LKL - Christian Singer Jennifer Knapp Comes Out - Pt. 4/4
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Can you be both gay and a Christian? When Jennifer Knapp walked away from her successful Christian music career in 2003, fans scratched their heads and wondered why? Now, the popular songstress is ready to talk about her comeback and her coming out! Its been a polarizing topic of discussion within the Christian music industry and by fans. Pastor Bob Botsford says his heart breaks for her. Find out what happens when Knapp and Pastor Botsford sit down face-to-face. Ted Haggard also joins the discussion.
Good for you Pastor Bob Botsford!! I am standing right there with you! John 14:15,21,24 says if you love me you will obey my commandments (sayings). Jennifer you can't only obey some of the Bible. If you are a Christian find out through His word what a Christian truly is. And His word is not mysterious at all. He gave us His Holy Spirit to reveal to us the whole truth. There are no excuses. though no one is perfect the Bible says to strive for Holiness.
Amen!
I've come around to liking Ted Haggard a lot more than I ever imagined I ever would. And Jennifer Knapp - Rock on... she's always rocked and always will...
'When was I gone!?': good reponse to the assumption that gay=abandoning faith. Great to see Jennifer holding her ground respectfully and lovingly. Personally, I find it much harder (but know it's just as important) to love folks like Pastor Bob!
It's all about love, and it seems so many forget that. Too many people think they live lives without sin and judgment comes way too easy to way too many.
I am a Christian, Right Wing, Conservative, Straight male. And I love Jennifer Knapp. Ye without sin cast the first stone.
Go and SIN NO MORE!!!
***** "I adhere to the church's teaching that a homosexual orientation doesn't have to be changed..."
I'd be looking for a different church, since Jesus said, marriage is between one MALE and one FEMALE, confirming what Genesis says. Romans 1:26,27 says, homosexuality and lesbianism is "shameful" and "against nature", and verse 32 says, anyone who approves of such people will also be judged guilty on Judgment Day.
The Roman Catholic Church has always butted heads with actual Biblical teachings, putting it inline with any other cult on the planet. The False Prophet will come from the Catholic Church, putting an exclamation point on its long anti-God/anti-Bible legacy, at the end of this age.
A Christian needs to be careful not to judge someone, mainly because he might be judged guilty for the same thing, by God. Jesus NEVER told a Christian not to judge at all. Jesus said,"Do not judge according to appearance, but JUDGE WITH RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT" (John 7:24).
A Christian can judge with righteous judgment, but not condemn. Only God condemns.
Darwins Myth love the sinner, hate the sin!
Eric, but you too will be judged for allowing your sister in Christ to sin and by not saying something you have hated her, lied, cheated, stolen, and committed murder because you knew of her future and the destruction of sin and yet said nothing. Is it love to allow someone you see in a house next door to burn when their house is on fire? Would you go to their door and calmly say "hey can you step outside for a while? I just don't think you should be in there right now. ITs not good for you or your health." NO! You would scream and shout "Hey Hey Open the door!" .. and when they came running, ... you would scream, "YOURE IN DANGER! GET OUT NOW! YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE! SAVE YOURSELF OR YOU WILL SURELY BURN ALIVE AND DIE!" And you might even run in after any pets or loved ones they have to save them as well! So just as so, its your charge to share the truth of the fire and try to pull them away and out of it. Because i'm pretty sure if the cops came next door to you and asked why you didnt' call or help and you knew it was on fire and let them die....hmmmmmmm
hearing all this, is shocking to me that church is debating over sin, sin is sin no matter whose opinion. i will never living on anybody opinion when the bible is hear and God has given me the holy spirit.
how can two people on the opposing side be right at the same time?
+Acha John Adoya I was asking myself the same thing. LOL!
Self-righteousness comes from Pride which always thinks "I am better than you." This is the problem when "All have come short" smh
This is a battle I grow tired of. We are all sinners. We admit our sins. We repent and ask for forgiveness. We are forgiven. God forgives infinitely ... but do we continue to do the same sin over and over just to be given God's love and forgiveness? Do we run to the "GOD IS LOVE" clause just so the sin committed is accepted? And those who don't accept the sin are considered as non loving? Jennifer needs to accept she loves her sin. And admit she hides behind Gods love and forgiveness to continue her sin. Don't force your sin to be accepted by others as the government is forcing us to accept your sin....
amen sister. Christian people are trying to love her and help her, yet she spits in their face. The story of Jesus all over again, came to save His own, but they didn't want to know Him. Tragedy. But that is not the end of the story - we have a great hope!!! :)
The government is forcing you to accept sin? How? I think they're enforcing laws against murder and exclusion from the public marketplace...does that force you to accept sin?
