Stop Using Mineral Oil for Cutting Boards and Utensils!
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2022
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Think you know the best food safe finish? Think again! I tested a few of the most common food safe finishes and you might be surprised at the results.
Hope's 100% Tung Oil: amzn.to/3Q3NTiR
Food Grade Citrus Solvent: amzn.to/3OH50pM
Tried & True Varnish Oil - amzn.to/3JbVhGO
Food Grade Mineral Oil - amzn.to/3OQuYas
Walrus Oil Cutting Board Oil - amzn.to/3Bu4jwT
Don’t feel like mixing your own Tung Oil/Citrus Solvent mixture? Try Half & Half from Real Milk Paint Company: amzn.to/3zFcftS
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Do the new owners of the house know you keep coming back to record a youtube show?
I'll bet they are surprised waking up at
5am to a table saw running, and ill bet that planers not very quiet either.
shh they don't know yet 🤫
hahahahahaha!!
They probably have a very good sense of humor and do not mind him cutting up in the garage! ;)
🤣🤣
I made a bunch of those checkerboard cutting boards inspired by one of your first videos, and gave most of them to my friends as wedding gifts. 15 years later, I can tell you they have now featured prominently in more than a few divorce proceedings. I'm just saying, people's love of those cutting boards outlasted more than a few marriages. And for the record, the Salad bowl finish has also lasted the test of time
So what is your go-to finish for cutting boards? 50/50 mineral oil/beeswax?
I made a bunch of those back in the day for Xmas presents for family. Most are still in fine shape; one was left sitting in the sink in water for a day and cracked, but that's definitely abuse. 😒 One thing that's bothered me when I visit some of the recipients is when they put them on display as art pieces and never actually use them - if I knew they were going to do that, I wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of making them end grain. When I give people cutting boards now I ask the recipients to consider them as cooking tools and not decorations. End grain boards are pretty resilient to knife marks and I can always run there's through the drum sander if they want me to to remove knife marks.
@@barryomahony4983 another surprising way these can get ruined is by excessive drying rather than excessive water exposure. I found this out when I was moving, and placed one upright next to a floor vent for a few days while packing up the kitchen. Turns out excessive drying and excessive water will both cause warping in end grain cutting boards to the extent of cracking...
@@je4777 I used the "General finishes" brand salad bowl finish (which I'm guessing is equivalent to just about any other poly urethane), and touch them up every couple of years with either beeswax or mineral oil depending on what I have handy
Tung oil is good for utensils and *decorative* cutting boards. But a film finish on a functional cutting board doesn't make sense. Through oxidation, tung oil (and other drying oils) cross-link to form a polymer film. Expose that film to a knife and you have a minced film finish. For a working cutting board / butcher block, mineral oil penetrates, which hydrates the wood to avoid cracking/checking and helps to avoid absorption of what you're cutting. The addition of beeswax has a twofold benefit - it seals the wood grain to further prevent drying, and it creates pliable *self-healing* film that resist moisture penetration from what you're cutting.
50 years later, I could not put that any better!
I used 50/50 tung and orange oil on a countertop last year. It took weeks of application before it would no longer soak in.
Oils are penetrative and can't be classified as film finish. The tung oil is inside the wood, just like in your story about mineral oil. The tung oil stays inside after curing, stabilizing the wood and making it less susceptible to moisture due to sealing of the pores.
You're talking about cutting up oil inside the wood, which makes no sense.
@@White000Crowbut you're not supposed to keep soaking it 😄
@@stefanfyhn4668 that’s what the instruction told me to do.
I can comment on Cherry. I made a cutting board of padouk and amercian cherry pver 40 year ago, finished with Mineral Oil. It nevers gets submerged in the sink, just wiped off with clean or sometimes soapy water depending, and other than a few knife marks, I have to say that it has served me exceptionally well.
These days, I would put bees wax on it to prevent it from being easily washed off by dish detergent as another commenter below has mentioned.
As a Brazilian I have a responsibility to help you with your pronunciation!
Jatobá reads - JA (open A as in lAugh) - TO ( as in TOtally) - BÁ (open A as in BAth like the british say it. Strong silable of the word)
Jah - toh - bah. Love your content! I couldn't understand the first 7 times you said it hahaha
I've been using pure tung for years, but have never tortured it the way you did. I am so glad your results did not make me regret my choices. Well done.
Great job, Marc! I've been waiting on this video since you first teased it before the big move. It did not disappoint. Thanks for all that you do to make woodworking better.
Thanks so much! I restored an old teak patio set using tung oil, and it truly is amazing!
Mark, first off 4:42 - nicely done. Second of all, your results confirmed my suspicions. I have been using mineral oil on the boards I've given away and been testing different finishes on pieces for myself. I purchased a small can of T&T varnish and did a water test and was severely let down. I did a massive cheese board for my mom all finished in pure tung oil but she hasn't let me know how it is washing it with water. However this shows me I think I'm good to go!
Thanks Mark.
Saving the good stuff for a “rainy” day I see! Literally, all that crazy rain we had in Missouri! Great video Marc! Thanks for the effort as always! 😊
The older I get, the clearer it becomes that I shouldn't have dropped high school chemistry.
