Drinker's Chasers - Marvel Hates Its Legacy Characters
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2022
- In this clip from Open Bar 16, we talk about Marvel's gradual destruction of its most popular characters to try to launch the next generation.
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Cap did not realise that being born small and puny, in the Great Depression, and then living during WW2 was totally nullified by having low melanin.
He’s a relatable person in the mcu and I loved him like a brother!
🤭😆
Cap also doesn't realise that as a boomer he fucked the economy
@@emperorsean1 Cap isn't a boomer. He's part of the 'Greatest Generation', you know, the Boomer's parents.
@@emperorsean1 Cap: *“I was fucking frozen in ice for decades dude! Gimme a break!”*
Marvel 2008- What is a hero?
Marvel 2022- What is a woman?
Marvel 2024- What is a franchise?
Marvel can't answer that because they're not biologists. 😆
I don’t know what a woman is, but whatever it is, it sure as hell is a lot better than a mere male superhero.
Matt Walsh will find an answer, hopefully 😂
Damn it!!
I was gonna make the BIOLOGIST joke
I love the logic: criticize male characters for being toxic and make them look stupid then replace them with toxic female characters who act stupid. Genius.
It's aggravating especially if you know anything about these female characters and see them completely ruined when adapted by bad writers.
She-Hulk isn't suppose to be a replacement for Hulk.
It's funny because they actually think they're doing a good thing. Marvel doesn't hire "writers" anymore, they hire activists and that's the problem.
People are insisting that Hulk's story isn't over. It is. They're clearly grooming She-Hulk to replace him. He'll still be around in the MCU, but he's gonna be a consultant/mentor now. A buff nerd with green skin behind a computer.
Only used to mock the fans by using Stereotypes.
Batgirl got shot in the spine to become Oracle.
Hulk had to get his balls removed to become the MCU’s version.
Babs got off easier.
MCU Hulk sucks anyway. Everyone hated what Ang Lee did with the Hulk, but nowadays I feel that's the more faithful representation of the character and that movie is underrated.
@@redman9493 still the only movie where he actually got stronger the angrier he got and showed his amazing healing.
@@redman9493 I agree; I think what the mass audience want is BIG GREEN MAN SMASH STUFF HARd, what the character needs is to grow like was shown in the OG Hulk movie.
Let's be brutally honest.
If the MCU had started with the characters that are being introduced now (except Dr. Strange) there would not be an MCU.
The MCU would've died after 2-3 flops.
The MCU was built on Iron Man's and Cap's shoulders.
Compare the new characters with them. It's an effing joke.
You can't tell them this because the people dismantling these established characters are actually the villains of our story. They just don't see themselves as it.
True. So used to standing on the shoulders of giants, they forget what it's like to walk on the ground.
Actually, the MCU started when Robert Downey Jr said "I am Iron Man". The Hulk with Ed Norton flopped not long before that. One line carried a whole franchise for over a decade, and nobody at Marvel can figure out why! It comes to something when a one-time villain like Ultron is more compelling than all the new "heroes" that have been churned out starting with Captain Marvel...
@@marcofk Robert Downey Jr’s Tony Stark built the entire MCU in a cave, with a box of scraps. It’s infuriating that the new “heroes” love insulting him these days while forgetting that they will never see a light of day without the foundation built by him.
I don't find Doctor Strange to be all that compelling as a character to be honest. I don't know if it's Cumberbatch's rather dry portrayal but i don't find him that much of a magnetic character/prescence.
I'm not the biggest Marvel lore guy, but wasn't She-Hulk's original story the one where she was seriously injured and the only thing that could save her was a blood transfusion from Bruce? Which explains why she is able to change into her new form
That would make a lot of sense
I thought so too.
Glad to see there are people who remember the good will set by the 90s Hulk Cartoon
That was her original story yeah. She didn't have rage inside she just wanted to be seen, so becoming a model was part of it. But...again, she's a comic relief. She uses comic books in her work.
From what I remember she's was then permanently she hulk, she wasn't as powerful as the original hulk though
They totally dismiss the "hero's journey", and just go with "get the power and you're good". They neutered Thor, The Hulk, turned Captian America's legacy into a diversity hire and wasted great opportunities for Hawkeye and Black Widow. Just proves that evil can only destroy, never create.
This is truly evil in my book, changing the way you think. All of my friends just take them for granted, like "it's just a movie", while they slowly appeal to ideas such as feminism, gender spectrum, and collective guilt. Horrible.
I agree with you. It really seems like we are experiencing a bad "What If" movie!
Thor (1) is the movie of what happens to a character when they get their power too easily, even when brought up in the noblest of environments, and what is needed for them to grow into a hero.
All to artificially prop up a female lead character that failed and got written out of her own sequel
If you want to judge people entirely based on their genitals and skin colour, then you can't have anything like personal struggles or personal growth. That's SJWs. If you want to perfectly identify with a character, then any hardship they face seems like a personal attack. So there are no hardship, no growth, and everyone was perfect to begin with you go girl.
"Who has suffered more than Wanda?" Uh, just off the top of my head, Thor? Dude watched his father die, lost an eye to his own sister, lost his world shortly after, then lost half his remaining people to Thanos and watched his brother be murdered in front of him, then failed to stop Thanos from murdering half the universe in what should've been his moment of victory and held himself personally responsible for the resulting loss of lives.
Wanda lost her boyfriend, then enslaved an entire town full of people so she could live out a fantasy life, and then got so upset about having to leave her fake children that she went on a multi-verse killing spree looking for real versions of her children that she could kidnap.
Why exactly are we supposed to feel bad for Wanda?
Eh, kinda but not really. To play devil's advocate a bit, I don't think you're actually acknowledging the totality of her actual story. Her craphole country at the crossroads to everywhere else got bombed to kingdom come. Her hometown got blown to bits and her parents died when she and her brother were children, leaving them orphans, traumatized under rubble for days waiting for a bomb to blow up in their faces until they "miraculously" got out. They got taken in by Hydra who indoctrinated them and did cruel experiments on them which should have killed them for God knows how long to activate their powers. After seeing the error of her ways and trying to make right, she basically screws up playing hero in a somewhat unavoidable accident because Crossbones put the team into an unwinnable situation that got dozens of people killed. Not her fault, but not how the government sees it, so they try to register all the heroes in a power grab that tears apart her new family, resulting in said government throwing her and her friends who didn't do anything wrong into the underwater gulag for super psychos simply because they didn't want big brother breathing down their necks telling them who they can and can't help. Eventually she had to kill the one "guy" who actually stuck around, understood her and didn't treat her like a monster or a potential ticking time bomb, and her legitimate sacrifice of her own desires accomplished absolutely nothing because Thanos pulled an Uno reverse card and got what he wanted from Vision anyway, leaving her absolutely nothing to show for it. That's a legitimate sacrifice that was for absolutely nothing (so it makes sense that she'd later say screw it and everyone who gets in the way of what she wants down the road, it's not good, but it makes sense). Then, sure, she helps save the world, but that's some small consolation to her when you've lost multiple of the only friends she ever had along with the only other stabilizing element in her otherwise chaotic and depressing life once its all over. Absolutely nothing justifies anything she does beyond this point, of course, but I think some people kinda attribute more to her than the show itself actually does. People act as though she just decided to enslave thousands of people when she didn't. Sure, that's what she ultimately did, no excuses, and she absolutely needed to pay the piper for that, but they pretty clearly established that her magical TV land was basically an accident, a subconscious product of her broken psyche. She basically went batshit crazy, had no concept of the reality of the world around her and didn't want to wake up from her delusional dream world because she didn't have the help she needed to cope with reality (the fact they didn't use Hawkeye to try to reach her is dumb as it would make sense for her friejd to do for her, but it's obvious why it didn't happen, because the stupid novice showrunner said they didn't want a man outshining the wahmen protagonist). As far as I'm concerned, she has an entirely sympathetic backstory that poor writing kinda failed to communicate because they spent more time telling instead of showing. Some people kinda forget because they just stop listening the longer someone takes to tell them something rather than actually show them. Apparently the terrible "they'll never know what you've sacrificed" line was misinterpreted according to the writer or showrunner or whatever. It wasn't supposed to excuse her actions. The point was that nobody's gonna care about the raw deal of a life that brought her to this point or the sacrifices made to do anything good because they'll just remember the pain and suffering she caused them because she allowed herself to lose her mind and lose control of her powers in a moment of weakness. Basically, ya done goofed, but you're still deserving of empathy, and I'm sorry life gave you a raw deal.
