Imported to Detroit: The Cadillac Allante Story (with Cadillac Designer John Manoogian)
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2022
- Learn more about the behind-the-scenes details of the Cadillac Allante and its design with then-Cadillac Assistant Chief Designer, John Manoogian.
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You have mastered the interview technique that few CZcamsrs ever grasp: Let the interviewee speak without interruption.
Great journalism here.
Mr. Manoogian is a fascinating gentleman to listen to. Please tell him how much I enjoyed seeing his designs.
I liked the last sketch best.
Thanks for your ongoing series, Adam!
Agreed. So much more assertive than the Pinin. Had that car had a decent platform (...) Benz woulda had to go back to the drawing board on the new SL of 89 or 90. It was all red white and blue 'murcan CADILLAC damnit! "From the home of the Sherman tank"
Definitely some solid sketches there
It’s really crazy seeing these drawings, you can see his influence on a lot of the gm cars of the 80’s and 90’s.
Almost makes he wonder if he had any involvement with the first gen Lumina. It shared alot of his ideas like the sharp nose and lower Beltlines
@@operator91210 exactly!! I can see so many cars in his drawings from the general. It was super cool to see that and I really enjoyed it!
Working in Cadillac Consumer Relations 88-91 we had two people that were assigned as Allante’ Specialists. They answered the special 1-800-Allante telephone number where owners called for VIP assistance. I sat right next to them and oh the stories we heard….particularly from owners of the early ‘87s. Favorite was from a New Yorker who finally sued GM after initially being denied a buy back. He took his case to a New York or New Jersey newspaper where he claimed “power seats that would move at will…and intermittent showers inside the car whenever it rained.” Ultimately he got his silver with red interior car bough back and it sat in the then nearly abandoned Clark Street plant along with at least 10 others that we were told ultimately were crushed and never resold.
Will never forget a visit I got to sit in on from a Pinninfarina engineer named Giancarlo who fielded questions from us on the front lines taking general Cadillac owner calls. I was an original Cadillac Roadside Service Advisor and relayed the most common feedback I heard from owners I talked to- top pull down and water leak problems. His response? “What do they expect, it’s an Italian convertible-they all leak…next issue please.” The pull down motor was redesigned in ‘88 and we finally got it right ‘89…cars also leaked less from 89 to ‘91 when I moved on to Buick then GMC Truck.
I love Allantes, and I'm very grateful to John for sharing his sketches and insights! I particularly liked the sketch John described as "Mercedes-like."
As I've mentioned in other threads, my dad was a Cadillac guy and had a friend who owned a Cadillac dealership. Consequently, my dad got several Allantes as service loaners over the years between 91 and 93. I was in high school and college at the time and got to enjoy driving all of them.
I remember how easily the Allantes would chirp the front tires! The front drive was probably one of the car's the biggest detriments.
I also remember struggling to get the top to latch at the boot on one of the cars I got to drive. As long as everything was working properly, I could get the top up and down pretty quickly. If things weren't working properly, the process was maddening!
All of the Allantes I've driven had the optional analog gauges. The digital gauges were certainly ahead of their time.
I've always thought these were handsome cars. The styling set the direction for the other Cadillacs that would follow, specifically the '92 Seville and Eldorado. Those three cars looked great in the showroom next to each other.
Killing the Allante right when it got a world-class engine was such a classic GM move. Heck, they recently did it again with the Cadillac CT6 Blackwing.
Thanks again!
Recently sold an Orig. ' 76 Coupe DeVille ( My Dads ) 45 K Miles . Bought a nice one owner Allante . Querky Car & Yes That top Design / operation is truly a Joke ! ! Italian Design ? ? Car is powerful & decent handling .
I could see other GM cars in his drawings. Many 4th gen F-body cues, Fiero, Reatta, Beretta, even Park Avenue..
Considering he did these drawings in the early 80's, I can see his influence in those vehicles.
Thanks for taking the time to edit in clear pics over the cards you were holding up. Another slam dunk Adam. Thank you.
You beat me to it!! I was about to say the same thing! I daily drive an '87 Fiero GT & in alot of the sketches I was catching glimpses of Fiero lines. It makes me wonder now since John's drawings were done before the Fiero's introduction, was he inspired by Fiero sketches he saw from Pontiac designers or were the Fiero's designers inspired by John? Maybe John or Adam will see this & comment.
