Wondering what you are inferring here.. is the Judge pro-defense or pro-prosecution? I feel like I have watched her most of the trial and she has been bothered by both sides.
@curiousjo8556 she's implying that the judge is biased to the defense. Without basis. Either way, the state has not met the burden. There are parents on jury not comfortable with Karen mcdonald personal campaign. The trial is too emotional. People not considering the broader consequences. Without intent, imagine all the stuff a parent could get locked up for. It's also very inappropriate the oakland county prosecutor herself handled this case. She wants to grandstand and legislate gun control from the bench. Rather than getting elected to legislature and changing laws. It's just like begging the jury, just trust us. For the kidd. While ignoring the Oxford school colossal fuck ups. Blame only the parents, protect the govt from lawsuits. And a whole line of mental health changes, gun laws, etc, red flag lists, rather than enforce the laws and school disciplinary regulations that already exist and were ignored and covered up by immunity
It's called your JOB. Mental health issues are widespread. Sick and crazy child? What a fucked up thing to say. We pay tax dollars on special education to FILL THE NEEDS OF THE STUDENTS. They broke their own procedures. Beyond ignorant.
@@rainyday13 I was raised by a mother who cared more about herself than me and it’s a lonely place to be. Especially at that age. And having to go to school every day and put on a face for all the other bright and shiny kids and their happy lives when mine was so miserable was even harder. It’s absolutely horrific what he did. I was picturing some hate filled psycho until I watched this. He was basically begging for someone to stop him. They all lost their lives that day, his included. It was preventable.
I agree about that day. Never let anger let you neglect your kid. They should have checked the back pack. I would have taken my kid to a psych hospital right away!
the most thing that makes me feel not sorry for mom even if she gets ten years is that.......she allowed him to have guns even thou she knew he was mentally disturbed!!! the last thing a parent wud do to a mentally disturbed child is to give him a....gun. smh
How many school shootings have to happen before a parent stops thinking my withdrawn, depressed son writing fatalistic things on a math paper with access to a weapon isn’t going to do something tragic???
I was almost on the mom's side but if you look up Ethan's journal entries and texts to his friend about animal torture and all that, how does a mom who is close with her son miss those huge red flags. He literally had decapitated animals in his room and the parents supposedly never knew
It is possible to not know these things. I think the fact that the parents were not aware of a lot of things, including his personal journal, is a reflection of how kids are parented these days. If they are going to be convicted, so should every parent who does not monitor their kids, social media, cell phone, and read their personal journals When their kids are involved in bullying. This is a dangerous president to start, because those of you in the peanut gallery who have already convicted this mother, will one day be sitting in a courtroom, as a defendant when your kid, or kids, make a horrible decision, or decisions! This case is setting a dangerous precedent!! I'm willing to bet that there are several on this thread, who our parents who don't monitor what your kids are doing on their devices, while playing video games, or with their friends. Also, those same parents allow their children to speak to them any kind of way, and curse at them. Discipline, discipline is a thing of the past. Too many parents are friends to their kids, instead of the adults and the relationship.yet, you stand in judgment of this mother, who has been villainized for the actions of her son.
I definitely agree with you and I'm so glad I'm not on the jury for this case. I ultimately believe this all falls upon the schools negligence and I have first hand experience being a former OHS student. One of the victims actually lives in my childhood home there in Oxford and at the time I had two brothers in High School. On one side I feel like the parents messed up but the kid hid his derranged side well but then if my dog went and killed 4kids I'd be held accountable. I think parents today are so entitled and nobody owns up to their crappy parenting and I'm a parent as well but I keep an eye on my kids and their devices because ultimately it's my name on the account and they're a lot younger. I do know they took terrible care of their great Pyrenees...
I never would have dreamed that I could laugh while listening at such a serious closing. When she slammed the defendant because she didn't hug her fifteen year old son in public, I roared.
Are u kidding the defense was a nite mare anit no way in hell that defense Gina ever get any clients she rude yeah it probably will because of her and the judge not because of her closing because she ridiculous talking about a singer and dumb stuff ur weirdo do think it because I think her and judge are together on this not for the dum closed and her voice is annoying
It troubles me the shooter was sentenced as an adult, yet now, his parents are held responsible too? Its an over reach, you cany have it both ways. I call hung jury. Tragic situation.
The defence's argument is more believable no one could've foresaw this happening and the parents were negligent doesn't mean that they should go to prison.
