The Inside Story of the 82-88 Cadillac Cimarron - With Cadillac Asst. Chief Designer John Manoogian
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Learn more about the design and development of the 1982 Cadillac Cimarron from former Cadillac Assistant Chief Designer, John Manoogian. John later rose to become Cadillac's Director of Exterior Design, where he led the design of the second generation CTS.
This comment is meant to be directed squarely at John Manoogian: John, I loved my 1988 Cadillac Cimarron and i want to thank you personally for doing all you could do to make the refresh 1987-1988 cars look as nice as they did. Everyday that i drove that car, i loved it. I want you to realize that there were ALOT of buyers of those cars that truly loved them for what they were but had no idea that you were the man behind the design. If i could do it all over again, i would have bought more than 1. But the one i had was so very very special.
I grew up in the late 80s/90s. My mom best friend had a new white cimarron and blue leather interior. It was probably one of the later models, but as a kid, I always thought it was very nice and fancy. I never knew the earlier cimarron history so I was always surprised when ppl make fun of the car as one of the worst Gm cars.
@@Wasabi9111 Well said.
@23:25 looks like a Toyota Prius
Sounds like you made babies in the back of it. 😎
In isolation these cars were nice. However, many owners never got to compare them to a similarly priced BMW or Audi of the time. Saying this as a person from a GM family who basically only rode in GM cars til adulthood.
For those who are too young to remember when this car was introduced, and those other cars were designed, it's really hard to describe the optimism of the eighties compared to the pessimism and downright ugly defensiveness of today. I remember so well the Hondas, particularly the Civics of that time, where the glass seemed larger than the sheetmetal! The guest is so perceptive in stating that in our receding from optimism into doubt and pessimism, the cars today have become more like some kind of tanks--and that doesn't even mention the mad rush to huge SUV's and massive 4-door pickup trucks being used as family cars. Again, I think these interviews will outlast this channel for their historical value. Thanks, Adam!
well said. Car style reflect the zeitgeist. Not a good sign right now. nothing as optimistic as what Ford was doing with the aero look then. Is the Prius PURPOSEFULLY homely to appeal to the hairshirt crowd? (hope you don't drive a Prius...)
czcams.com/video/QY1yiANNUhg/video.html
The Infinity "Wild World" add, with a beltline that almost completely eclipses the rear passengers, is the epitome of today's pervading pessimism.
In isolation these cars were nice. However, many owners never got to compare them to a similarly priced BMW or Audi of the time. GM stopped being competitive, plain and simple.
Saying this as a person from a GM family who basically only rode in GM cars til adulthood.
Opel ascona was not a bmw competitor in germany , it was an economy car, competed with the audi 4000 or audi 80
My neighbor, a typical little old lady, traded in her 72 Coupe de Ville that she bought new for a brand new fully loaded 86 Cimarron with leather seats & a V6. She was getting older & the Coupe de Ville was a little to big for her & she had to have a Cadillac so she got the Cimarron!! It was actually the perfect size for her & by 86 a lot of the bugs had been worked out!!! Thanks for sharing the inside info on the Cimarron!!! 👍👍🙂
I hope by the time I’m 86 “a lot of the bugs (will have) been worked out” too!!! Lol
I applaud Mr. Manoogian for having the patience with senior management that it must have taken. To be handed an important project then given no money and having their talent tied behind their backs must have been frustrating beyond words.
Yes, but at least he was able to sketch to his heart's content! Not that it made any difference! 😏
I totally agree, see my comment above.
Thank you again for a really thoughtful show. Growing up I had several friends fathers that were in GM upper management and the vast majority of them felt that Rodger B Smith was the cause of GMs fall from grace. I remember reading an interview with Smith and him saying that the cars don’t even matter. The only thing that matters was the price of the stock. Imagine a pompous ass such as that running a great car company. He was in charge from 1981 to 1990 and the cars he allowed to be produced show his lack of understanding the industry he was in.
One of those fathers had a short quote he would often share at cocktail parties. “When you make a product, but only focus on the profit, the product you make shall be poop.”