That makes a whole lot more sense, but it was terribly communicated. I think we were meant to absolve her of guilt because the whole "enslaving a town thing" wasn't a willful act of selfish malice, but their incompetance at telling this story lead them to believe that this meant it was perfectly okay to just let her off entirely. That's like someone getting off for manslaughter just because it wasn't premeditated murder. Manslaughter is obviously not nearly as bad or deserving of equal guilt and condemnation as premeditated murder, but just letting someone off with no consequences whatsoever is a gross miscarriage of justice. Sure, she didn't psychically enslave thousands of people on purpose, and that retains some of her integrity, but the least they could've done was more clearly acknowledge the horrific nature of what she did regardless of her intentions amd have her face some consequences, even if she does so disingenuously. Send her back to the Raft and able to go on leave to work off her sentence. It would've changed absolutely nothing about how the story actually progressed, and it would've preserved some semblance of justice. She could've just astral projected out of her cell to secretly study the Darkhold under her captors' noses, and then break loose when she's temporarily released from prison to help Dr. Strange. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness could've basically played out more or less the same as far as her story is concerned. Meanwhile they arrest the guy in charge of actually stopping what Wanda did because reasons... The ending of Wandavision in particular pretty much ruined what good work they were at least trying to do to give the character more of the depth and attention that she lacked in previous movies. The fact they leaned into her being a delusional villain in Dr. Strange 2 was pretty much the only route they could've taken with her at that point, because whether it was intended or not, that's clearly where Wandavision left her after she paid absolutely no penalty for her crimes while comtinuing to study the most evil object in the universe to acquire more power. I have zero issue with her goi g psycho over imaginary made up children because Doctor Strange calls her out for exactly what she was doing, and it was pretty clearly established that holding onto delusions is pretty much all she feels she has left, and because doing good and helping others never actually got her anywhere in life, it makes sense from her mentally ill (and magically corrupted) perspective that she's entitled to tell anyone who stands in the way of what she wants to go screw themsevles. Personally, I think she should've just gone back to the Raft willingly at the end of Dr. Strange and left the door open for a redemption arc down the line, but they seem to have, at least for the moment, closed that door on that by killing her off now that Olsen's contract has apparently run its course. The idea of what they were doing with the characters makes total sense if she's understood as a tragic character who becomes a villain because of the loss that being a hero gave her, but I think it doesn't communicate well because they failed to follow the basic storytelling rule of show, don't tell. I think Wandavision tried to fix this, but whatever the problem was, whether it's poor writing ability, an honest to God warped sense of morality, an ignorance of how the justice system works, or some combination thereof, the ending of the character's own show just falls flat on its face in execution from a narrative standpoint. I'm perfectly fine with how she was used in Dr. Strange, although I can see an argument that she shouldn't have just killed herself, but I don't blame anyone for having little investment and failing to follow the actual story she was given after Wandavision fumbled the ball in the end out of incompetance.
Because Wanda cries a lot while Thor is fat so Thor is funny and pathetic.
Because wamen.
Thor, Bucky, Rocket, Nebula.
All of them suffered more than Wanda.
Thor and wanda are the two characters that have probably suffered the most in the MCU, but you are really underselling how much Wanda has lost
1. as a small child her parents were killed in front of her by mortars obliterating their apartment, she and her brother than spent 3 days hiding under a bed staring at an unexploded shell with "Stark industries" painted on the side, wondering if it was going to go off and kill them.
2. After years of fermenting hatred she and her brother volunteered for traumatic experimentation in an effort to help destroy the man who she felt was responsible for her parent's deaths (Tony Stark)
3. She aided a villain in an attempt to destroy Stark, only to realize she had been aiding someone who was going to destroy the human race, and realized she was personally responsible for it. She attempted to help stop it only for her brother to be killed by the monster she fed in Tony's mind.
4. After the death of her brother she went on to try and atone by working with the Avengers. she accidentally kills a dozen people preventing a suicide bomber from killing her leader and a market full of people, sparking a Civil war among the superheroes. she aids her leader (Captain america) in trying to prevent a madman from getting his hands on an army of sup-soldier assassins only for the hero responsible for keeping her locked up to accidentally paralyze another hero trying to stop her. As punishment for trying to do the right thing, she was put in a straight jacket on a maximum security prison in the middle of nowhere.
5. Post Civil war she flees from the hero business and is just trying to live out a life with Vision when he gets stabbed in the abdomen by aliens trying to rip the stone out of his skull. she has to face the fact that she is going to die protecting him before they are saved by Cap's group and Vision suggest she *kill him, her lover* to prevent Thanos getting the stone.
they try to find another way but fail and *she does* kill him to save half the life in the universe, only for Thanos to revive him in front of her and kill him *again*
6. She gets the opportunity to fight thanos and avenge her lover, but fails. she can't even get vengeance.
7. she asks for her lover's body to bury, but is told "nah bitch it's government property" by a twatwaffle who expressly dismisses Vision's sentience and wants her to bring him back as a weapon.
and that is about all her character arc before she *unintentionally and accidentally* enslaved a town full of people. Hell it is as much Strange's fault as hers for his failure to reach out to her about her magic before something bad happened. strap a bomb to someone and then take away everything they ever loved and don't be surprised when they blow up.
you can complain about how she seems to be held up a bit as a hero by one bad line of dialogue, but there is no doubt she is a far better character than other female marvel "heroes" like Marvel and Valkyrie... and yeah Valkyrie really is a piece of shit when you realize that her story was her girlfriend in the Asgard military died saving her life so she went to a backwater world to be a slaver for drinking money but now she is kween of asgard because diversity.
Wanda is just a human with superpowers dealing with far more grief than any human is meant to bear. she is definitely not a hero, but just because someone isn't a paragon of virtue doesn't mean one shouldn't have sympathy for them. She tries to do the right thing and every time it always goes to shit. she tries to be left alone and that goes to shit too. She tries to get closure and *that* goes to shit. So when everything kept going to shit she said fuck it and exploded into a villain.
Thor on the other hand is a 3000 year old Asgardian god. he has as much or more tragedy than Wanda but handles it in a different way. He internalizes it and sets it aside. bottling it up in the masculine manner of Stoicism until there is just too much and he breaks down into a drunkard trying to avoid facing it. If he were personally able to have created a reality where none of it ever happened I bet he probably would have too.
I haven't watched anything after endgame, and i don't intend too. I didn't like their usage of Thor as comic relief in Endgame at all either, male mental health issues being dismissed, as per usual. Endgame itself was a mixed bag. i could definitely feel the dismissiveness towards the old guard/male characters.
Haha, I changed this. Now you'll never know what it said originally! SYKE
That's the Luke Skywalker approach to propping up the new, diverse, establishment approve, politically correct substitutes for beloved characters.
The fact that they thought it would work shows just how much they live in an echo chamber, cut off from reality itself. A child could tell you that's a shitty idea.
It also makes Disney & all involved look like the bigoted twats that they are.
You forgot Iron Man lol but yeah, too many people insulting Tony Stark these days just to absolve the crimes of their favorite characters like Wanda and Yelena.
@@nont18411 And it's so trite, too. And I think it actually started with how they did his character in "Civil War." This idea that Stark now suddenly believes he and the others HAVE to be under the thumb of authorities, because...an alien sentience hijacked his well-meaning "Iron Shield" defensive measure and almost killed the planet. Really? Out of ALL the Avengers, we're supposed to believe that the former narcissistic playboy who gave the US government the finger in his second movie is gonna just accept ALL the blame for something that he couldn't have anticipated, and that wasn't, AT ALL, his fault?
And now, even after giving Stark the martyr treatment in "Endgame", they want to go "Fuck that guy. Let's put a WOMAN in the suit and watch her do...better?" Ya, no, sorry Disney. You already did enough damage, and you're not topping "suicides himself to save THE UNIVERSE."
@@jmhaugen4757 Wanda fans are insulting Tony like shit now whenever people criticize her character. Especially about how he created Ultron while conveniently ignoring that he made Ultron in the first place BECAUSE WANDA MESSED UP WITH HIS MIND.
2012: "That's my secret, Cap. I'm always angry."
2022: "That's my secret, Jen. I'm always nerfed."
F
I knew when Stan Lee died...it was just a matter of time...The Founder passes, his Legacy collapses
Or as George Lucas found out, you don't even need to die, just give up control.
Very quickly it seems. When the men leave, the ship sinks.
Spot on.
Same with Hideo Kojima. Once Konami gave him the boot after MGSV they turned a stealth action espionage game into a fuckin zombie game.
Nuff Said.
@Captain McDog yep plenty of elderly abuse near the end of his life. Very sad to think about.
They follow the incredibly succesful Last Jedi formula: if you want to build up your new female/diverse version of the old hero people love, you have to degrade/demean the old hero.
It's not a formula, it's straight misandry that Feminism has been calling Equality for decades until recently when they realized we got wise & changed it to Equity.
Wow, Gabriel. Spot-on!
I would argue that Phase 4 is the Last Jedi phase of the MCU. We just haven't hit a hero drinking the green space manatee milk scene, yet.
It's successful is getting the audience to hate them and stop listening. I'm not sure in what other way it's successful.
@@gabrielboorom2683 Time to start calling this out. They deserve it.
Anybody backing Wanda is kidding themselves. She's a literal walking villains origin story. Magnetos motivation are more 1000% sympathetic than hers, but nobody was stanning on Reddit for him to not get taken out by the Xmen.
Yeah screw Wanda really. Thor has lost WAY more and he never did crap like her.
wanda wasn't evil originally she came from Avengers comics first why relationship with Vision, it wasn't until later in comics they change her back story to be daughter of Megneto, but what they did in wanda vision is pure evil, still good for brotherhood, don't think Megneto would of been that upset what she did to that town, issue is only way to save that last episode was Megneto showing up then it would made more sense.
@@michaeltate7287 And yet he was constantly criticized and got punished for it (albeit he did nothing wrong AT ALL). Wanda’s grief was treated as a tragedy. Thor’s grief was treated as a laughingstock.
@@nont18411 That's because Thor was MALE.