Not to be rude but she had her mind elsewhere. Swinging, horses booze pills !!She could have help her son! He expresses his pain!!! Mentally ... and she ignored him
The prosecution had this opportunity to really go for it in this trial on Jennifer and they should of objected to the defence stupid arguments I don't understand why the prosecution team is sleeping ,I don't think they did a good closing argument . I think the prosecution is going to cause this to be a mistrial she's basically saying we can't accuse Jennifer of this ABCD then what's the point of having this trial. If it's not your job then why are you prosecuting this lady leave that up to God! She's only guilty of being a neglectful mum to a teenager they didn't wanna parent no more ,guilty for being self-centred and selfish . This is going to be a mistrial.
I think the judge and defense are together I never seen a judge let a defense act like that and she did nothing I ask are the judge or defense new because both was horrible I don’t if it like trying to get a not guilty don’t but both them look sneaky I hope the state report the defense and the judge they both was horrible the judge allowed the defense to talk be rude to in front of jurors it crazy I hope the state reports them
@@iveliserojas612, I’ve never seen an attorney so rude and abrupt in all my years of watching court cases . I didn’t pay much attention to the judge’s demeanour but , I saw very little of her reining in the behaviour of the defense attorney .
In order for the prosecution to meet this burden of proof, they’d have to prove this was foreseeable, which it was not! Not by mom, dad, school counselor, disciplinarian or by the principal. They keep saying, “They told her to” but she didn’t get this young man help but they told her THAT day. They told her they were concerned he had suicidal or hopeless feelings - not to be confused with homicidal feelings. The shooting happened immediately thereafter. Yes, his grandmother died. Yes, his friend moved away but his grades didn’t plummet. He continued to work and to attend school. Where were the outward signs? He spent a lot of time with his parents. She did check in on him and her husband. She also was supporting a home financially and yes, caring for horses. Moreover, and because the disciplinarian brought this to light - the community of kids had guns. They came to school on Wednesdays after hunting. They took prom photos holding their guns. You cannot make this kid having a gun that like those other kids, his parents bought - the very reason he did this. This kid was going to do this be it that day or a day years from now. The mom is right - presented with the same things, she and most would still do the same because what she never saw coming was a mass homicide. You don’t have to like her or her morality but neither she nor dad had a foreseeable inkling this would happen.
It was foreseeable and the proof is she texted to someone she was afraid something bad was going to happen. Also, her boyfriend told her to lock up the gun because her son was in a bad place.
This is a no brainer. The mom was a danger to the kid. All ignoring the many many signs. Its exactly like giving alcohol to your underage age kid and send him off to drive and sit behind the wheels. What is negligence?
They hardly have to prove anything. Selfish, irresponsible parent with no time for her own son gives him a firearm as a gift knowing its illegal for a child to own one, not only that, child has mental health issues and she fails to secure the gun and child takes it to school and guns down innocent kids. Mother withheld important information from the school which would have changed the course of events and 4 teens would still be alive. Mother is guilty as hell
Prosecuting attorneys are typically dishonest, deceptive, and willing to do anything to win a case. Remember, prosecutors have to win a certain percentage of cases to keep their jobs. I was the foreperson for an attempted murder trial. I witnessed the prosecutors speaking to witnesses during break, and coaching them on how to lie. I also was approached after the fact by one of the detectives who asked me how far we were from a guilty verdict, versus the Hung jury that occurred? He waited for me at night time, by my vehicle, which was a bit creepy. I realized that he had been watching me. Also, I took detailed notes. When we left for break, my notes were missing when we returned. The only ones remaining in the courtroom when we were dismissed, was the prosecutor, and a deputy. We were not permitted to take anything from the jury box when we were dismissed, until we were sent to deliberate. The comment made to me by the detective, waiting for me, Crouch down by my vehicle after the trial concluded, said "so, what is your opinion of the justice system? I guess you see for yourself, that the truth, is not always the truth, huh? " What he was telling me, was that people, including officers, lawyers, etc. get on the stand all the time, and swear to tell the truth, only to end up, lying to convict, someone, or to protect someone else. I actually feel sorry for this mother, because I believe she, too, is a victim, was slut, shamed, and treated as if she pulled the trigger herself. the idea that she has been in jail since 2021, only allowed out one hour a day is cruel, and unusual punishment in my opinion. There were other options such as an ankle, monitor, and house arrest, instead of keeping her in jail for over two years. They even showed grace to the terrace from 1/6 who were allowed to go home, and there are equally deplorable releases, and real threats to society who have been granted bail, and also permitted to select when they turn themselves in. I also happen to think that there are socioeconomic implications in this case. I believe they are perceived as trash by the prosecution, and treated as such. She should be acquitted!!!