Smith seemed to ignore the fact that those profits depend on selling something the people want to buy. GM was only able to coast on past glory for a short time.
This was an era with bond returns approaching 20%. This made the pension assets money pigs - producing massive actuarial surpluses that were the property of GM thus driving the stock price. Smith assumed GM would maintain market share regardless of product and that pension investment returns would stay high. He was tragically (and predictably) wrong on both counts - to the great harm of millions and of people both within and outside of GM.
It's nice to know that not all the upper management drank the Kool-Aid. I agree with that comment on Roger Smith killing GM.
More John Manoogian content please!! This guy is an excellent guest! I’d love to hear his insights on all the projects he’s worked on. Thanks Adam for making so much great content on your channel
John Manoogian is such a hoot to listen to! Having spent a career in automotive design, I only wish there were more like him in the industry. His crisp rendering style brings back many memories.
I love the interviews with John, Wayne & Bob. I’m a Cadillac guy, which makes these interviews a special treat for me. I absolutely love the inside info they provide. The sketches & ideas are amazing. I was a mechanic at a Chrysler/Buick dealership for 9 years (yes, I used to be a diehard Mopar guy before I got into Cadillacs). Even though I was just a “grease monkey”, I always had a great sense of pride working in the automotive industry and working for Chrysler (well, sort of). Thanks for the great interviews!!
I see that John sketched the New Edge Mustang and the Mopar LH sedans in roughly 1982 at GM. Truly a talented designer sir.
To my eyes, many of the themes in John’s drawings (low belt line, sloped hood, high decklid, and fastback profile would appear en masse a few years later in the N cars, then really took hold with the ‘87 Chevy Beretta and Corsica, and the Lumina shortly thereafter.
Do you know who designed the Beretta?
John, who is one of the most creative designers ever to serve at GM, enthusiastically references your videos. Shows how much you put into your work. Well done 👍
One thing that impresses me most about John Manoogian is the fact he was so far ahead of his time when it came to automotive design.
Great interview! Those renderings were indeed a good 10-15 years ahead in design. I suppose when the management gives the team design restrictions, there's only so much that can be done-when the grille, taillights and wheels were all that can be changed.
love these interviews. these are the designers who created our dreams
These videos are going to be absolutely indispensable for future generations to learn about these cars. Well done!
That man is a lot of fun to watch. Have him on more often.
Cadillac Caveat ! Great drawings Mr.Mangoonian , I was a fan of your work for the longest time .
Always wanted one of these. A 87 model with the 2.8L V6. I drove one and enjoyed it very much! They got a bad reputation for being a high dollar Cavalier but it's what Cadillac had to work with and I like oddball cars like this.
But sadly, that car was GM’s strike two. The ‘80 Citation was strike one. We can debate strike three.
@@DS-wo8wr I'd love to own a Citation! I think there great cars! I love odd ball cars! Hell I daily drive a 82 DeLorean. I find it just as reliable as new cars if not better!
@@DS-wo8wr Strike 3 was the Saab 9-7X.
@@zm321 Wad that the Saab Trailblazer?
@@DS-wo8wr Yes, based on the Trailblazer platform.
Adam, thanks for this video, I am a fan of the J-car, as a Z-24 Cavalier (I owned 3 of them, my favorite was an ‘89 with a 5 speed), but the Cimarron looks to be much like the Fiero, just as GM was getting it right, they killed it. The insight from Mr. Manoogian is great. It is great to hear the behind the scenes info.
I really would love to hear John talk about the whole sealed beam to composite headlight thing. That topic has always fascinated me, and I'm assuming somebody like John, since car design was so incredibly restricted up until 1984 due to the headlight laws in the US. Meanwhile you have amazingly modern looking cars such as the NSU RO80 and the 60's Panhard 24s that looked miles ahead of anything the US was able to release at the same time. Would love to see how Ford was able to pull that switch off, assuming they were the reason the laws changed.
