Prosecution makes closing argument at trial of Oxford shooter's mother
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2024
- The Oakland County prosecutor made her team's closing argument Friday at the trial of the Oxford High School shooter's mother, Jennifer Crumbley. Here's her entire statement.
The worse thing was that Jennifer said she wouldn’t do anything differently.
I concur.Iwas like really, you still don't get it.Smh
I couldn’t believe she said that 🤷 smh.. 🤦
Exactly 💯
I have to agree. Although I don't believe she is guilty of manslaughter.
I think that was tactical. If she says she would have done something differently, it’s admitting that she believes she could have prevented what happened. Which let’s be frank-she absolutely could have. So could the husband. Hell, even the school if they had have checked the shooter’s bag. But the parents had SO MANY opportunities to reduce the likelihood of the shooting starting from actually showing Ethan more love and care, to paying attention when he requested help for his mental health, to paying attention to the signs he was clearly displaying that something wasn’t right, to not buying him a bloody gun, to paying enough attention to the drawing to question what the intention was behind it, to checking his bag or AT THE VERY LEAST taking him home when he was clearly struggling. But she doesn’t want to accept this reality, and she certainly doesn’t want to pay for the reality she played a big part in causing.
Her actions towards handlling the dirty bedroom are exactly a metaphor for how this woman handlled her child . Let him sleep in another room and neglect disgard the mess in his room, she did not want to deal with it or with her son in trouble. The boy was drowning and she gave him a gun The arrogance she showed, stil , is whom she is , disgusting, not a caring parent for his desperate deepest needs
I think she was fleeing because this was something concerning her son she did not want to deal with.
@@fromcarlawithlove She fled cuz she knew she was -- or more appropriately, they were, mom and dad -- getting charged.
Yes, she was pretty much avoiding all the elephants in the room. I do feel bad for her, but the victims did not deserve to die over her decisions. What the hell was she thinking, not thinking
@@loveforeignaccents yes but it also shows how she neglected her son again, if you dont know how to act with your problem child , get help ! No one gets a discription added when a child is born but ignoring them when they are desperate is nnever a solusion . And thinking to flee does not resolve anything
@@fromcarlawithlove Exactly.
Because of her decision to get a gun for her child, knowing he had issues & things going on like grand-parent dying, separation from only friend, no friends, and his fears of just being alone. Almost all parents I know would be searching for help, a counselor or maybe a support animal. NOT A GUN. So I feel she and husband are guilty of neglect.
Agree. Mom was acting like a young teen actively looking for men even though married.. bullets n gun bought for a child
Never again will I watch a trial with this defense attorney or judge.
Pure torture.
Not guilty, the defense proves they did not prove the parents had prior knowledge
SAME
It’s not a tv drama, it’s a real world trial.
@@SC-ls3ivthey did not need to prove they knew he was going to shoot up his school.
To not even go visit her son when he was being charged speaks volumes and such selfishness.
She wasn't in the court for that?! 😮
@@lisadavis380 No. They abandoned their son and fled.
I agree. Jennifer Crumbley’s behavior was not that of a mother who had an ounce of love for her son. She Left him to rot and ran! Her son was begging for help before and she ignored him… there’s a pattern here. Imagine not being loved and being so alone.
Exactly! You would think regardless of what he did a parent would want to see their child in person one more time before he goes away for the rest of his life.
@user-ji9ox2yh9e and you bought that bullchit 🙄
Anyone whose saying “but she didn’t commit the murder” should actually google what her manslaughter charge means.
This case did not meet the burden of manslaughter
Involuntary Manslaughter
The term involuntary manslaughter refers to the unintentional killing of a person that happens when the perpetrator is committing another minor crime, with no intent to kill, or is engaging in reckless behavior that caused the death. Involuntary manslaughter is differentiated from voluntary manslaughter, as there is an absence of intent to kill or cause harm to the victim. In most jurisdictions, there are two types of involuntary manslaughter, constructive and criminally negligent.
@@hollynonya6991 and I would argue that criminal negligence applies to this mother perfectly. Not getting help for a child who has displayed, or even just conveyed, explicit mental health issues is a punishable offense. Because of her sheer level of neglect (or straight up ignorance) Ethan was allowed to go out in public, rather than be institutionalized like he should have been. Which resulted in multiple deaths.
@@ASparklingFlame I personally think they did, but that’s not what my original comment was about.
More so the fact that people seem to be missing why the state went for this case at all- Her neglect of the child who committed the act allowing them to use this particular charge.
No they shouldn’t google it. It’s different in every state. What they should do is listen to the judge at the very start of the trial read off the elements that must be met.
