What The Hell Is Going On Right Now?!
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- What the hell is going on right now?! News this week is that there’s been some million-dollar funny business going on. What’s it about and should we be worried?
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Omega Speedmaster (sort of)
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Here on Andrew Morgan Watches I want to bring you all the best on watches from my personal perspective. There's watch reviews, expert reactions, top 10 lists, the best and worst of the industry and a whole bunch of memes, too. So if you like Swiss watches, German watches, Japanese watches-whatever-you'll be sure to enjoy my channel! - Zábava
I got 99 problems, but having enough money to waste on a ~$3M inauthentic watch aint one. 😏
Absolutely but then I've Been to Spain when I was a kid and spend half a Year's newspaper delivery money buying myself a fake sword.... wish I still had that though I wonder what my parents did with it when I left home
Lol we are so much alike my man.
Probably because you're not Jay-Z 🤷♂️
@@emmajones752he’s not Jay-Z
He’s Jay-Y
@@glennbeadshaw727You know, it’s probably in a weird spot in your house and some day you’ll find it randomly. Life cycle of a long lost item lol
Definitely puts a massive blemish on Philips’ reputation.
Not to mention all that egg on Aurel Bac's face.
Netherlands? The country really has no merit.
@Yorkiepoocharlie It's crazy how Perez got the dial. Could someone set it all up to sabotage Philips, Omega and others?
Yet again...
Good man for covering this and flagging alllllll the other issues at that auction house, and the good work Perezscope has done.
Love Perezcope, I came to know about him first when he leaked how Panerai was using a basic ETA chronograph movement and claiming it as an in house movement.
And ironically, this story is like a grown-up version of Panerai putting pictures of fakes on their site & not spotting it.
It's amazing that "real" watch enthusiasts do the actual work of analyzing the details, and can spot things like this. It reminds me of a similar situation when a car forum noticed that two Ferrari F40's had been sold with the same VIN 90969. Turns out some faking of a totalled car was reassembled for sale with a different chassis number. The "franken" situation is going to happen for profit when someone can take the parts and put to together making it worth many times more at auction.
Cheers mate, I've now just learned this from you👍🏻
@@tynchytemper9618 we're already on to you
@@glennbeadshaw727 Qué?
Damn sounds like my story. I bought an Omega Moonswatch. Took it to Christie’s and they told me this was a fake Speedmaster.
😂😂😂
Good one 😂
Only those cannot afford a proper Speedmaster buy a MoonSwatch.
“ Think about the Paul Newman“ with something that didn’t even occur to me when I did my video just today. Having said that, I always felt that the PN had undergone some cleanup and polishing before the auction based on previous photos and auction photos even though Phillips said it had not. I wonder what else had going on with it. 🤔
I’m happy to see this getting more coverage. I’ve long felt that the auction houses engage in questionable behavior. Remember folks, their interests are not aligned with the buyers but with the sellers. I trust them about as much as I trust the used car salesman down the street. Any industry media outlet not reporting on this is complicit in the scam.
Indeed the right questions, Andrew. It's surprising to see such a cavalier approach from both Phillips and Omega. And this incident is a great reminder that the real value of rare vintage watches lies 99% in (what we believe is) the story. Unnoticed, this Speedmaster could have easily become an iconic artifact, a showpiece of the Omega museum. Funny how with the new story, the same object now becomes a near-worthless piece of junk.
Perez Cope is the best journo in watchdom. Glad to see creators covering his work. I've just bought a movement swopped Omega myself, fortunately it was about 3.5 mill less expensive. Omega don't have the records to give certs anyway. Omega has now admitted fault as you say.
Perez Cope is God amongst us dirty mortal humans
@@PogU_4LifeDo you know he was involved in dodgy vintage Panerai watches in the past?
How else do you think he's so good at sporting fakes?
It needs a thief to catch a thief.
Why don’t they have the records?
@@friskjidjidoglu7415 They just didn't keep precise ones in the first place before a certain date.
it’s starting to sound like their authentication process consists of “can we make bucketloads of money auctioning this watch?Yes? Very well, we’re good to go, boys!”
So Omega have 3.5 million to spend on a watch to stick it in a museum ? Tells me that they have too much money, making too much profit and by the prices they have been charging for their watches over the past few years it doesn't surprise me. Annual new versions of Speedmasters at ever increasing prices and not forgetting all the re-incarnations of the Film Prop James Bond watches at ever increasing prices explain to me how this company can afford to pay 3.5 Million for a museum piece. I have had my Speedy for 12 years and love it, but I'm afraid no more purchases from new from this company.