@@leahwilfahrt12 you are definitely entitled to your opinion. I take no offense. I standby my position, having spent over 20 years of my profession in court rooms. I also was a jury foreperson for an attempted murder trial, and witnessed the prosecutor telling witnesses during a break telling a group of six witnesses to get on the stand and lie. This was during a break while we were in the hallway of the court room. Once the prosecutor saw me, I heard him tell the witnesses "we need to stop talking because one of the jurors is sitting over there." The same prosecutor stole my notes from my seat in the jury box while we were on break. The reason I know he stole my notes is because he was the last person in the courtroom when the judge called for a break. After the trial was over, and ended in a hung jury, thanks to me, and one other juror, a detective who was undercover who I knew, was lying on the stand, was waiting for me by a vehicle parked next to me at 2 AM in the morning. He was crouched down by the vehicle next to me. Once I got in my vehicle, and started it, he stood up, and tapped on my drivers side window. The detective asked me how far away we were from a conviction? I did not tell him. The creepy part was that the detective had apparently been following me to see what vehicle I was driving. I saw him repeatedly talking to the prosecutor over the course of the trial, during breaks. The detective asked me what my opinion was of the criminal justice system, after participating as a juror? I told him I had yet to process what I had experienced. He then said, "I guess you see that the truth is not always the truth." I was shocked because what he was telling me was that he, along with the prosecutors and others lied on the witness stand. This encounter, plus what I witnessed with the prosecutor and witnesses, coupled with the bullying, that jurors engaged, and, finally convincing other jurors to change their verdict from not guilty, to guilty, made me vow that I would never serve on a jury again. My profession involved the ability to assess individuals at a very high level. I had a very strong gift of discernment, and integrity, and my conscience forced me to write the judge a letter, and share with him what occurred in the jury deliberation room. My honesty resulted in The prosecution, not trying this case again. Although I did not tell the judge what occurred with the prosecutor, or the detective, I will forever be grateful for saving that man over three decades in prison. In addition, if the prosecution believed that they had a case that they could win, they would have tried it again . I would respectfully (not being facetious.) suggest that you research the number of individuals that have been wrongly convicted, including those who were prosecuted for crimes, when it was KNOWN that they were innocent. Start in the 1900s. Research George Stinney Jr., a 14-year-old boy, weighing 90 pounds, who was electrocuted in South Carolina for murders he did not commit. In 2023 alone, over 3000 people were wrongfully convicted for crimes they did not commit. That is a very large number of people,who in many instances spent decades in prison, and there was proven acts of prosecutorial misconduct. The cases are endless, profound, and absolutely sad. A lot of people believe that prosecutors are always justified in the cases they choose to pursue, and because they said something happened, it is the truth. Too many people are convicted by the public before they have been tried & some of those people get on juries, knowing they have already formulated an opinion, that evidence to the contrary won't change. It is actually guilty until proven innocent, instead of the opposite, despite what the law says. I respectfully stand by my statement. I am not implying that every single prosecutor fits this description, however, there are far too many who do, and in order to get reelected, or keep their jobs, they will do anything. There are also some absolutely fantastic prosecutors, who 100% live by the oath that they swear to uphold.
Ok....the night of the shooting they are already aware they are getting charged so they run? How did they become aware of that so quickly? Nothing was investigated much by that point.
What parent buys their children a gun at fourteen and fifteen , sixteen or teens, years old. Some are too immature even after that age and through their twenties,
Even young people from seventeen to thirty Some of them should never have a gun. yes lot are the age to be in the service. But when they're in the service, they are trained with these guns and how to use them when and where.
I don't have any answers, just questions. What can done to stop shootings in our country? Maybe holding parent's responsible is one way. Maybe keeping guns out of reach, locked, and in a safe will help. I don't know if she is innocent or guilty. I don't know who's right or wrong, but I know too many people in our country die by gun violence.
More people are murdered in the US with knives, hands fists and feet than by homicide with a firearm. A firearm by itself does not act violently, the human actor is responsible. You are falling for the narrative. What do you propose we do about knife violence or hands fists and feet violence?
Amen. That’s what I keep saying. Would those four kids still be here if Ethan didn’t have a gun given to him as a gift or if his parents were responsible enough to keep it LOCKED
One more comment, how could anyone parentt Go back to work after what happened to those students at that school being shot, killed and Terrified. Much less the parents of the student that was the shooter.
@@loopy1159thankppl saying she be found not guilty yeah because of her and dum defense and judge acting so un professional of course not because of her closing or she good defense it was ridiculous I hope the state goes after both judge and defense to be yelling in front of of the jurors and judge didn’t put order to her court allowing crazy to be loud of course not because she got she loud Rude and judge is dum so yeah not because she good defense she horrible and judge allowed it so I hope the STATE Go after her and judge both un professional
So if a parent buys his kid a car and the kid goes and kills someone with that car because he was driving recklessly after having a fight with his parents, is that the parents' fault too?