Thanks for pointing out the "tung oil finish" issue. I was about to use some of that for a project, and I'm glad I watched this video first.
I owe the CZcams algorithm a beer. This was perfect timing as I am going to make a couple of cutting boards and was researching finishes, I think you've made up my mind, thanks for the video!
I've used tung for decades, the citrus thinner is a great idea, thanks!
Man, the tessellation pattern on that cutting board is mind blowing. Excellent video.
Hi ! Great video, just in time for my new cutting board.
I want one of those beautiful cutting boards! Tell me who I contact to buy one please! Thanks, Genelle Smay
The pattern is called tumbling block
Thanx! i didnt know the term for what Id call a 3d effect :)
How the heck can you make a pattern like that? It looks like a printed graphic or something. I am so confused. You can do that with gluing wood together?
@@genellesmay1878 how would you switch finishes on a cutting board that’s been treated with mineral oil? What prep would be recommended if switching to tung oil or tung oil+orange solvent?
Really enjoy your channel as finishing is one of my favourite parts of woodworking. It is true that you should look at all ingredients going into your body. Earned some of my respect around the 6 minute mark.
Wow. I love your approach. I love your science, your mind, and your concern about what we eat when we don't know what it is. You excel at being human. Thanks for sharing, I subscribed.
Wow. Actual application of the scientific method & analysis of data on CZcams. As a semi-retired Earth science teacher & adjunct Horticulture instructor, your channel is a breath of fresh air. I've been trying to figure out how to best finish off our wooden cooking implements in the kitchen, and appreciate the information. Thanks for reasoned & cogent answer.
really?
do you only use wood utensils in WATER?
@@op3129 Don't understand this comment - didn't address this at all.
@@chrisnurczyk8239 water is not NEARLY the usual environment for a "food safe" wood finish.
boiling acid (aka simmering tomato sauce) is MUCH worse.
you want "scientific method"?
START with "fails in just water" - *_which is ABSOLUTELY a legit way to knock out 'first round'_*
yeah sure, anything that fails just water should be mocked/shunned/rejected.
THEN proceed to submerging various finishes in boiling acid (simmering tomato sauce).
bc "scientific" needs to include reality.
@@op3129boiling water is the ideal torture test, so what's your point?
Wow. Thank you so much. Thorough (even doing those tests for us!), speedy, and thoughtful review; you clearly know what you're doing! Loved your clean sense of humor and really interested in learning more from you. Thanks for all the time you put into this.
I really hope tung oil makes a comeback. It used to be one of the primary exports of our region and now that business line has basically died, partly because people just don't know that tung exists.
This is such a useful video. My mom is allergic to bees and everything to do with them (including beeswax) and we've never loved mineral oil on boards and finishes, so it's nice to know that other food-safe finishes are more available, and it's useful to know what sorts of things to request from craftsmen if/when we have things made. Thank you!
I love tung oil, glad to see I picked correctly! I was actually surprised at that result too! I'd love to see a long term follow up for something like this! or even natural finishes on outdoor projects!
There is a video on outdoor finishes.
Short answer - penetrating oils.
If you want a polymerizing "drying" oil that is food-safe, consider black sesame oil. It takes a good long time to set, but it does set hard, makes your kitchen smell nice, and requires about the same maintenance as tung or linseed. It's delicious for stir-frying greens too. I do still prefer mineral oil which really isn't a finish per-se because it's not drying.... mineral oil definitely is the highest-maintenance of all the options (as you point out) and does require occasional reapplication but my experience with cutting boards is that the boards last longer than with drying oils.
You have presented a very good and practical approach backed by sound scientific reasoning Mark. As a retired material scientist working for specialty chemicals, the endless quest to make any household goods "FOOD SAFE" still is a tough balancing act. However, a very crude and practical consideration to remember is what we used to share with most of our customers and even employees "It is the DOSE that makes anything a POISON (well, toxic)". Even FDA uses this as one of the criteria for approval of ingredients and product labeling
There are many "poisons" that build up in the body over time, so a "safe" dose can be harmful if you keep ingesting it. There are also things like uranium that's poisonous at any dose
@sopastar Well yes, you are of course, correct. But back to wood finishing. I haven't seen much of that uranium wood finishing oil around lately. Prolly took it off the market, right? 😅
@@Papadoc1000 Yeah, those were the days! Hard to get a hold of arsenic and lead paint too... At least we can still buy old uranium glassware
Tung oil has nuts, so even a small amount can be deadly to nut sensitive folks. Not sure why it’s being recommended for food cutting boards. Doesn’t seem right.
A little bit of research is telling me that it doesn't appear that a true natural tung oil will cause issues in a person with a nut allergy. Not sure it's worth testing that out on someone with a severe allergy, but I see it as something that could use more investigation, rather than assuming that it will cause a death@@1970rsc
I love how you used the control sample as a foundation on which to build your narrative, rather than as some sort of authenticity token. ❤
Exactly what I needed. Finally got our own house with a 2 car workshop we're moving into next month, and there's about to be a LOT of new wood utensils.
Thanks as always for the honest information/observations/opinions.