A watch isn’t that expensive to produce. E.g. a chronometer grade movement will cost around 200 USD. What you are buying is marketing (that Bond sponsorship is not cheap) astronomical rents in prime locations and some smoke and mirrors. And the margins are huge. But that goes for all the big producers, not just Omega. Watches are wonderful, but you are not really paying for the product, and it’s no surprise that Omega (Swatch group) has millions to put into a museum. This in itself is just another form of marketing.
So Omega spending 3.5M upset you, but Rolex spending 18M didn't. Fanboy much?
@@soundssimple1 but Rolex was mentioned, exactly in the context I provided, did you comment without watching the video?
The last time I checked fraud was a crime, I haven’t heard anything about the Swiss police rocking up, only that Omega have started legal proceedings!
Reminds me of that story about the Golberger ‘Unicorn’ Daytona…
Exactly!
I think Philips come out of this absolutely shocking. How is anything they sell without a certificate of authenticity guaranteed after this?
As an auctioneer of 25 years plus I can say categorically that someone at Phillips knew something was up, however they chose to turn a blind eye once enough positive words had been set about the Speedmaster. This is very, very common alas, and I know people in multiple top houses who do things like this.
The "turning a blind eye" is probably the key theme to this whole thing.
Surely you have a duty to out these people in multiple top houses ?
@@JamesIdentity that and there are very few actual specialists, most of those in auction houses who call themselves that are very far from it. Just because you have the business card doesn't mean you have the knowledge.
@@palmeadiaand lose their job within this niche industry
“Bovine scatterings” out of Phillips’ lawyer’s mouth.
Wow, Mr. Talking Hands. A great example of Go Big or Go Home. And now all those damaged reputations, livelihoods, souls, and corporate fortunes, not to mention how this sours the brand; oh the humanity. Any comments on Aurel Bacs and his role or non-role in all this?
He’s at it!
Feels like a huge amount of CYA going on, as Omega clearly benefits from the headline "Speedmaster sells for $3.4 million at auction!" It's almost NFT levels of self-dealing.
It's ironic that this scandal might have inadvertently increased chatter around vintage Speedies. Of course, the criminal charges against the three employees are an obligatory deterrent for anyone else getting such ideas. But the 3 million write-off is barely a dent in Omega and Swatch Group's bottom line. The big question is: how much does this hurt or promote Omega?
It makes you almost think that the entire watch market is contrived. 😮
Why? Does it hurt you so much because it’s Omega?
@@alfieakaronaldogoh c'mon... don't put the topic on the boring path of Omega vs. Rolex... Be superior. Be wise.
@@alfieakaronaldog Nah. He said "the whole watch market" and he's not wrong. Do you think stuff like that doesn't happen with Rolex, AP and PP?
@@veganbutcherhackepeter and even Seiko. Remember the Bonhams Making Waves auction fiasco of 2020.? Admittedly, that was more 'incompetence' than intention though.
@@veganbutcherhackepeter Yep, it doesn’t.
Not even nearly the first time Philips has been involved with scams like these...
Exactly -Aurel Bacs
That's the sickening point… Though the fact that Omega is the final buyer makes this kind of a big joke 😂
@@thomasmoll8822 Yeah, they didn't see the auction result as a value in itself or an investment. Buying it by themselves is strategically a huge mistake. It would have been better to give the money to the opponent and officially "loose" the battle at this high level. Too hard decision, if you are too greedy. I would not be surprised if Rolex, hearing that news, had to close the factory for one day, thus all the employees could not work because of a laughing fit.
@@ctlightrides7544 It sounds like at least one of the people at Omega likely to have been making the bidding decisions (the museum director) was involved in perpetrating the fraud. The higher the selling the price, the more money transferred from Omega to the Omega employee deciding whether or not bid higher. Additionally, the same people were probably the ones who would validate the watch if Omega won the auction, if an outsider bought the auction there was a much higher risk somebody else would examine the watch and discover the fraud.
@@Dennis-vh8tz OMG, you´re right dude. They had to buy it!!! If the watch was expected finishing at 100-200k, somebody gave a bid at 3m and somebody else went over at 3.1m, then it is highly possible, that Omega had 2 players overbidding themselves for marketing reasons. Even more possible Option: Philips discovered that the watch had no collecting worth just by doing their job, checking the watch, reading the documents etc. and knew, that Omega had to buy this ticking bomb at any price to take it from the market and not let it go to a probably very exclusive collection of an influential person. So Philips installed a "Ghost bidder" and made profit by pushing the price. LOL LOL LOL.