If you don't agree with being "forced" to NOT MURDER individuals you don't like, you don't belong in a civilization: go find a barren wasteland to run your cult in.
The Bible is a book. An old book written thousands of years ago and then translated MANY times, all by a small, privileged set of people who wanted to control the masses.
If you knowingly choose to serve a being who is omnipotent and omniscient yet allows the existence of hell and damns to it all who don't stroke his ego, you are the only sinner I see. YOU are the monster who willfully condones and supports suffering.
The concept of sin implies that our actions have both tangible and intangible consequences, the intangible connected to a soul/spirit, which there is no proof of. Sin is that which your god disapproves of, regardless of whether or not it causes tangible harm to people: if it against the law of your god, our souls become tainted and we are damned to hell.
I care about reducing the actions of people which demonstrably harm us. Being in a same-sex relationship isn't shown to harm others.
Btw: sodomy is the crime condemned in the old testament that is so often linked to homosexuality: sodomy is ALL sex which cannot lead to procreation. By that, all those supposed Christians who are infertile or use birth control or engage in the vast majority of sex positions are damned to hell for the same crime gay people are.
Don’t judge
I almost lost a family member over this topic. My brother grew up under the thumb of a fundamental church and felt so bad about his true self that he tried to commit suicide. Pastor Bob is a contributor to the unbelievable amount shame placed upon the homosexual community.
The Bible says, "If you love me you will obey my commandments". Opinions are like navels, everyone has one. But Truth is what God says it is. People find ways to justify their actions but in the end it's what God says that matters. God wants good things for us but when we choose to operate outside of the boundaries that God has established we will face the the conscience of our actions. It doesn't matter how sincere you may feel we need to love what God loves and hate the things that God hates. You can love the sinner but hate the actions. But you can't claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ and do the opposite of what His Word says to do. Oh, about Judging if you read the whole verse you will see that we suppose to Judge but be righteous Judges. One lie that the Devil REALLY LOVES is to quote scripture out of context. When a person quotes that scripture to you what they are really saying is, shut up and let me live the way I want to. They would like to say it's hate but in fact it is love warning them of the end result of a life of rebellion against God.
The devil always loves to twist the matter so that there is a small fraction of truth, mixed with lies, to make it appear as though it may be okay. I had to sacrifice a "love" myself, albeit not an LGBT one, and it broke my heart, but I did it to myself by becoming involved in the first place. I knew better, in my heart, but the devil whispered, "if there is any type of love involved, how can it be sinful.?" But the truth is, the heart is sinful amongst all things, this is what the scriptures tell us. If our eye causes us to sin, we're better off to pluck that eye out... as it is far better to be in heaven than to have two eyes in hell.
On the matter of sin generally, we all have a cross to bear. We all have things we struggle with, be it orientations or deliberate choices. Just because we feel we identify a certain way or desire a certain thing, doesn't mean we have to act on it... this is the taking up of our crosses.
God also said in Jeremiah, "When I was forming you in your mother's womb, I knew and approved of you." So there, Bob.
Sally Avant
You just twisted scripture to conform to your Ideology.
Here is what the Scripture actually says.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
This Scripture does not suggest God was approving of Jeremiah despite some sinful behavior or tendency he might possess. It is simply saying God had chosen him as a prophet before he was even in his mother's womb. There is no approval of a homosexual lifestyle in this scripture
You may rather take a romans 12:1-2 approach to how you read the Scripture.
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Allow what the Bible actually says to renew your mind and then be transformed to then be found acceptable in the will of God.
Oh goodness. Go Jennifer! She is right so so right.
Thank you for posting this. Jennifer is amazing and if she inspires even one LGBT teen to accept the truth of their sexuality and live out and proud she's done a wonderful thing.
I have always loved Jennifer Knapp even before I found out about her sexuality!! Will this change that, absolutely NOT!!! She is and will be a better person then that pastor bob will ever be, for standing her ground on how she feels and on her beliefs. It's amazing on how contradicting the christian congregation can be at times with their fingers always pointing.....I completely agree with her 100% !! And just hope she continues to do what she is doing, thank you soo much jennifer!1
Wow, Jen, I soooo admire you for being this brave and courageous and clinging to the love of God. I believe that homosexuality is NOT a choice nor a sin, but faith and following Jesus is. I choose to follow Jesus and, yes, I'm a lesbian too, but Jesus loves all of us. But He doesn't want us to miss our purposes. The Bible has evolved over the centuries, unfortunately the church hasn't all the way. Is my way of thinking right? Some of us are to stay single, some of us are to become involved in a dedicated and loving relationship (whether gay or straight). The truth shall set us free. Praise God for an abundance of grace, love, acceptance and forgiveness. I sure need it. Bless you all, and know that you are loved and life is a gift to you.