Damn, this video is coming full circle for me; way back when you were first getting started with your youtube channel, you made a cutting board that my dad saw and we decided to try to make out own. We enjoyed it so much that we started experimenting and designing our own and ended up creating a bit of a business. Ten years later we've sold several hundred of our high-end end-grain chop boards.
It's amazing that you are all in on Jatoba; because figured out early on that it was the PERFECT wood for cutting boards (but sanding the end grain is insane!
We've always been just using mineral oil / parrafin mix, but mabye we will do some experimenting after watching this vid.
Pretty interesting results indeed, Marc! Thanks for testing it! 😃
I'm going to look for tung oil here in Brazil!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Marc, I just found that The Real Milk Paint company has a new cutting board oil out that does not use any mineral oil. They feel that there is some much in our daily consumption that it has become a possible health problem because it block the absorption of water. They use a different formula of all natural oils. I have a couple bottles that I purchase a few weeks ago and I am going to try them on a cutting board I am making for my neighbors. I will let you know the results. (If you come to the St. Louis Rockler store in Bridgeton, MO, let me know if I can I will meet you there and bring a bottle to show you.)
Thanks for all you do for us in the woodworking community! It is very much appreciated!
Randy
One of the reasons why I think Mineral oil + waxes is a good finish for selling products like cutting boards or utensils is because even though you have to maintain it more often, its incredibly easy for customers who have 0 idea what they are doing to maintain.
Tung oil is a fantastic finish, but because it hardens up pretty fast it can result in customers screwing up the reapplication a couple of years down the road, where as mineral oil products are pretty much fool proof.
For basic everyday cutting boards. I have used food grade mineral oil and after dried a bees wax type top coat. Howard's or similar. Easy and economical.
Never a problem.
Great point. Plus you can sell them a can to reapply in a few months! People ask for care tips all the time and it's so easy to just hand them a can of mineral oil/beeswax wood butter.
@tombalko4589 yup. I gave out a small tin of my home made wax that had my logo and brand on it, as well as written instructions on how and when to apply some of it. Only cost me $2.50 per tin but was a good way of showing my faith in my products, and it keeps my brand in their minds for a few years after purchasing.
Tung oil is made from nuts, so can cause allergies to nut sensitive folks. It sure it’s a good idea to use around food.
Use food grade flaxseed/linseed oil rather than tung oil. Flaxseed aka linseed oil takes much longer to cure, and it remains pliable even after curing. You can mix beeswax in to make an easy to apply sealing oil/wax.
Thanks for this information, going to make me rethink the finish that I put on my cutting boards and bowls that I sell.
Well I work for a cutting board company myself we use food grade mineral oil and beeswax. There is a certain formula that has to be followed. And buy formula I mean the ratio of beeswax to mineral oil. And that's the only two ingredients that we use
What's the formula?
This is soooo cool!! I love it, thank you for putting in the work for other people to learn something useful :)
Thank you for conducting a well-designed experiment and reporting on it with the caveats that explain the limitations of what you learned. You are my new woodworking guru!
Tung oil is great, it also helps prevent staining in my maple utensils with spaghetti sauce, gravies, and soups. I cook a lot and I'm really only reapplying tung every 6mo with heavily used items and annually with my cutting boards. Great experiment, it helped satisfy a lot of my own curiosities.
Linseed oil is even better if 100% natural and food safe obviously
@@jeromechoquet2075 Yes, linseed oil is really good stuff but beware "Boiled" often means things were added rather than it actually being boiled. Raw linseed oil is really good on wooden parts of garden tools. You can put a lot on and leave the tool out in the hot sun for a while. Since linseed oil is good for the skin, a little rubbing off on your hands is really a good thing.
@@kensmith5694 I only use Livos bc I know it’s 100% natural, even the pigments
Yeap. Making sure there are no petroleum or non food safe drying agents is always the pest. Recently found tung oil supplier changed formula on their product. Have to check every time. Linseed oil can do stellar finishes raw too, but can take more time most than most normal human beings would consider to properly cure 🤣... loves airflow and lots of O2...
@@tttm99 Also beware of "boiled linseed" a lot of it has drying agents added. You can find the real boiled stuff some places.
Bud!!! BEST 20 minutes i spent on youtube in AGES!! Fantastic content and outstanding presentation skills. I work in television.. behind the equipment!! and i appreciate presenters with talent. I listened and watched you for 20 minutes and was not bored or wanted to click out. Well DONE!
This video solved so much of my own handwringing on the subject. Thank you!
What a helpful video! Thank you. Totally explains why mineral oil has never lasted long on any of my cutting boards.
Great info. Definitely going to try the tung oil. I tried the “tung oil finish” once and it went on like polyurethane and was a bit of a disappointment.
3:05 something interesting and important about linseed oil: if left unpolymerized, it can actually spontaneously polymerize and undergo a cross-linking oxidation reaction if left exposed for a while which creates a lot of heat, meaning that anything with high surface area, like for example any rags used to apply it can actually self-ignite and burn down whatever building they're in.
Not if you ask AvE
I think that is mostly a problem with those other "Danish oils" that put all kinds of chemical dryers in them - but yeah - I'm still super careful.
