to get the consistency I want for a given application.
Thank You!
My dad used oil from oil changes to stain the fences and front gate. Looked great.
Very helpful as always!
Very informative video, much thanks
I mostly build instruments and do some furniture repair. My go-to finish for years has been shellac, and I always know pretty much what I've got since it starts as a bag of flakes. I used to use Danish oil on stuff, and I always assumed it was called that because it was the type of finish used on Danish furniture, sort of like French polish.
Great video. Contains much valuable information. I feel I have just had a chemistry lesson. Thank you for sharing. Happy New Year. I am wishing you and yours a great 2024.🙂🙂
Great video. Good to be aware of what we are actually being offered.
Good Vid, as usual. For added background, Sam Maloof was using this 1/1/1 mixture decades ago on his rocking chairs.
Thanks for this video. I make a finish from polyurethane, boiled linseed, and mineral spirits. I found it equivalent to Watco Danish oil. Ratio 3 parts thinner, 2 parts poly, 1 part linseed. Long drying time, but I like the results.
Good video. I've been using a home-brewed finish for 15 years. Started with equal amounts of spar varnish, BLO and mineral spirits. Looks great but not a lot of protection. A professional finisher recommended 3 parts spar varnish and one part each of BLO and mineral spirits. This mixture allows building up layers of varnish that provides more protection.
Thank you for dispelling the myths about finihes. I didn't know, and I bet most others didn't either. 😊😊😊❤❤❤
I love BLO (Dyed with Alkanet Root Powder for Walnut) then simple wipe on coats of varnish or poly.
A fantastic explanation for some finishes.
I’ve used polyurethane for a long time and didn’t know why. I just preferred it.
Now I know why my subconscious mind was helping me go in the right direction.
Very well said Mr Nubs! !! !!!
Good informative video. Wish more youtubers made them like this. Subscribed
Great advice Stumpy as usual. But in addition I'd add... Materials Safety data sheets. Make friends. Read them first. I like the products that say they are edible or pet and human safe right on the bottle. But I've learnt to always read the sheets, even if I had to look them up online. I discovered my favourite combo was orange oil and tung. I buy one that was basically just the two. But don't eat it. Even if it does smells delicious. There's food grade linseed oil for that - often marketed as flaxseed oil. 😁 I do like using wax from a beehive too, depending on the job. Carnauba added too. Occasional poly-poora thane if I inherited it from somewhere or someone but never new. I just don't buy it. With paste wax, pure warmed linseed and gum turpentine, or shellac, or orange tung, I can't say I've needed anything else. And last time I relied on outdoor poly I wasn't rewarded with the results. It doesn't have to be unicorn tears to work and it shouldn't cost a fortune. Regular lard and a drop or two of clove oil on a hardwood can keep a picnic table happy for months. You don't need to pay a fortune or destroy your kidneys to keep wood protected. But like you say, read the label - or better, the material safety sheet 👍
Wonderfully explained. Thank you for sharing. Pure Tung oil is the best there is. Everyone stay safe, warm, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
Thank you!
Very helpful video sir.
thank osha... the msds is a great resource!!!
Thank you
Thank you.
I have no idea how this cropped up in my feed but the production quality is excellent.
Stumpy,
Thanks for reminding us... or at the very least me... on how easy it is to get duped!
Good points Stumpy!
I'd be interested in hearing your views and experience of finishes such a Rubio Monocoat and Osmo oils. There's a lot of hype from some of the woodworker community about them and I know we can trust you to cut through that. Thanks for your videos!
I have used Osmo clear exterior deck oil on my meranti patio. This product performs better and different from most clear sealers. Never turns black from mold/fungus. Ages away gracefully. Non skid finish. But, you can’t apply more than two coats or stickiness results. Very slow curing, but beautiful grain enhancement. Excellent coverage, thankfully, because its very expensive and not readily available in the Seattle area anymore.
Pallmann and Arboritec are two others commonly used on floors. Called hardwax oil, they use a catalyzer and are mixtures of wax and oil and one has some poly. The hardener makes the difference. Never trusted Rubio because they made over-hyped claims at the time. Could be different now or bad marketing back in the day. They do have plenty of colors.