Google the original Swiss newspaper article in NZZ. It’s clear that “someone” at the auction house got together with a few of his watch dealer “mates” and the Omega guy to form a very “cosy” and financially beneficial relationship.
It's a terribly sad state of affairs for the watch industry. As a consumer, at the retail level, I feel fairly secure that my purchases are solid, but for those at the big boyz table buying high dollar vintage watch and the reputations of seller and manufacturer it is evident that there is blood in the water. The explosion of the vintage watch dealers...i e watch brokers leaves a foul stench in the air, and I feel that outright lying and misrepresenting customers has been long established. The play book from the used car lots has sold to all who can cough up $29.99 ...
did this come off bitter...I can never tell ;)
BTW Andrew, you do a fantastic job, well done.
I recently bought a Rolex GMT Coke which was advertised as close to NOS. Turned out the bracelet was not right for the watch (I got a full refund). But I saw it's back on eBay right now with no mention of the bracelet problem - for someone else to get caught.... There must be a lot of "Franks" out there at every level.
I bought an 18k gold day date from Watched of Switselrland in Leeds in about 2000. 10 years later I am living in Bulgaria and the crown drops off the dial so I take it to a reputable local watchmaker to have it put on. He told me the movement WAS a Rolex movement but it was NOT assembled by Rolex. He thought it was fake so he tested the inside of the case back but it was gold. He recond it was assembled from either stolen or individually purchased parts.
There were scratches on the plates where screwdrivers had slipped out of slots and some slots were mashed up.
SO the answer is - probably a HELL of a lot...
You're lucky you got your money back. EBay doesn't support buyers so much recently...
What is NOS? No Operating System?
@@PogU_4Life new-old stock
@@PogU_4Life New Old Stock...😂
remembering the Bonhams Seiko Auction of 2020 called 'Making Waves'. Seiko might be considered an entry point into the world of vintage watch collecting. If auction houses can't verify a vintage Seiko full of aftermarket parts, what chance does a new collector to vintage watches have? The answer is - we have to become the expert ourselves, or at the very least befriend a couple of known established collectors in what you are interested in. The watch collecting community is, on the whole, a very helpful community and I myself have had many a useful chat for advice before buying a vintage piece. Unfortunately, 'buyer Beware' is a phrase that has to be used, even when buying from what one might consider a trusted source.
As a vintage Grand Seiko collector i think the answer lays in doing your research & listening to & learning from the experienced such as the Gerald the Grand Seiko guy, but finding fifty year old watches that have not been repaired, modified, or franked is not going to be easy! even seiko's, Caution is the key..
I hope my Rotary GMT from H Samuel isn't a fake. Great video.👍
Retail purchase, you're all good bud😂
I was once duped with a fake Casio, so you never know.
You’re good. Not a fake. But a homage instead 😉
@@KeepingWatchUK No, it's a proper fake with Casio branding. Has a different module, e.g. no countdown timer and time setting works differently - and ironically one major clue is the "made in Japan" claim on case and bracelet - Casio does not make this model in Japan, and the real deal says "made in China".
@@balthazarbeutelwolf9097 I was replying to the Rotary GMT post…
Yet another example of why I only trust independent sources nowadays. Wayyyyyy too many big companies willing to turn a blind eye to keep their investors happy.
Once you notice the constant zoom in/out every other sentence, it can’t be unseen…. 😢
Yet you ruined the video for us anyway
Not that other auction houses haven't had stuff blow up in their faces (shredded Banksy, anyone?), but this one's a proverbial doozy, given all the parties involved.
Sounds like Philipps has knockoff experts 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My guess would be that Omega and Philips relied on the Omega museum to validate the watch, and thus were reassured of it's originality by the people perpetrating the fraud.
What an amazing story. Thanks for sharing! I love they way you executed on it too!
They were only supposed to blow the bl0ody lum off... 😅
It’s a fraud made by a former employee of Omega and two others. They sold a fake and split the 3.4 million between them… unbelievable 😮
Lol if you don’t think Omega had more to do with it, you’re naive. You think they authorized one person to make multi-million dollar bids with no oversight? Lol ok
They also never authenticated it before or after purchase which leads me to blame Omega as a company just as much as the others
The dial / lume hasn't been changed. The two comparison pictures have different color balances.
That may be true, but unless you have seen them in person................
I thinks it’s great when people find new and ingenious ways to con grotesquely rich, and incredibly stupid, people out of their not so hard earned cash.The watch collecting world holds a particularly large pool of such people.Hats off
If this happens at that level, who knows the kinds of nonsense that happen on the lower tiers of the vintage watch market.
