Full testimony: Horse farm owner questioned at trial of Oxford shooter's mother
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2024
- Kira Pennock, the owner of a horse farm in Oakland County, took the stand Monday in the trial for the mother of the Oxford High School shooter. The mother, who has been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, kept her family's horses at Pennock's facility, and she communicated frequently with the farm's owner. Here's the full testimony offered by Pennock on Jan. 29, 2024.
The fact that they took care of a horse better than their own kid is trully sad 😔
White people love animals more thAn people
That is what the prosecution wants to make you think. Don´t be so tunnel visioned. Have more critical thinking. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. If these parents do deserve to go to jail for doing nothing, maybe there is something to put you in jail for too.
HELLO. He was madly begging mommy to come home and she spent all her time and money on the horses WHILE denying him attention and MEDICAL care. IT MATTERS hideous narcissists.
😢😢
Don't forget time leaving work to engage in her extra marital affairs, but couldn't be bothered to care for her child in clear crisis! Ethan knew she didn't care & wouldn't get help! Especially if it shone a light on her lack of parenting!
If she hadn't been a neglectful absent parent, Ethan wouldn't have been facing the issues he was!😢
Reminds me of Leslie ... sad. Children need loving parenting
Ethan’s mother, Jennifer , was also having an affair!! Sad, that she only cared for herself and not her son Ethan or her husband! 😡😡
I’ve read a lot of comments here that disrespect Kira, but I think she’s great - she not only saved the two horses who really had nowhere else to go & who Jennifer was trying to sell off asap with no thought for their future well-being, but also tried to make sure that the dog & cat were looked after - even offering to take them in, herself. Kira obviously really loves animals - good for her!
She's a awful human being and hopefully her clients leave! For the money she charged they could have gone anywhere!!
@@junebuchholtz287
$400 a month included feed.
So it wasn't too much, depending on the quality of hay.
Also covered feeding, watering & cleaning the stall daily.
@@junebuchholtz287tell me you know nothing about horses without actually saying it.......that is the going rate (if not more in my area)
@@junebuchholtz287you’ve gotta be joking. Here in California, in Los Angeles area, some barns charge upwards of 500 per month. Not including supplements, blanketing, turn-out, or other care. Then the vet bills and farrier are a whole other matter. And pasture is far more valuable here because it’s next to impossible to find.
@@junebuchholtz287 You obviously don't understand the horse industry. $400 is bottom amount you would pay to board and have your horse cared for.
Amazing how bad kids can ruin lives. Don't people realize kids are a full time job? Don't have them if you can't make the committment.
It’s crazy what has been done to our community here. 😢
This kid is exactly why everyone needs to be on birth control.
His only friend who is starting to have some issues, depression,grades dropping etc his parents chose to get him help. This woman and her husband know their son is having mental issues and buy him a gun. Unbelievable
Wrong, they didn’t know he was having those type of issues & the court system found him to not have mental health issues as he was found competent, with no mental health issues & tried as an adult. A child or adult with mental health issues can’t stand trial. Not one test or psychiatric evaluation showed he had any mental health issues and reported this to the courts. So, how were you able to diagnose him as being si mentally unstable and ill?? Just asking as if you know anything of his trial, you would know this. It wasn’t able to be brought up in this trial, nor that he was tried as an adult. Apparently his friend had problems for years & is what the pysch dr believes he was “faking or feigning”, if you know what that means.
@@dudemorris7769they did know. He voiced his mental issues, asked for help, and they knew about his alarm jig drawing yet still encouraged him to hide his gun better when going to school.
Hate to think it, but maybe they thought he would use the gun on himself due to depression. If my child showed half of these problems or asked for help, he'd be getting it asap.
@@dudemorris7769He definitely has mental health issues. He was, however, competent enough to stand trial.
I sure would like to hear a judge answer with clear, complete, succinct, and consice answers without the use of staccato stuttering verbiage in a volume and rhythm that would give the court confidence that she was in confident control of the courtroom in its entirety
This case needs a Judge who acts like a JUDGE! My goodness I cannot believe what I am watching!
Seems like all these comments with out profile pictures are new fake accounts created for the purpose of commenting on the trial
Odd
Yeah, what is this commentor taking about?
@@jayjoy331she’s a bit too relaxed as a judge. But, overall she’s ok. I’ve seen better judges.
@@FamLawJ.D. yeah, I agree..I noticed that too. I think she might be trying to keep the trail moving forward. It's not always a bad thing to have a relaxed judge. And I'm not just referring to time. The more the judge allows, the more the jury gets to hear. And hopefully be able to make a better informed decision about the charges.
@@hollynonya6991really? You think they are new fake accounts from who? For what purpose?
As much as we now know about the therapeutic benefit provided young people with various issues, I am at a loss as to why this mother would not have had her son coming out with her regularly to work with her horses. To me, she's just selfish and stupid.
Most definitely! My understanding was he didn't like it there! Maybe it was in how she treated him! In the company of another it probably would have been very therapeutic! But didn't change the initial root cause! Which I suspect is motherly & parental neglect!
Jennifer was also busy having an affair!! No regard for Ethan but herself!! A very selfish woman!! 😡😡
You might know something about therapeutics but you obviously don't know teenagers. Generally, the last place they want to be is with their parents, horses or no.