I see the similarities as well. Also I see designs bleed over between Pontiac, Olds, and ,Buick I always figured these designers would see each other's work and borrow certain ideas or trim accents etc.
I love Allantes. I had an 89 and now looking for a 93. Fun car that not many people know about.
gorgeous 80s design. thanks for showcasing Mr. Manoogian amazing talent
Love when you talk to this guy please keep doing it!
Seeing a lot of Fiero in that tape drawing at around 17:00, though I do like the longer front and rear overhangs.
Having 0 vocabulary for car design or art school or drawing in general, it’s just neat to see you guys talk like this
It looks like the ideas lead to the 1988 Buick Regal coupe. I have seen other studio proposals in magazine articles that look very close to the Regal.
The Allante had a delicately beautiful body, a nicely laid out and plush interior. When it was working, it was a good car.
I thought it was very interesting to see John's drawings. It seems like I could see profiles of the front end of the Fiero and the roof lines of the Reatta. What I remember about the Allante was it came out at the same time as the Reatta, cost way more and had poorer performance. I really feel that it was another example of a new GM car that went to market before it was ready and was finally about what it should have been at introduction after about 4 years when it had the North star engine and other improvements. That's like the Fiero, Vega, Corvair and so many other new cars GM sold.
Fascinating from a stylistic perspective. That said, the Allante’s development makes for an interesting collaborative story. My Father (Warren Hirschfield) was very involved with this project. As a young man I got to interact with Sergio Pininfarina several times, he was a gentlemen and a genius, I wasn’t worthy of the experience! The Allante was gorgeous to see in-person, photos don’t do it justice. There’s several reasons why this car missed the mark and I have my own opinions about it.
Thanks for the video!😎
Stories about the inner workings of GM are the best ever
This GM/Cadillac era was so clueless about so many fundamentals of today. It’s like this was eons ago. Thanks for sharing.
Great story. My dad was taken with the Allante and owned two. The first one, silver with the 4.5 liter motor, met its end on black ice in IA. The car was a mess but my dad and stepmom were fine. The second red one had the Northstar motor. I drove both and rode in them a number of times. Fun cars and such a departure from his previous De Villes and Eldorado. Thank you!
Thank you for the interview and sharing with John Manoogian. That last sketch really was great. It would have worked. It really is where things should have gone. I saw photos online of the next Allante that never was online. It refined the Italian design. Cadillac had a difficult time in the 1980's. They starting getting it together in 1988. The market has indeed changed and there is still work to do at Cadillac. I do appreciate the insiders view inside the company. I heard about the longest assembly line. There is a video about it here on You Tube. Thank you so much Adam. Allante'... the driving spirit of Cadillac! I remember this car being featured on Dallas and on different shows in the 1980's.
What beautiful renderings. Makes one wonder if Cadillacs 80s excesses didn't have more to do with Oldsmobile & Pontiac eventually getting the ax than previously thought...
Thanks again Adam for the "inside baseball" on an automobile culture that usually has more questions than answers...
My dad once renovated a Northstar engine in an Allante (along with many other Cadillac Northstar engines) Timesert:ed the block and the whole sheebang, car still runs strong some 12 years later, in fact, he made quite a decent "sidebusiness" out of fixing these 4.6 NS engines for owners..I´m still driving his old ´94 Seville STS as my daily driver after inheriting it, (engine fixed, in advance, naturally..I love it, hard to beat if for a 1000 dollar used car. Keep up the good work with the channel, enjoy it alot, super informative
Adam, I keep thinking you are going to run out of interesting topics but you never disappoint. Thank you! I look forward to your every video.
I admire Adam for speaking up for the cars & bringing us the people behind the cars like John M. It always upsets me how people bash GM & the American car companies all the time when GM is one of the go-to's for R & D.
Thanks for sharing your stories and renderings John. You were ahead of your time which is hard for corporate decision makers to recognize sometimes.
Cheers 🇨🇦
These interviews with John Manoogian are gold. I love them! Thanks for these!