I found Jennifer unlikeable, bad choice to put her in front of a jury
OJ probably got off cause he was 'likable'... or maybe because he was really innocent? LOL but... it cuts both ways, me thinks
But good choice bcuz it shows how dull she was as a parent. Showed us her true colors
@@crimegeek true
She rolled here eye's🙄 Sounded like she didn't give af the way she answered, acted like her time is being wasted, not even a little remorse shown, etc., etc.. She for sure didn't put her son first. As long long as she had her alcohol and horse's nobody else matters. Hope they at least give her 10yrs. and 10yrs. of probation.
Lock her back up!!!!
She was but teenage kids are more unlikable
What I didn't see was a mother who was so very sorry. I never saw empathy for the 4 murders or the 7 injured. I never saw a mom who just got carried away with her own needs and realized after how many mistakes she made by ignoring red flags. I never saw one ounce of remorse it was the exact opposite in her very own words she said she wouldn't do anything differently if given the opportunity. She lied over and over on the stand. The hard cold truth is Jennifer hasn't learned anything and doesn't think she did anything wrong... I raised 3 sons 25, 25, and 26 who were raised around guns. Even though my sons went through safety training, we always locked guns up in a safe, and they weren't mentally unstable. I think, like most parents, we made mistakes and learned from them. Most of us will never be a parent of a school shooter but if we were I can't even imagine that if our children were to do something so awful that we wouldn't look at ourselves asking over and over what we could've done differently...unlike Jennifer Crumbly. She ignored her 15 yr old sons mental instability and purchased him a gun... She is guilty, IMO
I agree, I would be inconsolable and blame myself regardless of details.
So well said thank you!
Agreed 💯
I wish the school could have denied Ethan from attending until they saw proof he was saw a therapist.
School districts don’t have that power.
The buck stopped at neglectful parents
I wish they had of just checked his back pack
The school said legally they can't make a student leave. There were services for him that day. They decided to leave him because they needed to go to work.
It all happened on the same day
That defense attorney and judge reminds me of dumb and dumber...
💯
I imagine the attorney is a mark against Jennifer in the jury's eye bc she is so annoying.
@@sisypheantask9242bingo
Yes they are dumb & dumber. I’m thinking the defense attorney strategy is to create a “mistrial”.
I can't believe the judge let the journal in as evidence!
She tried to portray herself as a better parent than she really was.
She straight up lied
They would have done better to portray her as a bad parent who didn't have the right skillset. That would have been better than building their case on a delisional premise. Blaming the school only works, if they had done everything right.
She acts like her son begging for help was a joke
Sounds like she is sorry her son survived
She is.
I hate to say this, but I think she may have wanted him to kill himself. I mean, why else wouldn’t you secure the gun?!
I’ve commented that multiple times and every time my comment is removed. I truly believe they didn’t care if he “was gone”. He planned this and did the unthinkable… but his parents created this monster in many ways!
She could have been a shooting victim of Ethan, IF he could have found where you were sleeping in that magnificently kept HOVEL!
@@jeanettecoleman-mz7ie true but he has now made her pay a much heavier price for what he did. Call it spite?
She wouldn’t do anything different
GUILTY!
Outrageous!!
Her son is in prison for life.
Four children are dead.
Others live with scars, pain and trauma.
But she wouldn't change anything?!?
She was obviously too self absorbed to care enough to try to help the poor kid prior to the shooting. Worse than that, she armed him. How did the shooting itself not knock some sense into her? How is she not heartbroken and begging for forgiveness from the victims, their families and her son?
She didn't even ask about his welfare once she was arrested. Does she actually love her child? What he has done is abhorrent but she is still his mother.
Her saying “ I wouldn’t do anything different” was surprising!
The judge is very ineffective. .
When she told the prosecutor, during His closing when the defense objected, “the jury has been here a long time”, I was appalled!
It's looks like she has better things to do and doesn't want to be there
I"d of loved to see the judge that her son had ,she would of quit and stood there balling her eyes out and yelling at him!!!!LOL!
@@dandugan812 it is all about her and her acting performance
@@user-yh7yg7ys6n Rude and the kids coming out of college like her, they think they know everything and it's ALL ABOUT THEM,HER!LOL
I hate to say it, but Ethan is also a victim. Had he committed suicide, I don't think his parents would've been held accountable, but it would've also been manslaughter. This is crazy. The neglect that some people have been raised with is heartbreaking.
Sadly, not all parents have love and empathy for others. The child suffers. The child is guilty and so are the parents for their indifference and gross neglect.
Agree, she doesn’t strike me a s a warm and fuzzy kinda Mom or person really. I am surprised to feel some sympathy for Ethan.
My heart breaks at how lost, very depressed and so very neglected this young boy was. I agree that Jennifer could have changed the outcome by just showing love to her son. He got the breadcrumbs and new it. I find her immensely responsible.... GUILTY!!!!@
Now this is a lawyer I can listen to. Guilty or not guilty.
Respectfully disagree. She rubs me the wrong way, as does the male prosecutor.