@@govindagovindaji4662I was going to say that people assume
He wanted to hang there with Mom. He may not have wanted that at all.
@@glee_again2594 Mom doesn't sound like a person that anybody would want to hang out with. Angry narcissist.
She cared for two horses at great expense. She didn't provide clearly troubled child with mental health care. But did provide the child a deadly weapon and ammo. Too bad parents don't get training. Those horses were better parents. Shaking my head.
This POS jennifer and her whipped husband would've benefited if their kid had off'd himself with that firearm; they didn't want that kid, and would've milked sympathy (and prolly a boohoo gofundme for their profit), continue their lifestyle of booze, drugs, affairs. It's feasible that was their intention handing her oopsy baby teen a loaded weapon. Their plan backfired, as instead of sympathy and $ they anticipated from sonny's departure, he let loose on vulnerable defenseless people around him. There's a high threshold to hold parents responsible for their kid's violent crimes, but Jen &James are shining examples of meeting criteria as felonious criminals themselves.
sounds like my mother
Could not agree more, animals are easier, it was a little bit too much like hard work to parent.
Could not agree more, animals are easier, it was a little bit too much like hard work to parent.
The witness was truthful and honest. The witness actually provided assistance for the prosecution.
My opinion
I love horses and I never wanted kids. Guess what, I've had several horses and no kids. Why is it so complicated for people. If you don't want to be a parent, don't be a parent 🤪
I wonder if Jennifer ever had an abortion and that’s why she’s just a dry woman…..
Apparently Jennifer referred to Ethan as an "oops" baby, (unplanned), so likely she never intended having children either.
Finally someone that gets it. Kids are not for everyone and that's ok
Tbf that's just recently become decidedly more difficult in the US with the dismantling of women's reproductive rights. It'll be interesting to see if forcing people to have unwanted children will result in more diabolical situations like this.
If you don't wanna be a parent then adopt that child out. Don't neglect them after the fact. I love horses to but I love my stepdaughter more, and she's not biologically mine.. you don't just neglect the kid because it was a opps ....
Idk how this judge ended up as one. I don't feel she can decide confidently and with conviction in an authoritative manner what is for dinner.
A big part of the problem is the defense attorney doesn't know how to make proper objections, so the judge has to figure out what she even wants.
Would it be worse if she were the waitress or in your dinner party?
She could afford this anount on a horse but could not afford $44 on her son to have health insurance. Sorry sorry mother.
I’m sorry, but am I missing something? Almost immediately after the shooting, and believing her son to be the killer, she’s talking about buying their horses and telling her “what a great ride she had?” Just seems like that stuff would be the last thing I would be thinking about especially knowing that her son just slaughtered children in her community.
Mindblowing indeed! Also, did you see the interview with police right after the murders? She was on her phone scrolling 😵💫😵💫. I'm really trying to wrap my head around her behavior and motives.
Don't know what reaction is when in shock
She mentioned that, but ya know your gonna need money for a lawyer
That's just a fact
@@StellaFl I agree it looks cold and bizarre that the mom was looking at her phone during that interview, but do we ever get an idea of what she was looking at? She could have been scrolling through information on how to get an attorney, or what the costs associated for that, or even the news on the shooting to see what was happening. We don't know what she was looking at, do we?
She needed cash to run away and pay lawyers.
I believe she completely took advantage of the situation to get those horses for free. She mentioned it more than once, very early on. I just can't get on board with someone who's takeaway from this horrific situation is to come up with a plan how it can benefit her. That's absolutely what she has done.
Jennifer was not concerned about the math paper … she literally wrote “all is good” Also, this girl was 25 at the time, not a mother or an educator/ psychologist… she has no responsibility of assessing how “concerning” that paper was
An amoeba would know that paper is concerning. You don’t need to be a parent or a teacher or a shrink to know that.
@@FamLawJ.D. All a person needs is common sense and foresight!
The disturbing things I drew in my textbooks as a kid would have gotten me in a padded cell, if drawings had any merit. I’ve never had a violent experience on my life, I’m 40 now. But go off with your witch hunt. I’ll just watch the pitchfork crew…
@@chelsey4188Ah yes, but people here are not talking about you.
@@chelsey4188i'm glad you were able to use drawings as an outlet for your darker thoughts! it's a really good therapeutic tool and it can actually be developmentally appropriate to explore more complex and adult thoughts in a safe and controlled environment in that way. a lot of teenagers examine things like death or sex by writing or drawing little fantasies in private.
the difference here is that ethan drew a picture of _his_ gun murdering a human person, on a class worksheet that he knew the teacher would collect within the period. ethan had been escalating his alarming behavior and self reporting his deteriorating mental state for months, and each time his parents just made fun of him and changed the subject. he even texted a friend saying he'd begged to go to a hospital and his parents said no and told him to suck it up. he was frightened and hallucinated when he was home alone. this drawing was one of the most pathetically transparent cries for help i've ever seen, and the idea of ignoring something like that is bizarre to me.
this was not developmentally appropriate spooky drawings twenty-five years ago, it was the _fulfilled threats_ of a school shooter three years ago. four people are dead.