Note that 'flax seed oil' which is culinary grade raw linseed oil doesn't have any warnings about not putting oil soaked rags in the trash can. I suspect that it is because it dries way too slow to combust.
It will dry because I have used it on wood and it makes a nice hard finish in time......a LOT of time. haha
I loved this video. Useful information and such a great methodology. Also the kitchen countertop and backsplash are BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you Wood whisperer!
I had two black walnut /maple cutting slit apart over time by using a mineral oil soak.
I have since built three more using your tung oil method and it worked fantastic!! That was two years ago and they only require a wax coating once in a while.
Great video, but a couple of observations. First, cutting boards aren't typically exposed to boiling water, so in my opinion, that test isn't really representative of how they are used. It's a great test for utensils, though. I'd like to see a test that looks at how resistant the different finishes are to cuts and scratches and how good they are at filling/repairing knife cuts and scratches when reapplied. I think the mineral oil + wax finishes (like Walrus Oil and others) might perform better on that kind of test. Second, I make my own mineral oil/lemon oil/beeswax finish, and I've finished many cutting and charcuterie boards with it (and some other things). I've never had any trouble with oil leaching out of the boards. You just have to spend some time thoroughly wiping and polishing the boards after they've been finished. In my opinion, mineral oil leaching out of cutting boards is just not nearly as big a problem as you said here.
I agree with what you said. Nobody boils their cutting board. Obviously the tung oil held up better, but there are a lot of variables involved. And if you actually use the cutting board, what finish would you rather eat little chunks of. Idk, may give it a try. As far as Odies and the others, once they have fully cured they’re all safe.
@@BobBob-eh5sb James Hamilton at Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal maintains that most all finishes are "food safe" once they are cured. I think he is most likely correct, as he is knowledgeable and researches what he says before he says it. I'm not very concerned about tung oil being toxic once it is cured, or even before it is cured; however, the tung tree (leaves, seeds, etc.) are toxic, so that does make some people think twice about using for things that will come in contact with food. Just from a "better safe than sorry" standpoint, I will stick with mineral oil or fractionated coconut oil as the base for "food safe" finishes that I make; although I might experiment with using tung oil for finishes for furniture and other non-food-contact things.
@@linsen8890 Yeah, Stumpy is who I heard it from. The Tung oil looked good after the test, but that also made me wonder how thick of a coat it was to stay looking that way. Thinking it would tend to come off in chunks after repeated cutting. Probably wouldn't kill you, but might not taste good. Would consider it more for charcuterie boards.
I know I'm late to the party, but this was my feeling as well. For a cutting board, especially an end-grain one (which is all i use) I think keeping the wood fibers supple is much more important than maximal resistance to water / heat, because I think this will factor into the longevity of the board and it's ability to 'heal' knife marks. I have a thick block I bought from a Williams-Sonoma outlet store over 20 years ago that's been used almost every single day, and there's barely a visible mark on it. It's totally unscientific and anecdotal, to be sure, but I attribute a lot of that to having used only mineral oil-based products on it. These have evolved a bit from just pure mineral oil in the old days, to the home-made blend of mineral oil, beeswax and a bit of carnauba wax (
I used 100% tng oil on a fishing gaff that I turned 20 years ago, and the finish has held up well against sun, saltwater, and fish blood.
Great video.
What brand was that citrus solvent and what was the mixing ratio ?
I just watched a 20 minute video on cutting board oil techniques and I'm glad I did.
4:00 Polymerization might be partial. Polymer chains can be short, medium, long, etc. Shorter usually means more liquid. I think of polymers as legos. The individual molecule is a brick and you can squish bricks together to make more chains. The shorter, the easier they move around each other. The longer, the more stuck/hard they get.
I assume with Tried & True and similar brands, it’s intended to help the linseed oil cure faster than it would without a treatment, they same as “boiling” the linseed oil can. Lots of “BLO” on the market actually just has heavy metal driers or some other ingredient to speed curing, so not food safe, but Tried & True of course doesn’t have any driers. I use Tried & True original, which has just the linseed oil and beeswax, on my kitchen items, and I find that it actually does cure faster than another oil I have for kitchens from IKEA (picture of a wood countertop on the cab), which is a blend of only linseed oil and tung oil, no driers and not labeled as being processed in any way for pre-polymerization. I found a great website where the author was experimenting with making their own basic traditional finishes, and they actually heated their own pure linseed oil to “boil” it themselves and I found it really interesting.
Eating Polymerized oils is also what causes health issues. Look at the statistics, before the promotion and sale of Crisco. I heard it was originally utilized as a submarine lubricant. Around the year 1910 there was nearly zero problems related to cholesterol. With the advent of high temperature machine oils (Margarine, Soybean Oil, Shortening) that replaced saturated animal fats, there was an exponential rise in problems of health. I'm intentionally being vague.
@@Ritalie If you're drinking your cutting board's finish, you have bigger problems than the long-term health effects of polymerized oils.
@@Ritalie I believe what you’re thinking of is _hydrogenated_ oils, not _polymerized_ oils.
Caramel is a polymer. It can be gooey, or hard as glass.