@@nont18411 don't get me started how they did "fat thor" dirty. They really mocked his trauma.
I'm terrified for Wolvie. You "can't" have hairy, smoking, beer-drinking, aggressive, leading man right now. This non-transforming Banner is awful too imo.
Afaik Wolverine has closed off his story line with "Logan", at most they can take the wolverine-like girl from that movie, but she is mostly irrelevant
@@marcogenovesi8570 i was thinking the same
You left how how comics Wolvie also screwed women casually!
It’s funny and sad that Mysterio creating cgi Zombie Tony is the least disrespectful thing that happened to Tony Stark in the recent years.
WHAT ABOUT STARGATE?!?
What does Stargate have to do with Marvel?
The De-Emasculiation is ever going on, hence why people call this the 'M-She-U'. Strong, empowering Characters dont exist per se, Writers just lower all other Characters so their Female Characters are Strong in Comparison. We have a giant Representation-Problem, it's just not what the Woke think it is. It's objectively them who cause it, creating objectively bad Content Wave after Wave - Content that minority groups just do not feel represented by. Ever.
@@anubusx stargate sg1 is better than every marvel movie. I watched that show at least 10th times.
Everyone who built the MCU has been fired or left.
The MCU is dead
Kevin Fiege, John Favreau?
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p Fiege has shifted so far up the totem pole he has other projects, and Favreu has shifted almost entirely to Star Wars
Exactly, and everything is now going to shit lmao
And those who stayed either got corrupted or were already pieces of shit.
legacy characters did all the heavy lifting and the diverse cast comes in after to take all the credit while spitting on the legacy that allows the “diverse” characters to exist
This. 🏆
Almost like reality certain people built great nations and their replacements spit on their legacy while accomplishing nothing themselves
Beautifully said
Keep saying its in the comics so its fine. When the comic was created last week getting zero sales in order to force diversity into shows/movies which never had that character
Art imitating life.
Yeah Bucky should have been the new cap, they could have had a brand new trilogy of films set around bucky becoming cap as a way to redeem himself, then realising in the second he truly isn't guilty for the acts he did. Then in the 3rd following Steve's example and finally being able to find peace in the world.
I agree. One of the movies should be about him going after the people who fucked his mind up for all those years and finding out it's all far more spread out than anyone knew.
I said that when the falcon and the winter soldier was announced
I mean... It felt like that is where it was going, didn't it? I had just presumed that was the plan. It felt intuitive!
And Bucky literally went from a character that I gave zero f***s about to someone that I was hopeful for and really felt had some depth... But now that's just thrown away and gone?
Weird and disappointing.
Nobody should be the new Cap. Anyone other than Steve is cringe. No Steve, no Cap. I don't give a shit how good it might have gone in the comics. Other characters adopting the costumes of heros is stupid and lazy. The only characters that this works for is Green Lantern because the costume isn't tied to the person, it's a uniform.
@@PanzerblitzRnR Thank for saying this it's the most laziest idea that's riddled all through comics these days and of course marvel studios isn't taking inspiration from the older comics but the new ones with their political agenda.
FYI, sorry I'm coming across so loud in this clip. My audio balance was off during the stream. Tried to correct it in editing with limited success.
it'll be fine.
I'm sure people are fine with it. It's YOUR channel.
Nah it'll be fine
I thought your coolness was fine. Your friends were a little low in my opinion.
Just blame it on the booze. It'll be fine.
…not that Mark Ruffalo is upset at all about his character being totally emasculated.
No doubt Mark Ruffalo like a bit of pegging in his life too.
He probably is insisting they bitch up his Hulk more and loves having a women take his place
He's not the Hulk, he's the Gogart version of Hulk.
He’s as woke as they come. So even if he internally hates his own choices, the twitter brownie points he gets for his woke flexes are too precious to pass up
Mark Rufallo doesn't give a damn about his "lost mascinity" because he never had any to begin with. This is the dude who mourned the death of a paedophile in RL on social media for woke points.
Those “narcissists and adult orphans” are the reason she’s alive and well instead of being killed by Thanos and his army.
But expecting a woman to show gratitude to a man in this day and age is simply unreasonable.
Not all women are like. In my experience, not even the majority are.
"narcissists and adult orphans" so is being a lawyer She Hulk.
Lies! I see noting unreasonable about a woman showing gratitude to a man. That is only what the activists who get offended by everything want to think.
@@adamkalb1 It shouldn’t be unreasonable, but try saying that to a feminist.
The Hulk has turned into the “Nutty Professor”
and he looks almost like Sherk as well
@@frankbalatbat1804 at least Shrek has done a lot more than Professor Sluck.
•He can fight knights in full armor with ease.
•He has canonically lifted a big potion cup that had to weight 1,800 tons in a upward lifting motion.
•He can run faster than a cheetah and most automobiles while carrying two people.
•Masculinity incarnate and based.
•Surprisingly agile for a big ogre in his late 30s or something.
They literally turned him into their version of Hank McCoy/The Beast, except Hank McCoy did it MUCH better, and Bruce Banner/The Hulk was better as just as HOW HE WAS.
Stebastian Stan really got screwed over. It's clear his character arc was prepping his character to be the new Cap. He'll never get to take the mantle now.
Marvel cucked Bucky. At this point I wouldn't want him to take that tainted shield. "You need to do better.." Christ alive.
The absolute ten tonne of foreshadowing every other movie about him with the shield just for them to give into identity politics as it began to seep into modern movies from 2016 onwards which saw them immediately 180 at the last second and give Sam the shield. Just bizarre. A real disservice to the character, his legacy in the MCU and the comics, the actor and his legacy in the MCU. I'm just terrified he'll now be relegated to 'joint lead' or 'supporting character' exclusively in Falcon Cap movies when he should have been the next Cap and found true redemption.
Yeah he didn’t even get to punch anything with that brand new shiny Vibranium arm in Infinity War and Endgame, Pissed me off.
Say they gave him the mantle in 5 years, he'd be the fourth cap holding no weight.
@@sippinlosses They really screwed him over. He deserved better. Definitely shouldn't come back to Marvel. His post Civil War work is fantastic. Check out The Last Full Measure and Fresh.
Bruce Banner used to have the undercurrent of anger at being one (if not the) smartest man in the room, but perpetually forced to bow & scrape to people who were an order of magnitude dumber than him just to get money for his research.
His attitude through most of the original Avengers movie has that edge of condescension - Black Widow is dumb for thinking he's falling for her lies, SHIELD is dumb for trying to bring him in, SHIELD is dumb for putting him on the Helicarrier.
Good points!!
Of course he was condescending in the movies, look at who plays him. That’s just how Ruffalo is
Right? That intensity and unsettled nature of Ruffalo's Banner sitting right under the surface at all times in Avengers 1 was awesome. This was a man who's realised that his version of a happy medium, his norm, amounts to him suffering an existence where he's perpetually at the end of his tether. That's what he has to endure, the weight on his shoulders, given that he is one big ticking time bomb. He had to make peace with that part of him, cruel and unjust as he rightly finds it.
But the later movies (looking at you Ragnarok) did a brutal 180 on that side of him and made him 'generic Marvel goof #8' just like Thor and similarly nerfed him for good measure to complete that image. Hauntingly disappointing that the awesome warrior Hulk personality from Ragnarok was killed off in Endgame and replaced with The Credible Hulk which amounts to a wussier version of Bruce (who cringes at getting angry and needs saving by fucking Giant Man) parading in a big green Hulk skin since the actual Hulk and any of the elements he brought to the table are nowhere to be seen.
Heroes are people who are brave, willing to sacrifice their lives, bold, and have went through pain and suffering to get where they are. That defines a hero. Someone who holds on to a powerful belief and let's it define them. Men and women included, why are they seperating them?
They don’t understand or even know the basic concept of the Übermensch. People with zero life experiences are writing for these big budget flicks and that’s why all the characters have become so unapt.
The old school writers were either war veterans or people who experienced a nuclear family working class background or had other jobs before coming into the industry.
Meanwhile modern Marvel and DC heroes.
- Superman: being so reckless that he dropped a ship into a center of the city, killing thousands. Went mad and killed billions of people because Lois died.
- Batman: marking on criminals just so that those criminals could be killed in prison later on. Shooting people for fun.
- Wonder Woman: rap3d a guy.
- Scarlet Witch: enslaving almost 4,000 civilians for weeks, massacring thousands of people, including the heroes like Professor X, Mr Fantastic, Blackbolt, Captain Marvel and Captain Carter.
- Valkyrie: selling countless innocent slaves to death for money.
- Yelena Belova: mass murdering prison inmates and prison workers with a smile on her face.
- Melina: human trafficking and committing experiment on so many children.
- Doctor Strange: made a guy punch himself in repeat so that America didn’t have to pay for a stolen food.
The problem is "the message " wants to pander and alledge the idea that Brave,sacrifice,bold and going through pain and suffering is base condition and life of all Whamennsss hence it's obvious they are all heros and don't need anything to justify it than that they were born with no peepee which is the biggest disadvantage ever
@@nont18411 this is depressing
I didn’t realize Princess Fiona was having her own TV show?
Might watch that.
Can't wait to see who's playing Donkey!!!
@Veer Shanky LMAO
If you look at the earlier Marvel films, phase 1, they just have a different tone. They treat the characters with respect, depth and seriousness. There were some jokes and silliness too, but there was quality there. These latest ventures come across too silly for my liking.