Hi 16dutch
What do you mean the bible has evolved?
@amandamilo5 Choice of lifestyle? Yeah, I know I woke up and decided I wanted to lose my family, lose my Church, and lose everything I knew. Yeah, I definitely decided to be gay, I couldn't wait to experience all of that rejection.
It's not a matter of choice as much as accepting a lie. Remember Satan is described as the great deceiver.
This was really a great discussion. I appreciate all sides weighing in.
She has always been in God's family, she never abandoned God's family. She is a Christian and the Lord is blessing her and using her to help so many in personal crisis due to their natural sexualities. Lay off the Legalism Pr. Bob! Love more! Do your teaching to your congregation, let Jennifer and other be touched by God, the way they have been inspired, not with your gifts Pr. Bob.God uses other holy men and women to deliver His message to ears that will hear the way that He wants them to hear.
Thanks for the video. I was glad someone posted it.
I'm glad that Jennifer came out and can be an example of someone who is both gay and christian. I'm also glad that she was able to handle this debate with such class.
Jennifer Knapp is the best in presenting arguments out of the three. She is articulate and comes across as genuine.
I worry about the state of the pulpit after watching this video.
I can't stand the wishy-washy standpoint of Ted Haggard, that God-is-love and we-are-all-sinful and get away from the seriousness of sin. He is just trying to please everyone and play the good guy. I have no respect for him just from what he's saying, not for his past wrongs.
LOL "where have i gone? where did i go?.....because i wasn't in YOUR church?"
No matter what desires of the flesh I may have my identity is not in them. My identity is in Christ Jesus.
Its hard to agree or disagree but it is clear she is a lover of the Lord and she is working it out. Jennifers music has gotten me through many hard times and I will always love her for that and will continue to be a fan!
No one is saying she is less than human or not valuable but God's Word is God's Word. No exceptions.
I am so amazed by the grace of God in Teds life! So encouraging to see someones heart so changed. I want to add that I am pretty sure Ted agrees with Bobs view in regards to homosexuality. On that same note... he understand grace... and this makes it all so much sweeter to see.... Bob exploiting someone elses sin to his congregation is simply not Christian....
Thanks for posting the whole interview. I'm very glad to have had the chance to watch it in entirety. This particular medium - tv interview banter - is not a good forum for the topic, unfortunately. Nobody was able to state their case well, and nobody was really heard. With the primary emphasis remaining on who is right and who is wrong it certainly doesn't make "faith" very appealing.
It is CNN.
I am gay and I am a Christian. I came to know Jesus before I knew I was gay. My relationship with God runs deeper than my sexuality. God has a plan for gay people who choose to follow Him. With the suicide rate being so high amongst gay youth, I'm sure, in some cases, this struggle between Christianity and Homosexuality is a root cause. Why can't we breathe life into something, instead of cursing it? 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
I like how Larry said, "It can't be a sin unless it's chosen." It is not a choice. Why would anyone CHOOSE it? Gay people are born that way.
The Christian life is about relationship AND doing God’s will, not sin.
I think he said,"Love one another." to EVERYONE.
What does that mean? Think that through to a conclusion. How does that play out. Don't just scapegoat your one liner into trying to shame someone. I love my dog. Do I let him do anything that feels good. What if he likes to lay in the middle of the road and absorb the heat of the asphalt. It feels good to him. Should I let him. Truth is always reasonable. Give me your reasoning.
Jennifer kicked "Pastor Bob's" small minded, bigoted butt!!!!! Go Jennifer!!!! I love your music whether you are a lesbian or not!!!!!
This is a perfect example of a woman who hasn’t humbled herself to gain wisdom. Pride comes before the fall.
@SuchIsLifeVideos I know, and I am sure he is not "cured". He chooses not to let his emotions out. He has a very hard high price to pay if he truly lives to what he wants, so he will be happily frustrated pleasing others with his stand on pretending he doesn't like men. But anyway, he was pretty impressive in that interview. May God keep on blessing and giving him more courage and strength to the future!