The fact you called out one of own favorite products out shows me your integrity as a craftsman. Thank you for the great and informative video.
Hey thanks. this was very helpful. Wanted to thank you for all the time and effort you put into making this very useful resource for folks. Cheers!
Great info! I'm an artist, all oil paint is made with linseed oil, it is the original drying oil, and I love the stuff.
Thank you! Always interested in different ideas for maintaining wood used in the kitchen.
I think you had a great test for using harder finishes on wooden utensils, but I’m not sold on using it for cutting boards. I’m more interested in keeping a cutting board from drying out and cracking.
Every time we run a knife across the board, it pierces through the finish and exposes raw grain. So regardless of what is used, there is going to be some transfer of oil or micro shards of finish transferred to the food. All of the finishes are food safe, so I’m less concerned about that.
I sanitize my cutting boards after every use with bleach water (about a tablespoon of bleach per quart). About once a month I apply a food safe mineral oil to keep it from drying out. I imagine if I did this with a harder finish like the tung oil, it might cake up around the edges where the knife isn’t hitting it. There would probably be some discoloration and a more glossy appearance around the edges and a dull, lighter color in the middle.
"I’m more interested in keeping a cutting board from drying out and cracking."
It's totally a misconception in the cooking world. The wood in cutting boards is dry. It SHOULD be dry. If it was moist it would warp like hell as it dried down to equilibrium with your house.
It is just the moisture absorbed on a surface that causes expansion where those fibers absorbed water, and enough warping especially from becoming unevenly wet can cause cracking (doubly so if it was poorly glued, which is surprisingly common for mass-produced boards). Oil prevents cracking by slowing down that absorption of moisture. Actually oil is totally unnecessary if you take decent care of a well-made board-when washing, wet both sides, and make sure both sides dry evenly-but oiling will still help reduce the odors absorbed.
Love love love your scientific approach and how you explained all your reasoning. Looks like I’ll be trying tung oil for myself!
Outstanding
thanks for the diligent analysis. I'll give it a try with wooden bowls
Hola! 🖐Your tests and experiments are always simple such that a "simple man" like myself can learn and understand the info you are presenting though thoughtful and insightful that MUC is learned and gained. I really appreciate that, please keep them coming. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 👊
I always appreciate your science-like approach to these tests. Good stuff Marc!!
Walrus new plant based cutting board oil ditches the mineral oil, haven't tried it yet but wanted to get some for my next kitchen item or to refresh my cutting boards.
I've been using the tried and true instead of mineral oil for a while with good results 9n cutting boards...but for spoons and other in the pan items, I may need some Tung oil
Great compare & contrast review. Thanks for doing this!
100% Tung Oil has always been my go to and has the best long term protection from my experience. 👍
I realize that would be hard to test, but for cutting boards, it would make a lot more sense to see how the finish fares against knives. I don't know about your, but I've never cooked my cutting boards. Yeah, tung oil cures, but will that matter against a sharp knife? Honestly, for me, the biggest issue with a finish on a cutting board is that it will be destroyed by the knife cuts and will have to be reapplied regularly because of that, not because the finish dissolves in some way or another.
If you have to reapply the finish regularly anyway, I like mineral oil exactly because it doesn't cure, since that means I don't have to _wait_ for it to cure. I can apply the oil, wait a few minutes, wipe off all excess and the board's ready to go again if need be.
Several years ago I helped a friend make an end-grain cutting board form maple. We coated it with a bees wax/mineral oil mixture (approx. 1 to 4). He uses it every day and the finish has held up to his, very sharp, knives without a recoat.
I agree with your assertion that holding up to knives is the key to judging a finish.
Hi Marc, That was a very helpful video. I’m a beekeeper and sometimes woodworker, and I’ve wondered about finishes and in fact in the process of figuring out the best choice for a current project. You basically answered every question I have. And I’m sticking with tung oil and beeswax. It has been a very durable finish and is easy to apply and seems to hardness up just as “advertised.” I like the fact that you also use Citrusol solvent answered another question I’d been considering. Thanks!!!
What ratio of tung oil to beeswax do you use?
Thanks. Great video and very informative. I just started making cutting boards, and I've used pure tung oil for the finish. What I notice is the distinct smell from the board after application. Even after a few months, the smell is still there. Admittedly, the board hasn't been used or washed yet, so I'm not sure if that would ultimately diminish the scent. I'm hoping to sell some boards and I'm a little concerned that the smell may be of concern to some people. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Shane.
For those wondering, polymerized linseed oil is just heat treated linseed oil. It's another word for linseed stand oil. The heating process modifies the oil's fats to reduce drying time. It also creates a slightly different coating that yellows a little less than raw oil. Tung oil is usually sold in the same state.
It's basically boiled linseed oil. By that I mean the medieval definition of boiled linseed oil in that it's actually heated up. Linseed oil was originally mixed with litharge (lead) to produce a harder finish and boiled to reduce drying time. This very dangerous process resulted in a product called boiled linseed.
This was replicated later by using harsh chemicals so that it didn't need the lead additive or to be heated since raw linseed oil's boiling point is just above it's flash point. This VOC emitting product is modern boiled linseed oil.