She’s horrible. How can she and her partner wrongful conviction Ethan Crumbley, a child, use things against him that now are twisted to convict the mother. I don’t know how she sleeps at night knowing she’s crooked as it pertains to her
I feel that this prosecutor was so patronizing in the first 10 mins. BUT she is still better than Smith, IMO.
@@myredhuntingcaphow can you claim Ethan Crumbley was wrongfully convicted ? That is a direct and disgusting insult to the victims, their loved ones, the witnesses, and the jury. How dare you excuse the actions of a gunman? It was murder.
Mrs. Crumbley clearly failed to exercise an ordinary standard of care towards her son & so is therefore guilty of involuntary manslaughter, as is - most likely - Mr. Crumbley.
Besides the souls who were murdered, it is so extremely sad that he cried out for help to his mother, she ignored him and now he's going to be in a penitentiary for the rest of his life due to his mental illness. And the lack of a mother's love.
Yes, that is such a tragedy, 4 kids died way too young, and 1 will die in prison.
She is grossly guilty.
She is both.....
Whyyyyyy would give your child a deadly weapon 😒 🙄
Did that defense attorney really object during this closing argument? She’s trying to deflect and throw the prosecutor off. How petty.
I’m not excusing the shooter - worse things have happened to kids his age and they didn’t go out and murder people! Buying a disturbed teen a gun is a recipe for disaster. I feel so sorry for the victim’s parents. 😢
Jennifer was too busy looking up men online and having affairs like she was single.
It’s a big clue when your kid stays locked in his room for hours playing video games, not doing his homework, not bathing or brushing his teeth, and his room is a pigs sty. I’m sure he had no chores, either.
I took my kid’s phone, PSP and lap top when I found out they were online messaging strange kids (or adults who may have been posing as teens) in other states!
I had NO problem in going in my kid’s room and checking things. People want to be friends with their kids instead of being a disciplinary parents.
Agree the mom didn't care for her son.
I knew she wouldn't be able to keep her mouth shut.
Absolutely. But I don't feel the prosecution proved their case. She is innocent unless the prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
I watched all of Ethan's court hearings. It was heartbreaking. They (parents) def failed him.
She’s been allowed to interrupt the prosecution throughout but during closing arguments she should not be doing that. There’s been way too much chaos and drama in this case.
@@bornfree0507attorneys are allowed to object. That’s their job even during closing arguments
Growing up my Father did not even allow me or my siblings to play with water guns. Yet we have certain families taking their children to the gun range.
It is like a culture shock for me
While we helped Mom & Dad bring home the deer for the years meat!
Really a watergun? Yet they are used frequently and daily by millions of children for harmless fun. Yet violent video games that are more realistic isnt a problem. Wow.
It’s shocking to me as well. I’m in Michigan and a lot of parents take their underage kids to the range. There’s no need for this! My child isn’t allowed toy guns. With the way the world is and with all the school tragedies…we need to take dangerous and violent things out of our children’s lives… not put them in!
We weren’t allowed to play with toy guns, because guns are not toys, but my dad taught me how to shoot a rifle when I was about 12. He taught us extreme caution and never left us access to them unless he was present. He understood they were made for killing. Not a plaything, not something to just own for fun.
He was incredibly serious about it. I appreciate those lessons.
He shot and killed himself in 2019.
I don’t understand the complete idiocy of people who think guns are a pastime or a hobby. They are for KILLING.
I grew up around guns. No locks never touched them. Taught gun safety and my dad verbally went over and over and over the rules.
I believe it's a parents responsibility to lock guns away from kids and use trigger or other locks. And you don't buy a depressed kid or teen a gun.
Guilty! After all the evidence shown this "mother" is guilty of all charges. I refuse to listen to Shannon Smith's closing because I find her a reprehensible person. Her law firm specializes in defending pedophiles, rapists and child abusers. She herself is morally bankrupt. I pray the jury finds JC guilty.
Couldn’t agree with you more !!!
Bye ✌️
Need I remind you that this is the USA-- and we have a constitution that guarentees EVERYONE even those we find reprehensible a fair trial--that is what makes America special.
I do not think being on tv helped her to better her so called career !
The defendant wasted every one of her penny's penny!
Lol, okay? That's exactly what's happening here. If someone wants to also call attention that the lawyer represents horrible, terrible, awful people she can do that. @@DebF-wb4qg
Ok, buying the gun for someone under 18 is against the law in Michigan. Denying care for her son is gross negligence. Attempting to evade the law is criminal. Aiding and abetting murder is criminal. 2 years is a blessing for these parents but they will never be free.
It's a federal crime too I believe
aiding and abetting doesn't apply here. the point isn't that she knew he'd shoot up the school, it's that she didn't care.