There shouldn't be division among the church. The church should be one as Christ is one with the father and if we are one in Christ then we are one in the church according to scriptures. It would sure make a stronger family and community if we did. This is the Hope we have in Christ.
God Bless you Jennifer Knapp too lot courage to come out I am also one too beliver comes out I care less ppl going judge Christian or not they still going judge u .
I'm a woman who loves women. I'm a born again Christian and have loved the Lord my whole life. Was it a choice to be this way? For me, personally no. It's just something that 'happened'. I loved guys growing up. When I was in my last teens I started thinking of other girls. Later on had my first experience with a woman. My body and mind just naturally went in that direction. My interest in men deteriorated.
Do I wish it wasn't that way? Sure!! Anybody go through the same as me???
I am just astounded how much hatred people who claim to be Christian show. The only thing I have gathered from those people who disagree with Jennifer and claim to be Christian is hatred. If you disagree, fine whatever. But why portray all the hatred? Who are you to tell Jennifer she can't be accepted by God because she is a lesbian? Since when did God teach us to hate? The attitudes of Christians today make me ashamed to want to call myself that. In fact I can do not use that term when referring to my faith in God because I do not want to be associated with people like that. Full of hatred and judgment. Would God tell you that your job is to break Jennifer down with your words and to cause others to discourage her as a living human being ( who has feelings). Jennifer was also created by God just as you were. What are your people's problems. So what she is a lesbian. Whether you believe homosexuality is a sin or not who are you to tear her down? To act like she is an outcast? To portray hatred. She breathes, she has a heart that beats,... How is she different from you? And yeah she isn't on the Christians charts anymore. Good for her. Why would she want to be part of a community that is so judgmental. But for someone on this boards information - she has a lot of backers who care about her , love her, and loves what she does. Jennifer is very talented. And she is a very sweet and humble woman. It is a shame Christians act like they do. I am a person of faith meaning that I believe in God, Jesus, Jesus payment for my sin, His teachings and commandments of love, but I will not call myself religious or Christian... because of how I have seen Christians treat others. And reading Jennifer's story and hearing what she has to say and seeing how people claiming love and Christianity strive to tear her down... Why would I want to be a part of this community. Those of you who participate in this hatred, put the icing on the cake of me recognizing this ignorance. Those of you who act like this - you are supposed to bring people to God, not push them away. But you are telling them they can't be loved, they are sinners, they are abominations. Even if you think homosexuality is a sin, why be so hateful? By being a Christian and acting these horrible ways you tell people they are not worthy of Gods love. But who are you? Have you taken a look in the mirror at your own life? You can tell yourself and others you are perfect, but take a minute to recognize truth. You may want to start with your attitudes towards others who love and serve the same God you do.#JenniferKnapp
you are talking nonsense, publicly, in fact. The only person who showed LOVE on that show, was pastor Bob, the only true Christian. Stop slandering Christians, you do not know what you are talking about. Jesus is clear adulterers and homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. That's why the warning. If Christians were full of hatred, they would let be her 'true to herself' and spend eternity in a place where there is no kingdom of God, no God - hell. Think. God gave you brains.
Oh, is that what Christians define love as now... blatant hatred and ignorance... geesh.. I am so ashamed to identify as " Christian". I feel sorry for you that you will go through this life ignorant . Oh, and for the record... Bob is a fucking idiot.
+arrivingin2008 I agree. It was hatred, judgement and disgust wrapped in phony kindness and "love" I can understand why Jennifer was getting angry at them. She was just saying" yes I'm gay but I still have faith in God. Bob was like, "Yeah but your wrong and your evil. repent Jennifer, your a sinner. You're not a christian like I am. Your faith is phony unlike my REAL faith" I would've been just as upset as she was.Even the ex gay preacher was right when he said "Christianity comes in many forms and we all have our own ways of seeing it" but NOOOOOO...anything he says is blasphemy because he used to be gay....uuuuuughh
King MultiGenre wake up
arrivingin2008 , Thank you for your words. I was thrown out of 2 churches back in the 70's for being a lesbian. I was about 19 when this happened. It devastated me. I was led to believe, that God hated me for being gay. I Even tried to take my life one night. My relationship with Jesus was all I had left, when they kicked me out . I thought back then, that they were denying me my faith, but faith was all I had left, when this happened to me. I have followed Jesus teachings since then. His words are the only words I pay attention to. Am I a Christian? I don't say that anymore. I am a follower of Christ and a humanitarian . I will probably never attend services again, but my faith and my relationship with God has only grown since then. Today I am 56 years old. I don't believe God wants to keep gays and lesbians ou of heaven. Unfortunately, I believe that 's what a lot of Christians are still trying to do. Thank you for speaking out and may God bless you, each and every day of your life
Thank you for uploading this.