I believe it was Lincoln that was the first to release the flush lamps in 85, and then the Taurus was the one that was noticed the following year when they changed everything anyone knew about styling.
Same here!!
Thank you for documenting this important GM history and thank you Mr. Manoogian for sharing your experiences with us!
Adam, I'm running out of superlatives for your work, the palpable kindness, affection and respect with which you approach each interviewee, the discussion and the good humor- ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
🖖🙏🇨🇦
My 87 Cavalier CS had the exact front end of the first drawing shown. Love it. I feel bad for the dude. He did the best with what little GM would allow.
John is such a great guest on this channel and I love his drawings of the Cimarron concept, we certainly see the later Cadillac designs very early on.
Like others have commented by 86/87 Cimarron was pretty nice for the era, I knew 2 people owned them and they were happy with what one called my Baby Caddy.
All automotive youtubers must watch this! Thank you!
lots of design cues that made it to market with the beautiful '92 seville
John was way ahead of his time with his proposed future small Cadillacs, some of which reminds me of the Catera.
Thanks again Adam and thank you John. These years at Cadillac are misunderstood and ridiculed but you give them an extremely fair treatment. For me 1980 was a tough act to follow. I’m looking forward to the 1992-1998 aero era, as I have a soft spot for these cars
I like that one at the 13 minute mark too. This guy always delivers fun interviews.
Adam, I don’t know how you find the time and these designer’s for these videos but these are fantastic, I can’t push the like button enough! Keep up your excellent work, truly enjoyable!
Manoogian is the best interview out of all...enjoy his stories...ty Adam
I bought a 1986 Cimarron in 2000 for $550.00! I drove it for 7 years! I had it for 13 years. I Loved that car! I saw the First Cimarrons on the Cadillac showroom floors in 1982. I remember liking the dark blue leather interior and steering wheel! My 1986 had a lot of pep!
Adam I can’t thank you enough for having these gentlemen, John and Wayne, on the channel! Their stories, insights, and sketches are so fascinating. Awesome editing work btw
This was fantastic. We now know the real story and it all makes sense now. Cimarron sold.. Who knew. He had a lot of great ideas for potential models. I recognized that European one was the Opel/Vauxhall Omega from the 1980's with distinct Cadillac cues. The interesting thing was years later they did the Opel/Vauxhall thing with Catera. I can appreciate Mr. Manoogian. I hope returns and tells more GM stories from his time at Pontiac and Buick and Saturn. Thank you for sharing and discussing.
If they could've at least allowed that one render with the more prominent hood...
You're a gifted designer! Love your work!
I was a teen when the Cimarron was new, remember it well. In '88, my Cousin bought a new Cavalier with the 2.8 v6 and the CL trim package with the velour seats. That car was an excellent runner, good blend of decent power and fuel economy. I also remember laughing with my Cousin about the futility of buying a Cimarron or even Skyhawk when a Cavalier was thousands less and essentially the same car😁
This is excellent. This is high quality information about this whole ridiculous situation. It’s nice to have one of the original designers and have him be candid.
Another great interview with John, and so interesting. Amazing to see how advanced Cadillac design was back then, and I look forward to more videos with John.
Another fantastic interview Adam! Thank you to Mr. Manoogian for spending time with you - and us - to give us all a little better perspective on the Cimarron. It's amazing how far ahead of their time the drawings are.
Adam your channel is my absolute favorite on youtube.
Adam, thank you. Your work here is so important. I'm overjoyed that you're documenting this for us. And for history.
What a great interview and a special thanks to John for his work on the Cimarron. I still own two of these cars today (an '83 and an '87) and I love driving them both. My local Cadillac dealer keeps them in perfect condition. Thank you, Adam for making these excellent videos for all to enjoy the older, misunderstood cars of the 70's and 80's!
I hope we can see a video of him discussing the 2nd gen CTS!!! One of the most beautiful cars in recent memory
Having worked at Cadillac in Consumer Relations/Roadside Service from 88-92 this video really speaks to me. Gives me so much perspective to all we were dealing with in the field with the dealer body and consumers. For me, this is your best video yet. Thanks Adam.