The father bought the gun not the mother and they didn't buy it for him to use when he wanted to they bought it so they could all go to the shooting range to hang out last I knew a kid at 15 was allowed to go out hunting with a person over 18 and last I knew a kid 14 and older could stay home by there self with out a parent
Her son already pleaded guilty and has life in prison. For what he did not all parents go though a kids cell phone if that parent feels they can trust there kids to do the right thing.
@@aprilbrinkman7343do you think the parents would say "we bought the gun and assumed he wouldnt shoot his peers"? Would they say it was for any other time than the shooting range? Probably not.
This is an awful thing that just occurred to me. Did Jennifer actually hope that having a gun would give Ethan the opportunity to kill himself??? She behaves like the type whose self centered hedonistic life would be much better without this child she didn’t even get health insurance for.
This was my conclusion a few years ago. Jennifer wanted to be free to live her life. She knew her son was suicidally depressed. Probably didn't think he'd be violent towards others though.
I absolutely think she was expecting him to take himself out!
I've been thinking that as well.
Others have brought this up numerous times. Very highly possible!
I for sure thought that. She just wanted her “problem” to take care of itself.
The prosecutor is killing it
And there she jumps up and object during closing!!!!????
Yeah, that's bad form. Unless it's an egregious misrepresentation of the facts in evidence, lawyers and judges generally allow way more leeway in argument.
She’s the most awful, unprofessional attorney I’ve seen. Sitting there with her legs crossed in short skirts like she’s lounging on the beach. Plus, that annoying shrill voice. 😣
the 'judge' was disappointingly soft in her response
@hikikomori8722 Judge should have told her in a stern voice to sit down
The first time it was because Karen was trying to talk about a video that was never brought into evidence, and that my friend is not allowed
Jennifer, should not have said, "I would not do anything different."WOW!
If she gets convicted, ppl better watch out. Because if your child goes rougue, you may be paying with a jail sentence. The school should have done better due diligence. This was a minor. He should have been sent home immediately, regardless of what the parents wanted. He was disturbed and should have not been allowed back until he got help. The Oujie board could have played with his mind, too. Pure evil. A matter of poor judgement for both parents.
I agree on all accounts 100%
If you can show as a parent that you took any steps to get your child help or loved your child, you won’t be convicted. This is a very high burden. There has to be pretty extreme neglect/circumstances.
ouija boards are sold by mattel. they're toys, they're not evil.
what the school did was spend all morning sitting with ethan and call his parents. they said he needed to see a mental health professional within 48 hours, and that they'd follow up to make sure that happened and contact cps if they didn't. the counselor also suggested they take ethan home and stay with him, or take him to work with them, so that he wouldn't be alone. jennifer said no, and then she ended the meeting with "are we done here?" the counselor testified that neither of them acknowledged ethan in the room. he was sitting there for all of it.
i wish the school had searched his backpack, too. i'm sure the counselor thinks about that every day. the parents did not tell them he owned a gun, though.
Absolutely despicable that the defence attorney was permitted to interrupt the prosecution's closing. They've done a fine job throughout and were very professional under the circumstances.
I hope the school is held to account.
Prosecutor also interrupted the defense. Just providing both sides.
That judge is incompetent too!
She looks like she doesn't know what's going on
The prosecution should have used the word 'negligent' after each point they raised.
It’s extremely obvious Jennifer Crumbley is trying to present herself as a good mom, a good person… but she didn’t even pull that off. Her demeanor on the stand was proof of who she really is. Notice EVERYTHING was her Husband’s fault, and she would imply that with a side eye, then directly looking at the jury. One of the most sickening parts, is she honestly wouldn’t have done anything differently. 4 beautiful lives were taken, several others injured and an unexplainable amount of people are forever changed for the worse. She doesn’t care. She didn’t care. I believe she never cared about her son. What a grotesque being. She set a path for this to happen, especially by NOT getting her son IMMEDIATE HELP! GUILTY!!! But she’s the victim in her eyes!
I briefly read Michigan State Law as pertains to student expulsions. It basically indicates that until the student has caused physical harm to fellow students or staff, there is not much the school can lawfully do. Exceptions exist in each school district, but basically appearing to be psychologically unstable is not one of them.
I am in Michigan. That is very true
he testified to that. i think a lot of people didn't watch the entire testimony, based on the odd responses i've seen.
@@zubetpThis discussion was about Jennifer Crumbly’s testimony when she was being questioned by Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald.
James "gave him some pills and told him to suck it up. " Did he give Ethan the Xanax that both parents were taking?
That would explain the hallucinations the shooter was having. Gross negligence
They gave him melatonin.