I am stunned. Ted Haggard as a balanced voice? Seriously? How/When did that happen?
wow! great interview...thanx for posting this:-)
Jennifer Knapp: "Do not use my name as a substitute for the word 'homosexuality'." yes
Christians focus so much on "sin". I know there are behaviors we should not do...killing each other, lying...etc... but you all group just being human as sin. Why are we so afraid to just be human, explore, expand, make mistakes, learn... so when we grow, it's intrinsically owned rather than extrinsically forced. I choose to be human. Which is why I released the title title "Christian" a long time ago. I will never self identity that way again. Also, I LOVE Jennifer Knapp. I hope she is doing well in her life these days
remember christian people to, love the people, not there sin. love the gays (as a person) but don't condone being gay. if you were born gay you can be reborn, born again. John 3:3 talks about being born again...... no 1 can be too far gone.... but i assure you being gay is not the way
Wow! Jennifer! I just watched you on Larry King. I have so much to day but limited space here. I just wanted to say that SIN was created to show us our need for Jesus. Through Jesus we find Grace! That Grace covers our sin! You have confessed your need, as I have, you are saved! Both pastors missed this. We cannot CHANGE who GOD created us to be! GOD can change us if HE so desires to do so! I am sorry Jennifer that people are so quick to judge! I love you in Christ!
@dvelvet I don't actaully think the bible contraidicts itself but the translations make it seem that way. Jennifer is someone who's music has helped me through things in my life and I feel her music will continue to inspire me regardless of her sexual orientation.
As usual, the love of God is the argument to accept what God calls sin. Really?
I don't think being gay is a choice. It's who they are. I didn't choose to be straight. Its who I am.
-Jantv81
(I'm re-posting , because it won't let me thumbs up!) Great Comment!!
Wow, Ted has really come of age. I didn't like him before, I do now. He's focused on the importance of the relationship with God rather the religious, legalistic aspects that have ruined the Christian faith.
Ireally respect this girl and Ted Hager the pastor who came out also as gay men ts not easy to face a public television . But i recpect the church and i love God . IM also a gay men .
Bob criticizes Ted's comment by saying at 1:47 "what it gives way for is truth that is relative", yet in part 3/4, he says at 9:10 "although there are verses in the book of Leviticus that say don't eat shellfish...god changed his mind on shellfish"
Saying that something is "wrong" or a "sin" is not the same a judging someone. Stealing is wrong. Am I judging the thief by saying that? No, of course not. Judging someone means to think of yourself more highly than them because you are not engaging in the same sin.
sin is made up bullshit that people use as a shield so they can pretend there not judging people, time to grow up.
mike hunt i hope if someone ever breaks into your house and robs you, that you won't judge them either
Darwin bless you.
Precisely... She is convicted about her choice.
I applaud Pastor Bob!! Used to be a bug fan of Jennifer. Will pray for her.
Wow, my grammar is really bad in this comment. smh. lol
Wow I'm seeing more and more prophecy being full filled today. It's amazing to see someone described in the new testament that God describes as reprobate and having a hardened heart that can't even comprehend their own deceptive state. It is comforting though to see how accurate God's Word is regarding these end times. "Repent and be saved" (God)
It's all about their "PRIDE"
ls jensen and money, unfortunately...
Christopher Avenant You know I meant Gay Pride (The Lord detests the proud;they will surely be punished}
ls jensen Didn't know that. Can't say I agree here. The pastor want's to bring in Hebrew law while he himself has a bald- shaven head. Also a no-no in Hebrew Law. Personally I can't care less about hairstyles or sexual orientations. Jennifer being a lesbian does not affect nor harm you in any way, shape or form. We all live in glass houses.... You pointing out their pride is pride already. Me pointing your pride out is pride. Where do we draw the line? And PLEASE do not throw a "The bible is very clear on..." because no, it is not. I spent 5 years of my life in a theological seminary and I can tell you, it is NOT clear cut.
And we all know that pride goeth before the fall. I think Satan just wanted to steal God's rainbow for evil.