Later, they made a process to polymerize linseed (and other) oils by heating them in a vacuum. This avoids spontaneous combustion and results in a new "boiled linseed oil" that doesn't have VOCs or lead.
Tung oil isn't made from linseed oil
True.
@@fritzkabeano1969 no one ever said it was.
@@unable1234 "Tung oil is usually sold in the same state.
It's basically boiled linseed oil."
@@fritzkabeano1969 You are making yourself look stupid lol
I think I'll switch to this for boards I give away, but for me I don't mind giving my boards aa light sanding and refinish once in a while to get rid of a lot of the lighter scratches and cut lines, so I'll keep using my mineral oil and beexwax finish. But this looks like a great option for utensils as you mentioned and probably even for non-kitchen related projects that doesn't get a lot of wear when hard wax oils are too pricey.
Great information.
Love the picture of Mayor Goldie Wilson in the background for those back to the Future enthusiasts.
Nice video and comparison my son made me a wooden spoon for my birthday as a beginner project turned out pretty good and was a nice surprise. Didn't know what to treat it with till now. He used coconut oil at first but will try this tung oil now thanks!!
Good call on the citrus solvent/tung oil. I did 7 coats on my new bb countertops, starting with 50/50 and ending with 80/20 oil to solvent for the final coat. I couldn’t be happier with, not only the look, but also the durability. I’ve respected your opinion for years and you really knocked this one out of the park. Thanks and God bless you and your family.
This is good stuff Marc. I appreciate that your willing to go against the grain of all the cutting board finish videos and shed some light on this topic. Your honesty earns you the top trustworthy spot among the woodworking influencers lol.
Solid Dad joke/pun. Well done.
I appreciate that he’s willing to go against the grain of everyone else in the world who correctly pronounces the word “polymerization”. 😜
@@jeffmansfield914 That’s what I get for learning that word in college and not on CZcams. 🤷🏻♂️ 😂
@@woodwhisperer
Been to college. Work in an industry that deals with polymerization of acrylic resins. Still don’t hear folks pronounce it that way. It really doesn’t matter, and only stuck out because you were saying it SO much. It’s cute.
To be fair, maybe it’s a regional thing.
You do great in depth articles and tests Marc.
I finish clients butcher block countertops with hopes 100% tung oil and recommend they reapply as needed. Fantastic finish and also great for my cutting boards!
Awesome test, thanks for the results! I wondered if you'd come across the process of heating up your wood pieces in the oven before applying mineral oils or the like? The concept as I've heard it is that the air in the woods expands due to the higher temperatures, so that when the pores are covered over with your oil it's sucked in deeper and more securely into the piece as the wood cools.
Supposedly this leads to the finish being more durable as you have air pressure and suction keeping the finish in place until the piece is reheated again. I say supposedly because I haven't had time to try many pieces, but I did it with one wooden spoon and not only does that spoon clean up faster, it stays pretty hydrophobic even in boiling liquids. The only time the oil/wax combo I used came off was when I was stir frying at much higher temps than I used to impregnate the finish into the spoon.
It will absolutely thin the oil down a little and suck it into the wood *just a little* as it cools . Don't heat the wood over about 170F, it could warp, weaken, or embrittle it. Some people use vacuum pots, which *seriously* draw oil or stabilizer into the wood!
@Bob_Adkins if the oil is flaxseed/linseed, the heat will help start the curing process.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!! I have been using Tung oil and citrus solvent for years with all my food contact projects and an awful lot of my regular furniture as well. EVERY cutting board video I see ends with mineral oil and I will never understand why. I think people fear the reapply factor. If you are selling these things it is easier to tell the clients to just reapply mineral oil or an oil board wax from time to time. I think it's an opportunity to sell them some Tung/citrus blend to reapply every year or two rather than every month.
Cause you are not supposed to COOK your darn cutting-board - unless you are a maniac.
Or conducting a scientific experiment in which case you need to create extreme conditions to remove the time factor from the analysis
Fantastic job on a subject i have wondered about for many years and the simple test you did validated my concerns. I never felt like the wood truly absorbed even if i put it out in the sun and heated it up before application ( works well with leather boots when they need conditioning but thats a totally different oil). My question is do you mix the tung oil and citrus solvent 50/50 and is it only good for certain period of time?? Thank you for all the effort and attitude in your approach.
Thank you for this informative video! I am currently trying to learn how to treat my cutting board and wood cookware before purchasing, and this was helpful.
T&T doesn't have metallic driers which is why they chose the polymerization process to allow it to dry/cure without them. It's the equivalent of basic BLO without the driers. That's why I've used it for more than a couple decades. It's my favorite finish for decorative things as well as for situations where food is involved.
Thanks for sharing Marc. I'm about to make a cheese slicing board with a kit I got from amazon and i have been trying to think of a better finish than mineral oil because i know that it will get used alot at our house so therefore it will be getting wet and washed alot and I didnt think that mineral oil would hold up very long without reapplying often. And I've always thought that tung oil was just for furniture and didn't know they made it food safe too. This really opened my eyes to explore more options when it comes to finishes so thanks for that.