Its difficult to prove she was negligent in a state that allows these kids to have guns & is a hunter season community. Mom was drinking..taking anxiety meds & cheating. Even with txts from son, he seemed fine on Thanksgiving, clearly drinking , being defiant, puberty, hormones, looking for attention probably confused and angry, focusing on the things he wanted. Parents go through so much with their kids and sadly you don't think they're going to kill. He killed these beautiful kids who were good kids .. Innocent kids... Jealousy? Maybe wanted to be like them? Why THAT gun? Obviously they had other guns. This was planned but even though the parents were ignoring their teen... JC thought he was suicidal which concerns me too no therapist appt? Did she mention to HER Therapist? No bcuz she used online doc but also concerns me that the school didn't address his demeanor and lack of schoolwork , participation, etc. I cannot sympathize for the pain these victims parents are feeling and I believe there's A LOT more negligence from the school who didn't report this or check back pack and defense Atty seems like its her first high profile case, looks like she has a seizure disorder or anxiety disorder & disorganized although so many ppl are upset, insulting and fighting is not professional nor is it necessary. Bottom line, even if they took him home that day, he would've done it another day as he was planning it for some time. More charges to come? Very necessary. RIP Hana , Madison, Justin & Tate. My prayers are with the victims family. Im so sorry this mom has never showed no sympathy and her and her Atty has been so insensitive. My deepest condolences.🙏💔😞✊🙏💔😞✊
The school was supposed to make the parents take him home or call ambulace for him...I think personnel at the school should be prosecuted, they failed him and all the victims. Yes, the parents missed some red flags and made mistakes, but charging the parents is ridiculous
Don’t blame the school. They can’t make people be good parents. They can’t make you take your kid home or to a doctor. She didn’t even acknowledge him in that meeting.
I've said this since she started talking about the parents role the day of the shooting. Who does that before they have even been able to start an investigation beyond permanent preliminary interviews?
Based on the judge's facial expressions, im glad they have a jury deciding
I couldn’t agree more. What a complete disgrace this judge has been during this trial.
Hung jury. They did not prove the elements of the crime, and the school shares much responsibility
Wondering what you are inferring here.. is the Judge pro-defense or pro-prosecution? I feel like I have watched her most of the trial and she has been bothered by both sides.
@curiousjo8556 she's implying that the judge is biased to the defense. Without basis. Either way, the state has not met the burden. There are parents on jury not comfortable with Karen mcdonald personal campaign.
The trial is too emotional. People not considering the broader consequences. Without intent, imagine all the stuff a parent could get locked up for.
It's also very inappropriate the oakland county prosecutor herself handled this case. She wants to grandstand and legislate gun control from the bench. Rather than getting elected to legislature and changing laws.
It's just like begging the jury, just trust us. For the kidd.
While ignoring the Oxford school colossal fuck ups. Blame only the parents, protect the govt from lawsuits.
And a whole line of mental health changes, gun laws, etc, red flag lists, rather than enforce the laws and school disciplinary regulations that already exist and were ignored and covered up by immunity
@curiousjo8556 the school had the final opportunity to avoid the tragedy.
She had enough money to spend on the horses but not money to spend on their child’s mental health. 😡😡😡
There is a lack of Mental health professionals across the country.
@@FOXYNYLAthey’re harder to get appts when you don’t call. This was also mid-covid & online help was easily accessible.
Agree
exactly..that hit me over and over again !
Horses are expensive too.
You can’t expect the school to fill in the needs for your sick and crazy child! What a stupid expectation!
It's called your JOB. Mental health issues are widespread. Sick and crazy child? What a fucked up thing to say.
We pay tax dollars on special education to FILL THE NEEDS OF THE STUDENTS. They broke their own procedures.
Beyond ignorant.
It's the Hillary Clinton motto "it takes a village " on display.
Its even a more stupid expectation to believe Parents can control their children´s thoughts and minds.
This was a slam dunk case of negligence. No need to invent the wheel again
This kid needed a long term psychiatric help. Maybe over 5 years. How could they act like he was normal.
Jennifer seemed pretty screwed up herself !!!
Makes me feel so bad for her son. Practically screaming and they wouldn’t hear him.
You're a very empathetic person if you can feel bad for the shooter.
@@rainyday13 I was raised by a mother who cared more about herself than me and it’s a lonely place to be. Especially at that age. And having to go to school every day and put on a face for all the other bright and shiny kids and their happy lives when mine was so miserable was even harder. It’s absolutely horrific what he did. I was picturing some hate filled psycho until I watched this. He was basically begging for someone to stop him. They all lost their lives that day, his included. It was preventable.
YES! HE knew that he was Deeply disturbed! He basically Begged for help from his parents !!!
I agree about that day. Never let anger let you neglect your kid. They should have checked the back pack. I would have taken my kid to a psych hospital right away!