The horse obsession runs in my family and i have firsthand seen child neglect more than once. Narcissism is a problem in the barn and show scenes.
My mom’s first husband and family were and are into this same type of stuff. She had both of my brothers with him one was all about it and the other was not. He gave up his rights to the one who didn’t care for it. So crazy to me. 😳
So why do those people have children? Why don't they just stick to horses?
@@KatrinaDancer Totally agree, but they aren't that self-aware.
@@KatrinaDancer smart. I just stuck to dogs, myself. I'm new to the case --- do they have other children as well?
Not at our place, nor our horse owning friends! Maybe only city folk? Family/ people, especially the child variety come before animals! My uncle trained & ran race horses for years! Just clean fun!
10:10 this attorney is so weird. You don’t need to ask permission or give a heads up that you “need to make an objection”, you just say “objection”. 🤔🤣🤣🤣
There's also no sidebars!
If the parents had put as much time, energy and money into Ethan as there did their hobbies (horses and guns) were probably wouldn’t be here right now.
that judge does not sound too bright
Like the Rittenhouse judge.
@@MaryRoseLaughingyou got it! we can see she wants to help the defendant and her horrible lawyer.
Someone graduated at the bottom of her judge school, right? Bet it was her.
While I do believe the shooter needs to be right where he is. I think his parents need to be in prison as well. They knew about this before it happened and did nothing
Are you implying that they knew he was going to the school to kill students or anyone?
@@Willow_508_ They put the gun in his hand and they were also made aware by his counselor that their son needed help. Yet, once again chose to do nothing
@Willow_508_ they were charged as they knew, or should have known, there was a substantial risk of him taking and using that firearm, and facilitated his access / neglected to mitigate the risk. They didn't have to foresee the result to be guilty of the crime with which they're charged. If you provide alcohol to an impaired person and allow them to drive, you could be charged with and convicted of involuntary manslaughter if they kill someone as a drunk driver.
@@Willow_508_Don't you know that they're all experts that know what goes on in other people's homes?
They created it in reality! Extreme emotional neglect has serious consequences! Mom was more concerned with getting her side squeeze & spending time with her horses!
Funny how she can remember all the damaging parts yet can't remember simple things....
The brain works in mysterious ways, dear. 😂
This girls only 25 yrs old living out her dream business having a successful farm boarding horses, then had to be dragged into this. I wish the best for her and that she can move on from this, to be able to continue and carry on with her business.
she sounds very together and impressive for her age
Well she did. Look up her farm & page. She’s struggling now since people feel she is a fraud.
@@dudemorris7769then maybe she should’ve chose her words a little more wisely when she answered questions in court. In court she seemed like a backstabbing friend.
@@neva3504 She didn't know at first how serious it was, imo. She's only 25 y/o. She eventually had to consider everyone else at that farm, including the students and her entire business. She didn't need any of this to be involved in her life, let alone a successful business. Wrong to judge her like that. Who wants a friend like Jennifer Crumbley anyways? Jennifer would of ditched/back stabbed her in a heart beat if the tables were turned, just like she did to her own son.
@@dudemorris7769that’s sad to hear, her rates sound low. What did they want her to do, commit perjury?
So, this judge is allowing a horse trainer to speculate on the relationship between mother and child, is absurdly irrelevant - and this trainer has zero first hand knowledge.
Parents who let there children bully other children should also be on trial and pathetic teachers who just brush it off!
Is there proof the shooter was bullied? I haven't seen anything on it
Bullied by whom? His own mother eroded this kid by repeatedly showing she didn’t give a crap. Once his grandparents died, the poor child seemed to spiral. A pet dog also died. He didn’t have anyone on his side in that house. Even when he was chained to the bar in the interrogation room, he only asked his parents to “feed my cat”.
The mother definitely had every single warning sign and she still didn’t care.
Most of the time the kid who is the bully is being abused or neglected so yes if something happens bc of the bullying. I..e assault or harassment
Why are you blaming the teachers when they repeatedly asked for intervention?
Relevance? I don't believe anyone has come out calling Ethan a bully and the teachers and school counselor were the main ones warning of the red flags and asking to get this kid help
I think this girl is two faced. She tells JC she cares about them. But testified she never felt bad for her. She was trying to get her horses for nothing. What a user loser. Taking advantage of a bad situation.
Agree
Plus she changed her testimony here compared to what she said in the preliminary hearing. Liar liar.
This woman would throw anyone under the bus if it makes her look superior! So judgmental!
If I were Jennifer Crumbly I be pissed at my incompetent lawyer. This is just one example of “you get what you pay for”.
agreed. her lawyer is going up against an arsenal of lawyers and other professionals. this is not right
@@Estimator00I mean, she’s weird and not great in this trial, but she’s not inexperienced. She represented Larry Nassar at trial which was very high profile. Of course, she lost that trial too, but in both cases the verdict was correct.
If you Google her, her name Shannon Smith and she graduated in 2005 as well as has been listed as one of Michigan’s “Super Lawyers”
Now you understand the justice system-“you get what you pay for”-just one unfortunate aspect of the justice system. I’m not talking about guilt or innocence or anything else-but you do truly get what you pay for. Money matters.