Descendants of the bloodline of Cain and of Adam whereas Cain being the father of all that is evil, for there is murder in their hearts and blood on their hands. They run toward evil deeds instead of recognizing the evil that they do and turn away toward God and heaping onto themselves preachers who will tickle their ears and give them false hope and the broad way to damnation instead of following the narrow way Christ Jesus. Repenting and turning away form their evil desires with true repentance. Amen
My respects for Bob
The only one who stands for the truth
Ted's so compromised staying in that gray area, no black, no white in the statements he's making. He did not call homosexuality a sin not even once! Shame on him!
100% agree.
Danny Rodriguez he's not brave enough
Danny Rodriguez fuck off bitch this pastor needs his ass kicked for judging jennifer i support jennifer not that judgemental pastor who's going to hell
The lukewarm will be spit out
Bob's process of guilting his female church attendees is part of their process. They have to go through a process of guilt to get to the next process. God uses everything. have faith!!
@Beaupedia God bless you dear. i know how hard it is. but we'll always know that God loves everyone. EVERYONE. gay straight or bisexual.
So much so He tell them the truth.
God is great: the darker it gets, the brighter is His light. I love these no-brainer "discussions" for they display the fact that evil is an express train that never stops at any moral boundary station. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Too many chefs in that kitchen. Would have loved to hear more from Jenn. Pastor Bob can REALLY benefit a whole lot from looking at Scripture in its entirety.
jen,i'm a straight dude,and i wish you were my sister. you're a doll, god bless ya'..
As a result of Yeshua's love that was demonstrated by his sacrifice and his teaching that we should love our neighbors as our self without condition. I always wondered why when so called Christians judge others it is all Old Testament but when they sin they want New Testament judgement and forgiveness.
very interesting and thought provoking.
I honestly never heard of GOD changing his mind.
No Ted Haggard wasn't always that way, but look at where his journey has brought him. At least from this interview it seems to have brought him to a greater place of love which is all we can ask. I say that if a greedy tax collector can become a disciple, if a Roman soldier can become martyr, then Ted Haggard can grow as well. I just which that Bob Botsfard would listen to him and that he would abide by Jennifer Knapp wishes and not use her as an example for anything "bad" or "sinful".
I don't think being gay is a choice. It's who they are. I didn't choose to be straight. Its who I am.
If she truly has love for the Church she would just walk away and not sully the Christianity she claims to love so much.
She should walk away from the church to not sully herself with the reputation of ignorant, sadistic monsters.
@@goldenquill96
Are they all monsters?
You cannot commit your life to sin and expect to be forgiven by Christ. You will make a mockery of the Salvation that was given to you and God said I will Not be Mocked! Choose Life.
Right, and by continuing to do what God says not to, just puts Him right back up there on the cross, again and again.
ls jensen Well spoken
Wow...Jennifer wouldn't let Bob talk at all. She kept interrupting him. So rude. However, this is such a complex issue, and I believe it has to be an issue between the person and God. Period. Nobody else gets to make the call besides God.
God does the judging but it is okay for somebody to pull her coat tail and say, Hey sister, that's not the way that God wants you or me to live!
@pinknotebook He was saying that it wasn't a sin unless you chose it, and if being born homosexual is the case then Larry equates condemming homosexuals to be no different than condemming people who are born with four fingers. (being born with less femeninity - or less masculinity wouldn't be a choice and therefore can't be a sin)
I did lots of Bible study long ago when I was young and didn't know better. When I grew up and gained knowledge and life experience, I grew uneasy with the errors, contradictions and immorality in the Bible. I researched for 2 years in REAL Bible Study to find out who wrote it, why, from what stories and over what time period. As you must know they just copied stories like the Flood, Virgin Birth and Resurrection from neighboring older cultures. I have been a Spiritual Deist now for 25 yr. Peace
Everyone should have the right to love whom they want, not whom they should. The one thing in Religion is to love your god. Am I right? Come to think of it, we are all sinners. We don't really have the power to judge people, God has that power. We have our opinions, good or not.
I think it is absolutely possible to be a Christian and be gay. The basic idea of Christianity is that we are ALL incarnations of God. Also, homosexuality occurs naturally in other species... for example, black geese and dolphins.
It boils down to one very simple question - “Did God make you a sinner?”
Following that question, answer the following:
1. How is a Christian to regard and deal with sin in their life?
2. Why would we deal with the sin of homosexuality any differently from any other sin?
3. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God and do you acknowledge its authority over your life?
Perhaps question #3 should be asked first and predicated upon a simple “yes or no” answer, you can approach the others.