Glad I saw this, thanks for sharing. My father swore by Tung Oil, and I've used it for more furniture or tool oriented items, but I never would have thought to use it on items that touch food. I use a mixture of mineral oil and beeswax on cutting boards and the like, but the one I use most needs refinishing every few months. I'll have to give Tung Oil a shot on my next one.
The Goldie Wilson poster is 👌
I’ve been using hemp oil with a hemp oil bees wax top coat. It’s Time to get some tung oil. Great information, thanks so much.
I have done the same as you with good results. Time for me too to do a tung oil comparison.
I prefer the sound of hemp seed oil because it is edible. I would NOT put any oil on my chopping board that I could not eat. Otherwise, it is toxic. Hemps seeds are edible therefore not toxic. Tung oil is not edible so why would we put it on a chopping board? That is my view.
Very interesting stuff, Marc! I really want to try the Tung oil on my cutting board now, but I have applied mineral oil already. Would I have to sand all that off or can you apply it directly over the mineral oil? Keep up the great work!!
That can be tricky. Mineral oil doesn't dry and because it soaks in deep, you can't exactly just sand it away. Over time though, it will dissipate and you might be able to slowly but surely switch over to Tung oil. I'd start by cleaning the board aggressively, drying thoroughly, sanding lightly, and then applying the tun oil in VERY light coats, wiping away any excess. See what happens.
@@woodwhisperer Tung oil and mineral oil are compatible and easily mix and mingle. It could be worth a try to apply it directly over the mineral oil, won't hurt a thing to try.
Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks so much for this. I love the tip about diluting tung oil with the citrus product. I've applied a tung oil finish to furniture before, and the end result is stunning, but the oil is really tacky and requires a LOT of elbow grease to buff it out to a smooth finish. I wouldn't want to put that effort into a wooden spoon or cutting board.
I’ve recently gotten into making spoons, cutting boards, etc… and have been considering Walrus Oil. Looks like I’ll be going with tung oil instead. I have been using coconut oil and that seems to do quite well.
I’ve been using coconut oil myself and like the results. Recently tried both Walrus oil and mineral oil, jury still out. Also I am trying a wax type finish, Wood Butter from Macy’s Place.
You know I really have to thank you for doing this video… My wife is a candy maker and primarily she uses copper pots in the old tradition and wooden spoons to stir most of these products get well in excess of 240° depending on the type of year even higher in some different applications I have made her some paddles and I’ve always been hesitant about what to finish them with I’ve made some out of maple and I’ve made some out of Brazilian cherry if you would like I have absolutely no problem sending you photos
for candy making naked is best. the finishes do come off and flavor candy.
I say the same thing - don't put finish of any kind on those spoons and tools.
I have been using tung oil more and mineral oil/beeswax less over the past few months. One of the main reasons is the seepage I get with mineral oil when there's a temperature change - like going from my temperature controlled shop to an outdoor market.
I did not consider using a foodsafe solvent. I'm going to give that a try to see if I can get a little better penetration with the Tung oil without having to put it on thick.
Thanks for sharing another great video!
Very helpful, thanks! I'm going to try cutting tung oil with citrus solvent, which is a method I'd never heard of before your video.
One addition to those hard oils like Osmo being marked as "food safe". They are not necessarily intended to be used for items used with food, like cutting boards.
"food safe" in this case is just a term that is used for things that are not toxic or hazardous when cured. This is for example a requirement when used for wooden toys which small children may put into their mouth.
That orange oil is great stuff. It also works nice as a degreaser or put into water with a drop of dawn for cleaning in general. It is also great to loosen and remove stickers and labels you cannot simply get peeled of.
You are correct. Adding a polymerizing finish to a cutting board makes it more like a plastic one. A breeding ground for bacteria.
So are you saying “it shouldn’t be used in cutting boards?
@@browncrcb Yes, they may be a good option for some toys (those less likely to be put in the mouth) or tables etc. and out of experiences they are great finishes. But no, they are not suitable for cutting boards.
@@alexanderkupke920 This comment completely contradicts what he just said in this video, that the polymerized hardening oils are the best for wood surfaces and cutting boards, because they don't leave an oily residue. Is there any research you can point to, to illustrate why a dry oil would be worse and cause bacteria?
@@Ritalie Not exactly. I used that Osmo stuff before myself, and at least the can I had said it was not suitable for cutting board or items used with food, despite being food safe. There sems to be a difference if this is for example used on a toy a child may put into the mouth, which already qualifies as food safe or something like a salad bowl that may be exposed to oil or acidic substances over time. I think food safe means not leeching out potentialy harmful substances. For a cutting board, I would not bet on any specific antibacterial or whatever properties from those oils anyways. For one, most wood, if it has a chance to dry properly, has already antibacterial properties (through tanins etc contained in the wood), also, how deep do you think any oil will penetrate into the wood actually? If you don´t let it soeak in in a vacuum chamber, not as dep as you might think. So the oil protects the surface, but as soon as you get a heavy scratch or cut in the wood, you will be through the oil coating anyways. those groves are actually what may support bacterial growth, if you don´t get all residue cleaned out and you may create a moist environment. plastic boards in theory are safer, but it was found, that those cuts and grooves likely close up immediately afterwards, encapsulating residue.