One of the things I found odd was that even though her horse was not well per the vet, she still wanted to take her riding lessons because the vet said the horse could benefit from some physical exercise. I’m not sure a riding lesson is what the vet meant. The reason I thought this was strange is that it shows a lack of concern for the horse just like there’s a lack of concern about anyone and everyone when it comes to this woman. Total narcissist. Too bad that’s not a crime.
Edema in the legs improves with circulation. Maybe you should try and leave the thinking to those people who know how. Riding the horse is exactly what the vet meant. I was an equine vet assistant. If the horse needed to be put on stall rest, he would have ordered it. The horse had mud fever- he didn’t have a case of laminitis 😒…
You’re diagnosing Narcissism? Where did you get your medical license? Riding a horse the vet said could benefit from exercise seems like a perfectly rational thing to do,
Who would board a horse with this lady EVER again? “I was trying to get more info for law enforcement “. “I think she might have stolen things to get money for a lawyer”. This about someone who has been nice to you for years and spent tens of thousands at you facility. WTF
Don't forget the dig about how the woman was drunk when she bought the horse.
Jennifer sent that test with the gun drawing to like everyone she talked to. Just weird how she would send something like that her horse boarding owner. They’re not even close friends…
Right!? Like she was trying to get someone on her side and was not getting anywhere else. As the boarder I'd be so unresponsive like don't drag me in lady!
@@sandfleababe8908 yeah to me it’s pretty weird…I wouldn’t show my boss either - even to justify the time off.
@@sandfleababe8908 right. she wanted sympathy!
A narcissist craving attention. They’ll use their own kids to make others have sympathy for them. It’s bizarre.
And her boss...almost like she was proud of it!
Well this Judge is certainly no Clifton Newman (Murdaugh trial judge). She’s worse than Lance Ito. Absolutely no control over her courtroom. I’ve never seen a judge this unsure and lackadaisical.
The stench from the bench is making me clench
She reminds of how I would be if I were a judge… which is why I am not. 😂
@@ericaexplainsitall2135 😂
SHE also armed and trained him to kill so there’s THAT. If you are identifying with Poor mom get help now.
I think if the parents in this case are held responsible then so should the parents in the other school shootings.
The other parents did not purchase their child the gun that was used. These two did...And were also aware of his mental state.
not only school shootings but many other crimes like Dawn Woods and Darrell Brooks. She knew what he had done in the past and what he was capable of doing with her car and still she bailed him out and the next day over 70 people were run over with the car she provided. We accuse her of neglect but ignore the thousands and thousands of other parents whose children commit violent acts such as gang members. These children suffer much more severe neglect from birth yet we don't go after these parents when their kids commit murder. I don't agree with their parenting but where do we begin and end trying parents for crimes their children commit.
@@Estimator00 I don't know..but we have to start somewhere. Violent crime by minors is out of control and getting worse.
If you can afford horses you can pay for mental health for your child.
If you can afford guns you can afford mental health for your child. Priorities!!!!
It depends on the circumstances, and the knowledge they had at THAT time. And also if they were responsible parents. SUPPLYING GUNS OR NOT TO UNERAGED CHILDREN OR GUNS NOT SAFELY STORED!!
i get trying to paint a picture for the jury but wtf do half of the questions the prosecutor asked have anything to do with this case
Maybe get an attorney who isn’t so ignorant about horses.
She's asking all these questions that seemed irrelevant so later there can be connections made but also to prove that she did spend time with the horses more than her son. It proves that she had the time and she chose the horses. It also shows the money and detail that she put into investing in the horses and again not her son. It also proves that this is a consistent pattern.
What is snake in the grass? She’s trying to get Jennifer‘s horses free. If her business doesn’t go all the way down into the drain, then I question people more than I already do.
A $5000 horse is literally nothing - would pay for less than 10 lawyer hours. They cost so much to keep - it wouldnt be worth it to her
Off the track thoroughbreds with a history of lameness aren’t in short supply. But
I recommed both parties to view carefully Grizzly True Crime site and Anthony Burgos vs state trial to learn how to prep a proper trial and way to show the evidence to jury. This is so unprofessional and they had over 2y time to prep. Shame!
Dear defence attorney. It’s two different things to be weird and a mass shooter. Many kids are weird but doesn’t kill.
This trial is definitely not conducted like the Adelson trial in Florida, this judge has no control
That lawyer needs to go back to law school. She’s a joke! Complete waste of time. Not just w/this witness, but with the whole trial. Sheesh!!
$200k for this lawyer?!
They need a refund? This lawyer seems like this is her first case.
I’m sure for all 3 to have attorneys. If that lawyer cost that much money I would represent myself.
It's ridiculous the way she "threw" in there, " and she was drunk." What a joke. I would never board a horse with this lady who obviously judges your every move and will use it against you to make you look bad. This boarder never turned the $$ down saying you know you seem like you may need this for your family so I will give you free horse rent for this month. This shite allowed in this trial is beyond. Every parent could have their lives ripped apart and feel like the worst parent in the world if this kind of crap is used against you. The mom's lawyer sucks too. She just let's them go and go without objecting. Not that objecting would help because this Judge apparently allows any and all things in. 🙄
It's too bad a veteran attorney didn't take this case pro bono.