Another wonderful discussion with John. I really enjoyed learning more about the birth of the Allante, and his efforts.
As others have mentioned, it looks like some of these designs made it to the Pontiac Division. The first couple of drawings especially look like the 1st Gen Fiero (before the “sails” were added to create a fastback look).
Some of the design themes kind of such as the formal roof lines and the malaise orientated slant back ends seem to make it into both Buick and Oldsmobile lines and vehicles later on during the decade with wire wheels and brome padded vinyl roofs fake Chrome Brite work and wire wheels lol..
The Allante should have been built on the P-body. With front wheel drive, it was a joke.
Still absolutely loving this series! Thanks for producing these.
I had one for about five years. Loved it, i rarely stopped to get gas when i didn't get approached by people to admire my vehicle.
Thanks for the great history, Adam! I'd always heard bits and pieces about how this happened, re: GM Design Staff being shut out of the project for the prestige of the Pininfarina pedigree. Finally, the whole story from the guy who was there; John Manoogian. The production Allante, while a competent design was certainly not one of Pininfarina's best. It was a rather timid or even bland design - especially when compared with what Mr. Manoogian was coming up with in his renderings. Allante lacked that special "Cadillac style" - that something extra which Design Staff was able to impart on their best Cadillac designs which makes one look more than once to take it all in. I'm all in with John Manoogian and his great designs on this one. Allante was a giant missed opportunity for a lot of reasons: pricing, engineering, quality issues - but especially just tepid looks.
I was in High School when the Allante came out. What a good looking car.
But that last sketch of Mr. Manoogian's is by far and away a better looking car. That car would have been incredible if it ever came to be...
I love these designs. I see elements that certainly have some similarities to production GM designs from the 90s. John is an artist and was absolutely visionary with these designs (and I'm sure others from throughout his career). Also an excellent story teller and conversationalist. I've loved learning about the Cadillac design processes from both John and Wayne. I've looked up to and admired their designs for decades, and it's so cool to be actually hearing from them today. I'm so glad you got them on camera, Adam!
I can't stress enough how awesome these designs are. They are wild and would've offered the sort of unique styling the Allante would've needed to stand out from the SL. The full size tape drawing designs in particular are seriously handsome. There's absolutely the blend of a firebird and an Eldorado that would've been drop dead sexy if it'd made it into production!
I agree. Several of these designs look like 90s Cadillacs, the Eldorado, for example. Thanks Adam and especially John for sharing these sketches.
Wow. Never got be one of the 1st 100 views for another awesome video.
The John Manoogians drawings are amazing, as the usual
Last one was the best
I really enjoy these chats w/Mr Manoogian, and your channel. Thank you!
Absolutely brilliant,
and a truly fun-filled interview with Mr Manookian. Who knew! I
Particularly like his designs with fully-opened wheel arches - clean, sharing and sophisticated. As much as I like the Allanté, I agree that the front and rear were a bit lacklustre, but the background into the project, and to see Mr Manookian’s ideas was a real treat. Many thanks.
Really appreciate these videos. I’ve owned half dozen Cadillacs over the years and the 53, 73 and 78 were great though I’d love a 53 again.
I love my '93 Allante except when I lower or raise the soft top. Thank you for this video.
Yup , That Top design is " Something Else " ( I Own a ' 93 ) !
Mr Manoogian! 🇦🇲 youth look up to you!!
JR Ewing drove an Allante for a while & I decided that I wanted one so I went & looked at one & the salesman, who was a friend, talked me out of it!! I ended up buying a Lincoln Mark Vll LSC!!! Thanks Adam for sharing this interesting video!!! 👍👍
Ol JR should’ve stuck with the big mercs
LSCs were the best at that time!
@@jeffmiller3150 I think so, I kept mine for 20 years & almost 300,000 miles!!! 🙂
Black and white sketches, I see Chevy cavalier and old's tornado bits, ex0) kick up after rear wheels. The red rear images speak Monte Carlo to me. Like John's upbeat attitude!
I had a 1992 Cadillac Eldorado in highschool. It had the 4.9l in it. That was a nice coupe. It even had the fake convertible top. It's funny that gm and Chrysler both tried the Italian thing. Both convertibles too.
I think this gentleman's designs are much more appealing than the actual product.