As a big Hulk fan, they still haven’t shown the true power of Hulk and he should have had redemption against Thanos. And speaking of series, it would have been cool seeing a Hulk series where we could see him in his different transformations, like Joe Fixit.
Was Marvel Phase 1 done by Marvel on its own or had Disney already bought them?
@@goaltndr Marvel made two films themselves Iron Man and The Hulk. After that I believe Marvel sold the rights to Disney.
@Greg Elchert I couldn't remember but that sound right. The sale was in the process as the last Marvel Films were being made.
My biggest gripe about Endgame is they handed Banner a happy ending on a silver platter. I get that the movie is 2 1/2 hours and couldn't show everything. But they were just starting to establish Hulk as his own character, beyond "the tornado that happens when Banner loses it." This brand-new person, just starting his own stories, conflicts, and growth, was wiped away in an instant with a throwaway line. Basically Disney murdered a child because "Credible Hulk is funny." The only thought that gives me a shred of hope for Banner/Hulk stories now is that he has seemingly been totally cured in the past, the powerful body and the powerful mind together with no conflict -- but it never, ever lasts. Knowing the current trend, all we'll get from this point forward will be an occasional Credible Hulk cameo.
@@Merchant1521 and that was when it all went downhill.
Thor is one of the most abused characters in multiple media. In comics he's been killed off and brought back, had his genetic code abused by his "friends" had his kingdom destroyed, had his name stolen, his arm chopped off, be deemed "unworthy", etc etc.. in the movies he's been banished, seen his family killed, lost his kingdom, lost his pride, been turned into a "jokey" character because no one has the balls to tell Hemsworth he's not as funny as he thinks he is. At this point he'd probably welcome the world serpent, gladly.
I'm not a big fan of marvel, but I thought he was funny as Thor.
Agreed.
Both Thor and Spider-Man (Peter Parker).
Peter got ruined multiple times in the comic. He never got to be an adult. His company got bankrupt. His marriage got destroyed constantly because the writers keep using the excuse that “Peter has to be miserable all the time because with great power comes great responsibility.”
Peter never grew as a character because of this shitty excuse. I don’t think it’s because responsibility. I think it’s because Marvel wants to make Miles Morales a better and cooler Spider-Man. Hell, just look at Miles additional power. Invisibility and lightning tasing. Peter never have these privileges.
You had me until you made it about the actor. I've yet to have any issues with any of Thor's jokes. Fat Thor was a shame but there were some funny jokes from that. All the clips I see of Chris I think he has very good charisma and can be quite funny.
Yeah no. Chris is funny.
I think Drinker would be able to write an amazing script for a Bucky movie or even show where he slowly redeems himself to finally pick up the shield.
Why does he have to redeem himself for deeds HE hasn't committed?
@@darthkek1953 He at least has to achieve a public redemption, because of all the shit that... was done using his body. It would be difficult for the ublic to accept and support Hydra's best assassin (which is essentially how he was viewed) as Steve's successor.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t if it's just for the in-team superhero role, Bucky > Falcon. For the in-world USA promotional aspect of him, Falcon > Bucky. So we can eat our cake and have it too: Bucky is to us the real and connected spiritual successor to Captain, but in-universe it makes total sense for Shield/Sword/whoever runs the show now to pick Falcon; partly because pro-minority token racism is a real thing, and even if Falcon was white at least he isn't tarnished by Bucky's brainwashed Black Ops past.
It's hysterical because Bucky is a million times more interesting and open to stories and interactions than Sam but they jumped straight past Bucky for him even though Bucky has such a better story during his Captain America days and, in the MCU, was foreshadowed so much as being Captain America yet after the boost in identity politics and woke writing in movies post 2016 they quickly 'subverted' towards Falcon Cap. Everyone just brings up the 'Oh, Captain America didn't die in the MCU and Bucky would be a bad look for Captain America because in the MCU the world knows his crimes' but they forget how in the comics Bucky actually had a trial for his crimes which could have been done but instead they just waved it away with a 'the president pardoned him'. Anthony Mackie is a phenomenal actor and, while I'd still put Sebastian beyond him for range, it's at least nice seeing him in a bigger role.
But I really hate how Bucky is dangerously at risk of being relegated, with an iron grip, to 'joint lead or supporting character' who is exclusively featured in Captain America movies where he isn't Cap because the MCU will double down only on the 'buddy cop dynamic' between him and Sam, shafting him out of so many great moments he could be set up for. He has ties to HYDRA, he has ties to Wakanda, he has ties to Sam. One scene I'd always wanted to see was when newer heroes pay respect to Bucky for his service in World War 2 like in the comics. I was hoping they'd show that in Civil War since Bucky was the crux of it but he just kind of got attacked and hunted the entire movie with no interaction bar with Cap or the people hunting him like T'Challa and Tony. He's a character they could do so much with and yet it really does seem like they're about to box him into 'the backup for Sam's Cap' and that's an utter disservice to the character, his legacy in the MCU, his legacy in the comics and Sebastian as an actor. And it's strange because, I know this is anecdotal, but when I speak to people who just watch the MCU for fun and don't too heavily follow it or see videos of the MCU online, so many people share the opinion that Bucky is an awesome character they'd wish to see more of. Yet, as I say, he's all but now been slotted into a supporting role post FATWS. How they quickly did away with his arc ending that had been building since episode 1 said a lot. I pray I'm wrong as Bucky and Sebastian deserve better and so do we as audience members.
@@darthkek1953 It's not because he committed to the horrible crimes he did while being mind-controlled but because he remembered all the things and was unable to stop it. This is called trauma and probably even haunts his dreams. Being finally able to to do something for the greater good can bring closure and possible redemption. Just think about a driver who accidentally kills a drunk pedestrian or a suddenly a child jumps onto the street and you can't break fast enough. Even while not being your fault it will have a severe affect on your life forward. And when you get the opportunity to actively do something or to help it might aid the healing process.
If you think about it, Thor shouldn't have gone through his depression drinking fat phase since Valkyrie (take away the fat) went through the same kind of depression after Hala killed the rest of the Valkyrie guard.
Her word in Thor 3 "I've spent years in a haze trying to forget my past. Sakaar seemed like the best place to drink, forget, and die" Good to know she just sat around watching Thor go through that.
Perhaps Thor drank more and was more effected.
She never had emotional connection with Thor
Well, they had to nerf Thor as much as possible and they had to tried the hardest to make us forget that Valkyrie is a slaver.
@@nont18411 Oh, yeah I forgot about that.
She's a brave warrior, that was able to beat Thor and turn hulk into a teddy bear
Thor peaked in Infinity War, that version should have been the definitive endpoint of his character growth following that film.
Soldier of Fortune, Neutron Star bathing, never wavering, Thor was the Thor of my childhood. Fat, ridiculed, panic attack, weepy, constantly giving up, extremely nerfed, useless Thor was the Thor of my nightmares.
"It's a line only a milennial can come up with." As a milennial myself, I completely agree. I fucking hate my own generation ...
Preach
If you don't mind how old are you? Milennials are in their 30's/40's. We are not the younger generation
@@John231984 I'm in my 30's. I never said milennials were young. I just said that I hated my own generation.
And social media has ruined mine by amplifying the worst of my generation z
I knew something was wrong when Sam got the shield. Bucky is so underused and he was neglected in his own show. He’s one of my favorites and he has nowhere to go now as a character
Yeah, it's a shame. I would like to see Bucky truly redeem himself and get the chance to be seen as a hero in people's eyes, and grow out of Steve's shadow.
I couldn't agree more.
They're not going to use him properly. I hope Sebastian Stan's contract is up, so he can be free from this dumpster fire.
I never agreed with Steve's decision to hand the shield over to Sam. We never got much of Sam being Falcon and Bucky never got a chance to be a hero.
The idea of Sam getting the shield doesn't bother me. Heck, give him the red, white and blue makeover for all I care, but he should've always remained Falcon ir at least some other reminiscent name that sounds more "patriotic." The very idea of calling him Captain America forever forces him under the shadow of Steve Rogers when he was perfectly interesting as his own man. Bucky should get the opportunity to carry the shield imo, but I guess they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Sam and Buck were bouncing the shield back and forth between them, so it kinda feels like even though Sam's "it," they both kinda have joint custody.
Gundam just had the best line and it was a throwaway and no one heard it. "Wanda is like ChrisChan with powers"
Nah i would say she's more like that Isabella Loretta Janke
Which timestamp?
There's a beautiful piece of commentary on the track for the 2012 Avengers. Whedon talks about being interviewed during the scene where Cap says "There's only one God mam and he doesn't dress like that."
Someone asked Josh why he would write that when he is an atheist. Josh responds "because I'm an atheists but Steve Rogers is not."
And that's the difference between a good writer, and a Disney writer.
I’m really enjoying these highlights from the various streams. I don’t have time to listen to them in their entirety so this is much appreciated.
Same
Same^2
Yerp same
Same here!
Sure you do. It’s all a matter of choice. I listen to recorded streams in video form all the time, but because of time constraints, it often takes me days to listen to one in pieces. I’m okay with that.
An episode of EFAP though? That can take a week if I’m unlucky.