Good job, I like that you superimposed the sketches over the video so we could see them better.
Thanks for sharing, gentlemen!
20:31 87-88 GTA wheels. I love seeing all the influence that ended up on various GM cars. So cool.
Thanks John and Adam. I love my 85 Cimarron.
Adam, your conversations with John are priceless! I could listen to you two all day. What a pity that budget constraints prevented John’s vision from making it to production. But that is a problem GM has had for too long-dangling gorgeous Show Cars (Elmiraj, Ciel, Escala) in front of us, knowing full well that the production vehicles would bear little, if any, resemblance to them. But that, thankfully, seems to be slowly changing, if the Lyriq is any indication. Thanks to both of you- and John, please tell us the story behind the Lincoln Composite headlamps to which you alluded!
So many of this man’s design cues made it to production in a FEW GM divisions, not just Cadillac. Amazing .
Chief Designer John Manoogian brought over some majorly enticing eighties early era views of futuristic designs reminding me of the 88' Saturn SL1 and 2 sedans, the 92' Cadillac Seville, and the 1995 compact Chrysler Cirrius..
Another great video, gentlemen! We all learned a great deal about the history of the Cimarron.
The 85-88 Cimarron was a really decent little car, especially with the V6 and the 5spd if you can find one. They had excellent leather seats, the digital dash option was a 80s-period treat, and the later 85-88 that finally got some distinctive body ends and trim made for a good looking vehicle. Some years back a Cimarron convertible was making the rounds online, which was a Cavalier that someone had added all the later Cimarron body and interior trim on, and it looked fantastic. Enjoyed the video.
Interesting story. I worked at a Cadillac dealer in Austin from 1989-92; one of the dealer principals was Braz Pryor who John said liked the name Cimarron; after retiring from GM he bought an interest in the dealership. A very nice gentleman.
More, please! Adam, everything you do is terrific, and I enjoy all of your interviews but John is truly a treat to listen to.
These interviews are so interesting. Thanks so much for sharing them!
Fantastic interview with Mr. Manoogian. I love seeing his design concepts and hearing his recollections of that time period. I remember that time well, and was working at Hughes when GM bought it. I was surprised that the Taurus/Sable was mentioned but not the Audi 5000S (100 in Europe) which preceded them. To me it was the Audi that really put aero designs on the map, and cars of the late 1980's all look like they were influenced by it.
Agree that the Audi was indeed a great source of influence for myself, but the corporation never really acknowledged it like they did the Taurus/Sable
You'll have to talk with John again about when the Taurus came out. His insights are so interesting.
This was very educational and entertaining. As with all my favourite CZcams channels, I still have a lot to view in your library but it's good to know it's a go to when I am in the mood. Kudos to you. Keep up the great work Adam. Well..I remember this car because my mother had a Pontiac Sunbird of the same era and she was so happy to travel in it after driving my father's 74' Parisienne (boat) that got 11 miles to the gallon. When I saw the Cimarron at that time, I told my mother she was driving an entry level Cadillac and she laughed. It had a cassette player stereo and she listened to her favourite music while driving all over Ontario. Two thumbs up!
Mom had a Cimarron and loved it.
Some of those design proposals were astounding and ahead of their time. In my opinion, the Cimarron wasn't a bad car at all. It was simply priced well above what the market was willing to pay. I think if Cadillac had been able to keep its pricing in line with the other J-Bodies it would have sold well until a fresh design could be built.
I have no preception of the relative price. How were these priced compared to a 3 series or 190e Mercedes’?
I've always wondered what the average discount was on cars like the Cimarron, the Aztec, etc. I remember buying a 1992 Dodge Monaco (a rebadged Eagle Premier, and reworked Renault 25), fully equipped for $12,500, well below what I'd have paid for just about any competing model.
A lot of design elements in the blue sky sketches seem to have found their way into the downsized Seville and the subsequent 92 Seville STS. Very cool.
The second last one in black is very close to the '92 Seville to my eyes.