Phillips and Aurel Bacs also sold a Panerai with photoshopped serial numbers. The Perez site is pretty shocking
Are you trying to say that auction houses and their clients are artificially inflating the price of the items under the hammer, like artwork, videogames, Pokémon cards, watches, etc. for their own benefit? No way!
Makes me wonder how many times these kinds of scams were pulled before they got caught. The odds of this being the first time? Not likely. The crazy price on this one attracted the attention, but it also suggests that lots of other sketchy things happen at auction, like shill bidding by dealers to drive up prices.
I hope Netflix is watching this for a documentary. Phillips is either lying or incompetent, I don't know which is worse. Omega is trying to buy their own watch at an inflated price for the hype and headline. Somehow I hope this particular watch is worth more now because of this story.
Imo lying is worse. There’s a reason insanity is an actual defense in court
Incompetence i can understand, liars i hate!
Both Patek and Rolex have bought at auction before.
BTW, omega, just like any company CAN NOT bring Criminal charges. Only a justice system can bring Criminal charges.
Absolutely brilliant video,, thank you,, 👍
Selling the story is so much more fun and easy than the authentication part though!
Oh I'm sorry, did we say Paul Newman? We meant Pol Neumann, this is an authentic Pol Neumann worn Rollex Dayton-ahhh . The highest standards. :)
You couldn’t make a fictional story as intriguing as this schomozzle. It would make for a great Netflix movie.
Thanks for covering this and supporting Perez 💪💪💪
I LOVE your videos, so informative and entertaining. Keep up the amazing content.
Great journalism. Makes you really question the value of "heritage" in watches. I guess we all should really just buy what we like, rather than what people think we should like
Thanks for this man. I’m so tired of “luxury” watch brands engaging in such scummy business practices to artificially inflate the prices of their watches. Every single one of them needs to be called out and put on blast. The watch community isn’t going to put up with this $hit.
Buying Casio never looked better. I don't give a fig about any luxury brands. The most erudite brand I'll consider is Christopher Ward. Rolex, Omega, and the rest of the overpriced shite can do whatever it wants, it won't effect me.
Meanwhile on Reddit: "gUyS i GoT thE CaLL, WHaT ShouLd I wEaR tO ImprESS mY Ad?"
@@desireless4092 it’s so cringe worthy… the reason I would never buy a Rolex. I’d like to distance myself as far as possible from being associated with people like that, or that have that sort of mentality. It’s actually sort of sad…
@@bryanb4308 I like to rock my FXD that I got recently. Such a liberating no bullshit straight to the point watch. I adore the fixed lugs and I love it when my resident watch afiliados go "Ackchyually"
Surprisingly I got it really easy since most people don't give a F about Tudor.
@@desireless4092 yeah there’s some decent value to be had in the Tudor arena and they’re very well built watches. The FXD is a bit rich for my blood, but it looks incredible. the black bay 58 on the other hand is available all day long for $2800 on the second hand market.
Perezscope is pure magic ! Now I am highly surprised that Petros; the Head of the Omega Museum & Heritage be actively involved in such a scam. The guy appeared as a nice honest person in all the videos I saw of him. I’d love to know who did what exactly as there are hardly any doubts that the active criminals will end up behind bars for a while…
If every criminal and psychopath looked the part, they'd certainly have fewer victims, eh?
10 years from now this watch will be sold for even more as "the watch that fooled Omega"
So there's been some naughty goings on at Phillips and Omega just to make some money?? Hard to believe. 😂😂😂😂😂
Instead of hiring Perezscope, brand and auction houses try to sweep him under the rug. What a lack of humility. But hey, the truth is the truth.
Is called an inside job
It’s like the Invicta deal; buy one, get parts from six other watches free.
But oh, when I think how bit-player Invicta are pilloried for their “dodgy pricing practices” when the entire upper echelons of the luxury watch market is rife with it. 🤣
This incident isn’t a bug. It’s a feature.
This is no doubt happening at every level of vintage watch sales, not just auction. Think of all the young people with businesses selling vintage. There is no way they can properly authenticate... Period. It's too easy to create fake components, to easy to swap pieces. Dials. Hands etc.....
You had me at 'mostly authentic Omega components.'😂 Omega have remanufactured the Calibre 321 to power their Speedmaster Heritage watches. Here's three former Omega staffers that faked up this Greedmaster without sourcing an appropriate donor Omega movement. They must've really needed the money!
Is there any surprise that the watch industry is rife with shady people and dealings.. when the core of the business is money, all bets are off and integrity is no where to be seen.