It was more than likely Xanax not melatonin
no, it was melatonin. but james _thought_ jennifer had given him xanax.
and then he said he was just kidding. 👀
The key point about the Sug Sauer box is that it's not damaged, therefore it was not locked and no cable lock was used. The gun was unsecured and the ammo was right next to it, also unsecured. Prosecutor focused on the dirty room when she should have focused on the empty whiskey bottle. 🤦♂️
The judge ruled that part out so she couldn’t focus in on that
@@latoyajounteabradford4450When it is such a key aspect! Buying an at risk teen already torturing baby birds, obsessed with guns etc & depressed and these parent's choices were to buy him a gun! And ignore all warning signs! Then do everything to cover their own hides!
She probably has mental health issues herself, but she probably doesn't want to admit.
This is a very dangerous case. What we have here is an unreasonable timeline of response. Very sad for the victims and their families. Many prayers for those who experienced this.
Outstanding Closing‼️
(Amidst the annoyance🙄)
I know it is very difficult, but i feel attorneys need to learn how to perform better in front of a jury. It's not just the evidence or the script. The presentation is so important. e.g. the OJ trial
If s person is depressed, u dont grt them a gun, mb Jennifer wanted son gone to hav the problems gone
That prosecutor is such a badass, great closing
If this Mom is found guilty, it is a complete miscarriage of justice. If she is guilty, the school is also guilty.
I think IF the plan was to turn themselves in, Shannon failed them, because seeing she was in contact with them could've and should've been in contact with the District Attorney/Law enforcement, etc. She made this a witch hunt, leaving them to appear as fugitives from justice.
Shannon was in contact with the DA. She stated in argument at the end of the day yesterday that the DA never got back to her.
I'm going to be very curious what the jury comes back with. My biggest gripe was the school being soooooo shocked it was Ethan. As a teacher, I could peg the ones to watch out for right now. I wish they would find her guilty so more parents would be required to get their kids help or gave the consequences. But even the crappiest lawyer I've seen in a long time manages to bring up good points. She calls out the prosecution on leaving out context when they very much did. She mentions that the prosecution's witnesses did not think he was a threat. Yeah he had access to a gun, but that might not even have changed their thoughts. They might only have thought he would kill himself instead of others.
I'm tired of seeing kids not getting help. I wish she would end up guilty, but I won't be surprised if it comes back not guilty.
I have never seen a parent of a violent gang member getting charged with there crimes
So true! And most of their parents actually let those do anything, run the streets all night, killing people, with lengthy criminal records...
If that parent bought the gun and ammo, then left it conveniently located in the presence of a CHILD, and that child committed murder, then yes they should be charged.
But that's not what you meant at all. 🙄💙
Let this be a lesson to all of us,pay attention to your children,if they’re quiet,you need to find out why.You certainly don’t buy them a revolver.She was hoping that could be a babysitter for her so she could have fun with her affair.Her brain was not on her child it was her affair that had allll of her attention and now she’s awake.So sad all the way around,too many lives were ruined because of her actions,She let her son down by not getting him some help.
She just found out the school didn’t even tell the other two times
She is guilty. She could have prevented this horrific incident. She only cared about herself. Her son begged for help. He never got it.
The prosecution did a great job of presenting their case.
she's not selling it for me
Hope the jury finds her guilty. I would if I was on the jury.
I say guilty. Her neglect of her son and blas'e attitude towards her son and the weopon. Horrible
The prosecutor made a valid point why would a 15 year old need to go to a shooting range. He has no business with a firearm, and I would not be surprised if this mom and dad will be made examples for other children who commit this type of crime
I hope that other parents watch this and realize what the possibilities are if they neglect their kids' mental health and cries for help.
Or are not responsible with guns
I been watching this case for the last 3 days. Mom was a lil more concerned than dad but she definitely had the room to be a better mother and person to the victims. .. even if she had back lash i never heard unless missed it her concern or condolences to those children and parents... Before court.
i dunno, in the police station the officers were asking if they knew about any other weapons ethan might own, thinking of the columbine shooters, who had made bombs and placed them around the school (thankfully they failed to detonate). jennifer was relaxed in her chair with open body language, texting the whole time. james was weeping all the while.
james blew him off, but one of them was emotionally affected by what they were hearing and it wasn't jennifer.
I think they made her out to be a monster and she's not people make mistakes in life this is one of her mistakes she took things for granted and now she's going to pay for it hopefully if it's not for the rest of her life I hope they show a little bit of lean and see and mercy
I can appreciate a small amount of sympathy, but I cannot overlook her actions AFTER this tragedy her son caused. Even before she obviously failed him , but after to try and run from the situation just shows me you’re not willing to acknowledge your failures, learn from them, SINCERELY apologize… Try and do better… I am anxiously awaiting her sentence.
NOT guilty. She did PLENTY wrong as a parent, but the elements of Involuntary Manslaughter were not proven IMHO.
Sorry,cannot imagine living with this woman! Lol!
Plus someone is having an affair with her.
I as a substitute teacher found a student looking up guns and it freaked me out!!! as his neighbor I found out he was applying to become a police officer. Teaching these days with classes where the students are to use the computer to do their assignments is super hard! they go to whatever they want the second you are talking to another student its impossible! these counselors are used to these things ..