3. No. Absolutely not: it was written and translated many times over for the purpose of controlling dumb sheep.
2. Guess you better condemn ALL sodomizers, including your infertile brothers and sisters who still engage in sex and those who use birth control and overall anyone who has sex that cannot lead to procreation.
1. With much shame and automatic submission to an old, corrupt manual. Which is why I left. Sin is a construct, and so is your god.
you're saying that homosexuality is a sin? your questions are all loaded. clearly, this is your opinion of homosexuality. I don't much care if someone is gay or straight - do they love Jesus? are they excited about Jesus? that's the question.
Back then she was probably seen as the courageous one. Today this pastor would be tossed out of the room and she would be celebrated.
Bob is unbelievable. He speaks for Jennifer like he knows her 100%. Only GOD can judge us, All I know is that GOD IS LOVE.
You lie, you steal, you cheat or whatever its still a sin. But God's love is so much bigger than that. God is forgiving.
Im bisexual. AND I DIDN'T WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND DECIDED TO BE BISEXUAL.
My sexuality has nothing to do with my faith and my personal relationship with GOD.
The Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Is he suppose to say it’s ok? I really don’t understand this type of thinking.
@@LaJuera25 what verse?
He's figuring things out. He's in process.
In my opinion, this innate VS acquired/chosen debate is a very complex issue and most people cannot find a sure answer; it's actually a devilish subterfuge. The point is not whether we choose to have homosexual tendencies and desires or not but simply whether, like with any other sin in us, we choose to give it to God for Him to nail it onto the Cross or not. Whether we ask for His help or not and believe that He is willing and able to rid us of it, sooner or later, or not. Faith is the key here and those homosexuals don't have enough faith to be saved. They see many professing Christians who cannot get out of this sin or another one and so they say, "it just has to be impossible", i.e. they go by what they see and not by faith. God bless!!
there is entirely too much SHAME in our Christian society. SHAME leads to abortion-a woman-girl gets pregnant and is afraid of the SHAME she will endure so she ends the life of the baby. People deny their own sexuality because of SHAME. And the place SHAME should be (in Washington DC)...there is none. The only answer to any issue of "sin" is to love the person...really love them, not just say it.
That is very beautiful and profound
The first testament and the new testament condemn this very sin; unlike ritual regulations, moral laws remain valid because they are so much more important and don't concern Israel alone. And Ephesians 5 along with the passage in Genesis that the true pastor quoted make it clear that a marriage and a sexual relationship have to display the relationship between two different persons, because they point to Jesus and His Church. Homosexuals preach a very different message: Christ married with Christ or the Church married with the Church, which is aberrant and impossible. So you don't have to get into debates about Greek's translation (Miss Knapp didn't talk about Hebrew, interestingly enough), you just have to consider the fact that Rev. 19:7 mentions the marriage of the Lamb with his Bride and the word for marriage is transparent, it's "gamos", like in monogamy, so there is a direct link between marriage or wedding and Jesus and His Church. And that is the essential, transcendent reason for marriage, not to satisfy our desires only or to populate the earth only. Christians are witnesses in this world, first and foremost and if our witness is false, we're no Christian, we're doomed and betraying our spouse and Lord. God bless!
Paul said he was the biggest sinner and yet the pastor says Paul said no longer do I kive but Christ lives through me. Pastor dont understand that the flesh is what sins and the new creation is the real you on the inside. if we dont separate spirit and flesh we will never understand it. the Bible says " to him who knows it to be wrong and does it, to him it is sin" Law gives strength to sin, Jen has been Amazing in showing her Grace, the pastor could learn something from her.
Ted Haggerd is scared to make a stance and just tries to appease them all.
I appreciate Bob Botsford's effort to stand up for God's truth yet he's not very articulate, and doesn't demonstrate wisdom since he doesn't acknowledge the struggles that she's gone through.
Larry King should have invited people who are more knowledgable and articulate in presenting the gospel. I wish the conversation could be more interesting.
The devil always loves to twist the matter so that there is a small fraction of truth, mixed with lies, to make it appear as though it may be okay. I had to sacrifice a "love" myself, albeit not an LGBT one, and it broke my heart, but I did it to myself by becoming involved in the first place. I knew better, in my heart, but the devil whispered, "if there is any type of love involved, how can it be sinful.?" But the truth is, the heart is sinful amongst all things, this is what the scriptures tell us. If our eye causes us to sin, we're better off to pluck that eye out... as it is far better to be in heaven than to have two eyes in hell.