Fascinating interview and my goodness that final sketch was gorgeous. If only Cadillac had produced THAT car!!
I dare say they wouldn’t have been able to build them fast enough.
John is a great guest and hopefully I’ll find more interviews with him as I work my way through the back catalog of vids 😊
Thanks to John and Adam, who is doing interesting and valuable work as an amateur automotive historian with these interviews. Adam should interview one of the finance guys of the era to explain how they thought they could make the numbers work on the Alllante!
Such insights and foresights. Mr. Manoogian’s interpretations would be a true marquee for Cadillac.
Remember that for the first couple of years GM guaranteed the resale value of the Allante to be the same as the 560SL. Don’t know how much they had to pay out.
I liked the design of the Allante but that last sketch was very nice. I also like the one with the thin vertical thin taillights. I wonder how much the Allante design that would have been completed in the early 1980s influenced the third Seville, Eldorado and the 1994 Deville. They have strong similarities in the front end.
Always love getting the back story on these cars from an insider's perspective. The design sketches are a treat! (Even if they were for a parallel proposal in this case)
I love the positive attitude John has. “I was having a great time.” Eventhough it must have been hurtfull afterwards. Any chance of seeing the clay model, or would John be able to make a small clay model of his Allante? I would love to see that. And would be fascinating to see the process.
Awesome, great video, thank you for showing all the sketches, they were killer.
Not to take anything away from the other designers you've featured, I have to say that John in my favorite. He's just one cool cat, and he's got some amazing designs
I love these interviews with the design guys!
I enjoy my “92 Allante!
Even the struts are working well!
Speed sensitive😀
that first picture, the front clip looks just like the Pontiac Firebird and Fiero. did John design for Pontiac or did they steal his ideas? and the wheels on the third one are Pontiac wheels for sure. I know cause they were on my Grand Am. I saw a lot of things that were used on Pontiac through the late 80's and 90's. and the drawings were better than the actual cars.
Outstanding interview with a personal hero. Great stuff.
Fascinating ! Thank you John and Adam !
John is obviously a hard worker and gifted to boot!
These are such great stories, and such fascinating sketches to see. What a wonderful insight as to what you designers were thinking at the time, and what fairly severe limitations and challenges you faced as well. Thanks so much for sharing all of this with us, John! @20:22 I must say I think you out-styled the Pininfarina design by a substantial margin.
Wow. I'm so glad that you got to tell the story, John! I love what you added at the end about how you enjoyed it so much. It's beautiful work and I see a lot of other cars that came after it in many of the sketches.
Wow, this is a very good video. I liked that last rendering the best, so far ahead considering they were drawn during the early 80's. I do remember the Allante when they were new, all the buttons on dash was what impressed me the most!
Thank you both for another great episode! John, I wish they would have went with one of your designs and given you full reign! The one shown at 9:30 and the very last were my favorites! Absolutely gorgeous vehicles that I wish could have been created.
I have no idea what upper management at GM was doing in those days 🤦🏾
Adam looks like he appreciates that one at 9:30 as well.
Thanks so much Adam and John for the great interview and story!! I love to hear about what when on behind closed doors and the personal experiences of the people involved. Thanks so much to John for sharing! I’m not kidding- I feel privileged to hear these stories and see the drawings!
So cool to see all the sketches!
To me, Allante' is a far more desirable car, and certainly far more attractive than the Panzer wagon Mercedes SL that it competed with. FAR more attractive.
it doesn't look all that different...
The Merc was produced from 71-89 - likely styled circa 1968. The Allante was designed in 83-84 as per this video. That’s 15 years of difference.
My mistake; I was thinking the Allante competed with the 89 SL, not the much older styled previous model.
That was great! Those drawings could be used today at Cadillac. What talent he has..
This is my FAVORITE CZcams CHANNEL!!!
Another great episode with John. I could listen to him all day long. 👍🏻👍🏻
This guy was great. Very interesting.
Nice renderings. It is so interesting to get into the heads of these world class designers. That Mr Manoogian never has had the opportunity to show these to anyone before just blows my mind. Lovely interview
Great segment. The rendering at 20:21 is fantastic. It looks elegant and sporty.