36:15 Defense attorney interrupting closing is so unprofessional lol 😂. Most annoying lawyer in America
So the state interruption during defense’s closing was ok?
Objections can and do happen during closings.
Not so. If she thinks the prosecutor is arguing outside the evidence, she has a professional duty to object.
@@treva777 Yeah. But she’s not even objecting. She interrupts with a question. The prosecutor was pointing to the box, and she says “I’m sorry, is it the box or the safe?” Both the judge and prosecutor tell her its the box! So she’s wrong. But she keeps interrupting and trying to correct the prosecutor based on her false recall. 😂
Anyone know when the father goes to trial?
Stupid parents are everywhere , all you have to do is look around . There are no good answers.
There is a good answer: make these parents take responsibility, so that other parents will sit up and take notice. DO NOT LEAVE GUNS OR AMMO AROUND CHILDREN EVER.
This could happen to anyone's teenager. If you have ever raised a teen you know it's true. If your child kills someone in a car accident, he stole a bottle of wine from your cellar clearly drunk and speeding he falls asleep at the wheel. You bought him the car the wine was yours are you just as guilty as he is?
My heart breaks for the lives lost and the ones they left behind to grieve. Having said that the guilty party has had his day in court. He will pay for his crime for many years.
To prosecute the parents I feel is wrong. They also will live with this for the rest of their lives.
This issue is very complex. I agree that in most circumstances parents are not held legally responsible for their minor children's actions. What sets this case apart is this teen was demonstrating to his parents and friend, at school very concerning behaviors, asking for help, with no response or action from his parents. I think most parents that recieved an urgent call from school and saw his writings and pictures would take their kid to get help immediately.
They chose to ignore their son's cry for help and instead bought him a gun resulting in the death of others. That is why they are being charged. Far different from kids in gangs etc
They try to make a big deal out of a parent teaching their kid how to shoot when that's how most people learn.
Parents RAN, why, because they knew they were guilty as !!!
"WE TOOK AWAY HIS GUN and the range targets" - case closed. Great admission of 100% gross negligence in the cross examination. Ethan had unrestricted possession of the loaded Sig Sauer - as the image he took of it when his parents were asleep. There was no cable lock on it. Then she tried to say she didn't say that...although we all heard it. Guilty as charged.
Shannon Smith says she will keep her mouth shut during rebuttal, lies again with an interruption, disgrace to the legal profession. She lost this case for the defendant.
Why didn't the parents check his back pack? It was right there in the room with them.
This was a slam dunk from the onset...very simple to me...did her and her husbands GROSS negligence lead to their knowingly mentally struggling son obtaining and using a pistol ( purchased by them) lead to and enable the son to kill 4 people and injur others?
Without a doubt yes.
Wait. She looked for gun BEFORE she knew who the shooter was? That says it all right there.
Is the judge texting.. or m i seeing things towards the end of the prosecuters statement s
Prosecution closing argument sucked. Shannon was a hot mess all trial but the prosecution has the burden of proof and they didn’t meet it imo
At about 1:11:45, you will see the judge looking at the jury and shaking her head, "No," in response to what the prosecutor is saying to them.
Well she should be fired from her job. This judge is just as bad as the defense attorney.
That doesn’t look like that to me. Her head shifts but it doesn’t look to me like she was shaking her head ‘no.’ I think it was just her line of sight and what she was looking at.
Anyone else opinion change after listening to the evidence from both sides?
I was of the mind that this prosecution was reckless - a stretch at best - and now I am sure I would convict if I was on this jury.
I see the broad outlines of the LEGAL arguments to not prosecute the parents but after watching this trial, I think the prosecution had every reason to pursue these parents.
It’s not going to set a dangerous precedent for 2nd amendment rights or even bad parents - it’s pursuing justice gir all those culpable in a serous crime.
I’m a gun owner and wish my fellow owners would THINK beyond the propaganda put forth by special interest groups.
Hear hear
I'm glad I'm not on the jury, I think she's guilty, but I'd have a hard time voting guilty, ugh!
What she said about the counselor and the assistant dean, I feel like agree with it. I don’t like the decisions that they made.
Also, I can’t help but think that when you’re dealing with a student body that large, and you see kids doing strange and disturbing things all the time, it’s hard to blame them for their actions. Educators are experiencing a level of burnout that is unprecedented. There is a growing climate of parents leaving their children’s mental and emotional health in the hands of educators. It’s wrong.