Parenting Fail. Missed/Ignored ALL the signs. The ultimate criminal childhood trauma. Parents be Parents!
Well said!
Guilty
“ I wouldn’t do anything different “ !
That’s a damming statement to make after all the evidence before her 🤦🏽♀️ !
THAT was Unbelievable to hear! I KNEW she would be found guilty after I heard her say That !
the most thing that makes me feel not sorry for mom even if she gets ten years is that.......she allowed him to have guns even thou she knew he was mentally disturbed!!! the last thing a parent wud do to a mentally disturbed child is to give him a....gun. smh
How many school shootings have to happen before a parent stops thinking my withdrawn, depressed son writing fatalistic things on a math paper with access to a weapon isn’t going to do something tragic???
She started faking it the minute she started to run away!
Incredible gross negligence to her son, which then caused this horrendous tragedy.
“I would NOT do anything different”- Jennifer Crumbly
So guilty
The defense is so dumb
The judge appears to me to be immature..... weirdest judge I have ever seen !
Hoping for Guilty plea
I was almost on the mom's side but if you look up Ethan's journal entries and texts to his friend about animal torture and all that, how does a mom who is close with her son miss those huge red flags. He literally had decapitated animals in his room and the parents supposedly never knew
It is possible to not know these things. I think the fact that the parents were not aware of a lot of things, including his personal journal, is a reflection of how kids are parented these days. If they are going to be convicted, so should every parent who does not monitor their kids, social media, cell phone, and read their personal journals When their kids are involved in bullying. This is a dangerous president to start, because those of you in the peanut gallery who have already convicted this mother, will one day be sitting in a courtroom, as a defendant when your kid, or kids, make a horrible decision, or decisions! This case is setting a dangerous precedent!!
I'm willing to bet that there are several on this thread, who our parents who don't monitor what your kids are doing on their devices, while playing video games, or with their friends. Also, those same parents allow their children to speak to them any kind of way, and curse at them. Discipline, discipline is a thing of the past. Too many parents are friends to their kids, instead of the adults and the relationship.yet, you stand in judgment of this mother, who has been villainized for the actions of her son.
@@jamespeek8682how do you not even bother to put your kid on your Life360 acct? To actively not give a crap where he was at at any given time?
I definitely agree with you and I'm so glad I'm not on the jury for this case. I ultimately believe this all falls upon the schools negligence and I have first hand experience being a former OHS student. One of the victims actually lives in my childhood home there in Oxford and at the time I had two brothers in High School. On one side I feel like the parents messed up but the kid hid his derranged side well but then if my dog went and killed 4kids I'd be held accountable. I think parents today are so entitled and nobody owns up to their crappy parenting and I'm a parent as well but I keep an eye on my kids and their devices because ultimately it's my name on the account and they're a lot younger. I do know they took terrible care of their great Pyrenees...
@@jamespeek8682but yet you speak of how parents decides to be friends instead of parenting, discipline etc but u take her side 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
@@jamespeek8682 I agree 100%.
I never would have dreamed that I could laugh while listening at such a serious closing. When she slammed the defendant because she didn't hug her fifteen year old son in public, I roared.
She was like I'm not going to make this long.... a hour later..
Reasonably foreseeable. Theres too much reasonable doubt.
What?
Although defense counsel was annoying throughout the trial, her closing was outstanding. I think there will be an acquittal.
Outstanding oh dear me
@@loopy1159 you don’t think? 😄
Are u kidding the defense was a nite mare anit no way in hell that defense Gina ever get any clients she rude yeah it probably will because of her and the judge not because of her closing because she ridiculous talking about a singer and dumb stuff ur weirdo do think it because I think her and judge are together on this not for the dum closed and her voice is annoying
I'm thinking guilty... we shall see
@@joannefalzone6115 you were correct. I guess daddy Crumbley better take a plea deal, if any 🫤
It troubles me the shooter was sentenced as an adult, yet now, his parents are held responsible too?
Its an over reach, you cany have it both ways. I call hung jury.
Tragic situation.
Every hand gun needs/should have a lock that comes with/when purchasing a gun
The defence's argument is more believable no one could've foresaw this happening and the parents were negligent doesn't mean that they should go to prison.
Did you not see the drawings of the guns and the journal entries Ethan made?
Why are the parents of previous school shooters not on trial as well?
You might as well ask why aren’t any parents on trial for their children’s crimes 🙄 !
It's not that hard. Just use ya brain
I like your comment. This case may change that
@@carleyerichsen864,
The root of the problem isn’t the gun . It’s who has access to it ✌🏽 !
@@Theresa89 That is a good thought. Every person is responsible for their actions
judge looks like she is starting to doze off during prosc. closing arguments.