That last sketch John showed was quite attractive. I think mechanical inadequacy was a bigger contributor to the Allante’s lack of success than styling. It was never going to have premium car attributes with the transverse engine/front wheel drive layout, and the 4100 engine was very lackluster.
The Allante gets better with age!! The styling is tasteful and exudes Italian cache which is what people buying these cars needed!!
This was very interesting to take a deep dive into GMs DNA. This gave us a glimpse into the future products that finally made it into production!
You do a great job by interviewing these wonderful people👍🏻. Love your reviews too of course
LOVE these interviews!!
Just want to say thank you I love to my allante I felt like I was driving the Star wars X-Wing fighter every time I fired it up 💖💖💓💗
So cool to see the person behind those designs and how enthusiastic he is about it. And genuinly glad he could share his design to the world! I have always been fascinated by car design ever since I was a kid and many of these reminds me of the early to mid 90s, even though these were made in the early eighties. Many of his proposals were, like he said, more Cadillac compared to the production Allante which was a great design but not enough Cadillac to my eyes. Some of the Allante design carried to the 91-97 Seville but with more ”Cadillac” in it. I hope you can make more of these interview, these are just great!
Incredibly interesting! What a fascinating discussion. Thanks so much for doing these interviews!
great material again thank you !
Very interesting. I do like the Allante.
Thank you Gentlemen!
Oh, what might have been... And yet another fascinating man sharing his wealth of experience in automotive design. As always, thanks very much Adam for bringing this to us. Absolutely riveting!
Love the Cadillac videos👍🏽
Thanks for this video. Very different than the usual Alante videos I've seen. I use my top on my phase II Alante several times a week. Seconds to put up or down as long as it's not parked in my very unlevel driveway.
Not just a 747, but they had been customized to ship the bodies. It was massively expensive, but GM wanted the prestige of Italian built car.
The Alante Air Bridge it was called
@@jeffmiller3150 Its called _arrogance_
@@Paul1958R : Or maybe...desperation!
Wow! Great interviews as usual! Keep em going! I listed some observation references below:
12:44 '90s Ford Probe-ish design
10:35 Cadillac Riviera (Love this design the most)
11:33 Citroen CX rear wheel cover (Citroen tire change joke Lol)
16:29 Cadillac Reatta/Fiero (What the final could have looked like)
Unfortunately the Allante never looked the price and definitely did not beat out the SL in design. As I remember to compete/compare with the SL it was high priced to seem like a SL. A few of the sketches look like variations of a Firebird with the front end.
Excellent video by this has to be one of my favorites.
Great bit of history!!
Adam, Thanks to you and John for the historical insider perspective! As the owner of 3 Cadillacs (93 STS, 00 STS, 09 Escalade) I appreciate the traditional Cadillac styling. I especially loved the shear designs of the late 70's / 80's, but I seem to be in the minority. I did very much like the Allante' styling, even the dash (maligned by many), but unfortunately, couldn't afford the steep price. Ended up ordering an '89 Riviera from the factory since the squashed shrunken design was fixed in that year (i know it was fuel economy). But I still pine after an '85 Riviera or '85 Eldorado!
Fantastic interview!!!
Very interesting Adam. I like looking at design ideas from the past. It’s fascinating.
Thank You Adam for this Story ! Straight Ahead ✌😎 PS Lot of Camaro and Vet in Mr Manoogian art !
I’ve always loved the allante and always want a 93 with N*. I love Cadillacs and have been driving them since I was in my early 20’s. I’m 42 now. My first Cadillac was 90 sedan deville! I currently own 4 Cadillacs 14 ats 2.0t 05 sts4 v8 1sg 05 deville and 69 deville!
Another great interview.
Great video.the drawing at 12.30 has a f type jaguar look way ahead of its time.never seen one here in nz🇳🇿
That’s a treasure. Thanks
Great video once again! There's several of those strange Cadillacs sitting outside around my neck of the woods, just rotting away. It may be too new of a vehicle, but the design ideas, renderings and everything behind the 2nd gen cts coupe would be awesome to learn about! Just sayin! Some of Manoogians renderings resemble the cts coupe from the B pillars back. That tall and fat rear end look!
All these renderings are light years better than what was actually produced