Damn, I've been thinking of getting a horse and having it boarded, but had never taken into consideration all the other cost beside just the boarding! There goes that thought😢 I wish these parents had given their son at least half the attention and care they gave to their horses😢
Horses are “ bankruptcy starter kits”! I have seen people lose everything trying to keep them boarded and healthy.
Jennifer should have saved her $200K on that lawyer!? A public defender had to have been better…
What in the world is going on? Jennifer Crumley’s lawyer Unexperienced lawyer, I have ever seen. How could the judge even allow this to be OK when they’re charging the mother with manslaughter. So many wanna criticize her for going horseback riding and not taking her son. Line up teenage kids and tell me how many of them want to be with their parents? I’m not saying she’s the best of mom because she definitely isn’t. But it doesn’t mean she needs to go to prison for life because she enjoyed a few hours a few days a week to herself.
Note for Kira: when you testify against one of your clients that pay you monthly, you should keep your personal feelings out of it. you’re a little extra add-ons to your answers is like a little dagger going into Jennifer and I have another woman could see you’re a little personal feelings towards her isn’t a positive. I know I wouldn’t bring my horse to you.
I agee the defense lawyer is a rookie.
This witness made me feel very sympathetic to Jennifer. How two-faced. If her client or prospective clients see this, I think it might very well hurt her business.
I fully disagree, and I don’t blame the stable owner for this. The parents could’ve and should’ve prevented this.
This is a very unusual situation. Taking the oath is supposed to mean telling the truth. But yeah I get your point.
This witness is very unlikable…major backstabber vibes 😬
You all are delusional if you think Kira Pennock had any malicious intentions! She did right by those animals and by the contract they all were bound by. Ethan and his parents are in the wrong here, you’re attacking Kira who is completely innocent! Quit acting like you’re Sherlock Holmes before you get yourself sued for defamation. 🙄
She definitely garnered sympathy for Jennifer. What a jerk?
This business owner is trying to get it at cost minus all the training. Taking advantage of their situations.
Hope her clients see this
this kirra girl 'cares' about them but testifies against them!!? where is this jury's head?? are you guys dense?
Unresponsive indeed. What a nasty witness.
Yep. Very immature
You can see how this is perfect storm. These parents that are too busy to pay attention to the kid. This lady is meeting her lover in the mornings, going to work for the day and spending weekends and evenings with horses.
She testified that she thought Jennifer wasn't concerned, but that she herself had been concerned.. I think the defense attorney missed the distinction.
Yes for sure!
When your own client is guilty as hell, make everyone else look sketchy.
She should still have a competent attorney. Guilty or innocent, every American should.
@@coleenfottrell4102 You are right, Unfortunately every single person charged in America has the right to legal counsel, you don’t even need to be American. I have never seen such an atrocious job at a legal counsel than this defense attorney is giving though. I’ve also never seen an attorney whine about not being able to see an exhibit yet that was given to her 2 years ago because she claims the case has “mountains of paperwork” and she didn’t have time to go through it.
Judge is pretty atrocious as well. No control or authority over her courtroom and she acts like she doesn’t know how to rule during objections so she just asks the witness questions herself to clarify 😂
😂🎉🎉@@coleenfottrell4102
What was the defense lawyer's first strategy here...getting paid up front???
@@holyshiznits888Is this the Judge's first trial to oversee?
This will go down in history. It’s just so sad! On all sides!!!
This witness really tried to milk a tragic situation to gain horses and tack ... this judge is so lame
Please...what exactly is tack?
The horse Billy was unsound. I personally would not pay $5k for a horse with a history of lameness issues because they'll run up way more than that in vet bills. The fact that no price was put on the other horse makes me think he was old and already retired. I highly doubt Kira profited from this situation.
@@dianeaustin2414bridal, saddle, Etc
A lack of critical thinking explains the recant of the farm owner’s testimony.
So your client and acquaintance is going through the most horrendous trauma of her life and your first reaction is to haggle on the price of her horses and then suggesting that she might sign them over to you? I don’t particularly like Jennifer Crumbley but there is something very wrong with this woman as well.
Agree. I hate Jennifer and since Ethan’s hearings have wanted her in prison BUT I always thought this was woman was shady. First by not just admitting you were friends ?? Like of course you were!? Then by saying she was trying to help the authorities so that’s why she was still talking to her ?
Also to say she thought they were going to steal if they came to the barn!? No, it’s because you didn’t want wackos showing up there and trying to do Something to their horses, I mean be honest. Jesus
@@KerryLama43 exactly, Kira runs a business and like she testified when people are in desperate situations like the Crumbley's were in people do desperate things like steal or they could have hidden out on her large horse property. Kira is a smart young lady, trying to be empathetic with JC but setting good boundries to protect herself, her other clients and her business.
TOTALLY DISAGREE She is an animal lover she even offered to rehome her pets. She’s 27 years old. Maybe she doesn’t have 10k in stapled piles of cash in her safe. Crumbleys are lucky she actually cared about their horses and them.