On the matter of sin generally, we all have a cross to bear. We all have things we struggle with, be it orientations or deliberate choices. Just because we feel we identify a certain way or desire a certain thing, doesn't mean we have to act on it... this is the taking up of our crosses.
@ramses86 totally agreed. I was very offended with this quote.
Hebrews 13:8 says "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Since the sacred scriptures in which he so follows also states that Jesus is God, therefore God cannot simply 'change his mind' (unless he was Mormon lol)
Jesus is the Word of God Ted.
yes they can.
i tithe and god has blessed me..... don't knock it till you try it
-"Where did I go"
-"Australia"
-"I was gone because I wasn't in your church?"
Bob, the church is global in nature. What your punk hairstyle and threads didn't teach you, Facebook should have.
Best wishes Jen. Glad to see another Kansan on the national stage!
I think the implication was that she ran off to a faraway place to continue living as a homosexual.
@muffility12 It actually bugged me a little how tolerant Ted Haggard was during the interview. Not in the sense of he's right or wrong for believing one way or another, but more along the lines that I just wanted to take a stand. Sheesh, grow a backbone, Ted. He kept saying, "Jennifer is right in this; the pastor is right in that." And fair enough, both argued legitimate points at times. I don't care where Haggard personally stands on the issue at the moment, I just wanted him to take a stand.
The real problem with this issue is firstly when they throw around the word homosexual as if the word was invented at biblical times, most verses people quote against homosexuals are actually about the behavior and not about the attraction. We need to study the roots of the terms and the cultural meaning of it when it was spoken, We do this with other verses, why haven't we done this with the word Homosexual? it wasnt invented in bible times so our meaning may be off from what the bible says.
how about, we just keep eachother in our prayers and hope the best for each other, and put our faith in the words " he who begun the good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"Philippians 1:6. After all, it is the church of Christ, not the church of any of us, Jesus was the one who died for us, not anyone else.
What about the scripture that says "Go and make disciples of all men"?
After praying/talking to God about my concerns about a lot of church’s views & treatment of people who are homosexuals or lesbians or binary (identify as male & female or maybe even neither) I have come across a lot of eye-opening online articles some of which I’ll share the titles of below, particularly the one titled ‘My quest to find the word ‘homosexual’ in the Bible’.
I also realise that a lot of Christians may not be open to accepting what the writers in the articles are saying &/or have discovered about the original meanings of some Biblical texts because they have been so indoctrinated by incorrect translations (see also ‘My quest to find the word ‘homosexual’ in the Bible’)
of the Bible as well as by teachers who naturally want to remain true to what they believe are correct interpretations (when they aren’t).
Recommended articles:
‘My quest to find the word ‘homosexual’ in the Bible’
‘What does the Bible say about homosexuality, same-sex attraction, & being Transgender?’
‘The exorcism was over in 15 minutes but nothing changed - LGBT life in Nigeria’
I know this fool did not use that tired phrase on a nationally televised discussion. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve? I mean come on.
And generally is truly annoys me when Larry interrupts his guest but that moment he called Botsford out on judging Knapp? Priceless!
Ted forgot the scripture that says If you love me KEEP my commandments.
Think any type of sin is going to cut your communication off with the Holy Spirit. Some people are willing to compromise and give into sin. The Bible isn’t ambiguous about the sin of homosexuality. Jennifer was on a public platform - under a Christian label so why are people surprised that this was not ok in that realm? Christians are absolutely told to call out sin. Only the world looks away while evil is being done.
The way he put it, he claimed that he was dealing with compulsive issues but he's a hederosexual man... so yes, pretty much, he is gay. In denial, but he putts from the rough to quote Good Will Hunting
I think they're missing a big part of the argument. There are two different topics. The homosexual tendency and the homosexual relationship. I don't know of any Christian (although I'm sure they exist) that says that just because you're attracted to a person you are sinning. The question is what does the Bible say about having a homosexual relationship. I wish it were black and white. It is however black and white on the love and grace of God. Let's focus on that.
Take a moment and imagine Jesus joining in this conversation.
The Biblical God was unable to think of a better way to forgive sin than sending His only begotten Self to die on a Cross in a short record breaking 6 hr, ask Himself to forgive men's sins and let Himself pretend to die, but get His body and life back anyway as good as new even though a Supreme Infinite Being would have no need for a human body? OK, I respect your right to believe a story like that. If God is Omnipresent, where does one go to be seperate from God?
Jennifer should never have agreed to meet with a pastor that has an interpretation of bigotry! He was very rude to her.
How was he rude? Name one thing he said or did that was rude?