Hulk- a complicated, damaged and interesting character. Forced to live on the fringe of society or be a threat to society itself.
(His introduction into Avengers was perfect imo)
She-Hulk- gets everything for free and no effort, lives a normal life and is a public figure.
Remember when alan grant put the living fear of God into a kid for dissing a raptor that had been dead for 65 million years. We need a scene like that in the mcu with this new privileged cast.
Wanda's shitty arc, through "Wandavision" and the incorrectly labeled Strange movie, is a feeble, misguided attempt at the House of M storyline. The people in charge of these properties are incapable of adapting them. They have no skill to speak of, and don't understand the source material.
What upsets me the most is the apologist masses that perpetuate this poor handling. As long as the vapid masses continue to celebrate every cameo and ooh-and-ah at all the colorful, shiny bullshit, Disney won't be pressured to make good adaptations of the properties we love.
It’s gonna take a lot more than cameos and colors to entertain me these days.
Kingpin ripping a hole through the universes to get his "family" is bad but Wanda doing it is treated sympathetically... Hollywood logic at its best.
Didn't even Steve Rogers in a comic panel wanted Bucky to be the next captain America in which Rogers was gladly handing the shield to him? I remember Bucky as captain America made more sells than when sam Wilson as captain America
Yeah, i was surprised that Captain's best friend who he's known for 90 years, who fought hydra, who had undergone the same enhancement procedure, who was the one protecting Cap before he became strong, did not get the shield from Cap.
I guess Falcon was a diversity hire.
@@mushypork2132 I can accept Falcon as Cap for once, but why tf would Steve leave Bucky alone on this planet he is not familiar with even after saying "till the end of the road" or whatever that dialogue was a million times!?
The funniest thing with them making Falcon Capt. America is that he's JUST a dude. He's in great shape but he's just a guy. Nothing really that special about him outside of his fancy government made wings. They even had the chance in his own show for them to get him some super serum which would have at a bare minimum given him the physical ability to be Cap AND if he could take it and still be a good man also show him to be a worthy successor. It's crazy to me how badly they wrote that whole thing. There was the chance to do it correctly RIGHT THERE and they just went "Nah let's just leave him as a normal buff guy who would get his ass kicked mercilessly by every other MCU character." Fucking ANTMAN made him look foolish and he's just some guy.
Dude yes!!!! I been thinking that too. Like he’s not even an army ranger, or Navy Seal, or hell even MarSoc, just ex army with the falcon wings. He could get his ass beat in a snap 🫰
I hope you did not miss the fact that everyone who took the super soldier serum, except for steve rodgers went at least partially insane. You can see the effect it had on the russian super soldiers, on the old black guy, on Walker and on Bucky, and on the flagsmashers. And it had the same effect on Blonsky in the Hulk movie.
@@impudentdomain Uh huh... It enhances even your character flaws. So to be a worth successor to Cap you'd have to be able to take it and remain a good man.
The Hulk was always my favorite Marvel character. I hate what the MCU has done to him.
In addition to what MauLer said about how entire theaters cheered when Cap said "Hulk...Smash!" I would add that I really long for the "good old days" when "We have a Hulk" actually meant something.
Its funny how the Hulk never gets a script that dives into his complex mental issues that come with his powers. One of the Hulk's greatest problems is his own mind. Yet, nobody even tries to understand or really help him. There are so many themes you could play with in a Hulk movie; the struggles of various mental illnesses, dealing with constant abuse, having a condition that socailly isolates you, finding happiness in a world that seems determined to blame you for all it's problems...etc. (Im sure Im missing a few).
Reguardless, there are a few arcs I was hoping the Hulk would go through. Planet Hulk was one of them, sure, but there are also a few from bits and bobs I seen brought up before that could benefit from being the subject of a movie. Bringing up the devil Hulk could be pretty cool; Bruce and the Hulk(s?) struggling to prevent a truly evil personality from rising to the surface from within while the world seems determined to put him down while already framing him as a devil...when they truly haven't seen what a devil hulk could do.
There was another arc in a cartoon featuring thor that brought up an interesting idea; What happens when you magically try to remove Bruce from the Hulk? Loki attempted to do that in order to mentally drive the Hulk around like a tank, finds out that the murderous rage was almost uncontrollable by anyone other than Bruce and both bad guys and good guys have to join forces to fuse them together again before the mindless Hulk straight up murders everyone. In the end, Thor helps Bruce understand that he is valuable and has heroic qualities, because he is essentually the Hulk's moral compass; what drives the Hulk to struggle against eternal anger and take heroic actions.
Anyway, the point is the Hulk can be in a good movie, but the writers would have to be very aware of what they could do with the struggles of the character. Having big CGI punch big CGI isnt really a story in itself, the Hulk and/or Bruce have to change or grow in some way and overcome an internal struggle or debate.
Both lefties and righties hate dealing with mental illness more than any other Diverse Group. It's the main reason I don't believe anyone when they say they're all about Diversity... sure, you are, when it just looks nice and doesn't have inconvenient behavior problems
I had a debate with a wanda stan. I told her that the "They'll never know what you sacrifice for them" line was TRASH and a massive contradiction of what she does in the show. She told me that it's all a matter of "Perspective" and that she suffered like other characters. I thought it was a solid argument, until I realized that it makes 0 sense at all. Even If you look at it from her "perspective", she's STILL a villain who tried to enslave people and tried to murder these people. Also, lemme ask you this; WHAT DID SHE SACRIFICE!? Yeah she sacrificed vision, but it meant nothing. She sacrificed her kids, except that THEY AREN'T REAL!!!! If wanda REALLY wanted her (fake) kids so badly, instead of invading the multiverse, WHY couldn't she just create another HEX and have her bring Back her kids, and VISION but this time in another location where NOBODY is around, especially consideringshe got a "power upgrade" from the dark hold? Why didn't the United nations plant a target on wanda since she committed a WAR CRIME and didn't turn herself in order to redeem herself?
You miss the point. Wanda always had one overlying motivation is family. The Twin boys are REAL to Wanda and if someone will go up to her say they ain't. It is not going end well because Wanda is clinically off her proverbial rocker and literally can telepathically change her mind. Wanda Hex power from the show was flawed and the time she didn't have prefect control over it. Meaning unless things were maintained by Wanda directly it starts to fall apart. The further you get away from the epicenter more robotic the West View becomes. Wanda did suffer she lost her Twin brother Pietro and experienced his death. Saw the love of her life die twice in front of her. Lost every member of her family to death. When people are delusional are the delusions are any less real to them. The Psychologist has to get the person to admit that the delusions aren't real. Billy and Tommy are real to Wanda because she wanted the Nuclear Family to focus on instead of her grief and being alone. As for the United States who on Earth can take on the Scarlett Witch. It's not like Wanda doesn't have Reality Warping abilities and control people minds and telekinesis. Theoretically she is on par Dr Strange. Declaring Wanda a War Criminal is one thing but doing something about is something else.
@@WhitneyAllisonGG solid point, and appreciate the pointing out the flaws of some of my points.
@@mozax8118 now if you attack the execution Wanda Vision and you will get no argument from me. Because it was horrible
Ok
I completely agree with you and Wanda should have had consequences for actions of enslaving an entire town she didn’t sacrifice anything no matter what anyone says those kids were not real and the only reason that makes sense to me in my head for why she doesn’t make another hex to create kids is because she needs the life force from people in the hex or something along those lines because it make zero sense why she doesn’t just create one without people and in my own head canon that’s the reason she doesn’t make another hex
Here's what i think that should've happened after Endgame:
1. resulting on the Avengers and Thanos messing with the Quantum realm, it stirred something on another dimension. This event sets in motion the appearance of the next main villain not revealed yet.
2. the remaining heroes would have according character development with respective sequels in 5 to 6 movies.
3. to fill the gap of Cap, Iron Man and Vision, two (for now) new heroes would emerge. Moon Knight and Iron Heart. No replacement of the original surviving heroes. Just bring in new ones and Iron Heart to develop Iron Man's story.
4. Introduce The Fantastic Four, introduce the future Doctor Doom but don't make him the main villain. In his experiences, Mr Fantastic opens a gateway into the Negative Zone.
5. The hinted villain after the events of Endgame makes his first appearance. Annihilus.
6. Second phase of movies with an Avengers movie fighting of Count Nefaria.
7. In the end of this movie The Fantastic Four arrives and together they defeat Nefaria. Avengers and F4 team up. Annihilus is on his way with a planet scaled invasion.
8. Next set of sequels where a few selected heroes go on asking for help. New GOTG and Captain Marvel sequels. The Nova Corps and Warlock are introduced.
9. Warlock and the Sentry origin stories.
10. Annihilus arrives and an epic battle trilogy of movies commence.
11. Annihilus is defeated, Doctor Doom picks up the Cosmic Control Rod and takes it to Latveria. Next phase main villain is set in motion.
Its funny how fans can come up with better content over these bafoons
Did this man just write up a better phase than an entire room of Hollywood credited nobodies 🤨?
Little kink in that plan is the fantastic four stuff. Since movies have to be in development around 2019 and the fox deal was still ongoing.
to fill the gap of Cap, Iron Man and Vision, two (for now) new heroes would emerge. Moon Knight and Iron Heart. No replacement of the original surviving heroes. Just bring in new ones and Iron Heart to develop Iron Man's story.