What do you expect she runs a horse farm! Animals are just commodities to her. If she had any care for the welfare of the horses she would have a horse rescue or sanctuary and not be riding them but let them be horses! Instead it’s all about her wallet.
You all are delusional if you think Kira Pennock had any malicious intentions! She did right by those animals and by the contract they all were bound by. Ethan and his parents are in the wrong here, you’re attacking Kira who is completely innocent! Quit acting like you’re Sherlock Holmes before you get yourself sued for defamation. 🙄
Being a horse owner, this woman would scare me, as a barn owner, that would be caring for one of my horses.
She should be able to speak clearly and firmly about what she does for the horses as the barn owner and about the farrier and Vet care. She knew she would be testifying and should have the correct dates known beforehand. She's too fishy about her knowledge and what she does.
when i saw Jennifer's text saying 'i'm gonna get drunk and ride my horse'.... i cringed and winced. says a lot about the culture at the "farm"
She could know a ton about horses, just because she can't express herself like some others, doesn't mean she is incompetent. It is hard to explain to non horse people some things about horses.
The specific details are important for the horse, but not as important in this legal case. They are just establishing the fact that Jennifer was super concerned about the health of her horses, made sure they saw the vet, made sure other people applied the medication if she wasn't there, etc. - but laughed at her son when he asked to see someone about his hallucinations.
She cared about her horses, much more than she cared about her own child
My thoughts exactly!!!
Just Kira whole demeanor is OFF. Come on… did you not check your books of when Jennifer Bought Billy.
Who the hell cares if Jennifer drank or not!!! It’s NOT against the law. I mean really!!! This trail is whacked!!! Unfortunately the son made a horrible choice!! He should be the ONLY one trial Damn!!!! By the way HOW is Billy today?
@@melaniehassler2405you probably blame Trump when it rains!🤡
After listening to this witness, she took advantage of a situation. She could have paid for the horses, but she chose not to & take them
This horse boarder used the tragic events as an opportunity to snatch the two horses from her without having to pay for them. A swindler.
What ?! She referred her to a different woman who might be willing to pay $8,000 !
@@peterbaruxis2511 but later on when they got incarcerated - the horse boarder willfully kept boarding both horses knowing the owner was gonna end up falling behind in boarding payments and she could just keep the animals at no extra cost. A tactic commonly used in pet boarding and storage units too when clients fall into hard times.
and she mentions signing them over very early on.@@DEUTSCHLAND.007
So you think that she, as the barn owner, had an obligation to pay the costs of the horses and their vets bills when they weren't hers? Usually what happens in situations where owners can't afford or care for the horses any longer is that unsound horses like Billy get sent to auctions, where they might wind up with a kill buyer. The horses and Mrs. Crumbly were lucky someone was willing to take them; they weren't sound horses and horses like that are money pits. I bought an ex-racehorse myself and had over $10k in vet bills within the first 6 months.
What the hell was she supposed to do? Let them starve and die? This woman was in jail, she asked her to care for them because she not longer could. What a weird thing to say. I'm sure she'd rather have children be alive than to have two of Jennifer Crumbly's horses@@DEUTSCHLAND.007
I could be wrong,buf it seems to me Miss Kira stalled Jennifer long enough to get the horses for boarding,instead of the $5800 for everything...
But it screams out the type of person she is. To act like she cared then stole her horse? I don't believe anything she says. If she has friends they need to be worried.
JC was arrested a few days later. Payments couldn’t be made to the barn so the contract allows her to have the horses as her own.
My thoughts exactly.
I agree. When I heard that, I thought for sure she played Jennifer for those horses for free. She could have connected with a relative to pay out. She had the farrier out and claiming them as her own before even signing the paperwork.
@@sandysand3218 she didn't steal those horses, that's what JC paid for one of them $5000 what is wrong with you people going after a young business woman instead of pointing the finger at the real criminals Jennifer and James Crumbley
damn this girl- she is saying all the things that this generation would say- she don't care about the mom? she says shows compassion with texts and then says she doesn't care?? she got paid.
Horse girls are something else...one spent so much time with her horses that she neglected and ignored her own child, and this one's first thought after hearing about fellow horse girl's tragedy was how to turn it into a deal for herself to get more horses. s m h.
not so, JC is the criminal
@@deborah3912 I didn't say she wasn't Deborah. Reading comprehension.
I totally agree with you. I could not believe the board barn woman was so obvious in her desire to have the horses, or Billy anyway. Like, wth is wrong with you?
Not so, my guess owning horses the barn owner really liked the owner and the horses. She wouldn’t have wanted the horses to get into someone’s hands that may not have taken good care of them. Why would anyone make accusations about someone who had nothing to do with this.
The horse girl was worried about the long-term well being of the horse
I don't believe a word out the mouth of this woman!!!as soon as she said she was 27😂😂 I know I'm not the only one thinking she meant 37!!
Horse owner trying to get horses and tack by default. Mother trying to gather funds to go on the run and lay low. Basically avoid arrest. Everyone cheating. Does anyone have character in this town?