So I generally agree with what Marc found, I just made a comment about something I found in the past as a restriction by one specific brand.
Almost all of those oils will polymerize over time. Best example is linseed oil, which for that reason traditionally was used for paint and stuf as well. The stuf like Osmo and some other products just have additives that speed up polymerization by a lot. Which is a considerable factor, as a traditional oil paint out of linseed oil and for example white pigments used to paint old wooden window frames, or with sawdust and stuff was used as glasing putty, takes weeks to fully cure and harden. That is also why today mostly an oil varnish is used, not actual oil paint. No one has time for that any more.
Great information, Marc. It didn’t come as a surprise me that the tung oil ended up doing so well since it is a polymerizing oil meaning that it actually hardens when it cures. I was a little disappointed that you didn’t include walnut oil in your test though. Like tung oil it is also a polymerizing oil which I think would give very similar results to what you got with the tung oil. I also like that walnut oil does not darken the wood nearly as much as tung oil.
@@ReidLangford just so you know, that's a common CZcams scam and not Marc replying.
@@teguh.hofstee yeah I figured that out. I PM’d Marc on here and he told me it was a scam. Thanks for the reply and advice!
I'm also wondering how walnut oil would compare to tung oil. Does anyone have links to any relevant evidence or tests?
Thanks for your informative and detailed presentation. Question: Is using the citrus oil solvent vs heating the finish and/or project only for convenience?
Great stuff Marc! I recently made some Olivewood and Ecopoxy charcuterie boards as gifts and had planned on using Walrus Oil on them. Do you think the citrus solvent will affect the resin?
Man, thanks for making this video. I always use mineral oil and my cutting boards look great, but after a few washes, they start to look dull and feel rough. I was thinking of switching to using only telephone poles and railroad ties from now on, but maybe I’ll give that tung oil a try. Thanks Marc!
Go for the telephone pole and railroad ties. That creosote adds just the right tang to your foods. 🤣
@@jscott9384It’s tough to find the comment I’ve seen you keep referring to. CZcams comments on a tablet do not allow searching. Bummer. Maybe I’ll find it eventually?
Intriguing results. I grabbed T&T for easier furniture finishing (tung oil can be fussy on drying) but good to know for utensils and cutting boards. I wonder if it's just down to the difference between linseed and tung oil when dried. T&T original is just their polymerized linseed oil with nothing else and would have been an interesting confirmation.
Original still does use beeswax. I wonder though what the proportions are compared to the finish he used.
Thanks for the tip on "Tung Oil Finish". I had no idea.
Mark, great topic. Do you have a video on making those utensils?
What proportion of tung oil to the orange solvent would you suggest? Is it a full 50/50? 75/25? Or closer to 90/10? (larger number is tung oil, smaller is solvent)
Thank you I’m grateful you did this video I’m a beginner wood worker thank you happy new year
Came here for an oil lesson. I got that and found a fellow BTTF fan!! Thanks!
My favorite finish for almost everything I make is Tung Oil and Beeswax. It's a rare case when I want a shiny finish, I love the soft glow and luster of Tung Oil with a wax finish.
How do you mix the wax and oil? What ratio do you like?
I too would like to know your mix ratios, if you don't mind sharing.
@@charlesdeshler202 I start by applying Tung Oil diluted with mineral spirits (about 50/50). Apply liberally and let soak in for about an hour. Then wipe off excess and let dry for several days. I repeat this process 3 - 5 times with a light sanding between. When this is done, I apply beeswax by rubbing a block of beeswax with a clean rag that is wet with mineral spirits, it helps lubricate and soften the wax for easy coverage. The polish.
@@SgtPUSMC thanks, if you use this on wooden window frames at the coast, do you have to lightly sand it down before renewing /re-applying a tung oil /mineral spirit coat (for maintenance purposes)
Thanks Marc. Great timing as I've been searching for an alternative to Walrus oil that I've been using for awhile. Do you have any experience with General Finishes Salad Bowl finish? is it a similar example to hard wax oil as you mentioned (food safe..when cured?). just curious!
that's pretty much a varnish product that's been approved for food contact once dry. It's a completely different beast from the stuff we're talking about here.
@@woodwhisperer Marc, can you share your thoughts on varnish vs tung oil? have you moved away from varnish altogether at this point, still use it in some cases, or something else? I know in the past you've said you preferred varnish for cutting boards. thanks! great video.
My family used Tung oil for our white oak kitchen table and it was only reapplied over a decade later. I'm a fan.
I’ve been looking for a reason to get away from the classic mineral oil bath……..totally moving to the tung oil, citrus solvent process on my boards ….. great process / test 👍🏻💪🏼👍🏻💪🏼👍🏻 🙏
I’m currently using a jojoba oil and beeswax mixture. You’ve inspired me to try some torture testing and comparing the results.
I also have a few pieces of Brazilian Cherry in the garage. I see some utensils in my future. I like your simple design.
I've been using the same concoction from a local bee farm for years, I'm curious too.
My understanding is that jojoba oil shouldn’t be used internally. Not that anyone’s drinking their cutting boards or utensils, but that would give me pause.