When he brung in the Ouija board to his house the devil 👿 was with him
Right?
Parents wake up if they go after her for something her child did, don't think they won't come after you.
As they should if you’re as stupid and narcissistic as this woman. She did everything wrong.
Maybe that will mean parents understand and be more aware
You understand how negligence works?
I dont think A LOT of people on here do.@@christineleifer5102
Not to be rude but she had her mind elsewhere. Swinging, horses booze pills !!She could have help her son! He expresses his pain!!! Mentally ... and she ignored him
The prosecution had this opportunity to really go for it in this trial on Jennifer and they should of objected to the defence stupid arguments I don't understand why the prosecution team is sleeping ,I don't think they did a good closing argument . I think the prosecution is going to cause this to be a mistrial she's basically saying we can't accuse Jennifer of this ABCD then what's the point of having this trial. If it's not your job then why are you prosecuting this lady leave that up to God!
She's only guilty of being a neglectful mum to a teenager they didn't wanna parent no more ,guilty for being self-centred and selfish . This is going to be a mistrial.
If u watch that pretend judge she constantly gives looks to the defence like shes trying to give her signals to interject
I think the judge and defense are together I never seen a judge let a defense act like that and she did nothing I ask are the judge or defense new because both was horrible I don’t if it like trying to get a not guilty don’t but both them look sneaky I hope the state report the defense and the judge they both was horrible the judge allowed the defense to talk be rude to in front of jurors it crazy I hope the state reports them
@@iveliserojas612,
I’ve never seen an attorney so rude and abrupt in all my years of watching court cases . I didn’t pay much attention to the judge’s demeanour but , I saw very little of her reining in the behaviour of the defense attorney .
They all work together, live in the same bougie neighborhood, and drinking coffee bar together when the trials over with.
@@FOXYNYLA totally
In order for the prosecution to meet this burden of proof, they’d have to prove this was foreseeable, which it was not! Not by mom, dad, school counselor, disciplinarian or by the principal.
They keep saying, “They told her to” but she didn’t get this young man help but they told her THAT day. They told her they were concerned he had suicidal or hopeless feelings - not to be confused with homicidal feelings. The shooting happened immediately thereafter.
Yes, his grandmother died. Yes, his friend moved away but his grades didn’t plummet. He continued to work and to attend school. Where were the outward signs?
He spent a lot of time with his parents. She did check in on him and her husband. She also was supporting a home financially and yes, caring for horses.
Moreover, and because the disciplinarian brought this to light - the community of kids had guns. They came to school on Wednesdays after hunting. They took prom photos holding their guns. You cannot make this kid having a gun that like those other kids, his parents bought - the very reason he did this.
This kid was going to do this be it that day or a day years from now.
The mom is right - presented with the same things, she and most would still do the same because what she never saw coming was a mass homicide.
You don’t have to like her or her morality but neither she nor dad had a foreseeable inkling this would happen.
Ummm. Go back and listen to the evidence. This mother did anything but spend time with her son
I completely AGREE!! @symmc8600
It was foreseeable and the proof is she texted to someone she was afraid something bad was going to happen. Also, her boyfriend told her to lock up the gun because her son was in a bad place.
This is a no brainer. The mom was a danger to the kid. All ignoring the many many signs. Its exactly like giving alcohol to your underage age kid and send him off to drive and sit behind the wheels. What is negligence?
They hardly have to prove anything. Selfish, irresponsible parent with no time for her own son gives him a firearm as a gift knowing its illegal for a child to own one, not only that, child has mental health issues and she fails to secure the gun and child takes it to school and guns down innocent kids. Mother withheld important information from the school which would have changed the course of events and 4 teens would still be alive. Mother is guilty as hell
Both prosecuting attorneys are _so_ damn strong. I watched these entire court proceedings, and I would find her guilty with no hesitation.
Prosecuting attorneys are typically dishonest, deceptive, and willing to do anything to win a case. Remember, prosecutors have to win a certain percentage of cases to keep their jobs.
I was the foreperson for an attempted murder trial. I witnessed the prosecutors speaking to witnesses during break, and coaching them on how to lie. I also was approached after the fact by one of the detectives who asked me how far we were from a guilty verdict, versus the Hung jury that occurred? He waited for me at night time, by my vehicle, which was a bit creepy. I realized that he had been watching me. Also, I took detailed notes. When we left for break, my notes were missing when we returned. The only ones remaining in the courtroom when we were dismissed, was the prosecutor, and a deputy.
We were not permitted to take anything from the jury box when we were dismissed, until we were sent to deliberate.
The comment made to me by the detective, waiting for me, Crouch down by my vehicle after the trial concluded, said "so, what is your opinion of the justice system? I guess you see for yourself, that the truth, is not always the truth, huh? "
What he was telling me, was that people, including officers, lawyers, etc. get on the stand all the time, and swear to tell the truth, only to end up, lying to convict, someone, or to protect someone else.