First she knew nothing bout the kid now she saying all kinda stuff
He is a child … his parent bought him a gun for Xmas … his parents are the one at fault here , how can u blame a kid for making the wrong decisions when he had no guidance or proper adult supervision from his own mum & dad .. he was a trouble kid with a lot of issues
They allowed him to go on the dark web and watch tortures and killings. Creepy
AND the parents knew he was having hallucinations ! I think the parents wanted the kid to use it on himself !!
That is a hard 27
Egregious neglect. If she'd cared enough for her son as her horses & affair, maybe this tragedy would have been avoided.
The farm owner crawls lower than a snake!!!
30:00 - FYI the drawing on the math homework included handwritten things such as:
"The thoughts won't stop help me," "Blood Everywhere," "Video Game this is," "Harmless Act," "OHS rocks," "I love my life so much!," "My life is useless." From this doodling of guns, bullets, dead person, and word-salad I cannot tell what exactly is wrong but surely we might feel concerned to see all of it on 2 pages. But nothing was done. And no what. Dang.
When she saw the drawing, she didn't predict a shooting, because she didn't know the kid had a gun, had been looking up ammo at school etc. etc.
This is what I kept thinking, too. The defense was saying that since the horse girl didn’t predict a shooting then how could the mother possibly predict a shooting? Well, the mother has a lot more information and bought the shooter a gun.
@@bilbus3 💯 agree.
When news of the shooting broke, other parents were terrified that their kids were injured, or worse.
However, *both* Crumbleys assumed their son was the shooter! That indicates, they knew their weapons & ammo were not secure & that his mental health issues made him a likely suspect.
Why are they battling out all of these speaking objections in front of the jury instead of at the bench?
Speaking objections concerning testimony have to be argued on the spot in front of the jury. The Judge drew the line Friday afternoon at letting Defense attorney argue admissibility of evidence in front of the Jury. Two different things.
because thats what they do.... lmao.
I think solely blaming a mother for missing signs of her teenage son's mental health struggles ignores the real issue: her son's easy access to firearms. No other factor could have lessened the likelihood that this situation would have occurred, and more time might have passed where he exhibited symptoms likely to be harder to ignore if his illness had been fully recognized. Perhaps the school might have taken a different approach had they known he had access to a gun. But why wouldn't the school naturally assume he did and directly ask that question. It's amazing how neither the school nor the parent thinks of discussing his ability to access a firearm when he is drawing guns and bullets and expressing suicidal thoughts. None of these people, the parents nor the school counselor are experts in diagnosing or dealing with this situation. Either way, It is unfair to use this case to show this as solely negligence in a parent's thinking or caretaking for this child when there is little history to support that this child would perpetrate this tragedy. So many parents would have missed this.
Kira is a rotten person!!
This horse farm girl is not at all genuine! She is tripping all over herself because now all her business to her farm is hearing out loud that she was being supportive to these people. These messages from her to them does not sound like she is just fishing for info! SO...either way this girl was disingenuous to the crumbleys and or to her barn customers.Its my opinion u cant trust her testimony. Her sentences only flow when she is reading. When she has to speak to answer question she cant hardly get it out because she is thinking so damn hard not to say something wrong. Oh look how she took advantage of the situation and scored horses and tack! I don't even know this chick but she is dirty wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her!
Also if she has a horse business she needs to start fixing problems instead of using band aids. Instead of putting bell boots on a horse that is having over reach maybe she should consider a farrier offering corrective services and chiro. And she has a horse with mud fever but apparently continuing to throw it back out there.No wonder the meds weren't working.
End: So, let me get this straight: this witness was 'being kind' and 'befriending her' in order to get information for law enforcement~? Did they ask her to do that~? Sounds like it backfired. Little spy-lady.
Hope all her clients leave!! This is a awful person
This girl is shady.
You’re shady and may be projecting!
This is just a whole lot of speculation by a snake-who by the way had no problem saying “ just sign the horses over to me” so she’d then own them outright-for nothing. I would caution ANYONE from boarding their horses with her.
You all are delusional if you think Kira Pennock had any malicious intentions! She did right by those animals and by the contract they all were bound by. Ethan and his parents are in the wrong here, you’re attacking Kira who is completely innocent! Quit acting like you’re Sherlock Holmes before you get yourself sued for defamation. 🙄
@@kriss.3762 Stop drunk copy pasting. It's obnoxious and we're all onto you Kira's Mom!
Uhmm doesn't it cost money to take care of someone else's horse? Just wondering.
@@aquariusrizing No - You’re all obnoxious for making false accusations. 🙄 Who the heck said anything about Kira’s mother? You’re really reaching.
@@hihatjas9477 Nope not when they produce income like lessons
So mom has a life outside of being mom and she is responsible for her son going psycho? I get some parents deserve tried wen they are negligent but this is not the mom. Wasting time.
I don't believe her at all. She is lying about not caring about Jennifer. She is shady as f***
why should she care about Jennifer? Why is she obligated to care about a grown woman, she's 27yo stable young business owner, we can't say that about the Crumbley's
@@deborah3912 I'm not saying she should CARE. I don't think she cares now at all. You are missing my point. I said, she is laying about caring then, when she was texting back and forth.
I agree with you. If you watch her at the preliminary hearing a year She has a totally different tune now.. It's like she went from being her friend to now throwing her under the bus seems very obvious to me
@@kiloshakee81 you obviously have no point, I'm not missing anything.