Can you explain it? No replacement but filling the gap. What's a difference? How would Iron Heart fill the gap and not replace him?
They could’ve just done the Lost approach and keep a bunch of loose ends open so there’s always a direction to go. Seems like they just closed every door, why not just reboot the whole franchise
At times it seems like the Hulk really only exists anymore for other characters to defeat so they can display how powerful they are.
Worf style.
The Jekyll and Hyde story of rage, fears, regret...now reboots to the Jolly green giant and Ally Mcbeal had a woke baby? Hard pass...
@@constancemiller3753 Haha! Perfect description.
He’s a jobber
I suspect now that he's smart he has much lower strength and power now.
They should have taken a 5 year break with the MCU, think about it and make people miss it.
5 years is a bit to long maybe a 2 year break would have sufficed
I’d be fine with nothing after end game. Come back in ten years with a good plan lol
the money machine has to keep spinning.
@@cf5341 or bleeding at this point doctor strange made money yay! That’s about it
After endgame
@Veer Shanky that’s a Sony movie..
This reminds me of a comment about Google and how it’s changed and become infested with woke ideology: “Those that currently work there could not have built what they stand upon”.
I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that The Hulk has been done dirty by "World War Hulk" and "Planet Hulk" being bastardized for other characters. I loved those stories and will now never get to see them on the big screen. I'm sure I'm not the only fan of a comic story who's dealt with a similar fate, and to all those people, I salute you.
and by mixing up hels backstory with Cul the serpent marvel managed to screw themselves out of fear itslef which would bhave made a much better phase 4 arc than whatever they're working up to now.
The best part of MCU Phase 1 was how well the characters were treated and presented, culminating in the Avengers which was a love letter to the Marvel heroes. Now, in Phase Whatever, the shows and movies feel more like a mocking parody. Kind of like how Warner Bros. was embarrassed by the D.C. heroes and couldn't present them in a respectful manner.
Gone are the days of the first Avengers.
The avengers is one of those movies that seems to get better the more you watch it. I remember when it first came out people branded it as dumb fun. But the movie has some really great, subtle character moments that you don't really pickup on your first watch, like with that Hulk and black widow scene. Even the quips and the humor felt more like workplace humor and the characters trying to ease the tension of the whole situation. But you could see that they were breaking under the pressure and trying to do their best with what they have. But I guess the studios got the wrong idea from it because now every mcu movie needs to have stupid jokes and quips at inappropriate times. The avengers set up great character moments and stories for the future only for all the potential to be completely squandered.
@@saisameer8771 That movie really is Lightning in a bottle.
Wanda should have been arrested for what she did and she should have accepted it and gone willingly to prison/and or made deals with the government to work off her punishment. Any resistance or attempt to flee/escape would brand her even more of a villain. She's already a villain in my mind though, she did what she did and seems unapologetic about it.
Eh, she seemed mildly regretful, but at least the Dr. Strange movie had the good sense to lean into the fact that Wandavision made her a psycho villain. Apparently Olsen's contract is up, so I guess she also really did choose to off herself in the end for everything she did.
@@Tyler_W I think she actually signed a new 7 year contract
Only male villains and heroes have expiring contracts in the M-SHE-U
This reminds me of a really bad She Hulk story where she's angry at Bruce for not understanding how hard her life is and she's thinking about how much she wants to punch him
And you're just sitting there hating her more and more as she continues talking because Bruce is someone whose entire existence is hardship
There's a whole military task force that exists just because of him
he wakes up half-naked in deserts not knowing how he got there or who he hurt along the way
He's always homeless and or alone because one of the most Primal and natural emotions any sentient organism is capable of can turn him into a literal monster that will destroy indiscriminately
That's why the original She-Hulk was always understanding of her cousins situation and extra patient with him especially when he was the Hulk
Sure she wasn't nearly as strong as him but she also still got to be herself if anything she just became more attractive and confident and she knew how much better her situation was than her cousins
Perfect observation.
Phase 1 makes you feel like your watching a serious but fun comic book movie that makes you feel like a kid admiring these superheroes.
Yes, agreed. I always thought handing the shield to Bucky was the obvious choice. It would have filled out his character arc beautifully, but no, of course not. Silly me.
Nah man, you were applying too much of a clear through line. Too much logic. You've got to instead do a 180 turnaround from where you're foreshadowing your audience for 8 long years and course correct to pander the woke crowd. That's how you do it (at least according to how the MCU shafted Bucky).
I don't mind Sam as Cap in principle, coz morals wise and mentality wise, he is just as selfless and brave as Steve is. The issue is he needs to be a super soldier for it to make sense, also he should have never sided with terrorists that kill people to make a point. If they gave him the serum at some point in the series and didn't subvert his values that would have fixed most of the issues i had.
I get concerned that people are starting to get reactionary when they see a PoC or woman just existing on screen in a trailer or something and write off the media in question as 'woke' before giving it a chance. I don't like being preached to either and I agree that extreme leftist ideology is just as dangerous as extreme right ideology. I just want there to be some level of open-mindedness. Arcane proved that a diverse show can done right in capable hands, so it's not an impossible goal.
The part where thor comes into wakanda and says give me thanos and you see the sky go dark was the best thor intro into a scene
The MCU needs a rest. Not because there aren't thousands of good stories to be adapted, because the twidiot fumblebucks in charge are rushing to one up endgame as if these were all direct sequels to each other. And because they have to inject their barely understood "takes" on already questionable idiotologies into their shart.
We need a big name star/director or two to just say nah, not doing that to the story/character so studios get the message, box office won't help. Heard it from the target demographics mouth the other day, yh 90% of movies are shite but its something to do.
That being said.... those numbers will continue to fall if this content without content makes the sheeple content mindset does not budge.
So long as they havent milked EVERY penny they can out of the franchise it wont stop
@@erwannthietart3602 That's the point, it's supposed to be every penny they can. By not making good media they specifically aren't doing that. Most big companies aren't. Aside from reeking of short term thinking, I mean we are already seeing the content stratagem failing. Subs to vod are declining, cinema attendance after being artificially stunted remains down (unless your movie is Spiderman, which would have seen similar numbers if it were not objectively not twidiot crap, we have Strange proof of this) in theory and in past example that should not happen as long as there is good reliable content. Then there's the studio/vod response to this, adding ads, cracking down on password sharing, even more tier complications.
The customer, not the content is at fault. None of this will increase profit long term, the second the Netflix bill goes up again, again above the yearly increase people will ask what am I paying for? Amazon are relatively safe, as long as the next day deliveries hold the vod element hostage. That being said next day delivery is not exactly an Amazon exclusive.
I have a Netflix sub, my family use it way more than I do. If all of a sudden that price goes up due to password sharing etc why would I keep it. My family will not get subs of their own so lost revenue. It also pretty much invalidates the tier system. Why do I need to be able to stream on five devices otherwise? So all the kids can watch something different? They all watch CZcams, even toddler content can be found there for free. The reason the subs remained constant or raised was because of convenience, nothing more.
So how/why should this motivate movie studios to create better content without twidiotology? Long term profit, I have physical, digital, physical and digital again copies of multiple movies. I have seen some movies at the cinema multiple times.
I have not bothered with the cinema since no way home... For new movies, I still go to watch classics that pop up, I have seen The Shining and Batman over ten times each on the big screen. Admittedly I know that's not the majority of people's movie going/owning habits. It is at least indicative and I'm not alone to one extent or another. Long term vs short term.
It’s such bullshit what Disney is doing to these stories. Its like killing the golden goose of star wars and marvel just to get the next egg. i hope they go all the way down for the way they disrespect the past work like there is anything to offer, basically just book burners tainting good stories from better entertainers.
It would be very interesting to hear a candid interview with the actors who’s characters have been destroyed once they are free from their contracts.
Your mission Drinker, should you choose to accept it…
The next mission impossible movie is the only thing I am excited for.
When it comes to Falcon and Winter Soldier, Morgan Freeman said it best…..”racism exists because we keep talking about it” that show could’ve been great even though Bucky should’ve gotten the shield but they made it all about race.
Sounds like what Disney did to legacy Star Wars characters eh?
🤔Hmm... I don't know... I think I'll spend my life savings to watch them destroy ANOTHER FRANCHISE before I make up my mind.
They sort of built up these characters in the first place. But it does ring an eerily similar note. Get woke go broke.
I went looking for this very comment because that's exactly what crossed my mind based on the title alone.
Can we address the fact that Bruce is, for some reason, a willing participant in a procedure to duplicate what happened to him with another person, let alone a family member? What does she have on him to persuade such a reckless act, especially after Ultron and Wanda’s manipulation?
2:46 Not only that, but they literally foreshadowed Bucky getting the shield not once, but twice, in The Winter Soldier.
My impression from the trailer was not that he was afraid of her, he just didn’t want her to break the door of the chamber.
Yeah I thought that as well I don’t think he was ever worried about his own health
Drinker about Thor : ''You learned humility, you learned maturity, you learned restraint, you learned wisdom, you learned self-sacrifice through all your experiences. You are now equipped to be a leader. And now what are you gonna do? You're gonna abandon everything and go off and..find yourself? phuckoff...'' 100% agree. It's sad that Chris Hemsworth is gonna stick around to see them butcher Thor.