You also have educators who think they know what’s better for your kid than you do. This is the only case where they weee right. The one case they should have taken action and they did not: Schoolsnaeenfaolingnoirnkissnon so many points. Especially this one/
The prossicutiom have nailed it, i was bit 50/50 yesterday but after watching The defense lawyers closing arguments which are horrendous, she keeps referring to herself saying me this and me that, and the fact how the mum not messaging him back was normal as she doesn't mesaged her kids back incase they want her to go through McDonald's??? your going to refer to going through McDonald's , as the same, as a kid who wanted some help before he commited a school shooting??? shes just lost the case for her right there
The school, the bully's should all be held accountable.
After all these school shootings, has there been any studies as to why young kids decide to shoot and kill?
If this Mother of the shooter is found guilty, how many more parents should be held accountable, most of America!
Very good job, Madam Prosecutor!
I don't feel she is a bad person at all and I don't want her to go to jail but I find it hard to believe she didn't question the things he was saying and think for even a split second it could be that he was mentally unwell. Maybe knowing what i know about mental health it all seems obvious to me but I'm struggling to look past her having no thought to that. She said she thought he was being sarcastic but why didn't she even second guess it when he had asked her for help and to go to the doctor. One comment you could ignore but several like that in a short space of time would be difficult for me not to get worried over. I believe her when she says she didnt think he could kill anyone but how could she ignore his change in behaviour with those texts and interactions. Is it even a case of do we believe her or is it a case of that doesn't matter she should have responded to what he was saying more carefully and shared it with her husband. If my child said he or she needed help and at the same time or shortly after described vivid and strange experiences I would want to talk to them about it and take them to see a professional to make sure they were good. She didn't kill anyone but she failed to see fatal mental illness in her own son. And as a result he killed other people when she could have gotten him assessed and therefore diagnosed and treated before all of this tragedy. So sad. I'm afraid I believe she is guilty even though I don't feel she is a bad person at all. She failed to prevent all of this by not taking it seriously and by thinking she was above a medical professional in telling herself he's only "messing about with us". That's where it goes to involuntary manslaughter. I hope she can see where I'm coming from. I hope she does not get a long sentence. She can now learn from this and to everyone watching it is a warning an opportunity to not allow this to happen again. Its a lesson to both her and us all.
Her not acting when she should have is what caused innocent peoples lives to be taken. That's the bottom line. The school also failed when they caught him looking online at bullets. They too could have been charged with the same charge. I'm afraid several people failed this child and the children that died.
I agree! Very well said
So sad the parents didnt take him home and that when they didn't the school could've had him removed under dangerous tendencies!!!!!
The mean thing on both parents the kid wasn't old enough or legally have any gun for the reason he showed. I think with the lawsuits coming their way they are going to lose everything they have anyway. Maybe probation let the victims do rest of punishment.
Guilty.
I don’t like either lawyer. The prosecutor is a B on wheels and the defense is clueless.
This is the worst case I’ve ever seen in terms of lawyer, judges, closing statements. Obviously the parents have culpability but I can’t see a jury convicting them of manslaughter, should maybe have been charged with something else.
It’s heartbreaking. No armed security for government until there’s guards at our schools. Wake up. Why wouldn’t we protect our children. Must be a nefarious reason.
At first I had no idea how they could legally hold the parents accountable. Now there’s no way they can’t find the parents both guilty. The dad needs to just go ahead and plead guilty.
Jenn Crumbley sounds like a narcissist who could’ve cared less if her son offed himself…as if she was almost taunting him to do it. She’s sick.
Fantastic closing argument. Wow,what a mother just a disgusting human being. Poor all the victims and even his son to have a parents like these two. The poor kid didn’t have disant dinner or a clean room.
WHAT IS INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER?
"In the event that the accused caused the death of a person, but lacked the mental state for murder, a charge of involuntary manslaughter may be the result. A charge of unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter requires the prosecution to prove that the accused had caused the death of a person during an unlawful and dangerous act, as was noted by the High Court in Wilson v The Queen (1992) 174 CLR 313.
Involuntary manslaughter may also encompass actions where an accused exercised gross negligence that resulted in the death of a person. Generally speaking, such charges are the result of a death in instances where an accused had failed to act in circumstances where they were bound by legal duty to act, such as a relationship between a parent and child for example."
I don't feel she is a bad person at all and I don't want her to go to jail but I find it hard to believe she didn't question the things he was a aying for him being mentally unwell. Maybe knowing what I do it seemed obvious to me but I'm struggling to look past that. Her saying she thought he was being sarcastic but why didn't she even second guess it when he had asked her for help and to go to the doctor. One comment you could ignore but several like that in q short space of time would be difficult for me not to get worried over. I believe her when she says she didnt think he could kill anyone but how could she ignore his change in behaviour with those texts and interactions. Is it even a case of do we believe her or is it a case of that doesn't matter they should have responded to what he was saying more carefully. If my child said he or she needed help and at the same time or shortly after was describing vivid and strange experiences I would want to talk to them about it and take them to see a professional to make sure they were good. She didn't kill anyone but she failed to see fatal mental illness in her own son. And as a result he killed other people when she could have gotten him assessed and therefore diagnosed and treated before all of this tragedy. So sad. I'm afraid I believe she is guilty even though I don't feel she is a bad person at all. She failed to prevent all of this by not taking it seriously and by thinking she was above a medical professional in telling herself he's only "messing about with us". That's where it goes to involuntary manslaughter. I hope she can see where I'm coming from. I hope she does not get a long sentence. She can now learn from this and to everyone watching it is a warning an opportunity to not allow this to happen again. Its a lesson to both her and us all.