I actually feel sorry for this mother, because I believe she, too, is a victim, was slut, shamed, and treated as if she pulled the trigger herself. the idea that she has been in jail since 2021, only allowed out one hour a day is cruel, and unusual punishment in my opinion. There were other options such as an ankle, monitor, and house arrest, instead of keeping her in jail for over two years.
They even showed grace to the terrace from 1/6 who were allowed to go home, and there are equally deplorable releases, and real threats to society who have been granted bail, and also permitted to select when they turn themselves in. I also happen to think that there are socioeconomic implications in this case. I believe they are perceived as trash by the prosecution, and treated as such. She should be acquitted!!!
I respectfully disagree with you.
I have to disagree with you as well, respectfully, of course.
@@leahwilfahrt12 you are definitely entitled to your opinion. I take no offense. I standby my position, having spent over 20 years of my profession in court rooms. I also was a jury foreperson for an attempted murder trial, and witnessed the prosecutor telling witnesses during a break telling a group of six witnesses to get on the stand and lie. This was during a break while we were in the hallway of the court room.
Once the prosecutor saw me, I heard him tell the witnesses "we need to stop talking because one of the jurors is sitting over there." The same prosecutor stole my notes from my seat in the jury box while we were on break. The reason I know he stole my notes is because he was the last person in the courtroom when the judge called for a break.
After the trial was over, and ended in a hung jury, thanks to me, and one other juror, a detective who was undercover who I knew, was lying on the stand, was waiting for me by a vehicle parked next to me at 2 AM in the morning. He was crouched down by the vehicle next to me. Once I got in my vehicle, and started it, he stood up, and tapped on my drivers side window.
The detective asked me how far away we were from a conviction? I did not tell him. The creepy part was that the detective had apparently been following me to see what vehicle I was driving. I saw him repeatedly talking to the prosecutor over the course of the trial, during breaks. The detective asked me what my opinion was of the criminal justice system, after participating as a juror? I told him I had yet to process what I had experienced. He then said, "I guess you see that the truth is not always the truth." I was shocked because what he was telling me was that he, along with the prosecutors and others lied on the witness stand. This encounter, plus what I witnessed with the prosecutor and witnesses, coupled with the bullying, that jurors engaged, and, finally convincing other jurors to change their verdict from not guilty, to guilty, made me vow that I would never serve on a jury again.
My profession involved the ability to assess individuals at a very high level. I had a very strong gift of discernment, and integrity, and my conscience forced me to write the judge a letter, and share with him what occurred in the jury deliberation room. My honesty resulted in The prosecution, not trying this case again. Although I did not tell the judge what occurred with the prosecutor, or the detective, I will forever be grateful for saving that man over three decades in prison. In addition, if the prosecution believed that they had a case that they could win, they would have tried it again .
I would respectfully (not being facetious.) suggest that you research the number of individuals that have been wrongly convicted, including those who were prosecuted for crimes, when it was KNOWN that they were innocent. Start in the 1900s. Research George Stinney Jr., a 14-year-old boy, weighing 90 pounds, who was electrocuted in South Carolina for murders he did not commit. In 2023 alone, over 3000 people were wrongfully convicted for crimes they did not commit. That is a very large number of people,who in many instances spent decades in prison, and there was proven acts of prosecutorial misconduct. The cases are endless, profound, and absolutely sad.
A lot of people believe that prosecutors are always justified in the cases they choose to pursue, and because they said something happened, it is the truth. Too many people are convicted by the public before they have been tried & some of those people get on juries, knowing they have already formulated an opinion, that evidence to the contrary won't change.
It is actually guilty until proven innocent, instead of the opposite, despite what the law says.
I respectfully stand by my statement. I am not implying that every single prosecutor fits this description, however, there are far too many who do, and in order to get reelected, or keep their jobs, they will do anything. There are also some absolutely fantastic prosecutors, who 100% live by the oath that they swear to uphold.
@@Teresa-Anne I respectfully stand by my prior statement, and have responded to the individual whose comment you agreed with.
Jennifer was getting away with a lot of small crimes for a while; but one thing and that’s the mental illness of the kid got her at last!
Quilty....
Ok....the night of the shooting they are already aware they are getting charged so they run? How did they become aware of that so quickly? Nothing was investigated much by that point.
What parent buys their children a gun at fourteen and fifteen , sixteen or teens, years old. Some are too immature even after that age and through their twenties,
hunters, that's who
Not guilty
Even young people from seventeen to thirty Some of them should never have a gun. yes lot are the age to be in the service. But when they're in the service, they are trained with these guns and how to use them when and where.