Although the movie will stink with the message, I see Thor as having lost everything, including himself with being "let's all laugh at, in a bad place needs help, Fat Thor."
He has experienced a lot what made him tired of it, that's why he wants to leave/retire because it is too much for him. He lost everything and everyone. 1500 years of fighting. He has a mid-life crisis. I am sorry you just want to see a big madafaka who kills everyone for fun again and again :P
@@dsmyify If they kill him off, I simply won't care. Thor's character is ruined beyond belief. The only way to truly restore him is for him to kill Gorr without any outside interference, go and tell Valkyrie that she's a piece of shit slaver who doesn't deserve to rule Asgard, tell Jane to fuck off and that he doesn't need her anymore, tell the Guardians to fuck off since he's a God and has no business being with mortals, rightfully reclaim his throne and rebuild Asgard on a far, distant planet where he will rule as a wise and mature King.
I don't have a problem with Falcon becoming the new Captain America, it makes sense in the MCU. What caught me off guard was the whole "You're black, you can't be Captain America" angle they were going with. They made it seem like people only looked up to CA because he was a specific color, instead of the principles and feats that made up the man. It could have been a story of Falcon slowly growing as he tries to fill the shoes that Cap left behind, but instead it was just about him being too dark and some lame rebels.
The drinker’s books are actually really good. I’d honestly love to see him write a movie for the Hulk or Batman or one of the many heroes with darker elements. Would be so dope.
Cap: [hands shield to Falcon]
Falcon: What is this? Operation "Use The Darkies As A Shield"?
(South Park Movie reference for those who don't get it)
i laughed so hard at this, LMAO I watched that movie too young
Okay everyone tell me if you agree with this:
Hulk is the most wasted and destroyed character in the MCU, and Endgame was the final Nail in the Coffin. I am willing to bet everyone who watched Endgame, was waiting the entire movie to see the Hulk Rematch Thanos. This was the most set up thing in the entire series, Infinity war laid the groundwork for what would ultimately be the most satisfying, and defining moment for both the Hulk, and the franchise as a whole. The stage was set, everyone in the theater was ready, we were all waiting. The Incredible Hulk, Going toe to toe with Thanos for a second time, this time to settle the score. Two Juggernauts, trading Punches and Blows, a battle of the Strongest.
Seeing this alone would have made the entire movie. So we watched, and when the time came to see all the original main series Avengers Face off against Thanos in that Final Climactic Battle, we were on the edge of our seats. This was it. First Cap grabs Mjolnir, the crowd erupts! Then he smashes Thanos while Iron Man Comes in for the follow up! Then Thor Flies in with this Storm breaker and the crowd is going wild!!! This was it!!! First Cap, Then Iron Man, Then Thor, and now The Incredible Hulk was going to Smash In!!! Right Here we were ready to see These two Titans of Strength square off in this very moment!!!
And yet.... It never happened, the Hulk pretty much never showed up again. And that's how the story ends. Hulk Fans leave the theaters in shambles, utterly broken and defeated.
Absolutely spot on!!!!!!!!!!
Not to mention that they kinda forgot to wrap up Tony’s character arc with Bucky.
These two never reconciled and since Tony was already gone, Bucky will live with this guilt forever.
That even would’ve made Lou Ferrigno proud.
@@nont18411 I like that they never got a chance to reconcile. Sometimes with superhero movies it seems like everything is too tidily resolved in the end, like these characters go through horrible things and do horrible things and it just rolls off of them. Not having the chance to reconcile with the man whose parents you killed because just when he has a family of his own he sacrifices everything to save the world could be a powerful force in the development of Bucky. There are a lot of ways grief and regret could shape Bucky’s character and actions.
@@TGuard00014 But it doesn’t fulfill Bucky’s redemption arc and Tony’s character arc.
Tony forgiving Bucky would be a great way to show that he’s a true hero. He’s willing to give up his anger on Bucky so that both of them could save the universe together and he could lift the guilt out of Bucky’s mind. How beautiful would that be?
You already know this is what the MCU is going forward. Disney’s motto is “(not) sorry, there’s profit to be had,” and they’re gonna milk that Marvel cow’s teet until there’s nothing but a little flag that pops out and says “bang!” We’re in the diminishing return phase of a popular trend and Hollywood has found their next victim: video game movie adaptations.
Interesting. It appears as far as video games are concerned that it’s a similar franchise formula with endless Call of Duty or Battlefield sequels and prequels being pumped out.
@@KaosNova2 the indie scene, in both movies and games, is what is actually generating new content.
@@Revz8bit I know Indie Games exist, and I play them too, but Om pretty sure most revenue is from franchise games, but thankfully it appears that it’s easier for me to find a good indie game than to find an Indie film in theaters.
“Yeah, so I went through all this life threatening procedure to get superpowers … and I do not want to use them, because using superpowers for something else than having a huge ass and finally banging cool guys is just for narcissist…” how noble and witty
It definitely would have made better sense to have Bucky reach out to Isaiah Bradley to make amends and get the info that way. After becoming the new Cap and coming back per their agreement to train Isaiah’s grandson to help repair his legacy of betrayal from the government.
Every time I watch one of these videos, I realize how inadequate a simple "thumbs up" really is. Beautifully said by all of you. I wish we were all in a bar so I could buy a round for the group!
I don't think Hulk was afraid of her in that scene. I think he just didn't want her breaking his stuff. But overall I agree. This is going to be character assassination. They're gonna knock Hulk down in order to prop her up. She's immediately going to be better than him at everything for no reason other than Girl Power.
She-Hulk: "Superheroes are billionaires and narcissistics."
Fans: "Then why the hell are you a superheroine!!?"
I would LOVE for Drinker and Mauler to become the creative directors for a rebooted MCU. That would be amazing. And could never happen today.
That joke where hulk goes “yes yes yes no no no” is about her destroying the lab and all the expensive tech…he’s not scared of her at all.
Im at the point with the MCU where I am with Star Wars. I have realized I am far more of an authority of what the MCU is and isn't than the people currently running the show. So I will decide what is and isn't MCU. It's rather obvious. Just like with Star Wars. Anything that fails to capture the essence of what these are and have always been about is non canon. It's that simple.
I keep it simple with Star Wars and consider anything made under Disney as non-cannon.
It's easiest just to abandon everything Hollywood in general.
For me, all of the MCU films from Iron Man to Avengers: Endgame (skipping Captain Marvel) are the equivalent to watching Star Wars’ movies from The Phantom Menace to Return of the Jedi. After those installments, both respective franchises have adequate closure to their main storylines, and I consider everything else to be optional add-ons.
Regarding any add-ons to the MCU and Star Wars which I did enjoy, I will include them as part of my experience. For the MCU, I personally would also include content like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, the Tom Holland Spider-Man sequels, and Shang-Chi (mainly because I finally got the payoff of seeing an MCU’s Mandarin portrayal I liked). For Star Wars, that would be the 2D Clone Wars micro-series, the 3D Clone Wars series, Rogue One, and Seasons 1+2 of The Mandalorian.
As for everything else, I either have not seen them or simply reject them, like the Star Wars sequels.
My view is I choose when to care or spend money. Honestly Hollywood has my thanks for helping me save plenty of money and using that saved money to have a hobby.
Exactly! That is why Captain Marvel and everything after Endgame is not cannon. Yes, even No Way Home. I liked the movie, but let's keep it real, Toby, Andrew, and Willem were the ones that carried that movie. It feels more like Spider-Man 4 instead of an MCU film.
I was born in 1966 and grew up with comics. What I really dislike is how these are altered, or comic book heroes growing old and dying. I don't read comics for the "realism". I experience enough realism in reality. If they want to tell new stories in the comic world, they are welcome to think up NEW heroes. But what was special about the old comics was that they reliably stayed the same. Just like I don't need a new interpretation of James Bond either. They should come up with a new agent story instead of twisting and distorting the old one. But that would really require creativity instead of reheating the old coffee.
The fact that they never changed is one of the major issues that keeps superheroes as basement tier mythological material.
People altering them for nefarious purposes, if only just to make money is bad, but they didn't have far to fall.
This panel was on fire. I could watch you four every day.
Thor and Hulk definitely got the short straw. Their characters aren't treated with respect anymore. One has witnessed everything he loves being torn from him and the other can't even trust his own mind. I don't think people realize how traumatizing it would be for a person to live with a constant rage monster in their head -- Bruce can't trust himself to express his emotions in a healthy way, his social life is effectively dead, and he has to constantly be aware of things that could possibly trigger him. I found his character in the first Avengers movie to be extremely fascinating. Mark Ruffalo did a brilliant job of portraying an intelligent, seemingly harmless man whose nervous energy reveals something much darker warring beneath the surface. Turning Hulk into a joke is like turning someone who is suffering from schizophrenia or severe bipolar disorder into a joke. Turning Thor into a joke is like turning a alcoholic war veteran struggling with depression and PTSD into a joke. This isn't just insensitive, it can be harmful. In this instance, making them into a joke is the same as saying that these characters don't matter, and because they don't matter, neither do their problems. Either don't include these issues at all or treat them with the respect they deserve and give the audience the engaging, empathetic character arcs they want to see.
Both of their stories are a lot darker than Wanda's, yet now, both are treated as jokes. lol
To the MCU writers, the only sympathetic characters are grieving women, not a man who's literally a ticking time bomb. And yet, none of these characters have the luxury of reality-warping powers to change their lives. If they had, they will just simply use them to fix themselves, not harm others.