This puts every second hand watch seller on notice that their business is dying. I'm a fairly recent entry to the watch collecting hobby, I want a collection on nice time pieces, that are 'real' . Now I see that I can only achieve that if I buy brand new from the maker or their best AD. It has probably destroyed my 23 yr old sons ambitions 😥
Grey market is grey market no matter the participants of the sale.
But to have the manufacturer collude with the auctioneer is not a good look to say the least.
A permanent blemish to say the least
Caveat Emptor
Really interesting video .. thanks for making it for us Andrew!
There is definitely a lot of questions about the "luxury watch market". I suspect there is a lot of money laundering going on, tax dodging, and other financial shenanigans related to the artificial inflation of certain watch prices. At the end of the day, though, its a game for those with big bank accounts and, as he who has the gold makes the rules, they will continue to get away with it. Sure, there will be exceptions where they are caught but, like major drug busts, its just a drop in the bucket. In the meantime I will enjoy my Seiko's and Squale's.
You have good taste sir..
@@kerrybayton2954 Thank you so much! 🙂
Publicity is the cure. So good work. Excellent video.
How interesting, and unsurprising.
Who is perezcope? How does he come by this info? Legend!
Lot of silly money out there.
No auction house does enough to authenticate watches. Doing so well is expensive and time-consuming. Now it appears even brands themselves should get not only their own in-house expert's opinion, but an independent third party's!
Honestly, this is the first time I knew thid channel existed. I love andrew's voice, commentary and quirky remarks on the watchfinder. It is nice go know I get to hear more of it here. Can't stop making a chuckle on the previous vids.
Great editing, good banter
Is it weird that I want someone to make a movie about this?
Ultimately its the end consumer that pays the inflated prices on the secondary market. In the distant past the purpose of the grey market was discounting from MSRP. Now, affluent buyers churn the items to seek profit. This magnifies the effect of the limited availability set by the makers. The watches are already inflated in price relative to inflation and improvements in manufacturing. Overall causing pricing to become ludicrous.
Not only on secondary. The brands do not make money on secondary market. It´s all about to push the retail prices for new watches.
Phillips allows brands like Biver to stage sales with high final bids for marketing so not surprising they turned a blind eye here.
Ali Express watches don’t look so bad to me after this vid!
Just make sure they are all authentic and original parts! Has that San Martin been doctored in some way? Do you know the provenance of that Pagani you have your eye on? 😂
Are you selling those AMW jumpers?
I've worked for an auction house and a couple of galleries. I am not in the least bit surprised. Now, I should probably send Phillips my Omega Oyster Navitimer.
This is not exactly a one off. Anyone who’s regularly dealt with auction houses over many years (antiques, collectables, you name it) will know every dodge - ringing being the most common. The higher the (potential) value, the more tempted the dishonest will be.
Perhaps a natural progression from this video would be an episode on why perezscope media pages are being taken down…
Makes you wonder about buying any used watch.
Any publicity is good publicity, maybe not this time
I have some silly putty with ink from a 1934 comic strip imbedded in it. 😂 Come one come all, hurra hurra hurra. Just who buys this sh!t?
How do these people even get together with their money in the first place? A vintage Omega isn’t worth 3.5 million. No more than Steve’s watch is worth 17.5 million. Who are you going to show it to?Thanks Andrew
I feel better now about the Yugo I bought.
I aspire to own an Omega but this doesn't help at all. There are a lot of brands...
Think about the Paul Newman or various Pateks.
When you are on certain level in work,you slow down.
Omega has redefined truthiness paradigms.
So I'm confused. Which was the authentic watch? Where are both of these watches now?
I don’t get those prices.
So… did the buyer get a refund??? 🤔👀
should also mention Phillips was suing Perezcoped of defamation before omega acknowledged it bought the frankenwatch
… thinking my Casio f91 might be fake too … 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣
One word: “Busted!”
It doesn't surprise me.....unless you absolutely know what you are bidding on, then don't.
Dont worry Omega will make lots of money selling special edition reissues of this stunning watch!
I think it’s time for the lawyers to make some money.
Brilliant commentary 👏👏👏
This could also affect Omega’s credibility
Great that it’s been uncovered and exposed. The watch industry is becoming very lucrative for shady individuals.
Buyer Beware
Philip’s needs to hire Perizcope 😂
All told there is only so much steel and crystal and machining in a watch. The rest is perceived value. An auction like Phillips, lets people that have disposable cash, compete to see who perceives the value as greater. The crime Is that someone tried to dupe others into perceiving the value as more than it was. There may also be a crime, and that Phillips may have known. Or should have known.
Auction house colluded with big brands to create hypes for new models, no need to be so serious. Despite of the genuinity of that watch sold before this LEGO watch, Ex-emperor and last emperor were different times.