What an amazing interview!! I've always been interested in the Cimarron, wish I could get to see a preserved 1988 model that finally came close to being what this brilliant designer meant for it to be from the beginning. I'm really grateful to have learned more about this car from Mr. Manoogian. Thanks for this video!
These interviews are fantastic. There was one guy in my neighborhood dumb enough to buy the new Cimarron. The kids in the neighborhood openly mocked him. ‘Nice Cavalier! What’d’ya pay for it??’…lol
If only I could sit around and just chat with you gentlemen!! I'm so glad you both took the time to do these interviews. It really gives an inside look into the process of making the cars we grew up with! John you did a fantastic job on the Cimarron, and the CTS as well! THANK YOU!!
This is such a treat to get this kind of inside look at the realities of what designers face and as John so poignantly referenced , all of the efforts that were left on the "cutting room floor". I could listen to John for hours, his knowledge,honesty and levity are completely engrossing.
I've been playing a lot of automation and beamng and these interviews are a lot of fun and give good insight in car design. I even did a remake of the Cimarron
I could listen to Adam all day . Very well spoken , highly intelligent individual.
How nice of John to be interviewed.
Great video. I had a 1988 Cimarron..loved it! A real Cadillac fan from 1954 Series 62 Convertible, 1973, 1977 Couple Coup de Ville
1979, 1981,1989, 1994 Seville to my present 2000 Escalade..Great cars!
Finally, the follow up! And another excellent informative video on automotive history with the ppl behind the curtain so to speak!
Something just dawned on me: on most of John's renderings, the A pillars are either minimal or invisible. Ah, the 1960s greenhouse! Beautiful artwork.
I had been with the corporation for just about six years when the J Bodies debuted. Our plant made things which were functional and decorative such as seat adjusters, _all_ kinds of body side moldings, window glass, door handles, seatbelt buckles, etc.
It's nice and I also found it interesting that Mr. Manoogian saw the coming of the Ford Taurus as a benchmark of sorts. I do remember the industry turning toward what someone described as 'the used bar of Safeguard soap' school of design when Taurus made a splash. At the time our plant was running a bilaminate process line that was making the body side moldings for the hot-selling Chevrolet Celebrity. All in all we had 15 bilaminate process lines that just about ran 24/7/365 for several years making moldings, functional and decorative, for all models of GM's vehicles.
Incredible video, why not a similar video for every car produced... A dream!
First of all thank you Adam for such informative interviews so we can see the « other side » from what we remember then. Its very very interesting to see sketches from John of what could have been say Cadillac if there was no finance limits ;) keep up your good work for entertain and inform us, I wish I had your car collection! I have 2 old Vettes for now but following your walkaround and reviews I am dreaming for a nice looking old 2 doors Cadillac or Buick one day. And this part is for John, as a Chev Buick GMC salesman and Cadillac fan thanks for 2008 CTS which is to me still one of the nicest looking car of all time ✌️
Amazing interview! I'm from Spain, and these cars were not sold here, but it's great to hear from its designer 👏👏👏👏
Mr. Manoogian was a great guest and fine gentleman! Some of the later concept sketches he showed were clear predictors of the clean higher deck wedge shape that debutted as the 1992 generation Seville. Some of the best work the Cadillac studio EVER produced IMHO. Another excellent interview, Adam!
The more time goes on its easy to see its not the designers faults, it's the bean counters. They put huge time and budget constraints and results in a paltry product that barely breaks return or looses them money. It's crazy how forward thinking this John Manoogian is, this design reminds me alot of the Chrysler cloud cars as far as how soft and curved it is.
Wonderful! Let’s see an Allante episode.
I rode in an 88 D'Oro and that thing rode really nicely. It had leather, sunroof, foglamps and really felt like a solid little car compared to a cavalier.