As a very old man I remember when Marvel changed the comic world. Fantastic Four, Spider Man, Iron Man, Hulk etc, all different, but all in some way flawed real people as well as super heros. They weren't copies they were all originals, they weren't perfect, some even found themselves unloved and unpopular instead of hailed as heros. The problem now is that they (i cant call them creators, they dont create anything) cannot accept that a female hero can be flawed, and seem unable to create anything original. We can agree 70's hero's were "a bit" over represented by men, but the solution is to create female heros just as unique as those "toxic" male heros.
Who deserves to have the shield more:
Caps long time best friend from his childhood, had a major role in two films and had a good character arc
Or
Some guy cap met on a jog who was there as a side character in every film he was in
The Drinker, Gary, Mauler AND Gundam?! What an absolutely primo lineup! 🤌🏻
I love your short videos and always get excited to listen to your takes. Please keep it coming
"Hulk, smash" was perhaps the best line in Avengers.
How can Jane Foster be Thor when Thor is literally his name?
Odin-"Whosoever holds this hammer if they be worthy shall possess the power of Thor."
Jane Foster being worthy and holding Mjolnir transforms her into Lady Thor.
By that logic both Vision and Cap are now “Thor”. Having the power of Thor and BEING Thor are two different things.
@@sparkmaker9638 Yes, briefly, they were both Thor, too.
@@leslauner5062 I worship Thor, it's offensive to me, I'm gonna report you
@@leslauner5062 They aren't calling her "Lady Thor" she's Thor.
Only explanation for why Disney can't make a good dramatic MCU film starring the big characters like Hulk.
Took Sony Pictures actually calling the shots to make the most serious dramatic epic solo film in the entire series.
Because SONY has an impeccable record in successful serious dramatic superhero films: Amazing Spiderman, Venoms, Morbius, etc.? Now let's look at the of 2008 superhero movies with their costs & returns.
- Iron Man (MAY) cost $140m took $590m
- Incredible Hulk (JUNE) cost $150m took $260m
- The Dark Knight (JULY) cost $180m took over $1b.
A film needs 2.5x budget to make a profit. Disney made money with Iron Man. Warner made money with Batman. SONY lost money on Incredible Hulk. But you expect Disney to give up a profitable, popular film to go for an unprofitable, niche audience?
What film are you referencing?
@@Arthas30000 He means Incredible Hulk with Eddy Norton.
@@darthkek1953 Gotcha. Ty
@@darthkek1953 Well actually I love that one too. Tim Roth's Abomination was terrifically underrated.
But Sony Pictures made Spiderman: No Way Home, the most serious dramatic MCU film in a long time.
I never even finished watching TFaTWS. I literally paused it when Sam was scolding the senators and just never went backto finish the show. I'm still upset they didnt make Bucky Captain America. Best Cap storylines are when Bucky is using each day to prove he isnt TWS.
Falcon being Cap doesnt make sense... he isnt super. SO how in the world is he throwing the shield the way he was? Honestly, I think they should kill Sam. Show how unprepared he was for the ever-evolving danger of the world. He's just a normal guy so he shouldnt be able to take anywhere near the same damage that Buck, Steve, and John could.
Sounds good
The MCU had a good run.
R.I.P.
Capt. would have never gave up the shield willingly. His main phrase throughout the MCU was "I can do this all day". They destroyed his ark by him abandoning his friend Bucky who desperately could have used Capts help being he is still a broken man and needs him now more than everw. Any rational person should assume if Thanos existed, there must be other great threats in the universe and don't even get me started on the state the world would be in after 3.5 billion people suddenly just reappeared.
Capt already showed several times he was willing to die for his friends and to save lives. His first movie he gave up the girl for this pursuit. Suddenly he abandons everything he stood for through a decade of films?
Steve Rogers send off was completely against his character.
agreed
Whatever happened to Cap's famous line to Bucky-
"I am going to be with you till the end of the line"
Yeah, let me abandon my friend in a world he doesn't understand for some girl I DEFINITELY should have gotten over by this point, let me just abandon this friend for whom I was willing to go up against Earth's best hero.
Captain had a good arc, but it got ruined in Endgame when he abandoned Bucky Barnes for a girl he should have gotten over by now. What a hero! WOW!! MCU turds are still going to lick Fiege's shaft like dumbfucks.
Exactly, the bucky quote is perfect. Also last I checked didn't Capt. Make out with her niece? You think that would signify that he's moved on.
Marvel is losing it. In my opinion, it all got worse after the snap. Although end game as Amazing moments, it's a mess. And pretty much everything after is aswell
@@ZombiesVsMyGuns to sum up everything after Infinity War- "It is an enjoyable mess, sometimes not even enjoyable, has good moments but every show and film has a terrible ending."
This really feels like when your little sister insisted on playing with your superhero action figures as a kid and screwing up the game.
Not something we should be feeling from professional Hollywood writers.
For me, Phase 3 of the MCU is where things started seriously falling apart. Phase 1 put together the Avengers and the idea that there were bigger things out there. Phase 2 gave us the Infinity Stones and showed us the greater threats out there. Phase 3 was really a collective mess that was only overlooked thanks to Infinity War and Endgame tying things up from Phase 1 and Phase 2. But Phase 4 has more entries than Phase 1 and Phase 2 combined and is going nowhere twice as fast.
Who even is the main villain of phase 4 anyway?
@@saisameer8771 There isn't one yet. But the funny thing is that you don't need one. You just need something in common to push the movies together towards a similar directions.
You could argue Phase 1 had Loki as the main villain since he's in 2 of the 6 movies. But, he's not responsible for the machinations in the other movies, so he can't really be considered a main villain.
Phase 2 did not have a recurring villain at all.
Phase 3 had Thanos only in Infinity War and Endgame, but he didn't appear in the others. 2 out of 11 movies makes it hard to treat him as a main villain.
Between the new movies and the the Disney + shows phase 4 has managed to eradicate all the good work and good will
all the previous films established! This is the same situation as The Last Jedi.
Hulk was already butchered from the start, why do so many people think he was handled well even in the 2008 or 2012 movies its honestly so sad. Even in the comics its progressively getting worse, the writers are incompetent.
Say what you will but Edward Norton 2008 hulk is the best portrayal of the character. Also the only portrayal of the character that includes most of all his Iconic Moves. Edward Norton Hulk does the Hulk Smash Gamma wave, The Thunderclap, and he even uses the two cars as boxing gloves during his fight with Abomination. 2012 avengers Hulk was good, but not as good as 2008 Hulk. It all went down from there. They could have seriously redeemed him by giving him his rematch with Thanos, and of course having him win, but they didn't do it for some reason. Hulk my favorite character and I hate how they ruined him
@@gensteps923 Amen brother, Amen!
Serious inquiry. I need someone to legit explain why the 08 hulk was a bad portrayal of the character to me
@@EpicMucluck My guess is that most people can't get past the bad CGI. I think Norton is the perfect guy to play Banner. Ruffalo does an ok job, but he's too on board with being a big, green pussy.
@@EpicMucluck
I think the Ang Lee version left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and soured anything else. Though the Hulk himself in that movie was probably the better version.
I imagine the writers watching this podcast while calling them all nerds for wanting a good story and chastising them for not supporting THE MESSAGE
I haven't felt the need to watch a marvel film since End Game. When I've come upon it because someone puts it on TV, I've sat through a bit or all of them. And, there is a big change in their tone and what's going on. Marvel / Disney and their leaders often seem to pride themselves on making the most successful film series of all time, but what will be studied --- once the crazy is out of the water in Hollywood--- won't be how they got there, and not even how they let it slip away as all fame does over time, but how they started the fire then contuined to kindle the flame and dose it in oil at every opportunity they had. Most industry and franchises fizzle out over time but Disney has burned their money printing machine to the ground. I look forward to the day when some company buys out Marvel for whatever it's worth and doesn't even bother putting some of these films on their streaming service, worried it'll spoil whatever following there is left.
Being bought out by Disney was the worst thing to happen to Marvel Entertainment.
@@Tyler_W I was excited for the money it brought the franchise and for a while, it wasn't that bad. But yes, it's awful
I thought Bucky was supposed to be the white wolf of wakanda in the MCU
In the comics The White Wolf (Hunter) is T'Challa's adopted brother. The White Wolf in the comics, from my research, starts out loving Wakanda and was the head of the secret police. He and T'Challa come to blows and Hunter becomes a villian. So, there's a negative connotation with that moniker. The concern with the White Wolf moniker is that they could turn Bucky back into a villian in the MCU if they continue having him use the moniker. I would hate that because it would be a regression of his character. I'd rather he take the Winter Soldier moniker and try to do something positive with it.
At this point in time, I'm half tempted to teach myself to draw. Just so I can make my own fan comics, and provide us fans with actual positive, heroic interpretations of our idols.
At the end of Avengers, I cheered when The Other told told Thanos, "To attack Earth is to court death." My friend asked me why, and I told him how Thanos was in love with Death, and that he would do anything to win her love, including wiping out 1/3 of all sentient beings in Infinity War.
Everyone around us thought that that would be a great movie.
Wish that we would've gotten it.
That was too dark and convoluted for the general public. They needed to simplify it.