It doesn't make a difference whether she cared about Jennifer or not, but it is obvious that in her text to Jennifer, she came across as if she cared and was concerned about her, but for whatever reason, she is definitely throwing Jennifer under the bus in this video.
She's a liar
Her son seems to have been nothing more than an inconvenience to her; you wonder why she had him in the first place.
This almost makes me sorry for him.
Nobody in this courtroom is competent. Not the Judge, not the prosecution, not the defense. Nobody is prepared. The judge is acting like this is a PTA meeting, not a trial.
Though I think the charges brought, had to be brought, I shudder to think that the future of this necessary legal strategy rests on this trial.
I dont trust this lady I watched her first one
An oopsie baby???? As a mother I am disgusted that came out of another womans mouth
There are millions of accidental babies
Lol. It’s fact tho. And real life. The majority are “Oopsie” babies.
This is such nonsense. Proves nothing. She’s a parent and made a mistake. I wouldn’t vote guilty in this case. Not yet.
Faileed as mother her horses and love life more importan. t crumbly failed that child
did she ask if she was 'drunk' when she sold the horse via text?? bc she said she was 'drunk' when Jen was talking about buying the horse-
Why does defense object to prosecution for leading when that’s practically all she does? Also the witness seemed to only really be concerned about what she could acquire for herself during the defendant’s worst moment of her life. Her wheels really started turning, i.e. free horses and tack.
So far, the defense is only doing cross examination so she can ask leading questions. Between the shady witness, the lousy defense, and the sleeping judge, this trial is ridiculous.
I can’t believe the defense lawyer is insinuating blame on her for not notifying the police about Ethan’s drawing Jen sent her; insinuating blame on her for not pushing Jen to get psychological help for her child (which horse farm lady never met). Uh….isn’t that the job of the parent who knows and lives with the child?
You're confused. The point the defense attorney made, quite well actually, is that even an objective Outsider didn't see the danger.
Are the prosecutors, the defense attorneys, and the judge all conducting this trial as a job interview? I don’t believe any of these role players have ever even visited a courtroom. Regardless of the verdict in this case, whether it’s not guilty or guilty, it should be retried, not based on poor legal council and an incompetent judge overseeing this trial, but based on their being absolutely no legal counsel or judge. Just an unbiased view from watching the worst trial performance of all times.
Jennifer doesn’t bother to thank Kira once in these texts, despite her going out of her way to be helpful & tending to her two horses for her.
She did thank her. Rewind.
It was proven she lied under oath. So will she be charged with perjury?
When was that proven? What did she lie about? I’m Totally new to her testimony
She did lie from previous testimony! I was thinking how obvious it was. It's almost as if the prosecution directed her as what to say in response beforehand.
liars are never prosecuted for purgury.
@@Estimator00 perjury
I think the judge doesn’t know what is going on 🤣🤣 She looks so confuse 😀
I shudder to think of the precedent this case might create…just think of what it will do to single moms in inner cities, struggling to keep their sons out of trouble…
I know a few single moms who raised their kids ten times better than some in a two parent home. The ones I know have strong work ethics and are doing very well.
This case is unique. If a parent had a troubled child and they did everything to make sure he had access to mental health, did not purchase a gun for a clearly troubled child, and loved their child enough to spend more time with them instead of their horses, I doubt they would be charged.
Me too🙏❣️. However, this is a very unique case, as said, before.
If they don’t provide them with access to an unsecured fire arm and ammo then they won’t be in this situation.
It makes their kids more responsible... This is nothing new for military families cause military kids know what they do has to be answered by their parents
AND...instead of just putting bell boots on a horse that is over reaching and pulling shoes maybe she should contact a farrier about corrective services and a chiro instead of a band aid. no wonder the other horse didn't heal up and had to get a different med when she was putting the horses back out in a mud lot! Oh and she was going to buy the horses but then decided she would sit on them then just take them for free for nonpayment. WOW! Im not taking up for the Crumbly here but this horse farm lady is a real piece of work!
this lady knows she has pets at home?? she's more of a friend then she says.
Friends like her I wouldn’t want any enemies
This is ridiculous. How does owning a horse have anything to do with those students? Or the son? People are allowed to have pets, hobbies and ect even though they have a child. Is this America? Was this horse used to commit a crime, no. Was this horse stolen,no. Did the son take the horse to the school, no. Not relevant, violation of rights.
Where t f did this pseudo judge come from.
Terrible witness
Don’t usual attorneys approach the bench when arguing objections? What kind of courtroom is this????? What kind of judge is this? It’s the strangest courtroom proceeding I think I have ever seen.
I do the exact same job as this lady but in the UK and to summarise in a way I don’t think the prosecution really fully got - they *never* had to be there. Literally this morning I read a post in a group I’m in with peers with people discussing how nuts it is so many of their clients pay on time every month and barely go and see their horses. Paying Kira and the vet etc was their responsibility, everything else necessary for the horses welfare she was delegating to Kira. Do not conflate them owning horses with how hard work it is actually caring for them. This kind of boarding is just like storing your expensive (accident prone) car somewhere so you can go and drive it in your free time.
God she's an awful witness and barely literate!