You need a 24/7 channel. I absolutely find watching these videos superior to most anything on TV! 🇺🇸👍♥️
Another GREAT episode guys , when you hear John talking Adam , you wonder where the company GM might today be if there were some more sympathetic ears listening rather than skill less bean counters , by whose measure the GM company and its brands were trashed in the 1980's when they need not have been . Where when the chips were down at FORD and the company was bleeding red ink by the bucket load , the wise guys there made such a radical play with the Taurus/Sable project that it deserved to be successful for the sheer audacity of it , and amazingly , it did succeed and put Ford squarely back in the black . They then went to work on the likes of the new aero bodied Lincoln Town Car , the new partial platform sharing of Continental using the front half of the basic Taurus/Sable , and massively lengthening it & giving the rear of the new front wheel drive Continental a almost European look that could have come from Mercedes Benz , however the front was more traditional American , still the package worked very well for Ford and by doing the FWD Continental further dollars into Fords bank accounts .
Quite frankly, the rear treatment of the Cimarron in some of his sketches is exactly what Cadillac used in the 2000’s.
Just discovered your channel. Love your work. All facts, no BS. You should do a Patreon. Enjoying this on my AirBNB terrace in Barcelona. Stay warm in SEMI.
Thx!
Great conversation! Many thanks man!
Next time you interview John have him explain what a tape line drawing is. I feel many of your audience members might not know.
Great content; great presentation; love watching this; and, maybe the best of your whole collection of videos.
You are automotive gold. Thank you for producing these videos and getting the 'behind-the-scenes' info. It's so important to tell these stories and preserve this information.
Thank you. I've enjoyed every video of yours that I've watched.
John was an awesome guy to work with. Excellent designer and great with people skills.
This is so interesting.
It would be fantastic to have the same kind of interview with Jack Telnack about the Fox Mustang and Capri designs.
When I was little, my dad got one of these into our dealership and I always called it the "Caddylier."
John Manoogian a genius of car design.
You make a great point that it was sort of a sales success. It might've tanked Cadillac's reputation, but clearly there was buyer demand for a very plush but small and maneuverable car. The economy must've been nice, and it's funny but true that the v6 was the most reliable Cadillac engine of the era.
While these may have been off the mark when new, as someone who graduated high school in 1998 these were great high school hoopties. Hear me out, they deprecated to roughly the same price as an equivalent Cavalier/Sunbird, they were usually elderly owned so they were often well kept, they were reasonably fuel efficient, small enough to be easy to park, the 2.0 pushrod and 2.8 pre plastic intake gaskets engine were decently reliable, and they had awesome cushy seats.
I owned an '88 Cavalier (bought new) for many years. It served me very well. I can only guess how much better the Cimarron was.
It was way better. The interior leather bucket seats were so comfortable.
Roger Smith era. One of GMs _worst_ CEOs
Id love to hear Mr. Manoogian's take on what the people at GM felt about the Taurus/Sable and how they affected thinking at GM. I think you should do a series about those cars as they really changed the auto industry at that time.
A family friend had a 1987 Cadillac Cimarron with the V6 and a manual transmission....I had a chance to go for a ride in that car and I thought it was pretty nice...comfortable and nimble to handle city traffic.
Another fantastic conversation! Thanks fellas!!
I was in my teens in the mid-80's, and used to draw concept cars during school when i was bored...(which was very often)
Can't help but notice a lot of these look a lot like later years buick and caddys... seems to me like a clear indication of the designs John created were very ahead of their time.
Also those BBS style wheels he had on many of his designs were used on many GM sporty cars for years!
Remember kids: Learn how to draw. It's fun and it can lead you to wonderful places... Peace out!
I chuckled at the luggage rack comment...our 1986 Pontiac 6000 LE was silver over charcoal two tone and had a trunk mounted luggage rack with an integrated CHMSL light. That design wore the trunk rack well and it was trimmed in a flat black. We never used it for luggage, but I did accidently place a brief case on it and started to drive....and the brief case stayed on so I was able to pull over and place it inside the car.
... and now we know who invented the 23" wheel
Great video, very interesting conversation about a very interesting time.
As a child and fan of mid to late 60’s GM design language the 80’s were the complete antithesis of everything I liked and respected.