Her name fits her , thats for sure 😂
I don't have any answers, just questions. What can done to stop shootings in our country? Maybe holding parent's responsible is one way. Maybe keeping guns out of reach, locked, and in a safe will help. I don't know if she is innocent or guilty. I don't know who's right or wrong, but I know too many people in our country die by gun violence.
More people are murdered in the US with knives, hands fists and feet than by homicide with a firearm. A firearm by itself does not act violently, the human actor is responsible. You are falling for the narrative. What do you propose we do about knife violence or hands fists and feet violence?
@@mv3029 At one time those statistics were true, but not anymore. Look at more recent FBI statistics.
Amen. That’s what I keep saying.
Would those four kids still be here if Ethan didn’t have a gun given to him as a gift or if his parents were responsible enough to keep it LOCKED
One more comment, how could anyone parentt Go back to work after what happened to those students at that school being shot, killed and
Terrified. Much less the parents of the student that was the shooter.
Bet money ~ NOT GUILTY! They overcharged here. They dealt more with her lifestyle than the matter at hand. Prayers for the families who lost kids....
Well they were saying she was neglectful she had plenty of time for sex in car parks and horses but none for her son.
No hard
@@loopy1159thankppl saying she be found not guilty yeah because of her and dum defense and judge acting so un professional of course not because of her closing or she good defense it was ridiculous I hope the state goes after both judge and defense to be yelling in front of of the jurors and judge didn’t put order to her court allowing crazy to be loud of course not because she got she loud Rude and judge is dum so yeah not because she good defense she horrible and judge allowed it so I hope the STATE Go after her and judge both un professional
I believe it will be a mis trail but I hope the state get a better judge and defense because those two are work together both probably gay
Hopefully you didn’t bet any money
@@kctj429 I know right. Nobody took the bet
NOT. GUILTY.
So if a parent buys his kid a car and the kid goes and kills someone with that car because he was driving recklessly after having a fight with his parents, is that the parents' fault too?
Was the kiling intentional? This was. Are cars illegal to own if your of age to drive? Guns are not legal for 15 year Olds. Apples and oranges
Really? Omg! Re watch the trial. She WAS GUILTY next is HUBBY! THEY both dropped the ball on their ONLY KID! TERRIBLY
The P was annoying and rude during the trail they have nothing and the crap they have is totally taken out of context!
Not guilty at all ! !
Guilty
Its difficult to prove she was negligent in a state that allows these kids to have guns & is a hunter season community. Mom was drinking..taking anxiety meds & cheating. Even with txts from son, he seemed fine on Thanksgiving, clearly drinking , being defiant, puberty, hormones, looking for attention probably confused and angry, focusing on the things he wanted. Parents go through so much with their kids and sadly you don't think they're going to kill. He killed these beautiful kids who were good kids .. Innocent kids... Jealousy? Maybe wanted to be like them? Why THAT gun? Obviously they had other guns. This was planned but even though the parents were ignoring their teen... JC thought he was suicidal which concerns me too no therapist appt? Did she mention to HER Therapist? No bcuz she used online doc but also concerns me that the school didn't address his demeanor and lack of schoolwork , participation, etc. I cannot sympathize for the pain these victims parents are feeling and I believe there's A LOT more negligence from the school who didn't report this or check back pack and defense Atty seems like its her first high profile case, looks like she has a seizure disorder or anxiety disorder & disorganized although so many ppl are upset, insulting and fighting is not professional nor is it necessary. Bottom line, even if they took him home that day, he would've done it another day as he was planning it for some time. More charges to come? Very necessary. RIP Hana , Madison, Justin & Tate. My prayers are with the victims family. Im so sorry this mom has never showed no sympathy and her and her Atty has been so insensitive. My deepest condolences.🙏💔😞✊🙏💔😞✊
i think most judges are narcissist psychopaths 😅
The school was supposed to make the parents take him home or call ambulace for him...I think personnel at the school should be prosecuted, they failed him and all the victims. Yes, the parents missed some red flags and made mistakes, but charging the parents is ridiculous
Don’t blame the school. They can’t make people be good parents. They can’t make you take your kid home or to a doctor. She didn’t even acknowledge him in that meeting.
Great prosecutor - and sexy too.
Really
Not Guilty. Karen McDonald is prosecuting the parents for political noteriety and her ego.
Oh your a nutter
No wonder there so much gun violence
slaughtering of children .
Cos u are brainless
Oh your a nut job
Thank you!!!
I've said this since she started talking about the parents role the day of the shooting. Who does that before they have even been able to start an investigation beyond permanent preliminary interviews?
100%.
I have so much respect for Karen. Her dedication to the Truth has been outstanding
The prosecution's case is WEAK.