I haven’t watched all the trial but why would the staff at the school allow him to stay that day. That drawing is very concerning. He seems like he was crying out for help.
I can't help but wonder how the district attorney would respond if this was a horror her child created. Would she be making earrings from paper clips? Anyone can critique the actions of any parent in such a horrible situation. How does anyone know how to respond to the worse nightmare of their lives? Many from the school could have stopped this from happening that day. Reality is no one knew. That drawing that the school sent the mother, hours before the shooting, could have prevented this tragedy. Either their all culpable or none are.
If she was the first parent of school shooter to be charged How Would Ahe Know she was going to be arrested ??(no reason to run !!) prosecution's loe/cheat but
Judges and hopefully people of Oakland county fair !!
Guilty!
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY
What a darn shame this is just sad!!
That blond lady is terrible you dont charge parents forbwhat there kid has done
Oh so charge all them people taking kids to gun range to learn safety on guns.. really.. this IS WRONG... SHE DIDN'T THINK HER SON WAS GOING TO DO IT.. if he said over and over im going to kill kids.. maybe then you have a case.. SCHOOL HAS ALL THE POWER BUT PARENTS ARE ALL THE BLAME WHEN SCHOOL ISN'T A SAFE PLACE.. AND WE DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO STOP HIM WHEN WE ARE FORCED BY LAW TO SEND THEM.. think about it.. parents.. 😮
Not Guilty.
Childern are dead and her own child will never have a life because she failed she is not a dumb woman she did not care .
Must be a relative or another lover of hers
Just a person with common sense. You cannot read your teenagers mind. No one would ever be able to forsee their child commiting a school shooting. The Professionals at the school didn't see him as a threat that day.
@@EllsworthJohnson-ui1xm
Not guilty! State did not make their case.
Can’t stand this prosecutor.
Its very conflicting, if it was any other neglectful parent that let their child have access to a gun, but no one used it, it would be fine, happens all the time in the south, the children are generally taught to respect guns at a young age though. (Though casualties still happen) But since her child became a school shooter, she is now being held responsible for his psycho actions. I wouldn’t suggest involuntary manslaughter because I believe he had already been using guns in the past and likely had access to the other guns in the house. If the parents had used a gun safe or trigger lock at home, it would be more likely that he wouldn’t get access and would hopefully get mental help before being able to get access. And yeah, she’s an adulterer and a horse girl and a crude mother, but I would probably give her the lesser charge.
Edit: I see that there was a gun safe but the code was 000 😅…
I AGREE!! I understand she made parenting choices that had dire outcomes but throwing parents in jail for actions of their children is a slippery slope. She should not be criminally accountable for the lives lost in my unprofessional opinion.
@@mangomami2043 just because it is a slippery slope doesnt mean we cant navigate it and let every parent like this get away with what she did decision after decision.
A child is YOUR responsibility, and parents should be afraid their criminal neglect of their children will mean they are held responsible.
if a parent tried their best, than there is nothing to worry about.
She was more than neglectful to her child.
Negligence
It is already a crime in Michigan to allow a minor under the age of 18 to handle firearms when they are not being directly supervised by a licensed gun owner over the age of 21. By failing to secure that weapon properly in the home, these parents were already doing something against the law, even before the state of Michigan passed our recent safe storage law.
Likewise, it is against the law to neglect to get your child proper medical and psychiatric care.
There were times they dosed their son with Xanax that had been prescribed for the parents. So not only were they supplying a controlled substance to someone who had not been prescribed that medication, they were practicing medicine without a license. Two more crimes right there.
This is going back a bit, but it was illegal when they left him home alone when he was eight and nine years old. The neighbor called CPS on them for that.
Had they secured their various firearms properly, 4 kids would still be alive, and their son would not be a murderer spending the rest of his life in prison.
Had they taken him for prompt psychiatric care the day that the school called him down to the office, somebody would've found that gun in his backpack when he got to the ER or the psych intake center. And he might've spent some time in Juvie for the gun charge, but he would've gotten proper psych treatment, and once again, he wouldn't be spending his life in prison. And for 4 other kids would still be alive.
I'm tired of hearing these "slippery slope" arguments defending his parents. This was NOT just a garden-variety rebellious kid whose parents had a hard time controlling him. These were grossly negligent parents.
The State has way too much money and time on their hands.